Season 7: Speculation and Spoilers Discussion

[Minneapple]

Everything has to be a fight. A couple weeks ago the entire episode thread was Jon vs. Sansa. Now we're going down the road of Dany vs. Sansa. I like Jon. I like Dany. I like Sansa. I don't think they're all perfect, but I think they're all interesting, flawed characters. Oh, and I like Arya too. SOMETHING MUST BE WRONG WITH ME. 

[SimoneS]

25 minutes ago, doram said:

Meanwhile, I don't doubt that Ned loved Jon but he also brought him up as a bastard and sent him to the Wall so that he (Ned) would never have to stand up to his child-killing BFF.

But it wasn't like Ned had any choice, but to bring Jon up as his bastard and he was not sending Jon to the Wall there against his will. Jon wanted to there to be with Benjen. Ned probably didn't dissuade Jon because he thought that Jon would be safer there and Benjen was there to key an eye on him. 

[Colorful Mess]

Right, I dont think once Jon finds out that Ned isn't his dad, he's going to heave a sigh of relief: "Thank god he's not my dad. He's such an asshole."

[TarotQueen]

1 hour ago, Colorful Mess said:

And that makes me wonder: What DOES Jon like? Rolling around with Ghost? Hanging out with his family? Cunnilingus? What would he do if he wasn't gearing up for war?

Maybe his favorite past time is emulating his father - yup I'm going to keep calling Ned his father. Someone else put it perfectly - "Rhaegar was just the sperm donor." Jon would really benefit from an adoptive kids support group.

There's a great fic I'm reading called "Promise Me, Cat" where one of the other characters asks him that exact question and he's too shy to answer that most of his happy times involve just fooling around with his siblings. 

Maybe we'll get to see him take up golf in the epilogue episode or something ...

[SimoneS]

32 minutes ago, Katsullivan said:

So basically, a Sansa fan (because that's who it was) criticised Dany and a Dany fan pointed out the hypocrisy in that ---- and you conclude that it's the Dany fans who keep bringing Sansa up?

I can't even be bothered to counter that list because there's so much in it that's contrived - you're equating the Unsullied whom Dany liberated to Sandor who just liked Sansa because ... she was pretty and could sing? You're also counting Drogon and Dany's dragons - and Dany's fire-proofness - amongst the list of men in love with her and not as an extension of herself.

By the way, Sansa also had her magical creature - she had Lady. Whom she lost through her own actions. 

It's never been about who suffered the most. It's about which female character has had more agency from her own actions and/or powers and which female character is merely a pawn or object in other men's stories. Dany's the former, Sansa's the latter. 

 

15 minutes ago, doram said:

OK, I'll bite:

Season 1 - The dragon eggs were never supposed to be hatched. The only other Targaryen who might have been able to hatch them was going to sell them. Dany's own faith was what hatched her dragons. Jorah saved her from the wineseller after he created the circumstances that caused her to be almost poisoned. The bloodriders weren't going to harm her. He shoved her, Jorah got macho and ignored Dany when she needed his help.

Season 2 - Dany went into the House of the Undying and rescued her dragons, not the other way around. 

OK, I quit. Because you keep bringing up Dragons and Dany's Fire-Proof powers as Dany getting help from Someone as if these are not, as @Katsullivan said, an extension of Dany herself. Dany might have got the eggs, but she lost her husband and her son and walked through fire by her own faith in herself before she hatched them. Saying Dany has an unfair advantage because of her dragons (and her fire-proofness on the show) is like saying that Harry Potter has an unfair advantage because of his Invisible Cloak or Marauder's Map. Worse even, because Harry woke up one morning and got an Invisibility Cloak. He didn't need to lose everything before he dived into the bottom of an ocean and found one. 

Can I just add how much this logic confuses me? 

There's also an inherent misogyny inside this, whether it's subconscious or not. It's not the first time I've seen the insinuation of "Mary Sue"-ism levelled towards a female character simply because she's playing the kind of super-powered, Hero role in a story that men often roll out of bed and find themselves in. I've heard people say things like they wish Tyrion got Dany's dragons (Tyrion!) or that they can't wait for Dany's dragons to abandon her for Jon and other nonsense. 

Good point. Sansa also got her own magical creature, and she didn't need to be forcibly married or raped to get it. It was just dropped into her lap. I guess there's a metaphor in there - easy come, easy go.

If I could give both of your posts a thousand likes I would. 

Edited August 1, 2017 by SimoneS

[screamin]

30 minutes ago, Katsullivan said:

So basically, a Sansa fan (because that's who it was) criticised Dany and a Dany fan pointed out the hypocrisy in that ---- and you conclude that it's the Dany fans who keep bringing Sansa up?

I can't even be bothered to counter that list because there's so much in it that's contrived - you're equating the Unsullied whom Dany liberated to Sandor who just liked Sansa because ... she was pretty and could sing? 

Sandor also saw her stick her neck out to save Dontos' life when Joffrey wanted to kill him. She had no dragons and no power over Joffrey save her own moderate skill at lying, and it would have been safer to keep her trap shut and let Dontos be killed - but she didn't. She did what she could with what little she had. That's not nothing.

I am aware this may mark me with the dreaded label of 'Sansa fan'. I gather from your statement above that you therefore think I cannot criticize any other character without being a hypocrite. Myself, I agree with Minneapple that I like Sansa, Arya, Dany and the rest of them, think none of them are perfect, and think we should be able to discuss their virtues and shortcomings peaceably without having our personal preferences thrown in our faces as part of the argument.

[SimoneS]

24 minutes ago, doram said:

Ned did have a choice. He could have acknowledged Jon as Lyanna's and Rhaegar's trueborn son and declared War against Robert if it had come to that. 

He took a choice that didn't require him to go against his best friend and Jon paid the price for that. 

Ned let Jon have an idealised version of the Wall in his head, and as you said, he didn't try to dissuade Jon. He also created living circumstances for Jon that made him think that being a Night's Watchman was the best career he could aspire to as a bastard. 

N

I think that Ned was in a tough spot. When the Jon was the born, Westeros was recovering from the war with houses counting their death and attempting to get back to normal with Robert as their new king. No way do I believe the North would have followed him into to civil war over a Targaryen "bastard" who might grow up to be as insane as the Mad King. The one thing I fault Ned for is not confronting Cate about her unnecessary antagonism towards Jon. He was right not to tell her the truth, but he should have put a stop her overt resentment. It would have made Jon's life easier.

Edited August 1, 2017 by SimoneS

[Meredith Quill]

Mod Note:

• This is the Season 7 spec and spoilers topic; please confine your posts in here to that. If severe off-topicness continues punitive measures will be enforced. We have reminded everyone of this enough times.
• Please be mindful of your tone when addressing fellow posters; some posts are toeing the line in that respect.

Thanks.

[Eyes High]

Translation FD's summary for 7x04 is here. /Gotit1111 and /Dragonglassbenjen haven't showed up to provide details and quotes, so this might be all there is. Highlights of 7x04, as far as I can tell:

1. Shortest episode yet (47 minutes).

2. Winterfell: Arya/Bran/Sansa reunion, LF gives Bran the Valyrian steel dagger, Arya/Brienne sparring scene with LF and Sansa watching.

3. Dragonstone: Missandei/Dany talk about Grey Worm and Missandei's relationship, Dany/Jon cave scene where they discover old cave paintings, Dany is told about Casterly Rock situation and decides to launch attack with Drogon and the Dothraki, Theon arrives at Dragonstone during Dany's absence and is confronted by an angry Jon

4. Field of Fire 2.0: Dany attacks the Lannister/Tarly forces, Bronn forces Drogon to land with the anti-dragon gun, Jaime charges towards Drogon and is knocked into the water at the last minute by Bronn when Drogon breathes fire

[SimoneS]

Episode 4 sounds like it will be sooooo good. Unfortunately, I don't think that we will learn much about what is happening with the Unsullied, but I am glad that Daenerys has had enough of "clever plans" is going to attack the Lannisters directly. I hope Daenerys says that part of the reason that she is doing this to get justice for Olenna. I look forward to the Dothraki and Drogon taking out the Lannister's army.
 

Edited August 1, 2017 by SimoneS

[Enigma X]

1 hour ago, Minneapple said:

Everything has to be a fight. A couple weeks ago the entire episode thread was Jon vs. Sansa. Now we're going down the road of Dany vs. Sansa. I like Jon. I like Dany. I like Sansa. I don't think they're all perfect, but I think they're all interesting, flawed characters. Oh, and I like Arya too. SOMETHING MUST BE WRONG WITH ME. 

Can I sit at your table?

[Minneapple]

2 minutes ago, Enigma X said:

Can I sit at your table?

Of course! There's plenty of space! Sometimes I feel like I'm the only one here, lol.

24 minutes ago, Eyes High said:

Translation FD's summary for 7x04 is here. /Gotit1111 and /Dragonglassbenjen haven't showed up to provide details and quotes, so this might be all there is. Highlights of 7x04, as far as I can tell:

1. Shortest episode yet (47 minutes).

2. Winterfell: Arya/Bran/Sansa reunion, LF gives Bran the Valyrian steel dagger, Arya/Brienne sparring scene with LF and Sansa watching.

3. Dragonstone: Missandei/Dany talk about Grey Worm and Missandei's relationship, Dany/Jon cave scene where they discover old cave paintings, Dany is told about Casterly Rock situation and decides to launch attack with Drogon and the Dothraki, Theon arrives at Dragonstone during Dany's absence and is confronted by an angry Jon

4. Field of Fire 2.0: Dany attacks the Lannister/Tarly forces, Bronn forces Drogon to land with the anti-dragon gun, Jaime charges towards Drogon and is knocked into the water at the last minute by Bronn when Drogon breathes fire

This all sounds great but only 47 minutes? WTF? 

I cannot wait for the Arya/Sansa/Bran reunion. Hopefully Bran will be a little less creepy? I just wish Jon was there too. Although Jon confronting Theon also sounds awesome. 

I'm not sure what makes Jaime a bigger idiot: Being Cersei's lapdog or charging toward a FUCKING DRAGON. DUDE.

[anamika]

52 minutes ago, Eyes High said:

Translation FD's summary for 7x04 is here. /Gotit1111 and /Dragonglassbenjen haven't showed up to provide details and quotes, so this might be all there is. Highlights of 7x04, as far as I can tell:

4. Field of Fire 2.0: Dany attacks the Lannister/Tarly forces, Bronn forces Drogon to land with the anti-dragon gun, Jaime charges towards Drogon and is knocked into the water at the last minute by Bronn when Drogon breathes fire

According to Gotit111, this is the third best episode in the entire series!

[Eyes High]

1 minute ago, anamika said:

According to Gotit111, this is the third best episode in the entire series!

I guess the battle--which supposedly lasts about a third of the episode if Lads is to be believed--is really something to behold. Matt Shakman has done a LOT of TV, although nothing on the scale of GOT, so I'm looking forward to seeing his work in 7x04. The shots from the season trailers from 7x04 looked gooooood.

 

32 minutes ago, Minneapple said:

Of course! There's plenty of space! Sometimes I feel like I'm the only one here, lol.

This all sounds great but only 47 minutes? WTF? 

I cannot wait for the Arya/Sansa/Bran reunion. Hopefully Bran will be a little less creepy? I just wish Jon was there too. Although Jon confronting Theon also sounds awesome. 

I'm not sure what makes Jaime a bigger idiot: Being Cersei's lapdog or charging toward a FUCKING DRAGON. DUDE.

Jaime desperately--I assume it's desperate, since the Lannisters apparently lose the battle--charging towards Drogon and Dany while Drogon gets ready to roast him and Tyrion looks on helplessly from a distance (although I have no idea what Tyrion is doing at the battleground) should make for some really good TV, in my opinion, as dumb as it is. I think Lads or the 4chan leaker implied it was a suicidal move out of desperation.

[Edith]

34 minutes ago, Minneapple said:

Of course! There's plenty of space! Sometimes I feel like I'm the only one here, lol.

This all sounds great but only 47 minutes? WTF? 

I cannot wait for the Arya/Sansa/Bran reunion. Hopefully Bran will be a little less creepy? I just wish Jon was there too. Although Jon confronting Theon also sounds awesome. 

I'm not sure what makes Jaime a bigger idiot: Being Cersei's lapdog or charging toward a FUCKING DRAGON. DUDE.

Don't get your hopes up. Friki already said no but a least Arya is happy when Bran gives her the dagger. 

[Eyes High]

17 minutes ago, Edith said:

Don't get your hopes up. Friki already said no but a least Arya is happy when Bran gives her the dagger. 

What I'm really curious is why LF apparently gives Bran the dagger apropos of nothing. I don't doubt that he does, since the 7x04 trailer featured a shot of LF's hands as he draws the dagger. It just seems like an odd thing to do, and an odd gift for a wheelchair-bound non-fighter.

[SimoneS]

I am looking forward to the Tarlys' death. They deserve to be punished for betraying Olenna. I hope that it is painful as hell.

 

23 minutes ago, doram said:

How the fuck does Jaimie out-run fire? 

What the fuck kind of plot armour is that?

Not to mention Jaime fighting the Dothraki and killing them with his one real hand and fake gold one. Talk about unbelievable. He should be commanding the army, not fighting.

Edited August 1, 2017 by SimoneS

[MadMouse]

Take all of this with a grain of salt but it looks like the rest of the season episodes might be out there tomorrow and supposedly some season 8 spoilers.

[MadMouse]

48 minutes ago, Raachel2008 said:

What do you mean by 'might be out'? Availabe? Season 8 spoilers? Whoa.

Yep, after the HBO hack people who I "trust" have commented that the rest of the season will be out on torrents in the next couple days. The same with season 8, I don't know if they have the scripts but I read some stuff that seems plausible. Of course a die hard fan of the show could have easily come up with those too. Two words Valyrian Armor.

Edited August 1, 2017 by MadMouse

[jjjmoss]

Hmm, if a big chunk of the episode is a battle that doesn't make a big difference in the big picture, I'll probably find it unexciting.

Looking forward to the sister reunion though.

[bunnyblue]

3 hours ago, Eyes High said:

Tyrion looks on helplessly from a distance (although I have no idea what Tyrion is doing at the battleground) should make for some really good TV, in my opinion, as dumb as it is. I

Not only does it make no sense for Tyrion to be at the battle, but how the hell does he get there in time to watch Jaime's suicidal charge?? To me, it sounds like Dany flies off as soon as she hears of the fall of Highgarden, soooo unless Tyrion also rides a dragon how does he get to the mainland and then to the ambush so quickly? Unless the road from Highgarden to King's Landing is a coastal road or the ambush actually takes days to plan, I'm stumped.

3 hours ago, Eyes High said:

It just seems like an odd thing to do, and an odd gift for a wheelchair-bound non-fighter.

Yeah, that's another head-scratcher. 

 

3 hours ago, SimoneS said:

He should be commanding the army, not fighting.

No matter how many lessons he's had with Bronn, Jaime vs. a Dothraki screamer should be over rather quickly. So I assume he will be commanding from the sidelines but once he sees his army all but gone and Dany & Drogon momentarily vulnerable, he has a moment of insanity and charges onto the battlefield with the spear. 

[Oscirus]

3 hours ago, bunnyblue said:

Not only does it make no sense for Tyrion to be at the battle, but how the hell does he get there in time to watch Jaime's suicidal charge?? To me, it sounds like Dany flies off as soon as she hears of the fall of Highgarden, soooo unless Tyrion also rides a dragon how does he get to the mainland and then to the ambush so quickly? Unless the road from Highgarden to King's Landing is a coastal road or the ambush actually takes days to plan, I'm stumped.

7 hours ago, Eyes High said:

Perhaps he's the one that brings the Dotharaki  there to follow her.  Still don't know how they'd get there on time but that would make the most sense I reckon.

[SimoneS]

I think for these last two seasons that we are going to have to accept the show will be constantly defying the space time continuum with people/weapons/fleets beaming to various locations in an instant.

[Eyes High]

6 hours ago, MadMouse said:

Yep, after the HBO hack people who I "trust" have commented that the rest of the season will be out on torrents in the next couple days. The same with season 8, I don't know if they have the scripts but I read some stuff that seems plausible. Of course a die hard fan of the show could have easily come up with those too. Two words Valyrian Armor.

From the preliminary leak dumps, there doesn't seem to be anything there so far except a partial script for 7x04. There could be more coming, I suppose, but I doubt it.

There will be a lot of fake spoilers floating around claiming to be from the hack over the next little while, though. Beware.

[SeanC]

1 minute ago, Eyes High said:

There will be a lot of fake spoilers floating around claiming to be from the hack over the next little while, though. Beware.

Somebody really should have told the hackers that we already have a full set of accurate leaks about Season 7 of GOT.

[Eyes High]

7x04 script outline summarized here, courtesy of /Freefolk:

Quote

HBO leak
EPISODE 704
• We see Jaime and Bronn leaving Highgarden, Jaime keeping close watch over a massive loot train made up of wagons filled with gold ingots, sacks of gold coins, etc. Jaime informs
Bronn it’s all for the Iron Bank, the Lannisters always pay their debts.
• In Bran’s chamber, Littlefinger tells him that he’s there for him, to protect him and anything he needs to just ask. He would have saved his mother if he could have and he’ll do anything
for her children. He says he can only imagine what Bran has gone through and how hard it must be to come back home again only to find such chaos in the world, Bran says chaos is a
ladder, his affect flat and detached. Later Bran talks with Meera. Meera informs him she’ll be leaving to go back home to Greywater Watch because when the Army of the Dead comes
she wants to be with her family. All Bran has to say is thank you and Meera gets very upset, that’s all he has to say? She comes to realize what’s happened to him (he’s now the Three-
Eyed Raven) and she says to him that he died in that cave.
• Brienne is suspicious of Littlefinger when she catches him smiling as he watches Meera leave. She tells him that if he tries to harm any of the Stark children that she’ll cut him in
half.
• In Dragonstone Jon takes Dany, Missandei and some Dothraki guards to a cave where they meet up with Davos. With torches they follow the tunnel to a deep underground cave and
we can see the walls and ceiling of the cave are shot through with a motherload of dragonglass. Jon tells them it’s all they could ever need and that he’s very happy with their
progress. Dany takes a torch and starts off deeper into the cave on her own. Everyone begins following her, Jon advising her to stop as it’s not safe. She eventually comes into a
smaller cave that has a wall of all dragonglass and there’s a spiral carved into the smooth black rock. They move deper into the space to find more spirals and more mesmerizing
patterns like aboriginal art – the images replicate symbols we’ve seen throughout the series. Jon says the Children of the Forest made them and he sees a drawing of five small
figures with daggers in their hand, when wondering who they are fighting, they eventually move a torch to see the unmistakable representation of the Night King with five White
Walkers behind him.
• Tyrion and Varys enter the cave to inform Dany that they’ve taken Casterly Rock, but neither of them look happy. Dany is furious when she hears the news about what
happened. She tells Tyrion that they’ve lost Dorne, the Iron Islands and the Reach due to his strategy. Maybe he really doesn’t want to hurt their enemies (his family) after all? She says
she wants to fly her dragons to the Red Keep and then asks Jon what he thinks she should do since she’s in a war and clearly is losing. He tells her if she takes her dragons to melt
castles and burn cities then she’s no different than the others that came before her.
• Arya arrives to the gates of Winterfell but the guards give her trouble and refuse to let her in, they say Arya Stark has been dead for years and years when she tells them who she is.
Ultimately they come to see that they’ll get in trouble for refusing her if she is who she says so they let her in. The guards argue about who should go get Sansa (Arya is shocked to hear
the news that she’s alive and the one in charge while Jon is away) and while they’re arguing she sneaks away. The guards are with Sansa and tell her what happened, saying they’ll find
Arya. Sansa says no need, she knows where Arya went. She goes to find Arya in the crypt looking at the statue of their father. Sansa tells Arya that Bran is home too but Arya can tell
by how she says it that something is wrong.
• Sansa and Arya go to Bran, Bran tells Arya he saw her at the crossroads, thought that she might go to King’s Landing. Both the girls then spot the Valaryian steel dagger and ask
where he got it, he informs them it’s from Littlefinger and that he gave it to him because it was the one that was used to try to kill him after his fall. He then hands it to Arya, saying he
doesn’t want it, it’s worthless for a cripple. Sansa watches the exchange, upset that he didn’t give it to her.
• In Dragonstone Davos and Jon are walking along the beach and Davos asks Jon what he thinks of Dany, hinting that Jon is attracted to her. Jon tells him there’s no time to think
about such things. They then see a Greyjoy ship in the distance – the ship with Harrag and Theon Greyjoy. They arrive to shore and Theon asks Jon if Sansa is ok – Jon tells him yes
but then pulls him close and tells him what Theon did for her is the only reason he’s not killing him right then and there. They ask him about Yara and when they hear Euron has
her they ask why didn’t he take Theon as well? Harrag thinks that’s a great question and looks at Theon waiting for an answer.
• We’re with Jaime and Bronn and the wagon train during the day at Blackwater Rush. At a certain point, they hear what sounds almost like a tidal wave, ocean surf crashing but they
are nowhere near a beach. The noise grows louder and the eventually see a swarm of Dothraki at full gallop charging towards them, screaming for blood. Bronn tells Jaime to go
back to King’s Landing and Jaime says he won’t leave his army. Drogon then hurtles down from the clouds, Dany riding him. She approaches and screams Dracarys
• Drogon’s fire blasts the Lannister line, tons of foot soldiers, mounted officers and wagons filled with gold and food. Jaime knows they are doomed if they don’t do something about
Drogon, he informs all the archers who are left to line up their shots. Arrows whiz towards Dany, Drogon belly rolls to protect her – the arrows bouncing off of his scales like Nerf
darts.
• Jaime then realizes that one of Qyburn’s “scorpion” weapons is in one of the wagons – he can’t shoot it with one hand so he tells Bronn to go get it. On his way to the wagon Bronn
runs into someone who is a better fighter than him. Dickon Tarly ends up saving Jaime. Bronn ends up hiding in a wagon, the Dothraki soldier eventually finds him and climbs in
with him, once his eyes adjust to the lighting he sees Bronn aiming the scorpion weapon directly at him – he fires and kills him. Bronn then pulls the tarp off of the wagon and
begins to reload the weapon.
• Tyrion then walks into view escorted by bodyguards and looks over the entire battlefield. We’re then with Dany on top of Drogon while she’s surveying the scene and an eight-foot
bolt whizzes past her head. They realize that Bronn has something that could harm the dragon. While Bronn is reloading (a job for two men) Drogon starts to head towards him.
Bronn ends up reloading in time and pulls the trigger, the bolt hits Drogon near his shoulder. Once Drogon comes out of his spin, he’s near the wagon and looks back to Bronn.
Bronn is no longer hopeful, he jumps out of the wagon. Drogon immolates the wagon and the scorpion weapon, Bronn rolls to safety escaping the fire by inches. Dany can tell that
the bolt hit Drogon in a place that hasn’t done any real damage.
• Jaime has no idea that Tyrion is nearby, he’s watching Drogon who has landed near the river. Dany climbs down and tries to dislodge the harpoon. Jaime can see this happening
and realizes that they are just a few hundred yards away, distracted and vulnerable. He could win this war in a single run. The elegiac shots make one thing clear to us: one of our
favorite characters is about to die. But which one? Jaime takes off on his horse, Tyrion watches “Oh you idiot, you fucking idiot”
• Dany yanks the harpoon free of the scales and tosses it aside. She then turns and sees Jaime coming. Drogon then sees him too and as the fire starts coming out of his mouth, Bronn
gallops in and leaps from his saddle, tackling Jaime off of his horse and they both fall into the river. Underwater surrounded by drowned men floating alongside of them, they look
up to see the flames above the surface. Jaime looks down and sees dead soldiers trapped on the bottom, the weight of their armor holding them down.

No mention of the Arya/Brienne sparring scene or the Dany/Missandei girl talk scene, but it would make sense if those were later additions.

Edited August 1, 2017 by Eyes High

[Edith]

Another summary from the freefolk

Quote

 

FYI, this is not a full script. It is an outline dated from April 2016. So it doesn't have much specific dialogue, just summaries. 

Some tidbits from it:

-Half of the loot from Highgarden has already made it back to KL by the time Dany attacks, which explains why Cersei is still able to hire the Golden Company at the end of the season. Dany does not stop her from getting ALL of the loot.

-LF gives the dagger to Bran, who later gives it to Arya. Bran also repeats some of LF's past lines back to him (Chaos is a ladder), which creeps LF out.

-Arya's entry to WF will mirror her entry into the Red Keep after she got lost in the sewers in S1. Two guards will not believe her when she says she is Arya Stark, she will eventually sneak past them and go to the Crypts, where Sansa finds her. Their reunion is awkward, to say the least. They don't immediately hug or anything. Arya is disappointed to learn Sansa did not actually kill Joff, like she had heard through rumors.

-Meera leaves Bran to go home....Buddha Bran can't say anything in response beyond "Thank You". He's completely dead to emotion, Meera is upset.

-Arya is also upset at how Bran isn't using his powers to help his family more, Bran just says House Stark doesn't matter. Only the war with the WWs matters...

-Jon Dany have two scenes, one where he takes her into the cave where some First Men paintings are...this section of the cave is only big enough for 2, so it's just them. Script says the 'seeds of mutual attraction' are obvious here. He takes her hand to help her down into the cave at one point.

-2nd scene is where they leave the cave, and Dany is informed of Highgardens fall. Jon tries to leave since it is none of his business, but Dany asks him to stay and give his advice...Jon says he thinks Dany and her Dragons are destined for a higher purpose than just burning towns, soldiers and innocents. Dany leaves to attack the Lannisters anyway.

-The script outline here makes it seem like Dany's attack takes place just outside of KL, near the Blackwater river. Jaime is still actively trying to get more loot wagons into KL while Dany is attacking.

-Dany and Drogon are attacked by swarms of arrows and several shots of the Qyburn balista thingy. One shot hits Drogon, but doesn't penetrate his hide. Just pisses him off. He then burns the ballista thingy Bronn was manning, Bronn jumps away just in time to avoid being roasted.

EDIT: There is a 2nd, smaller outline which I just read. Some other tidbits from it:

-Jon and Davos have a convo where Davos asks him what he thinks of Dany....Davos implies Jon is attracted to her, Jon says there is no time for stuff like that. This is just before Theon arrives.

-It says Dickon Tarly saves Jaime's life at some point in the battle (doesn't say how). And Bronn runs into someone who is a better fighter than him, he then hides in the wagon with the scorpion in it, a Dothraki soldier follows him in and Bronn hits him with a shot of the scorpion....this whole bit is very confusingly worded. I think it means Bronn runs into a Dothraki soldier who is a better fighter than him, but he outsmarts him by hiding, and lures him into getting shot by the scorpion. IDK honestly.

-This outline says Sansa is upset Bran gives the dagger to Arya, and not her (the 1st outline doesn't say this).

-Tyrion is watching from a hill when Jaimes charges at Dany/Drogon...he says 'Oh you idiot, you fucking idiot'.

 

https://www.reddit.com/r/freefolk/comments/6quqm3/the_hbo_leak_files_are_here/

[Eyes High]

7x04 outline page images posted here so you can read them yourselves, courtesy of /Tifalucis at /Freefolk.

Outline says "Meera stands, heartbroken. The Bran she loved died in the cave. Bran doesn't contradict her. She turns and walks out of his room, out of his life, and out of the series."

So I guess that's the last we see of Meera...?

The outline also has a bit where Bran has a series of visions involving the dagger and even has a vision where he remembers Jaime shoving him out of the tower. No idea whether this made it into the filmed episode; Lads said that Bran had a few flashback visions in Season 7.

Edited August 1, 2017 by Eyes High

[SeanC]

19 minutes ago, Eyes High said:

Outline says "Meera stands, heartbroken. The Bran she loved died in the cave. Bran doesn't contradict her. She turns and walks out of his room, out of his life, and out of the series."

So I guess that's the last we see of Meera...?

RIP people's hopes of seeing Howland Reed, probably.

[ElizaD]

Unless the ending wipes out all magic (which I never found a believable theory), this Bran really doesn't sound like he'd want to rule Winterfell. He's even more wrapped up in his visions than I expected after the early leaks. I'd now be willing to guess that Sansa is likely to survive season 8 and be the Lady of Winterfell, with Bran as her advisor when he comes out of his trances.

Meera is alive and can return to her father. That's a reasonably happy ending in this series. Sounds like they've already decided we won't be seeing her again. Howland would mean nothing to the TV audience, so I'm fine with main charactes Sam and Bran getting the reveal.

Of course Cersei wins even when she loses. Ugh, I hope her final season 8 breakdown is spectacular when she sees dragons at the gates and finds out that Jon is a Targaryen.

[Eyes High]

11 minutes ago, SeanC said:

RIP people's hopes of seeing Howland Reed, probably.

LOL, yes, way to torment the fans. 

Meera: "I have to take care of my FATHER. HOWLAND REED."

Bran: "Oh, right, the HOWLAND REED who was at the TOWER OF JOY when Ned was entrusted with LYANNA STARK's BABY, whom Ned later claimed was his BASTARD SON JON, and who's the LAST LIVING PERSON WHO CAN ATTEST--"

Meera: "Gotta go. Goodbye forever!"

 

2 minutes ago, ElizaD said:

Unless the ending wipes out all magic (which I never found a believable theory), this Bran really doesn't sound like he'd want to rule Winterfell. He's even more wrapped up in his visions than I expected after the early leaks.

True enough. The writers weren't joking with their Dr. Branhattan nickname. 

Conveniently, in 7x03 Bran tells Sansa that he can see the past and the present, but omits the future, even if he's had visions of the future before. I guess the writers have to keep his knowledge of the future imperfect for plot reasons, but if he truly is omniscient, wouldn't that omniscience logically extend to the future as well?

 

Quote

Meera is alive and can return to her father. That's a reasonably happy ending in this series. Sounds like they've already decided we won't be seeing her again.

Poor Meera has suffered enough; she went through all of that and lost the person she loved to what seems to be a permanent personality change. I'm fine with her never being seen again onscreen and reuniting with her father, as long as she isn't killed offscreen in S8. Let her go home already.

 

Quote

Howland would mean nothing to the TV audience, so I'm fine with main charactes Sam and Bran getting the reveal.

The TV audience knows that Howland Reed is 1) Meera's father and 2) was present at the Tower of Joy when Ned walked into the Tower with Lyanna and walked out with a baby, so they know all they need to. The other thing that Howland Reed would bring to the table is that he is the only living person who can attest to the fact that Lyanna is Jon's mother without visions and such. The writers will probably write their way around this by having the masses believe Bran and Sam or by having Jon ride a dragon.

[TarotQueen]

46 minutes ago, Eyes High said:

7x04 outline page images posted here so you can read them yourselves, courtesy of /Tifalucis at /Freefolk.

Outline says "Meera stands, heartbroken. The Bran she loved died in the cave. Bran doesn't contradict her. She turns and walks out of his room, out of his life, and out of the series."

So I guess that's the last we see of Meera...?

The outline also has a bit where Bran has a series of visions involving the dagger and even has a vision where he remembers Jaime shoving him out of the tower. No idea whether this made it into the filmed episode; Lads said that Bran had a few flashback visions in Season 7.

Damn the Bran/Meera stuff kills me.  I've been nursing a fondness for this ship so hard, even knowing it was probably pointless.

I guess we never find out how the rest of Meera's life goes now either.  Dammit.

[YaddaYadda]

50 minutes ago, Eyes High said:

The outline also has a bit where Bran has a series of visions involving the dagger and even has a vision where he remembers Jaime shoving him out of the tower. No idea whether this made it into the filmed episode; Lads said that Bran had a few flashback visions in Season 7.

Well a Bran/Jaime reunion should be interesting, because there's no way he's not going north to fight. 

[TarotQueen]

I have a theory about this that always dissappointingly intruded on my Bran/Meera dreams, but I think Bran may end up needing physical help from a dispassionate party and end up choosing to leverage Jaime's guilt against him.  This goes with the idea that the NK marks will make Bran into the new NK.  Like Bran sees this happening and gets Jaime to take him back beyond the wall where he can go into hibernation or whatever.  

[Eyes High]

18 minutes ago, TarotQueen said:

Damn the Bran/Meera stuff kills me.  I've been nursing a fondness for this ship so hard, even knowing it was probably pointless.

I guess we never find out how the rest of Meera's life goes now either.  Dammit.

Meera really did love him, too--at least in the show--which makes it even sadder. Poor kids.

 

14 minutes ago, YaddaYadda said:

Well a Bran/Jaime reunion should be interesting, because there's no way he's not going north to fight. 

Yes, yes, yes. I'll be very curious to see if the Jaime part of the visions makes it into the show, particularly since it seems incongruously tacked on to the Valyrian steel dagger flashback exposition. You'd think Lads or Frikidoctor would have mentioned that Bran finally remembers that he was pushed by Jaime, although it seems unlikely that Three-Eyed Raven Bran will get overly worked up about it, since he doesn't seem to get worked up about anything anymore. I'm guessing Jon, Arya and Sansa won't be so blithe about it if they find out, though.

Edited August 1, 2017 by Eyes High

[SimoneS]

I am really getting annoyed with D&D's contrived plot devices to keep Cersei going. It isn't believable that Jaime would have entrusted the gold to anyone else so how on earth could half of the gold stolen from Highgarden have already made it to Cersei? Did he beam it there? I really hope this is something that they changed in the final script.

Also I am with Daenerys, is Tyrion subconsciously sabotaging her? It doesn't seem like he wants her to win and sit on the Iron Throne. I cannot wait for Jorah to return. He is a military tactician and will give her much better advice in season 8.

Edited August 1, 2017 by SimoneS

[YaddaYadda]

I cannot express how much I hate the Golden Company plot. Like hate. This is just name dropping at this point. 

Does she pay her debts to the bank or does she just use that gold to hire the Golden Company? I thought the Iron Bank would give her a really hard time that shit would hit the fan big time, but Cersei is apparently her father's daughter and yeah...Meanwhile, she's like the fucking energizer bunny, she just keeps going and going.

Cersei is this season's Ramsay.

[SeanC]

12 minutes ago, doram said:

Oh come on!

That's just bullshit! Bronn outruns fire???? For real???

At least if Bronn had knocked Jaime off, he should have got roasted in his armour.

The fire fought with honour.  Bronn didn't.

[Eyes High]

34 minutes ago, SimoneS said:

Also I am with Daenerys, is Tyrion subconsciously sabotaging her? It doesn't seem like he wants her to win and sit on the Iron Throne.

I don't think it's that he doesn't want Dany to win as he doesn't want the Lannisters to lose because he knows it will mean Jaime's death. 

The script page has this exchange (blocked out parts in brackets, although I've included guesses based on context):

Quote

Cersei: I suppose I shouldn't be surprised. She's very much your sort of woman: a foreign whore who doesn't know her place.

Tyrion: A foreign whore you can't abduc[t], beat, or intimidate. That must [be] very difficult for you.

Cersei: And so you brought her h[...], her pet Northerner, wh[om she] convinced to bow down [...]

Tyrion: I did not know ab[out that].

Cersei: --and now you [...] both committed to [...] you've been workin[g ... you]r whole life--

[Cersei]: --[destruc]tion of this family.

It is the [accusa]tion she's leveled at him for decades. He finds [....]g and exasperating.

Tyrion: [...]one preventing that from [happe]ning! Daenerys didn't want to [....]te and negotiate. She didn't want to bring you words, she wanted to bring you fire and blood, until I advised her otherwise. If I'm so committed to destroying my family, then why are you still here? (beat) It's a story you've been telling yourself since I was born, but it's not true. I don't want to destroy our family; I never have.

It almost sounds as if he's admitting here that he's been deliberately undermining Dany to spare his siblings, although I'm not sure D&D thought it through beyond "Saint Tyrion can't bring himself to do anything that would result in Cersei and Jaime's deaths."

Of course, I guess you could blame Dany for appointing as her Hand and strategic advisor in a war against the Lannisters someone who has a clear conflict of interest in that regard.

Edited August 1, 2017 by Eyes High

[SimoneS]

4 minutes ago, Eyes High said:

I don't think it's that he doesn't want Dany to win as he doesn't want the Lannisters to lose because he knows it will mean Jaime's death. 

The script page has this exchange (blocked out parts in brackets, although I've included guesses based on context):

It almost sounds as if he's admitting here that he's been deliberately undermining Dany to spare his siblings, although I'm not sure D&D thought it through beyond "Saint Tyrion can't bring himself to do anything that would result in Cersei and Jaime's deaths."

I am going right off Tyrion. Daenerys needs to fire him as her Hand. People are dying unnecessarily and even more will die unnecessarily because she is listening to his advice. If Daenerys kills Cersei and Jaime now, the dumbass lords who allied with her will have no choice, but to bend a knee to Daenerys and the remnant of the Lannister army will disband. This would allow Daenerys to ally with Jon to face the Night King to save Westeros. Instead thousands even hundreds of thousands of people will die because Daenerys isn't striking hard and fast to destroy her enemies now.

Edited August 1, 2017 by SimoneS

[anamika]

44 minutes ago, SeanC said:

The fire fought with honour.  Bronn didn't.

Okay, I laughed out loud!!

Jon advising Dany to go use her dragons? I like it.

[Katsullivan]

34 minutes ago, SimoneS said:

I am going right off Tyrion. Daenerys needs to fire him as her Hand. People are dying unnecessarily and even more will die unnecessarily because she is listening to his advice. If Daenerys kills Cersei and Jaime now, the dumbass lords who allied with her will have no choice, but to bend a knee to Daenerys and the remnant of the Lannister army will disband. This would allow Daenerys to ally with Jon to face the Night King to save Westeros. Instead thousands even hundreds of thousands of people will die because Daenerys isn't striking hard and fast to destroy her enemies now.

I blame the TV show. I'm not going to bring up the sore topic of adaptation vs fanfic but I will say that American TV tends to "dilute" good female power and this is an example of it. It's one thing to let Evil Cersei be ruthless and goal-oriented and single-minded because that's what Female Villains do (and that's why they are Villains because powerful women are dangerous, dontchaknowit?)  but once we moved past the books, they started writing Dany as someone who wrings her hands and worries about collateral damage. 

I'm not saying that Dany worrying about collateral damage is OOC. She has always been more smallfolk-minded that most of the other nobility on this show. But the show has taken it to an extreme where she's effectually powerless and when she does exert strength, she's regarded by Tyrion as potentially crazy and Jon, her love interest, is "disappointed" in her for not living up to the non-existent pedestal he's placed her on. 

Also, the idea of Dany asking Jon for advice on how to win her wars is enraging. Dany didn't need Barristan or Jorah to sack Astapor. She didn't look away when she marched towards Mereen. Before Tyrion Dinklage showed up, she would take advice from all her advisors and come to a decision based on her instincts and their counsel. But Tyrion shows up and she does everything he tells her to do.

Now apparently, we're going to have to sit through episodes of Dany talking, and then side-eyeing Jon for approval. Kill me now. ?

5 minutes ago, anamika said:

Jon advising Dany to go use her dragons? I like it.

Actually he was advising her not to.

Or did I get something wrong?

Edited August 1, 2017 by Katsullivan

[anamika]

42 minutes ago, Katsullivan said:

Actually he was advising her not to.

Or did I get something wrong?

 

Oops you are right.  But I guess he has always been anti burning people alive so that's understandable.

So everyone is telling her not to use the dragons. Like what's the point then...

How was Tyrion planning to win this war without deploying the dragons. I am not understanding his grand strategy here. They have already pretty much lost.

Edit: Properly read the script pages. The battle sounds awesome on page. So do the wagons get to the city? I want this to be a total loss for the Lannisters, but it sounds like some of the wagons make it into KL... Which ugh!

Also the script says that Tyrion loves Dany - seems like a confirmation finally.

Some other things:

She tried and she could not be No One. She's Arya Stark of Winterfell dammit! - I think that sort of puts an end to Arya leaving at the end because she does not feel like she belongs at WF etc. They seem to be contrasting her and Bran here.

Arya tries to get Bran to use his powers to figure out who send the assassin after him. Clever girl.

Still not clear on why LF gives Bran the dagger. It's almost like he wants to get caught.

Brienne congratulates herself on keeping her oath to Catelyn... despite Arya making her way to WF on her own with no help from Brienne.  In the trailer we see her fighting someone. Nothing about that in the script.

Edited August 1, 2017 by anamika

[Bannon]

1 hour ago, SimoneS said:

I am going right off Tyrion. Daenerys needs to fire him as her Hand. People are dying unnecessarily and even more will die unnecessarily because she is listening to his advice. If Daenerys kills Cersei and Jaime now, the dumbass lords who allied with her will have no choice, but to bend a knee to Daenerys and the remnant of the Lannister army will disband. This would allow Daenerys to ally with Jon to face the Night King to save Westeros. Instead thousands even hundreds of thousands of people will die because Daenerys isn't striking hard and fast to destroy her enemies now.

Eh, this is just a continuation of a major failing in the writing of the show, which is every character/faction will be conveniently converted into military morons,  so as to advance the plot as need be. The writers need the Lannisters to remain  a credible obstacle for now, so Tyrion becomes too stupid to grasp that the  Dothraki (who surely have very skilled scouts) should have the Lannister army under observation (hell, Dany's best use of her time would be just flying observstion sorties at high altitude every half day), waiting to pounce, with their hugely superior horsemanship, at the first opportunity the Lannister army can be attacked in the open, unprotected by fortification. Even without facing the dragons, the Lannister forces are hugely outclassed by the Dothraki in a battle of maneuver. That would't get us whete the writers want to be, however, so Tyrion, and Dany, really, become idiots, and take the kernal of a decent strategy, sparing the civilian population of Kings Landing wholesale slaughter, and turn it into a bunch of nonsense.

We've seen this before, of course. Yara recently became a moron, when it was deemed necessary. Jon,Tormund, Davos, and Wun Wun became too stupid to grasp how a giant might best confront opposing pikemen at the Battle of the Bastards, so as to allow Sansa's recruitment of the Vale to become the deciding factor. The idiots of Mereen build a giant freaking pyramid on a harbor, providing the tactical high ground, but when a wooden fleet attacks with flaming projectiles, nobody in the pyramid has the means to counterattack, so Dany and the Dragons alone can be decisive. It's been a consistent element of the show. If you are going to enjoy it, you just have to accept characters being temporarily lobotomized when it comes to the military action.

[SeanC]

59 minutes ago, anamika said:

Still not clear on why LF gives Bran the dagger. It's almost like he wants to get caught.

Chaos is a ladder, or something.

[Eyes High]

1 hour ago, Katsullivan said:

She didn't look away when she marched towards Mereen. Before Tyrion Dinklage showed up, she would take advice from all her advisors and come to a decision based on her instincts and their counsel. But Tyrion shows up and she does everything he tells her to do.

It sounds like she scores her only strategic victory by ignoring Tyrion's advice, and she saves Jon's life by ignoring Tyrion's advice in 7x06, so I think her days of meekly doing everything Tyrion suggests are over.

 

1 hour ago, anamika said:

Edit: Properly read the script pages. The battle sounds awesome on page. So do the wagons get to the city? I want this to be a total loss for the Lannisters, but it sounds like some of the wagons make it into KL... Which ugh!

Also the script says that Tyrion loves Dany - seems like a confirmation finally.

Some other things:

She tried and she could not be No One. She's Arya Stark of Winterfell dammit! - I think that sort of puts an end to Arya leaving at the end because she does not feel like she belongs at WF etc. They seem to be contrasting her and Bran here.

Arya tries to get Bran to use his powers to figure out who send the assassin after him. Clever girl.

Still not clear on why LF gives Bran the dagger. It's almost like he wants to get caught.

Brienne congratulates herself on keeping her oath to Catelyn... despite Arya making her way to WF on her own with no help from Brienne.  In the trailer we see her fighting someone. Nothing about that in the script.

1. The outline says that the bridge element is to be removed from the battle. There will still be a body of water (since Jaime and Bronn plunge into it), but no bridge.

2. I'm not clear if Tyrion/Dany comes up any earlier. I agree with those who have said that there's nothing in the first three episodes or in the 7x04 spoilers to suggest that Tyrion is in love with Dany. Maybe he realizes it later in the season...?

3. It seems in character for Arya not to be fazed by Bran's new powers and to start right away trying to figure out how he can use them. Clever girl, indeed.

4. Brienne priding herself on keeping an oath despite Arya getting home on her own irks me to no end as well. Lads and Frikidoctor said that there's an Arya/Brienne sparring scene where Arya takes out her new dagger for a spin.

 

8 minutes ago, SeanC said:

Chaos is a ladder, or something.

It is an odd choice of words of the many things LF has said to weird out LF with. Oh, and I'm sure Jaime will get "The things we do for love" thrown back in his face at some point.

[SeanC]

I was initially confused by Sansa being said to be jealous of Arya being given the dagger, but I guess that kind of makes sense since she doesn't know about Arya's weapons training at this point so to her it's just Bran giving one of them a fancy knife for presumed ceremonial display.  Or maybe I've put more thought into the nuances of that then the writers did.

[YaddaYadda]

16 minutes ago, Eyes High said:

It is an odd choice of words of the many things LF has said to weird out LF with. Oh, and I'm sure Jaime will get "The things we do for love" thrown back in his face at some point.

Quote

What do we have left once we abandon the lie? Chaos. A gaping pit waiting to swallow us all. Chaos isn't a pit. Chaos is a ladder. Many who try to climb it fail and never get to try again. The fall breaks them. And some are given a chance to climb, but they refuse. They cling to the realm or the gods or love. Illusions. Only the ladder is real. The climb is all there is.

LF created chaos between the Starks and the Lannisters with the Jon Arryn and Tyrion lies. His actions essentially started the war of the five kings. He used chaos as his ladder to climb higher, but chaos is about to swallow him. 

[Eyes High]

Gemma Whelan posted a picture of herself in post-capture Yara makeup (blood, dirt, etc.), talking about getting to meet Cersei. Pilou Asbaek commented "Little sweet niece...shhhhh....!!!"

/Freefolk is speculating that this picture and Pilou's comment are more evidence that Euron cut out Yara's tongue.

[Oscirus]

Jon advises her the same thing about the dragons. Is he trying to sabotage her too?

 

Meera deserved better.  :(

Edited August 1, 2017 by Oscirus