Season 7

[cuddlingcrowley]

So, the whole thing with Logan's rocket gift to Rory. Definitely weird and awkward. Maybe meant to foreshadow them struggling with communication, being on the same page? 

Does anyone actually think it was romantic?

Also, I personally thought it was odd that Logan and Rory wouldn't even discuss her spending the summer with him in London. 

Edited May 25, 2016 by cuddlingcrowley

[junienmomo]

6 minutes ago, cuddlingcrowley said:

So, the whole thing with Logan's rocket gift to Rory. Definitely weird and awkward. Maybe meant to foreshadow them struggling with communication, being on the same page? 

Does anyone actually think it was romantic?

I do. The backstory, once Rory told us about it, was sweet. Something about a tv show they'd watched together  and how much the two characters loved each other. 

[elang4]

Have to say my stand-out scene for season 7 has to be that karaoke scene. It just says everything. It starts out to be for Rory but as soon as Lorelai sees Luke, she just chokes up. The looks between them say so much and everyone knows exactly who Lorelai is singing to.

[cuddlingcrowley]

It's weird how when I first watched s7 I was in highschool and felt it was really abrupt when things started to fall apart between Christopher and Lorelai, like the writers were suddenly reminded they had to break them up. But now, rewatching the show as a 26 year old, it seems extremelly obvious how ambivalent Lorelai was to give it a go with Christopher, to say the least. Yes, she shares some special moments with him, but she seems overall botherline depressed, imo. I haven't reached that episode yet, but finally the line "You're the man I want to want" is making sense to me.

[FictionLover]

3 hours ago, cuddlingcrowley said:

It's weird how when I first watched s7 I was in highschool and felt it was really abrupt when things started to fall apart between Christopher and Lorelai, like the writers were suddenly reminded they had to break them up. But now, rewatching the show as a 26 year old, it seems extremelly obvious how ambivalent Lorelai was to give it a go with Christopher, to say the least. Yes, she shares some special moments with him, but she seems overall botherline depressed, imo. I haven't reached that episode yet, but finally the line "You're the man I want to want" is making sense to me.

That line always made sense to me. She wanted to want the man that wanted her;  she believed Luke didn't care anymore.  My daughter and I always thought she seemed resigned to her life in season 7.

[katha]

I think with Christopher it goes beyond that. She's shown to crave the fantasy of being a family with Rory's father, of having the "perfect fairytale life" her parents are always talking about throughout the years. I think rationally she knows that there are things working against that, but I don't think the ideal ever went out of her head. Before season 7 she could always tell herself that the universe conspired against her and Chris having a relationship. But then she's dealing with the reality of being in a relationship with Chris. And it's not like the fairytale. Perhaps she realizes that she loves him, but not in a way that would make a romantic relationship sustainable? And that's where I actually felt somewhat sorry for Christopher, because IMO that's not true for him. He's in love with adult Lorelai as well, while IMO Lorelai loves Chris and wants to be in love with him.

[lulu1960]

I always took it as she wants to want Chris because it would be so much easier.  She could move on and have the married life. But she doesn't want him she wants Luke. The life with Chris is the one she wants to want. But in reality she wants that life with Luke. She thought kids would be good with Luke yet she is hesitant with Chris. 

[Smad]

5 hours ago, katha said:

I think with Christopher it goes beyond that. She's shown to crave the fantasy of being a family with Rory's father, of having the "perfect fairytale life" her parents are always talking about throughout the years.

Except that this scenario is not true of S7 because Rory was out of the picture. She wasn't part of that fairytale and nothing made that clearer than Rory not even being there when her parents got 'married'. Which is why doing L/C in S7 made even less sense. If it's about the fairytale then this storyline should have happened while Rory was still in highschool and living in the Crap Shack.

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He's in love with adult Lorelai as well, while IMO Lorelai loves Chris and wants to be in love with him.

How can he be in love with adult Lorelai? Before S7 he never really met her, so to speak. After she left the Gilmore house he only saw her maybe once a year, if that, and on those occassions Lorelai tended to regress to her 15 year old self. He literally doesn't know anything about adult Lorelai. Funnily Lorelai seemed to be ok in the first part of S7 when that was the relationship they had. The teenage one where you have fun dates and quip a lot. Once things got into the adult realm, largely brought on by Christopher's own wishes and demands (kids, moving, x-mas traditions, wedding party etc.) it stopped being fun and she started to become SadFace!Lorelai again because of all the compromises she didn't want to make.

The two were on opposite ends of the spectrum in S7. He wanted/demanded things and she blocked him on most things. He wanted to date and then marry, wanted to move, wanted the wedding party (yes Emily's idea more than anyones but he wanted it), wanted another child and wanted his own x-mas traditions. And while she relented to some of these, IMO largely because Chris was her escape after S6, at some point her head was clearer and she put her foot down. There was no room for compromise really.

[shron17]

1 hour ago, Smad said:

How can he be in love with adult Lorelai? Before S7 he never really met her, so to speak. After she left the Gilmore house he only saw her maybe once a year, if that, and on those occassions Lorelai tended to regress to her 15 year old self. He literally doesn't know anything about adult Lorelai. Funnily Lorelai seemed to be ok in the first part of S7 when that was the relationship they had. The teenage one where you have fun dates and quip a lot. Once things got into the adult realm, largely brought on by Christopher's own wishes and demands (kids, moving, x-mas traditions, wedding party etc.) it stopped being fun and she started to become SadFace!Lorelai again because of all the compromises she didn't want to make.

I agree, I don't think Chris ever loved adult Lorelai.  She was his fantasy.  Then again, I don't think he ever learned to love a partner in an adult way since he couldn't make things work with Sherry either.  He only kept going back to the fantasy of being with Lorelai so he didn't have to live in the adult world.  Sure, you could say he tried in season 7, but I think most adults would know better than to sleep with a woman who just broke her engagement and then convince her to marry him 6 months later, apparently without any discussion at all about how she really felt about it all.

I think part of the whole point of season 7 was that Lorelai didn't really know how to be in an adult relationship either.  You could almost say she reacted the same with Chris when forced to compromise as she did with Luke when he had something in his life to focus on besides the Gilmore girls.  

[dustylil]

On ‎2016‎-‎05‎-‎25 at 3:40 PM, cuddlingcrowley said:

I personally thought it was odd that Logan and Rory wouldn't even discuss her spending the summer with him in London.

 I thought it even odder that they could not come up with a better way of being together than her flying to London at Christmas. With all his money, why not have fly her first class or by private jet to Britain once a month or even more often? Why pretend to have the problems of ordinary mortals in a long distance relationship when the means of resolving their difficulties are ready to hand? 

[elang4]

I can't remember what episode it was but I did think it was really sweet when Luke got Liz and TJ back together. :)

[shron17]

This was actually season 6, next to last episode before Partings.  But I really liked it too. 

[cuddlingcrowley]

Season 7 has its flaws, but I feel Emily's speech about being Richard's wife is the speech to end all speeches. Just beautiful. Actually, the writing for Emily in that entire episode is completely on point, imo.

Another scene that stands out to me and feels true to character is Luke finally standing up to Anna.

The whole letter/character reference thing was way too melodramatic for my taste though, And does family court in the US actually works that way? Because I actually clerk for a judge in a family court in the neck of my woods and I was appalled in the US apparently only the lawyers can speak to the judge. How can the judge get a real feel of what kind of people the parents are so to the decide in the best interest of the child? I don't get it.

I find Rory's storylines, if you can call it that, the most innofensive but all around useless for her characterization in the long run. They don't add much, if at all.

Edited May 28, 2016 by cuddlingcrowley

[hippielamb]

I thought it was strange that the judge or court liaison didn't speak to April. Maybe that happened off screen. She was old enough to give her opinion on the matter. I found the whole thing a little off but then I live in another country. 

[cuddlingcrowley]

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I thought it was strange that the judge or court liaison didn't speak to April. Maybe that happened off screen. She was old enough to give her opinion on the matter. I found the whole thing a little off but then I live in another country. 

Same here, and over here if the kid is twelve + they get an imput.

On another note, I'm reaching that part of S7 Logan's business deal turns out to be a bust and he falls back into drinking and risk taking behavior. I don't consider myself a jealous person, but frankly, if I were Rory, I'd be worried whether he hasn't fall back into some other bad habits during all those late nights drinking in Manhattan. 

I'm glad the show didn't even hint to that effect because Rory dealing with Logan cheating on her was bad enough once but in real life someone like Logan would totally feel entitled to blow off steam with random hook-ups because "he works too much". It's the entire culture he grew up on. 

Edited May 28, 2016 by cuddlingcrowley

[cuddlingcrowley]

Even binge-watching S7, Lucy and the other girl are so damn random, in every scene they're in, oh my god.

I don't fault Rory for being fond of them because they were fun and the escape she needed at the time but the foursome Logan/Rory/Paris/Doyle represents Rory's time at Yale for me. Hell, even Finn and Colin will probably be more rememberable to Rory than those girls.

[moonb]

I like season 7 starting with I am a Kayak, Hear Me Roar, when everyone seems more like themselves and the Lorelai/Christopher fantasy marriage is done. Agreed that the season is to showcase Lorelai's and Logan's growth (and to a lesser extent, Lane and Zach's and Emily and Richard's), and Rory is more just there. Once she went back to Yale in season 6, she was really done as a character. Yeah, she turns Logan's proposal down, but that's not so surprising. 

On a really shallow note, I realize Lorelai's had some unflattering outfits throughout the series, but I'm so distracted by her FND dress in Lorelai's First Cotillion. The red dress and wide black belt makes her look like Mrs. Claus. Since this is the ep in which Lorelai rethinks her entire style thanks to Emily's influence, I'm wondering if that's intentional. Or some kind of nod to Bad Santa. 

[lulu1960]

I think I am okay with Season 7 from Knit, People. Knit on. I see the cracks in L/C marriage. Although we are definitely running out of time for a proper reconciliation between L/L since it isn't until 7.15 that it is officially over with Chris.

[hippielamb]

3 hours ago, moonb said:

On a really shallow note, I realize Lorelai's had some unflattering outfits throughout the series, but I'm so distracted by her FND dress in Lorelai's First Cotillion. The red dress and wide black belt makes her look like Mrs. Claus. Since this is the ep in which Lorelai rethinks her entire style thanks to Emily's influence, I'm wondering if that's intentional. Or some kind of nod to Bad Santa. 

Mrs Claus' sister! lol I didn't care for that white dress she wore to the cotillion, it didn't seem very Lorelai to me. I rarely pay attention to fashion but it seemed out of place. 

[twoods]

Is it bad of me that I still laugh that Rory didn't get the fellowship? I'm watching Hay Bale Maze and her being all whatever over the job offer and how she really was expecting to get the fellowship still pisses me off. At least she was finally self aware and admitted that she expected to get it was a first for her.

I still don't like Logan. Love the actor but I didn't like how Rory wasn't Rory around him. I am worried she will end up with him in the revival but will have to deal.

[dustylil]

2 hours ago, twoods said:

Is it bad of me that I still laugh that Rory didn't get the fellowship?

Yes. But you are in good company :) Recognition of her own failures and shortcomings was never Rory's long suit. But given that her grandfather was still telling her - at the ripe old age of twenty-two - that she was perfect, perhaps it was too much to expect. Of course, that  pesky felony conviction  as an obstacle to getting the Reston fellowship at the New York Times and any number of  jobs in journalism seemed to have slipped her mind entirely.

And while editor of the YDN was quite an honour, that NYT fellowship emphasized analysis and feature writing.  Did she have much experience of that? I don't recall. At the very least I would have thought she would have been able to calculate the odds better as to the likelihood of receiving the fellowship in getting up her hopes. How many other editors of highly rated college papers were there who might have applied? How many feature writers? Not saying it wasn't completely understandable that she was disappointed but I thought  she was a distant long shot at best - and should have known it. 

Edited June 7, 2016 by dustylil

[Leonana]

On 5/27/2016 at 1:34 AM, katha said:

I think with Christopher it goes beyond that. She's shown to crave the fantasy of being a family with Rory's father, of having the "perfect fairytale life" her parents are always talking about throughout the years. I think rationally she knows that there are things working against that, but I don't think the ideal ever went out of her head. Before season 7 she could always tell herself that the universe conspired against her and Chris having a relationship. But then she's dealing with the reality of being in a relationship with Chris. And it's not like the fairytale. Perhaps she realizes that she loves him, but not in a way that would make a romantic relationship sustainable? And that's where I actually felt somewhat sorry for Christopher, because IMO that's not true for him. He's in love with adult Lorelai as well, while IMO Lorelai loves Chris and wants to be in love with him.

I kind of agree, but I think it was Christopher's motivation, and not Lorelai's. I believe it is what Rosenthal was trying to convey in S7, because of all the anvils. In the "Great Stink," at the end of the ep the three of them are in the car going home from FND. On the surface, it seems like a sweet scene as they banter about which music to play on the radio. As they finally agree and are smiling and enjoying themselves listening to the music together, like a happy nuclear family, suddenly the horrible stink invades the car and they all grab their noses. My theory is the "stink" was meant to be the dysfunction underneath the L/C relationship, which was based on trying to capture that lost family.

Then in "Go Bulldogs," Lorelai and Chris have that conversation about Chris' guilt over missing Rory's growing up years. After Lorelai reassures him, and everything seems hunky dory again, they walk by the A capella group, singing "Living on a Prayer." That one was a pretty obvious hint, imo.

Of course, in "French Twist," Rory isn't even there for the wedding. Also, I think that's why Lorelai's character letter for Luke really hit Christopher hard, because the relationship was based on them being a happy family again, and he was once more reminded that it was too late. I wonder if the marriage was part of how he tried to assauge his guilt, along with throwing his money around.

From Lorelai's end, I think she just jumped from Luke to Christopher, because she was afraid to be by herself. I don't see that them being a family together again was as important to her, because Rory was grown.

And can I say how much I hated that scene in "Go Bulldogs!" When Chris finally admits he screwed up and wasn't there for Rory, Lorelai gives some completely whacked out reply, that he can help Rory when she has a mid-life crisis. That's one reason why I think Christopher was such a hated character, as Lorelai never made him accountable for what he did. It would have made so much more sense if she had said, yes, but that was in the past, and you're trying now, instead of pretending it never happened.

Edited June 15, 2016 by Leonana

[readster]

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And can I say how much I hated that scene in "Go Bulldogs!" When Chris finally admits he screwed up and wasn't there for Rory, Lorelai gives some completely whacked out reply, that he can help Rory when she has a mid-life crisis. That's one reason why I think Christopher was such a hated character, as Lorelai never made him accountable for what he did. It would have made so much more sense if she had said, yes, but that was in the past, and you're trying now, instead of pretending it never happened.

I agree too and even if Emily and Richard to a point would have admitted it instead of how much they wanted to keep this fantasy of the happy little family alive all these years when really, no one held Christopher accountable for anything. It was always Lorelai's fault and later Straub and Francine put the blame on Rory. When she had no choice it was the classic: "Sorry I was born and ruined your life." It painted the Haydens, especially as Straub as: "Bah... it's all Lorelai's fault. She seduced our son in having sex!" Yeah, because it doesn't take two to make a baby and the fact they were DATING! Because after all, everyone was nice and quant during their days of courting/dating and NEVER was sex ever brought up. 

[hippielamb]

20 hours ago, Leonana said:

And can I say how much I hated that scene in "Go Bulldogs!" When Chris finally admits he screwed up and wasn't there for Rory, Lorelai gives some completely whacked out reply, that he can help Rory when she has a mid-life crisis. That's one reason why I think Christopher was such a hated character, as Lorelai never made him accountable for what he did. It would have made so much more sense if she had said, yes, but that was in the past, and you're trying now, instead of pretending it never happened.

That's more a failing on Lorelai's part if you're bothered by it. Chris has admitted more than once that he wasn't present and Lorelai gives him a pass. I don't have a problem with it, as it seems to dredge up things that are long past and they are now working on their marriage. I think that was what she was referring to. Go forward and whatever problem Rory has in the future, they can tackle it together. It's actually a very mature way to deal with their marriage.

[Leonana]

6 hours ago, hippielamb said:

That's more a failing on Lorelai's part if you're bothered by it. Chris has admitted more than once that he wasn't present and Lorelai gives him a pass. I don't have a problem with it, as it seems to dredge up things that are long past and they are now working on their marriage. I think that was what she was referring to. Go forward and whatever problem Rory has in the future, they can tackle it together. It's actually a very mature way to deal with their marriage.

I agree it was more on Lorelai's part. I also think that is why Christopher is such a hated character for some people, as he seems to get away with everything, while Luke is punished. Although, I suppose S7 eventually changed that.

My guess it's because they never really developed Christopher as a character, and just used him as a plot device for one of Lorelai's relationships, before she eventually ended up with Luke. It would have been more interesting, imo, if they had developed Christopher's character more fully, and had him and Lorelai actually talk about his neglect of Rory for the first 16 years, instead of glossing it over with a joke. As it was, it made her seem co-dependent, imo. I've always been a big Luke fan, but I'm starting to realize that I would have liked Christopher if they had developed his character more.

Edited June 17, 2016 by Leonana

[readster]

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My guess it's because they never really developed Christopher as a character, and just used him as a plot device for one of Lorelai's relationships, before she eventually ended up with Luke. It would have been more interesting, imo, if they had developed Christopher's character more fully, and had him and Lorelai actually talk about his neglect of Rory for the first 16 years, instead of glossing it over with a joke. As it was, it made her seem co-dependent, imo. I've always been a big Luke fan, but I'm starting to realize that I would have liked Christopher if they had developed his character more.

I completely agree, just like how his parents thought his life went to hell because of Lorelai and Rory instead of actually showing that they weren't and even going to the point where we saw some flashbacks of that stuff happening in his life and why Straub and Francine could never see that their little boy really didn't know what to do. Instead of giving him advice or even saying things were his fault, it was constantly: "Its someone else's fault." Same with how Chris had to be used as a plot device with Emily and Richard about the little happy family. Emily kept going down to: "You have good genes and family, so I'll excuse all your other dumbass ideas and past just so my daughter doesn't marry a diner owner." Or Richard's: "I wanted to kill him, but I had a plan and you decided it wasn't good enough." Instead of: "We gave him plenty of oppurtunities and he kept screw them up, if that was how he wanted to do things, then forget him." It was like how many people get a douche father or mother a free pass because: "It's the baby daddy/momma." As the old saying goes: "Anyone can make a baby, but it takes a person putting their kid first to be a parent." Lorelai did that, Chris took over 16 years and even then, he still was bad at it in a very stupid way instead of a: "Well, it wasn't like you tried." 

[FictionLover]

3 hours ago, readster said:

I completely agree, just like how his parents thought his life went to hell because of Lorelai and Rory instead of actually showing that they weren't and even going to the point where we saw some flashbacks of that stuff happening in his life and why Straub and Francine could never see that their little boy really didn't know what to do. Instead of giving him advice or even saying things were his fault, it was constantly: "Its someone else's fault." Same with how Chris had to be used as a plot device with Emily and Richard about the little happy family. Emily kept going down to: "You have good genes and family, so I'll excuse all your other dumbass ideas and past just so my daughter doesn't marry a diner owner." Or Richard's: "I wanted to kill him, but I had a plan and you decided it wasn't good enough." Instead of: "We gave him plenty of oppurtunities and he kept screw them up, if that was how he wanted to do things, then forget him." It was like how many people get a douche father or mother a free pass because: "It's the baby daddy/momma." As the old saying goes: "Anyone can make a baby, but it takes a person putting their kid first to be a parent." Lorelai did that, Chris took over 16 years and even then, he still was bad at it in a very stupid way instead of a: "Well, it wasn't like you tried." 

Like so many say, Chris put Lorelai before Rory.  I believe he loved his daughter but she really was more of an excuse to get closer to Lorelai.

[lulu1960]

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Like so many say, Chris put Lorelai before Rory.  I believe he loved his daughter but she really was more of an excuse to get closer to Lorelai.

When Chris came into money he said, ..."and now I want to take care of you. You and Rory." He mentions Lorelai first.

Also this (in WBB). "We were fourteen. It was after school in the parking lot of the AM/PM. She just walked right up and kissed me. ....It was the greatest day of my life."

[readster]

4 hours ago, lulu1960 said:

When Chris came into money he said, ..."and now I want to take care of you. You and Rory." He mentions Lorelai first.

Also this (in WBB). "We were fourteen. It was after school in the parking lot of the AM/PM. She just walked right up and kissed me. ....It was the greatest day of my life."

Yep, and that was another reason I hated Chris right there. Lorelei kissing him was the greatest day of his life. Not the birth of either of his daughters, not getting his shit together. Lorelei kissing him. Right there I went: "And that's why you are a horrible person. You chose over the fantasy of Lorelei instead of what was best for everyone." He was truly selfish. 

[txhorns79]

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Yep, and that was another reason I hated Chris right there. Lorelei kissing him was the greatest day of his life. Not the birth of either of his daughters, not getting his shit together. Lorelei kissing him. Right there I went: "And that's why you are a horrible person.

I don't know if I would go that far.  For Chris, the most important relationship in his life was Lorelai.  That was his priority.  It doesn't make him a good parent, and he failed Rory in many ways.  I don't think that makes him a horrible person.  There are parents who are actively malevolent to their children, and do things to destroy their children's lives.  Those are horrible people.  I view Chris as a mostly benign presence.  He's there, but he isn't there.    

[hippielamb]

22 hours ago, Leonana said:

I agree it was more on Lorelai's part. I also think that is why Christopher is such a hated character for some people, as he seems to get away with everything, while Luke is punished. Although, I suppose S7 eventually changed that.

I take my cues from Lorelai concerning Christopher. There doesn't seem to be any bitterness or resentment there. When she is upset with him, it's always about their relationship not about Rory. Lorelai tends to let things go without even requiring an apology. There have been a few times when Luke, Emily, and even Rory have done things that I consider offensive and would have words with that person, but Lorelai just shrugs it off. It makes me angry at those characters at times but also Lorelai allows it, so I should be mad at her too.

8 hours ago, lulu1960 said:

When Chris came into money he said, ..."and now I want to take care of you. You and Rory." He mentions Lorelai first.

Also this (in WBB). "We were fourteen. It was after school in the parking lot of the AM/PM. She just walked right up and kissed me. ....It was the greatest day of my life."

I think that is because he thinks of the girls as a package deal. He doesn't know how to have a relationship with Rory without Lorelai being part of it. Chris says something revealing after he and Lorelai are squabbling about Rory's room in season 7. He says something like, we're married now, I'm her father. It's like he didn't think he could be a fatherly presence in Rory's life unless he was married to her mother. 

There was a writer a few years ago who stated she loved her husband more than her children and people were very upset with her. Lorelai will always be Christopher's priority in a similar way. He loves Rory but I think he sees her as an appendage to Lorelai. 

[Smad]

5 hours ago, hippielamb said:

I think that is because he thinks of the girls as a package deal. He doesn't know how to have a relationship with Rory without Lorelai being part of it. Chris says something revealing after he and Lorelai are squabbling about Rory's room in season 7. He says something like, we're married now, I'm her father. It's like he didn't think he could be a fatherly presence in Rory's life unless he was married to her mother.

A package deal implies equality right? Which means he should have been treating both Lorelai and Rory equally since they are a package. I view it more as that he knows that the way to Lorelai is through Rory. And he often used Rory as a stepping stone to get to Lorelai (or Sherry). In S7 he didn't marry 'the package' since he didn't even think Rory had to be there when her parents got married. Also I don't buy the excuse that he couldn't be a fatherly presence in his daughter's life unless he was married to the mother. He was married to Sherry when they had GiGi and we were told that he hadn't been a fatherly presence at all in her life when he called on Lorelai to rescue him because he didn't even know how to change a diaper.

[junienmomo]

15 hours ago, FictionLover said:

Like so many say, Chris put Lorelai before Rory.  I believe he loved his daughter but she really was more of an excuse to get closer to Lorelai.

Ironic, ain't it? For all of the many, many times the Palladinos made mind-numbingly dumb continuity errors, they succeeded at that one consistently.

Sometimes I wish Sutcliffe had been a better actor and would have been permanently sucked away. Then the writers would have been forced to think of something else. Like letting Luke and Lorelai deal with being married, because, trust me, Lorelai's fear of abandonment/commitment/emotional issues wouldn't have gone away with a wedding ring.

[Eeksquire]

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I take my cues from Lorelai concerning Christopher. There doesn't seem to be any bitterness or resentment there. When she is upset with him, it's always about their relationship not about Rory. Lorelai tends to let things go without even requiring an apology.

Hmm.  That's interesting, because I take my cues from Rory concerning Christopher.  Throughout the entire series, she seems to have a much more clear-eyed view of him and how he is and what's realistic in dealing with him than Lorelai ever does - after the disastrous reunion that ended with Sherry's pregnancy, she repeatedly worries about her mother getting sucked back into a relationship with Christopher, even going so far as to tell Christopher to leave Lorelai alone.  The fact that he immediately disregarded her wishes - even when Lorelai was with Luke speaks for itself, to me.

In the end, Christopher has the gall to be surprised that Rory wasn't just thrilled that Chris and Lorelai got married - like, of course she's not happy.  If he had a shred of self-awareness about his relationship with his daughter and all the myriad times and ways he's failed both her and her mother over the years, he couldn't possibly be surprised.

[txhorns79]

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she repeatedly worries about her mother getting sucked back into a relationship with Christopher, even going so far as to tell Christopher to leave Lorelai alone.  The fact that he immediately disregarded her wishes - even when Lorelai was with Luke speaks for itself, to me.

I'd say two things.  1) Lorelai is a grown woman and 2) It's not Rory's place to decide who Lorelai is allowed to have in her life.  I also think Christopher did initially try to stay away from Lorelai, but it was Lorelai who re-initiated contact.  However, I might be misremembering the sequence of events.     

Edited June 18, 2016 by txhorns79

[Smad]

41 minutes ago, txhorns79 said:

1) Lorelai is a grown woman 

Uhm...are we absolutely sure about that? I mean she comes in a grown woman's package but I don't know.

[shron17]

2 hours ago, txhorns79 said:

I'd say two things.  1) Lorelai is a grown woman and 2) It's not Rory's place to decide who Lorelai is allowed to have in her life.  I also think Christopher did initially try to stay away from Lorelai, but it was Lorelai who re-initiated contact.  However, I might be misremembering the sequence of events.     

You're right, of course, that it's not Rory's decision to make but I felt like eloping with him was a betrayal to her all the same. The way Chris thought Rory would be happy, wasn't concerned that she wasn't there, and then insisted they tell her together felt like he was demanding rights he hadn't earned.  If he and Rory had developed a closer relationship over the years she would've felt comfortable telling them both how she really felt.  I'm actually surprised the marriage and subsequent divorce didn't cause more problems between Lorelai and Rory. 

You are right that Lorelai re-initiated contact after Rory asked her dad to stay away. But the way Christopher handled the whole situation was stupid, beginning with the fact that he avoided Lorelai without telling her why.  After he did agree, maybe a better approach would have been to make some excuse to Lorelai when she called and then let Rory know he wanted to respect her feelings but maybe they all needed to talk about it.

Edited June 18, 2016 by shron17

[Eeksquire]

Oh, I don't think Rory gets to make decisions on behalf of her mother, I just think her view of Christopher is more realistic than Lorelei's - not just because of Christopher's actions, but how the fallout is ultimately going to impact the rest of Lorelei's life that Lorelai is either unwilling or incapable of acknowledging.  In particular, how Luke is going to react.  There's a lot to be said for that being Lorelai and Luke's communication issues, but Lorelai has communication issues with just about everyone BUT Rory, so it might make sense for her to take her opinion (especially when it comes to her own father) more seriously.

[txhorns79]

Quote

You are right that Lorelai re-initiated contact after Rory asked her dad to stay away. But the way Christopher handled the whole situation was stupid, beginning with the fact that he avoided Lorelai without telling her why.  After he did agree, maybe a better approach would have been to make some excuse to Lorelai when she called and then let Rory know he wanted to respect her feelings but maybe they all needed to talk about it.

I think my biggest issue with Rory's request was that it spoke volumes about how little she thought of her mother. 

[shron17]

13 hours ago, txhorns79 said:

I think my biggest issue with Rory's request was that it spoke volumes about how little she thought of her mother. 

True enough, although that's a pretty common attitude for someone of that age to have about a parent.  I think Rory was reacting to the fact that Chris was single again given the past history she had seen between them.  What seems odd to me is that Lorelai didn't even think it was important to mention to Luke when she got a call from her ex/co-parent to ask for help because his wife left.  Rory did at least assume Lorelai told Luke, so maybe she had the right idea all along.

[Smad]

1 hour ago, shron17 said:

What seems odd to me is that Lorelai didn't even think it was important to mention to Luke when she got a call from her ex/co-parent to ask for help because his wife left.  Rory did at least assume Lorelai told Luke, so maybe she had the right idea all along.

This is why the S7 retcon of Luke's motives in S6 make no sense to me. He does to a certain degree compartmentalize but Lorelai is the biggest compartmentalizer on this show. She has a thousand different worlds in her head that she never thinks should cross or meet. She has a Rory world, an Emily world, a Luke world, a Chris world and so forth. And she keeps them all neatly seperate, hence it wouldn't occur to her to mention to Luke that she was seeing Chris.

[txhorns79]

Quote

This is why the S7 retcon of Luke's motives in S6 make no sense to me. He does to a certain degree compartmentalize but Lorelai is the biggest compartmentalizer on this show. She has a thousand different worlds in her head that she never thinks should cross or meet. She has a Rory world, an Emily world, a Luke world, a Chris world and so forth. And she keeps them all neatly separate, hence it wouldn't occur to her to mention to Luke that she was seeing Chris.

I kind of love this.  Lorelai really does her have "worlds," and does try like heck to make sure none of them collide.  I also love the idea that what happens in one "world" is treated as separate from another "world."  It makes me think Lorelai is probably a serial killer in at least one of these worlds she created for herself, along with probably having a few secret families scattered throughout the other "worlds." 

[shron17]

2 hours ago, Smad said:

This is why the S7 retcon of Luke's motives in S6 make no sense to me. He does to a certain degree compartmentalize but Lorelai is the biggest compartmentalizer on this show. She has a thousand different worlds in her head that she never thinks should cross or meet. She has a Rory world, an Emily world, a Luke world, a Chris world and so forth. And she keeps them all neatly seperate, hence it wouldn't occur to her to mention to Luke that she was seeing Chris.

This makes some of Lorelai's decisions make a lot more sense.  When she couldn't get married soon enough in one world, she decided to try a different one and soon found out what happens when you attempt to compartmentalize your whole life.  And Luke took all the blame just because he wanted a little time to get to know his daughter on his own, and wanted to talk about it before running off to elope.  It also explains why we rarely saw Rory with Luke and Lorelai, even after they were dating and/or engaged.

[Smad]

2 hours ago, txhorns79 said:

I kind of love this.  Lorelai really does her have "worlds," and does try like heck to make sure none of them collide.  I also love the idea that what happens in one "world" is treated as separate from another "world."  It makes me think Lorelai is probably a serial killer in at least one of these worlds she created for herself, along with probably having a few secret families scattered throughout the other "worlds." 

It's even spelled out by other characters on this show. Sookie at one point says 'oh not this Emily world stuff again'. And Emily equally complains about being left out of the loop with 'you keep so much from me with all this other world stuff'. I'm only paraphrasing here of course but Lorelai's compartmentalization is an art form. Because she does it to the utmost extreme. She has a neat world set up for each person in her life and who else does/doesn't belong in there with her and that person. I wouldn't put it as extreme as you because that would imply Lorelai has DID.

49 minutes ago, shron17 said:

This makes some of Lorelai's decisions make a lot more sense.  When she couldn't get married soon enough in one world, she decided to try a different one and soon found out what happens when you attempt to compartmentalize your whole life.  And Luke took all the blame just because he wanted a little time to get to know his daughter on his own, and wanted to talk about it before running off to elope.  It also explains why we rarely saw Rory with Luke and Lorelai, even after they were dating and/or engaged.

I don't even think Luke knows how to compartmentalize. Which is why that S7 comment was so off to me. Luke was set in his ways from decades of being alone and he has massive pride. So he wants to do things his way without input. But that's not compartmentalizing. It's just that he's not very flexible and able to go with the flow. What you mentioned with L/L and Rory not being a part of it also happens with L/C. Rory isn't a part of L/C even when she's in a scene with them. Which makes the whole wishfullfillment of the nuclear family even more nonsensical. Because Rory is not part of her Chris world and it shows.

Edited June 19, 2016 by Smad

[hippielamb]

On 6/18/2016 at 3:40 AM, Smad said:

A package deal implies equality right? Which means he should have been treating both Lorelai and Rory equally since they are a package. I view it more as that he knows that the way to Lorelai is through Rory. And he often used Rory as a stepping stone to get to Lorelai (or Sherry). In S7 he didn't marry 'the package' since he didn't even think Rory had to be there when her parents got married. Also I don't buy the excuse that he couldn't be a fatherly presence in his daughter's life unless he was married to the mother. He was married to Sherry when they had GiGi and we were told that he hadn't been a fatherly presence at all in her life when he called on Lorelai to rescue him because he didn't even know how to change a diaper.

I don't know if it implies equality. I do think Chris is an all or nothing kind of guy. If he can't be in a relationship with Lorelai, Rory is the one who gets shorted. It is true that he didn't think of Rory when they got married but afterwards we saw him try to do dad type things.

I think Chris acted like Richard and probably his own father when he was married to Sherry. He worked and travelled a lot, provided for them financially but was a non-presence in their home.

On 6/18/2016 at 2:28 PM, Eeksquire said:

Hmm.  That's interesting, because I take my cues from Rory concerning Christopher.  Throughout the entire series, she seems to have a much more clear-eyed view of him and how he is and what's realistic in dealing with him than Lorelai ever does - after the disastrous reunion that ended with Sherry's pregnancy, she repeatedly worries about her mother getting sucked back into a relationship with Christopher, even going so far as to tell Christopher to leave Lorelai alone.  The fact that he immediately disregarded her wishes - even when Lorelai was with Luke speaks for itself, to me.

In the end, Christopher has the gall to be surprised that Rory wasn't just thrilled that Chris and Lorelai got married - like, of course she's not happy.  If he had a shred of self-awareness about his relationship with his daughter and all the myriad times and ways he's failed both her and her mother over the years, he couldn't possibly be surprised.

I guess that depends on how you see Christopher: as Rory's dad or as Lorelai's on again/off again ex. I always seem him in relation to Lorelai. She's the one he has the connection with and I believe most of his scenes on the show are with her. 

I agree that Rory has an accurate view of her parents relationship. I think that was why she was so angry with Lorelai after she found out they slept together at the end of season 6. Her relationship with her dad is finally in a good place. She knows if her parents break up again, Chris will most likely drift out of her life again. I like that we see him showing up for Rory at her graduation and at the Gilmores party after the divorce.

I have to defend Chris a little on being surprised that Rory wasn't over the moon about the wedding in France. Rory told him back in season 2 that she and Lorelai had been waiting a long time for them to be together, so I can see how he would think she would be thrilled. 

 

7 hours ago, shron17 said:

This makes some of Lorelai's decisions make a lot more sense.  When she couldn't get married soon enough in one world, she decided to try a different one and soon found out what happens when you attempt to compartmentalize your whole life.  And Luke took all the blame just because he wanted a little time to get to know his daughter on his own, and wanted to talk about it before running off to elope.  It also explains why we rarely saw Rory with Luke and Lorelai, even after they were dating and/or engaged.

I like this theory. :) I always liked that Lorelai kept her dating life away from Rory. Even as Rory grew up, we didn't see many instances of her interacting with Lorelai and whomever she was dating. I think for many years, that was Lorelai's mindset: keep the dating life away from her Stars Hollow/Rory life, so it just became the norm for her. 

[Smad]

Maybe it's just me but with ASP gone from this Season I would have liked the new showrunners to skip the L/C thing and instead send Lorelai to therapy. ASP seemed to have a hate for shrinks but IMO I would have prefered seeing Lorelai in therapy when she hit rock buttom after sleeping with Chris. The woman had made too much of a mess of her life to believably get out of that hole by herself IMO. They could have still used DS (because of his A story contract) screetime and split it between Lorelai and Rory.

[Readalot]

So my only rewatch was a Season 7 binge that I just ended. I have to say 1) why is Rory so special that she gets a townie grad/farewell party? I'm sure there are 100's if not 1000's of kids her age in Stars Hallow. 2) I never thought it during the original run but Rory is a low key spoiled brat. 3) I hope they both matured and Logan and Rory are married. 4) a long shot but I hope Chris snd Lorilai are back together forever. I didn't feel the Luke love this rewatch like I saw in the original run.  That's it. I can't wait until November. My sis and I are going to binge watch all the episodes. 

[chessiegal]

I really didn't like Season 7 - it was just "off". The rhythm of the 1st six seasons wasn't there - it was like watching something in slow motion. It's the only season where I've only seen an episode once.  I do rewatch the later episodes after Chris is gone - hated that whole story line. 

[readster]

Season 7 is just so off and the main reason is Christopher. The entire ending of Luke and Lorelai, then getting together with Chris, the "illegal" marriage. Him not being able to handle family issues like with Richard's heart attack and then when he finally realizes it was time to let go of the stupid "perfect" family that he, Emily and Richard had for so many years. It just makes you shrug your shoulders and are happy he is gone. Then you have pod-Marty that was just thrown in because the actor was free. However, at the end, I do like the send off, but way too much still left between Lorelai and Emily when they could have ignored the entire marrying Christopher and focused on them more. Don't get me started on Kirk and Taylor, they had reached knew levels of morons. 

[elang4]

I still love the fact that Luke got Rory a graduation present. It was just so Luke! :) And also seeing him grow in confidence with April was sweet. I must be in the minority but I liked April and her growing bond with Luke. :)