Incorporated - General Discussion

[Meredith Quill]

Discuss Incorporated Here!

[xaxat]

The trailers really remind me of the movie Gattaca.

[formerlyfreedom]

Quote

In a corporate-controlled future, Spiga junior exec Ben Larson keeps secrets from family and co-workers; Laura, Ben's wife, contemplates a life change; outsider Theo is offered a dangerous job.

 

Please note: This has been released on line prior to it's 11/30/2016 broadcast debut. If you enter this topic and read before viewing, you WILL be spoiled.

[Raja]

It is worth a second look. But derivative, sort of like Elysium or Colony with the focus on the inside of the utopia instead of the rebels on the outside. However the people outside seem way to healthy and well feed for the world they are building with the physical destruction all around. What does back the worth of cash in this society? I guess time will tell. 

Quite a few of the A-list, I know that face supporting actors are showing up.

[Chaos Theory]

I enjoyed it a lot.  It did suffer some from the typical things pilots suffer from but I liked the idea of both worlds. Both worlds look fully formed and like they could function on their own.   The one thing that might get old is the search for the girl unless that part of the story mutates at some point.  

[Triskan]

It was kinda bold for the show to start in media res, as the main character is already involved in a plot (so no "origin story") though I guess they might explain it all via flashbacks...

Anyway, I must say I'm curious. Apart from Channel Zero, I've been following all of SyFy's original recent shows (with varying degrees of appreciation but still enjoying them all each their way) so let's see that one...

[wanderingstar]

I liked it. I'm a sucker for dystopia stories, and they seem to have done a good job with the world building. Every time they revealed something about this future, (like needing permission to have children), I was curious to know more about the world as a whole.

Not sure how many episodes there will be, but I'm in for the long haul.

[fauntleroy]

I liked the premise - the trend to privatization carried to its logical conclusion. Also self-driving cars, the climate mess like the 'Providence levees', the fact that real food is mostly gone, the birth permission. The fence at the Canadian border ha ha. Syfy's site for the show has a History of the Future section that is worth a look.

However the 'silent room' where an individual Dr Eeevil Haysbert guy does torture is gratuitous. No investigation, no criminal justice system? Esp since the guy was innocent - a dupe. Does one Dr Eeevil torture all suspects of anything? He must be busy. Too heavy-handed and careless.

These world-building shows often have to keep the scale small for the budget which fair enough. But so far it seems like maybe 50 people work in the green zone. Inevitably I'm disappointed by these, as after spending a lot of budget on the initial world scenes, the story settles in to a familiar chasey chase-type story, like in this case boy trying to find his girl. Then the world they spent so much energy creating is relegated to mere backdrop. When really, I'm more interested in the world they showed us, than any of the individuals.

[zxy556575]

4 hours ago, fauntleroy said:

However the 'silent room' where an individual Dr Eeevil Haysbert guy does torture is gratuitous. No investigation, no criminal justice system? Esp since the guy was innocent - a dupe. Does one Dr Eeevil torture all suspects of anything? He must be busy. Too heavy-handed and careless.

I was grateful they at least cut away and didn't show the torture.

So Ben/Aaron has been deep undercover for a few years? I just wish his wife and the missing woman didn't look so much alike.

I thought the production values and set design were well done and believable enough for 58 years from now (except for the wardrobes being a little too "now").

The rich cougar forcing a young Red Zone man to have facial surgery was, yes, creepy, but all I could think was that she should have picked someone taller.

It's a thriller and was watchable as such. Several reviews have called it derivative and unoriginal, but it's telling a certain type of story and I don't fault it for that. The timely jabs about Canada building a wall and the world divided into haves and have-nots made me, as intended, wince a little. The corporate jockeying and dirty tricks to get the open position on the 40th floor should be interesting.

I'm watching Leah Remini's anti-Scientology show and was struck by the similarities, inasmuch as people in positions of authority can have their lives pulled out from under them in an instant. So many imagined futures are full of uncertainty and eggshell-walking.

I had to look up who was playing the so-familiar looking president of Spiga -- ah, it's Julia Ormond. The cast seems to have more than the usual number of British, Canadian and Australian actors.

Edited December 1, 2016 by lordonia

[basiltherat]

I thought it was confusing.  Hero looked a lot like he could be Danny Pino's brother.

I thought the close ups on Haysbert's hands were really, really humorous and brought me out of the story (y'know, good HANDS with Allstate).

[fauntleroy]

1 hour ago, lordonia said:

 I just wish his wife and the missing woman didn't look so much alike.

Agree. The missing woman also looks like him so I thought she was his sister. Everybody is pretty, in the same way. All the big brown eyes!

I'll be interested to see how they do food, ongoing. For example that bad guy eating a tomato as a display of power I guess. Presumably no more obese people.

It's a Canadian show (has Syfy ever done a show in US?) so we should expect to see a lot of er, Canadians and such. It was great to see Dewey Crowe! Who is Australian.

The Canadian sci-fi shows share a certain look, hard to put my finger on. For one thing, the squalor is unconvincing.

[Irishmaple]

Half of Canada seems to be working on the show so I feel a bit duty-bound to watch it. Ian Tracey is doing double duty with this one and Travellers so I hope this one proves more cohesive than the latter.

The only character I found interesting was Ben's wife. She seemed to have an interesting story being the daughter of the Spiga president, a kidnap survivor, a self harmer and, apparently, the only employee at a swank plastic surgery clinic. Ben seems to be using her for status, so I feel bad for her, because she seems like a genuinely nice person. Considering they plan on trying for a baby, their relationship seemed on the chaste side.

I wasn't impressed with the actor who plays Ben. I felt no sense of Ben's inner life or conflict. I hope he does more with the role.

I'm always shocked when Dennis Haysbert does something evil because, to me, he remains Mr. President (24)  I know it's been years!

[Ariah]

The Ben actor reminds me of Oscar Isaac a lot.

I like the premise so far, the little things the most: a motorcycle-lift, the Canadian fence, the bacon. 

I concur, Ben's wife seems one of the most interesting characters so far. 

[wanderingstar]

Quote

However the 'silent room' where an individual Dr Eeevil Haysbert guy does torture is gratuitous. No investigation, no criminal justice system? Esp since the guy was innocent - a dupe. Does one Dr Eeevil torture all suspects of anything? He must be busy. Too heavy-handed and careless.

Sadly, the only part that's unrealistic is that Dennis Haysbert's character, Julian, would be the doing the torture himself. Torture by law enforcement officers has been a reality for a good long while now.

I read a review that remarked on the lead character, Ben, isn't all that compelling. I have to agree. I'm much more interested in the world surrounding him. Maybe that will change as the episodes go on.

[mjc570]

I thought it was ok enough to keep watching, especially because  - Dewey Crowe!   It reminds me somewhat of the plot of the wonderful "Red Rising" books (member of the underclass is transformed to pass as a member of the ruling class in order to bring the caste system down), but the Ben character just isn't compelling to me.  I don't know if it's the writing or the acting, but I just don't have any feeling for him.  I assume that he went undercover to discover the fate of Theo's sister (not sure what her relation to Aaron/Ben is - are they all siblings?) rather than to be a revolutionary.

I really liked the fact that the plot was easy to follow, and the characters are physically distinct enough not to be confusing.  I liked the little stuff, like the fine Norwegian champagne, the Canadian wall.

[Chaos Theory]

1 hour ago, Gillian Rosh said:

Sadly, the only part that's unrealistic is that Dennis Haysbert's character, Julian, would be the doing the torture himself. Torture by law enforcement officers has been a reality for a good long while now.

I read a review that remarked on the lead character, Ben, isn't all that compelling. I have to agree. I'm much more interested in the world surrounding him. Maybe that will change as the episodes go on.

Ben is probably the least compelling part of the show right now and that is largely due to the fact that his motives are fall into one of my least liked tropes "save the girl".  Then again this is just the pilot and both the green zone and the red zone have such potential that everyone's motivation might change or not be what they appear at all.

Still I love the idea of a Corporation in total control of everyones lives that even the smallest mistake could cost someone everything.

[formerlyfreedom]

Ben scrambles to deflect suspicion after the data breach; Laura offers to help when her mother's policies evict an innocent family; Theo is forced into an important cage fight.

[callie lee 29]

I never got the feeling that Haysbert's character was actual law enforcement, just the head of the company's security more or less. Spiga is handling all of this internally: their own armed security officers detained him on private property and just kept him. No going through and legal government entities like a police department or courts (do we know if those even exist anymore?). 

I'm surprised I liked this so much. I'm not really into scifi or dystopian plots, but this wasn't bad.

[Chaos Theory]

23 minutes ago, callie lee 29 said:

I never got the feeling that Haysbert's character was actual law enforcement, just the head of the company's security more or less. Spiga is handling all of this internally: their own armed security officers detained him on private property and just kept him. No going through and legal government entities like a police department or courts (do we know if those even exist anymore?). 

I'm surprised I liked this so much. I'm not really into scifi or dystopian plots, but this wasn't bad.

It looks like there is some form of government. Head corporate lady was talking to someone in the government when Ben stopped by for one reason or another.  My guess is the government controls the red zones but has little or no power over the green zones.  And since the corporations control most of the wealth it is easy to see how they can do what they want.

Edited December 2, 2016 by Chaos Theory

[OoogleEyes]

On 12/1/2016 at 1:08 PM, Irishmaple said:

 

I wasn't impressed with the actor who plays Ben. I felt no sense of Ben's inner life or conflict. I hope he does more with the role.

Although when his wife told him they had the OK to get pregnant ....his face was hilarious!

[thuganomics85]

Science fiction show, where both David Hewlett and Ian Tracey pop up?  Yep, another good old Vancouver-based one!  Waiting for the mandated by Canadian law appearances from the likes of Hiro Kanagawa and especially Roger Cross (sure, he's a regular on Dark Matter, but that ain't stopping him!) 

I'll give it a few more episodes, since I tend to usually end up enjoying most SyFy shows now (although, I did drop Van Helsing after three.)  There is a few ideas and characters I find intriguing, but the big selling point of Ben wanting to find his kidnapped love of his life or whatever, is already boring me.  I've seen it before.  Plus, I love Alison Miller, so him clearly wanting do leave her is not cool!  But it actually sounds like he's some kind of agent, and Damon Herriman (Dewey Crowe!) is his handler.  Also, he apparently is from the Red Zone.  I'm sure it will be brought up in future episodes.

I see between this and Mad Men, casting directors really love having Julia Ormond play a mother who has a... err, frosty relationship with her daughter.  It looks like Laura somehow ended up getting attacked in the Red Zone, and her mothers blames for it.  While Laura blames her mom for whatever happen to her father.  Ah, family!

Not enough Dennis Haysbert yet, although I'm getting a kick out of seeing him as a scary guy, since I keep picturing that this is what he does to people who don't switch to Allstate (like how I picture J.K. Simmons hurling chairs at people who aren't on Farmer's Insurance!)

I did chuckle over them being so excited for real bacon.  I get a kick out of any future show where something that is normal know ends up being a privilege in the future (see: The Expanse and coffee.) 

Edited December 5, 2016 by thuganomics85

[Raja]

6 hours ago, thuganomics85 said:

 

I'll give it a few more episodes, since I tend to usually end up enjoying most SyFy shows now (although, I did drop Van Helsing after three.)  There is a few ideas and characters I find intriguing, but the big selling point of Ben wanting to find his kidnapped love of his life or whatever, is already boring me.  I've seen it before.  Plus, I love Alison Miller, so him clearly wanting do leave her is not cool!  But it actually sounds like he's some kind of agent, and Damon Herriman (Dewey Crowe!) is his handler.  Also, he apparently is from the Red Zone.  I'm sure it will be brought up in future episodes.

The part where he has been working undercover for years and I thought it was going to be a sister has been a sex slave all that time leads me to think what do they expect to rescue. but of course since we are in the green zone she won't be used up and sent down the line further dropping into degradation  but probably be a part of a harem hardly ever being called upon for sex for a single customer/corporate slave owner.

[talktoomuch]

It was interesting to me that the show went out of its way to show women as equally powerful to men in the Green Zone, while seemingly relegated to anachronistic gender roles in the Red Zone. I like how that plays against the trope that the privatized utopia is all bad. Looking forward to finding out more about both zones.

[wanderingstar]

Quote

Science fiction show, where both David Hewlett and Ian Tracey pop up?  Yep, another good old Vancouver-based one! 

I know! I think that was one of my favorite parts of this. And yes, if Roger Cross (I'll also throw in Rob Stewart) shows up, that will confirm the show's Canadian SyFy bona fides.

Quote

but the big selling point of Ben wanting to find his kidnapped love of his life or whatever, is already boring me.

Seriously. My eyes glazed over when he looked at the old photograph of her.
 

[wanderingstar]

I think I missed something. Why did Laura and Ben have sex in the car instead of in their house?

Theo's boyfriend is adorable.

I liked getting some background on Ben, but I still do not care about Elana or Ben's search for her.

So happy to get more Ian Tracey on this show.

[surfer]

So is the audience supposed to be rooting for Ben?

I mean he seems like a decent guy. Save the framing an innocent man resulting in said man's torture and eventual loss of all memories. Plus poor guy's wife is now forced to give up her children and never see them again. And then there's marrying a woman who's clearly got some issues, fully intending on leaving her once he's reunited with his one true love. Yeah, he's a gem.

Edited December 8, 2016 by surfer

[wanderingstar]

surfer, I was wondering this myself. Ben comes across terribly in this ep, and I found myself actively wanting him to get caught.

[Chaos Theory]

I don't think we are supposed to be "rooting" for anyone.  This is just an interesting story about a dystopian future where corporations have taken over.  I did like the story of Ben/Aaron's early childhood.  I also found the idea that if you got "fired" from job the way Ben's boss did his family would lose everything.  

9 hours ago, Gillian Rosh said:

I think I missed something. Why did Laura and Ben have sex in the car instead of in their house?

 

She had a really bad day.  That was really all it was.  Stress relief. 

<___Edited to add:  the next corporate meeting I have is going to sound strangely ominous.

Edited December 8, 2016 by Chaos Theory

[Anakerie]

On 12/3/2016 at 1:26 AM, thuganomics85 said:

 

Not enough Dennis Haysbert yet, although I'm getting a kick out of seeing him as a scary guy, since I keep picturing that this is what he does to people who don't switch to Allstate (like how I picture J.K. Simmons hurling chairs at people who aren't on Farmer's Insurance!)

 

I'm having the same issue.  I kept ad-libbing stuff in. "I told you to buy the insurance. Why didn't you just buy the insurance?"

[Irishmaple]

The corporations do not mess around. When someone loses their job, they lose everything. Ben looks sociopathic right now, having set in motion a plot that cost a man his entire life, dragging the man's family down too. The wife isn't going to last long outside her protected environment. She made a brave choice in giving up her sons but does anyone really think that adoption is going to go well? The boys have lived their entire lives with their parents and now a hopeful childless couple is hoping they'll just adapt to a new set of parents?  And Ben's duplicity is putting Laura at risk too. Not looking too favourably on him right now. 

I really like Laura. If she ends up outside the wall because of Ben, I will not be happy. 

[zxy556575]

21 hours ago, Irishmaple said:

And Ben's duplicity is putting Laura at risk too. Not looking too favourably on him right now. 

At least we got some backstory on Ben and Elena, although it made Ben seem even worse to me. He married a women he likely doesn't love, set up a man to be tortured (and watched it!), and put himself and his wife in severe jeopardy, all over a girl he briefly knew 20 years ago at a refugee camp. Come on.

Theo's cage fighting is uncomfortable to watch, both because of (1) the violence and (2) the dangerous hole he's digging himself into with Terrance.

Edited December 9, 2016 by lordonia

[Chaos Theory]

Theo is at least a better protagonist then Ben. I don't mind violent and his kind of violence has a reason behind it.  He is trying to keep himself and his boyfriend afloat plus the girl is his sister and not someone he has a vague relationship with.

i also am finding Elena fascinating.  

It is odd that Ben is the weak link of the story.  The show might have been better off by not having Ben's storyline at all.  It still would have worked for me.

[formerlyfreedom]

A rival executive offers valuable secrets, causing Ben, Elizabeth and Julian to plan a defection; Laura responds to a betrayal; Aaron and Elena meet again.

[thuganomics85]

I do think they're trying to show that Ben's actions are bad, even if they're excusing some of it as him getting ahead in this "eat or get eaten" corporate world and finding Elena.  But I do find myself more and more interested in Laura and Theo.  It seems like they're making it that Laura is a bit sheltered in some aspects (being shocked over how David Hewlett's wife was being railroaded), but also willing to stand-up for what she believes in.  And I think Allison Miller is really doing a good job with it.  As for Theo, he is so desperate to find his sister, he is getting himself deeper and deeper with one scary individual.  Ian Tracey is a blast to watch in this role.

The flashbacks didn't really make me any more interested in Ben/Elena, but I did like how he first met Hendrick/Damon Herriman.  So, he isn't part of some kind of agency or anything, but he saw Ben stealing stuff as a kid, and has taken a shine to him.  And it looks like he's gotten himself into the corporation, too?  I guess his reasons are to just get rich, while Ben's are over Elena.  That will likely cause problems down the line.

Glad we got more of Denise Haysbert this time around.

I guess Ben can't go into incognito mode anymore, now that his device has been taken by his co-worker who looks like he stepped right out of Mad Men.

[SlovakPrincess]

The fatal flaw of the show is that it's really hard to root for Ben when he deliberately set up another man to be tortured and have his entire family's life destroyed!  Maybe it would have worked better if Ben was naive about what happened to "fired" employees and felt terrible when he found out the hell Chad went through?

 It's a shame, because the actor is kind of mesmerizing.  But I can't like Ben after what he did.  And I sort of hope Chad somehow, miraculously remembers everything and comes back for revenge  

But I do like Laura!  And Theo and his boyfriend -- although, damn, Theo better not get on the wrong side of his crazy homicidal agent!  Yikes. 

The flashbacks with young Elena and Aaron/Ben really worked for me - good, subtle kid actors are always a pleasant surprise.  

[Hanahope]

I kept wondering if Laura was so concerned over Chad's wife and kids, why couldn't the family come llive with them?

I'm pretty sure Ben meets Elena later on, because it looked like the photo he had of her, she looked older, and older teen.

Unless they show some story line about how mean and evil Chad was, Ben's not going to get any sympathy from he for what he did, Elena or not.

With all that tech, they can't tell if someone is lying or not?  They should have been able to confirm that Chad wasn't lying about not putting that stuff, whatver, in his brief case.

[Chaos Theory]

9 minutes ago, Hanahope said:

.

With all that tech, they can't tell if someone is lying or not?  They should have been able to confirm that Chad wasn't lying about not putting that stuff, whatver, in his brief case.

Ironically I think Chad was working on the tech.    I think the problem is it isn't at all reliable.  Plus it takes away a lot of the thriller nature of the show if you can point something at someone and tell if they are lying.  If it was that easy there would be no show.  Every lie would be exposed as they got told.

[Joimiaroxeu]

Yeah, ditto comments upthread, I'm not going to be able to pull for Ben after what he let happen to Chad. I guess I'm putting most of my cards on Laura now even though she annoys with the way she both enjoys and disdains her privileged status. And I hope they give Dennis Haysbert's character more to do than be the resident Torquemada.

[zxy556575]

43 minutes ago, Hanahope said:

I'm pretty sure Ben meets Elena later on, because it looked like the photo he had of her, she looked older, and older teen.

Ah, that's right! It's probably safe to assume he made the video. Still, how many lives is he prepared to ruin in order to help one person? I'm already not that fond of plots that involve a man "saving" his woman.

Laura's argument with her mother came off more as snotty teenage rebellion. If Laura's ideologically against her mother's business policies, she shouldn't work for her company. (Well, I guess it remains to be seen if people from one corporate state are even allowed to leave and move to a competitor.)

[Chaos Theory]

3 hours ago, lordonia said:

Ah, that's right! It's probably safe to assume he made the video. Still, how many lives is he prepared to ruin in order to help one person? I'm already not that fond of plots that involve a man "saving" his woman.

Laura's argument with her mother came off more as snotty teenage rebellion. If Laura's ideologically against her mother's business policies, she shouldn't work for her company. (Well, I guess it remains to be seen if people from one corporate state are even allowed to leave and move to a competitor.)

The problem is there isn't much choice in the matter.   From what I understand the green zones are the only real safe places and not liking some of the more ruthless rules may be all well and good but the alternative is the red zone.  Like the kids of the woman Laura tried to help Laura more then likely spent most of her life in the green zone.  The only experience she has with the red zone is being kidnapped and tortured.  I doubt walking out on the company and the green zone would even cross her mind and her her mother threatening to throw her out would be the one thing that would scare her enough into compliance.

Anyway i thought her storyline was the most interesting because she is an interesting blend of nievety, selflessness, and antagonism for her mother,  She is the kind of character I would have actually liked to have been the lead instead of Ben.  

Edited December 9, 2016 by Chaos Theory

[enchantingmonkey]

Dennis Haysbert said something to Chad about how all of the co-workers that he went to the Red Zone with hated him, so perhaps there is a backstory there that the show will give us some insight into.  It might also help if Sean Teale (Ben/Aaron) was giving us more than just a really pretty face to work with.  But who knows, maybe the show doesn't want us to like Ben.  

[wanderingstar]

Quote

Theo's cage fighting is uncomfortable to watch, both because of (1) the violence and (2) the dangerous hole he's digging himself into with Terrance.

I still can't believe that Ian Tracey - who played my sweet, guileless Jason on Continuum - is playing the truly terrifying Terrance.

[mjc570]

1 hour ago, Gillian Rosh said:

I still can't believe that Ian Tracey - who played my sweet, guileless Jason on Continuum - is playing the truly terrifying Terrance.

Good catch!  i didn't even realize that was him. 

[waving feather]

This show has kept my attention so far. I wasn't fond of the actor playing Ben in other shows but he's doing well here. He doesn't overplay the tension and he makes a convincing liar. Even though he is a protagonist, I don't think Ben is supposed to be a moral character. If you look at him from Chad's family POV, he is evil. But I think that's the point of the show... No one is good anymore in this dystopia. Ben is interesting, though and I think he will suffer the consequences of his actions down the road.

Count me in as someone who is surprised by how much the flashback scenes work. Those kid actors are good enough.

[formerlyfreedom]

The Larsons and Elizabeth clash over life choices; Theo resists an order; Roger wants help in uncovering Ben's secrets; Aaron and Theo plan a heist.

[Cigale]

WTF were the suits doing when they were like brain-connected with the overweight guy who supposedly offered himself to be sacrificed???

[Ariah]

1 hour ago, sisterspoon said:

WTF were the suits doing when they were like brain-connected with the overweight guy who supposedly offered himself to be sacrificed???

They were indulging themselves in his emotions, feelings and sensations his body felt when he was consuming alcohol and sweets. 

Unhealthy substances that would cause their bodies to look like his (eventually), but this way they can experience all that via proxy.

[sjohnson]

Well, for me the belief that corporations are eternal is the kind of thing that makes scifi look bad. I look at the screen and wonder who's buying Spiga's product? Still in many respects this is well done. Except for Theo. The cage fighter thing is compulsory (in the minds of producers) but it's barely tolerable. Conflict is not drama, choice is drama. People whaling on each other is just violence for it's own sake. Also not looking very promising is the soulful torturer, even if Haysbert is playing him. The number of police and intelligence operatives who end up going over to the people is miniscule. And the number whose native sympathy with their victims is good for anything but their self-love I think is even less.

The woman's message to her brother did explain nicely why she changed her mind about working as a prostitute, though. I'm assuming at this point she had separated herself from her brother and old boyfriend because she was not proud of her choice to sex for money. I'm also assuming at this point that Ben's marriage is legit in the sense he had already broken off with the old flame, who'd also gone on, but he and Theo were looking for her because they didn't accept her breaking off contact. 

Of course, a wish fulfillment fantasy where the handsome hero is torn, I say torn to the heart, by the love of two stunningly beautiful women is often dear to the heart of Hollywood producers.

Edited December 15, 2016 by sjohnson

[Chaos Theory]

The corporations are so big they are self sustaining.  It's like one big industrial mousetrap.  Plus my guess if one corp doesn't have the ability to build something it sells to the other.    Thats why everything is so set on what level you are in the company.  Only people in management have pools or can get into the sex clubs.  Only people on certain floors have big houses.  You can only start families at this point at this moment.  Everything is set to sustain the company including the people who buy things from the company.

[Joimiaroxeu]

For some reason I just noticed in this episode that the corporate men all have the same sharp jaw line and slightly dimpled protruding chin. Even the women have a softer version of it. Presumably most of them got plastic surgery to obtain or enhance that look in order to help their career progression. That in itself is scary to me and seems a couple of steps removed from replacing employees with droids.