JonBenet Ramsey

[ghoulina]

Yup, it was in the GJ testimony. 

And, I agree, the boot isn't the be-all-end-all of the case. The reason for pointing out that it belonged to a family member is because the prosecution was trying to say that print proved there had to have been a stranger in the house that night. But it didn't. Even if it WASN'T from Burke's boot (which it most likely was), there was no way of knowing WHEN the print was left. So even if it was from someone outside the family, it could have been left long before. In fact, I do not think Burke was wearing his boots that night. I think it just shows that it wasn't from some random stranger, stumbling around their basement in the night.

[doodlebug]

2 hours ago, ghoulina said:

Yup, it was in the GJ testimony. 

And, I agree, the boot isn't the be-all-end-all of the case. The reason for pointing out that it belonged to a family member is because the prosecution was trying to say that print proved there had to have been a stranger in the house that night. But it didn't. Even if it WASN'T from Burke's boot (which it most likely was), there was no way of knowing WHEN the print was left. So even if it was from someone outside the family, it could have been left long before. In fact, I do not think Burke was wearing his boots that night. I think it just shows that it wasn't from some random stranger, stumbling around their basement in the night.

I agree, the significance of the boot is that it isn't the 'smoking gun' proving that there had to have been an intruder in the house.  Burke and his best friend both owned boots of that make and it could've been their boot prints, left at some random time in the past, that were found. 

[jameson245]

Reading the entire transcript of the Atlanta interview where the Ramseys faced 7 from Boulder, you can see where Lin Wood repeatedly called out the 7 for making comments about evidence and then being unable to show they were telling the truth.    Later we knew from Haney himself that he had lied to Patsy about there being positive evidence - fibers evidence as I recall - pointing to John as the killer.  A perfectly legal means to push buttons in an interrogation, but not to be confused with facts and evidence. 

There is a difference between high-tech being really cool and the brand Hi-Tec.  With the grand jury testimony still under wraps, we don't know what Fleet and his son or Burke said about that footwear. 

The mold was pretty thick and I am surprised at how few prints are there.  There were none from LHP and her group getting out the Christmas trees.  I believe the prints were fresh - and so did the police or they would not have taken McElroy's boots for comparison.

[ari333]

IMO Burke did it. Patsy wrote the note to try to cover

That is all

[bubbls]

Here's my theory: BDI. The Ramsey's found out he couldn't be held accountable. A meeting was held with the DA and other bigwigs where the Ramsey's conveyed it was Burke. Nobody wanted to ruin Burke's or the Ramsey's reputation, but by then the story had blown up into a national obsession so they couldn't just quietly let it fade. There was nothing to do but proceed with the fake investigation. Whether it was political/financial influence or pity for the parents or both, the DA had no intention of pursuing any charges against John or Patsy. Yet the story would not go away, so you end up with all this weird behavior on the part of the DA and the Ramsey's. It's the only thing that makes sense to me. 

Edited March 12, 2017 by bubbls

[Christina]

@bubbls I have used all my likes for the day in the My 600lb Life forum, but I now consider your post as canon. I have believed Burke did while playing and the parents covered it up since almost day one when the parents became uncooperative almost immediately. I now know that they were tipped off by someone that they were the chief suspects and that is why they were uncooperative, and I agree with that tact generally, but when John said that they needed to see how the crazy man from Thailand played out, I again decided that he knew what really happened and knew it wasn't Karr. It could have been Patsy, but I thought the cover-up made more sense if it was Burke. He may not realize he caused her death but his deposition in his lawsuit should be good reading and clarify things.

[ghoulina]

Yea, I just don't see that obvious (to me) cover-up coming into play if the killer was anyone but Burke. I just couldn't reconcile the parents going to the lengths they did to cover for each other, but I could definitely see them protecting Burke. 

[ari333]

I agree that BDI.

I think he was very disturbed andprobably still is. Patsy may have unwittingly contributed to this in that she showered JB with attention and likely ignored BR - or he may have perceived it that way.

[ghoulina]

Yes, I think favoritism/jealousy may very well have factored in. He had already hit her with an object before (the golf club); and then there was the feces smearing in her room. He had some issues in general, but specifically with his sister. 

[AZChristian]

50 minutes ago, ari333 said:

I agree that BDI.

I think he was very disturbed andprobably still is. Patsy may have unwittingly contributed to this in that she showered JB with attention and likely ignored BR - or he may have perceived it that way.

There was a show on the other night that included the clip of Patsy insisting the pageants were "just a couple of Sunday afternoons."  Anyone who has ever watched one episode of Toddlers & Tiaras know how much time and MONEY go into competing in those pageants, and JB's outfits were the most expensive looking I've ever seen.

[ari333]

2 hours ago, AZChristian said:

There was a show on the other night that included the clip of Patsy insisting the pageants were "just a couple of Sunday afternoons."  Anyone who has ever watched one episode of Toddlers & Tiaras know how much time and MONEY go into competing in those pageants, and JB's outfits were the most expensive looking I've ever seen.

Oh good lord. "Just a couple of Sunday afternoons" may have been literally the actual pageant time. But that is not the real time. There is huge prep time imo. Talent, rehearsals, costumes, fittings, shopping, practicing the walk and good grief IDK what else. It was all consuming IMO.  24/7 would not surprise me.

[Wings]

I stopped by to see if there was any new theory.  I have always thought Burke did it and his interview with Dr Phil only served to affirm that.  It will never come out. 

Edited March 21, 2017 by wings707

[ari333]

42 minutes ago, wings707 said:

I stopped by to see if there was any new theory.  I have always thought Brook did it and his interview with Dr Phil only served to affirm that.  It will never come out. 

I am team BDI and he really lucked out in that he was 9 yrs and 11 months old when 10 was the cutoff age for charging a child. It is sad all the way around. But JB deserves justice. I doubt she'll get it.

[Wings]

What is BDI?  Brook did it?

[ari333]

4 minutes ago, wings707 said:

What is BDI?  Brook did it?

Burke (the son/brother) did it.

[Wings]

1 hour ago, ari333 said:

Burke (the son/brother) did it.

Yes, Burke!  Thanks. Not Brook.

[MrSmith]

On 3/16/2017 at 5:46 PM, wings707 said:

I stopped by to see if there was any new theory.  I have always thought Brook did it and his interview with Dr Phil only served to affirm that.  It will never come out. 

This saddens me. He's an awkward person because his entire life got permanently disrupted when he was 9 years old. How awkward would it be for people to still be talking about something that happened to you 20 or 25 years later? And wanting to interview you about it? Would you look and feel uncomfortable trying to keep calm when you're being asked and accused (for the twenty millionth time) of knowing something or having done something or somehow being involved in your little sister's murder? How would you adjust if the media were focused on you and your family relentlessly for 20 or 25 years? And then consider that the media and the public will be focused on you and your family until the day you're finally all dead and gone; couple that with the fact that he's only in his 30's right now and still has another 50 or 60 years of this bullshit to go. On top of all that, every time anyone talks about it or prints something in a paper or magazine (and you see it), you're basically forced to relive the whole damn thing again! I can't imagine he's gotten more than a few moments of respite from it since it happened. Nothing would ever have been "normal" again after Jon-Benet was murdered; the fact that everyone continues to focus on it, dissect it, and wants to talk to the surviving family about it just ensures that whatever "normal" might look like after your sister is murdered can never be achieved. Everyone needs some stasis and stability in their lives and I doubt he's had very much of that in the last 20+ years. I don't know how you can imagine a 9 year old would have the strength to strangle his sister to death. I have sympathy for him, especially since no one will ever allow this family whatever measure of peace they could otherwise achieve.

[Wings]

^^^ tail between legs as I slink off.   LOL.   You make good points @MrSmith.  Just something I have thought for awhile,  some disagree, some agree.  

[AZChristian]

Dear MrSmith (with whom I usually agree).

Burke is awkward.  No argument there.  I suspect from some of his mannerisms that he MAY be in the autism spectrum - Asperger's????  But even so, I'm fairly sure he has had the benefit of private schools, years of therapy, etc.  

But as I watched his interviews with professionals at the time of the murder, I can only say that I've never seen a child act the way he did.  If nothing but the one minute in which the interviewer was trying to get him to identify the bowl of grapefruit - and he was obviously NOT wanting to talk about it - it was obvious that the grapefruit was important.  And we all know that grapefruit had been eaten shortly before JB died.  WHY was Burke so determined to ignore it in the picture?  Perhaps because JB stole a piece of Burke's grapefruit, and he hauled off and hit her with a flashlight and knocked her out cold.

I don't think Burke did strangle her.  I think Patsy thought she was dead and was well into the cover-up because she knew that Burke had hit JB.  When Patsy realized that JB was still alive, Patsy strangled her with the garotte because having JB regain consciousness and name Burke as the attacker would have destroyed their world more than JB's tragic death.  

For me, the bottom line is that he - or someone who was giving wise counsel - should have declined the Dr. Phil interview.  The fact that he had a creepy grin the whole time was just eerie.  Surely after 25 years, someone has told him not to grin when talking about his dead sister.  And if he couldn't control that, he shouldn't be giving interviews.

[Wings]

I will add, Patsy writing a ransom note looms large in the case against Burke. 

[MrSmith]

@AZChristian Maybe he didn't want to look at the grapefruit because it was reminded him of his sister eating it? I don't know; it's a thought. That said, I must be missing something because I don't understand, if Burke hit Jon-Benet with a flashlight, why would they need to cover that up? I can't see that killing one child would be preferable. Anything short of death is temporary and can be recovered from.

Also, what about the suitcase that was positioned below the window in the basement? If I recall correctly, that suitcase didn't even match the luggage the Ramseys owned. On top of that, you can clearly see in the paint on the wall where someone's toe slid down the wall, which is a tactic used to brace and stabilize yourself until you can stand on the floor. Indicates to me that someone came in through that basement window, then put the suitcase there to exit through that window.

I guess, for me, I come down on the family's side in this because there are too many things that point to an intruder and because the police completely screwed up. And also because I just can't get my head around the idea that a parent would be both their child's killer and able to fake being distraught so convincingly. The only problem for me is the fact that ransom amount exactly matched what her father had just earned as a bonus.

[AZChristian]

1 minute ago, MrSmith said:

@AZChristian Maybe he didn't want to look at the grapefruit because it was reminded him of his sister eating it? I don't know; it's a thought. That said, I must be missing something because I don't understand, if Burke hit Jon-Benet with a flashlight, why would they need to cover that up? I can't see that killing one child would be preferable. Anything short of death is temporary and can be recovered from.

Also, what about the suitcase that was positioned below the window in the basement? If I recall correctly, that suitcase didn't even match the luggage the Ramseys owned. On top of that, you can clearly see in the paint on the wall where someone's toe slid down the wall, which is a tactic used to brace and stabilize yourself until you can stand on the floor. Indicates to me that someone came in through that basement window, then put the suitcase there to exit through that window.

I guess, for me, I come down on the family's side in this because there are too many things that point to an intruder and because the police completely screwed up. And also because I just can't get my head around the idea that a parent would be both their child's killer and able to fake being distraught so convincingly. The only problem for me is the fact that ransom amount exactly matched what her father had just earned as a bonus.

Patsy said that she would do ANYTHING to protect one of her children.  Once the injury (and erroneous belief that JB was dead) happened, there was only one child left to protect - Burke.  I think if she had realized that JB was still alive right away, she might have just called 911 for an ambulance, and a different scenario would have evolved.  But once she started the cover-up, and time passed while JB was bleeding into her brain, Patsy just stuck with the plan due to fear that Burke would be taken away.  I was a terrible decision on her part, if that's what happened.

The suitcase could have been placed there at any point.  In the opinion of many, it may have even been placed there afterwards as a red herring.  The issue of matching the other luggage doesn't mean anything to me.  We have some matched pieces, but the mismatched stuff we no longer use regularly is stored out of the way.  But have you watched any of the videos of people trying to replicate getting in and out of the basement window?  There was a cobweb in the lower corner of that window, which was still intact while the police were photographing the basement right after the murder.  Even skinny people were unable to get in and out of the window without scraping both sides when they tried to demonstrate whether that was an entry/exit point.  IMHO, that didn't happen.

As far as Patsy's distraught behavior . . . she participated in beauty pageants and her "talent" was dramatic readings.  The woman knew how to turn it on and off.

I honestly don't want any of the Ramseys to have been involved in hurting JB or covering it up.  But all they did from day one was to shut out the Boulder Police Department and refuse to work with them on the investigation.  Mark Klaas (whose daughter, Polly, was abducted from their home and murdered) is now an advocate for the families of murdered and abducted children.  The first thing he told the Ramseys was to be in constant contact with the police department because of his belieft that innocent people will be on the phone with the police frequently.  Even Klaas has admitted to being skeptical about the Ramseys' behavior.  

[MrSmith]

@AZChristian Fair enough. I'll have to defer to you and @wings707 (and others) and go back to lurking. I'm not as well-versed on the intricacies and details of this as you guys clearly are.

Edited to add: The luggage thing was significant to me because I've never kept luggage that I've replaced. If it's still in good condition, I'll donate it to Goodwill. Otherwise, it goes in the trash for weekly pickup.

Edited March 20, 2017 by MrSmith

[ghoulina]

Couple of things:

1. It was pineapple, not grapefruit. And yes, Burke's reaction to that topic was very odd. I never watched his Dr. Phil specials, so I cannot comment on how "odd" he does or doesn't act TODAY, but in those early interviews with the child, he alternated between being strangely aloof for someone whose sister had just died, and being very standoffish about seemingly benign things. I can't even remember if they thought the pineapple was a big thing at the time, but the way he reacted to it. It wasn't just a "I don't want to talk about pineapple because it was the last thing my sister ate and it reminds me of her" reaction. He was acting like he never ate a pineapple in his life. It was as if he was trying very strongly to avoid discussing it. And, like I said, he actually never seemed that saddened by JB's death, so I'm not sure how the mention of pineapple would bother him in that regard. 

2. I do believe Burke whacked JB in a moment of anger and killed her. The rest was likely a cover up. As for her neck, it's been said that there were stripe-type marks that resembled the top collar of a shirt. I think it's possible that during their "fight" (if that's what happened), Burke was chasing her and grabbed her by the back collar of her shirt strong enough to leave some pretty serious marks. So this later led them to concoct the garrote, as a way of explaining these marks. I have no trouble believing that Patty would cover up what Burke did. She already lost one child, I'm sure she didn't want to lose another. Yes, some may say - "but if it was just an accident, we don't know that she WOULD lose Burke". But she couldn't really have known either way and in a distraught state, I doubt she wanted to take that gamble. We also have to consider how invested these people, especially PR, were in public image. To have a psycho break into your home and kill your child isn't so much a reflection on you, but if you raised on child capable of killing the other, that would be. 

3. The suitcase. I don't recall it being said that it wasn't theirs. It was always my understanding that it was Andrew Ramsey's, and was usually kept in his room. At any rate, as messy and full of crap as that basement was, I am not sure that any of them would have known exactly what they had and didn't have.  I have no idea why an intruder would pick that suitcase to try and stabilize themselves as they left out of that narrow window. There was a perfectly good chair in the area, as well as a step stool, that would have made a lot more sense. I believe the suitcase was part of the staging, and the scuff mark on the wall could have been left at any time - like when John entered the home through that window several months prior.

4. As for Patsy being so distraught. Of course. Her daughter, who she clearly adored, is still dead. No matter who killed her. 

[AZChristian]

You're right . . . it was pineapple.  My mistake.  

Another point on the suitcase.  There was ONE small piece of glass found on it, and no glass on the floor.  If someone had broken in there that night, there should have been glass all over the floor, unless they swept it all up after writing the 3-page ransom note.

[doodlebug]

19 minutes ago, ghoulina said:

Couple of things:

1. It was pineapple, not grapefruit. And yes, Burke's reaction to that topic was very odd. I never watched his Dr. Phil specials, so I cannot comment on how "odd" he does or doesn't act TODAY, but in those early interviews with the child, he alternated between being strangely aloof for someone whose sister had just died, and being very standoffish about seemingly benign things. I can't even remember if they thought the pineapple was a big thing at the time, but the way he reacted to it. It wasn't just a "I don't want to talk about pineapple because it was the last thing my sister ate and it reminds me of her" reaction. He was acting like he never ate a pineapple in his life. It was as if he was trying very strongly to avoid discussing it. And, like I said, he actually never seemed that saddened by JB's death, so I'm not sure how the mention of pineapple would bother him in that regard. 

2. I do believe Burke whacked JB in a moment of anger and killed her. The rest was likely a cover up. As for her neck, it's been said that there were stripe-type marks that resembled the top collar of a shirt. I think it's possible that during their "fight" (if that's what happened), Burke was chasing her and grabbed her by the back collar of her shirt strong enough to leave some pretty serious marks. So this later led them to concoct the garrote, as a way of explaining these marks. I have no trouble believing that Patty would cover up what Burke did. She already lost one child, I'm sure she didn't want to lose another. Yes, some may say - "but if it was just an accident, we don't know that she WOULD lose Burke". But she couldn't really have known either way and in a distraught state, I doubt she wanted to take that gamble. We also have to consider how invested these people, especially PR, were in public image. To have a psycho break into your home and kill your child isn't so much a reflection on you, but if you raised on child capable of killing the other, that would be. 

3. The suitcase. I don't recall it being said that it wasn't theirs. It was always my understanding that it was Andrew Ramsey's, and was usually kept in his room. At any rate, as messy and full of crap as that basement was, I am not sure that any of them would have known exactly what they had and didn't have.  I have no idea why an intruder would pick that suitcase to try and stabilize themselves as they left out of that narrow window. There was a perfectly good chair in the area, as well as a step stool, that would have made a lot more sense. I believe the suitcase was part of the staging, and the scuff mark on the wall could have been left at any time - like when John entered the home through that window several months prior.

4. As for Patsy being so distraught. Of course. Her daughter, who she clearly adored, is still dead. No matter who killed her. 

1.And, even if it had been determined that pineapple was the last food JonBenet ate, how did Burke know that?  Did his parents tell him?  It didn't come out until the autopsy was completed some time after the murder.  Why would he be visibly shaken by a photo of the bowl of pineapple on the table unless he knew JonBenet ate some because he was present and witnessed it?  It seemed to me that he was shocked to see the pineapple because he knew the relationship between it and his sister.

2.  Also, JonBenet's head wound was not obvious; there wasn't a huge laceration or blood in her hair.  It could be that someone came upon her, saw the marks on her neck, thought that was the cause of her unconsciousness/death and placed the garrote in an attempt to disguise the other marks on her neck and provide a method of killing that was not likely to be in the repertoire of a child Burke's age.  It seems clearly to be part of the staging meant to distract from the real method of death or the other evidence of possible strangulation.

3. I agree, the scuff mark on the wall could've happened at any time including weeks earlier when John Ramsey admittedly climbed through the window.

[ghoulina]

3 minutes ago, doodlebug said:

1.And, even if it had been determined that pineapple was the last food JonBenet ate, how did Burke know that?  Did his parents tell him?  It didn't come out until the autopsy was completed some time after the murder.  Why would he be visibly shaken by a photo of the bowl of pineapple on the table unless he knew JonBenet ate some because he was present and witnessed it?  It seemed to me that he was shocked to see the pineapple because he knew the relationship between it and his sister.

Exactly. Unless he was up that night and present for that, why would he even know the significance of the pineapple? I saw a kid who was being incredibly guarded and evasive the minute the pineapple was brought up - where previously he had been half-sitting/half laying in the chair, easily answering questions...very casual. Then his body language changed and he was all, "Pineapple? What pineapple? I'm not sure I even know what pineapple is. I certainly have never eaten it a day in my life". 

[Wings]

7 hours ago, MrSmith said:

@AZChristian Fair enough. I'll have to defer to you and @wings707 (and others) and go back to lurking. I'm not as well-versed on the intricacies and details of this as you guys clearly are.

Edited to add: The luggage thing was significant to me because I've never kept luggage that I've replaced. If it's still in good condition, I'll donate it to Goodwill. Otherwise, it goes in the trash for weekly pickup.

I have to comment on this.  I have always been one to discard everything and anything I no longer needed or wanted.  My husband and sons, if missing something, would always claim I threw it away.  I never did toss anyone else's belongings, I would needle them until they agreed though!  EXCEPT luggage or bag/totes of any kind.  I am mad for containers with handles!  I moved 2,300 miles from FL to AZ last year and brought every bag I owned and left things behind I wish I had saved.  

[ari333]

4 hours ago, ghoulina said:

Couple of things:

1. It was pineapple, not grapefruit. And yes, Burke's reaction to that topic was very odd. I never watched his Dr. Phil specials, so I cannot comment on how "odd" he does or doesn't act TODAY, but in those early interviews with the child, he alternated between being strangely aloof for someone whose sister had just died, and being very standoffish about seemingly benign things. I can't even remember if they thought the pineapple was a big thing at the time, but the way he reacted to it. It wasn't just a "I don't want to talk about pineapple because it was the last thing my sister ate and it reminds me of her" reaction. He was acting like he never ate a pineapple in his life. It was as if he was trying very strongly to avoid discussing it. And, like I said, he actually never seemed that saddened by JB's death, so I'm not sure how the mention of pineapple would bother him in that regard. 

2. I do believe Burke whacked JB in a moment of anger and killed her. The rest was likely a cover up. As for her neck, it's been said that there were stripe-type marks that resembled the top collar of a shirt. I think it's possible that during their "fight" (if that's what happened), Burke was chasing her and grabbed her by the back collar of her shirt strong enough to leave some pretty serious marks. So this later led them to concoct the garrote, as a way of explaining these marks. I have no trouble believing that Patty would cover up what Burke did. She already lost one child, I'm sure she didn't want to lose another. Yes, some may say - "but if it was just an accident, we don't know that she WOULD lose Burke". But she couldn't really have known either way and in a distraught state, I doubt she wanted to take that gamble. We also have to consider how invested these people, especially PR, were in public image. To have a psycho break into your home and kill your child isn't so much a reflection on you, but if you raised on child capable of killing the other, that would be. 

3. The suitcase. I don't recall it being said that it wasn't theirs. It was always my understanding that it was Andrew Ramsey's, and was usually kept in his room. At any rate, as messy and full of crap as that basement was, I am not sure that any of them would have known exactly what they had and didn't have.  I have no idea why an intruder would pick that suitcase to try and stabilize themselves as they left out of that narrow window. There was a perfectly good chair in the area, as well as a step stool, that would have made a lot more sense. I believe the suitcase was part of the staging, and the scuff mark on the wall could have been left at any time - like when John entered the home through that window several months prior.

4. As for Patsy being so distraught. Of course. Her daughter, who she clearly adored, is still dead. No matter who killed her. 

THIS ^^^^^

[Wings]

5 hours ago, ghoulina said:

Couple of things:

1. It was pineapple, not grapefruit. And yes, Burke's reaction to that topic was very odd. I never watched his Dr. Phil specials, so I cannot comment on how "odd" he does or doesn't act TODAY, but in those early interviews with the child, he alternated between being strangely aloof for someone whose sister had just died, and being very standoffish about seemingly benign things. I can't even remember if they thought the pineapple was a big thing at the time, but the way he reacted to it. It wasn't just a "I don't want to talk about pineapple because it was the last thing my sister ate and it reminds me of her" reaction. He was acting like he never ate a pineapple in his life. It was as if he was trying very strongly to avoid discussing it. And, like I said, he actually never seemed that saddened by JB's death, so I'm not sure how the mention of pineapple would bother him in that regard. 

2. I do believe Burke whacked JB in a moment of anger and killed her. The rest was likely a cover up. As for her neck, it's been said that there were stripe-type marks that resembled the top collar of a shirt. I think it's possible that during their "fight" (if that's what happened), Burke was chasing her and grabbed her by the back collar of her shirt strong enough to leave some pretty serious marks. So this later led them to concoct the garrote, as a way of explaining these marks. I have no trouble believing that Patty would cover up what Burke did. She already lost one child, I'm sure she didn't want to lose another. Yes, some may say - "but if it was just an accident, we don't know that she WOULD lose Burke". But she couldn't really have known either way and in a distraught state, I doubt she wanted to take that gamble. We also have to consider how invested these people, especially PR, were in public image. To have a psycho break into your home and kill your child isn't so much a reflection on you, but if you raised on child capable of killing the other, that would be. 

3. The suitcase. I don't recall it being said that it wasn't theirs. It was always my understanding that it was Andrew Ramsey's, and was usually kept in his room. At any rate, as messy and full of crap as that basement was, I am not sure that any of them would have known exactly what they had and didn't have.  I have no idea why an intruder would pick that suitcase to try and stabilize themselves as they left out of that narrow window. There was a perfectly good chair in the area, as well as a step stool, that would have made a lot more sense. I believe the suitcase was part of the staging, and the scuff mark on the wall could have been left at any time - like when John entered the home through that window several months prior.

4. As for Patsy being so distraught. Of course. Her daughter, who she clearly adored, is still dead. No matter who killed her. 

Yes on every single word.  Applause, good, accurate post.  

[MrSmith]

31 minutes ago, wings707 said:

I have to comment on this.  I have always been one to discard everything and anything I no longer needed or wanted.  My husband and sons, if missing something, would always claim I threw it away.  I never did toss anyone else's belongings, I would needle them until they agreed though!  EXCEPT luggage or bag/totes of any kind.  I am mad for containers with handles!  I moved 2,300 miles from FL to AZ last year and brought every bag I owned and left things behind I wish I had saved.  

We use plastic totes to store and move our stuff. We had our basement flood in the early 2000's and that taught us to keep things in water-tight containers. We don't travel much and so we only have an old, ratty set of luggage (that I hate).

[Wings]

11 hours ago, MrSmith said:

We use plastic totes to store and move our stuff. We had our basement flood in the early 2000's and that taught us to keep things in water-tight containers. We don't travel much and so we only have an old, ratty set of luggage (that I hate).

I am the proud owner of 6 IKEA blue bags, I treasure them.  I use them for groceries, too. 

[EVS]

For me the most significant thing about Burke's interview with Dr. Phil was that it was the first time I had heard that Burke had snuck downstairs the night of the murder to play with a toy.  To me that means one of two things:  Either he was awake during the time the murder may have occurred, or the time frame for an intruder to kill JB was even smaller.

An intruder would have had to sneak into the house, write a ransom note while waiting, then wait not only for the family to go to bed, but stay hidden while Burke snuck down and played with his toy. Then the intruder would have had to wait until he was sure Burke was asleep and then sneak upstairs and take JB downstairs, either by using a stun gun or taking her downstairs and feeding her pineapple. 

Then he would have to take JB to the basement, do everything that was done to her, which may have taken some time especially if the head injury occurred a while before the strangulation as some experts have claimed.

Then the intruder would have had to sneak  upstairs and place the note on the spiral stairs and then for some strange reason, instead of exiting from a door on the first floor since the alarm was off, go back downstairs and use a wobbly suitcase to try to squeeze through a tiny window.  All before Patsy woke up very early to get ready for the trip.

The whole thing makes no sense. My heart has always wanted to believe an intruder killed JB, but my head says it had to be someone in the family.

Edited March 21, 2017 by EVS
Expand answer and correct typos

[ari333]

I don't know every single thing about this case, but I've followed it pretty closely since the beginning. I don't think PR and JR would cover for each other, but I do think one or both would cover for BR. And that note was written by PR imo. No kidnapper/murderer/ criminal would write a note that long, period- and especially not IN the home. and make practice notes?  And put it on the back steps?  Jeez.

And in that clip, Burke acting like he had never seen fruit before was just too much.

I'm inclined to think that Burke hit her, but did not intend to kill her. He had hit her before and she didn't die. He was 9 (ok almost 10). This time he hit her too hard.

I'm still stumped on the garrote.

Does anyone recall if there were fingerprints on the flashlight? Bc there should have been... and on the batteries. I thought I read that there were no fingerprints. If so, why would someone wipe down a flashlight... unless...

Surely they tested the feces - that it came from Burke. It points to BR.. I don't think it was PR or JR.  I know there was an older daughter from JR's first marriage  who died in 1992. Was there an older son? (I might be confused on this part)  (If so, was he even around?) I was thinking that JR had three kids with the first wife and two with PR.

 And JBR wouldn't foul her own candy. That is disturbing if BR did that, if it's true.

Edited March 21, 2017 by ari333

[ghoulina]

1 hour ago, ari333 said:

Does anyone recall if there were fingerprints on the flashlight? Bc there should have been... and on the batteries. I thought I read that there were no fingerprints. If so, why would someone wipe down a flashlight... unless...

Yes, the flashlight was completely free of prints - inside and out. Wiping down the outside of the flashlight makes sense if you're a criminal. But an intruder would ostensibly not have put the batteries in the light, so why bother to wipe down the inside as well. That always stood out to me. 

 

1 hour ago, ari333 said:

Surely they tested the feces - that it came from Burke. It points to BR.. I don't think it was PR or JR.  I know there was an older daughter from JR's first marriage  who died in 1992. Was there an older son? (I might be confused on this part)  (If so, was he even around?) I was thinking that JR had three kids with the first wife and two with PR.

Yes, John Andrew Ramsey was the older son. It was supposedly his suitcase that was found under the window. I believe John did have 3 kids, and they were due to meet the remaining two in Michigan that morning for their annual Christmas vacation. 

[ari333]

3 hours ago, ghoulina said:

Yes, the flashlight was completely free of prints - inside and out. Wiping down the outside of the flashlight makes sense if you're a criminal. But an intruder would ostensibly not have put the batteries in the light, so why bother to wipe down the inside as well. That always stood out to me. 

 

Yes, John Andrew Ramsey was the older son. It was supposedly his suitcase that was found under the window. I believe John did have 3 kids, and they were due to meet the remaining two in Michigan that morning for their annual Christmas vacation. 

Thank you. That flashlight wiped down screams weird to me.

I don't really get any creep vibe from the suitcase except it looked staged to me....among other things looking staged. 

[MrSmith]

Interesting. I haven't followed this case closely enough and you all have clearly followed it much, much, much closer than I have.

[April Bloodgate]

Anybody else watch Casting JonBenet on Netflix yet?

[ghoulina]

No, I hadn't even heard of it. Is it just more of the same, or something different?

[GaT]

2 hours ago, April Bloodgate said:

Anybody else watch Casting JonBenet on Netflix yet?

Yes, I did, what a waste of time. I don't really care what actors who are auditioning for a part think about who killed her. The whole thing was stupid & boring.

[April Bloodgate]

I thought the point was less about what actors thought and more about the fact that these were people local to the area. But I still wasn't crazy about it.

[April Bloodgate]

Another note about Casting JonBenet, the house they show isn't the actual Ramsey house. It's a house in Denver. (I have a friend who works for the local government and saw the filming permit come through.) I have no idea why they chose a different house. Anybody can drive past the real one in Boulder any time.

[Maharincess]

I'm surprised the house hasn't been torn down, like the new owners did with OJ Simpson's house. I would imagine that even after 20 years people still drive by the house and take pictures. 

[AZChristian]

14 hours ago, Maharincess said:

I'm surprised the house hasn't been torn down, like the new owners did with OJ Simpson's house. I would imagine that even after 20 years people still drive by the house and take pictures. 

Yep, I did.  But they've put up a big wrought iron fence and shrubbery, so it's not as visible from the street as it was then.

[Epeolatrix]

Quote

I'm surprised the house hasn't been torn down, like the new owners did with OJ Simpson's house.

The Ramsey crime didn't have an impact on the house itself physically or on surrounding property values, so it was better to just make cosmetic changes. OJ's house was torn down because the new owner said it needed so much work to do the improvements he wanted, it was cheaper to tear it down and start over. [Studying murder houses and stigmatized properties is a new amateur hobby of mine.]

[starri]

The Amityville Horror house is similarly intact. The current owners changed those half-moon windows that looked like eyes for square ones, but it's still there and fairly open to the road. 

[Guest]

On 5/2/2017 at 3:00 PM, GaT said:

On 5/2/2017 at 0:26 PM, April Bloodgate said:

Anybody else watch Casting JonBenet on Netflix yet?

Yes, I did, what a waste of time. I don't really care what actors who are auditioning for a part think about who killed her. The whole thing was stupid & boring.

Glad to read this. I saw the preview and was underwhelmed despite all the accolades spouted about it. Gonna pass on it.

[TattleTeeny]

It was awful.

[MaggieG]

On 5/2/2017 at 0:26 PM, April Bloodgate said:

Anybody else watch Casting JonBenet on Netflix yet?

I'm glad I wasn't the only one who hated it. It didn't add anything new to what we already knew. The only person who was kind of interesting was the guy who dated the woman who worked with John Ramsey. I believe he said she was going to take over for him in his company. I would love to know if she had more info on the family

[Maharincess]

You guys convinced me that the Casting thing was so bad that I need to watch it. Wow, it was bad. What was the point of the whole thing? It made no sense, they showed a full minute of one of the "actors" sitting in a chair with his eyes closed then another one is talking about her dad sticking an ax in her scull.  

It also sent me down a true crime Netflix rabbit hole. I'm currently watching the Amanda Knox documentary. I hadn't read much about her case and I'm now ordering books on Kindle.  Anybody want to talk about that case enough that I should start a thread or no?