Small Talk: Pistols at Dawn

[Meredith Quill]

The Small Talk topic is for:

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This is NOT a topic for actual show discussion. When you want to talk about the show:

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Happy trails beyond Small Talk!

[luckyroll3]

On 3/3/2017 at 4:43 PM, Lord Donia said:

My personal animosity towards Sarandon prohibits me from watching, but I'm debating whether or not that boycott extends to reading the forums. Hm. It's a classic Lenten dilemma.

 

On 3/3/2017 at 7:24 PM, marceline said:

I feel the same way about Sarandon but I'm not going to deprive myself of our brilliant and witty fellow posters. I want to see what people say. 

 

16 hours ago, vb68 said:

This is right up my alley despite the Sarandon factor. Looks like good campy fun.

Why does everyone hate Susan Sarandon?  I fully admit that I don't really keep up with what goes on with celebrities.

[Nordly Beaumont]

Quote

Nordly Beaumont -I'm a huge BD fan too, what's some of your fave films?

My very favorite is Dark Victory. In my small circle of friends if someone says they're sick - the first thing we ask is "can you still feel the sun on your hands?" I'm also always telling them "Darling, poor fool, can't you see I'm in love with you?"

I also love "Old Acquaintance" - that scene where Bette calmly strolls across the room and shakes the crap out of Miriam Hopkins, strolls back to the door and snips "Sorry" is GOLD!

And I do love Whatever Happened to Baby Jane. It was the first Bette Davis movie I ever saw. I was sort of young for it (I actually had to go to bed before it was over! But mom woke me up a bit early so she could describe the ending before I went to school - and MAN I could not wait to tell all my friends about it!)

Jezebel is another I can watch over and over. 

So what are your faves, Valny? I wish I had box DVD sets! Then there would always be something to watch!

Edited March 7, 2017 by Nordly Beaumont

[Adultosaurus]

12 hours ago, luckyroll3 said:

 

 

Why does everyone hate Susan Sarandon?  I fully admit that I don't really keep up with what goes on with celebrities.

People let her opinion of political matters that is opposite to theirs cloud their notion that she's an actor.  People also forget that as a taxpaying, voting citizen, she has as much say as they do.

[SWLinPHX]

...the film "Mommie Dearest".   It is a huge cult favorite among gay men and so many things like the sink of ice cubes she emerged her face in, to the staircase in her house, the cleaning, etc.

Edited March 7, 2017 by SWLinPHX

[Writing Wrongs]

All About Eve is my fave Bette Davis movie. It's just so bitchy and perfect. The dialogue is great. I was looking at a list of Joan Crawford movies and I have only seen Mildred Pierce and Whatever Happened To Baby Jane? I've seen a bunch of Bette's movies.

[psychoticstate]

I love All About Eve and Now, Voyager.  I'll admit that I love the campy awesomeness of A Stolen Life and Another Man's Poison (which I can watch over and over, despite Bette chewing the scenery.) 

If anyone hasn't watched many Crawford movies, I would suggest the obvious Mildred Pierce (she's phenomenal and I love her banter with Eve Arden), Sudden Fear, The Women (amazing ensemble cast and a movie I have watched many, many times), A Woman's Face, Possessed (the 1931 film with Gable is stunning and they are both beautiful together) and Possessed from 1947, where she plays a mentally ill woman.   She didn't make a lot of straight up comedies but Susan and God and They All Kissed the Bride are both great fun and she looks gorgeous in both (before the 50s when her look hardened and almost became masculine.) 

[CraftyHazel]

I had to come in here as a huge fan of Bette Davis and a moderate fan of Joan Crawford.  I have read probably every Bette Davis biography written, have been on a quest to see every movie of hers I can get my hands on...I'm definitely borderline obsessed.  To me, her best movie was "All About Eve", followed by "Now, Voyager" and "Dark Victory".  But I've liked her in most everything I have seen her in.  She was such a huge talent.

Now Joan, I love "Mild red Pierce" and "The Women", but I usually find her too obviously Joan Crawford.  I have the same problem with John Wayne and Jack Nicholson...I never see the character they are supposed to be, I see them AS that character, and it takes me right out of the movie experience. I find Joan oddly, almost pathetically likeable (despite the "Mommies Dearest" stories), especially after having read several biographies on her, too.  

What a great topic...Bette Davis and Joan Crawford!  I'm in seventh heaven!

[Valny]

On ‎3‎/‎6‎/‎2017 at 10:59 PM, Nordly Beaumont said:

My very favorite is Dark Victory. In my small circle of friends if someone says they're sick - the first thing we ask is "can you still feel the sun on your hands?" I'm also always telling them "Darling, poor fool, can't you see I'm in love with you?"

I also love "Old Acquaintance" - that scene where Bette calmly strolls across the room and shakes the crap out of Miriam Hopkins, strolls back to the door and snips "Sorry" is GOLD!

And I do love Whatever Happened to Baby Jane. It was the first Bette Davis movie I ever saw. I was sort of young for it (I actually had to go to bed before it was over! But mom woke me up a bit early so she could describe the ending before I went to school - and MAN I could not wait to tell all my friends about it!)

Jezebel is another I can watch over and over. 

So what are your faves, Valny? I wish I had box DVD sets! Then there would always be something to watch!

 

Great picks Nordly Beaumont.  Am I misremembering, I thought she slapped Hopkins in Old Acquaintence. I haven't seen it in a while so you probably know better.

Quote

So what are your faves, Valny? 

I could tell you my top three.  My very fave is a lesser known film, All This and Heaven Too. I highly recommend if anyone hasn't seen.  It's such a different role for BD, she acting is reserved and quiet... nothing like her more melodramatic roles where she's hand wringing,being a tough woman or wise cracking,etc.  I'd love to get the poster for it but I think it's one of the most unattractive movie posters I've seen.

Anyway, to round out my Top Three: The Old Maid and Now,Voyager. I love when she transformed from the frumpy painfully shy woman to the glamorous version in Now,Voyager. The shot getting off the boat of her shoes/legs then the camera movie up and seeing what she has become was classic.

I enjoy a lot of others like Marked Woman, That Certain Woman,The Letter,Jezebel, In This Our Life and of course Baby Jane and also one of her comedies with co-star James Cagney, The Bride Came C.O.D.  and the list goes on and on.
 

Quote

 

I had to come in here as a huge fan of Bette Davis and a moderate fan of Joan Crawford.  I have read probably every Bette Davis biography written, have been on a quest to see every movie of hers I can get my hands on...I'm definitely borderline obsessed.  To me, her best movie was "All About Eve", followed by "Now, Voyager" and "Dark Victory".  But I've liked her in most everything I have seen her in.  She was such a huge talent.

Now Joan, I love "Mild red Pierce" and "The Women", but I usually find her too obviously Joan Crawford.  I have the same problem with John Wayne and Jack Nicholson...I never see the character they are supposed to be, I see them AS that character, and it takes me right out of the movie experience. I find Joan oddly, almost pathetically likeable (despite the "Mommies Dearest" stories), especially after having read several biographies on her, too.  

What a great topic...Bette Davis and Joan Crawford!  I'm in seventh heaven

 

Marmiarmo-  me too, I have read a bunch of BD's bios(I own nine of them!)  Actually one of her bios I had taken out of the library and when I went to return it, I dropped it in a puddle so the pages got wet. I went home and dried them out with my hair dryer but when I returned it, they said it was damaged,(it wasn't that bad!)   so I would have to pay the cost, so I just said, let me just buy the book instead and so I have a hard cover library book called Dark Victory-The Life of Bette Davis added to my collection!  :)

I should be a walking encyclopedia on BD by now but my tiny brain is old and doesn't hold much info anymore, so the info goes in then out pretty fast. But I'll remember certain things, like I was shocked to find out that she had at least two abortions,(possibly three,but like I said, can't remember) But it was definitely more than one.

I like Joan Crawford too,but not as much as BD of course. She was quite good in Mildred Pierce(I have the movie poster) and there are a few more that I liked but would have to look up to tell you.  I have just one dvd box set of hers. 

Quote

I wish I had box DVD sets! Then there would always be something to watch!

  I do love my box sets!  I each Christmas I had asked for a different one, that's how you do it!  :)

Quote

What a great topic...Bette Davis and Joan Crawford!  I'm in seventh heaven.

  Me too!

Edited March 8, 2017 by Valny

[Deanie87]

I just posted this in the episode thread, but anyone who is interested in Old Hollywood should check out the You Must Remember This podcast by Karina Longworth.  She does a different topic every season and she has one whole season devoted to Joan Crawford, and one episode devoted to Baby Jane and Joan's later years.  She covers familiar topics and ones that I was unaware of, and I'm a pretty big fan of Hollywood history.  

http://www.youmustrememberthispodcast.com/

[psychoticstate]

4 minutes ago, Deanie87 said:

I just posted this in the episode thread, but anyone who is interested in Old Hollywood should check out the You Must Remember This podcast by Karina Longworth.  She does a different topic every season and she has one whole season devoted to Joan Crawford, and one episode devoted to Baby Jane and Joan's later years.  She covers familiar topics and ones that I was unaware of, and I'm a pretty big fan of Hollywood history.  

http://www.youmustrememberthispodcast.com/

I've listened to the podcast and while I think it's great that it helps the classic movie community flourish, I really wish someone other than Ms. Longworth narrated.  Her impressions of JC, BD and others makes me cringe.  And I'm sorry to say that I have noticed mistakes in her podcast.  But otherwise, interesting listening. 

[Deanie87]

3 minutes ago, psychoticstate said:

I've listened to the podcast and while I think it's great that it helps the classic movie community flourish, I really wish someone other than Ms. Longworth narrated.  Her impressions of JC, BD and others makes me cringe.  And I'm sorry to say that I have noticed mistakes in her podcast.  But otherwise, interesting listening. 

Yes, I agree, her voice and impressions can be grating.  I haven't listened to all of the seasons, but that's a shame that you found mistakes.  I have mostly listened to the stories that I wasn't as familiar with.  I appreciated the Crawford one, even though I knew a lot of about her story, mainly because of how sympathetic Longworth was to her subject.  So many stories from that era seem to be long on legend, and short on the truth, so I will take what I can get! Especially now without Robert Osbourne :(

[LilWharveyGal]

I can't deal with her voice, either.  I wish I could, because I find most of the episode topics fascinating.

[Razzberry]

One of my earliest childhood memories is of seeing Bette Davis in a restaurant near Santa Rosa, CA.  I was too young (4?) to know or be impressed by who she was, but still vividly recall her walking by our table and just being blown away by this force of nature.  I don't recall her face, though she had to be pretty old, but was dressed to the nines in brilliant blue sequins.  I'd never experienced anything like it, and was sure she was "a queen".  My mother was more excited by the fat guy at the table she was with, Hitchcock.  I still don't know why they were there together, but just thought I'd share my brief brush with greatness. 

[psychoticstate]

17 minutes ago, Deanie87 said:

Yes, I agree, her voice and impressions can be grating.  I haven't listened to all of the seasons, but that's a shame that you found mistakes.  I have mostly listened to the stories that I wasn't as familiar with.  I appreciated the Crawford one, even though I knew a lot of about her story, mainly because of how sympathetic Longworth was to her subject.  So many stories from that era seem to be long on legend, and short on the truth, so I will take what I can get! Especially now without Robert Osbourne :(

 

15 minutes ago, LilWharveyGal said:

I can't deal with her voice, either.  I wish I could, because I find most of the episode topics fascinating.

The topics ARE fascinating and Ms. Longworth addresses some Hollywood history and lore that's basically been forgotten by all but the most devout classic Hollywood fan.  But, at least IMO, she does not have the voice for broadcasting and she certainly does not do the impressions well.  I can only listen to so much at a time because her narration bothers me so badly. 

I'm not certain if the mistakes I've noticed have been her mistakes or if she has someone researching who has made an error.  I did notice in listening to the segments on Charles Manson's Hollywood that she almost continuously mispronounced Leslie Van Houten's name (saying "Van Hooten") which made me crazy.  She pronounced it correctly once and then went back to mispronouncing it.  I guess I'm OCD about that stuff because I felt like she should have caught that; she was narrating after all.  

However, I am glad that she was sympathetic to Crawford and didn't jump on the Mommie Dearest train.  JC has gotten a very bad rap in the last handful of years and it's mostly undeserved.  She participated in some marvelous classic movies and that's what she should be remembered for. 

15 minutes ago, Razzberry said:

One of my earliest childhood memories is of seeing Bette Davis in a restaurant near Santa Rosa, CA.  I was too young (4?) to know or be impressed by who she was, but still vividly recall her walking by our table and just being blown away by this force of nature.  I don't recall her face, though she had to be pretty old, but was dressed to the nines in brilliant blue sequins.  I'd never experienced anything like it, and was sure she was "a queen".  My mother was more excited by the fat guy at the table she was with, Hitchcock.  I still don't know why they were there together, but just thought I'd share my brief brush with greatness. 

Wow!!  I love stories like this.  I never had the opportunity to meet any of my favorite classic stars.  What I would have given . . . 

I think Davis was a phenomenal actress, at least the majority of the time, but she was a huge star because she simply came alive on camera.  You couldn't take your eyes off her when she was on screen.  The same thing with Joan Crawford.  Another way in which they were similar! 

[ennui]

On 3/7/2017 at 9:03 AM, psychoticstate said:

Now, Voyager.

My favorite.

I'm often puzzled by people who insist Bette wasn't attractive. I always thought she was beautiful. Certainly, she didn't age well (booze and cigarettes, no doubt), but quite lovely in her youth.

“I’d Like to Kiss You, But I Just Washed My Hair.” For anyone who doesn't know where the line originated.  Cabin in the Cotton.

[Razzberry]

I often wondered what it was about her that impressed me so.  It wasn't just the clothes, because everyone was dressed up.  She could have looked like a witch, but it didn't matter, she just had this amazing presence or charisma, almost like an aura about her that took my breath away.  Whatever that is, she had it in spades even then.  Hitchcock, not so much.  ;)

[MonicaM]

I hadn't seen "Whatever Happened to Baby Jane" since I watched it on the late show as a teenager.  My husband had never seen it.  We found it on Amazon Prime and watched it last night.  When we compared notes later, we had both been thinking the entire time that it wasn't a great movie, due in no small part to almost ridiculous plot holes.  However, when it was over, we both had stiff muscles and joints and had difficulty getting up from our respective sofas.  We realized this was because we had watched so intently that I'm not sure either of us moved except to breathe and blink.  

Together these two were beyond star power.  I can't even describe the magic they created.  

Edited March 10, 2017 by MonicaM
Complete sentences are nice.

[CraftyHazel]

She really was a rather elegant looking older woman, until the breast cancer and stroke.

And I found a great site with clips, gossip, and photos galore, but when I tried to hyperlink, it failed.

Try this

Edited March 11, 2017 by Marmiarmo

[voiceover]

Quote from Pilot ep thread:

Personally I don't consider the silent film era as "Hollywood".

Ouch.  I can't wrap by head around that opinion.  The silent era was the birth of Hollywood -- that makes it, ipso facto, Hollywood.   All manner of the visuals in modern-day movie shorthand sprang from it.  Valentino was the first international sex symbol (watch Son of the Sheik) because of it.  Garbo: the ultimate tragic heroine. Fairbanks was Han Solo before George Lucas was born.  And Crawford was actually much more attractive in her silent pics.

Except for Chaplin, so much of current remembered Hollywood is voices, so the recall of the silent stars: obviously not on par.  

But the silent era not "Hollywood"??

Just, no.

*clambers down from soapbox*

For the All About Eve fans here, I hope you were able to catch it this past week, there on the big screen, as part of the TCM/Fandango partnership.  It was AWESOME.  I bored on at length about it in the TCM thread on Thursday.

I can't remember who'd said of Davis: "That gal has as much sex appeal as Slim Summerville."  Might have been Warner.  Pfft to that -- as anyone who's watched her literally blow smoke at Paul Henried in Now, Voyager begs to fuckin' differ.

[Arynm]

I have to agree with the above. Silent movies were the beginning of Hollywood. That's when the studios started moving to California and all the great film companies were formed. Remember that United Artists studio was started by  Mary Pickford, Charlie Chaplin and Douglas Fairbanks, all of whom were huge silent movie stars.

I understand that some people don't like the silent films, but I think that is doing them a great disservice. We wouldn't have had Clara Bow, Lillian Gish, Rudolph Valentino and Buster Keaton. Hell, even Greta Garbo got her start in the silent pictures.

I had a very low opinion of Joan Crawford, probably because all I knew of her was Mommie Dearest, but her early work is flat out amazing. She is gorgeous! Someone upthread said she glows and it is so true! Bette Davis was also quite a looker in her early days, part of that might be attributed to her incredible acting skills, but she wasn't a dog.

I think that many people that would have be considered beautiful in their time just aren't considered as pretty with standards changing. For instance, Jean Harlow does nothing for me, she comes off as harsh and boring looks-wise to me, but in her day she was a bombshell.

Maybe the tide is turning the other way for women such as Bette Davis.

[psychoticstate]

I love, love, love old Hollywood and I include the silent era in that as well.  Now my personal preference is for the 1930s films, which I simply adore, but to not include the silents and those actors, actresses, writers and directors is really giving them short shrift. 

I think it's sad that so many are forgotten today, except by the most ardent film lovers.  Chaplin wouldn't have been Chaplin if he had not gotten his start in silents.  Could you imagine The Tramp speaking?  It wouldn't have been the same.   Lon Chaney Sr. was spectacular, in part because his movies were silents.   Joan Crawford began in silents and if you ever watch "Our Dancing Daughters," which I think is her best silent film, you will understand why she became a star.  She is mesmerizing.  "Sunrise" is probably my favorite silent film; one of the best ever made. 

That was indeed the era when Hollywood was truly born; the early silent films were shot in New York and New Jersey but winters made filming tough and that's why the filmmakers began moving to California.  These people produced massive amounts of films.  Director Thomas Ince alone was responsible for making more than 800 films and he died at only 44!  He is truly the father of Hollywood as he created the first major Hollywood studio facility and helped to develop the role of a producer in films.   Ramon Navarro was our first Latin American movie star. Rudolph Valentino, as pointed out above, our first international star.  Douglas Fairbanks Sr. and Mary Pickford was Hollywood's first power/"it" couple.  The lovely Olive Thomas was the first actress to die in a questionable way and locale (and led to Hollywood's first true scandal.)   These early players were also filthy rich - - Roscoe "Fatty" Arbuckle was earning a million dollars a year TAX FREE.  (These were the days before income tax.)   Today, that would be nearly $13 million.  They were really and truly living the dream.   

So many of these actors, actresses, writers, directors gave us wonderful art and cinematic capsules of the time period.  I'm sad that many films of that period were lost.

[shksabelle]

I can watch almost any Bette movie any time.  She is my all-time favorite actresss.

Like others, All About Eve and Jezebel are my top picks and, for me. I adore her as Elizabeth I

[voiceover]

Thinking back to "Joan Blondell"'s line last night, about how women devour women and "pick their teeth with the bones"...

Pauline Kael was a fine example of that.  Ageism & sexism weren't JUST visited upon actresses by the men.  I thought Kael had some great moments as a critic, but she shit all over performances by Bette Davis and Katharine Hepburn in much of their post-1960 work.  

ETA: 

From Kael's review of On Golden Pond:

"[Hepburn] horribly overdoes Ethel's devotion to Norman, so that it calls attention to Ethel's own wonderfulness."  Earlier in the review she declares that, "...the only way to show respect for elderly performers is to hold them to the same standards that they were held to when they were younger..." -- guess that's what she chanted in her head as she was typing up all those "God help those old dears, whyaretheystilldoingthis?" paragraphs.

Notably, this kind of treatment was visited upon Kael in the end -- she was squeezed out in favor of New Blood, too.  

Edited March 14, 2017 by voiceover

[AuntiePam]

I liked Crawford in Mildred Pierce and thought she was wonderful and sexy in Woman on the Beach.  Other than that (and Baby Jane), I've avoided all her movies.  That might be because of the Mommie Dearest stuff, or maybe because she comes off as cold.  Watching Feud has given me some sympathy for her, so maybe I'll watch TCM for more of her movies.  Or not.

Bette Davis is my favorite actress, period.  I've probably seen 95% of her movies.  The Little Foxes is my favorite.  She just seems so real and honest, and I appreciate that she was willing to be "old", that she didn't hide from the camera when she was no longer a pretty young thing.  (Loved her in A Catered Affair too.)

[psychoticstate]

If you get TCM:

For Joan Crawford fans, both Mildred Pierce and Whatever Happened to Baby Jane will be airing on March 22.  

On March 31, TCM will air Grand Hotel, Rain, The Last of Mrs. Cheyney, The Women, A Woman's Face, Humoresque, and Possessed. 

For Bette Davis fans, The Letter will air on March 20.   All About Eve and The Little Foxes on March 21.  The above mentioned Baby Jane on March 22 and The Petrified Forest on March 23.  

On March 29, they will air All This and Heaven Too, Deception and Dead Ringer. 

FWIW, I'm very surprised TCM is not doing a marathon for JC on March 23 (her birthday.)  

Edited March 16, 2017 by psychoticstate
Found more showings!

[enoughcats]

I hate to deflect from the movie list on TCM (as I've been over there, marking them to record, thanks psychoticstate and AuntiePam), but the character Mamacita is the one I know nothing about.

(I have not seen M Dearest.)

Is there a book or article somewhere that expands on who she was and why?

[LIMOM]

12 minutes ago, enoughcats said:

I hate to deflect from the movie list on TCM (as I've been over there, marking them to record, thanks psychoticstate and AuntiePam), but the character Mamacita is the one I know nothing about.

(I have not seen M Dearest.)

Is there a book or article somewhere that expands on who she was and why?

Here:

http://www.vanityfair.com/hollywood/2017/03/feud-joan-crawford

[small potatoes]

Bette was also pretty good as a cold-hearted waitress in Of Human Bondage.

"After you kissed me I always used to wipe my mouth!"

Edited March 22, 2017 by small potatoes
to get the quote right

[ennui]

On 3/16/2017 at 11:41 AM, psychoticstate said:

For Bette Davis fans, The Letter will air on March 20.

I only saw the first few minutes, but I loved Bette committing the murder. She didn't look the least bit sorry.  :)

[stillhere1900]

Yesterday, I watched the actual movie.... "What Ever Happened To Baby Jane ?

It was a very good movie but i'm curious as to why it was listed as a horror movie instead of a suspense/drama ?

On 3/6/2017 at 9:05 PM, Adultosaurus said:

People let her opinion of political matters that is opposite to theirs cloud their notion that she's an actor.  People also forget that as a taxpaying, voting citizen, she has as much say as they do.

Very well said. 

Edited March 27, 2017 by stillhere1900

[enoughcats]

Decades ago, when I was a child, it was the 40s and 50s.  We lived in a smallish county seat in Virginia.  I have many, many vivid memories of people, of houses, even of friends pets. 

One somewhat hazy memory is of one of my parents well educated friends, who seemed bigger that life for whatever that means to a child.  She was tall (hell, to a child every adult is tall) and she was expressive, and she had a huge smile.  And big gestures.  

Trying to remember who she was has been a bother to me ever since I watched the first Ep. of Feud and went back and watched the pre 50s movies of both Crawford and Davis.  This woman 'took after' Joan Crawford.  Analytical me now realizes that the blackened eyebrows weren't her real color, and her mannerisms were somewhat taken from Joan Crawford of the 30s. 

It's only with watching this epoch series and watching the movies of the real stars that I'm able to put into its place a part of my childhood that is both a vivid memory and a bit of a wonder at how someone could be just a little bit more than her comtemporaries. 

Thank you for reading my memories, which I'm having some trouble expressing.