Season 7: Speculation and Spoilers Discussion

[Raachel2008]

20 minutes ago, Blonde Gator said:

I believe Dany CAN have another child, and not only CAN but will have a child, who may end up being the PTWP, who will rule over the ashes of Westeros.  Eventually.  I see Tyrion ruling as Regent until then in Westeros, with either Dany having died or returned to Essos to continue her quest to eradicate slavery.  After Dany rode Drogon the first time, fleeing the fighting pit in Mereen, she was out in the plains of the Dothraki Sea, by herself for a while, and became very ill, and then "bled".   So the "being barren" may not actually be true any longer.

Somehow I get the feeling that in the end, to end the Long Night, Jon is going to be forced to join the Others, in some sort of weird truce, and that mirrors what happened years ago before the Wall was built.  That's going to be the bitter, very bitter, if his family and Dany are still alive, but it's the only way he can protect them is to go beyond the wall, and live in misery indefinitely to save his family and the realms of men (and ultimately going back to his Night's Watch oath). 

I disagree, Dany would never leave her child behind in King's Landing to return to Essos to erradicate slavery. She can fight slavery sitting her ass on the IT, if she chooses, and I doubt that if and when she gets the IT she will go away for something she can do from KL. Even if she does, no way she would leave kidlet behind - that would be stupid and endanger the kid. Assuming Dany and Jon have a child, the only way I can see Jon not raising his own child is if he is dead or doesn't know he has a child.

I've seen this theory about Jon being forced to join the Others, and while it is a pretty good dramatic end for the whole saga, I don't think it will happen. I think Jon will kill the Night King - his big killing in the show. There is no truce, the Others didn't spend a millenia waiting for their time to come only to shake hands and go back from whatever hole they came from. There will be no new Wall or crows or Night's Watch; whatever happens after the Wall crashes, things won't ever be the same.

Just my 2 cents.

Edited July 29, 2017 by Raachel2008

[Blonde Gator]

I can absolutely see Dany leaving a child behind, under the right circumstances.  She's done it before, Myhsa to her people, and left them to fend for themselves in Slavers Bay, where in three years it will be as though she'd never been there.  That's her modus operandi.  Conquer and leave for the next thing.   And we've repeatedly see Dany being told "you're a Conqueror, not a Ruler".

There's not going to be a happy ending to this fantasy tale.  GRRM's all about breaking the fantasy tropes.  Regardless of what was done to show Rickon, that's always been a "shaggy dog tail"....a subplot leading exactly nowhere, and I expect bRickon to be cannibal stew on Skaggos.   Furthermore, GRRM has stated on numerous occasions that even the WW's are not pure evil.   No one is pure evil in this world.  We still don't know their motivation, and to expect the hero to slay the "enemy" and have a happy ending is just not going to happen in this story.   If the creation of the WW is to believed on the show, they have plenty to be angry about, and rightfully so.  I think they are tied into the Starks somehow, that the Children's first victim was a Stark, and that the Night King has been purposefully looking for the right Stark to reverse their situation.  Perhaps they WW's have prophecies, too, just like the heroes of this tale, and are just as driven to fulfill their own prophecies.  

There's just so much we don't know, and may never know, because I seriously doubt that GRRM will ever finish the series, and I am under no illusion that D&D will adequately explain how things get to their endpoint in the show.   Perhaps the main characters will end in the same place, but how they got there, presuming we get another season of time warps, and leaping logic/motivation warps, is not going to make much sense in explaing the WHY.  But it may be all we're ever going to get.  D&D are busily wrapping up the so they can get on to their next big project. 

[Raachel2008]

35 minutes ago, Blonde Gator said:

I can absolutely see Dany leaving a child behind, under the right circumstances.  She's done it before, Myhsa to her people, and left them to fend for themselves in Slavers Bay,

With all due respect, there is a difference between people you freed and whorshipped you, and  your own  child. 

35 minutes ago, Blonde Gator said:

to expect the hero to slay the "enemy" and have a happy ending is just not going to happen in this story.

I didn't say they were going to win over the Others, just that Jon himself will kill the NK.

ETA: For me it looks like the NK will be defeated, that doesn't mean all the Others will die. The NK is a 'main' character, his fate is as important as everybody else's. The way I see it, the story is being told as Jon Snow, the bastard of the North, facing again the NK. I don't believe for a second that Jon will die again, he will have Longclaw in battle since Jorah reffuses to accept it, and since he is one of the heroes of GoT and the hero of this particular story , I have no doubts that he is the one who will kill the NK. Will killing/destroying the NK make all the Others disappear? Will it happen in a moment where there is so much destruction Westeros is not the same? Will this battler happen in Riverlands and not near the Wall? I don't know. I just don't believe that things will come back to what they were before.

Edited July 29, 2017 by Raachel2008

[Blonde Gator]

I'm not arguing with you about what you did or didn't "say".  I'm just expressing my opinion as to what the likely outcomes may be.

[Raachel2008]

13 minutes ago, Blonde Gator said:

I'm not arguing with you about what you did or didn't "say".  I'm just expressing my opinion as to what the likely outcomes may be.

Then maybe I understood you  wrong, so apologies. My point is that whatever happens, I'm sure the NK is a goner and he will go by Jon's hands. I have many doubts if the enemy as a whole will be gone, though. 

One thing I've always wondered  is if the battle/war to come will also mean the beggining of the end for magic in Westeros.

Edited July 29, 2017 by Raachel2008

[domina89]

2 hours ago, Colorful Mess said:

Intercutting R/L to hit home the incest point kind of puts a damper on that though...probably meant to unsettle more than thrill. 

This.  I also think it's being done as a parallel to perhaps foreshadow that J/D getting together may cause more harm than good just like R/L.  It's an interesting editing choice.  

[amandawoods]

Also Bran saying that Jon is the true heir, means it's likely to come up relatively early in next season I think.  Although, I'm not sure by who. Who would care enough to bring it up at all when they have a dead army coming for them? 

Is everyone coming up north? Theon? Varys? 

[TarotQueen]

7 hours ago, amandawoods said:

Stupid question, but can Bran warg a wight dragon?  

I don't know if this sort of consistency always matters, but it would seem likely that if Bran could warg into human wights that he's had numerous times that would have already come in handy, but he always warged into Hodor instead and had him fight the wights.  So there's no reason to think a dragon would be exceptionally different as a wight afaic, but only GRRM and maybe D&D know for sure.

[bubble sparkly]

It seems like there has to be some massive gathering in early s8 with Jon, Dany and the whole boat crew going to Winterfell. Then Royce or some of the North dudes will go on another rant about the Mad King's daughter and Jon kneeling blah blah blah. Cue a series of revelations about Jon being R/L legitimate heir, JD being in love, Boaty the miracle baby, then more than likely everything being solved with a JD marriage (which will mollify the North).

With only 6 episodes and surely at least one being the big WW battle and another being a Cercei showdown, I don't see how they could allocate more than one episode (or 2 max) to parentage reveals and the North being pissy about Dany.

Edited July 29, 2017 by bubble sparkly

[Edith]

Frikidoctor 

 

No, he does nor tell anything about pregnancy to Jaime in chapter 5

I updated the info in my last video. No pregnancy plot at all, except for a comment by Tyrion when he meets Cersei. He notices that she dors not drink wine an that she rubs her belly a couple of times. He says: You are pregnant! And that is all. No waking up covered in blood, nothing!

Cersei's pregnancy is just mentioned by Tyrion in episode 7. He finds out because she does not drink wine and touches her belly a couple of times.

That is all you will see about that this season.

Yes, the wight army walks through the breach too

This is what I said: Sandor Clegane looks at the Mountain and says: Some day I will finish you. So yes, this is a teaser for a future Cleganebowl.

Tarde o temprano acabará con él. Meaning that him (Sandor) will kill the Mountain some day.

Edited July 30, 2017 by Edith

[Oscirus]

Do we even know how long the rebellion was. With all the traveling back and forth, surely  it would've had to have been a couple of years at least.

 

D and D has been one big disappointment in terms of continuing this story once it went off the book. Once great characters like Tyrion, Varys and Littlefinger have been reduced to bystanders, and this show has been about going from moment to moment. I mean such writing is good for tv audiences since they admittedly know what moments to highlight, but it's shit writing once you go beyond the initial impact of said writing and that finale is proof of this.  I have a feeling the biggest topic points coming out of that finale will be: 1. Boat sex. 2. Littlefingers "awesome" death. 3. The wall coming down in that order.

I'm starting to understand why Martin doesn't want to write for this show anymore. 

[bubble sparkly]

57 minutes ago, doram said:

Why would the North be pissy about Dany?

I am just guessing this based on the Mad King's daughter, can't trust a Targ, she wants you to bend the knee etc. in 7x02.  I agree that with Dany helping to fight the WW the North should chill out and not bother with petty anti-Targ squabbling while they have an army of the undead to fight.  But I can also see D&D wanting some drama when Jon comes back to Winterfell.  Nothing major, probably like the Sansa-Jon stuff from earlier this season.  

ETA:  Honestly, if anything I could also see them having 1 or 2 North guys start in on the Targ bashing again solely so Jon has the opportunity to give a big speech about how awesome Dany is and making a public love declaration.  Cue a winterfell wedding before they head off the battle to WW.

Edited July 30, 2017 by bubble sparkly

[Stephanie1216]

The best ending is Bronn in his castle with a bunch of ungrateful sons (as Robert Baratheon said once" playing and fighting. While a highborn beauty looks on. while receiving a UPS truckload of "The Imps Delight."

[Raachel2008]

1 hour ago, doram said:

Why would the North be pissy about Dany? She saved their King and their own collective butts by default when she Big Damn Hero'd the day. They will be the first to fall when the Wall comes down, and they need her and her dragons. More likely everyone will be too busy focused on the coming Apocalypse to worry about this. But even if they do, considering R+L = J and J+D = endgame, the North will be feeling smug about how everything worked out. 

I think the North would be against Dany for the simple reason she is a Targaryen and Northen folks bahor the Targaryans because Aerys killed Rickard and Brandon and as far as they know Rhaegar kidnapped Lyanna. Much in the same way, I supect the Nothern people will automatically despise Tyrion because he is a Lannister and the Lannisters killed Ned, Robb, Talisa, Cately, several Northern nobles and kidnapped Sansa.

Correct if I'm wrong, but Dany doesn't save Jon, does she? She answers his call for help when the wight hunt turns into a nightmare, but thinks he is a goner whe he falls from Drogon (or Rhaegal. cannot remember), and leaves. Then Benjen shows up and saves Jon, who somehow reaches Eastwatch. Dany doesn't save Jon, which doesn't mean she didn't try - her intentions matters here - and  if IIRC the spoilerst, the only Norhtener there is Jon himself.  So how did Dany save the North collective butts by default or not?

Anyway, I don't think the Nothern  folks will have time to worry that much about Dany once they see the first wight or WW. 

 I'm not convinced at all that J+D = show endgame, as in happily after ever, but agreed that they will be a couple.

I wonder where the WW will go when the Wall falls; Bear Island? Karhold? Straight to Winterfell?

Edited July 30, 2017 by Raachel2008

[Oscirus]

2 minutes ago, Raachel2008 said:

So how did Dany save the North collective butts by default or not?

Because if Dany and her Dragons don't show up then Jon likely doesn't have the time to escape long enough to make it to Benjen.

[anamika]

52 minutes ago, Oscirus said:

I'm starting to understand why Martin doesn't want to write for this show anymore. 

Martin does not even know how to finish his own bloody books. David and Dan have to tie up his loose ends and plots in the few months available to them every year with the bare bones outline he gave them. GRRM has been unable to put out one book in the time between the show starting and finishing.

Edited July 30, 2017 by anamika

[Raachel2008]

21 minutes ago, Oscirus said:

Because if Dany and her Dragons don't show up then Jon likely doesn't have the time to escape long enough to make it to Benjen.

You know, maybe there is a language barrier here (mine of course), but while I see your point, I could say then that if Melisandre doesn't bring Jon back to life, then Dany can't show up to try to save Jon. Dany doesn't save Jon, even though she tries. And she sure doesn't save the North collective butts - she may save them all in the future, but right now? That still has to happen.

 

19 minutes ago, anamika said:

Martin does not even know how finish his own bloody books. David and Dan have to tie up his loose ends and plots in the few months available to them every year with the bare bones outline he gave them. GRRM has been unable to put out one book in the time between the show starting and finishing.

I hear you. My friends and I often joke that if GRRM left it to Sthephen King or any of the big fantasy writers there,  not only the whole ASOIAF saga would have ended a good five years ago, but we would have like three or four full spin-offs by now.

Edited July 30, 2017 by Raachel2008

[Oscirus]

7 minutes ago, Raachel2008 said:

You know, maybe there is a language barrier here (mine of course), but while I see your point, I could say then that if Melisandre doesn't bring Jon back to life, then Dany can't show up to try to save Jon. Dany doesn't save Jon, even though she tries. And she sure doesn't save the North collective butts - she may save them all in the future, but right now? That still has to happen.

Fair enough, I tried to argue semantics and you called me on it. Using that template, you were right, Dany's value to them lies in what she can do for them in the future, not the past. Especially now that they have a dragon.

[Eyes High]

1 hour ago, Edith said:

Frikidoctor 

 

No, he does nor tell anything about pregnancy to Jaime in chapter 5

I updated the info in my last video. No pregnancy plot at all, except for a comment by Tyrion when he meets Cersei. He notices that she dors not drink wine an that she rubs her belly a couple of times. He says: You are pregnant! And that is all. No waking up covered in blood, nothing!

Cersei's pregnancy is just mentioned by Tyrion in episode 7. He finds out because she does not drink wine and touches her belly a couple of times.

That is all you will see about that this season.

Yes, the wight army walks through the breach too

This is what I said: Sandor Clegane looks at the Mountain and says: Some day I will finish you. So yes, this is a teaser for a future Cleganebowl.

Tarde o temprano acabará con él. Meaning that him (Sandor) will kill the Mountain some day.

1. Cersei not miscarrying would be the only significant mistake Lads made when it came to his spoilers, but it's a big one. Interesting. He's been correct about pretty much everything else, but that would be a big change.

2. CLEGANEBOWL FUCKING CONFIRMED GET HYPE. 

 

58 minutes ago, Oscirus said:

Once great characters like Tyrion, Varys and Littlefinger have been reduced to bystanders

I think that was always destined to happen when what seems to be called the "great war" in the show, the war against the WWs, kicked into high gear.

 

Quote

I think the North would be against Dany for the simple reason she is a Targaryen and Northen folks bahor the Targaryans because Aerys killed Rickard and Brandon and as far as they know Rhaegar kidnapped Lyanna. Much in the same way, I supect the Nothern people will automatically despise Tyrion because he is a Lannister and the Lannisters killed Ned, Robb, Talisa, Cately, several Northern nobles and kidnapped Sansa.

I dunno. Tyrion won over Jon easily enough, and Jon still trusts Tyrion readily enough and publicly defends him to the Northerners despite all the bad blood between the Lannisters and the Starks. Tyrion for all his ugliness (in the books, anyway) is very persuasive and even charming when he wants to be; he's dealt with tougher crowds than a roomful of butthurt Northern lords and ladies, and he'll have Jon, Bran, and Sansa vouching for his character. As for Dany, I have no doubt that she'll win over the Northerners, too, especially when she comes bearing gifts, i.e. an army, dragonglass, and two dragons.

Remember that the Northerners initially declared independence not because of the Targs but because after Robert's death, they felt that Stannis and Renly were nothing to them: as Greatjon Umber says, "It was the dragons we bowed to, and the dragons are dead." Well, not only are the dragons not dead, but in the books, that sentence was "It was the dragons we married." Hmmm. 

Edited July 30, 2017 by Eyes High

[Raachel2008]

9 minutes ago, Eyes High said:

1 hour ago, Oscirus said:

Once great characters like Tyrion, Varys and Littlefinger have been reduced to bystanders

I think that was always destined to happen when what seems to be called the "great war" in the show, the war against the WWs, kicked into high gear.

To be fair LF has extended his welcome, he should have been gone last season; that he will leave only in episode 7 is stupid and  accomplishes... I don't even know what he is doing there. I just can't with this plot.

Once Tyrion reached Meeren/Dany, D&D were unable to write him in that story in an organic way, IMO. Maybe some of my discomfort watching Tyrion mesh with Danaery's court was the fact he was an outsider there, while in Westeros he was Tyrion Lannister and he knew how to work and be within the parameters of that world. But the writing was a fail and  Tyrion is a character who really really needs decent foils. Dany obvioulsy wasn't going to be this person. Misandei and GW didn't fit the role, ser Barrestan couldn't. Things were marginally better when Jorah and Daario were around, but that was short ended. I'm looking forward for Tyrion/Cersei and Tyrion/Jamie. Peter, Lena and Nikolaj always had great chemistry.

I don't quite understand Vary's puporse, without his little birds his intel is zero, see, Euron's fleets. He had that scene with Dany reminding her that what matter is the people, but I dunno. Maybe he will help fill in the blanks of Westeros' history - Rhaegar, Lyanna, etc.

[Raachel2008]

2 hours ago, doram said:

Well that's true, isn't it? In my initial statement, I meant it in the sense of present and future. She comes when Jon calls for rescue and while she doesn't succeed in saving him, she does save everyone else and she gives him the fighting chance he needs for  Benjen to save him. By pledging herself to the WW cause, regardless of whether he bends the knee or not (and I find it touching that she's the one reminding him of his obligation to the North when he first attempts to), she's also securing the future of the North. 

I think it is a tad bizarre to say that, when the Northern Lords meet Dany they are not alllowed to mistrust her because in the future she will "save their collective butts". They don't know it, they haven't even seen a wight or a WW. 

I wonder if Rhaegal will die in some confront with Cersei or Euron, so the battle against wight Vyserion and the WW will be more balanced. Sure Qyburn can perfect that weapon.

2 hours ago, doram said:

Well the difference between Dany and Tyrion is that Tyrion actually furthered the Lannister cause. He was Hand of the King. He wed Sansa Stark. Dany, on the other hand, ended up being one of Aerys's victims - his actions led to her being an exile, probably contributed to her  mother's death and furthered Dany's vulnerability.

It's especially jarring to have someone like Sansa, who has literally no memory of the events of Robert's Rebellion having such a knee-jerk suspicion of Dany, while in the same conversation declaring that "Tyrion was a good man". 

I don't think it is jarring, I think is completely plausible. Sansa grow up listening the tales about Aerys burning her grandfather and killing his uncle; I'm guessing she knew too about Aerys going crazy full time and Jamie killing him. If she didn't know the last part back in Winterfell, she learned that in King's Landing. Also, madness runs in the Targaryen blood, so they  have a another reason to be wary of a Targaryen.

She can vouch for Tyrion because she lived with him and knows he had nothing to do with the Red Wedding or the death of her father, she also can atest he didn't try to bed her, force her and, as much as he could, tried to protect her. Remember Tyrion himself was forced to marry Sansa.

2 hours ago, doram said:

Throw in that they need Dany to survive this, and she was willing to help them before getting anything in return. 

Not really, she asks Jon to bend the knee. It is Tyrion who convinces her to believe in Jon and I'm willing to bet that if we get to see Dany learning from Gendry what is happening up North, it will be about Jon himself more than the mission itself. Because, really.

ETA: I think it doesn't matter that the North is wary of Dany or Tyrion, Lannisters or Targaryens; it will be short lived. D&D don't have time  to develop any deep, intricated study of the ties and bitterness between North and South, Lannisters, Starks and Targaryens. It will be all dealt in two episodes, top. Sansa will say they can trust Tyrion, Jon will defend Dany, and that is it. And let's not forget that it is not really about Dany, it is about the North reaction when people find out Jon is a Targaryen, thought I guess being half-Stark will be enough for them.

Edited July 30, 2017 by Raachel2008

[Raachel2008]

1 hour ago, doram said:

 

The North historically have a good relationship with Targaryens (and with Targaryen would-be Queens!). I think it's very interesting that they mention "we married the dragons and the dragons are now dead!" as the reason for seceding. It's also interesting that the War against the Mad King wasn't framed as the North's Rebellion or Ned's Rebellion, but as Robert's Rebellion even though technically, it was the North losing their Great Lord and his heir that started the rebellion.

Ugh, I can't edit my previous poster to add another quote.

I think 'historically' changed when Aerys killed Rickard and Brandon and Rhaegar kidnapped Lyanna. This became the new 'historically' for them. And it is Robert's rebellion because he started it and he became king, no?

[Oscirus]

2 hours ago, Eyes High said:

I think that was always destined to happen when what seems to be called the "great war" in the show, the war against the WWs, kicked into high gear.

Why call it Game of Thrones if it's just going to devolve into a zombie fight at the end with Jon being given the Iron throne for no other reason than because he had the right parents. This show is getting dangerously close to the last season of Lost territory.

10 minutes ago, doram said:

And it is Robert's rebellion because he started it and he became king, no?

Alot of things happened  before Robert went to war

1. Robert complained about Lyanna's abduction

2. Brandon comes to King's landing starting shit.

3. Aerys takes it way too far and slaughters not only Brandon but Rickard as well.

4. Aerys calls for Ned and Robert's heads despite the fact that neither was even near him.

[Blonde Gator]

The television series is called Game of Thrones, which was the title of the first book in the series. 

As far as television goes, "Game of Thrones" is far catchier than "A Song of Ice and Fire" which encompasses the entire series of books (maybe, if GRRM ever finishes them), telling a much broader story.  The 'Game of Thrones' is merely the opening setting for the far wider planetary history of Westeros. specifically, and Planetos more generally. 

The story encompasses many different peoples and cultures, from all different socio-economic backgrounds.  And for all of GRRM's attempts at bending fantasy tropes, ASOIAF is basically one of the three literary themes, "Man's inhumanity to man", with a soupcon of Deux en Machina thrown in for good measure (Gods including a world where magic is involved).  ASOIAF isn't new, but it twists the story enough that it has millions of fans, both of the written word and this crazy HBO series to which we're all apparently addicted.

QUESTION:  Would this show have been as popular if it had occurred before the internet age?  Personally, I don't think so, but it's an interesting point of discussion.

Edited July 30, 2017 by Blonde Gator

[Azi]

I wonder if Cersei's pregnancy story was simply moved to the next season? Aka maybe Lads didn't get it wrong so much as the show changing its mind.

Or it was a sending Myrcella to the Vale/Greyjoys/Dorne situation to find the leaker. :P

[OhOkayWhat]

Interesting reference to Cleganebowl in the leaks. I still think it makes narrative sense.

[Raachel2008]

2 hours ago, Oscirus said:

Why call it Game of Thrones if it's just going to devolve into a zombie fight at the end with Jon being given the Iron throne for no other reason than because he had the right parents. This show is getting dangerously close to the last season of Lost territory.

I disagree, if Jon ever ends sitting on the Iron Throne it will not be given to him, he will have earned the 'right' to sit there because he lead the fight against the WW and won. If he loses the war, there is no Iron Throne, if he dies, he doesn't sit anywhere. There is no other way, and that is Jon's story in the show: he doesn't ask to be the ruler, he ends ruling because people think he is the right person for the job. I guess there is a chance that Jon and Dany get married, she gets the throne, she dies and he gets the throne, but I don't think it will happen. In any case, Jon having the 'right' parents will be like Lyanna Mormont saying 'I don't care is he is a bastard blah blah blah', it may be a catalyst, a push in the right direction, but it won't be the reason he ends there.

Kind of the same for Dany, if she ends getting the Iront Throne it won't be because she had the 'right' parents, but because she earned the righ to sit on the throne by defeating her enemies, forming new alliances and helping kick the WW to oblivion. Having the 'right' parents help her claim to the throne, but it is not what puts her there.

GoT universe as created by GRRM has a 700 feet Wall and the knowledge the Others exist. The White Walkers are seen in the books, and throughout them there are several hints that the story will reach the poin where Westeros folks have to face the WW. Furthermore, D&D cannot change the main points of GRRM's story, if there is a 'zombie' war that is because this will happen in the books. I understand it is not evereybody's taste, but it is not The Walking Dead or IZombie. It is a conflict that will reshape Westeros and I can't wait to see how it unfolds.

 

1 hour ago, Blonde Gator said:

QUESTION:  Would this show have been as popular if it had occurred before the internet age?  Personally, I don't think so, but it's an interesting point of discussion.

That is a very interesting question and my answer is no, it would not have been as popular; there are lof of factors that makes the show popular, from pop culture/geekdom becoming almost mainstream to the 'banalization' of violence and sex and  HBO having the money to put up a superbly produced show, but no way GoT would be so popular globally without internet.

 

55 minutes ago, Azi said:

Or it was a sending Myrcella to the Vale/Greyjoys/Dorne situation to find the leaker. :P

Ooooh, that could be. But like you said, maybe they moved it to season 8? 

 

2 hours ago, doram said:

my point when the Starks were the reason why the Rebellion happened in the first place.

Okay, but once Robert became king how it could be called anything else?

 

2 hours ago, doram said:

I need to point out that this isn't accurate. She doesn't ask him to bend the knee in exchange for dragon glass. She asks him to bend the knee before she even know if he wants something from her. Remember she summoned him because Melisandre told Dany that she needs to ask Jon what he saw North of the Wall.

I'm pretty sure I read a spoiler about the first meeting between Dany and Jon being all kneel x there is a big danger x I don't belive in those tales x I won't kneeeel x kneeeeel x I won't kneeeel x kneeel x I won't kneeeel, which is probably D&D's way of foreshadowing that boat!sex! will have Jon kneeling and going down on Dany.  Anyway, then Davos says his little speech about Jon, Dany says her little speech about herself, and later Tyrion convinces Dany that she should allow Jon to mine dragonglass. That is not pledging to the WW cause, that is having Jon around until he bend the knee which she wants and needs, while keeping an eye on the KITN, which is the main idea behind it per spoilers. And let's not fool ourselves, she takes three dragons up North because she wants to save Jon, not because of the wight, or the others - though it is fair to say that Jorah is important to her and here I need to correct my previous post where I said Jon was the only Notherner in that little trip to find a wight. I forgot Jorah. 

But see, nothing of that will really matters once they see the wight(s). Anyone with two brain cells get their priorities checked after that. Cersei, of course, is a velociraptor going kamizaze, but then what would be the fun if she was remotely normal. This show needs its villains in season 8 and LF is already on his way out - but not soon enough.

Can't wait for tomorrow.

Edited July 30, 2017 by Raachel2008

[Leila6]

12 hours ago, tangerine95 said:

 

I'd love a sort happy ending with Dany and Jon alive and ruling together tbh.It is unlikely they will get that tho,but I would kinda hate them dying after everything.And I do see Dany as the more likely to die because Jon already had his big death,I feel like they wouldn't go there again.

 

 

Spoiler for Battlestar Galactica, but related to this discussion:

That's basically what happened to Starbuck, so as much as I'd hate it to happen to Jon, too, it's not even unprecedented in the annals of TV.

[Advance35]

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She can vouch for Tyrion because she lived with him and knows he had nothing to do with the Red Wedding or the death of her father, she also can atest he didn't try to bed her, force her and, as much as he could, tried to protect her. Remember Tyrion himself was forced to marry Sansa.

I'll be very interested to see what it's like if these two meet again for this reason.  Sansa admitted Tyrion wasn't a bad person (though not before the other Northern Lords, that was Jon alone) but she also counseled Jon AGAINST going to meet Dany and Tyrion.  Saying they couldn't be trusted.   It could be her inner Kings Landing, while Tyrion might not be a MORTAL foe at present, she definitely doesn't trust him (she has demonstrated she doesn't trust anyone anymore) and I don't think I see her speaking up for him publicly.  

I don't think Tyrion could win Sansa over to Dany's side.  Jon will definitely have to make her.

Interesting moment between Clegane brothers.  And I keep trying to figure out how the non-combat characters factor into next year.  Didn't Bran once give a prophecy or a vision or some such of Sansa with a suit of Armor behind her that was filled with Darkness?  Bran's chapters have never been terribly interesting to me but I feel like I read that.

Quote

Why call it Game of Thrones if it's just going to devolve into a zombie fight at the end with Jon being given the Iron throne for no other reason than because he had the right parents. This show is getting dangerously close to the last season of Lost territory.

Disappointing isn't it?  I figured this was coming.  When the more cliche characters began to take the spotlight I worried about my interest level.  Varys, Olenna, Littlefinger, Cersei, Tywin, pretty much the entire Kings Landing set Season 2-4 were the shows lifeblood and always seemed to be the most talked about overall.  Good Times don't last forever.

But yeah, Lord of The Rings, here we come.

Edited July 30, 2017 by Advance35

[Eyes High]

8 hours ago, Raachel2008 said:

Ugh, I can't edit my previous poster to add another quote.

I think 'historically' changed when Aerys killed Rickard and Brandon and Rhaegar kidnapped Lyanna. This became the new 'historically' for them. And it is Robert's rebellion because he started it and he became king, no?

Maybe, but it's interesting that the impetus for independence was not the Targs' aggression against the Starks, but the Northerners wanting to rule themselves again as opposed to being ruled by this or that Baratheon who was "nothing" to them.

 

7 hours ago, Oscirus said:

Why call it Game of Thrones if it's just going to devolve into a zombie fight at the end with Jon being given the Iron throne for no other reason than because he had the right parents.

It is "A Song of Ice and Fire," and one of the recurring themes in the books is that the political maneuvring is just a distraction from the main threat. GRRM also originally planned his third and last volume to be devoted to the war against the WWs.

 

5 hours ago, OhOkayWhat said:

Interesting reference to Cleganebowl in the leaks. I still think it makes narrative sense.

For any SanSan fans....IF Sansa decides to go south to deal with Cersei in Season 8, and IF Sandor has ominously promised to finish off Gregor...sounds like they'll share scenes together in Season 8.

 

 

4 hours ago, Leila6 said:

Spoiler for Battlestar Galactica, but related to this discussion:

  Hide contents

That's basically what happened to Starbuck, so as much as I'd hate it to happen to Jon, too, it's not even unprecedented in the annals of TV.

I've sort of wondered if the reason the show has played so fast and loose with Jon's resurrection is that it was never intended to be permanent, but we'll see.

Didn't GRRM use BSG as an example of a terrible ending of the kind he wanted to avoid, though? *REDACTED FOR SPOILERS* was a big part of what the audience hated about the BSG finale, if I recall correctly.

Edited July 30, 2017 by Eyes High

[Edith]

10 hours ago, Eyes High said:

1. Cersei not miscarrying would be the only significant mistake Lads made when it came to his spoilers, but it's a big one. Interesting. He's been correct about pretty much everything else, but that would be a big change.

2. CLEGANEBOWL FUCKING CONFIRMED GET HYPE. 

1. Yeah and a big one. That was supposed to be Cersei last scene of the season. 

2. The Starks girls are going to be involve some how. The focus on the Arya-Hound, the same thing with Cersei-Sansa plus the Bran vision from the book. I wonder how Jaime would  get involve in all this, if he's is the person with the golden armor. Also that comment Jaime made in season 6 about wanting to be present in the trial by combat against Cersei to see the fight. 

 

Lads said that he believed he fight against WW would be deal in the first 3, 4 episodes of season 8, leaving the fight for the throne for the rest of the season.

Edited July 30, 2017 by Edith

[YaddaYadda]

12 hours ago, Oscirus said:

D and D has been one big disappointment in terms of continuing this story once it went off the book. Once great characters like Tyrion, Varys and Littlefinger have been reduced to bystanders, and this show has been about going from moment to moment. I mean such writing is good for tv audiences since they admittedly know what moments to highlight, but it's shit writing once you go beyond the initial impact of said writing and that finale is proof of this.  I have a feeling the biggest topic points coming out of that finale will be: 1. Boat sex. 2. Littlefingers "awesome" death. 3. The wall coming down in that order.

I'm starting to understand why Martin doesn't want to write for this show anymore. 

I think that's what happens when writers value plot over characters. I don't care for the way they've twisted some of the characters into pretzels for whatever plot, or the use of some iconic line like "the north" remembers for some purpose. GTFO! The north remembered diddly squat last season.

11 hours ago, anamika said:

Martin does not even know how to finish his own bloody books. David and Dan have to tie up his loose ends and plots in the few months available to them every year with the bare bones outline he gave them. GRRM has been unable to put out one book in the time between the show starting and finishing.

Because he keeps expanding his universe. I have to say that I prefer this work over his original outline though. But I remember picking up AGOT at the same time I picked up the first HP book in 1997. It's been way too long.

11 hours ago, Eyes High said:

I dunno. Tyrion won over Jon easily enough, and Jon still trusts Tyrion readily enough and publicly defends him to the Northerners despite all the bad blood between the Lannisters and the Starks. Tyrion for all his ugliness (in the books, anyway) is very persuasive and even charming when he wants to be; he's dealt with tougher crowds than a roomful of butthurt Northern lords and ladies, and he'll have Jon, Bran, and Sansa vouching for his character. As for Dany, I have no doubt that she'll win over the Northerners, too, especially when she comes bearing gifts, i.e. an army, dragonglass, and two dragons.

Remember that the Northerners initially declared independence not because of the Targs but because after Robert's death, they felt that Stannis and Renly were nothing to them: as Greatjon Umber says, "It was the dragons we bowed to, and the dragons are dead." Well, not only are the dragons not dead, but in the books, that sentence was "It was the dragons we married." Hmmm. 

I think someone should take the time to remind others that Tyrion was taken against his will and accused of being the mastermind behind what happened to Bran even though he had nothing to do with it. Part of this whole fiasco finds its roots in that one action. 

Also, that line you brought up has always been one of my favorites and I'm sure it will be significant moving forward. And this line was also brought up on the show before the lords named Robb their king. 

10 hours ago, doram said:

The North historically have a good relationship with Targaryens (and with Targaryen would-be Queens!). I think it's very interesting that they mention "we married the dragons and the dragons are now dead!" as the reason for seceding. It's also interesting that the War against the Mad King wasn't framed as the North's Rebellion or Ned's Rebellion, but as Robert's Rebellion even though technically, it was the North losing their Great Lord and his heir that started the rebellion. 

Or Jon Arryn's rebellion since he is the one who called his banners first. 

It's interesting that nothing happened until Ned and Robert's heads were called for. Lyanna abducted by the crown prince? The only person who reacts to that is Brandon. Aerys has him and his companions, a Royce, a Arryn and a Mallister killed along with their fathers, but it's the threat to Ned and Robert that tips the scales. Okay. 

For me personally, it's Wyman Manderly's very awesome speech to Davos in Dance, when he talks about Rhaegar Frey and is practically insulted that he bears the name of the dragon that makes me think that the Manderlys at least would support a Targ restoration. 

I think the show missed an opportunity with all the scheming happening in the north to bring the Starks back to Winterfell.

Edited July 30, 2017 by YaddaYadda

[Eyes High]

8 minutes ago, YaddaYadda said:

I think someone should take the time to remind others that Tyrion was taken against his will and accused of being the mastermind behind what happened to Bran even though he had nothing to do with it. Part of this whole fiasco finds its roots in that one action. 

I believe that according to Frikidoctor, when Sansa is rhyming off LF's betrayals in front of the Northern lords, she specifically mentions that he lied about the dagger being Tyrion's. 

 

Quote

Also, that line you brought up has always been one of my favorites and I'm sure it will be significant moving forward. And this line was also brought up on the show before the lords named Robb their king. 

In the show, it was "It was the dragons we bowed to." In the books, the wording "It was the dragons we married" is a particularly interesting phrase, since we know from the related histories that the Starks and Targs have never intermarried before.

[Edith]

12 minutes ago, Eyes High said:

I believe that according to Frikidoctor, when Sansa is rhyming off LF's betrayals in front of the Northern lords, she specifically mentions that he lied about the dagger being Tyrion's. 

 

In the show, it was "It was the dragons we bowed to." In the books, the wording "It was the dragons we married" is a particularly interesting phrase, since we know from the related histories that the Starks and Targs have never intermarried before.

A clue for Lyanna and Rhaegar. Lyanna daughter of two Starks and Rhaegar the son of two Targs.

[stagmania]

18 hours ago, Raachel2008 said:

No kidding, I don't think anyone will be happy at the end of season 8, though I will be relieved to know the end of the story. I would love all those people to get their happy endings, but that is not going to happen.

17 hours ago, Brn2bwild said:

Since GoT likes to mess with people's expectations, and people's expectations are that Jon or Dany dies before the end, what if they're setting it up to have all of the major characters survive?

I actually think we're heading for a crowd-pleasing ending. The show is not like the books-it's built for hell yeah! moments and fist pumps (often at the expense of consistent characterization or plots that make any sense). It's a huge part of the culture, the last big collective viewing show to survive the peak TV era. I can't imagine D&D want to go out with everyone disappointed. I'd put my money on Jon Snow and Khaleesi ruling together with their pals Tyrion, Brienne (+ Tormund!) and the Starks hanging around. Cersei and Jaime will go down (probably at each other's hands) and we'll get a few noble deaths in the WW war (Davos? Jorah? Sandor?), but most of the big fan favorites will be safe from here on out.

[YaddaYadda]

16 minutes ago, Eyes High said:

In the show, it was "It was the dragons we bowed to." In the books, the wording "It was the dragons we married" is a particularly interesting phrase, since we know from the related histories that the Starks and Targs have never intermarried before.

No, they never have. I tend to go back to a Robert line in AGOT, "Rhaegar ... Rhaegar won, damn him. I killed him, Ned, I drove the spike right through that black armor into his black heart, and he died at my feet. They made up songs about it. Yet somehow he still won. He has Lyanna now, and I have her (Cersei)."

If he kidnapped her and raped her to death, how would he have her in the afterlife? Wouldn't he be rotting in some special kind of hell for those actions? I'm just sayin'. 

[Affogato]

On 7/28/2017 at 11:12 AM, SeanC said:

Assuming this is from the books (and this seems like something that would be a book detail), Aegon would have to be a name choice that Lyanna made herself after hearing about the sack of KL and the death of Rhaegar's other son Aegon.

Though in a lot of ways I think the fuss around Jon's birth name is overblown.  It's not like he's going to start going by Aegon, after all.  Jon is his name, for all intents and purposes.

Well if people start cheering in the streets for king aegon it starts to have meaning, maybe if he's riding an ice dragon or something, whatever his sisters and friends call him over lunch. Not saying he/they will, mind you.

[Affogato]

13 hours ago, anamika said:

Martin does not even know how to finish his own bloody books. David and Dan have to tie up his loose ends and plots in the few months available to them every year with the bare bones outline he gave them. GRRM has been unable to put out one book in the time between the show starting and finishing.

I remember somebody comparing famous series, Martin having put out one book in the time others had put out 7 books, but the same word count. They are long books.

[SeanC]

It's worth noting that, for all the discussion of the breadth of Lads' spoilers, the most notable feature of them was how early in the process they emerged.  People like GOTit111 over on Freefolk are seeing the episodes a week or so in advance and providing spoilers based on that, so it seems like we'd have gotten the skinny on the season in advance regardless.  This is noteworthy when thinking of the final season; even if the new scripting procedures can prevent another Lads in the early months of filming, when the episode starting getting distributed for dubbing, airing, etc. it'll likely prove impossible to stop leaks.  Most people involved will not leak, of course, but it only takes one.

[Affogato]

10 hours ago, Blonde Gator said:

QUESTION:  Would this show have been as popular if it had occurred before the internet age?  Personally, I don't think so, but it's an interesting point of discussion.

 

It would have been watched faithfully, but it wouldn't have become a hobby for as many people.  I think there was a belief in the essential goodness of people and brightness of the future that kept Star Trek alive until it could be revived, and also star trek had more endless future storylines.

[OhOkayWhat]

4 hours ago, Eyes High said:

For any SanSan fans....IF Sansa decides to go south to deal with Cersei in Season 8, and IF Sandor has ominously promised to finish off Gregor...sounds like they'll share scenes together in Season 8.

Sansan is almost nonexistent in the show. I think Sansa will lead the people traveling south but she will stay as far as possible of KL. Instead, she'll send Arya to kill Cercei (without knowing Cercei and Gregor are in Arya's list) After sparring with Brienne, Arya will think she'll be able to defeat the Mountain. Big miscalculation. And then, Cleganebowl happens!. I think that's where the Hound-Arya arc will go.

Edited July 30, 2017 by OhOkayWhat

[SeanC]

44 minutes ago, OhOkayWhat said:

Sansan is almost nonexistent in the show. I think Sansa will lead the people traveling south but she will stay as far as possible of KL. Instead she will send Arya to kill Cercei (without knowing Cercei and Gregor are in Arya's list) After sparring with Brienne, Arya will think she will be able to defeat the Mountain. Big mistake. Then, Cleganebowl happens. I think that is where the Sandor-Arya arc goes.

What would Sansa do in the south if not deal with Cersei?

Evacuating the North is logistically impossible given the size of the population, and with the Night King's armies through the Wall, it's more dangerous to travel than to seek shelter, at this point.  A fortified position can be defended; people can't outrun the army of the dead when there aren't any physical obstacles in their way.

Edited July 30, 2017 by SeanC

[Raachel2008]

57 minutes ago, SeanC said:

1 hour ago, OhOkayWhat said:

Sansan is almost nonexistent in the show. I think Sansa will lead the people traveling south but she will stay as far as possible of KL. Instead she will send Arya to kill Cercei (without knowing Cercei and Gregor are in Arya's list) After sparring with Brienne, Arya will think she will be able to defeat the Mountain. Big mistake. Then, Cleganebowl happens. I think that is where the Sandor-Arya arc goes.

What would Sansa do in the south if not deal with Cersei?

Evacuating the North is logistically impossible given the size of the population, and with the Night King's armies through the Wall, it's more dangerous to travel than to seek shelter, at this point.  A fortified position can be defended; people can't outrun the army of the dead when there aren't any physical obstacles in their way.

Well, traveling as fast as they see to be doing this season is impossibly, yet it is happening. I agree that is unlikely that the North will be evacuated, though I wouldn't be surprised if we see people living closer to the Wall (Bear Island, Karhold, etc) leaving their lands and going to Winterfell for shelter. Until I see it on screen - and I don't think I will - no one is going to convince me of this whole 'Sansa is going to kill Cersei' idea.  In the bigger context of the show and both characters arc, it makes no sense, never mind that Sansa's main goal these two past seasons was to be as far away from Cersei as possible. I always go back and forth between Jamie/Tyrion or Arya killing Cersei, but I'm way more inclined to think it will be one of the Lannisters brothers. 

Someone said upthread that the first 3-4 episodes of season 8 are about the war against the WW and then the rest about who gets the throne. I imagine Sansa could be compelled to go South if she had no other option, or if it was something extremely important to the North OR if Cersei is already dead, but that would ask for some decente explanation. Because right now? Unless she has to abandon Winterfell to scape from the WW, I can't see Sansa going south the Neck ever again.

[Affogato]

4 hours ago, YaddaYadda said:

No, they never have. I tend to go back to a Robert line in AGOT, "Rhaegar ... Rhaegar won, damn him. I killed him, Ned, I drove the spike right through that black armor into his black heart, and he died at my feet. They made up songs about it. Yet somehow he still won. He has Lyanna now, and I have her (Cersei)."

If he kidnapped her and raped her to death, how would he have her in the afterlife? Wouldn't he be rotting in some special kind of hell for those actions? I'm just sayin'. 

I'm not sure it was ever a very real possibility in the books that Rhaegar kidnapped and raped her and there is the story the frog tells about the wolf maiden, which is relayed to Bran. That was Robert's excuse for a war, with a side order of possession being more important to Robert than the woman. He made Cersei into someone who would eventually take his life, too.

1 hour ago, SeanC said:

What would Sansa do in the south if not deal with Cersei?

Evacuating the North is logistically impossible given the size of the population, and with the Night King's armies through the Wall, it's more dangerous to travel than to seek shelter, at this point.  A fortified position can be defended; people can't outrun the army of the dead when there aren't any physical obstacles in their way.

Is there any possibility that Winterfell and other shelter could feed and warm the population of the north? They may end up moving south because everywhere they go for shelter is too full to take more. Like squirrels on a highway.

[Raachel2008]

13 minutes ago, Affogato said:

He made Cersei into someone who would eventually take his life, too.

So Cersei had no agency? It is all Robert's fault? Sure, Cersei expected something from Robert she didn't get, but she was never a nice person: just in the show it was told that she had always been mean to Tyrion,  cheated on her husband and mothered three chidlren from another man, watched her brother push a 10 years old boy from a tower, plotted Ned's death, ordered the killing of Robert's bastard, killed Jon Arryn, etc, etc et al. Don't even get me started with book Cersei, who physically hurt Tyrion when he was just a baby.

Robert was a dick who just wanted to fuck other women and drink and hunt, didn't care about Cersei or his kids, but he is not the one who made Cersei into someone who would  'eventually' kill his life (which she talked about openly in the books). She has always had it in her.

[Miss Dee]

I have this terrible, sinking feeling that Jaime kills Cersei because they're captured and threatened with a terrible death, and he chokes her (no weapons, so only available method) to save her from a worse fate. So even in her death she'll get mercy rather than what she deserves.

[MarySNJ]

On 7/29/2017 at 3:02 PM, Edith said:

The whole problem with Jon/Dany + kid living happily ever after if the little issue that both of them are going to be responsible for the biggest tragedy that's going to happen in Westeros: long night plus NK with death dragon.

I agree that Dany dying in childbirth is awful. Maybe she doesn't die like that. Maybe she sacrificed herself to bring the dawn fulfilling TPTWP prophesy. It will go with the HOTU vision in season 2. She leaving behind the throne/power to go north (season 7) but also leaving behind her family/child to fulfill her destiny. 

With Jon, I'll go 50/50 and only because the show are putting so much emphasis on his parentage. Even having documents that prove the whole thing.

Here's my 2 cents:  There's no "happily ever after" in GRRM's writing. He promised a bitter-sweet ending to the book series. If D&D follow suit, we won't get a happy ending either.

I speculate that when Jon discovers that Dany is his Aunt, he will not take it well. Incest is no big deal for Targaryens but it is a big deal for Northerners, and Jon is definitely Northern by culture. If Jon and Dany have a child together before he discovers the truth about his parentage, I think it's more likely that Jon will leave Dany and to fight the White Walkers/Others where he may die, leaving his child fatherless rather than Dany dying in childbirth. 

If Dany is not barren and does have a baby, then there's hope for a new generation after the war for the dawn. On the other hand, in that case Jon may be the sacrifice to save humanity, which would suck for me because he's my favorite character (never get attached to a character in GoT) and it would suck for Jon's child and maybe for Dany depending on how she feels about him after his abandonment. That would be one possible "bitter-sweet" ending. 

[YaddaYadda]

2 hours ago, Affogato said:

I'm not sure it was ever a very real possibility in the books that Rhaegar kidnapped and raped her and there is the story the frog tells about the wolf maiden, which is relayed to Bran. That was Robert's excuse for a war, with a side order of possession being more important to Robert than the woman. He made Cersei into someone who would eventually take his life, too.

I disagree with this. It's very heavily implied she killed was her friend Melara after visiting Maggy's tent. She was ten years old when this allegedly happened. She thought Melara was a greedy little schemer who had ideas above her station. 

That's not to say that Robert wasn't a shit husband who physically abused her because he was and I wish she had slapped him right back after he slapped her, but Cersei had the crazy in her already. She gave Senelle and Falyse Stokeworth to Qyburn for his experiments, had the Blue Bard tortured and had a bunch of innocent people arrested to build her case against Margaery. She pats herself on the back because she convinced herself that she's Tywin with breasts. The woman is certifiable. 

Edited July 30, 2017 by YaddaYadda

[Raachel2008]

27 minutes ago, MarySNJ said:

If Jon and Dany have a child together before he discovers the truth about his parentage, I think it's more likely that Jon will leave Dany and to fight the White Walkers/Others where he may die, leaving his child fatherless rather than Dany dying in childbirth. 

The problem with this is that Jon will fight the WW anyway. It is his war, he is the one looking for alliances, extra men, weapons. Jon will be on the field  regardless of his status with Dany or if there is a kid or not.  If there is a kid, I don't think Jon would ever abandon his child, as in leaving the kid behind forever - as far as he knows, that could have been what his mother did to him, which leads to another point:

While I do agree that when Jon discovers Dany is his aunt he won't take it well, I believe what will really mess up  him is that he is not Ned's bastard son. His whole identity is forged by that. HIs upbringing, decisions he made in his life, the way people treated him, all is a result of that. Jon will probably be relieved to finally know who is his mother, but, everything else will be a royal mess, IMO. All the Stark kids worshipped Ned, Jon was no different. He will be a 'true' Stark but not Ned's son. Never mind the Targaryen part of his true parentage. I think it will be like watching a trainwreck and the writing will probably be a trainwreck, too.

FWIW, I don't think that show Dany will be that cool about banging her nephew either.

[SeanC]

4 hours ago, Raachel2008 said:

Well, traveling as fast as they see to be doing this season is impossibly, yet it is happening. I agree that is unlikely that the North will be evacuated, though I wouldn't be surprised if we see people living closer to the Wall (Bear Island, Karhold, etc) leaving their lands and going to Winterfell for shelter. Until I see it on screen - and I don't think I will - no one is going to convince me of this whole 'Sansa is going to kill Cersei' idea.  In the bigger context of the show and both characters arc, it makes no sense, never mind that Sansa's main goal these two past seasons was to be as far away from Cersei as possible. I always go back and forth between Jamie/Tyrion or Arya killing Cersei, but I'm way more inclined to think it will be one of the Lannisters brothers. 

I don't think anybody was arguing that she would kill Cersei.  That role is reserved for the valonqar, who is Jaime.

My guessing that Sansa will be involved in the Cersei plot somehow mostly comes down to a simple story calculation.  The show will go into Season 8 with basically two enemies:  the Night King, magical uber-villain, and Cersei, the regular person villain.  Sansa has nothing in particular to contribute to fighting the Night King.  Meanwhile, this season has written her as being particularly worried about Cersei.

2 hours ago, MarySNJ said:

I speculate that when Jon discovers that Dany is his Aunt, he will not take it well. Incest is no big deal for Targaryens but it is a big deal for Northerners, and Jon is definitely Northern by culture.

People have been debating about this for a while, but at least in the books, it doesn't appear that avuncular marriage is considered incestuous in Westeros.  TWOIAF indicated that there are two instances of Stark women marrying their uncles (well, half-uncles, but I'm dubious of the argument that some have made that that's a big difference).