S02.E10: The Gamble

[Scaeva]

Nicole hasn't had it easy.

Each drop off site has its own disadvantages and advantages. While she lucked out a bit in being positioned near a stream where the salmon were plentiful, the drawback to that is that it means a fuckton of predator activity. She's had to deal with living in close proximity to bears more than any of the other contestants, and over the last two seasons we've had multiple people tap from close encounters with bears or other predators like wolves.

[ClareWalks]

52 minutes ago, Scaeva said:

Nicole hasn't had it easy.

Each drop off site has its own disadvantages and advantages. While she lucked out a bit in being positioned near a stream where the salmon were plentiful, the drawback to that is that it means a fuckton of predator activity. She's had to deal with living in close proximity to bears more than any of the other contestants, and over the last two seasons we've had multiple people tap from close encounters with bears or other predators like wolves.

Exactly! I don't understand how people think she got off so easy when predators have been the #1 reason for early tapouts. Her site would have terrified most competitors.

[humbleopinion]

 https://start1.org/red-tide/effects/

Can I eat seafood during a red tide event?

Commercially caught seafood (including seafood at local restaurants and grocery stores) is safe to eat because it is closely monitored for K. Brevis toxins. The State of Florida quickly closes shellfish beds in red tide areas and will not re-open them until shellfish are safe to eat. For recreationally caught seafood, it is important to follow a few guidelines. Finfish are safe to eat if they are caught live and filleted. Crabs and shrimp are also okay to eat because the toxins are not absorbed into edible tissues of these animals.

It is not safe to eat bivalves (clams, mussels and oysters) from red tide areas because they are filter-feeders and the toxins are absorbed into their tissues. To check the health status of shellfish beds, contact the Florida Department of Agriculture and Consumer Services. Remember, cooking does not destroy red tide toxins. Do not ever eat distressed or dead animals regardless of whether red tide is in the area.

Consumption of shellfish that are contaminated by K. brevis toxins can cause Neurotoxic Shellfish Poisoning (NSP). NSP symptoms usually appear within a couple of hours of eating contaminated shellfish and they last for a few days. Symptoms can include: gastro-intestinal distress, reversal of hot and cold sensations, headache, chills and generalized muscle weakness.

We got teased in the promos for the upcoming episode with Joe holding up a big steaming pot of red tide clams up to the camera.

So when Jose digs into his bivalve feast he will get his answer within a few hours if it was a mistake and IF he can gut out the symptoms (pun intended) of poisoning for a few days he won't have to tap out.

Thinking Jose will just snack on a couple of the clams instead of gorging on the whole pot like he was at his neighborhood Joe's Crab Shack location.

[Snarklepuss]

So far Nicole hasn't had any close encounters with predators, though.  Of course that may change in future eps.  Anytime we've seen them from her camera they've been far enough away not to be particularly threatening and it's only when she's voluntarily entered into their "turf" (like this last episode when she scavenged for leftovers) that she's gotten a little close for comfort with them.  I would presume that if she'd had any close encounters like Tracy did we would have seen them.   I am sure they all have seen evidence of predators around but it's the people who get spooked by a close encounter (or are particularly wussy like the first guy that went home) that tap out just on that alone.  So I still don't think she's been particularly courageous compared to the others.  I see bears in my back yard on a regular basis and I don't get all spooked.  They would very rarely pose any threat to me even that close and even when I have been outside with them right back there in the woods as soon as they see or hear me they run the other way.  Not that I'd want to get that close to them, but I don't think Nicole has had to worry about them being that close or we would have seen more evidence of them in her videos.  The video we have seen has shown them clearly in the distance, certainly much further away than in my back yard, lol.

Edited July 3, 2016 by Snarklepuss

[riverheightsnancy]

I just read a little about red tide and it appears that the first believed occurrence was in British Columbia in 1793. That was pretty interesting.  Also, once the weather picks up and the water moves more, the shell fish may be more edible because some of the factors for red tide (it is an algae bloom-I think that I had red tide in my pool last year! lol) are still water, sunlight, food for the stuff to grow, stuff like that. I think that they previewed that the mussels that Jose got are on something that came ashore. He might be ok because it came from deeper, moving waters. But, I do not know much about it. We will see. With the editing this year, it is likely another "drama" fake out. WHEN will we see the wolf???

[humbleopinion]

http://www.alaskafloatsmyboat.com/beachcombing/2013/8/26/harvesting-bullwhip-kelp

For those curious about how to preserve bull kelp.

Thinking there isn't enough days of sun to dehydrate the kelp properly and there is enough fresh in her cove to sustain her for the rest of her endeavor.

That concludes the cooking portion of the daily snark.

Edited July 3, 2016 by humbleopinion
More nonsense

[SRTouch]

34 minutes ago, ClareWalks said:

Exactly! I don't understand how people think she got off so easy when predators have been the #1 reason for early tapouts. Her site would have terrified most competitors.

Couldn't agree more! Both season's early taps were "Oh no! Bears!!! Gotta get out of here!" Nicole, despite attempts by the editors to make us think she was running in terror, was more "Bears! Hmmm, wonder what they're eating? I have sea asparagus here, wonder if that's what they're eating, or maybe they have berries over there? Look, they're fishing at the mouth of that stream. That might be a good spot to put my net." The seals were actually kind of a surprise for me, but I was halfway expecting the bears to start eating her fish. Guess it makes sense, though. The seals have a bigger area to hunt, while the bears find the fish concentrated in a small stream.

Hungry times may well be coming for her, but I'm hoping she shows us some new food sources. She was my early choice to win, and I haven't given up on her yet. I agree, though, with those who have pointed out she hasn't shown us that drive to win, yet, but then that drive will only become apparent when times get bad. That said, I wouldn't want her to try to push through if she feels the stress is causing her health problems with the MS.

Just sort of a side thought occurred while I was binge watching Last Alaskans first season. I think Jose may well be the most skilled primitive survivalist from either season. He talks about spending time with various indigenous peoples' elders learning their techniques. As someone said, we saw that when he carved a his jigging stick, a close copy of the Hailstones family's gear on Life Below Zero. Anyway, my new choice to come on and show us how to do it is Edna Korth - little ol' grandma who has been living off the grid for decades and would be one of the elders Jose might come to learn from.

[seasick]

I agree that strong bear presence could be an immediate deal killer for some participants, but I can't see any of those who remain, and even Randy, Mike or Justin being spooked at that spot.  The bears there were a down-side  but not a huge one over-all.  I think the bear and seal fish-stealing balanced out the advantage of the abundant fish.

I think I read that the red-tide strain in VI is not as strongas the strain in FL.  but I still think it's ridiculous to chance it.  Are the dungeness crabs only at Dave's cove? ? 

Surprised Jose (and others) are not crabbing or even thinking about it.  Or--making other 'food catchers'.  Shame on him if mussels are his only resort of a food choice.  (I have to think mussels are the Worst of the bivalves. Clams can go deep but mussels cling on rocks and things kind of like a barnacle does.  They are higher in the water where the most danger is.  The deeper the catch the better with red-tide)  

I agree you can 'make your own luck'  and stave off the boredom ghosts (looking at you Larry) by making crab traps, trot lines, fish traps etc. or just 'going fishing".  I can't figure the Jose edit.  We saw him ambling by with two fish as though no big deal.  Does he have food there or Not??   We have to watch YouTube to see what the hell else he's doing??  <sigh>  I'll stop..  : )    

[Intuition]

1 hour ago, SRTouch said:

Couldn't agree more! Both season's early taps were "Oh no! Bears!!! Gotta get out of here!" Nicole, despite attempts by the editors to make us think she was running in terror, was more "Bears! Hmmm, wonder what they're eating? I have sea asparagus here, wonder if that's what they're eating, or maybe they have berries over there? Look, they're fishing at the mouth of that stream. That might be a good spot to put my net." The seals were actually kind of a surprise for me, but I was halfway expecting the bears to start eating her fish. Guess it makes sense, though. The seals have a bigger area to hunt, while the bears find the fish concentrated in a small stream.

Nicole could afford to wonder what the bears were eating because they were far enough away from her camp for her not to feel unsafe.  In fact, in earlier episodes she mentioned that they were no threat as long as they stayed at a safe distance on their side of the cove, which it looks like they did.  They even looked far away and zoomed in in all the camera shots we saw of them.  I actually think it was the other way around and the show was trying to make it look like the bears were more of a threat than they really were.

[Addicted]

All I was saying about Nicole, is that now that her luck has run out, we will see if she can handle the bad as well as the good.  I'm curious to see if her positive attitude will hold up if things get tough.

[lidarose9]

Re: Nicole and the seals eating her fish: why does she not guard the net? I would just figure out the tides and wait around and throw rocks at the seals. Or something.

[ClareWalks]

I dunno, she'd have to sit there for like 12 hours. She'd probably only do that if she were extremely desperate for food. Plus that area totally floods at high tide so she'd have to throw rocks very far.

[Jipijapa]

In terms of attitude, Nicole seems a lot like this year's Sam... someone who wasn't taken seriously in the beginning, but whose sunny demeanor may be a factor in being long-lasting.  

And while David may be a bit of a dork, I would put him #1 in the motivation department, as he really really REEEAAALLLLY wants that money.  No psychological stuff about inner demons for him.  No yadda yadda about "doing everything I came here to do."

(Hey, does anyone besides me want to see some of these guys guest star on Mantracker -- as the prey???)

[Quilt Fairy]

7 hours ago, Jipijapa said:

(Hey, does anyone besides me want to see some of these guys guest star on Mantracker -- as the prey???)

Is that show still on? It hasn't aired in the US since they fired the original mantracker (whose name I can't remember!) because he wanted more than the pittance they were paying him.

[rainsmom]

16 minutes ago, Quilt Fairy said:

Is that show still on? It hasn't aired in the US since they fired the original mantracker (whose name I can't remember!) because he wanted more than the pittance they were paying him.

Terry Grant. Damn, he was sexy.

It lasted, like, half a season with the new guy.

I used to dream of competing on that show. Unfortunately, I'm fat and couldn't run to my mailbox.

[Joan Z]

Talking about bear across the river reminded me of a scene of Joe (the guy who lost ferro rod) last season when he saw bear across the river. But since the bear was far enough, there's no reason for him to feel threatened or scared. I think his reaction was like, "oh look there's a bear." and then continue scouting the area like nothing happened. Total opposite with desmond who look like he almost wet his pants when he saw bear scat lol

[lidarose9]

On 7/3/2016 at 11:35 AM, ClareWalks said:

I dunno, she'd have to sit there for like 12 hours. She'd probably only do that if she were extremely desperate for food. Plus that area totally floods at high tide so she'd have to throw rocks very far.

But what else does she have to do all day? She knows the tides so she can anticipate the timing. And see, if it was me, I'd be designing and building a small catapult to lob at seals. Or a seal scarecrow device of some kind. I know seals are smart and tenacious as hell when they find a food source, but I have the advantage of opposable thumbs.

[ClareWalks]

10 minutes ago, lidarose9 said:

But what else does she have to do all day? 

I'd imagine she is pretty busy gathering/cutting firewood, keeping the fire going, boiling/drinking water, reinforcing the shelter, gathering medicinal and edible plants, preparing/eating food, and other such daily survival things.

[rainsmom]

Firewood is CRITICAL this time of year. She could gather all day every day and not have enough for winter.

[seasick]

On 7/3/2016 at 2:28 PM, lidarose9 said:

Re: Nicole and the seals eating her fish: why does she not guard the net? I would just figure out the tides and wait around and throw rocks at the seals. Or something.

Would the tides even matter?  Seals can dive.  The minute a fish gets caught in the net the seal can go down for the grab.  The net could be completely immersed at high tide and still be robbed.  She may do better with a fish trap that the seals cannot reach into. (Not that they wouldn't try)   And a crab trap NIcole!   C'mon girl, you know about Dungeness crabs!    

[riverheightsnancy]

I am wondering if there is some restriction about hurting or harming seals? I remember (and maybe I am thinking of another show?) when Mitch found the dead seal he said that he could harvest the pelt because it was "already" dead. You know how on Survivor, sometimes there are restrictions for animals or sea life that a country tells the contestants that they cannot harm or eat? I think turtles are one (depending on the location). I am wondering why I keep thinking that Nicole cannot do anything that might harm the seals? Does anyone remember that from this show or the pre-show episode? 

[holly4755]

I am pretty sure the seals and otters are protected. I am more curious about Canadian geese and if they are still protected. Off to google.

ETA - no, they are not and that would make a heck of a meal since they can weigh 40 pounds. My dog and I were chased by a flock of them when we went through the park during nesting season - they were flying low and swooping at our heads - they are big birds and outweighed my then puppy. 

Edited July 5, 2016 by holly4755

[rainsmom]

It may be a hunting season issue rather than protected, per se -- though seals may be huntable only by indigenous  peoples.

[riverheightsnancy]

We have infestations of the Canadian Geese here in NJ and they flock to man-made lakes in townhouse communities. They say that they make 6 pounds of poop (it's GREEN) each day. They make quite the mess and many places look at draining the lakes and catch basins which attractt them. Some places want to kill them because there are so many and they make such a mess. 

[Quilt Fairy]

Yes, Canada can have their fucking geese back. I don't think they can be killed because they are - theoretically - migratory, so they're protected by federal law. On the other hand, it's created quite a cottage industry of methods to prevent them from making a home where they are not wanted. For a while it was dogs, or even cutouts of dogs. The latest I'm aware of was put in place here at the Morton Arboretum. They put in tall grasses/reeds/rushes in the water around the shoreline. Apparently this triggers an inborn warning mechanism in the geese about predators in the grasses and they don't stop. 

[seasick]

^^^^^^^  interesting!

[Snarklepuss]

This article talks nicely about the Canada Goose but it explains why they suddenly made a comeback a few decades ago.  We have one man to thank for this pest.  I never saw them growing up in New York and I was an avid bird watcher!  Then suddenly about 25 - 30 years ago or so they were EVERYWHERE.

http://www.walkingmountains.org/2015/03/reintroduction-of-the-canada-goose/

This article goes into more about their protection and "nuisance" status since reintroduction:

http://www.examiner.com/article/canada-geese-go-from-re-introduced-to-nuisance-species-40-years

Edited July 5, 2016 by Snarklepuss

[ProfCrash]

There are places in Maryland and Virginia that are culling the Canadian geese population because of the problems they cause.

[qtpye]

We had a Canada Geese problem at my work.  They dealt with it by placing fake snarling foxes all over the outside lawns.

David was so wrong, it is the goose not the eagle, who is the real asshole of the Canadian bird world.

Edited July 5, 2016 by qtpye

[riverheightsnancy]

1 hour ago, qtpye said:

We had a Canadian Geese problem at my work.  They dealt with it by placing fake snarling foxes all over the outside lawns.

David was so wrong, it is the goose not the eagle, who is the real asshole of the Canadian bird world.

Hilarious!  I would love to hear David espouse on the difference between Canadian Geese and the immigrant Canadian Geese. Do they have green cards or are they on a tourist visa ? Are they now American Geese? Are they here legally? Do we need to build a wall? (sorry, couldn't help it). lol

[holly4755]

I am for building a wall against the geese (heh wall of what? where?), our parks are pretty unwalkable now, since my border collie died. I used to let her loose when we were alone and she chased them away without harming them, People pay good money for dogs to chase the geese, but out local police were not amused. So they put up wooden statues of dogs, does not good. I would let my now hound dog loose to chase them but she would never come back when called so when she chases them I have to follow and get tired way too fast so most geese are undisturbed..

Some places the geese are no longer protected and you can hunt them out of season in the US, I just could not nail down the rule on V.I.

 

ETA tides - Tides in Florida are small (but enough to cause flooding), tides in Maryland are about a foot. Tides in NYC are several feet - the further north of the equator you go, the higher the tides. at VI it is probably well over 10 feet. You can't protect a 4 foot Gill net in that by watching it . It would be too far under the water.

Edited July 5, 2016 by holly4755

[riverheightsnancy]

Are they edible? Do they taste good?  

[holly4755]

ever hear of the christmas goose? 

http://www.theatlantic.com/health/archive/2011/10/my-first-helping-of-canada-goose/246881/

Quote

But ask a hunter and it's a different story: Those in the know call the Canada Goose the roast beef of the skies.

[rainsmom]

It's currently open season on Canada geese in that area of Vancouver Island, so if any of our intrepid adventurers can figure out how to hunt a goose, they're free to do so.

[mlp]

I can't resist pointing out that the birds in question are called Canada Geese, not Canadian Geese.  I know that's counter-intuitive but there you go.

We have thousands of them in my city and I've often wondered why Illinois doesn't change the law on the books to allow people to hunt them for food.  One bird would feed a large family with leftovers to boot.

[riverheightsnancy]

13 minutes ago, holly4755 said:

ever hear of the christmas goose? 

http://www.theatlantic.com/health/archive/2011/10/my-first-helping-of-canada-goose/246881/

Wow, after reading that I am surprised more places that have the Geese issue don't organize authorized hunts for bow hunters or something like that. And, it could help stock soup kitchens as well.  I don't recall, has anyone seen a Canada Goose on the show?

Edited July 5, 2016 by riverheightsnancy

[piequinn35]

Lol fucking Larry had the time jumped from 38 to 50 days...

I think he will tap out next week. 

[riverheightsnancy]

21 minutes ago, piequinn35 said:

Lol fucking Larry had the time jumped from 38 to 50 days...

I think he will tap out next week. 

Agreed. Yeah, it made me wonder what the other 3 were up to that entire time. 

[roamyn]

9 hours ago, mlp said:

I can't resist pointing out that the birds in question are called Canada Geese, not Canadian Geese.  I know that's counter-intuitive but there you go.

We have thousands of them in my city and I've often wondered why Illinois doesn't change the law on the books to allow people to hunt them for food.  One bird would feed a large family with leftovers to boot.

And you can be prosecuted for even TOUCHING a nest.  That was one of the first things I was warned abt when we transferred there 8 yrs ago (moved away last year Thank God).

[Quilt Fairy]

27 minutes ago, roamyn said:

And you can be prosecuted for even TOUCHING a nest.  That was one of the first things I was warned abt when we transferred there 8 yrs ago (moved away last year Thank God).

Except there are people who get certified or get a permit or something, and they are allowed to find the nests and shake the eggs so they don't hatch. Yes, we are that desperate to get rid of those geese.

[formerlyfreedom]

Hey, can we go ahead and take the Canada geese and other off topic conversation over to the Small Talk topic, please? And thank you!

[trolley]

Speaking of what they can and cannot eat...those crabs are under-sized. They keep calling them Dungeness but I'm pretty sure they are red rock crabs. Dungeness need to be a minimum of 6.5 inches across the widest part of the back and Rock crabs need to be 4.5 inches. None that I saw were even close.  Also, you're only allowed to keep males...didn't notice anyone checking to see...

[beatu]

All seasons, they have been quite clueless about how important it is to have food intake, and not just protein, but carbs and fats. You need fats to keep your guts moving, and you need carbs to keep your brain working (worth a hoot) and you need such by the end of the first week, not well into the second month! Long before then, you are weak and cant think properly. 

They can get the same sort of subsistence permit that the Innuit and Native Americans get, which lets them take ANYTHING if it's needed for food.

On 7/5/2016 at 12:26 PM, holly4755 said:

I am for building a wall against the geese (heh wall of what? where?), our parks are pretty unwalkable now, since my border collie died. I used to let her loose when we were alone and she chased them away without harming them, People pay good money for dogs to chase the geese, but out local police were not amused. So they put up wooden statues of dogs, does not good. I would let my now hound dog loose to chase them but she would never come back when called so when she chases them I have to follow and get tired way too fast so most geese are undisturbed..

Some places the geese are no longer protected and you can hunt them out of season in the US, I just could not nail down the rule on V.I.

 

ETA tides - Tides in Florida are small (but enough to cause flooding), tides in Maryland are about a foot. Tides in NYC are several feet - the further north of the equator you go, the higher the tides. at VI it is probably well over 10 feet. You can't protect a 4 foot Gill net in that by watching it . It would be too far under the water.

A simple google search shows that the tides on Vancouver Island's shores are  6 ft and in any case, you can drive some marker stakes out there and find out where the water never gets more than 4 ft deep, ya know.

Edited August 3, 2018 by beatu

[beatu]

On 7/4/2016 at 6:17 PM, rainsmom said:

Firewood is CRITICAL this time of year. She could gather all day every day and not have enough for winter.

Google says that it rarely even freezes on the shores of Vancouver island.  No amount of wood is going to help them in Mongolia. They wont last even one month after the first hard freeze, cause they didn't make netting and catch enough fish the first month of the show. They should have caught  600 lbs of fish in that month.