Season 18 Live Feed Discussion: Their Lives are Almost as Boring as Ours!

[gunderda]

If Nicole wins the final HOH i think Day absolutely votes for her.  She said on the show "I just might have to vote for this girl" in disbelief. 

I would also like to see if Paul can put together a coherent speech as to why he should win.  He has a habit of being long winded to where it's too much and too phoney.   I think James would give the most sincere F2 speech. 

[Wings]

Random thoughts. 

I was impressed with Michele's painting of the snake wrapped around the tree branch; it was very good, better than the others that we were able to glimpse. 

So silly that Nicole is seen as a snake.  She was loyal to her alliance and brought information back to them.  That is part of playing BB.  

I was going to vote for Day as AFP but that fight reminded me her insidious, broken record technique of communicating.  ugh  

I will be fine with Nicole or Paul winning.  I don't want to see James in F2.  I think he could win against either and I don't like that idea. :^) 

Natalie is a pretty girl but when she 'dresses up' with her extensions, eyelashes and dresses, she looks tacky.  

I don't think the jury house fight was staged at all.  Michele's one comment set the ball rolling and I don't think she had a clue that it would have had such an impact.    

[Irishsecra]

35 minutes ago, AbsoluteShower said:

I think the thing that works in both James and Nicole's favour against Paul is that he has been absolutely TERRIBLE at jury management. As has Nicole, in fact. She has openly said she has NO connection to anyone in jury apart from Corey, and she made absolutely NO effort to be friendly to anyone while they were in the house. 

Paul is convinced that everybody in jury hates James, but I'm not so sure.

I think from last nights jury segment it seems like they are rooting for James. I really think what day said to Vic on the wall was to plant the seed to help James.

talking about jury management. Fans were pissed that James told the evicted house guests before the live show so they weren't blindsided. But I am sure the houseguests appreciated it.

James told day and he told Paulie a few hours before eviction he was flipping on z. He let Paulie scream his head off at him while Paul acted like he was shocked. I actually think manning up to Paulie got his respect whereas Paul never admitted his betrayal. I think not blindsiding them saved him in the DE.

hate to agree with Paulie on anything but James probably played the best social game in the house. The fact he always stayed calm and never held a grudge helped him immensely.

Edited September 15, 2016 by Irishsecra

[jumper sage]

Just seeing on Jokers where James agrees to throw a comp to Nicole.  He is pretty sure he can throw it.  He must not be aware that we all see ALL the comps he threw.

It will probably be James/Nicole f2.  I want to see when Paul realizes that James fucked him and it dawns on him that Natalie was correct in trusting James ruined her game.  She was not throwing James under the bus but merely warning Paul and Victor.

Edited September 15, 2016 by jumper sage

[gunderda]

13 minutes ago, wings707 said:

Random thoughts. 

I was impressed with Michele's painting of the snake wrapped around the tree branch; it was very good, better than the others that we were able to glimpse. 

So silly that Nicole is seen as a snake.  She was loyal to her alliance and brought information back to them.  That is part of playing BB.  

I was going to vote for Day as AFP but that fight reminded me her insidious, broken record technique of communicating.  ugh  

I will be fine with Nicole or Paul winning.  I don't want to see James in F2.  I think he could win against either and I don't like that idea. :^) 

Natalie is a pretty girl but when she 'dresses up' with her extensions, eyelashes and dresses, she looks tacky.  

I don't think the jury house fight was staged at all.  Michele's one comment set the ball rolling and I don't think she had a clue that it would have had such an impact.    

Michelle sees her as a snake because she was really good friends with Nicole and probably assumed they were in an alliance and then her and Z were noticing how Nicole would come around them, gather info and then immediately go to Paulie and Corey.  

And then having Frank call her out and blow her up to Day probably didn't help either. 

[Wings]

Just now, gunderda said:

Michelle sees her as a snake because she was really good friends with Nicole and probably assumed they were in an alliance and then her and Z were noticing how Nicole would come around them, gather info and then immediately go to Paulie and Corey.  

And then having Frank call her out and blow her up to Day probably didn't help either. 

Yeah, I get that.  This group seemed to always need someone to hate.  It got tiring.  You cannot assume someone is your friend in there unless you have an alliance agreement and she never did.  

So tonight is a live show and we see who is F3.   And then we have to wait until next Wed for finale.  So annoying. 

[Irishsecra]

5 minutes ago, jumper sage said:

Just seeing on Jokers where James agrees to throw a comp to Nicole.  He is pretty sure he can throw it.  He must not be aware that we all see ALL the comps he threw.

It will probably be James/Nicole f2.  I want to see when Paul realizes that James fucked him and it dawns on him that Natalie was correct in trusting James ruined her game.  She was not throwing James under the bus but merely warning Paul and Victor.

I think he is just saying that to save face. I love James but he has no chance in a mental comp that requires memory. The only comp he could throw was endurance. Whether he lost part 1 or threw to Paul I guess we will have to wait and see.

[gunderda]

17 minutes ago, wings707 said:

Yeah, I get that.  This group seemed to always need someone to hate.  It got tiring.  You cannot assume someone is your friend in there unless you have an alliance agreement and she never did.  

So tonight is a live show and we see who is F3.   And then we have to wait until next Wed for finale.  So annoying. 

nope - no show tonight, that was last night.  There is a show tomorrow which will probably be clips and the start of the part 1 HOH. 

And then no show until Wednesday

[Wings]

16 minutes ago, gunderda said:

nope - no show tonight, that was last night.  There is a show tomorrow which will probably be clips and the start of the part 1 HOH. 

And then no show until Wednesday

oops, I am a day behind.  Shows you how much I am into this thing.  

[Irishsecra]

JMO but I think Paul constantly bashing James to Nicole is a bit over the top. It seems to be all he talks about when he is alone with her.. Nicole does not like confrontations so I don't think all this drama helps his cause. If anything, I think it would convince her even more to take James.

[AbsoluteShower]

2 minutes ago, Irishsecra said:

JMO but I think Paul constantly bashing James to Nicole is a bit over the top. It seems to be all he talks about when he is alone with her.. Nicole does not like confrontations so I don't think all this drama helps his cause. If anything, I think it would convince her even more to take James.

Once Paul gets it in his head that he hates someone, he DOES NOT let it go. He did the same thing with Bridgette, Michelle and Natalie. This is why I could NEVER get behind him to win. 

[Irishsecra]

4 minutes ago, AbsoluteShower said:

Once Paul gets it in his head that he hates someone, he DOES NOT let it go. He did the same thing with Bridgette, Michelle and Natalie. This is why I could NEVER get behind him to win. 

But does he hate James or is this some bizarre strategy to get Nicole on his side? What did James ever do to Paul?

I even thought he told Vic before he left that he was going to work with James to get to the end.

[bbaddict]

3 hours ago, AbsoluteShower said:

I sure would like to send the Califiores a note congratulating them on raising such a fine, upstanding respectful son.

Does anyone know the Italian for "Your son is an entitled misogynistic douchebag piece of human garbage. My only consolation is the knowledge that he will die a lonely, lonely death. Yours, A Wellwisher".

I would pay through the nose to watch somebody drive their fist repeatedly into his smug smirking face, then break his hands so he NEVER does that self-satisfied slow handclap again.

ETA: 20 votes for NatNat. Same again tomorrow.

And everyday till I can't vote anymore.

3 hours ago, AbsoluteShower said:

Good for you James.

Yeah James.

[bbaddict]

3 hours ago, Cutty said:

She told Corey she's taking James. 

I just think Paul doesn't really understand the game at this point. He wasn't really a fan of the show until he was cast. 

I thought she said that too. She was sitting in her bed and saying she was taking James. Than I saw that she was upset that James said he threw the comp so I thought she might have changed her mind. I still am not sure who would win in any of the 3 pairings (Hopefully James gets to final 2).

[Irishsecra]

I dont think James threw the comp based on what he said to the live feeders. And if he did, wouldn't he tell Paul? Why the heck would he tell Nicole to piss her off? Could Nicole be lying to tick off Paul?

[gunderda]

28 minutes ago, Irishsecra said:

But does he hate James or is this some bizarre strategy to get Nicole on his side? What did James ever do to Paul?

I even thought he told Vic before he left that he was going to work with James to get to the end.

I think both.  I think he's trying to convince Nicole that never in a million years would he take James to the F2 because he thinks it will make Nicole more loyal to him.  If he acts like he's not sure who he would take then that opens up Nicole to wonder if Paul would take her or not. Paul doesn't want her to doubt so she will think "well if he's for sure taking me then I should take him".

[Skycatcher]

2 hours ago, peachmangosteen said:

Paul goes on and on and on .......... and he doesn't respect James.

Does anyone care whether Paul respects James, or anyone else??????  Oh, I'm sure Paul thinks the world cares, but truthfully? Not so much. Actually, not at all.

[bbaddict]

2 hours ago, AbsoluteShower said:

I think the thing that works in both James and Nicole's favour against Paul is that he has been absolutely TERRIBLE at jury management. As has Nicole, in fact. She has openly said she has NO connection to anyone in jury apart from Corey, and she made absolutely NO effort to be friendly to anyone while they were in the house. 

Paul is convinced that everybody in jury hates James, but I'm not so sure.

There is no way everyone in Jury hates James. Natalie, Michelle, Bridgette, even Day like him. Victor likes him. Corey likes him. It's not who likes who necessarily it is who THEY fell should get the money. James said last season he would have voted for Vanessa had she made it 2 final 2 even though she was the one to get him evicted. This jury is very emotional right now but I think by finale night things will have settled. I am really looking forward to that jury get together. I also wish I would have heard more from Natalie about James but the argument took up a lot of time.

[Irishsecra]

The funny thing is Nicole told Corey several times that she was scared of Paul because he could just go off on you. That it made her uncomfortable. That's why I think this yelling bashing tactic is really counterproductive.

[SiobhanJW]

2 hours ago, peachmangosteen said:

ETA: I think the only things we can be 100% sure about is that Natalie will vote for James and Victor will vote for Paul. IMO those are truly the only for sure votes. Corey is likely to vote for Nicole as well, but I don't think it's as definite a vote as the other 2.

I'm pretty sure we can say with 100% certainty that if Nicole is in the F2, Corey WILL vote for her against the other 2. Come on. 

[Wings]

No more feeds, is that it?  I remember watching F3 rattle around for a week or thought I did.  

[gunderda]

They'll put up a screen when the feeds are done for good.  And the HGs will give their goodbyes. 

So they are probably doing something else right now. 

[Skycatcher]

I would love, love, love to see James win, only because it would so totally mess up Paul, and to a lesser degree, Nicole.  She might be annoyed, but I think she'd be gracious, at least in public. That would be so satisfying.  And if not James, then Nicole would be my second choice, with James as her second.

The "Anybody but Paul" Express will be leaving the station soon.

[bbaddict]

1 hour ago, Irishsecra said:

I think from last nights jury segment it seems like they are rooting for James. I really think what day said to Vic on the wall was to plant the seed to help James.

talking about jury management. Fans were pissed that James told the evicted house guests before the live show so they weren't blindsided. But I am sure the houseguests appreciated it.

James told day and he told Paulie a few hours before eviction he was flipping on z. He let Paulie scream his head off at him while Paul acted like he was shocked. I actually think manning up to Paulie got his respect whereas Paul never admitted his betrayal. I think not blindsiding them saved him in the DE.

hate to agree with Paulie on anything but James probably played the best social game in the house. The fact he always stayed calm and never held a grudge helped him immensely.

And hopefully that could be part of speech

 

1 hour ago, jumper sage said:

Just seeing on Jokers where James agrees to throw a comp to Nicole.  He is pretty sure he can throw it.  He must not be aware that we all see ALL the comps he threw.

It will probably be James/Nicole f2.  I want to see when Paul realizes that James fucked him and it dawns on him that Natalie was correct in trusting James ruined her game.  She was not throwing James under the bus but merely warning Paul and Victor.

I will always have a problem with saying James ruined Natalie's game. If we are all honest here she would NEVER had gotten as far as she did without him. She knew NOTHING about big brother. He mentored her, protected her as much as he could, tried to keep her in check, etc. That is how I watched this entire season on the feeds. Their conversations is what made me a huge fan of theirs. He would NEVER hurt her intentionally. He was in love with her and admitted so and was willing to sacrifice his game for her. She thinks going with Victor and Paul would have gotten her to final 3. Never would have happened because Nicole and Corey would never have allowed it and Paul and Victor would have thrown her to the wolfs at the 1st chance they got. After her conversation with them they lost all respect for Natalie. James was her best option. It just didn't get her to the end.

[TheGreenKnight]

4 hours ago, peachmangosteen said:

This is true, but also the jury can pick the winner for any reason they want as well. There are no rules for who 'deserves' to win. 

That's true. The jury can be as bitter or as biased as they choose to be. They are not obligated to vote based on any specific criteria. They could give the money to someone they feel sorry for, someone who was their friend but a bad player, someone who they hate less than the other person, etc. Keeping the jury on your side as they're going out the door is just as much a part of the game as getting to the end. Nicole and Paul have both failed on that front. At this point, if James wins, he'll have deserved it just as much as either one of them. I'll be honest that if I was a member of the jury I would not give it to Paul no matter who he's up against because he already has a rich family and he's a douchebag desperate for attention. It'd be like giving the money to Frankie Grande.

[bbaddict]

1 hour ago, gunderda said:

nope - no show tonight, that was last night.  There is a show tomorrow which will probably be clips and the start of the part 1 HOH. 

And then no show until Wednesday

Won't the jury meet on the Friday show or is that on finale night? Also, will there be any jury stuff on Friday's show?

1 hour ago, AbsoluteShower said:

Once Paul gets it in his head that he hates someone, he DOES NOT let it go. He did the same thing with Bridgette, Michelle and Natalie. This is why I could NEVER get behind him to win. 

He seemed to have respect for him when the 3 were in the London room the other day. That is why I can't root for Paul. The guy is hysterical but being on the block 6 times has to mean something. I hope Nicole and James use that against him in final 2.

[Irishsecra]

2 minutes ago, TheGreenKnight said:

That's true. The jury can be as bitter or as biased as they choose to be. They are not obligated to vote based on any specific criteria. They could give the money to someone they feel sorry for, someone who was their friend but a bad player, someone who they hate less than the other person, etc. Keeping the jury on your side as they're going out the door is just as much a part of the game as getting to the end. Nicole and Paul have both failed on that front. At this point, if James wins, he'll have deserved it just as much as either one of them. I'll be honest that if I was a member of the jury I would not give it to Paul no matter who he's up against because he already has a rich family and he's a douchebag desperate for attention. It'd be like giving the money to Frankie Grande.

How true. I will always feel that DAN was robbed. Fantastic strategic player but an awful social game. 

[njbarmaid]

They are doing the brunch reminisce thingy now.

[gunderda]

6 minutes ago, bbaddict said:

Won't the jury meet on the Friday show or is that on finale night? Also, will there be any jury stuff on Friday's show?

The jury round table will be finale night.  They show too much crap on finale night. 

I bet they even wait to show Corey arrive at jury for finale. 

Friday will have part 1 of HOH and lots of filler. 

5 minutes ago, njbarmaid said:

They are doing the brunch reminisce thingy now.

Ah-HA! there's friday's show... lol

[SiobhanJW]

11 minutes ago, bbaddict said:

Won't the jury meet on the Friday show or is that on finale night? Also, will there be any jury stuff on Friday's show?

He seemed to have respect for him when the 3 were in the London room the other day. That is why I can't root for Paul. The guy is hysterical but being on the block 6 times has to mean something. I hope Nicole and James use that against him in final 2.

Nah. They wait to show that on Finale night because Corey doesn't show up at the Jury house he shows up at the Roundtable, and you don't put Dr. Will on the rando Friday night clip show. Haha. 

There usually isn't any Jury stuff on the Friday show. It's usually one of those memory lane shows (we already got one this season, I'm unclear why we need another one) and then they show the beginning of the first part of the HOH. 

Edited September 15, 2016 by SiobhanJW

[AbsoluteShower]

What are the odds on Nicole or Paul being truthful about their feelings for most of the evicted houseguests?

I'm going with 'slim to none'.

[thefog]

Part of BB is the social game - and James has played the best social game of the Final 3.   Emotions are still raw the jury and it only takes 5 votes to win and James is the least polarizing.  Paul is obviously a better competitor with the comps, but he has also played a very aggressive game - where he pissed off (betrayed) more people.  And Nicole really isolated herself from the house with Corey.

[Nashville]

7 hours ago, J.D. said:

I feel bad for James having a rough childhood, but that shouldn't factor in one iota on whether he should win the game. 

Just MHO but I believe James' background was mentioned not in terms of suggesting he "deserved" a win, but rather in terms of explaining many of the behaviors for which James has been knocked this season.  YMMV

 

6 hours ago, ByaNose said:

James not only floated but he didn't even try......at anything.

And that strategy got him to F3, and possibly F2.  Might not be a strategy I'd pick, but it's hard to argue with success.  :)

 

4 hours ago, LordBowen said:

Nicole later said to Paul that James told her he dropped after she was out.

 

4 hours ago, gunderda said:

Having James admit to throwing it is really weird.

Have we actually seen James admit to throwing the comp?  

Or is everybody simply taking Nicole's word that James admitted to throwing the comp?

I ask solely because - rare though it might be - HGs have occasionally been known to tell a lie every now and then.  ;>

 

1 hour ago, AbsoluteShower said:

Once Paul gets it in his head that he hates someone, he DOES NOT let it go. He did the same thing with Bridgette, Michelle and Natalie. This is why I could NEVER get behind him to win. 

This was Victor's main slam on Paul as well - and Victor was the biggest Paul cheerleader in the House.

 

58 minutes ago, Irishsecra said:

I dont think James threw the comp based on what he said to the live feeders. And if he did, wouldn't he tell Paul? Why the heck would he tell Nicole to piss her off? Could Nicole be lying to tick off Paul?

<DING!>  No more calls, J.B. - I think we have a winner.  :>

[gunderda]

I forgot corey wont' even go to the jury house so yea, we won't be seeing any jury until finale night.

[Katesus7]

I do not agree with the assertion that Nicole "finally" started to play the game. Yeah, her Corey obsession sucked, but she always played the game. She manipulated her way into that first HOH. It was pretty awesome, quite frankly. That's playing the game. She was part of the 8-pack, the Fatal 5, wanted to make an alliance with Corey/Paulie/Zak/Day which Day blew up, she was always talking game. I mean, what does it mean to say someone is "playing the game" or not? Give me some definition, because people constantly get called out on not playing, but for the most part, I just don't see it. 

Damn, it appears I'm rooting for Nicole. That sucks. If she wins, I'll give a brief cheer, then immediately yell "Fuck you, Nicole!" At my TV. This season is so weird, y'all. 

[Irishsecra]

Strictly on what is considered big brother gameplay, I think Nicole definitely has played the best game. 

Her downfall, as well as Paul's, is her social game sucked.  Which is funny cause her social game the last time she played was pretty good. Everyone loved her, including the audience.

Still the jury would have to really really hate Paul and Nicole, and really really love James to give him the win. I just don't see it. I say this as a James fan who would be thrilled if he won.

i just hope he makes F2 and gets 50,000

[ByaNose]

20 minutes ago, Katesus7 said:

I do not agree with the assertion that Nicole "finally" started to play the game. Yeah, her Corey obsession sucked, but she always played the game. She manipulated her way into that first HOH. It was pretty awesome, quite frankly. That's playing the game. She was part of the 8-pack, the Fatal 5, wanted to make an alliance with Corey/Paulie/Zak/Day which Day blew up, she was always talking game. I mean, what does it mean to say someone is "playing the game" or not? Give me some definition, because people constantly get called out on not playing, but for the most part, I just don't see it. 

Damn, it appears I'm rooting for Nicole. That sucks. If she wins, I'll give a brief cheer, then immediately yell "Fuck you, Nicole!" At my TV. This season is so weird, y'all. 

Sadly, I want Nicole to lose and have to work for a living. LOL!! I think that she thinks that she knows she will win against James. I just thought it was weird how she had a showmance last time and went right back again to another. Not to mention, she is all fangirl out about Corey. It's like she has a mind of a 16 year old. It looks rocky already. Did you see Corey's interview with Julie. That dude can't put two words together and he was hedging the outside dating life with Nicole. Of course, it might all change if she wins $500,000. All bets are off...for a year or so. LOL!!!!

[AbsoluteShower]

3 minutes ago, ByaNose said:

Sadly, I want Nicole to lose and have to work for a living. LOL!! I think that she thinks that she knows she will win against James. I just thought it was weird how she had a showmance last time and went right back again to another. Not to mention, she is all fangirl out about Corey. It's like she has a mind of a 16 year old. It looks rocky already. Did you see Corey's interview with Julie. That dude can't put two words together and he was hedging the outside dating life with Nicole. Of course, it might all change if she wins $500,000. All bets are off...for a year or so. LOL!!!!

Seriously that eviction speech was toe-curling in its awfulness. "Oh Corey you're so handsome I'm forgetting what to say!" And Paul had the fucking NERVE to mock Nat for her speech, which was a thousand times more heartfelt and genuine than Nicole's schoolgirl gushings.

I just hope Nicole is prepared to share him with Taylor Swift, because he could TOTALLY marry her, you know...

[TheRealT]

2 hours ago, bbaddict said:

I will always have a problem with saying James ruined Natalie's game. If we are all honest here she would NEVER had gotten as far as she did without him. She knew NOTHING about big brother. He mentored her, protected her as much as he could, tried to keep her in check, etc. That is how I watched this entire season on the feeds. Their conversations is what made me a huge fan of theirs. He would NEVER hurt her intentionally. He was in love with her and admitted so and was willing to sacrifice his game for her. She thinks going with Victor and Paul would have gotten her to final 3. Never would have happened because Nicole and Corey would never have allowed it and Paul and Victor would have thrown her to the wolfs at the 1st chance they got. After her conversation with them they lost all respect for Natalie. James was her best option. It just didn't get her to the end.

This is what Paulie, James, and probably others have claimed, but I think it's bullshit (and sexist). It wasn't necessary for Nat to know about BB to get as far as she did before she started catching on to the game more. She, like a lot of people who make it far or even win, was perceived as a weak player, (mostly) nonoffesive, and, therefore, not on anyone's radar early on. She probably benefited some from being associated with James when Paulie was running the house because he was invested in keeping multiple showmances around and he perceived her as being "controlled" by James. James didn't DO ANYTHING to protect Natalie or advance her game at all, so I don't see how he gets credit for "carrying her." James was using the same strategy to some extent, skating by by seeming like a weak, easily controlled player. He was involved in more alliances and scheming (WITHOUT Natalie), so it could be argued that he was playing the game more/better, but I don't see how he actively did anything to advance Nat's game. Derrick "carried" Victoria because he actively worked to protect her throughout the game (even though he wasn't openly allied with her). James did the opposite, he was openly "allied" with Natalie, but did nothing to advance her game.

As for him mentoring her, yes, he did give her a lot of advice, most of it bad. It's on her that she listened to him and I guess he meant well, but I don't see how he gets credit for somehow helping her through his "mentoring." I'm not sure how Natalie needed to be kept in check, so I can't comment on how effective James was there. I don't see how James sacrificed his game in any way for Natalie, though he talked quite a bit about how he was theoretically willing to do so. The alliance with Nicorey is an excellent example of James' "help" that improved his game and weakened Nat (I don't think he always did it intentionally, but still). Both Nicole and Corey were closer to James and would always keep James over Nat, even if Nicorey flipped on Jatalie. In fact, that is exactly what happened.

Edited September 15, 2016 by TheRealT

[J.D.]

8 hours ago, ByaNose said:

James not only floated but he didn't even try......at anything. He didn't even study the days for the baseball comp. He's played before and knows better. That said, the jury likes him so he might get some votes. Nicole is playing a better game and might win. The weird thing was i didn't get any impression from the jury of Paul (or, I missed it). It might come down how they answer the stupid (and, staged) questions from the jury.

I totally agree on your James assessment.  I can't respect anyone who floats through the entire game.  I can see it as a strategy in the beginning while you're getting to know the others.  (Jozea learned his lesson the hard way).  Too much too soon is dangerous.  The jury's not going to vote for the one who was most strategic.  The jury will let their emotions get in the way of voting for Paul.  I only started respecting Corey and Nicole these last few weeks because everything before that they just laid around in bed.  

 Nicole will win this.  

[Marie80]

10 minutes ago, TheRealT said:

This is what Paulie, James, and probably others have claimed, but I think it's bullshit (and sexist). It wasn't necessary for Nat to know about BB to get as far as she did before she started catching on to the game more. She, like a lot of people who make it far or even win, was perceived as a weak player, (mostly) nonoffesive, and, therefore, not on anyone's radar early on. She probably benefited some from being associated with James when Paulie was running the house because he was invested in keeping multiple showmances around and he perceived her as being "controlled" by James. James didn't DO ANYTHING to protect Natalie or advance her game at all, so I don't see how he gets credit for "carrying her." James was using the same strategy to some extent, skating by by seeming like a weak, easily controlled player. He was involved in more alliances and scheming (WITHOUT Natalie), so it could be argued that he was playing the game more/better, but I don't see how he actively did anything to advance Nat's game. Derrick "carried" Victoria because he actively worked to protect her throughout the game (even though he wasn't openly allied with her). James did the opposite, he was openly "allied" with Natalie, but did nothing to advance her game. As for him mentoring her, yes, he did give her a lot of advice, most of it bad. It's on her that she listened to him and I guess he meant well, but I don't see how he gets credit for somehow helping her through his "mentoring." I'm not sure how Natalie needed to be kept in check, so I can't comment on how effective James was there.

Not only did he do nothing to advance her game, but he helped put a target on her back. If James telling Nicole and Corey that Natalie wanted to keep Victor over Corey isn't throwing someone under the bus then I don't know what is. They already didn't like her and that just sealed the deal for them.

[mooses]

46 minutes ago, Katesus7 said:

I do not agree with the assertion that Nicole "finally" started to play the game. Yeah, her Corey obsession sucked, but she always played the game. She manipulated her way into that first HOH. It was pretty awesome, quite frankly. That's playing the game. She was part of the 8-pack, the Fatal 5, wanted to make an alliance with Corey/Paulie/Zak/Day which Day blew up, she was always talking game. I mean, what does it mean to say someone is "playing the game" or not? Give me some definition, because people constantly get called out on not playing, but for the most part, I just don't see it. 

Damn, it appears I'm rooting for Nicole. That sucks. If she wins, I'll give a brief cheer, then immediately yell "Fuck you, Nicole!" At my TV. This season is so weird, y'all. 

I agree. I think the Nicole "finally" playing the game was her finally playing it for herself where it seemed like she had a real endgame in mind. It was so long ago that I tend to forget how much influence Paulie had when he was here, and I do think that Nicole was very snowed by him. He had his Showmance Alliance with her, but he also had many separate alliances and was planning on cutting her a lot sooner than she expected. Nicole was definitely always playing the game - she was a big part of the Da'Vonne whispers, for example - but she was forced strategy changed after Z/Paulie left and that's what really got her to the end. She had to make a shift and, to her credit, she did it and really took control.

I am very curious what her original plan was, though. She was in deep with Paulie (who had many separate alliances - Nicole mostly just stuck to the boys and abandoned her separate relationships before he got evicted), but I wonder when she wanted Paulie gone and how she planned on doing that because, before things got flipped, she showed no inclination to stray from the Paulie/Corey duo. I wonder if she planned on the Showmance Alliance plus James to protect her until Final 5 or so and then duke it out with Paulie/Corey/James since she didn't know about the separate PP alliance or the Brolliance. I mean, she was in a precarious position until something happened that she had nothing to do with.

That said, I do think she'd be a fine winner. She rolled with the punches and managed to get herself far. She got lucky which has to happen for any winner, and then she was able to take control of what she could when she could.

Edited September 15, 2016 by mooses

[SiobhanJW]

26 minutes ago, ByaNose said:

Sadly, I want Nicole to lose and have to work for a living. LOL!! I think that she thinks that she knows she will win against James. I just thought it was weird how she had a showmance last time and went right back again to another. Not to mention, she is all fangirl out about Corey. It's like she has a mind of a 16 year old. It looks rocky already. Did you see Corey's interview with Julie. That dude can't put two words together and he was hedging the outside dating life with Nicole. Of course, it might all change if she wins $500,000. All bets are off...for a year or so. LOL!!!!

Most HG that have come out of the house after being in a Showmance always say "We will see what happens outside of the house". That isn't a ridiculous answer. Nicole & Hayden were both asked that in BB16 and had basically the same answer as Corey did. You don' t know what is going to happen, you've been in a cocoon for 3 months and have been playing a game, it's not unrealistic to be like okay I don't know what will happen and we will go with the flow. Not everyone is going to be a Brenchel. Haha. 

I'm not a Corey fan, he's so blah to me. But I think him saying to Victor that he doesn't want anything with Nicole outside of the house could be a number of things like trying to show Victor that he's with his "bros" so that Victor would keep him over Nicole, trying to play off how much he does like her because he himself doesn't want to admit it. We don't know. 

At least for me I really try and not take what these house guests say as gospel they are playing a game. A lot of what comes out of their mouths is motivated to get something they want or to steer someone in another direction, or to play things off. I think A LOT of what Nicole has said has been to deflect and steer things the other way to other people. I.E. Her saying that she's okay with leaving 5th place, her planting all those seeds about how the Jury DESPISES her (While she is probably right, she knows this game and I believe she knows she has a shot to win), those seeds have grown and Paul is possibly buying it now. Her saying that she can't speak in public etc. 

Edited September 15, 2016 by SiobhanJW

[Wings]

23 minutes ago, ByaNose said:

.... I just thought it was weird how she had a showmance last time and went right back again to another. Not to mention, she is all fangirl out about Corey. It's like she has a mind of a 16 year old. It looks rocky already. Did you see Corey's interview with Julie. That dude can't put two words together and he was hedging the outside dating life with Nicole. Of course, it might all change if she wins $500,000. All bets are off...for a year or so. LOL!!!!

She was with Hayden for almost 2 years.  What does it matter if an HG is in a showmance?  It happens frequently.   She is only 23 and acting her age as far as I can see.  

Corey gave the standard and honest response that everyone gives when talking to Julie.  We will see what happens when we get out.  What else is anyone going to say?  

[simplyme]

3 hours ago, Nashville said:

Just MHO but I believe James' background was mentioned not in terms of suggesting he "deserved" a win, but rather in terms of explaining many of the behaviors for which James has been knocked this season.  YMMV

That was the way the topic was introduced, yes, and it was really interesting in that light.

Then there was a comment or two from a poster or two that, now knowing of his background, they wanted James to win. I responded to one of those with my opinion that a good childhood shouldn't be a negative if you like other things about a person's gameplay.

(To the person who introduced the background information and was worried people thought he/she was suggesting it should be taken as a reason to support James: It was very clear to me that was not the case. You were providing background history after someone specifically asked about his family. Some posters had a change of perception of James after that, but the intent was clearly to provide information requested, which also happened to make James's trust issues make a lot more sense.)

I don't know where the word "deserves" came from in this discussion as it wasn't in the first several posts involved, and the only person who "deserves" the win is the one who convinces the most people on the jury to vote for him or her in F2.*

All viewers are entitled to their own opinion on who they want to win, and that's going to differ based on all sorts of reasons. Some people may take James's background into account in formulating their opinion. Some (like me) don't. And that's all okay. We can still group hug.

*ETA: I just went back and reread my original post on the subject. It was poorly written and didn't distinguish whether I was referring to viewers or jury members. Although it wasn't my intent and I didn't use the term deserve, I can see people thinking I meant jury members. So, I'm saying mea culpa for any misunderstandings. Crap. Sorry!

Does that clear things up some? :)

Edited September 15, 2016 by simplyme
Reread earlier post, added mea culpa

[jumper sage]

13 minutes ago, TheRealT said:

This is what Paulie, James, and probably others have claimed, but I think it's bullshit (and sexist). It wasn't necessary for Nat to know about BB to get as far as she did before she started catching on to the game more. She, like a lot of people who make it far or even win, was perceived as a weak player, (mostly) nonoffesive, and, therefore, not on anyone's radar early on. She probably benefited some from being associated with James when Paulie was running the house because he was invested in keeping multiple showmances around and he perceived her as being "controlled" by James. James didn't DO ANYTHING to protect Natalie or advance her game at all, so I don't see how he gets credit for "carrying her." James was using the same strategy to some extent, skating by by seeming like a weak, easily controlled player. He was involved in more alliances and scheming (WITHOUT Natalie), so it could be argued that he was playing the game more/better, but I don't see how he actively did anything to advance Nat's game. Derrick "carried" Victoria because he actively worked to protect her throughout the game (even though he wasn't openly allied with her). James did the opposite, he was openly "allied" with Natalie, but did nothing to advance her game. As for him mentoring her, yes, he did give her a lot of advice, most of it bad. It's on her that she listened to him and I guess he meant well, but I don't see how he gets credit for somehow helping her through his "mentoring." I'm not sure how Natalie needed to be kept in check, so I can't comment on how effective James was there.

@TheRealT I heart you and agree with you.  I would love to have seen Nat's game without James hanging on her and when they were both on the block he actively hounded her and then reported to the others that she was unhinged.  It was he who was unhinged.  He should have gone home.  I will give James credit for putting one over on Nat.  She was stupid for not blowing his game up right at the point of him joining up with Nicory, that is where she lost the game.  I do think he thinks they can make it on the outside.  What a laugh.  Girl is not going after so loser like James.

3 minutes ago, J.D. said:

I totally agree on your James assessment.  I can't respect anyone who floats through the entire game.  I can see it as a strategy in the beginning while you're getting to know the others.  (Jozea learned his lesson the hard way).  Too much too soon is dangerous.  The jury's not going to vote for the one who was most strategic.  The jury will let their emotions get in the way of voting for Paul.  I only started respecting Corey and Nicole these last few weeks because everything before that they just laid around in bed.  

 Nicole will win this.  

James has screwed over a lot of people very quietly.  I would rather have Paul or Nicole win.  I would rather have James walk out last.  Just saw on Jokers where Nicole and Paul were comparing notes on James.  Hurray!

[Wings]

3 minutes ago, mooses said:

I am very curious what her original plan was, though. She was in deep with Paulie (who had many separate alliances - Nicole mostly just stuck to the boys and abandoned her separate relationships before he got evicted), but I wonder when she wanted Paulie gone and how she planned on doing that because, before things got flipped, she showed no inclination to stray from the Paulie/Corey duo. I wonder if she planned on the Showmance Alliance plus James to protect her until Final 5 or so and then duke it out with Paulie/Corey/James since she didn't know about the separate PP alliance or the Brolliance. I mean, she was in a precarious position until something happened that she had nothing to do with. 

Wisely, I don't think she had an original plan.  You have to be flexible and ready to shift alliances when necessary and she did this, several times.  We see it all but, in there, things are less clear.   I think she has done a good job to get to F3.   

[J.D.]

What does YMMV mean?  I see that all the time here.

[Wings]

Just now, J.D. said:

What does YMMV mean?  I see that all the time here.

Your mileage may vary. 

[AbsoluteShower]

Just now, J.D. said:

What does YMMV mean?  I see that all the time here.

Your Mileage May Vary = you may have a different opinion to mine