S01.E03: A Dark Crate

[The Hound Lives]

37 minutes ago, kieyra said:

Avery lost me at "threw cat into a fire".

I'm with you there. I might be one of those heartless people who didn't even think about Andrea's cat. I wasn't the least bit concerned. Sad, yes, but in shows/movies, the death of an animal doesn't hit me as hard as people. Especially children. But in real life, shit like Avery tossing a cat into a fire already had me screaming "GUILTY"! 

1 hour ago, Neurochick said:

I agree.  It's NYC, some reporter would have been all over the victim's story.  I mean even if her mother left her the brownstone, how did she pay the taxes and the bills?  See, if she was doing something illegal to pay the bills, there could be another suspect.

Maybe it happened off camera but I am curious why Box didn't interview any of her friends. She obviously has some if people left a memorial at her place, complete with candid shots of her. Why wouldn't he dig deep and find out if there are other alternatives to who could've wanted to hurt Andrea?  Certainly it looks like a slam dunk with Naz but something was bugging him about it, he held off charging him for a reason. And I don't think that reason was solely he wanted a confession. He is a seasoned veteran, he has seen it all. "What am I missing?" He can put the pieces he has together but they don't fit the way he would like. 

Does anyone else think we might find some type of connection between Andrea and Freddy? No...okay. I'll be alone on that island. :) 
Just thinking back to episode 1, when Naz and Andrea encountered Trevor (?) and his friend on the street. That stare down by the one guy wasn't  coincidence. He knew Andrea from somewhere. She might have been oblivious but that look wasn't about intimidation to me. He recognized her. 

[Superpole2000]

20 minutes ago, kieyra said:

Sorry,  maybe I'm misunderstanding something in this conversation, but I thought the desk cop pointed out that the taxi was probably going to be confiscated because it was used in the commission of a crime. It doesn't have that much to do with evidence in the big picture, it's about money.

http://time.com/money/4106485/police-private-property-seizure/

 That's why the cop encouraged them to report it stolen.

Yes, I often think they keep things because they can. I don't think they are interested in tearing it apart to examine its value as evidence. It's worth more to them in good condition. Seems like stealing to me, and it's terrible that it is rising in prevalence.

[clb1016]

The cops didn't have a choice but to arrest Naz.  There's so much evidence against him (he himself said that he knows it looks like he did it) that the cops couldn't just cut him loose without another realistic possibility as a suspect; a cop's "gut" isn't enough.

[numbnut]

9 hours ago, Drogo said:

9 hours ago, numbnut said:

My first guess would be that Box has someone tailing the dad though I'm not sure how the dad's associations can help the case against Naz.

Maybe hoping to find out something about his parents (ex: illegal activity, terrorist ties, marital infidelity) that would inevitably draw the Muslim community's support away from the family. 

Wouldn't the Muslim community already be outraged by Naz's activities before the crime (sex with a stranger, drugs, booze)?

Edited July 25, 2016 by numbnut

[Valmarmar]

Wow  - posts above - The Hound Lives and clb1016 - right on my wave length!  I was thinking of Box while reading through this episode's comments.  I want to see him investigate the case, even if he has to do it on the sly (like a lot of tv/movie murder shows when they have the "right guy").   I felt Stone was right on when he accused Box of his "gut" feeling.  I am hoping he will follow up. Another reason is, I am curious about who Box really is.  Is his "caring" act just that, or does he invest in the cases that give him the "uneasy" feeling?  Where Stone would fit in this scenario, other than joining forces...?

[Ellaria]

There are a lot of questions hanging around: what type of life did the victim lead, is the lime knife the murder weapon (I don't think that it is), why wasn't there more blood on Naz, were there other set of fingerprints in the apt and can they be identified, etc. We may not get answers to all of these questions but the more questions that remain, the more doubt that exists. A crafty defense attorney could take advantage of "doubt" 

1 hour ago, The Hound Lives said:

Maybe it happened off camera but I am curious why Box didn't interview any of her friends. She obviously has some if people left a memorial at her place, complete with candid shots of her. Why wouldn't he dig deep and find out if there are other alternatives to who could've wanted to hurt Andrea?  Certainly it looks like a slam dunk with Naz but something was bugging him about it, he held off charging him for a reason. And I don't think that reason was solely he wanted a confession. He is a seasoned veteran, he has seen it all. "What am I missing?" He can put the pieces he has together but they don't fit the way he would like. 

I think this a a great way to describe Box: "the pieces...don't fit the way he would like." If the pieces don't quite fit together, its because there are missing pieces. Will the prosecutor try to push for a quick trial before some of these missing pieces can be found? If so, Crowe may use a tactic that implies prejudice and rush to judgement because the case involves a young Muslim man. If we get to see the trial, I think that it will be anything but a straight forward presentation of the facts and the hows/whys that Naz could or could not have committed the murder.

I am intrigued by who was following Naz's father and agree with the statement below...

9 hours ago, Princess Sparkle said:

I'm guessing that's either an investigator for the prosecution, or possibly someone from a tabloid.

Naz's parents have no idea of what they are facing. 

[clb1016]

As much as I'm loving this show, there are a number of things that bother me; Naz's parents' passivity is one of them.  If your kid were arrested for murder and you were absolutely convinced he was innocent, wouldn't you be out breaking down doors to find the best lawyer you could?  Mortgage your house?  Sell everything you own?  These two sit back waiting for lawyers to come to them.  They seem entirely too willing to wait and see how the situation plays out.

[kieyra]

4 minutes ago, clb1016 said:

As much as I'm loving this show, there are a number of things that bother me; Naz's parents' passivity is one of them.  If your kid were arrested for murder and you were absolutely convinced he was innocent, wouldn't you be out breaking down doors to find the best lawyer you could?  Mortgage your house?  Sell everything you own?  These two sit back waiting for lawyers to come to them.  They seem entirely too willing to wait and see how the situation plays out.

This has been bothering me too. I get that they're still in shock. I get that I've watched too many crime procedurals with screaming/sobbing/hysterical relatives. I get that there may be some cultural thing going on that I don't understand. But it seems like emigrating to New York City from another country must require a certain amount of mental toughness and ability to deal with government bureaucracy. They act like they just touched down from another planet.

[bagatelle]

I think the whole point is, that most in the criminal justice systems don’t really care.  They are just doing their jobs. The police want to close the case, which they did.  They're not eager to look for other possible suspects; they have other crimes to close. The prosecuting lawyer is doing her job and wants a win.  Even the new defense lawyer is just doing her job, but with an ulterior motive. The prison staff is on autopilot and dead inside.

Obviously that's why we like Stone, because he seems to care.

Edited July 26, 2016 by bagatelle

[The Hound Lives]

46 minutes ago, kieyra said:

This has been bothering me too. I get that they're still in shock. I get that I've watched too many crime procedurals with screaming/sobbing/hysterical relatives. I get that there may be some cultural thing going on that I don't understand. But it seems like emigrating to New York City from another country must require a certain amount of mental toughness and ability to deal with government bureaucracy. They act like they just touched down from another planet.

I think his parents assumed that John Stone was their savior, until the conversation about money came up. Then they realized they are up shits creek. What did bug me is NYC is undoubtedly the most diverse place in America. Where are the community advocates? Granted, the first few episodes seem to have only spanned a week or so but there isn't a top (or at least, well versed) Muslim lawyer within their community to help them understand their rights and the rights of Naz? Someone who can explain some of the small details that they don't understand. I don't think his parents are stupid, they aren't new to the country and while they may stay within their communities socially, this is a family that has been assimilated, moreso with two grown sons. 
I can understand Naz's "shell shock" reaction to the court proceedings and being in lock-up, this will fade quickly because the lessons have begun already, but I really hope that this doesn't result in the family being ostracized completely from the life they have built. It probably will. Ugh. So sad.  

[scrb]

Wait a second.

The Khans are Pakistani Muslims.

Crowe took Chandra, an Indian Hindu, to speak to them and they spoke Hindi with each other?

I thought the Indian Hindis and Pakistani Muslims didn't get along.

[The Hound Lives]

6 minutes ago, scrb said:

Wait a second.

The Khans are Pakistani Muslims.

Crowe took Chandra, an Indian Hindu, to speak to them and they spoke Hindi with each other?

I thought the Indian Hindis and Pakistani Muslims didn't get along.

In the "old country", I believe this is true but Chandra is American born and bred of Indian origin. Like Naz, except Pakistani. I would hope that the conflicts of nations doesn't play into this but anything is possible I suppose. I think the fact that she is an Indian Hindu and was "close enough" for Allison is the real issue. Like Stone said, she is a "prop" Allison used to get in with the family. 

[scrb]

I thought one of the lines of dialog, which was subtitled, was either the girl or the mother complimenting the other about speaking Hindi well.

Would Pakistani Muslims speak Hindi?

[armadillo1224]

Well, they would speak Urdu but Urdu is basically the same language as Hindi and fully mutually intelligible.

Having a common language and coming from the same part of the world go a long way in making two sets of people feel comfortable with each other, when they are both immigrants in a foreign country, even if there is some sort of ethnic or geopolitical conflict going on a world away.

[The Hound Lives]

2 minutes ago, scrb said:

I thought one of the lines of dialog, which was subtitled, was either the girl or the mother complimenting the other about speaking Hindi well.

Would Pakistani Muslims speak Hindi?

I think both were speaking Urdu. 

[pfk505]

Was it explained that Chandra was Hindu? India has a massive minority Muslim population (and quite a few Christians and Sikhs).

[Pollock]

6 hours ago, kieyra said:

Not quite following you, as I don't see how Zellner could "know" Avery is guilty or innocent either. 

I think the more salient point here is that this show was in development before America got a taste for "injustice porn" via Serial and MaM.

(I'm unconvinced of the innocence of either of those people, but I suspect Syed at least is going to walk. Avery lost me at "threw cat into a fire".)

You're right, I should have said Zellner thinks she and her team can prove he was wrongly convicted, I didn't write it correctly, sorry for that!

I had no point really to my post, especially not one about innocence or guilt of either protagonists. That was just me expressing a general impression about the lawyer and Nasir's current situation in the press. No different that saying "this actress reminds me of this one", that was just "this lawyer and the treatment of the case remind me of" if you will! But I don't know any other "inthiscasepro-bono female lawyer" highly publicized like Zellner so it's not a surprising automatic mental association, as tenuous as it is!

 

More on the topic at hand, the strong suit of The Night Of, imho, and what they have done well is this case can remind you of any other one where the defendant suffered from:

- bias against him: here, his religion;

- the police concentrating their effort on the obvious suspect, not exploring any other path, at least that we saw for now. Not that they should at first but I think this one is going to bite them in the ass during the trial when the victim's life is explored. I'm legit curious to see how it will be done;

- the press being all over it with the inexistant professionalism that is customary to some. In two minutes, poor Nasir will be guilty in the eyes of the public but he's already just 30 seconds away to be a jihadist terrorist. It was already difficult to make the public forget you ever were considered for a crime but since the internet, good luck with getting Google to erase any trace of it, even if proven innocent;

- the suspect is not equiped to deal with the justice system, from his arrest, SHUT YOUR MOUTH NASIR!, to his custody. We can even ask ourselves: should a first time offender or even any people awaiting trial after bail was denied really be sent in prison, especially one like Rikers which is known as one of the worst in America and denounced profusely by Human Rights associations, anyway? Isn't that already serving hard time for a crime you're not proven guilty of?;

- and the worst of course being the family doesn't have a cent to put on his defense without jeopardizing their lifestyle which isn't all that luxurious, not even talking about the future of the brother, and the show has highlighted the well established pattern : if you're poor, you should or have to make a deal, regardless of your innocence because you'll never be able to pay the people you need to help proving that you didn't commit the crime. 

 

I don't see a happy ending for Naz here, even if we are showed at the end he's innocent for real and it's proven beyond reasonable doubt during the trial. He was screwed the second he woke up anyway. I'll be glad if we have a definitive resolution on the whodunit part of it, I'll be annoyed if not, but here, Nasir's Odyssey through the motions is the most important part and where the message resides. That means being all over the place sometimes, like I felt this episode was a little. 

[Drogo]

"You get told to do something, you do it. You lay a hand on any one of us, we will break out the riot gear, put you in the fucking hospital, and add another charge. So far this year we’ve done this 2,000 times, so you might say we look forward to it."

                   -The only satisfied employee of NYC Corrections, apparently.

[The Hound Lives]

Caught just a bit again last night, I swear re-watching you catch new things. When they first introduced Freddy, they showed newspaper clippings. Looks like he was a boxer, fairly well know with bigger success right around the corner when he got popped for something and went to jail.
One of the newspaper headlines read "King Of Queens". 
Speculation is high with this but of course, it could be nothing but coincidence. 

[Neurochick]

14 hours ago, clb1016 said:

The cops didn't have a choice but to arrest Naz.  There's so much evidence against him (he himself said that he knows it looks like he did it) that the cops couldn't just cut him loose without another realistic possibility as a suspect; a cop's "gut" isn't enough.

I think things would have been different if Naz himself called the police and explained what happened.  The cops might have arrested him, but they would have looked around at her life.  Did she live in that brownstone alone?  How was she paying the bills, the taxes?  Did she have many friends?  Who were they?

By Naz basically trying to escape, he made himself more of a suspect. 

[qtpye]

On 7/24/2016 at 10:36 PM, The Hound Lives said:

I hated him for trying to milk the money from Naz's parents, too. But then the flip-side of this, the new Lawyer (Allison?) might be doing this free but I don't believe for one second it is out of the goodness of her heart. It was shown early on that she is a high profile attorney who is in the media spotlight, this will be exploited for all it's worth. Meaning the Khan family will be exploited, as well. Of course, it's a high profile case no matter what but add in a big name lawyer, and this will be splashed all over national/international television. Add in her pulling Chandra, a young Indian lawyer chosen by Allison surely because of her ethnic background and look, a media circus means Naz won't only be tried by a jury but the world over. I am such a cynic. 

I get how this episode could be viewed as generic or even a filler episode. Right now there are a few different stories being told (Rikers, the Khan family, John, new lawyer, etc...). I don't know if this story was solely based on the murder investigation (instead all facets from start to finish) would sustain 8 episodes. They would really have to drag out every painful detail. I don't think it's just about the mystery but all the cogs in the wheel that bring it full circle. 

The truth of the matter is both attorneys want to rep Naz for their own selfish interests.  It just Stone is the lovable shlub we root for instead of big time blonde.  He is the underdog and he might actually care a tiny bit about Naz.  It is more then a little manipulative, but the actor that plays Stone sells it.  I am expecting to see him adopt the cat in the future.  I like that cat and do not want to it to get put down.

Also, did anyone notice for such a messy guy, he has a nice, fairly tidy apartment?  Maybe, the sloppy look is just a put on?

On 7/24/2016 at 10:40 PM, kieyra said:

Hmm. The pilot was fantastic but they're not maintaining that intensity. I know people expressed concerns about this turning into Oz--and there's a reason I never watched Oz. 

I can get "kooky lawyer" on Better Call Saul. (Although these days that means Chuck too, so maybe Stone is better. But I'm so over the eczema.)

I understand why some find Naz and the actor compelling, but he has so little dialogue I'm having a very hard time engaging with him. He and his parents all seem stunned into a complete stupor--which is understandable but not that interesting to watch. ALL of the dialogue is a little too minimalist for me. I guess this is a "director's" show, but unless they absolutely knock it out of the park, like in the pilot, a lot of those subtleties are lost on me.

The prison-menace stuff was all so by the book that in the end I was more concerned for the cat. Thanks for taking it to a kill shelter, asshole. And yes, I get the freaking allegory.

I am one of the few who do not have any love for the actor.  I see a Pakistani dude with an obvious nose job... an thirty year old man who should know better then act like such a fool.  He is a blank and not youthful enough to play the dewy innocence needed for this character to be believable.

I have some family that hails not too far from where Naz's family originally hales from and let me tell you if I was in this situation, there would have been two murders.  Andrea's murder, followed by my murder, as my father would have killed me for being such an idiot and endangering the family's livelihood.

I will also admit that I am projecting, because I am jealous that Naz's family is so much nicer then mine.  I also have issues with the way males get away with and are given everything in this society, while females are treated like dirt (I am female).  So, I am probably not being objective.

In short, I will not be buying any of the actor who plays Naz's rap records any time soon (yes, he is a rapper).

Edited July 26, 2016 by qtpye

[clb1016]

1 hour ago, Neurochick said:

I think things would have been different if Naz himself called the police and explained what happened.  The cops might have arrested him, but they would have looked around at her life.  Did she live in that brownstone alone?  How was she paying the bills, the taxes?  Did she have many friends?  Who were they?

By Naz basically trying to escape, he made himself more of a suspect. 

All good questions.  And I'll bet the cops are looking into them, if only because the DA will want the information (e.g., was Andrea in the habit of bringing strange men home, or did Naz force himself into her apartment).  And although a lot seems to have happend between Ep. 1 and Ep. 3, the amount of time passed is probably only a few days.  The only point I was trying to make about charging Naz is that there would have been a tremendous outcry from the press and public if they hadn't charged Naz, given the seemingly overwhelming evidence against him and the (at this point) the absence of any other viable suspect.  It would be one thing if the cops could say "well, we're looking at several persons of interest" but quite another to say "there's just no evidence right now that anyone else was involved."

[kieyra]

1 hour ago, qtpye said:

I am one of the few who do not have any love for the actor.  I see a Pakistani dude with an obvious nose job... an thirty year old man who should know better then act like such a fool.  He is a blank and not youthful enough to play the dewy innocence needed for this character to be believable.

I have some family that hails not too far from where Naz's family originally hales from and let me tell you if I was in this situation, there would have been two murders.  Andrea's murder, followed by my murder, as my father would have killed me for being such an idiot and endangering the family's livelihood.

I will also admit that I am projecting, because I am jealous that Naz's family is so much nicer then mine.  I also have issues with the way males get away with and are given everything in this society, while females are treated like dirt (I am female).  So, I am probably not being objective.

I appreciate your insight into this. With the stuff with Naz's family, I'm never sure if their benevolence/passivity is reading strangely to me due to some inherent bias (meaning I'm a white person who doesn't know any Pakistanis). I've mentioned before that I would think immigrants to New York would have to be pretty tough and resourceful--but I've also never been there. So all I have are assumptions, and the feeling that most people in this situation would be a lot more wound up than his parents seem to be.

There's a serial killer drama on Netflix called The Fall. It has a similar tone, in that everyone always speaks quietly and slowly, like they're on downers, and no one ever seems to get worked up about or have a sense of urgency about anything, even when they're chasing down a murderer. I know there's a time and a place for 'understated' but it tends to bug me in a crime-drama context. 

Variety referred to Naz as a teenager, heh. (He's supposed to be 23, but yes the actor is ten years older than that and from certain angles it shows.) I wonder now if they used the word teenager just so they could tie it in to Serial (which the article in question did). 

[armadillo1224]

I grew up in the same neighborhood as the protagonist (Jackson Heights, Queens) and am also a South Asian immigrant (this was half the reason I was really excited to see this show--this is not a community I've ever seen portrayed on TV before) and the parents' reactions have mostly seemed realistic to me--the one unusual thing is the lack of crying or emotional displays. At first, I could understand it as them being in shock but they've consistently been very buttoned down about their emotional reactions which, given that their whole lives have basically been ruined out of nowhere, seems unusual and is certainly not a cultural trait. Also, I think that though initially, they would be focused on nothing but concern for their son, eventually, some anger and resentment at his terrible decisions (the alcohol and drugs especially, not to mention stealing the taxi) would seep through.

What I have found relatable and realistic is their incredible sense of vulnerability. First-generation immigrant lives are very, very fragile and one wrong decision can completely upend what people have built for decades because there is not multi-generational wealth, no useful social networks, no connections, no real understanding of the system.

Edited July 26, 2016 by armadillo1224

[qtpye]

Quote

I grew up in the same neighborhood as the protagonist (Jackson Heights, Queens) and am also a South Asian immigrant (this was half the reason I was really excited to see this show--this is not a community I've ever seen portrayed on TV before) and the parents' reactions have mostly seemed realistic to me--the one unusual thing is the lack of crying or emotional displays. At first, I could understand it as them being in shock but they've consistently been very buttoned down about their emotional reactions which, given that their whole lives have basically been ruined out of nowhere, seems unusual and is certainly not a cultural trait. Also, I think that though eventually, they would be focused on nothing but concern for their son, eventually, some anger and resentment at his terrible decisions (the alcohol and drugs especially, not to mention stealing the taxi) would seep through

I thought it might hit too close to home for me to be comfortable, but so far it's been okay.  I think Naz is being portrayed as typical kid and his ethnicity is not all that defines him, to the characters in the show and the audience, which was a relief to me.

My family is just way more smart and savvy then these people.  I mean they would not be talking to that that Chandra chick in an Apu accent going "You are so berry berry pretty, beti".  They would be giving her a giant side eye and understand immediately why the she was there (as would anyone with at least a low double digit IQ).

It also jumps out at me that the father is Iranian, not Pakistani, but that is being nit picky, so I'll allow it (just kidding, not that delusional about my importance).

[Drogo]

8 minutes ago, qtpye said:

My family is just way more smart and savvy then these people.  I mean they would not be talking to that that Chandra chick in an Apu accent going "You are so berry berry pretty, beti". 

But actually I don't think that's what they were saying to each other at all, right?  I remember wondering if Mrs. Khan was intentionally mistranslating their conversation to Crowe. 

[qtpye]

No, she was not saying that Chandra was pretty to Chandra, but to her boss.  She (in a time when her son is being held in Rikers) was commenting on Chandra's lovely grasp of Hindi when she was talking to Chandra.  However, there could have been more to the conversation, as I was sort of getting fed up with the episode to pay attention, though there were parts that I enjoyed.

[armadillo1224]

Quote

But actually I don't think that's what they were saying to each other at all, right?  I remember wondering if Mrs. Khan was intentionally mistranslating their conversation to Crowe. 

That is what she said, she said she was pretty and that she spoke Hindi well. It seemed like a pretty standard polite thing for an older woman to say to a young woman.

I didn't see it as an "Apu accent" at all--that is, from what I can tell, the Indian actress's actual accent. 

[Tara Ariano]

In case you missed it, here's the Previously.TV post on the episode!

Battle Of The New York City Attorneys: Law & Order's Ben Stone vs. The Night Of's Jack Stone

But who will prevail, the prosecution or the defense? Sarah D. Bunting reviews the evidence.

[iMonrey]

Quote

Not quite following you, as I don't see how Zellner could "know" Avery is guilty or innocent either. 

I'm familiar with Kathleen Zellner but she only takes on cases after having researched them thoroughly and convinced herself the accused is innocent. Crowe didn't look into the case at all when she made that phone call and asked for Nasir's parents' address. So at this point I have absolutely no idea what her motivation is in taking on the case, pro bono or not. This guy isn't a celebrity and all the evidence points to his guilt, so I can't imagine why she'd want the publicity of representing him.

[cattykit]

On 7/25/2016 at 1:25 PM, iMonrey said:

Is it wrong that I feel worse for the cat than I do for Nasir? Yes, I'm one of those crazy animal people who cares more about animals than humans. So sue me. But my heart just went out to that poor cat.

If I find out anything has happened to that cat...  And who are those two ugly guys to call that beautiful kitty "ugly?"

I got my first kitten from a kill shelter and never again.  I couldn't get out of the place without sobbing at every cage for the babies I couldn't take with me, knowing their eventual fate. 

MKW seems to specialize in criminals with a slightly tarnished heart of gold (Omar, Chalky).  If he's for real this time, chalk up another one.

[djsunyc]

it looks like the dad's two taxi partners are going to bring up charges on nas for theft so they can get their taxi back.

[clb1016]

That might be the way Stone gets back into the case.

[djsunyc]

10 minutes ago, clb1016 said:

That might be the way Stone gets back into the case.

exactly.  i think he will discover something about the taxi - this is his way to get his hands on evidence.

allergies (skin and asthma) and the cat is going to play a big role imho.

[Neurochick]

I thought one of the cops would take the cat home, it's well known that Bratton, the police commissioner in NYC, is an animal lover.

[The Hound Lives]

37 minutes ago, djsunyc said:

exactly.  i think he will discover something about the taxi - this is his way to get his hands on evidence.

allergies (skin and asthma) and the cat is going to play a big role imho.

Steven Zaillian had said in an interview about this production that 

Spoiler

Stone's eczema will play a big part in the story in the final episode. 

I don't know how much of a game changer it could be but all the little bits we might get annoyed by could prove to be "AH HA" moments. That is why I feel the need to watch episodes multiple times. Catching things that might not seem like anything, in the long run might change the course. This is so far beyond the classic whodunit. We really only have one suspect. There is no doubt what type of weapon was used (even if they don't have the actual weapon). And we have no clue of motive. Nobody has a motive yet. 

 

[clb1016]

If all episodes were available, I would already have bingewatched this series in one sitting.  Multiple times.

[kieyra]

1 hour ago, cattykit said:

MKW seems to specialize in criminals with a slightly tarnished heart of gold (Omar, Chalky).  If he's for real this time, chalk up another one.

I thought I wrote a post about this at some point in this thread (speculating on Freddy's motives, and pointing out that the actor's typecasting makes it difficult to know how to read the character), but I don't seem to have successfully posted it. But yeah, I've had the same thought. My basic post was along the lines of "I don't think Freddy has good intentions even though we may see him as a possible mentor/savior ... but then again it's MKW". I almost wish we'd gotten a slightly less well-known actor for that role. 

Edited July 26, 2016 by kieyra

[qtpye]

 

3 hours ago, armadillo1224 said:

I didn't see it as an "Apu accent" at all--that is, from what I can tell, the Indian actress's actual accent. 

This is how she speaks...her accent is somewhat exaggerated...most likely to fit the role.  Listen to her after she says her name.

Quote

That is what she said, she said she was pretty and that she spoke Hindi well. It seemed like a pretty standard polite thing for an older woman to say to a young woman.

Also, she is barely just ten years older then the actress who plays Chandra, which is hardly what I think of as an "Older woman/Younger women dynamic", even though technically it is older.  I guess I would call it more of a big sister age range, but I get your point that she is supposed to a somewhat older maternal figure on this show.

[kieyra]

1 hour ago, qtpye said:

 

 

This is how she speaks...her accent is somewhat exaggerated...most likely to fit the role.  Listen to her after she says her name.

Also, she is barely just ten years older then the actress who plays Chandra, which is hardly what I think of as an "Older woman/Younger women dynamic", even though technically it is older.  I guess I would call it more of a big sister age range, but I get your point that she is supposed to a somewhat older maternal figure on this show.

I get the sense they cast both of Naz's parents younger to try to convince us of his youth.

[The Hound Lives]

I don't know how old the actress is who plays the Mom but the way she is styled, I would say both parents look to be mid-40's. If Naz is 23, then it visually makes sense for me. But I also thought Riz Ahmed was mid-20's, maybe 25, so I was surprised to read he was 33. It also makes me feel less creepy because I think he is nice to look at (even more so in "Trishna").

[numbnut]

From an interview with Ahmed...

“Something that I think is important,” he continues, “is to understand how many of the blanks we fill in ourselves. When someone sits there staring quietly, you bring your own preconceptions to the table about how they are staring and what’s going on in their head.” Ahmed said it was co-showrunner Steven Zaillian’s intention not to “telegraph” or foreshadow too much for viewers, at least not right away. “The show is shot in that way as well, where you’ve got a lot of negative space, a lot of darkness in the frame,” he adds. “It’s about what you project onto the blank slate of Naz, into each frame, into those dark corners.”

I love that the show isn't tipping its hand with tons of foreshadowing. Hearing everyone's perspective makes these PTV discussions more interesting.

[qtpye]

On 7/25/2016 at 8:13 PM, clb1016 said:

As much as I'm loving this show, there are a number of things that bother me; Naz's parents' passivity is one of them.  If your kid were arrested for murder and you were absolutely convinced he was innocent, wouldn't you be out breaking down doors to find the best lawyer you could?  Mortgage your house?  Sell everything you own?  These two sit back waiting for lawyers to come to them.  They seem entirely too willing to wait and see how the situation plays out.

 

On 7/25/2016 at 8:21 PM, kieyra said:

This has been bothering me too. I get that they're still in shock. I get that I've watched too many crime procedurals with screaming/sobbing/hysterical relatives. I get that there may be some cultural thing going on that I don't understand. But it seems like emigrating to New York City from another country must require a certain amount of mental toughness and ability to deal with government bureaucracy. They act like they just touched down from another planet.

 

I think that it has been decided that  Naz and his parents are going to be portrayed as "sweet and simple".  I have no idea if this has anything to do with their ethnicity or religion, it might not matter.

In order for the audience to get on Naz's side (regardless of this skin color or religious preference) we have to believe this is a really good kid, from a really good family, who would never harm a fly.  Naz's people have to be as doe eyed as he is, so it is even more of an impact if the justice system screws them over.

This is just my guess.

[izabella]

I watched all three episodes last night, and thought the first was very compelling.  These last two episodes are good, but I've lost the enthusiasm I had in the first episode.  I actually don't want to watch a show about how the justice system screws relatively innocent people over.  That is just depressing and there's little "win" for the good guys even if the "good guy" is eventually released from jail. 

I wanted to watch the show they started in the first episode - a compelling murder mystery with smart detectives and legal people who try to figure out who really did it, not who they can arrest quickly to close the books.  A child would have questions about Naz being the killer, what with the bloodbath in the bedroom and his relatively squeaky clean clothes/body - you don't even need a blood spatter or forensics expert to tell you that.  If the cops can't see that and say, "Hmmm, maybe we ought to look into who the victim is and who might actually want to kill her" it becomes a show built entirely on stupid police and forensics experts.

I still think this is a quality show, but not the show I thought it would be after the pilot. 

[scrb]

How do you know he's innocent?

[izabella]

I don't know that he's innocent.  But there are enough questions that create ambiguity that the police choosing NOT to investigate anything else about the crime (like who else might have wanted to kill the victim) leaves me feeling like this show is mostly about how the justice system screws over someone innocent.  If he is guilty, this wouldn't be a story about innocents getting screwed over...it would be justice for him to be arrested and in jail without bail. 

My point was I'd rather they focus on investigating the crime, rather than pushing a conviction on someone so that we can watch how screwed up the justice system is.

[clb1016]

Even if he did kill her, he wasn't what one would call a hardened criminal before going to Rikers and will certainly emerge a changed man.  But I'm with you in wanting to see less of how cruel our criminal justice system is (which, unfortunately, is not news).

[Portia]

On 7/24/2016 at 10:32 PM, Princess Sparkle said:

Minor thing - I realize it was in service to make the "Cairo, Egypt or Cairo, Illinois" turn of phrase, but clearly no one on the show is actually from Illinois, or they would know that the town here is pronounced "Cay-ro". 

Missouri native here. That drove me crazy, too! 

[bagatelle]

5 hours ago, scrb said:

How do you know he's innocent?

I thought the show wanted us to think he's innocent.  We can't be sure, but they aren't showing us anything to make us think he did it.

Edited July 28, 2016 by bagatelle

[Joimiaroxeu]

OMG, I gasped when the guard said, "Traction." We saw Freddy having sex with the female guard but apparently he's also grooming Naz? Or not...

Ugh, veal. I almost gagged when Freddy was describing how veal is created. It's like--IMO--the flip side of hot dogs.