S06.E06: Blood Of My Blood

[sumiregusa]

8 hours ago, Gertrude said:

So you don't presume to judge anything you aren't an expert at, right?

You don't have to be a writer to know what you like/don't like. You don't even have to know why you have that opinion - you like what you like. I don't cook often, but I know when a restaurant adds too much salt to the soup.

Thank you for replying so eloquently and saving me the trouble. :)

[Knuckles]

2 hours ago, stillshimpy said:

Randall Tarly in the books made so little impression on me that I kept forgetting I'd met him in that scene with Brienne.

Randall Tarly was a character I kept an eye on, because Martin's writing had taught me that someone that other major characters mentioned was likely to surface in a major way later. Stannis mentions that he is the best general in Westeros, Tywin mentions him and his leading the Tyrell army and in that scene with Brienne he is ruthlessly and mercilessly dispensing "justice" mainly by condemning and hanging men as quickly as possible. 

Mace may have been nominally at the head of the Tyrell army, but it was in Tarly's charge..and every major player took him very seriously. That's the book though. Show has munchkin Mace in plumes with some faction of the Tyrell force in KL...not besieging Dragonstone (??). The military maneuvers that Martin details in the books have some relation to reality...but the show has truncated those story lines to the point of confusion. On the show is the whole Tyrell army encamped outside KL, or just a division or so? If that's true, then it would be foolish to move the whole Lannister army to Riverrun, leaving KL to the Sparrows and Tyrell forces. Tarly would have been with the besieging forces, not sitting around having dinner at home. And if he is at home, why no ravens from his Tyrell allies, that things are going badly for the Tyrells in KL? He is their leading vassal. Again, it does not make sense.

[stillshimpy]

Quote

Show has munchkin Mace in plumes with some faction of the Tyrell force in KL...not besieging Dragonstone (??).

I did note the multiple mentions of Randall Taryls military prowess in the books, but for some reason the characterization on the page when I met him didn't really register one way or the other.  He's anti-rape and likes order, to which I said "I can't disagree with either point....? But isn't this supposed to be the near-monster who threatened Sam's life in his first page incarnation, and then had practically progressed to keeping Sam in a pit at one point?"  Not, mind you, that I want another freaky-icky-villain, I guess I was just expecting to really get the "yikes, okay, I see it...."  Instead he was kind of an ass to Brienne, but that's true of nearly everyone. 

Another thing from this episode was making Mace look even more ludicrous than he normally does.  He should have been talking about a horse of a different color, for goodness sake.  I wish they'd taken a pass on making him look silly when he was leading armed men.  

Edited June 4, 2016 by stillshimpy

[Knuckles]

Agree, the munchkin characterization of Mace is over the top...but Martin was very careful in how the various military forces were deployed in Westeros, and that I really appreciated. Since all power derived from might, and undergirded every decision,  Martin's careful maneuvering of those forces was very important. Again, the question of where are the Tyrell armies at the moment is important...even the dummy Cersei could see that removing the Lannister forces from KL and leaving the capital to the Tyrells is a bad move. Or is Mace in charge of simply a garrison force, as nominal head of House Tyrell, and the rest are arrayed somewhere near Horn Hill? The battle for Dragonstone in the books is on the opposite coast from KL and presents a problem for Mace and Tarly...it would take weeks to march an army from there to KL to rescue Loras and Margaery. Medieval armies moved on foot and horse at about 18-20 miles a day...and that's a very good, well-provisioned army. And what is Tarly doing, relaxing at home? He is their leading vassal... has he no word of the doings in the capital? Why?  Is there a raven strike? Has Olenna lost her wits? And Olenna may despise her son Mace, but she must know that Tarly is the man who commands her forces...why no message to him?

Tarly himself was much as I expected, a hard-bitten, humorless man with cold eye for weakness...in other men, and most especially his own son. He's not Roose, with his controlled sadism, Tarly simply has no tolerance for softness...he wants it gone or dead. He sized up Sam, found him useless and gave him one out, the Night's Watch, or he would have him eliminated. To Tarly he was a damning reflection on the family. He spent no more emotion on him than that. He has a useful son, Sam is a mistake to be remedied.

[paigow]

In a bizarre way, Mace would be the ideal transitional king if Jon Snow refuses the Iron Throne. Although a bit slow and buffoonish, he is not evil, manipulative or greedy. He would be the show tune king, loved by the common folk. Provided that he had a competent Hand (Davos) and advisors (Tyrion & Varys), Westeros could rebuild a more  democratic governing model.

[WearyTraveler]

It's Randyll Tarly, guys.

Sorry! I'm having a bout of OCD

[Knuckles]

25 minutes ago, paigow said:

Westeros could rebuild a more  democratic governing model.

Doubtful, they can't even make the medieval model work. The Great Houses are supposed to be loyal to the king, vassals to their lords, and the serfs to the lords on whose land they live. As we see, ambition and broken loyalties are everywhere...the existing church and it's orders are supposed to mediate somewhat on behalf of the poor, but usually side with the powerful and are protected and rewarded for doing so. 

Where power resides...here, as in many places, who controls the armies controls the power. And in the medieval world, there was no national or king's army...he was entirely reliant on his lords to supply their armies for his purposes. Yeah, the Lannister dynasty has an army of its own...but so do all the other Great Houses, who can rally for or against them, as we have seen. There is no sense of nation or nationhood, and the great mass of people are excluded on every level, with the exception of their labor, their bodies for war, and their meagre earnings for taxation. A greater inclusion would violate every social premise of the medieval world. Gotta wait for the Black Death to reduce the population numbers and give the poor, who have the labor and skills to keep things going, a bit of leverage.

[paigow]

3 hours ago, Knuckles said:

 Gotta wait for the Black Death to reduce the population numbers

Or the Winter of White Walkers.... The Iron Throne is not supposed to survive according to Dany's dream/ vision. Whether it is replaced by perpetual chaos or a new world order depends on the survivors. Societal change - along with Winter - is coming.

[stillshimpy]

t's Randyll Tarly, guys.

This would normally inspire a bout of purposefully wrong usage, set to music.  There might be choreographed dancing.  Bolded letters.  Thumbed noses.  

Randall. 

Yup.  I feel better now.  I decided to take it easy on you.  This time.  (fluffs boas and has dancers begin limbering). 

[Knuckles]

My last grumpy thought is has no one asked Brienne about that fabulous sword she's carrying...lavished with gold? Does she know the value of a Valaryian steel sword vs the White Walkers? Has anyone mentioned it to her? Might be an interesting conversation, since it was a gift from Jaime Lannister. And Jon, going back to season 1, might well remember that House Lannister had no Valaryian steel. Might remind Sansa that her father's great sword, Ice, was taken from him and never seen again. She asked after his sword in KL.

Again, it could be an interesting conversation for Jon, Sansa and Brienne. I know she is off to the Riverlands, but do these people never ask any questions?

[benteen]

As ridiculous as Sam stealing Heartsbane is, I'm rooting for Tormund to be given it.  Tormund will have a Valyrian steel sword and Brienne will have one.  Tormund seems like the right guy to have a sword like that in the war against the White Walkers.

[Maximum Taco]

11 hours ago, Knuckles said:

My last grumpy thought is has no one asked Brienne about that fabulous sword she's carrying...lavished with gold? Does she know the value of a Valaryian steel sword vs the White Walkers? Has anyone mentioned it to her? Might be an interesting conversation, since it was a gift from Jaime Lannister. And Jon, going back to season 1, might well remember that House Lannister had no Valaryian steel. Might remind Sansa that her father's great sword, Ice, was taken from him and never seen again. She asked after his sword in KL.

Again, it could be an interesting conversation for Jon, Sansa and Brienne. I know she is off to the Riverlands, but do these people never ask any questions?

To be fair she hasn't unsheathed it yet. I suppose she did when she was fighting Ramsay Bolton's men, but I doubt Sansa thought to pay attention then.

Any sword can be lavished in gold and rubies in the hilt. You wouldn't know it was Valyrian steel unless you saw the blade. I do agree that the Lion imagery should probably draw some looks though, it's very obviously a Lannister blade. That's how the Hound figures out that Brienne has been cozying up to Jaime.

[Macbeth]

On 6/4/2016 at 0:37 PM, stillshimpy said:

It was nice to see a location shoot, by the way, but that added to the strange sensation of watching a scene from another show.  Lighting levels were different, the dress seemed like something out of Jane Austen and then also?  Dude, it didn't even look like Autumn there, let alone "Winter is ...."

My take on dinner with the Tarleys was that this was D&D's take on GOT meets Downton Abbey.  The actor who played Sam's father was the same actor who played a mean father in DA.  Parts of Westeros is still at war and Heartsbane is on display like a piece of art?

I know GRRM has declared very loudly that in no way is Benjen Cold Hands. Fair enough.  But at this point in the story would Bran or Meera in any way trust a creature who was dead (IMO Cold Hands is dead) to assist them to the Wall after what went down with the children of the forest.  I think at this point Meera (Bran is basically an overloaded server) would question why would the dead try to help them get to the Wall?  Benjen is family and will work nicely in terms of where the story is now. 

[taanja]

On ‎6‎/‎4‎/‎2016 at 4:20 AM, Gertrude said:

So you don't presume to judge anything you aren't an expert at, right?

You don't have to be a writer to know what you like/don't like. You don't even have to know why you have that opinion - you like what you like. I don't cook often, but I know when a restaurant adds too much salt to the soup.

It's so easy to "judge" something from the comfort and anonymity of the keyboard. But it's entirely different to do something that takes actual talent day in and day out.

[Ambrosefolly]

On June 5, 2016 at 7:36 PM, Macbeth said:

My take on dinner with the Tarleys was that this was D&D's take on GOT meets Downton Abbey.  The actor who played Sam's father was the same actor who played a mean father in DA.  Parts of Westeros is still at war and Heartsbane is on display like a piece of art?

I know GRRM has declared very loudly that in no way is Benjen Cold Hands. Fair enough.  But at this point in the story would Bran or Meera in any way trust a creature who was dead (IMO Cold Hands is dead) to assist them to the Wall after what went down with the children of the forest.  I think at this point Meera (Bran is basically an overloaded server) would question why would the dead try to help them get to the Wall?  Benjen is family and will work nicely in terms of where the story is now. 

I love Benjen, but I don't entirely trust that piece of glass in his heart 

On to Sam. I read...other forums to say it kindly that aren't sympathetic and describes him as being cuckold and absolutely love his dad (or at least respect him more) I do agree with a few of their other points. I don't know how much of Sam's fatness is do to some medical issue or his disposition to "softer"pursuits like food and reading or some sort of combo, but after the trek to the Fist of the First Men, surviving the mutiny at Crastor's Keep, and the White Walkers and the trek back to the Wall, as well as the harder life in general (Edd mentioning to Sansa they weren't known for their food),living cold or even sub zero weather at times which eats up a ton of calories than living in a comfortable climate (a researcher thinks the reason Michael Phelps had such a high calorie diet is because he spent hours in cold water daily), Sam should be a great deal hardier and physically stronger than when he left and a great deal thinner, which is where I think GRRM projected too much of himself into Sam. He might not notice it because his follow brothers were also getting stronger and tougher and there aren't mirrors, but instead of being verbally admonished by his father, I almost wish either his dad or even his pretty boy brother would have clocked him, but Sam finds himself surprised that he is not only not that physically hurt by the attack but he is able to lay either them out cold with a single punch, part lucky shot, part raw physical dominance, instead of stealing away that sword. 

[John Potts]

Meera, you have no need to apologise. Bran's about twice your size AND it's his fault you're no longer safe in the cave.

"A person doesn't feel welcome when he's been threatened with death..." I'd imagine that would make one reluctant to return home. Though I barely recognised Gilly in that dress.

Is there only one punishment the Faith give out? It made snese that as Cersei's sins were sexual that she be sexually humiliated, but Margery's sin was perjury. Shouldn't her pennance be something more appropriate to that?

Lots of old faces showing up again. Lord Frey! Edmure! Benjen!

It's always a good idea to find the most impressive mount you can - and that's one really big, scaly horse Danny's got. Though the fact that Danny was pretty much echoing what Khal Drogo said five seasons ago was somewhat worrying - she claimed she was going to ravage Westeros to claim her throne. So much for Jorah's "You will be loved" as Queen - well not if she carries out what she just said. Now sure, she may decide against ravaging countryside, leaving a path of dead men, raped women and burnt crops, but that seemed to be what the Dothraki had in mind.

Richard E Grant's character sounds like every playwright, ever - "My stuff is brilliant - quit writing your own lines!"

On ‎30‎/‎05‎/‎2016 at 3:05 AM, benteen said:

Captain Jack!  Okay, I don't watch Outlander but I know about Tobias Menzies' role on the show. 

That's Black Jack (though his rank is indeed, Captain). Captain Jack is either this guy or this one.

On ‎30‎/‎05‎/‎2016 at 3:15 AM, Winnief said:

how hilarious was Walder's little tantrum about how everybody's now laughing at them?!?

"Hey, I murdered a bunch of people at a wedding, can't I get some respect around here!?"

On ‎30‎/‎05‎/‎2016 at 9:21 PM, WearyTraveler said:

Dany didn't kill Viserys.  Drogo did that with the molten gold crown.  Dany tried to stop it both, in the books and on the show.

What? I forget how the books went, but in the show she stood and watched it happen and said, "He was no dragon. Fire cannot kill a dragon." Not saying she had any realistic way of stopping it once Drogo had the idea, but she didn't try to stop it.

On ‎31‎/‎05‎/‎2016 at 2:49 AM, paigow said:

If Qyburn can revive the Mountain, some maester should be able to figure out some kind of blood test for Jon.

OK, now I'm picturing The Jaeherys Spryngor Show. "On last week's show, we had Gilly, who said that her father was also her grandfather - and our test showed that it was his baby she was carrying [Boo!]. This week, we'll meet Bobby and his wife Cersei. He says, she's been cheating on him - with her own brother! [Bitch! Shame!] Be right back after these intercessions!"