S03.E12: Resistance

[ottoDbusdriver]

Episode Description:

Chandler returns to America to find out what has really been happening.

Note: The episode description comes from the TNT web site -- and is probably the vaguest episode description in the history of this show.

[ottoDbusdriver]

How did the NJ get the Hainan across the Pacific and no one on the mainland knew about ?  They would have had to refuel/resupply in Hawaii, wouldn't someone have reported back that there were two destroyers heading across the Pacific ?

It takes 2 weeks to get across the Pacific, and also takes 2 weeks for Tex/Kara/Prez to go from St. Louis to San Diego -- heck it only took them one day to go from St. Louis to Texas.  Sure they were dodging roadblocks, but that seems excessive no wonder they ran out of food.  It's not like traffic was slowing them down.

Shipping people across country in un-airconditioned, unventilated boxcars seems ridiculously stupid -- you would lose a lot of people along the way since those boxcars would turn into ovens.  Were they just shipping random individuals/families (why was that one guy wearing a suit ? Did they pick him up on his way to the office ?) to operate the power plants in Texas ?  Don't you need people who know what they are doing to run something like that.

And what was the train engineer blowing his horn for constantly ? There weren't any crossings in sight.

So basically 'The Last Ship' has turned into 'Under Siege 2: Dark Territory'.

Shaw must have purchased the jump-to-conclusions mat from 'Officespace' -- oh the train has gone missing, the Nathan James must be reponsible.  That would be the NJ that she thought that they just sank, so break out the divers.  Do they not have any functioning aircraft/helicopters in San Diego to do overflights ?  You know, to check on the sunken wreckage of the NJ or provide air support for this super valuable train and its cargo.  And then again at the end she basically concludes that Castillo is dead -- based on zero evidence.  Who writes this crap ?

How does Shaw have any power/leverage over the regional governors ?  Yet they all seem to obey her as arbitrator for dispute resolutions.  That makes absolutely no sense at all, yet she still seems to be in command of deadly weaponry which also makes no sense.  Does Shaw have codes for the nukes too ?
 

[iMonrey]

Does anyone else think that Texas regional leader lady looks like Ana Gasteyer? I keep waiting for her to bust out a Martha Stewart impression. And why the hell does she keep zipping back and forth between St. Louis and Texas? The writers know those are two different places right? I'd also like to know if there's any significance to the fact that this season's two main villains have been China and Texas.

The way the train managed to stop mere inches from the explosives was groan worthy. And Tex got the living shit kicked out of him and had his face smashed through broken class and came away with nary a scratch. It's official, he's super human.

I'm not even going to get into the colossal coincidence of Kara and Tex running into Chandler's away team.

I don't know about you but I don't have a whole lot of confidence in this new president. I barely had any in Michener and this guy came out of nowhere. What are his credentials and who's to say  he would be any better a leader than Shaw or the regional leaders? He doesn't seem all that impressive to me. I take it I'm supposed to be all rah-rah America but let's face it, I'm not sure at this point Shaw doesn't have the better idea.

Edited September 5, 2016 by iMonrey

[oakville]

There are many valid questions about tonight's episode.

I can't believe General Bradlee switched sides 3 times in two weeks.

It would be interesting to see how Castillo came to power ? What did he do before the flu? He seems to be a mobster.

How did the radar not detect two ships? Did they put a marker on the heinan?

The show never really explained how they got the power & basic utilities restored so quickly across the USA. Were those people in the train utility workers & their families?

It's a big mystery as to how the coup leaders organized the revolt. I thought Allison worked for Oliver in St Louis before the flu.

I enjoyed Kara & Danny Green's reunion. Chandler continues to be awesome.

I loved it when Chandler told Bradlee to report to the Commander in Chief, Oliver!

I also loved the part where Oliver is back on the Nathan James.

This is a much more entertaining show than Fear the Walking Dead.

What happened to the captured Chinese crew on the Heinan? Were they killed when the ship was blown up.  ?

[TV Anonymous]

So the authentication for the missile is the finger prints of any two persons? That Colonel, was he not a Marine and the defense attache in Bogota, Colombia? :-)

With all the Navy porn the show shows us in the last three seasons, too bad it does not include Army. I threw up in my mouth a bit looking at the General not fastening his collar and at the full-color SSI on the ACU.

So the chain of command in Castillo's Army is General (O-10), then Lieutenant (O-3)? Nobody in between? Okay then...

Edited September 5, 2016 by TV Anonymous

[ottoDbusdriver]

The part that really made me laugh was when Chandler was interrogating Castillo and Castillo mentions that the great Tom Chandler saved the day with the cure but didn't do much on the follow-up because people needed food, water and Wi-Fi.  Wi-Fi ?  Are you fucking kidding me ?  Where exactly would people be going on the Internet ?  Browsing Amazon for deals on rationed cereal ?  Seriously ?

[thuganomics85]

Now that the bad guys plan is all laid out pretty much, I'm starting to wonder if maybe they only had Mark Moses for a limited amount of episodes and that's why Michener had to get offed, because I kind of feel like a lot of their plan would have still worked with Michener in charge.  Nothing against either Oliver or John Cothran Jr.'s performance, but he basically feels like he's become another Michener, and I'm just wondering what is the point if the President is basically going to be the same?

Tex/Foster happening to reunite with the Nathan James party was so obvious, but I guess it's cool to see the gang back together.  At least Tex reuniting with Chandler led to them finally mentioning the dearly departed Scott again.  But I swear, Tex looks like he's already moving past that and making eyes at Sasha.  Seriously, show, I fully admit that I think Bridget Regan is the greatest, but this really is getting into overkill territory when it comes to Sasha.

Either way, Chandler and the gang take out a train full of civilians being forced to work for food, and now capture Castillo.  I guess, one territory leader down, and three more, plus a Shaw to go?  Still not sure what the final plan is, but I'm sure they'll come up with one!

I don't care how many times it happens, I still crack up when Chandler's like "Slattery and I are going to be leading the away mission!", because I would really think it would be wise to keep at least one of them on the ship, incase things so south.  That's why you rarely saw both Picard and Riker exploring a mysterious planet together!  To be fair, I guess the other captain has basically taken that job now.

Who played Bentley, because he is someone I've seen in a lot of stuff.  I recognized Shaw's new solider buddy at least: Patrick St. Espirt, who useless is always showing up as either a military guy or a cop.

Considering that Sasha was apparently a crackerjack shot, I'm wondering why she didn't just snip the bomb from a distance, before the train got into the blast zone?

Season finale next week!  Can't wait to see how they get out of this one, and who the next villains will be (please let it be something random, like New Zealanders have been secretly creating the ultimate weapon!)

[Maverick]

 I'm sure it will be Iceland.  

[Lonesome Rhodes]

CNO captured Castillo and had total control of that depot/port and San Diego, or he did not.  There is zero indication that there was any significant military not under CNO's command.  Just who would have carried out the recon mission to identify the sunk destroyer?  Who reported to Shaw?  That operation would have been made to stand down in plenty of time.

How many times will our heroes refuse to fire personal arms immediately in the heat of a battle moment, or to take out even uniformed enemy before an NJ sailor pays with their life?  Even CNO refused to fire and he had scant seconds to get through to the engine's controls.  

Overlooking the absurdities, I was truly loving the dystopian sociological truths as they unfolded.  The mistrust and grabs for power amongst the regions was excellent and valid.  The 4-Star was the most correct if pragmatism was the goal.  CNO is the one fantasizing.  Anyway...really, really, strong exposition and TPTB deserve a ton of credit for going there. 

The NJ hit up the several Pilot fuel and food depots between Japan and California.  Too bad POTUS? and company couldn't even get a crumb from any land stores.

[oakville]

9 hours ago, ottoDbusdriver said:

The part that really made me laugh was when Chandler was interrogating Castillo and Castillo mentions that the great Tom Chandler saved the day with the cure but didn't do much on the follow-up because people needed food, water and Wi-Fi.  Wi-Fi ?  Are you fucking kidding me ?  Where exactly would people be going on the Internet ?  Browsing Amazon for deals on rationed cereal ?  Seriously ?

Castillo is a cartoon villain. If the internet is functioning, how could the Regional Leaders get away with kidnapping people & putting them in trains?

Sasha provided a explanation for the chaos. The regional leaders forced Michener to institute ration programs & the banks were closed , so people started to riot. The President had to order the troops to put down the riots. The hostage crisis in Asia was done as a plan between Peng & Shaw.

[oakville]

I liked Cobb on the NJ. She was asking so many questions. What's the California force? I loved Chandler's plan to smoke out Castillo. The rebel Captain( can't remember his name) said Chandler's plan was impossible. Chandler said nothing was impossible. Cobb  replies " Von Clausewith?". Slattery says no, Thomas W Chandler!. It was hilarious.

The show is so much fun to watch. You have to ignore the plot holes.

The scary part was how did AlisonShaw get access to the weapon systems? Isn't that only for Presidents? Did Shaw force Oliver to hand over the codes to her ?

I would love to see a final fight between Alison Shaw & Sasha.Sasha can do everything!

[ottoDbusdriver]

56 minutes ago, oakville said:

Castillo is a cartoon villain. If the internet is functioning, how could the Regional Leaders get away with kidnapping people & putting them in trains?

While Senator Beatty was an actual sitting Senator from Washington State, Castillo's job prior to the Red Flu was that he owned a limousine company (Shaw stated that during Episode 2 from this season).

[Joimiaroxeu]

Loved that callback to Soylent Green: "The cargo is people!" It wouldn't surprise me a bit if Alison started rounding up starving people to turn them into food. That was done on Z-Nation.

Quote

Does anyone else think that Texas regional leader lady looks like Ana Gasteyer?

Yes! I keep looking at her so hard even though I did check IMDb.

[oakville]

45 minutes ago, ottoDbusdriver said:

While Senator Beatty was an actual sitting Senator from Washington State, Castillo's job prior to the Red Flu was that he owned a limousine company (Shaw stated that during Episode 2 from this season).

Thanks! It's strange how a Limousine Company owner would be able to take control of several states.

The show hasn't explained what happened between the end of Season 2 & the beginning of Season 3. What percentage of the military was still functioning other than the Nathan James? Were they just waiting around for someone to be named President?

Who was giving orders during the red Flu? Why would anyone in the military listen to Castillo?. The army turned on him pretty quickly when Chandler showed up.

The show could have explored various sections of the military competing with each other to take charge. They would be more worthy adversaries than Castillo.

5 minutes ago, Joimiaroxeu said:

Loved that callback to Soylent Green: "The cargo is people!" It wouldn't surprise me a bit if Alison started rounding up starving people to turn them into food. That was done on Z-Nation.

Yes! I keep looking at her so hard even though I did check IMDb.

Wasn't the leader in Baltimore in Season 2, burning bodies for heat?

Whatever happened to her?

[Raja]

22 minutes ago, oakville said:

 

Wasn't the leader in Baltimore in Season 2, burning bodies for heat?

Whatever happened to her?

She was on the roof of a building and Captain Chandler had the drop on her. I can't remember if she went suicide or suicide by cop and forced another character to shoot her.

[Joimiaroxeu]

Quote

Wasn't the leader in Baltimore in Season 2, burning bodies for heat?

Okay, I'm getting my apocalyptic TV shows mixed up. Yeah, on this show someone was burning human bodies for heat and on Z-Nation there was a cannibal cult operating I think via a brothel. Still though, Alison wouldn't surprise me. It's a neat trick suspending the constitution so you can start up slavery again.

[iMonrey]

Quote

Tex/Foster happening to reunite with the Nathan James party was so obvious, but I guess it's cool to see the gang back together.

Yes, but when Chandler realized the cargo was people and they were all hopping into the jeep to race the train, Tex chose that very inopportune moment to yell "I missed you guys." Uh, maybe wait until lives aren't in peril before expressing the enthusiasm, dude. It came off badly, like "Ooh, people gonna die, I miss this shit."

[Dowel Jones]

If the James was 40 miles offshore when the Chinese destroyer was sunk, how did the StarTrek team get ashore? No helicopter anymore.

And, while we're standing in a heavily guarded depot, let's all take some time for a group reunion in plain view of anyone.

So the heads of the five families are already feuding, and even Allison Corleone can't quite keep them together. What was your grand plan again?

By the way, Sasha, firing a bullet into hard ground usually results in a ricochet, making anyone downrange an unfortunate target.

I did like the short, "Here is how you fire a pistol, Mr. President" lesson.

So you now have separate territories with, presumably, guards along each perimeter.  What are they guarding against? Other members of the previously US Army units?  Have they all been suddenly brainwashed to believe that they have to protect their own territory against the outsiders?  And not one soldier will ever talk to another soldier to see what's going on?  Meanwhile, the Canadians and Mexicans are no doubt looking on in total disbelief.

[xaxat]

One of the reasons I really liked the first two seasons was it's positive portrayal of the institution of the United States Military in the face of extraordinary obstacles. 

This season the writers totally chucked that in the trash. It's no longer a story about the Navy, it's all about Chandler. Only Tom Chandler is smart enough to figure out what is going on. (Remember when Chandler and Slattery would hash out strategy? Not so much any more. And it's Slattery's boat!)Only Tom Chandler is capable of standing up to tyrants. Only Tom Chandler can walk on water. 

I know it's common for post apocalyptic fiction to depict the decline of the military in step with society. But it's disappointing to see it on this show, which worked to avoid that cliche for the first two seasons. 

I did enjoy the reunion scenes.

Did the writers buy a bushel of fake mustaches? Because most of the characters introduced this season are twirling theirs hard.

[oakville]

1 hour ago, Joimiaroxeu said:

Okay, I'm getting my apocalyptic TV shows mixed up. Yeah, on this show someone was burning human bodies for heat and on Z-Nation there was a cannibal cult operating I think via a brothel. Still though, Alison wouldn't surprise me. It's a neat trick suspending the constitution so you can start up slavery again.

Yes, I remember that episode of Z Nation. The citizens on the train looked very passive. I don't understand how they could survive the Red Flu for over a year with no real government, yet after a few days of the Regional Leaders taking over, they are ready to be taken hostage for food. The Super Markets were operating in St Louis earlier in the season. Did no one keep any provisions at home?

9 minutes ago, xaxat said:

One of the reasons I really liked the first two seasons was it's positive portrayal of the institution of the United States Military in the face of extraordinary obstacles. 

This season the writers totally chucked that in the trash. It's no longer a story about the Navy, it's all about Chandler. Only Tom Chandler is smart enough to figure out what is going on. (Remember when Chandler and Slattery would hash out strategy? Not so much any more. And it's Slattery's boat!)Only Tom Chandler is capable of standing up to tyrants. Only Tom Chandler can walk on water. 

I know it's common for post apocalyptic fiction to depict the decline of the military in step with society. But it's disappointing to see it on this show, which worked to avoid that cliche for the first two seasons. 

I did enjoy the reunion scenes.

Did the writers buy a bushel of fake mustaches? Because most of the characters introduced this season are twirling theirs hard.

Agreed. It was disturbing that the military keeps switching sides every episode. I accept that some officers would defect & join Allison Shaw's regional leaders.

[Netfoot]

12 hours ago, thuganomics85 said:

But I swear, Tex looks like he's already moving past that and making eyes at Sasha.  Seriously, show, I fully admit that I think Bridget Regan is the greatest, but this really is getting into overkill territory when it comes to Sasha.

How could he not?  Not only is she fully trained at CQB, she's also a fully capable sniper too!  Jeez, I'm getting interested myself!

12 hours ago, thuganomics85 said:

That's why you rarely saw both Picard and Riker exploring a mysterious planet together!

Who?  <googling>

Oh, sorry.  And here I was thinking that Chandler/Slattery were doing a Kirk/Spock.  

[ottoDbusdriver]

9 hours ago, Netfoot said:

How could he not?  Not only is she fully trained at CQB, she's also a fully capable sniper too!  Jeez, I'm getting interested myself!

And she speaks multiple languages, and is a trained medic, and apparently read a copy of the Shock Doctrine (on how to fake a crisis and take advantage of said crisis).

And to think she started out as a diplomatic liaison to the Chinese government.

Edited September 6, 2016 by ottoDbusdriver

[JackONeill]

Kids sure grow fast on TV.

I think next season Tex's daughter will be flying the helicopter, Chandler's kids will each have their own aircraft carriers, and Kara's kid will be going to Jason Bourne's School of Espionage.

[TheRabbi]

Soldiers on the other side of our band of heroes are especially inept on this show, even when they have the element of surprise.

One more episode of this....I won't be back next season.

[Lonesome Rhodes]

I fully agree with the laughable portrayal of the seemingly non-existent military at the beginning of this season.  There had to be some very senior officers and we never even heard of their existence.  Now, we see there were a good number.  Chandler taking rank of CNO was a joke.   He was Chief of Staff.  Period.

However, with the dissolution of the USA as a going concern, all military were released from all oaths, as the 4-star argued in this ep.  I would have guessed that most would become strictly mercenary.  Those governors would have totally understood the need to create loyal security forces.  Those folks and their families would receive top priority for any and all necessities to engender loyal servitude, even if repugnant to those who lived at a prior time in our land when the Rule of Law prevailed.  

Not until the basics of life were secured could niceties like individual freedoms be reinstated.

[torqy]

16 hours ago, oakville said:

 If the internet is functioning, how could the Regional Leaders get away with kidnapping people & putting them in trains?

 

coughChinacough, coughIrancough for example...

[BasilSeal]

On 05/09/2016 at 4:13 AM, TV Anonymous said:

With all the Navy porn the show shows us in the last three seasons, too bad it does not include Army. I threw up in my mouth a bit looking at the General not fastening his collar

I think perhaps that was intentional, given that Bradlee wasn't a proper general but had been given a a battlefield promotion by Castillo who had murdered his original commanding officer. The military personnel who've gone over to Castillo are portrayed as a bit shoddy because their heart isn't really in it.

This show has a bit of a problem with the current scenario in that given its patriotic ideology and simplistic pro military stance it can't portray American servicemen as willing participants in the treachery of the regional governors, but it does need them to take orders from said governors because the governors wouldn't be able to do what they've done without full cooperation from the remnant of the military. However the show doesn't want to go down the road of having the NJ crew fighting and killing their fellow service men and women. You'll notice that all of the guys they killed on the train take down were militia men and not in uniform. All it takes for the soldiers at Castillo's base to switch to chandler's side is a pep talk from the man himself and a brief personal appearance from not president Fat Bloke. None of them, not one, thinks "bollocks to patriotism, i'm sticking with the governors and the opportunities they provide for personal enrichment and unlimited cheerio consumption"

So how will this play out? The regional governors are relying on the military to keep them in power, if all of them are going to say "fuck this, we're with Chandler, God bless American" next week's episode is going to be a short one.

On 05/09/2016 at 5:18 AM, thuganomics85 said:

Can't wait to see how they get out of this one, and who the next villains will be (please let it be something random, like New Zealanders have been secretly creating the ultimate weapon!)

My guess would be that they won't resolve this in just the one remaining episode, partly because it might take more than 40 minutes plus commercials for a group of a dozen or so men to retake control of the entire continental USA, and partly because if they did, what will they do next season? The appearance of yet another existential threat that can only be solved by a navy destroyer and some square jawed all American heroes via the medium of shooting people and blowing shit up would be a tad ridiculous even for this show. I'm thinking next series will be about restoring the president to his rightful position with the support of the NJ.

It might have made more sense to keep the Chinese destroyer, especially as they have Maylan and his crew to man it, it's not like the ploy fools Alison for very long and they could have achieved the same element of surprise by simply staying off shore and maintaining MCON, but now have double the potential fire power, but the show's called 'the last ship' so...

Edited September 6, 2016 by BasilSeal

[JackONeill]

I wonder how well this show is doing in the ratings? It's a little odd in that there's only ten episodes (I think) per season. After next week's show, that's 3 seasons BUT only 30 episodes. Trying to sell that into syndication could be tough. They almost have to keep filming new episodes to get it into reruns.

Edited September 6, 2016 by JackONeill

[TheRabbi]

There's been 13 episodes in each of the first 3 seasons. That is the pretty standard model for shows on cable networks these days, and even the big 4 networks are slowly starting to adopt more of these ideas.

Ratings are passable. They are down from last year, but everything is in today's digital age, so it's normal. Its about on par with The Strain on FX, another show that I watched the first 2 seasons of, but might be even worse than this. I made the rash judgement call to delete that from my series pass after the season 3 premiere.

Edited September 6, 2016 by TheRabbi

[Tarasme]

Wow- really good questions and criticisms from the forum again this week.

Though I have love in my heart for military servicemen, I am ignorant of most policies. The lack of radar/ sat imagery (just stay 40 miles off coast and no problems with being seen), air support, communication from outlying stations, etc. I can hand wave because I love this cast (even Dane but mostly Piper-Ferguson, Regan, Baldwin, Elmore, Foster, etc.) and I love their chemistry. Even Rohm, who- mostly- I would choose ear stabbing with rusty screwdriver to listening- I can tolerate because this summer ride has been pretty great.

Land team's witness of the Not!NJ explosion was too goofy- but I treasured the Greens' reunion. Also floved Tex + Chandler and their brief but pretty remarkable discussion of Rachel's death. For me, I think it points out the big glaring underlying reason for this season's flaws- no Rhona Mitra.

This show started as a good balance between doctor saves the world and military persistence/ where-with-all to accomplish the nuts and bolts of executing the task. Now, there's no equal casting or positive conflict (Scott and Chandler might be at odds, but they were always on the same team) to balance the Chandler show. Resulting in cartoonish villainy and not so realistic heroics.

Writing for Scott wasn't always awesome, but it did create a sum that- for me- was substantially better than it's parts. I still like the show because its still fun and gives me a cast that I really like to root for. Other than killing Tex(!), the Greens or Slattery, I've got no reason to go anywhere. :)

Edited September 6, 2016 by Tarasme

[preeya]

On Monday, September 05, 2016 at 8:04 AM, Raja said:

She was on the roof of a building and Captain Chandler had the drop on her. I can't remember if she went suicide or suicide by cop and forced another character to shoot her.

It was Alfre Woodard (Amy Granderson) who injected herself with something and committed suicide before Chandler could take her into custody.

[BasilSeal]

The more i think about it the more i'm going with there being a cliff hanger ending to the finale.
My totally uninformed prediction is : (hidden in case you don't want to read it, but it is just a pure guess)

Spoiler

 

that Team Chandler will score a victory, but not a decisive one. maybe take back the white house 2.0 in St Louis, but it will just be one step on reinstating federal control, meanwhile, Shaw was doing her "thinking evil thoughts" face at the end of this episode so is possibly considering chandler's greatest weakness at the moment, his family, who are out on their own somewhere not fully aware of the gravity of what's going on.

the season will end with Shaw revealing that she's holding grandpa chandler, the little chandlers and probably baby frankie as well as hostages. Leaving Chandler and the Greens a choice between their country and their families.

 

[iMonrey]

Quote

So the heads of the five families are already feuding, and even Allison Corleone can't quite keep them together. What was your grand plan again?

I'm not sure but I think there are only four regions, according to the map they showed. There were four "regional leaders" standing behind Shaw when she went on TV and announced the dismantling of the United States.

But your comment is on point, because if all the regions are dependent on oil from Texas then what was the point of splitting them up independently? If they still rely on one another to exist shouldn't they maintain unity? Shouldn't the other regions find their own sources of energy? Texas isn't the only state in the country that produces oil. 

And are all of the regions governed by evil people? Shouldn't at least one region be benevolent? Otherwise, what is the point of building walls between the regions? There's no motivation to go from Region West to Region North if they both suck.

What we seem to have here is a threadbare framework for a post-apocalyptic world based on overused tropes we've all seen before, but I don't think a lot of effort or thought has gone into writing this thing. It's a handy enough background for the weekly action-adventure porn but when you really pick at the premise it quickly collapses. A country that has lost 90% of its population shouldn't be running out of food six months later. I get that manufacturing and delivering of food stuffs would be hindered a great deal but there should also be an enormous surplus. Doomsday preppers would have been all over this shit the minute the virus was first discovered.

[BasilSeal]

2 minutes ago, iMonrey said:

A country that has lost 90% of its population shouldn't be running out of food six months later

I don't think they were, the food shortages have been created by the governors to control people and engineer the coup in the first place.

[iMonrey]

Yes but that's not realistic. The people would have gotten to the food and hoarded it before the military could swoop in and steal it. The military couldn't go door to door and demand everyone hand over their food. People are armed to the teeth in this country. What's left of the military would not find an overly compliant civilian population to enslave, exploit or control the way this show is portraying it.

[BasilSeal]

8 minutes ago, iMonrey said:

Yes but that's not realistic. The people would have gotten to the food and hoarded it before the military could swoop in and steal it.

Hmm, they've had 6 months of rationing and restricted supply, some will be hoarding and some will have guns but if the governors have control over distribution and storage of food, hoarded food will be running low, it's difficult to build up a hoard when you're on rations restricting what you can purchase. some will still have food but the majority won't be that well prepared, bear in mind they've had what? a year of the actual epidemic before this so even the prepers would be getting down their stores by now. also, having a gun is one thing, wanting to go head to head with a large force of trained military personnel is another. most would stand down before engaging in a fire fight that's likely only to end one way. I agree it wouldn't be practical to take people's private supply of food, but how much food would people have left at this point?

In fairness, this world is drawn with a very broad brush and isn't always as well fleshed out as one would want, but given the nature of the show, I'm not expecting Tolstoy here.

[iMonrey]

I just don't think it would be nearly as easy for Shaw and her goon squad to take over the country like that. The plot is dependent upon a compliant military (what's left of it) and a compliant populace, not to mention a compliant corporate world. The military may have superior weaponry but the organization itself would be in utter chaos, especially after all the generals have been murdered. Service men and women would be deserting like crazy. Anarchy would rule the day, not this systematic takeover by a few well positioned entities. 

And for the record, I'm not expecting Tolstoy either. I'm just asking for more than a flimsy backdrop regurgitated from every other post-apocalyptic genre story ever written. The show wasted most of this season on a story about Evil China which now seems to be largely irrelevant while giving scant attention to the world building  back in America they expect us to jump into now without questioning it. 

Edited September 6, 2016 by iMonrey

[BasilSeal]

13 minutes ago, iMonrey said:

And for the record, I'm not expecting Tolstoy either. I'm just asking for more than a flimsy backdrop regurgitated from every other post-apocalyptic genre story ever written. The show wasted most of this season on a story about Evil China which now seems to be largely irrelevant while giving scant attention to the world building  back in America they expect us to jump into now without questioning it. 

I suspect we may see a more fleshed out version of the post plague America in the next season, whether it's convincing or not remains to be seen.

 

14 minutes ago, iMonrey said:

I just don't think it would be nearly as easy for Shaw and her goon squad to take over the country like that. The plot is dependent upon a compliant military (what's left of it) and a compliant populace, not to mention a compliant corporate world.

It depends really (on a lot of stuff we haven't really been told, admittedly), but in a world where 90% of the population are gone. there would be vast amounts of property, real estate, goods and assets with no legitimate owner. If someone organised even a small private militia, i think it's conceivable that they could begin to take control of these assets and through control of these assets gain power, influence and thus a larger following.

In the absence of a functioning society such people *could* move in and take control of the levers of civic society, food and fuel delivery, power and water. there may be food in ware houses, but the corporate entities that own it may no longer exist, men with guns move in and take control of it in the name of 'maintaining order', all that food is theirs now, they use the supply of food and outright intimidation to control the key workers like truck drivers, power workers. now they are in charge of the logistics of supply, and so on.

I tend to agree that the writers have failed to flesh out the wider universe of TLS, and that we haven't been told enough to build a vivid picture of what the US is like in this world, OTOH i don't think the scenario itself is completely unrealistic.

[Netfoot]

3 hours ago, BasilSeal said:

in a world where 90% of the population are gone. there would be vast amounts of property, real estate, goods and assets with no legitimate owner. If someone organised even a small private militia, i think it's conceivable that they could begin to take control of these assets and through control of these assets gain power, influence and thus a larger following.

We shouldn't forget that the goods and assets will rapidly decay, without anyone to take care of them.  Take it from me, The Bush takes over surprisingly quickly.  In six months, much of the food in stores will be spoilt, and even gasoline has a shelf-life.  

[millennium]

All I could think during this episode is that the show's creators bit off much more they can chew.   They're hoping a few silly armed clashes involving Chandler and Alison Shaw's forces will serve as a credible exemplar of a whole nation in turmoil, and it's just not cutting it.   Not even close.

If the United States were suddenly dissolved, the nation's top military figure believed to be assassinated, and control of the country handed over to a small band of bickering assholes, it would be like ringing the dinner bell for other nations -- China, Russia, or whoever -- to attempt an invasion, even if just to get their hands on resources.   Hell, China even helped Alison Shaw in her attempt to take out the NJ.  Sure, Alison, whatever you need.  Happy to help.  Hope you like Chinese food.

The slo-mo reunion scene at the end was worthy of Police Squad. 

Rhona Mitra was smart to get out.

Edited September 7, 2016 by millennium

[preeya]

6 minutes ago, millennium said:

All I could think during this episode is that the show's creators bit off much more they can chew.  

The slo-mo reunion scene at the end was worthy of Police Squad. 

Rhona Mitra was smart to get out.

 

I think you may be right.  Cannot fathom how they'll proceed with the mess they created.

[Dowel Jones]

1 hour ago, preeya said:

Cannot fathom how they'll proceed with the mess they created.

Chandler and Tex scrounge up some parts in San Diego, and with Sasha's newfound engineering expertise, cobble together the world's first 4WD Burke-class destroyer.  They then proceed up and down the highways and byways of the former USA, fighting for truth, justice, and unlimited Cheerios.  Celebrity cameos abound in each episode.

[iMonrey]

Quote

In the absence of a functioning society such people *could* move in and take control of the levers of civic society, food and fuel delivery, power and water. there may be food in ware houses, but the corporate entities that own it may no longer exist, men with guns move in and take control of it in the name of 'maintaining order', all that food is theirs now, they use the supply of food and outright intimidation to control the key workers like truck drivers, power workers. now they are in charge of the logistics of supply, and so on.

Yes but this would likely be happening at the local level on a massive scale. A centralized "militia" or other government entity would not be able to move in and take control of entire cities, states or regions. They would be met with armed resistance at every locality they entered. This is exactly the kind of scenario that "gun enthusiasts" are always pushing: what happens if society suddenly breaks down? We would need to protect ourselves. So yes there would be militias but there would be hundreds, even thousands at them, all formed at the local level. And grocery stores wouldn't be the first thing they cleaned out: gun stores would. 

Someone like Shaw wouldn't be able to just go on TV and tell the world "OK, the president killed himself and the new president is a terrorist so we're suspending the US constitution and the regional leaders are taking over," and the populace would just go "OK then." That would just make everything 1000 times worse. The populace would go nuts not just lay down and go "whatever, just give me food and I'll be your slave."

It would make a lot more sense for Shaw and her regional goons to maintain the pretense of a working government and try to pull the strings from behind the scenes. You know: kind of how corporate America does today.

Quote

All I could think during this episode is that the show's creators bit off much more they can chew.   They're hoping a few silly armed clashes involving Chandler and Alison Shaw's forces will serve as a credible exemplar of a whole nation in turmoil, and it's just not cutting it.   Not even close.

Yes! Thank you, that's what I'm getting at. The backdrop they are using services the plot so there isn't much effort put into it beyond that. It all feels very cliched and convenient. 

[omnione]

On 9/4/2016 at 11:18 PM, thuganomics85 said:

Considering that Sasha was apparently a crackerjack shot, I'm wondering why she didn't just snip the bomb from a distance, before the train got into the blast zone?

The train would have still needed to stop anyway.  Otherwise, the train and its human cargo would derail and kill a bunch of people anyway.  Sasha would've had to snip the connection without detonating the bomb.  I don't know anything about bomb design or sniper techniques, but that strategy sounds impossible especially in the heat of the moment.

[omnione]

Thoughts:

1.  Kara crying hysterically while running into the sea after the supposed destruction of the NJ was cringe-worthy.

2.  Danny reuniting with Kara seemed too coincidental especially when the rest of the team was traveling in one group.  I think the show was better when Kara and Danny's relationship wasn't a liability to the crew on a weekly basis.

3.  You figure that the the remaining armed forces could tell the difference between a Chinese ship and the Nathan James.  Also, I can't buy the incompetence of verifying the NJ's destruction by having some random Jeeps look at the destruction from afar late at night.    You figure that a competent crew would've found about the Henan earlier in the day, leading the food storage facility being put down on lockdown.

4.  I do agree that too much time was spent in China/SE Asia if the goal was to have the NJ  retake America.  We're starting to see the budgetary issues here because we haven't seen enough of this ruined America to support the regional leaders coming to power.  Season 2 did a better job by showing the run down SE and Baltimore.

This storyline could have worked in a full 22-26 episode order.  Too much detail was left out by trying to condense the conflict into a shorter summer series.  We needed more episodes to see the NJ crew working with local resistance leaders (like season 2) to illustrate the regional leaders' deception.  I found it ironic when the other Captain Neyland pointed out that the whole endeavor was impossible.  He was right, no single crew can take down a government by themselves.  The show's lack of explanation makes it sound like the crew is omnipotent.

5.  These warlords have a lot of power, but have the worst security.  I realize that 90% of the population is dead, but President was captured by people going through the backdoor with the exit strategy being a single pickup driven by a teenager.  This week, you can approach a major base with a small team without being detected.

6.  Chandler must be the spiritual predecessor of Captain Kirk.  I don't know much about the armed forces, but it seems a big risk to have the CNO go on so many life-threatening missions without much damage.  I realize it's the post-apocalypse, but still.

7.  I think the inherent issue is that the writers want a relatable America in turmoil.  The problem is that the protagonists typically work on water.  The writers want the NJ crew to leading the charge in salvaging the world despite the crew not really much of a terrestrial force by nature.

I still enjoy the show for the action, tone, characters, general premise, and general plot.  But I feel the Michael Bay-ness of the show is starting to show up in the writing.   That forces me to have to turn off my brain a little like during his other works.

[millennium]

12 hours ago, iMonrey said:

 

Yes! Thank you, that's what I'm getting at. The backdrop they are using services the plot so there isn't much effort put into it beyond that. It all feels very cliched and convenient. 

My recurring thought was "the A-Team."