S02.E12: eps2.9_pyth0n-pt2.p7z

[formerlyfreedom]

Quote

In the Season 2 finale, Angela makes an unexpected acquaintance; Darlene realizes she's in deep; and an old friend reals all to Elliot.

 

[WatchrTina]

WTF did I just watch?

Big congratulations to Remi Malick for the Emmy but DAMN this season is confusing.

[patty1h]

Whoever shipped Tyrell and Elliot, you got a nice present tonight -- confirmation that Tyrell loves Elliott. Keep your fingers crossed for next season and start checking Tumblr for fanfic.

[juliet73]

I'm more confused than ever!!!  On the plus side, barely any Angela... 

[morgankobi]

Fish sighting! At least that question was answered.

[green]

Oh Elliot this is what you get for reading online that so many fans think Tyrell was just in your head, hah.  Oh well your wound has nearly a year to heal before the show returns.  (I hope they don't do a time skip skipping over Phase 2 unleashed but wait until later to do any time skips but knowing this show I wouldn't be surprised if they do).

So since we learned that it was Darlene who gave Tyrell the famed popcorn gun to protect the project from Elliot she must know about Phase 2 as well.  Or did I get something twisted up in my head there.  (Corrected this below.  Elliot gave Tyrell the gun to protect the project from himself, not Darlene).

Angela seems to be in the inner loop now as she and Tyrell are in cahoots on the phone in her one scene.  Whiterose have a true convert then?

Loved the epilogue scene.  So Trenton finally did get out of Ron's Coffee and went to Arizona with Mobley.  And so did Elliot's former Dark Army "protector" from prison (what is his name again) who wants to know -- cue Whiterose's favorite topic -- if they "have the time."  Yeah sure that was an innocent inquiry.  Glad all three should be in season 3 now.  At least I hope the guy is there to "protect" them anyway since Trenton wanted Mobley to help her "undo everything".

Why is it that every time Dom has a scene the show just grinds to a boring halt?  She is getting as bad as Angela for slowing the show's pace to glacial.  In this case it is more the writing than the actor I think with too much fluff in those scenes but still it just seems so much a wasting of the time I'd rather spend with Elliot and his "friends," real and imagined.  

Anyway interesting that the FBI chart still has Tyrell at the top of f.society with Elliot directly under him.  At least they don't know everything as yet but it is the first direct indication they know Elliot is involved though the python can wait for her meal for like forever apparently.

So Phase 2 is just the continuation of destroying all of Evil Corp's paper records liked they were trying to do at the upstate NY facility way back when?  Why would Evil Corp truck them all into a central location that is also their corporate HQ?  Usually if something is threatened they disperse their assets so one hit can't take them down.  Also no way they have room for tons of boxes in a swank office building with no warehouse like storage area let alone it being climate controlled etc for said storage.

Why does Tyrell love Elliot so?  The very second episode of the series he was so disappointed when Elliot turned down his offer to work at Evil Corp.  He turned away and walked to the window to look out and almost looked like he was ready to cry then.

And now we get a first hint that Tyrell has some dad issues as in he must view his father as a failure more than a hero.  Though the poem in English his father remembered involved a red wagon like the one the pyro was burning stuff in at the fantasyland prison yard.  These little details that probably add up to nothing really mess with your mind.

I did love the shot looking back into the window Elliot is looking out of framed on each flank by Mr Robot and Tyrell.  That will become one of the most iconic stills from the series I bet.  Can't wait to download it as wallpaper.

PS: Yeah morgankobi there was Qwerty.  Hmmm why were we shown that?  Is Qwerty some key to something?  Is there some secret micro-micro-chip buried in the fish?  Is the fish the real mastermind behind it all?  And why am I thinking of a master of the universe goldfish at all? This show is really getting to me.

Edited September 22, 2016 by green

[Cardie]

What we're still waiting for, I guess, is the first meeting between Elliot as Mr. Robot and Whiterose. Whiterose has been nursing the Washington Township plot since Elliot was a little kid; when did they decide to partner in the destruction of E-Corp and the world economy? Does Elliot want something other than that?

If The Dark Army didn't take out Romero, then we have to rethink what loose ends are being cleaned up. Whiterose seems to have protected everyone connected to Elliot and is fond of Dom apparently as well. So, really, it was only the FBI team in China and Cisco, who was a Dark Army operative. Now Whiterose has recruited Angela and seems to have taken Tyrell onboard at some point just before or just after the hack.

The poem Tyrell quoted is the famous minimalist-modernist classic by William Carlos Williams:

so much depends
upon

a red wheel
barrow

glazed with rain
water

beside the white
chickens

[morgankobi]

16 minutes ago, green said:

PS: Yeah morgankobi there was Qwerty.  Hmmm why were we shown that?  Is Qwerty some key to something?  Is there some secret micro-micro-chip buried in the fish?  Is the fish the real mastermind behind it all?  And why am I thinking of a master of the universe goldfish at all? This show is really getting to me.

C-c-c-c-c-c-c-c-c-cathcart Towers

;)

[Miles]

Well that was something.

I wonder if the FBI were really watching all the Fsociety people all this time. It doesn't seem to gel with what we've seen from the FBI so far. I think it's possible that they printed out that wall 10 minutes before Dom lead Darlene into that room to get her to talk.

15 minutes ago, green said:

Loved the epilogue scene.  So Trenton finally did get out of Ron's Coffee and went to Arizona with Mobley.  And so did Elliot's former Dark Army "protector" from prison (what is his name again) who wants to know -- cue Whiterose's favorite topic -- if they "have the time."  Yeah sure that was an innocent inquiry.  Glad all three should be in season 3 now.  At least I hope the guy is there to "protect" them anyway since Trenton wanted Mobley to help her "undo everything".

There was an epilouge scene? Damn that must have been cut off from my version.

Guess I'll have to hunt for another one tomorrow to see that scene.

[green]

1 hour ago, Cardie said:

What we're still waiting for, I guess, is the first meeting between Elliot as Mr. Robot and Whiterose. Whiterose has been nursing the Washington Township plot since Elliot was a little kid; when did they decide to partner in the destruction of E-Corp and the world economy? Does Elliot want something other than that?

If The Dark Army didn't take out Romero, then we have to rethink what loose ends are being cleaned up. Whiterose seems to have protected everyone connected to Elliot and is fond of Dom apparently as well. So, really, it was only the FBI team in China and Cisco, who was a Dark Army operative. Now Whiterose has recruited Angela and seems to have taken Tyrell onboard at some point just before or just after the hack.

The poem Tyrell quoted is the famous minimalist-modernist classic by William Carlos Williams:

so much depends
upon

a red wheel
barrow

glazed with rain
water

beside the white
chickens

But the Dark Army did take out Romero given that Dom and her boss were discussing that the DA were killing everyone ahead of them getting to them out in the hallway in that scene.  Dom is just playing Darlene trying to earn her trust by, you know, lying to her.

Thanks for the poem.  I got it wrong.  Not a red wagon but a red wheel barrow.  People will be dissecting that poem all off season now which is what Esmail is hoping for along with fish sightings and popcorn guns and who knows what else

1 hour ago, Miles said:

Well that was something.

I wonder if the FBI were really watching all the Fsociety people all this time. It doesn't seem to gel with what we've seen from the FBI so far. I think it's possible that they printed out that wall 10 minutes before Dom lead Darlene into that room to get her to talk.

There was an epilouge scene? Damn that must have been cut off from my version.

Guess I'll have to hunt for another one tomorrow to see that scene.

The end credits start with the song playing strong in the background and you could think the show is over but then the song continues fainter in the background as a scene comes up and we see some fast food place (edit ... it was an electronics box store instead...see below post, sorry) parking lot in the middle of desert nowhere Arizona (?) with Mobley and Trenton apparently working there as employees and sitting at an outdoor picnic table at break.  That ring a bell with you or no?

Just checked.  If you are still online FYI on the east coast here anyway the finale of Mr Robot is re-playing at 1 AM aka in a few minutes.

Edited September 22, 2016 by green

[Miles]

4 minutes ago, green said:

The end credits start with the song playing strong in the background and you could think the show is over but then the song continues fainter in the background as a scene comes up and we see some fast food place parking lot in the middle of desert nowhere Arizona (?) with Mobley and Trenton apparently working there as employees and sitting at an outdoor picnic table at break.  That ring a bell with you or no?

In my version "we got tonight" starts playing and white credits on a black background roll. After that, nothing. Could be that it cut off too early.

Edited September 22, 2016 by Miles

[green]

2 minutes ago, Miles said:

In my version "we got tonight" starts playing and white credits on a black background roll. After that, nothing. Could be that it cut off too early.

See above it is coming on again tonight (this wee AM anyway).

[Cardie]

9 minutes ago, green said:

But the Dark Army did take out Romero given that Dom and her boss were discussing that the DA were killing everyone ahead of them getting to them out in the hallway in that scene. 

But they didn't know they were looking for Romero until he was already dead. I think it's equally possible that Dom wasn't lying about that. Mobley's panic then sent everybody scrambling and attracted Dark Army attention. But many on the whiteboard (Elliot, Darlene, Angela, Ollie, Mobley, Trenton, the E-Corp guy played by Bruce Altman) are very much alive.

[Miles]

31 minutes ago, green said:

See above it is coming on again tonight (this wee AM anyway).

That would be helpfull if I was in america. ;D

Thanks anyway. :)

Edit: Already got the *proper* version. :D

Edited September 22, 2016 by Miles

[green]

Me bad on two points.  Mobley and Trenton (now Frederick and Tanya, I guess that is their assumed names) work at an electronics box store named Fry's, not a fast food place.  I saw "Fry's" in big letters on it and thought Fry = fast food, me bad.

Also worst mistake was it was indeed Elliot who gave the gun to Tyrell to protect the project; not Darlene.  Caught that on the re-broadcast.

Also I remembered something Mr Robot said to Elliot the first viewing but didn't get it exactly.  What I got second viewing was: "You're meant to only know as much as you can handle."  That was when Elliot had been shouting at Mr Robot to tell him the whole thing while Tyrell worked in the background.

The other odd thing was that when Elliot lay bleeding on the floor the last line uttered to him before we fade from the scene seemed to be delivered by Tyrell but he used the expression "kiddo" like Mr Robot always called Elliot.  Either that or the two voices merged?  I didn't really get that.

Miles, I wish I could get the "proper" version too but my cable company sent me a nasty threatening letter over getting proper earlier versions of season one last month, sigh.  I think I'll start calling them Evil Cable, a subsidiary of Evil Corp.

Cardie, maybe Dom didn't lie but I still think she did.  I think Dark Army just kills who they have to as in they may have thought the FBI was near finding Romero. And they have no idea about the whiteboard we saw in the "python is patiently waiting" room.  Well unless they have a mole in the FBI which is always possible.

Elliot isn't going to be killed by them because he is the mastermind and his sister is probably protected cause of her skills but also more because Elliot would loose it if he found out she was killed. 

Ollie never was anything but an idiot and not associated with f.society or Dark Army and knows nothing of import so no need to off him. 

Whiterose has an interest in Angela so she seems under her protection. 

Mobley and Trenton got out of Dodge before they could be traced.  Well until the last scene tonight.  The Dark Army as finally tracked them down.  Will Elliot's fantasyland prison protector dude protect them or kill them?  We don't know yet.  If he doesn't then maybe I'll agree they didn't kill Romero either but I won't know that until next year which is soooo a long way off, sniff.

But Cisco was indeed killed by the Dark Army and I see no evidence Romero wasn't at this point since the FBI lies about everything to suspects to get them to talk.  I know Dom is being painted in the show as a sympathetic "good cop" (and I dislike that angle personally) but if I was Darlene I wouldn't believe a word she said.

Edited September 22, 2016 by green

[yourmomiseasy]

1 hour ago, green said:

But the Dark Army did take out Romero given that Dom and her boss were discussing that the DA were killing everyone ahead of them getting to them out in the hallway in that scene.  Dom is just playing Darlene trying to earn her trust by, you know, lying to her.

Thanks for the poem.  I got it wrong.  Not a red wagon but a red wheel barrow.  People will be dissecting that poem all off season now which is what Esmail is hoping for along with fish sightings and popcorn guns and who knows what else

The end credits start with the song playing strong in the background and you could think the show is over but then the song continues fainter in the background as a scene comes up and we see some fast food place parking lot in the middle of desert nowhere Arizona (?) with Mobley and Trenton apparently working there as employees and sitting at an outdoor picnic table at break.  That ring a bell with you or no?

Just checked.  If you are still online FYI on the east coast here anyway the finale of Mr Robot is re-playing at 1 AM aka in a few minutes.

Fry's is an electronics store mostly on the west coast.  The locations all have different themes.  The one I used to go to in Burbank is si-fi themed.  Now I go to the tiki themed one in Manhattan Beach for the most part.  I've been to the gold rush one up in Sacramento a few times too.  

[Cardie]

A whole other season goes by and we still don't know what Elliot and Tyrell were up to for those missing three days. I suppose some of it was spent setting up that space for Stage 2. But what did the parking garage attendant see? Does Whiterose have a safe house where she's been hiding Tyrell?

When all those folks start shipping Tyrell and Elliot, they've got a ready made name for the pairing: Tyrelliot.

 

20 hours ago, green said:

But Cisco was indeed killed by the Dark Army and I see no evidence Romero wasn't at this point

The thing is that thus far the Dark Army has spared everyone who was a member of fsociety. Romero being the victim of a random bullet jibes with that pattern. To the FBI it looks like everyone they want to talk to dies or goes missing, so it's natural to suspect one secret organization cleaning up loose ends. But the people who have died/disappeared have a number of other antagonists. Darlene killed Susan Jacobs, Joanna had the parking garage guy killed, Trenton and Mobley scared themselves into fleeing, an aggrieved citizen offed Gideon, etc.

[yourmomiseasy]

I'm all in on Joanna's long term plotting to clear Tyrell's name.  Even though it was predictable I love how she's just been plugging away in the background all season.  

So I guess Whiterose had Elliot patched up at some Dark Army safe house.  I wonder if phase 2 happened while he was out.  The scene where he thought Tyrell was fake and wouldn't shoot him and then he got shot was, for me, a neat spin on his problems.  

A computer at one point said Friday August 8th.  The days of the week have been consistently off by one all season.  They put so much effort into getting everything right that I don't know how to parse this.  Is it just a mistake or does it mean something?  Bug or feature?

I'm glad Darlene is alive.  I assume she's not going to fall for Dom's BS.  I wonder if Elliot is somehow going to hack her out.  I also wonder how they are going to get past the FBI apparently knowing who almost all the players are.

I also really enjoyed seeing Elliot in a scene that was originally Mr. Robot.  I had been wondering what that would look like.  If he'd be giving off a more cocky vibe like Mr. Robot or if it would just be his normal self.

Edited September 22, 2016 by yourmomiseasy

[Anela]

Joanna is just... wow. He lost his wife and a baby, all because of her and her husband. I can't get behind her. 

I like that we're finding things out as Elliot does. I just wish we didn't have to wait until next Summer for more! Damn. 

My DVR cut off, just as the camera was panning to the person who approached them at the end. Since they were talking about possibly undoing everything, I don't think he's there to protect them. :( 

[atlantaloves]

Okay people, help me on this one, Tyrell is really alive right, not an alter of Elliott?...I am so confused, I really really thought I had all his alters figured out...Damn it. Set me straight friend! Thanks.

[Anela]

In the movie "Fight Club" I hated Brad Pitt's character, and the men who acted like disciples under him/them. I like that Elliot wants to stop bad things from happening, like Jack, in the movie. 

1 minute ago, atlantaloves said:

Okay people, help me on this one, Tyrell is really alive right, not an alter of Elliott?...I am so confused, I really really thought I had all his alters figured out...Damn it. Set me straight friend! Thanks.

Yes, he's alive. As far as I could tell. Angela spoke to him, he shot Elliot. 

[green]

1 hour ago, Cardie said:

The thing is that thus far the Dark Army has spared everyone who was a member of fsociety. Romero being the victim of a random bullet jibes with that pattern. To the FBI it looks like everyone they want to talk to dies or goes missing, so it's natural to suspect one secret organization cleaning up loose ends. But the people who have died/disappeared have a number of other antagonists. Darlene killed Susan Jacobs, Joanna had the parking garage guy killed, Trenton and Mobley scared themselves into fleeing, an aggrieved citizen offed Gideon, etc.

Fair enough.  But remember Mobley had been brought in for questioning by the FBI and the Dark Army could well be aware of that so I think Mobley fled for very good reason. 

Now Trenton (now called Tanya) is trying to talk Mobley (now called Frederick) into helping her un-do everything so Dark Army won't be pleased if they find out.  And Dark Army prison protector of Elliot dude (what is his name) just finally tracked them down in the last seconds of the episode.  If he finds out what Trenton/Tanya wants it will be curtains for those two even if Mobley convinces him he told the FBI nothing.

The only hope I have for those two surviving is protector and/or assassin dude didn't hear them talking about un-doing the stuff.  And she found something mysterious that would make the un-do possible so there is a mystery of what she discovered we might get to explore so they may survive this encounter. 

Of course if either actor or both get offered more substantial roles before Season 3 shoots then they definitely will die.  We sometime forget there are often mundane real life events that cause storylines to shift on a TV show that lasts year after year too.  Maybe that is why we don't know which way it will go between them and the "protector" (what is his NAME???).  It keeps options open for Esmail.

On re-watch I did make out a bit more of the phone conversation between mumbling Angela and in the background Tyrell.  She did ask if he had been with Elliot when he woke up so that had to be at least a day later probably.  And maybe the same place the Dark Army put up Tyrell the last three months.  It was funny how they both went out of their way to mentioned how they loved Elliot.  I don't know what makes Tyrell feel an emotional connection to him.  That is still a mystery.

I did like the re-take of the meeting between Elliot and Tyrell on Coney Island in the SUV.  At the end Tyrell runs after him not understanding and Elliot tells him to look above for the answer.  And Tyrell is saying stuff like I don't understand you.  Please tell me what you mean etc.  I was thinking yeah and tell the rest of us at the same time too please.

17 minutes ago, atlantaloves said:

Okay people, help me on this one, Tyrell is really alive right, not an alter of Elliott?...I am so confused, I really really thought I had all his alters figured out...Damn it. Set me straight friend! Thanks.

Well I never thought Tyrell was in Elliot's head at all.  He always had a separate storyline and life in the present away from Elliot unlike Elliot's father who was "conveniently" dead in the present thus was available for duty in Elliot's head.

The Joanna/Knowles storyline doesn't interest me much.  I know it will all tie together but I just don't care.  Poor Tyrell will feel her wrath though once she finds out he has been alive and didn't try to contact her.  And it seems inevitable she will since she needs to be tied back to the main story line eventually.

Edited September 22, 2016 by green

[yourmomiseasy]

His name is Leon.

[green]

41 minutes ago, yourmomiseasy said:

His name is Leon.

Thank you thank you thank you!  No more "protector of Elliot dude" titles and stuff now.  Whew!

[Kalliste]

So recently I've been watching Vikings but on Thursday nights we watch Mr. Robot instead. This episode really made me miss Vikings.

What was the point of this whole season? It took months to find out nothing? Other than that Tyrell is in fact alive.

Have to say I'm pretty disappointed in the season as a whole, it was far too slow and the best episode was one that Elliot wasn't even in. Yet, that's all I remember about that episode because everything has been so uneventful.

I sort of wish we just had a spin off of White Rose and the Dark Army. She is much more interesting than everyone else.

[hincandenza]

46 minutes ago, green said:

Now Trenton (now called Tanya) is trying to talk Mobley (now called Frederick) into helping her un-do everything so Dark Army won't be pleased if they find out. 

[...]

And she found something mysterious that would make the un-do possible so there is a mystery of what she discovered we might get to explore so they may survive this encounter.

I'm pretty sure she says it explicitly: she thinks they have a way of regenerating the keys.  Basically, the fsociety hack was an "irreversible" encryption of all the E-Corp data, which has the same impact as deleting it but with the possibility- if you still have the encryption key- of decrypting it back to the original data.  This would undo the hack, and restore everything about E-Corp (minus whatever's been happening in the mean time these past 3 months). Of course, what we've seen of Price this season, I doubt he would want E-Corp restored to pre-5/9: this chaos is too juicy an opportunity to pass up!

Anyway, regarding Tanya's plan: there was a story about an online poker game that had a flaw, where some computer people realized that they could tell what the other cards were when playing and thus maximize their winnings.  The "hack" turned out to be that while the number of possible deck shuffles is unimaginably huge- something like 10^67, where it would take every computer on earth until long past the end of the universe to crack- the computer would use the system clock as the input seed.  A computer is very logical, so it can only create random numbers by using some external values that are random- such as the exact millisecond you the human choose to hit a key on the keyboard, or whenever a new hand deal is triggered in some poker game server.   Computers typically only expose system time to the millisecond for programs, and there are only 86,400,000 milliseconds in a day.  Since you're playing live you know the shuffle time was sometime in the last minute or so, you can lower those possible input seeds down to 200,000- the kind of number size a home computer can blow through in a few seconds.   Therefore, armed with knowledge of the kind of "random" number generator algorithm involved, you could feed into it every one of the ~200,000 possible input values, determine the resulting shuffle that would be done, and compare that to the cards you can see (your own two cards, and the three flop cards) to uniquely identify the exact "random" shuffle you got.  Now you know every other player's cards, and can almost never lose.

I'm wondering if "Tanya" is thinking along those lines: that perhaps they know both the date and time of creation of the hack keys that were used down to a few minutes, along with some common f.society passphrase or some other poor security practice, that helps them limit the possible inputs to the key generator program.  With that information, they could potentially get both immunity and plenty of start-over -in-hiding money by reverting the hack: compute the few billion or trillion possibilities on some machines to see which encryption key would have generated some encrypted fragments with known unencrypted sources..

 

I don't think i was satisfied with the finale.  I didn't hate it, but I'm going to have to think about it. It comes down to how much longer I'm willing to endure the "Tease", before we have to get some meaningful answers.  It'd be easier to take a cliffhanger if the seasons weren't so short and only once a year!

[Potanical Pardon]

Microcenter for the East Coast and Fry's for the West (even though they still have locations spread out, but still). This show gets me.

Basically, they're the same kind of store targeted towards techies. Fry's is much larger in scale and sells all kinds of random other stuff too like musical instruments, vinyl, has cafes inside of it and $5 knock-off versions of expensive perfume that according to my wife, are pretty damn identical. Fry's floor people can't be bothered to help, but that's fine since its target audience already knows what they're looking for. Microcenter's floor people fall over each other to stick their commission sticker on your product. 

They both serve their purpose: If impatient and cannot wait for Newegg or Amazon Prime deliveries, go to these stores, price-match, and be on your way. So yeah, basically think of when Best Buy had to compete with Compusa and Circuit City back in the day...imagine those big box stores all merged together and then make them a million, billion times more nerdy and niche.

Let's see, what else...oh yeah, they both have Apple products/sections, but I guarantee all their actually knowledgable staff will judge you for that in varying degrees...which begs the question, if you guys are so awesome and knowledgable at this stuff, why the fuck are you working retail?

Just sharing tidbits for the viewers who aren't familiar with either. 

P.S., Both stores online stores/sites majorly suck (and are super-dated...like the same site they were more or less from twenty years ago) which I've always found odd given their nature. And both are the only places I ever see Bawls for sale.

Edited September 22, 2016 by Potanical Pardon

[benteen]

I thought the episode was good and picked up to very good at the end.  Though I'm still confused as to certain things that are going on.  Good to see Tyrell back and I'm glad that he and Elliot are two separate people.

Liked the reveal that the FBI knew about fsociety for a while.  I could have done without the 80 minutes it seemed to take to see what Darlene was looking at.  Hilarious that dumbass Ollie ended up on that chart.  I'm convinced the Dark Army hasn't killed Ollie because they think it would be more of a punishment to America to keep him alive.

Did Leon kill Mobley and Trenton at the end?

[Cardie]

5 hours ago, green said:

She did ask if he had been with Elliot when he woke up so that had to be at least a day later probably. 

I wasn't sure that Elliot was awake yet, since Angela wanted to be the first person he saw. But perhaps he had awakened and Tyrell was instructed to steer clear and call her when that happened.

[Neurochick]

6 hours ago, Anela said:

Joanna is just... wow. He lost his wife and a baby, all because of her and her husband. I can't get behind her. 

I know, I can't stand Joanna; I wish she'd disappear.  She looked like a low rent Angelina Jolie. 

I gasped seeing Leon in the end, I guess Whiterose got him out of jail too.

I laughed at the "USA Network" references when the FBI was talking to Darlene.  "Burn Notice" and "Your character isn't welcome."

Someone on Tumblr commented on the dream Elliot had where you see a building blowing up in the background, the scene where everybody was sitting at a table.  So that building blowing up was in his mind the whole time.

Edited September 22, 2016 by Neurochick

[morgankobi]

6 hours ago, yourmomiseasy said:

His name is Leon.

His name was Robert Paulson.

 

Sorry. Couldn't resist :)

[kat165]

I was confused during the previouslies, to say nothing of most of the episode. I don't recall seeing some of those scenes shown, particularly the one where Joanna or Tyrell throws divorce papers at the other. If they were contemplating divorce why Joanna's concern for him now?

The chart Dom showed Darlene: how did the FBI come up with some of those connections. The lawyer
lady at Evil Corp, Gideon, the guy who punched Joanna/whose wife Tyrell killed (Scott?) - was he on
there? Elliot, how is he on their radar?  Or Tyrell for that matter.

The whole scene between Tyrell and Elliot in that warehouse. Towards the end there was some confusing
conversation between Elliot and Tyrell and then a bit later between Angela and Tyrell that made it seem
like Tyrell is just another of Elliot's personnas. Lots of "we" talk. And the way Mr. Robot kept glitching
in/out of focus after Tyrell shot Elliot. If Elliot was dying I could see why that was happening but it was also happening during some of that "we" conversation.

A gut shot is pretty serious. Why was Angela saying when he comes out of it let it be me he sees firs?. So was the shot a very realistic hallucination? Does the glitching of Mr. Robot relate to the glitching we saw a few eps back that was never followed up on?

Where/when did we see the fish, QWERTY?

I'm so tempted to watch this again but I don't know if I can sit through the absolutely deadening Darlene/Dom scenes. Those 2 bore the crap out of me.

Altogether a very unsatisfying episode. Nice to see Trenton and Mobley at the end. I was alarmed when the credits started rolling and there was like 5 minutes still left, thinking this is the shortest ep we've had all seasons and no questions were answered, for me at least.

Angela and Tyrell speaking did not make Tyrell any realer for me. If the shooting is some sort of hallucination/alter killing then that could really have been Elliot. And if so, is Elliot the original personality? Although I'm not buying Tyrell being an alter since we've seen much that doesn't support that fact.

What exactly definitely supports that Tyrell is "alive" (a separate person)?

[Primetimer]

Did it rely on English majors to do the rest? Sarah D. Bunting de-versifies the season finale.

View the full article

[morgankobi]

6 minutes ago, kat165 said:

 

What exactly definitely supports that Tyrell is "alive" (a separate person)?

Here are two for people thinking he's always been an alter (and yes, they are out there):

-The FBI has pictures of both Eliot and Tyrell on their map.

-The police, as seen on tv by other people, are looking for Tyrell. During this time, Eliot has been arrested, on trial, and in jail for a crime. If he was Tyrell, they would have known they had him.

 

If the question is how do we know he's not a personality added later (was real, now not):

-Mr. Robot's reaction to Eliot confronting him about lying that he had killed Tyrell is clear.

-I would also say that the amount of work that has been done while Eliot was away would also support it. (He hasn't been out of jail that long.)

-The way Esmail writes Eliot and the show, we are often confused when Eliot is and find things out when he does. He just found out Tyrell was real, so we did too.

[Misstify]

I am not sure I believe Tyrell is real at this time.  He certainly once was alive; there are pictures of him.  But is he alive now, or an alter based on a once-alive man?  Was Elliot really shot, or has something else happened to him that he has interpreted as being shot?  I just don't know.  That shot of the three of them, Elliot in between Mr. Robot and Tyrell...that is the main thing that keeps me wondering.

As for the epilogue, that was a major Lost vibe, to the point of making me think it's a joke!  "Do you have the time?"  Really?  And they are going to un-do everything?  I think on one level, Trenton/Tanya does have the decryption key as hincandenza described, and can undo the hack itself.  But there was an implication that they could undo everything...as in, all the chaos that's happened...which implies time travel, bolstered by Leon's comment.  That's the part that I think might be a joke, a teasing Lost reference, or...maybe not??

[Neurochick]

5 minutes ago, Misstify said:

That shot of the three of them, Elliot in between Mr. Robot and Tyrell...that is the main thing that keeps me wondering.

Me too, I thought, the real person is in the middle and the alters are on either side. 

[kat165]

Thank you, Morgan. I think the two separate FBI pictures works for me the most. I've always thought Tyrell was real, but this ep had me questioning it.

And now I'm back to wondering, thanks Misstify. :) Good question. I also got the vibe that the "undo everything" could apply to more than just the hack.

[yourmomiseasy]

1 hour ago, kat165 said:

I was confused during the previouslies, to say nothing of most of the episode. I don't recall seeing some of those scenes shown, particularly the one where Joanna or Tyrell throws divorce papers at the other. If they were contemplating divorce why Joanna's concern for him now?

They weren't.  Joanna gave those divorce papers to her boyfriend (I think maybe for his birthday) to appease him because she didn't show up for a party and he wanted to introduce her to his friends and go public with their relationship.  He's kind of dim and she's obviously been playing him the entire time, so who knows if the papers are real.

Edited September 22, 2016 by yourmomiseasy

[kat165]

Thank you, yourmom. I remember that scene now. I mistook the bf for Tyrell or they cut to him right afterwards.

[Sydka]

At the end of the Tyrell-Angela phone call, my first thought was, "Angela and Tyrell must die."  I may be a tad too attached to Elliot.  :)

The FBI still thinks Tyrell is the mastermind behind the hack!  If Darlene keeps her mouth shut like Mobley did, she may make it out of that building. 

This episode was far less frustrating than previous episodes have been, perhaps because we got a surprise (Elliot was shot) but not a twist or cliffhanger per se (we know Elliot is not dead).  I might actually be okay until whenever Season 3 appears.

[Milaxx]

11 hours ago, atlantaloves said:

Okay people, help me on this one, Tyrell is really alive right, not an alter of Elliott?...I am so confused, I really really thought I had all his alters figured out...Damn it. Set me straight friend! Thanks.

Yes Tyrell is alive and not an alter. He shot Elliot to wound. This is in comparison to Mr.Robot's fake shooting of Elliot in the head which would have been fatal. I think the point is to let us know that one of the fail safes to insure things went as planned was do whatever it takes to stop Elliot's good persona from taking over and stopping Stage 2.

9 hours ago, hincandenza said:

I'm pretty sure she says it explicitly: she thinks they have a way of regenerating the keys.  Basically, the fsociety hack was an "irreversible" encryption of all the E-Corp data, which has the same impact as deleting it but with the possibility- if you still have the encryption key- of decrypting it back to the original data.  This would undo the hack, and restore everything about E-Corp (minus whatever's been happening in the mean time these past 3 months). Of course, what we've seen of Price this season, I doubt he would want E-Corp restored to pre-5/9: this chaos is too juicy an opportunity to pass up!

Anyway, regarding Tanya's plan: there was a story about an online poker game that had a flaw, where some computer people realized that they could tell what the other cards were when playing and thus maximize their winnings.  The "hack" turned out to be that while the number of possible deck shuffles is unimaginably huge- something like 10^67, where it would take every computer on earth until long past the end of the universe to crack- the computer would use the system clock as the input seed.  A computer is very logical, so it can only create random numbers by using some external values that are random- such as the exact millisecond you the human choose to hit a key on the keyboard, or whenever a new hand deal is triggered in some poker game server.   Computers typically only expose system time to the millisecond for programs, and there are only 86,400,000 milliseconds in a day.  Since you're playing live you know the shuffle time was sometime in the last minute or so, you can lower those possible input seeds down to 200,000- the kind of number size a home computer can blow through in a few seconds.   Therefore, armed with knowledge of the kind of "random" number generator algorithm involved, you could feed into it every one of the ~200,000 possible input values, determine the resulting shuffle that would be done, and compare that to the cards you can see (your own two cards, and the three flop cards) to uniquely identify the exact "random" shuffle you got.  Now you know every other player's cards, and can almost never lose.

I'm wondering if "Tanya" is thinking along those lines: that perhaps they know both the date and time of creation of the hack keys that were used down to a few minutes, along with some common f.society passphrase or some other poor security practice, that helps them limit the possible inputs to the key generator program.  With that information, they could potentially get both immunity and plenty of start-over -in-hiding money by reverting the hack: compute the few billion or trillion possibilities on some machines to see which encryption key would have generated some encrypted fragments with known unencrypted sources..

 

I don't think i was satisfied with the finale.  I didn't hate it, but I'm going to have to think about it. It comes down to how much longer I'm willing to endure the "Tease", before we have to get some meaningful answers.  It'd be easier to take a cliffhanger if the seasons weren't so short and only once a year!

Good point. After all Trenton, Mobley and Romero were brought in for their specific skill sets. Romero a Phreaker, I forget Mobley's and Trenton is a Blackhat. If anyone could think of a way to reverse 5/9 it would be someone like Trenton. I think Leon has been sent by Whiterose to see if they will join them or if they will have to be killed.

3 hours ago, kat165 said:

I was confused during the previouslies, to say nothing of most of the episode. I don't recall seeing some of those scenes shown, particularly the one where Joanna or Tyrell throws divorce papers at the other. If they were contemplating divorce why Joanna's concern for him now?

The chart Dom showed Darlene: how did the FBI come up with some of those connections. The lawyer
lady at Evil Corp, Gideon, the guy who punched Joanna/whose wife Tyrell killed (Scott?) - was he on
there? Elliot, how is he on their radar?  Or Tyrell for that matter.

The whole scene between Tyrell and Elliot in that warehouse. Towards the end there was some confusing
conversation between Elliot and Tyrell and then a bit later between Angela and Tyrell that made it seem
like Tyrell is just another of Elliot's personnas. Lots of "we" talk. And the way Mr. Robot kept glitching
in/out of focus after Tyrell shot Elliot. If Elliot was dying I could see why that was happening but it was also happening during some of that "we" conversation.

A gut shot is pretty serious. Why was Angela saying when he comes out of it let it be me he sees firs?. So was the shot a very realistic hallucination? Does the glitching of Mr. Robot relate to the glitching we saw a few eps back that was never followed up on?

Where/when did we see the fish, QWERTY?

I'm so tempted to watch this again but I don't know if I can sit through the absolutely deadening Darlene/Dom scenes. Those 2 bore the crap out of me.

Altogether a very unsatisfying episode. Nice to see Trenton and Mobley at the end. I was alarmed when the credits started rolling and there was like 5 minutes still left, thinking this is the shortest ep we've had all seasons and no questions were answered, for me at least.

Angela and Tyrell speaking did not make Tyrell any realer for me. If the shooting is some sort of hallucination/alter killing then that could really have been Elliot. And if so, is Elliot the original personality? Although I'm not buying Tyrell being an alter since we've seen much that doesn't support that fact.

What exactly definitely supports that Tyrell is "alive" (a separate person)?

Joanna has been stringing Derek along. He wanted her to go to his birthday party. She gave him (likely) fake divorce papers.Once she figured out who was sending the gifts. She had a likely pansy to provide and alibi for Sharon Knowles murder.

Dom said they have been tracking them for years and have over 6k people assigned to this. So they have been slowly building their case for some time.

As for the we talk, it's we as in those in in the plan; Whiterose, MrRobot, Tyrell and now Angela. MrRobot is Elliot's only alter.

The gut shot was intended to wound not kill. Elliot have a bond. As children she was the one to find him when he ran away. She helped him get his job at Allsafe. she and Darlene found him when he realized who Mr.Robot was. That connection is comforting for him so it's important to his mental health that she be there when he wakes up. They may also feel that if anyone can keep him from trying to reverse stage 2, it will be Angela.

We saw Qwerty in Angela's apt. I think that was both Esmail letting us know Qwerty was okay, and a call back to the fish in the tank when Angela meet Whiterose. Seeing Qwerty alive and healthy reminds us that Angela is keeping this fish alive and working with WR for the good of all.

14 hours ago, green said:

So Phase 2 is just the continuation of destroying all of Evil Corp's paper records liked they were trying to do at the upstate NY facility way back when?  Why would Evil Corp truck them all into a central location that is also their corporate HQ?  Usually if something is threatened they disperse their assets so one hit can't take them down.  Also no way they have room for tons of boxes in a swank office building with no warehouse like storage area let alone it being climate controlled etc for said storage.

They destroyed the data copies at the NY facility. Price is striving to become god. He's used the hack become more powerful. He manipulated things so that Ecorp now has a rival monetary system similar to bitcoin. He is trying to rebuild the data files by gathering all the paper files together in that one building. Price wants to rebuild the system under his control. Whiterose is the one who doesn't want the system rebuilt, which is why she's working with Mr.Robot, Tyrell and now Angela. Since the only backup are those paper files, if they destroy those, then there will be no rebuilding. This is also why Trenton and Mobley may be in danger. If Trenton has figured out a way to reverse the hack she's a threat to Whiterose's project. 

I also don't expect to have a big time jump when the show returns. We opened up days after the 5/9 this season, and never leaped forward more than a months time throughout the season. Next season will likely be the same.

.

---------

I needed to rewatch and gather my thoughts. In terms of sci fi comparisons I'm think this show has more in common with Fringe and maybe 12Monkey's. Those pan ups to the sky, the lyrics in the Alf ep about shimmering skies. all point to something. I just haven't figured out what.  Mr.Robot put fall safes into the plan, knowing that the Elliot persona basically wants to do good and might balk at going through with this. I think the glitching occurs whenever Elliot gets too close to the truth an/or Mr. Robot and Elliot get close to merging into one person.         

I think it's easy to overlook scenes that feel boring but there is info packed into the scenes. The easiest take away is Dom trying to flip Darlene by playing on her loneliness.  Darlene not feeling special or loved growing up when she told that story about when she was 5. Dom is playing on that sense of isolation by showing just how far removed from the inner circle she was. There are also those who feel that Darlene may be the person who proposed to Dom many years ago. Note in the telling of that story she never mentions a gender and throughout the interrogation they refer to each other as "Hun, babe, etc.." I'm not 100% sold on that just yet, but given they are both Jersey gals and watched that Massacre video, the show is making a point that they have some sort of common bond. Also keep in mind on a show where anything that can be read, often has means, we got the birth dates and addresses of a lot of major players

  I think we did get several questions answered, but the show also brought up just as many if not more. My guess is Stage 2 is a fire sale both in the literal and figurative since. Literally because of the plans to implode that building and all the data files, figurative in the continued break down of major systems, an assault against the United States’ government, transportation, and economy by computer hackers. Much like the more common term meaning "everything must go." Any and all computer-based systems on vital networks. are the objective and would destroy the modern day life of America. The term "fire sale" is used to describe a hypothetical attack by computer hackers

Tyrell love Elliot like a worshiper loves his god. My guess Tyrell thought that he was the appointed one.  (I may have mentioned this in an earlier thread). He thought it was his role to ascend to the top at Ecorp, perhaps back by Whiterose. However Tryell is the pansy. The person that Price, Kwoles and even the FBI will see as the one behind this when in reality it's all Mr.Robot/Elliot and Whiterose behind this. Notice that neither White rose or Minister Zheng is on that FBI chart. (if someone has a better screen capture of that chart, it'd be helpful to confirm.)

Edited September 22, 2016 by Milaxx

[Sydka]

I often get the Fringe vibe from this show too, Milaxx, which is why I'm hoping the (somewhat popular) alternate universe version of Mr. Robot is not Sam Esmail's actual plan.  Fringe did it so well.  I don't think anyone can top it.

Edited September 22, 2016 by Sydka
correction

[Milaxx]

Last night I got more of a 12 Monkey's vibe, but I think certain aspects of Fringe apply. 

[kat165]

God bless you, Milaxx. Thank you for answering my post (and others) item by item. Such a relief not to have to sit
through Dom and Darlene again to get some enlightenment. You've made my day!

Ok, now I might have to rewatch just to see QWERTY!

Fringe and 12 Monkeys are 2 of my favorite shows.

Great insight about the glitching. Although I'm still hoping for another alter (but not Tyrell).

I never would have got that Darlene was the person who proposed to Dom years ago. I've never gotten the sense that they knew each other prior to the hack. I thought that hon/babe crap was just posing/wiseass remarks and NJ talk (I live in Jersey but don't use those terms although I know plenty around here who do).

Sydka, I wish I got more of a Fringe vibe from this show. I never get a Fringe vibe from this show. Fringe is my favorite all time show ever. I was heartbroken when it ended and the way it ended. I've since made up my own ending which I like much better. :) They did do the alternate universe so well. I also don't think it could be done any better.

[hincandenza]

Was reading the comments here after the Previously.TV article, and was struck by the "Is Tyrell real" comments.  While I think he is both real and currently alive, the fact that we are still questioning it made me realize that you could look at this picture:

and literally say "the father... the son... and the holy ghost".  Even the framing of it reminds me strikingly of da Vinci's "Last Supper", where all the lines of architecture point down into Elliot's head at the center of it all.  Messianic delusions would certainly fit Elliot's psyche profile at this point- not to mention Rami Malek's Egyptian heritage making Jesus comparisons even easier- and perhaps we should consider Wellick as an apostle.  Wellick's behavior was so strange to me: since he's "come into the fold" at the end of last season, he speaks in hyperbole.  He thinks they have "become like gods", he "loves" Elliot to the point of sobbing, he falls into tears around him and rants like a zealot... it's all very True Believer.  Which I suppose would cast Angela as the Magdalene character at the end, converted to true believer herself, and the feminine presence to be there when Elliot awakens.

It's just a stray (and crazy!) thought, but I wouldn't put it past Esmail to intentionally put in these themes, either for the sake of the "poetry" of it, or as a potential real plot point.  This show does like to talk about "gods" an awful lot, and some of our season 3 speculation, well... you never know. :)  

[Misstify]

I've never watched Fringe.  Maybe I should.  I agree about seeing 12 Monkeys in it too, didn't think of that one.  I was thinking of the season of Lost "we have to go back" stuff (forget which season that was).  

The hon/babe stuff I thought was:  Dom starts out calling Darlene "hon" both because she's playing good cop and as a "we're both Jersey girls" thing.  Darlene finds this condescending and proceeds to call Dom "hon" and "babe" to retaliate/show that she isn't buying it.  With regard to the wall chart:  thoughts on whether Darlene was pissed to see who they thought was the ringleader?  Or was she shocked by it? 

[hincandenza]

1 minute ago, Misstify said:

I've never watched Fringe.  Maybe I should.  I agree about seeing 12 Monkeys in it too, didn't think of that one.  I was thinking of the season of Lost "we have to go back" stuff (forget which season that was).  

The hon/babe stuff I thought was:  Dom starts out calling Darlene "hon" both because she's playing good cop and as a "we're both Jersey girls" thing.  Darlene finds this condescending and proceeds to call Dom "hon" and "babe" to retaliate/show that she isn't buying it.  With regard to the wall chart:  thoughts on whether Darlene was pissed to see who they thought was the ringleader?  Or was she shocked by it? 

You must watch "Fringe"!  It's an amazing show, and John Noble as Walter Bishop deserved all the Emmys.  Pretty sure it's still got all 5 seasons on Netflix; it's a show where I watched the pilot when it first aired, and didn't stick around because it felt like an "X-Files" knock-off.  I later caught it on Netflix, and it was amazing.  But stick around past the first few "monster-of-the-week" type episodes, because it is so much more.  Gah, I simply love that show...

I think something interesting about the FBI's surprising competence (did Dom they say they'd been working for "years"?  I missed that; I'd have thought f.society was only on their radar for the last few months, and then jumped to "6,000" agents when 5/9 occurred) is that if you look closely at the composite wall chart (thanks to Reddit) Elliot is not identified as a member of f.soceity, and it seems they have him there as "previously incarcerated", and mostly meaningful because his sister is in f.society and he knows Angela and Tyrell.  So it looks like they have Darlene and the others pegged completely, but oddly don't seem to think her brother is a major player- much less the ringleader.  Also missing from the chart are WhiteRose and even Price in the "E-Corp" section.

[AliShibaz]

IMO, the best thing about this episode was the song, "The Moth Don't Care" by Aimee Mann. I had never before heard of Aimee Mann and I'm happy that to have learned about her. Apparently, her music has always been greatly admired by critics but she refused to take any B.S. from record companies and so she started her own record company and distribution business and has helped many other artists in the same position achieve success.

When people refer to successful women, seems to me she must be a great example. I really like that song and plan to get the album its from.

P.S. I did get the album. It's from 2002 and titled, "Lost in Space". It's wonderful. I can't understand why I had never before heard of Aimee Mann.

Edited September 23, 2016 by AliShibaz

[Misstify]

10 minutes ago, AliShibaz said:

IMO, the best thing about this episode was the song, "The Moth Don't Care" by Aimee Mann. I had never before heard of Aimee Mann and I'm happy that to have learned about her.

The soundtrack to the movie Magnolia is mostly Aimee Mann.  I don't think there's a direct line from Mr. Robot to Magnolia, but given the number of other movie references, it's worth a passing thought.  This song wasn't in Magnolia, so maybe it's too much of a stretch to connect to the movie with a different Aimee Mann song.

[Milaxx]

Thanks for the graphic, I have a copy but it's not as good as this. The FBI has done a good job but they are still missing a lot of important players. There's no mention of Whiterose not to mention Price or Minister Zheng. I can't quite make it out but Trenton is either that blurry picture branched off of Mobley or not mentioned at all. Basically they don't know as much as they think they know.

As to whether or not Dom was lying about Romero, I don't think It matters. Remember Whiterose doesn't believe in accidents and her reach is long. Much like that "plane accident" of the guy who tried to stop her project.

hincandenza - I've seen that trinity comparison before. It actually makes sense.