Season 7: Speculation and Spoilers Discussion

[SimoneS]

This blog summaries most of the main leaks/spoilers so far: http://green-chili.blogspot.com.es/2017/06/got-season-7-episode-guide-updated-2017.html

 

12 hours ago, Raachel2008 said:

Where are the original spoilers in Spanish from Frikidoctor?

Here: 

Edited July 19, 2017 by SimoneS

[anamika]

3 hours ago, doram said:

She has the authority of conquest. Basically, she kicked ass. They can acknowledge that she kicked their ass and toe the line going forward. Or they can be idiots, and defy the woman flying over their heads on a fricking dragon.

Agree. Which is I find it hilarious that the Tarlys apparently join Cersei because her enemies end up dead and then in the next episode they end up getting barbecued. Like, really Randyll Tarly? You rather go up against three fire breathing dragons than a weak, powerless Cersei Lannister? lol! He deserved to die just for being that stupid.

I am glad that it sounds like Dany wins that battle. The writers have to find ways to keep Cersei in the picture (I doubt she lasts this long in the books) so it looks like Jaime gets a few wins at Highgarden and Casterly Rock.

I am looking forward to seeing Dany on her dragon leading her army. The visuals are going to be amazing.

I am getting a bit sceptical of the Frikidoctor spoilers considering a lot of it does not add up with the lads spoilers, but if this

Quote

He has forged a weapon for himself a very impressive hammer with the Baratheon sigil emblazoned on it

is true, then it looks like the Baratheons are back with Gendry. I doubt this happens in the books because Edric Storm is alive. But Gendry has already taken aspects of Edric's book story. Gendry could end up with Storm's end on the show.

Fanboys (and girls) are going to go crazy when they see that warhammer...

Edited July 19, 2017 by anamika

[Tikichick]

12 hours ago, ParadoxLost said:

Didn't the spoilers say that Sansa orders it and Arya executes it?

I could be remembering wrong.

I have no idea what the spoilers say.  This was purely my own speculation.

[anamika]

Also David and Dan's continued disservice to the Jon-Arya relationship greatly annoys me.

Jon and Littlefinger meet - talk about Sansa

Jon and Tyrion meet - talk about Sansa

Jon and Theon meet - talk about Sansa

Jon and Gendry meet - *crickets* - by any chance is there a character that the two of you have in common that you could talk about? No? Aaargh!

[YaddaYadda]

I haven't read the leaks with Varys and Dany and the whole bending the knee, but he seemed to believe that she could be a good ruler back in I don't remember which season, he sent her Tyrion, got her an alliance with the Reach and Dorne, so wouldn't he have bent the knee already? Varys and Dany never shared a scene even though he's been shown standing behind her. So she'd ask him to bend the knee just now?  

I'd actually like to see Varys be out of his depth a bit and not knowing something for a change.

And Mel changing her mind once more about the PtwP? Seems the Hound and Beric are a hell of a lot better at looking into the flames than she is.  

[SimoneS]

As a Varys fan, I am disappointed in these leaks.  It is poor storytelling that Daenerys allowed him to enter her service without demanding his loyalty.  Since he is backtracking and suddenly has doubts about Daenerys, I can only think that this is a device to generate conflict and doubt about Daenerys with Tyrion.  Varys was sidelined last season and seems to be even more so this season. I thought we would see him back in action matching wits with Qyburn from afar, but it doesn't look like this happens. I suppose Bran has taken the role of all knowing as the Three-Eyed Raven.

About the Tarlys, I don't have any sympathy for anyone who chooses sides with Cersei at this stage. Look at Cersei sitting on the Iron Throne, a woman who destroyed her family and alienated her allies. For goodness sake, she blew up the Sept in the middle of King's Landing.  Westeros already has a Mad Queen. She is deluded and power hungry and ultimately doomed. 

 

2 hours ago, YaddaYadda said:

And Mel changing her mind once more about the PtwP? Seems the Hound and Beric are a hell of a lot better at looking into the flames than she is.  

I don't think that Melisandre has a clue. She clearly is attempting to discern signs and failing miserably. I haven't forgiven her for burning Shireen alive and won't shed a tear if she meets a similarly painful end.

Edited July 19, 2017 by SimoneS

[piequinn35]

I just found out that Gendry actor is in the starring role not guest, is he the one that will make them dragonglass weapons for the WW. I know the battle with the WW will take place next season and I am guessing the fall of the wall will be on this season finale or episode 6.

[Tikichick]

Any potential that with information gleaned from Jorah that Dany will be able to send an army of stonemen against the WW?  If Jorah learns the cure, might Dany be able to protect the unsullied in hand to hand combat by turning them into stonemen for battle, with the knowledge that they will take the cure after.

Seems quite a stretch, but I cannot avoid considering the stonemen seem an almost deliberate counterpoint to the icy army on the march.

[Raachel2008]

4 minutes ago, Tikichick said:

Any potential that with information gleaned from Jorah that Dany will be able to send an army of stonemen against the WW?  If Jorah learns the cure, might Dany be able to protect the unsullied in hand to hand combat by turning them into stonemen for battle, with the knowledge that they will take the cure after.

That sounds, I dunno, cruel? Spoilers say the cure hurts a lot, and I'm not sure becoming a stoneman doesn't hurt too.

I was thinking something different, though. Can the dead south the wall raise? Like, any chance Stannis will be back as a WW? 

[Tikichick]

15 minutes ago, Raachel2008 said:

That sounds, I dunno, cruel? Spoilers say the cure hurts a lot, and I'm not sure becoming a stoneman doesn't hurt too.

I was thinking something different, though. Can the dead south the wall raise? Like, any chance Stannis will be back as a WW? 

It does sound cruel, but desperate times and all and suddenly who knows what's on the table.

It remains to be seen what power the Night's King may have south of the wall.  I guess Cersei potentially did everyone a favor with Baylor's Sept -- particularly since it also happened to be Joffrey's resting place, among others.

[Raachel2008]

8 minutes ago, Tikichick said:

It does sound cruel, but desperate times and all and suddenly who knows what's on the table.

It remains to be seen what power the Night's King may have south of the wall.  I guess Cersei potentially did everyone a favor with Baylor's Sept -- particularly since it also happened to be Joffrey's resting place, among others.

It is an idea, but I really don't think we'll see a an army of stoneman.

I would love to see dead Stannis coming back. Then see Davos kill him again. I wish. Anyway, I think that the NK may not be able to have full powers south of the wall, so the war can be a bit fair.

[Tikichick]

Just now, Raachel2008 said:

It is an idea, but I really don't think we'll see a an army of stoneman.

I would love to see dead Stannis coming back. Then see Davos kill him again. I wish. Anyway, I think that the NK may not be able to have full powers south of the wall, so the war can be a bit fair.

I don't think it's likely either.  I just can't shake the fact that they're set up almost like a direct counterpoint.  It's been driving me crazy for years as a reader.

[Oscirus]

14 hours ago, SimoneS said:

As a Varys fan, I am disappointed in these leaks.  It is poor storytelling that Daenerys allowed him to enter her service without demanding his loyalty.  Since he is backtracking and suddenly has doubts about Daenerys, I can only think that this is a device to generate conflict and doubt about Daenerys with Tyrion.  Varys was sidelined last season and seems to be even more so this season. I thought we would see him back in action matching wits with Qyburn from afar, but it doesn't look like this happens. I suppose Bran has taken the role of all knowing as the Three-Eyed Raven.

I believe that Dany taking qot's advice and relying less on Tyrion's advice  and going more to her murderous way of doing thing is what's going to cause the divide between Dany and Tyrion.  We can probabbly handwave away the knee thing since Tyrion didn't even take a knee until after he was made her hand. She's not really strict with those in her inner circle.

[glowbug]

1 hour ago, doram said:

So it comes up once in a while that Jon has a stronger claim to the Iron Throne than Dany but I was thinking about it and I just realised that this is just an assumption entirely based on Jon's dick.

Aerys outlived Rhaegal. That means that Dany is the only living child of the last Targaryen King. Jon is the grandchild of this last King. Technically, that puts Dany closer to the throne than Jon.

And didn't Aerys disavow Rhaegal, knocking him and Jon by proxy out of the line of succession? 

Anyway, it will be interesting to see if this is brought up.

There was a discussion about this in the episode thread for the third episode of season 6. I don't want to clutter up this thread with that argument so I'll just point you to my posts, which show why Jon, if legitimate, would have the stronger claim based on the laws of succession in the United Kingdom, the primary inspiration for Westeros. Basically, the crown prince's children, regardless of whether the crown prince dies before his father, are before the younger siblings of the crown prince in the line of succession. 

Link

Link

I may be wrong about this but I don't think Aerys disinherited Rhaegar, although it was said he wanted to because he believed (rightly) that Rhaegar was plotting against him. He did name Viserys his heir after Rhaegar had died despite Rhaegar's children by Elia still being alive so that could be used as a justification for Dany's claim over Jon's, but she doesn't have a leg to stand on regarding Jon being the son of a prince rather than a king unless that laws of succession are different in Westeros than in the United Kingdom.

[Katsullivan]

4 hours ago, glowbug said:

There was a discussion about this in the episode thread for the third episode of season 6. I don't want to clutter up this thread with that argument so I'll just point you to my posts, which show why Jon, if legitimate, would have the stronger claim based on the laws of succession in the United Kingdom, the primary inspiration for Westeros. Basically, the crown prince's children, regardless of whether the crown prince dies before his father, are before the younger siblings of the crown prince in the line of succession.

This is a common assumption that is simply not true and contradicted by the history of this world. In the example that you put in your links, Queen Victoria was crowned as a baby despite her living uncles - something that could never happen in Westeros. When Maekar I died, another Great Council was set up and his infant grandson, who had a claim through his dead son was discounted in favour of Maekar I's living son.  Before Jaehearys I died, he set up a Great Council to determine the next King, and the line of his oldest son was discounted in favour of the second oldest son. When Aegon I died, his brother became King even though he had a young son.

In an alternate reality where Robert's Rebellion had never happened and Rhaegar had died under normal circumstances, and then Aerys died later, it is unlikely that any of his babies would be crowned before Viserys, based on the precedent of this story. 

Throw in the factor that these are not ordinary times: the Targaryen dynasty has technically ended, and while Daenerys is claiming the Iron Throne based on her being the daughter of the last Targaryen King, Dany could be Daniella from the House Who-Cares and she'd still sit her ass on the throne by the time her dragons and her armies bullied everyone into giving it to her. Which is essentially what the first Aegon did when he united the Seven Kingdoms under his rule. 

TL DR, Jon's stronger claim = he has a dick and she doesn't, as @doram said. If Daenerys was Daeron, this won't even be an issue.

Edited July 20, 2017 by Katsullivan

[Azi]

I really hope that the Varys spoilers work in context. Sadly, they didn't have a scene before but I think we can safely assume that in at least the time it took to cross the sea to Westeros, they actually talked to each other? 
And suddenly Dany is supposed to go "Oh, I just realized... you actually never kneeled in front of me? How about you do that now?" and Varys is supposed to have doubts? They never talked about what to do with the people opposing them? About what they were actually going to do once they got there? About what will happen to the people who oppose her? What kind of ruler Dany plans to be?

I really hope it leads to something more like, maybe Jon and Dany as a team being the ideal leader Varys wants (note: I don't think this will be what actually happens, but I could see maybe Varys wanting it) and not suddenly switching teams and helping Jon onto the throne. I mean, I never felt like GRRM is the big trope breaker some people think he is, but the person landing on the throne who doesn't actually want to be there is actually one of the most overused fantasy tropes ever.

Basically the burning of the Tarlys and the aftermath are the thing I'm most apprehensive about when it comes to all the spoilers we have, but the Jon/Sansa thing actually not being as bad as I feared kind of gives me a little bit of hope.

[Chris24601]

8 minutes ago, doram said:

Anyway, didn't Cersei basically spit on all that when she got herself crowned? By rights, Jaime, who was no longer in the Kingsgaurd, was next in line to Tormund as the King's uncle, and his closest living dick-bearing relative. Not surprisingly, no body brought that up while the Sept was still burning. :)

I know its just a stupid typo and you meant Tommen, but now I can't get the image of Tormund sitting on the Iron Throne surrounded by all his Free Folk acting like the comedically out of place Vikings from those old Capital One credit card commercials with all the highborns. Thank you for that.

[anamika]

2 hours ago, doram said:

I'm also beyond irritated at the burning of the Tarlys being the sticky point here. Dany arguably did worse when she had the Masters crucified, innocent and guilty alike. It'd be partially understandable if the Tarlys bent the knee and Dany still burnt them. But they refused to, basically choosing death over accepting defeat.

I am just going to be posting the Tywin quote everywhere. Seems to come in handy for all scenarios.

Quote

“When your enemies defy you, you must serve them steel and fire. When they go to their knees, however, you must help them back to their feet. Elsewise no man will ever bend the knee to you.”

So Dracarys it is.

Also if spoilers are true, Tyrion's plans to be cautious and attack Casterly Rock fails - they lose both Highgarden and the Unsullied are trapped in CR. Then Dany takes Drogon and the Dothraki and ambushes the Lannisters - against Tyrion's advice - and gets her first victory. Olenna's episode two advice sounds right.

Quote

Everyone leaves except for Olenna who gives Dany an "old womans advice". Says Tyrion is a clever man but she has outlasted all the clever men because she doesnt listen to them. Calls most people sheep but says Dany isnt a sheep but a dragon. "So be a Dragon."

Not sure if this was discussed, but an eagle-eyed redditor noticed that in the credit sequence at the wall, the sea seems to be almost frozen around the wall. The first image is from season 6, the second from season 7.

So will the wall still be effective if the WW walk on that frozen sea and get past it ...

Edited July 20, 2017 by anamika

[Azi]

Huh. If the White Walkers can freeze the sea, why didn't they do so sooner? I guess it took them so long to get their full power back? It's definitely a cool observation!

For the record: I technically don't even have anything against Dany executing the Tarlys (even if I wish that Dickon would bend the knee, cause he seemed nice). I just hate that she burns them. I get that fire is her thing, but I just hoped that we were finally past burning people. I'm simply squeamish when it comes to execution scenes, but especially long and painful ones where people scream and fight. I can't watch them. So if there have to be executions, I prefer quick beheadings or an arrow to the heart. 
So basically if Drogon simply breathed fire once and they turn into ashes in 0.5 seconds, I'd highly appreciate it.
The other reason why I'm not looking forward to it is the discussion that will happen afterwards in fandom. It's not going to be pretty.
 

[Oscirus]

Since Robert took the throne, I don't think succession laws matter. It'll come down to who takes the throne. Targaeryan blood just gives a better claim.

[YaddaYadda]

4 hours ago, doram said:

I'm also beyond irritated at the burning of the Tarlys being the sticky point here. Dany arguably did worse when she had the Masters crucified, innocent and guilty alike. It'd be partially understandable if the Tarlys bent the knee and Dany still burnt them. But they refused to, basically choosing death over accepting defeat. 

I think this has more to do with everyone knowing who these people are to Sam. Randyll Tarly is an abusive dick. I don't think I'll ever get over him locking Sam up because he dared suggest that he might want to go to Oldtown and become a maester. I could see in the books why he might break from the Tyrells and go over to the Targaryen side though. 

4 hours ago, doram said:

I'm fuzzy on the details of the Targ dynasty but I vaguely remembered this coming up around Aegon V's time, and the precedent being set that the King's sons inherit before his grandsons. The analogy to UK rule doesn't work because, as pointed out, Victoria would never have been crowned before her living uncles in Westeros, based on her age but mostly on her lack-of-dick. 

They considered Daeron's daughter Vaella who was "simple-minded" whatever that means. And then Aerion's son Maegor who was an infant, which meant there would have to be a regent and a long regency where they might have issues along the way, and Aerion was crazy and a sadist, so they got worried that it might have been passed down to his son who was also given a pretty awful name.

The kingdoms should just go back to what they were before Aegon's conquest. I think that's the thing that makes the most sense. There's been too much bloodshed and betrayal and with people always jockeying for that ugly chair, a state of peace is never truly maintained/achieved. 

[anamika]

1 hour ago, Azi said:

 I get that fire is her thing, but I just hoped that we were finally past burning people. I'm simply squeamish when it comes to execution scenes, but especially long and painful ones where people scream and fight. I can't watch them. So if there have to be executions, I prefer quick beheadings or an arrow to the heart.

I agree that burning to death is a horrible way to go.  But Dany is a Targaryen. Their house words are fire and blood. The dragons are her weapons. If she kills, she is going to kill with fire.

1 hour ago, Azi said:

So basically if Drogon simply breathed fire once and they turn into ashes in 0.5 seconds, I'd highly appreciate it.

lol! Agree. Hopefully Drogon's dragon fire is powerful and they die fast.

1 hour ago, Azi said:

Huh. If the White Walkers can freeze the sea, why didn't they do so sooner? I guess it took them so long to get their full power back? It's definitely a cool observation!

I think the White Walkers are dependent on the weather. Only in winter can they move. That's why Winter is dangerous and the Stark words of 'Winter is Coming' so ominous.  So it's not the White Walkers who are freezing the sea. It's the weather - which could help them move past the wall.

Edited July 20, 2017 by anamika

[Azi]

21 minutes ago, doram said:

Didn't he also threaten to murder Sam if he didn't take the black so his younger, "jockier" brother would inherit?

Yep. Not just murder, but if I remember correctly, he told Sam that he would be the prey on the next hunt or some such. That man would have literally hunt his terrified son down and shot him like a boar. I basically have no sympathy for him (even if he does seem to be a voice of reason on the battlefield/while planning a battle, which I always find refreshing in a character) and like I said, if Dany would execute him in a way that doesn't make me want to fastforward , I'd say good riddance. Now, Dickon is another story. I fear that I'll mostly feel terrible for him and I wonder if without his father there, he might have seen reason.
I don't like the Greyjoys, but I do agree with Balon's sentiment about kneeling to someone you can't defeat. Yet.

[Raachel2008]

5 hours ago, YaddaYadda said:

I think this has more to do with everyone knowing who these people are to Sam. Randyll Tarly is an abusive dick. I don't think I'll ever get over him locking Sam up because he dared suggest that he might want to go to Oldtown and become a maester. I could see in the books why he might break from the Tyrells and go over to the Targaryen side though. 

But who knows that other than Jon? And who would care other than Jon and I don't think he would because a) it is not really his bussiness, b) Randyll's death happens before he arrives at Dragonstone? Details are a little fuzzy.

What I think it really matters there, IMO, is Sam's reaction. I don't think he will betray Jon or nothing like that, but that is his family, abusive dicks or not.

Ah, and I thhink you guys are overreacting witht the whole debate about who has a better claim to the throne, Jon or Dany.  IMO, there is no way both Jon and Dany ends season 8 alive, so whoever lives gets the throne, whatever the gender, law or place in the family tree.

Edited July 20, 2017 by Raachel2008

[YaddaYadda]

44 minutes ago, Raachel2008 said:

But who knows that other than Jon? And who would care other than Jon and I don't think he would because a) it is not really his bussiness, b) Randyll's death happens before he arrives at Dragonstone? Details are a little fuzzy.

What I think it really matters there, IMO, is Sam's reaction. I don't think he will betray Jon or nothing like that, but that is his family, abusive dicks or not.

I was unclear which is my bad. I meant the viewers/book readers might care how Randyll and Dickon die because of their connection to Sam, so I agree that the only reaction that matters is Sam's. Sam might be terrified of his father, but the man is still his father and Dickon is still his brother.

Randyll's death should happen after Jon arrives on Dragonstone., so around episode 704, I think? I could be wrong on that. 

It seems like only 14 days have passed between 610 and 701. 

[GrailKing]

My  latest speculation: Beric, Thorus, the Hound go North with Jon, we know through leaks that thoros dies, Jon is saved by Benjen, the rest by Danny.

In 7-1 we have a reminder of Cersei wanting Sansa dead. In season 3(?) Gingers are kissed by fire.

Beric's been broughth back 6 times; now that thoros is dead, Beric's is on his last life.

Sandor questions Beric why you still alive, whats your purpose ? Beric doesn't know, but he told Sandor 3 or so seasons back the LOL wasn't done with Sandor Clegane.

Sandor Clegane is fearful of fire, but in 7-1 he can interpret the flames, it's his luck to fall in with people who worship fire.

Some time later Sandor dies, Beric is near Sandor has a new life .

Sansa told Baleish she's safe in WF and family and Brienne, we know by leaks she sends Pod and Brienne away to represent her.

Cryptic picture with Sansa and a apple, Cersie and the pomegranate .

Cersei or LF himself ( B4 you know )sends an assassin to WF ( or wherever Sansa is ) Sansa is poisoned .

Brienne and Sandor arrived as people mourn Sansa's death, Sandor gives her the kiss of life as she returns he dies Sansa has been kissed by the Lord of Light.

Beauty and the Beast, and Snow White rolled together.

Edited July 21, 2017 by GrailKing

[SeanC]

7 hours ago, YaddaYadda said:

The kingdoms should just go back to what they were before Aegon's conquest. I think that's the thing that makes the most sense. There's been too much bloodshed and betrayal and with people always jockeying for that ugly chair, a state of peace is never truly maintained/achieved. 

Why would creating eight rival independent states make maintaining the peace more likely?

42 minutes ago, GrailKing said:

Cryptic picture with Sansa and a apple, Cersie and the pomegranate .

They don't embed clues to the show in photoshoots for magazines.  They don't even do that with HBO's own promotional art.

[GrailKing]

2 minutes ago, SeanC said:

Why would creating eight rival independent states make maintaining the peace more likely?

They don't embed clues to the show in photoshoots for magazines.  They don't even do that with HBO's own promotional art.

Take it out, speculation could still works.

Edited July 21, 2017 by GrailKing

[Raachel2008]

1 hour ago, GrailKing said:

speculation could still works.

With all due respect, D&D didn't even remember that Stannis told Sam there are tons of dragonglass in Dragonstone, which is something they wrote, do you really think the even know about the pomegranate? Fat chance, sorry.

I'm pretty sure the Hound will die saving Sansa or Arya, or both, but one Stark already raised from the dead. It won't happen to another. 

[YaddaYadda]

10 hours ago, SeanC said:

Why would creating eight rival independent states make maintaining the peace more likely?

Honestly, I was thinking more in terms of petty fighting/wars being contained within the borders of those independent states. These territories already have houses that have been ruling them for thousands of years or since Aegon's conquest. Until Robert, no king since Jaehaerys visited the north. And Robert went all the way there not because he was interested in what was happening in the north, but because he needed Ned. 

But yeah, there's nothing that says the Reach won't invade Dorne if they feel like it.

Edited July 21, 2017 by YaddaYadda

[anamika]

New Trailer for SDCC released!

https://twitter.com/dracarys_______/status/888404102832685056

Now we know why Sansa speaks in vague generalities. She's getting it from LF: "Everyone is your enemy. Everyone is your friend. Every possible series of events is happening all at once."

Jon saying the name Danaerys for the first time!

Also that ending scene. Melisandre hyping the Jon and Dany meeting...

They all sound like chipmunks in this trailer though.

Edited July 21, 2017 by anamika

[SimoneS]

Not a lot of new stuff in the new trailer, but it renews my fears for Yara. I continue to desperately hope that she lives long enough to be rescued.

I hope that Daenerys got the Dothraki to get wear some armour because a lot of them will be dead before they get to the Lannister army. However, Drogon is her not-so secret weapon.

Jon and Daenerys cannot meet soon enough.

Melisande and her predictions. We'll see if she ever gets it right.

Edited July 21, 2017 by SimoneS

[YaddaYadda]

50 minutes ago, SimoneS said:

Melisande and her predictions. We'll see if she ever gets it right.

She's covering her basis, not being as adamant as she was before with Stannis or even with Jon before he exiled her.  I am looking forward to her interaction with Varys. 

Also, on a very shallow note, Tom Hopper. 

Edited July 21, 2017 by YaddaYadda

[Stephanie1216]

On 7/20/2017 at 1:36 AM, doram said:

So it comes up once in a while that Jon has a stronger claim to the Iron Throne than Dany but I was thinking about it and I just realised that this is just an assumption entirely based on Jon's dick.

 

Aerys outlived Rhaegal. That means that Dany is the only living child of the last Targaryen King. Jon is the grandchild of this last King. Technically, that puts Dany closer to the throne than Jon.

 

And didn't Aerys disavow Rhaegal, knocking him and Jon by proxy out of the line of succession? 

Anyway, it will be interesting to see if this is brought up.

I don't know how they will do the succession. Cersai has zero claim yet their she is.

anyway, in real life monarchies look at Prince Charles, Prince William, Prince George, Princess Charlotte and Prince Harry. That's the line. Every time William has a baby boy or girl, it bumps Prince Harry down the line even though he's Prince Charles direct son.

Rhaegar was the crown prince, any of his children would bump his siblings down the line if it is done like a real monarchy.

[Raachel2008]

3 hours ago, YaddaYadda said:

Also, on a very shallow note, Tom Hopper. 

I'm so lame, I just thought 'you are so hot you'll literally burn, Tom Hopper'. I know, it is a bad pun, but it has been this kind of day.

Is it just me or Emilia's voice sound really  girlish in the promo?

Glad to see there are a couple of girls in the promo training with the boys.

I really really want Davos' line in the promo ('if we don't fight together we will die) to be from a talk with Sansa, but I doubt.

Jorah is looking good for someone this close to death.

For a sick codependent incestuous couple, Cersei and Jamie sure are hot.

'You can't trust a Targaryen', oh, show, stop being so obvious.

Mel wants her cake and she wants to eat it too.

They are hyping the Dany/Jon meeting so much, I'm sure we will all be disappointed. Emilia and Kit better have a decent chemistry or it will suck tons.

Edited July 21, 2017 by Raachel2008

[Minneapple]

50 minutes ago, Raachel2008 said:

'You can't trust a Targaryen', oh, show, stop being so obvious.

Yep, the "you can't trust a Targaryen" is spoken just as the camera pans over Jon. 

Melisandre is like Mel Kiper Jr., who predicts like 24 different scenarios for the NFL draft. She just predicts everyone is the Prince Who Was Promised and bam, she's right!

[Oscirus]

I believe  that once a  royal line is established, succession stays with that line until it's completely extinguished.  The question  of Jon's legitimacy lies with whether or not rhaegar' s second marriage gets recognized.

[SeanC]

30 minutes ago, Oscirus said:

I believe  that once a  royal line is established, succession stays with that line until it's completely extinguished. 

That is generally how it works, certainly when there are legitimate sons (daughters, etc. will sometimes open the door to people looking for end-runs, even if they're theoretically in the line of succession).

There are monarchies that work in other ways, e.g., Saudi Arabia, where the second through sixth kings have all been sons of the first, Ibn Saud.  But that sort of succession isn't really known in Westeros.

[Katsullivan]

4 minutes ago, SeanC said:

But that sort of succession isn't really known in Westeros.

Going by the World book, it is. The very first succession in the Targaryen dynasty was from brother to brother (Aegon I to his brother), even though the last King had a living son. 

Additionally, in all the situations where a Prince of Dragonstone died before the ruling King, there has been contention over who the Throne is passed on to. I think someone above mentioned how this was settled by Great Council. I remember at least that Aegon V was crowned King even though he was a fourth son and all his older siblings (except Aemon the Maester) had living children. 

People keep using UK laws of succession to apply to Westeros and it's frustrating because they obviously only have a very, very superficial resemblance to each other. 

[SeanC]

15 minutes ago, Katsullivan said:

Going by the World book, it is. The very first succession in the Targaryen dynasty was from brother to brother (Aegon I to his brother), even though the last King had a living son. 

Aegon I was succeeded by his eldest son, Aenys I.  Aenys would have been directly succeeded by his eldest son, Prince Aegon, but Aenys' brother Maegor stole the throne and murdered the would-have-been Aegon II.  The rightful succession was eventually restored when Aenys I's third son, Jaehaerys I, led (well, was the figurehead of) a rebellion against Maegor and took the throne.

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Additionally, in all the situations where a Prince of Dragonstone died before the ruling King, there has been contention over who the Throne is passed on to. I think someone above mentioned how this was settled by Great Council. I remember at least that Aegon V was crowned King even though he was a fourth son and all his older siblings (except Aemon the Maester) had living children. 

While it is true that there have been succession disputes, none of those have involved legitimate, adult male sons.

Jaehaerys I's eldest son Prince Aemon predeceased him, at which point Jaehaerys picked his second son Prince Baelon over Prince Aemon's only daughter, Princess Rhaenys.

Then there's the whole sequence of events that led to Aegon V taking the throne, which are, briefly:

- King Daeron II's eldest son, Prince Baelor, predeceased him.  Baelor's elder son Prince Valarr became the new heir, but both he and his younger brother Matarys also predeceased Daeron II, and Valarr had no living children.

- As such, the throne passed to Daeron II's second son, Aerys I.  Aerys had no children.  During his lifetime, his heir was initially his brother Prince Rhaegel (Daeron II's third son), and then, on Rhaegel's death, Rhaegel's only son, Prince Aelor.  Prince Aelor then died.  Rhaegel had two daughters as well, one of whom died later, the other of whom was of no interest when Aerys I eventually died, being succeeded by:

- Maekar I, Daeron II's fourth son.  Who himself had four sons.  The eldest, Daeron, predeceased his father, leaving only a daughter, Princess Vaella, who appears to have been, in GRRM's parlance, a lackwit.  Maekar's second son, Prince Aerion, also predeceased him, leaving a baby son, Prince Maegor, whose mother was Princess Daenora, Rhaegel's only surviving daughter.  Maekar's third son, Maester Aemon, foreswore all inheritance.  Maekar's fourth son was the eventual Aegon V.

- Prince Maegor was all of one year old at the time of the succession council, and between the council not wanting an infant king and concerns about his father having been a lunatic, he was passed over.

Edited July 21, 2017 by SeanC

[SimoneS]

The UK monarchy succession laws were very flexible based on the events at the time. Alfred the Great, the first King of what is close to modern day England, succeeded his brother onto the throne even though his brother had legitimate underage sons. "England" was in turmoil and under constant siege by the Danes so their father wanted to ensure that the kingdom was secure. In 1066, William the Conqueror invaded England, killed his rival, and was crowned king despite the fact that he was illegitimate. This is why I have never believed that Jon's illegitimacy (which isn't likely) has ever been a barrier to him sitting on the Iron Throne. I have no doubt that he and Daenerys will have a rivalry for the throne. He won't want it anyway. Besides, no doubt he will be in love with her by then and when they discover they are related, they will figure everything out.

I wonder if the North will reject Jon as their king when they discover that he is a  Targaryen. It seems overkill, but maybe this unrest will lead Jon to leave the North to be with Daenerys in King's Landing, while Sansa becomes Queen of the North.

Edited July 22, 2017 by SimoneS

[Stephanie1216]

22 hours ago, Raachel2008 said:

With all due respect, D&D didn't even remember that Stannis told Sam there are tons of dragonglass in Dragonstone, which is something they wrote, do you really think the even know about the pomegranate? Fat chance, sorry.

I'm pretty sure the Hound will die saving Sansa or Arya, or both, but one Stark already raised from the dead. It won't happen to another. 

 

7 hours ago, Raachel2008 said:

I'm so lame, I just thought 'you are so hot you'll literally burn, Tom Hopper'. I know, it is a bad pun, but it has been this kind of day.

Is it just me or Emilia's voice sound really  girlish in the promo?

Glad to see there are a couple of girls in the promo training with the boys.

I really really want Davos' line in the promo ('if we don't fight together we will die) to be from a talk with Sansa, but I doubt.

Jorah is looking good for someone this close to death.

For a sick codependent incestuous couple, Cersei and Jamie sure are hot.

'You can't trust a Targaryen', oh, show, stop being so obvious.

Mel wants her cake and she wants to eat it too.

They are hyping the Dany/Jon meeting so much, I'm sure we will all be disappointed. Emilia and Kit better have a decent chemistry or it will suck tons.

Emilia and Kit may have good chemistry but Dany and Jon are the most boring personalities on the show. 

I knew that the Stannis mentioned that the castle had a lot of Dragonglass but i thought it was to Davos. I remember the scene now, Stannis and Sam in Castle Blacks library. Sam KNOWS there is Dragonglass there but the show just acted like Sam read it in a book.

Also, if Stannis knew that Dylan's was at Dragonstone then Davos knows there is Dragonglass yet Sam had to send a Raven to Jon. Why couldn't Davos just tell Jon to go to Dragonstone for Dragonglass? Why force that story onto Sam and the shit bowls of the citadel? Sam has other things to do there he doesn't have to "discover " that as well. 

The plot holes are driving me crazy

Edited July 22, 2017 by Stephanie1216

[SeanC]

3 hours ago, doram said:

The real question here is Daenerys's lack-of-dick because the Council certainly seemed to go out of its way to ensure that female children didn't inherit. (simple and simple-minded, my foot. That smells like bullshit especially since Daena Targaryen who was awesome and not at all simple and simple-minded, was bypassed by another Council for... "reasons".)

There was no council regarding Daena, as far as we know.  Viserys just succeeded to the throne; since he'd been essentially running the kingdom for almost twenty years, and Daena had spent the last ten locked up in a vault and had a bastard child by an unknown father, it's not really surprising Daena had basically no support.  I don't think there's any indication that Vaella wasn't mentally challenged -- nobody ever felt the need to make that excuse about other potential female heirs (including Daenora, Vaella's cousin, seemingly alive at the time), they just said "no thanks".

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Maegor inherited from a brother who was King. It doesn't really apply to Dany because Rhaegar was never King. She'd be inheriting the Crown from her father, not her brother and there's precedent for that (for a grand-child who should technically be in the line of succession being displaced by an uncle). 

Maegor didn't "inherit" the throne.  He murdered the first two rightful heirs and then eventually died/committed suicide before the third rightful heir could defeat him.

[Oscirus]

To be fair, line of succession doesn't matter anymore. Once Joffrey became king, the rules changed.  It's a matter of who can take the throne and who can keep it.

Dothroki and the unsullied would be following Dany regardless of whether or not she was a targ. 

[GrailKing]

episode 2/3 promo:

https://streamable.com/v3350

17 sec. Sansa and Jon overlooking courtyard little children archery practice, 24 second in Sansa is worried, Jon leaving or someone arriving?

Danny on throne, Euron presents Cersei with gifts, Lady Mormont "your Grace. Winter is here.", Mel Talking to Danny, LF doing his thing trying to mind fuck Sansa, Yara paraded, Jon / LF, C & J sucking face, Jorah, Lannister army,Danny looks like she wants some Red Velvet cake,Carice looks glowing as a new mom.

Edited July 22, 2017 by GrailKing

[Oscirus]

Freefolk's episode 2 recap. Replace Tyrion with Theon in that last sentence.  

Most interesting thing to me is that season 1 call back being used as a secret code between tyrion and Jon. Well that and the birds apparently not telling Varys about Jon being the king of the North.

Edited July 22, 2017 by Oscirus

[Azi]

Well, that actually sounds pretty good? 
I'm especially glad that the Varys stuff sounds way more reasonable that Dany suddenly being all "Bend the knee, or else...!" Kind of funny how it's the women who all want to attack King's Landing. I do get Olenna and Ellaria, because they want revenge on Cersei really bad, while show!Tyrion seems to be mostly content with being trusted by a person he admires, with revenge on his sister comig second. Do wish that at least Yara would be against it, to have an more even group but alas.

Welcome back Nymeria! I'm not even mad that you don't follow Arya back North, cause I assume that will make your life longer. Just glad to see you again!

As for the Northeners... I get that they don't want to send their king away to his possible death/capture, but shouldn't they at least agree on sending someone to check out the lady with the dragons what with the White Walkers coming and such?
 

Edited July 22, 2017 by Azi

[anamika]

Dany's speech to Jon:

Quote

"I was born at Dragonstone. Not that I can remember it. We fled before Robert's assassins could find us. Robert was your father's best friend, no? I wonder if your father knew his best friend sent assassins to murder a baby girl in her crib. Not that it matters now, of course. I spent my life in foreign lands. So many men have tried to kill me, I don't remember all their names. I have been sold like a broodmare. I've been chained and betrayed, raped and defiled. Do you know what kept me standing, through all those years in exile? Faith. Not in any god, not in myths and legends. In myself. In Daenerys Targaryen. The world hadn't seen a dragon in centuries, until my children were born. The Dothraki hadn't crossed the sea, any sea. They did for me. I was born to rule the Seven Kingdoms, and I will"

I like it.  At least the show is acknowledging that Dany was raped by Drogo, unlike GRRM. Also nice that she is pointing out the hypocrisy of the so called 'good' guys who rebelled against Aerys and then went about trying to kill children.

[Azi]

Oooh, that is definitely a good speech. I'm looking forward to that scene very much. 

The poster who made the summary above described another scene in the comments:
 

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shit i forgot a scene with Cersei and Qyburn. The two of them go into the basement of Kings Landing where the skulls of all the dragons are being housed. Cersei mentions shes never actually been down here but Rob would come sometimes to drink and admire them. Sometimes hed bring his whores too.

Anyways Qyburn gives her a crash course on the dragons and which one is which. He shows her the big one cant remember the dragons name but it was the one Aegon used the most and essentially conquered Westeros with.

He brings up the rumors that Danys dragon was injured in the fighting pits with spears. "If it can be wounded it can be killed."

He shows her this giant crossbow device and demonstrates it on the skull of Aegons dragon. Shoots it, goes through the dragons skull. end of scene

[YaddaYadda]

I know the direwolves aren't nearly as important on the show as they are in the books, but are we going to see Ghost this season at all? 

Also Littlefinger can go and fuck off already.