S05.E08: Reassortment

[CoderLady]

I hope not. Fridging is a cheap and overused trick used for shock value in action movies. And knowing that the fate of the whole damn human race is at stake, it would be way out of character if Finch can finally be induced to do something stupid over the loss of one person.

[StarBrand]

Ah, yes, I've heard of that phrase before-the names given to various tropes are rather amusing...

[TigerLynx]

At one time, there were hints that before Finch "fake died" when Nathan died, that previous to that, there still weren't any records on Finch until he began college, and became friends with Nathan.  There was also an episode where one of the numbers had assumed several other people's identities and lives.  When Finch was talking to this person, the guy realized Finch wasn't who he said he was either, and ME immediately took on a new persona during the conversation (very effective and scary).  I think originally there was going to be more to Finch's past than just Nathan, Grace and creating the machine.

I hope Fusco and Elias continue to work together.  I'm tired of Finch and Reese's condescending, "We aren't telling you for your own good," nonsense.

I'm not surprised there are people dumb enough to sign on for Samaritan's picking and choosing who lives and who dies plan.  History is filled with people who were perfectly okay with mass genocide so long as it was other people being killed.  It never seems to dawn on them that they could be expendable to.

[Camera One]

At this point, it's just annoying that Finch and John are choosing to keep Lionel in the dark.  His actions in this episode clearly showed he wasn't going to stop, and who cares if he knows about the dueling machines?  It might make Lionel realize how much danger he's putting his son into.  On top of that, Finch refusing to listen to Elias or Root (who suggested changing a factor) is not enjoyable to watch.  We only have a few episodes left.

Seeing Shaw escape was awesome, and I'm glad she stuck it to Lambert.  That was satisfying.

Injecting live human flu virus into someone with avian flu doesn't immediately create a mutant recombined virus.  That was just ridiculous.  And way to get people more afraid of vaccinations.

I wish they didn't have to say that nurse got permanent kidney damage.  Oh well, at least there weren't any gratuitous innocents dying in this one.  Wouldn't Samaritan continue to try to kill the nurse and doctor for investigating the computer system?  

I'm disappointed in that ex-painter.  That was pretty low to go.

Edited May 29, 2016 by Camera One

[Netfoot]

16 hours ago, Camera One said:

I'm disappointed in that ex-painter.  That was pretty low to go.

I do see that he's been essentially backed slowly into a corner over this.  And now that he's shown some reluctance to do the dirty, they're threatening him with a 100% sewn-up frame-job.  I'm hoping that he turns out to be the Joker in the pack that causes Samaritan's downfall.  

[wilnil]

On ‎5‎/‎25‎/‎2016 at 1:13 PM, Trey said:

I didn't like Finch's rant about free will.  I thought having free will was the best thing about being human even if it doesn't always turn out right.  Eh, Max?

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Immortalfrieza said:
I am now convinced Finch is insane after all the overwhelming evidence he has been shown that if he doesn't do something and soon, Team Machine will lose and lose badly.

I thought that rant was really out of character -- Finch has always been all about free will, with his hacker-style, live-and-let live ethic.

But in RL, when people act way out of character, it usually means they're so worked up about something that their "internal logic," so to speak, goes out the window.

I think Finch is starting to get terrified by the implications of what's to come when Team Machine goes on the offensive. He knows that has to happen -- and he knows it's a terrible long shot. It seems a lot of the bad decisions he's been making this season have been based on reluctance to make that switch and putting it off as long as he can.

I wonder if Shaw's big contribution to the team once she makes it back to NYC will be to tell Finch to lead or get out of the way: Help the Machine get what it needs, read Fusco in so he can make his own decision whether to stand with them, and then do something to at least stop Samaritan from tightening its grip.

What I fear is that what really gets Harold off his ass will be the death of one of the team. He's not a violent person, and he's always preferred to evade and outwit danger than to confront it -- except when something strikes at what he cares about most, like Nathan (whose death spurred him to target Alicia Corwin) and Grace ("If they harm her in any way -- kill them all."). Then all bets are off. I think that's what Elias sees in him.

[StarBrand]

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I wonder if Shaw's big contribution to the team once she makes it back to NYC will be to tell Finch to lead or get out of the way: Help the Machine get what it needs, read Fusco in so he can make his own decision whether to stand with them, and then do something to at least stop Samaritan from tightening its grip.

I think that too. Shaw would insist on going on the offensive, especially after what she's gone though, not to mention be pissed off with how they are keeping Fusco in the dark.

More Fusco-Shaw interaction. Nobody's really talked a lot about that, but it's one of the pleasures of the show we haven't had in a while..

[jhlipton]

On 5/25/2016 at 10:13 AM, Trey said:

They didn't show us anything about how Fusco and Bear got out - I wish they had but I guess they don't have to show us everything.  Seeing them in the hospital was enough - looked like Bear wasn't injured at all. And I think Fusco just reported the bodies to the team, not the police but I don't know positively.

There's really nothing to tell the police.  "There are a dozen bodies buried under tons of rubble in that ex-tunnel.  I know because I saw them just before a chunk of concrete landed on my head."  Um, yeah, we'll get back to you on that.

[mtlchick]

Finally catching up and what a whirlwind of a week!  

Good episode, but it's very maddening that after all this time, they still have told Fusco NOTHING and he has to speak to a former enemy to get something that he was looking for.  I mean, he took a syringe and could have died.  And yet...nada.  COME ON show.  

 

I will admit; I was in and out on this show for a bit especially after they killed off Carter which I was really unprepared for.  So there are some things I'll have to rewatch to really get (like the doll Fusco threw out.)  But after  the call that CBS was ending it, I had to come back as it was truly one of the original shows on broadcast TV.  I'm glad that the end game has been outstanding so far.

 

5 episodes left.  Make it count, Team Machine. 

[Agent Dark]

On 27/05/2016 at 10:15 PM, MYOS said:

I don't think Samaritan wants to create a Master Race in the usual sense. Samaritan sees humans as either irrelevant or obstacles to be eliminated. Samaritan would thus want a race without obstacles, only irrelevans that can be turned into assets and irrelevants that won't become obstacles.

I don't think its even really about a 'Master Race' at all.  In "A More Perfect Union" Samaritan straight up told Shaw at the end of her field trip that "The Great Filter lies ahead of us, that we will destroy each other".  Asset 295 (Jeff Blackwell's handler) told Blackwell that whole reason for the viral outbreak was to help prepare for The Great Filter, by allowing Samaritan to database people's DNA so it can sort for genetic markers, and protect us from our "own savage past".  In a co-incidence, Max Greene (the Mysterious Transmissions radio host from "QSO") directly asks Root her thoughts on the Fermi Paradox.

 

I think that Samaritan is trying to prepare Humanity for the next step of our evolution.  The Fermi Paradox basically postulates "The universe is so vast, and other Earth-like planets are statistically almost certain to number in the millions.  Why then have we not encountered any other signs of intelligent life?"  One of the responses to that question is the concept of "The Great Filter" - that every, or almost every, life-form eventually reaches a point in evolution that nothing can move past, and it dies out.  This leads to some possible answers to the Fermi Paradox, two of which are:

1) The Great Filter is behind us - Humanity has managed, by some sort of evolutionary 'miracle', already passed The Great Filter whilst everyone else has died out.  We are alone in the universe and that is why we haven't discovered any other intelligent life-forms.

2) The Great Filter lies ahead of us - our destruction, just like for every other life-form in the universe, is all but inevitable.  That is why we haven't discovered any other intelligent life; everything dies out before it can evolve to the point where contact with other life-forms is possible.

 

Samaritan would seem to think the latter, and it would appear to be trying to do everything it can to push us past The Great Filter and into the next stage of our evolution.  It's pretty high concept stuff, and for the show to be delving into that kind of discussion is awesomely amazing in my opinion :) 

[wilnil]

1 hour ago, mtlchick said:

 So there are some things I'll have to rewatch to really get (like the doll Fusco threw out.)

Oh, that goes back a long time -- in Season 1, not long after John got Fusco transferred to Carter's precinct to help keep an eye on her "Man in the Suit" investigation, Harold built a camera into a policeman bobblehead doll, mailed it to Fusco at the precinct, and asked him to keep it pointed at Carter's desk. Since then, Harold has never stopped spying through it, as Fusco keeps realizing to his discomfort.

[elle]

17 hours ago, jhlipton said:

There's really nothing to tell the police.  "There are a dozen bodies buried under tons of rubble in that ex-tunnel.  I know because I saw them just before a chunk of concrete landed on my head."  Um, yeah, we'll get back to you on that.

Yabut, Fusco not only saw the inspector and Bruce, but he did also identify at least one of the missing persons.  It would make sense for him to report finding the bodies, if only to give the families some closure on the status of their loved ones.  The "how" and "why" of their deaths would still be open for now.  (those writers better tie up this loose end!)

[Gigi43]

19 hours ago, StarBrand said:

I think that too. Shaw would insist on going on the offensive, especially after what she's gone though, not to mention be pissed off with how they are keeping Fusco in the dark.

More Fusco-Shaw interaction. Nobody's really talked a lot about that, but it's one of the pleasures of the show we haven't had in a while..

 

Since Fusco seems to have been kept out of the simulations, I'm kinda hoping we'll get Shaw a bit uncertain if things are real or a simulation, but then seeing Fusco will be the big clincher it's all real.

 

I need to re-watch the explanation of Fusco getting out of the explosion. Is it possible when he was recovered the tunnel was investigated and evidence of the bodies found? That's the one thing I don't like with back-to-back episodes sometimes I go on information overload and some things get lost/mixed up.

Edited May 29, 2016 by Gigi43

[MYOS]

it's possible hey had to cut the part where Fusco is escavated from the tunnel etc, due to 1° short season and 2°final season

[kili]

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I need to re-watch the explanation of Fusco getting out of the explosion. Is it possible when he was recovered the tunnel was investigated and evidence of the bodies found?

Fusco said in "QSO" that the tunnel was too unstable to gather evidence. He was in the hospital and not an engineer, so I'm guessing somebody from the police department told him that (he was talking to Root). So, unless he told the police about the bodies, they might not know. Perhaps the police just think an old subway tunnel collapsed, but they probably want to ask Fusco what he was doing in there.

When the handler was telling the new recruit about how he was immune to the strain of flu that was in the hospital, I thought he might end up being a Typhoid Mary. Just because people can't get sick with a virus doesn't mean they cannot spread it. 

So many of Samaritan's agents are happy to do the job because they think they are the chosen ones. They are chosen, but some of them are chosen because they are easily manipulated. That guy who destroyed the vials was happy to do it because Samaritan has told him he is right and he is doing good. The new recruit looks less pleased and he's going to turn. I'm surprised that Samaritan is putting up with so reluctant an ally when there are lots of people who seem thrilled to work for her.

[Kendall]

4 minutes ago, kili said:

So many of Samaritan's agents are happy to do the job because they think they are the chosen ones. They are chosen, but some of them are chosen because they are easily manipulated. That guy who destroyed the vials was happy to do it because Samaritan has told him he is right and he is doing good. The new recruit looks less pleased and he's going to turn. I'm surprised that Samaritan is putting up with so reluctant an ally when there are lots of people who seem thrilled to work for her.

Reluctance would only matter in the beginning. They have him where they want now, so his second thoughts mean nothing. Now, she may want to ease up on telling him so much, but even then, he sees that they can make him look like anything they want him to look like.

[kili]

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Reluctance would only matter in the beginning. They have him where they want now, so his second thoughts mean nothing. Now, she may want to ease up on telling him so much, but even then, he sees that they can make him look like anything they want him to look like.

Samaritan needs to listen to some of Michael Weston's advice on Burn Notice. Blackmailing somebody to do something will only take you so far. It's a gun with only one bullet. Once you shoot it, you have no influence.

This guy already appears to have figured out that his boss will keep blackmailing him to do jobs and one day he's going to be expendable. He can keep doing what the boss wants and eventually get killed/sent back to jail, or he can just get it over with sooner. Or he can work to overthrow the people that are blackmailing him. You put too much pressure on somebody and they are going to crack.

New recruit seems to realize that something seriously messed up is going on. Meanwhile, the acolytes are joyfully doing their assigned tasks, no questions asked. While New Recruit is questioning orders and needing to be blackmailed to do his job, Database Dude is gleefully smashing the only possible cure the hospital has - a cure to a disease which he has been exposed to. Lambert and Greer are fully bought into Samaritan's goals and are happy to do what it takes to reach the new world order. Those are the kind of people Samaritan should be targeting - not the dude who looks green when he finds out about everybody getting DNA tested so that some quasi-government agency can filter out the undeserving.

Samaritan's mistake will be in not understanding free will and why people make decisions that are not necessarily either for the greater good or even their own good. People's reactions can be predicted to a certain probability, but its those percentages when people zig the other way which will do her in.

[immortalfrieza]

On 5/26/2016 at 10:31 AM, MrWhyt said:

I suspect the fast pace of this season is because they only got 13 and it is their last. In a standard 22 episode season a slower pace is unavoidable.

22 episodes could be just as fast paced as these 13, it's just a matter of putting in the effort for reducing or eliminating all the pointless details we don't need to see, like how Fusco got out of that tunnel. However, the writers of this show are either too anal about details or just padding time with crap that has little to nothing to do with the actual storyline in order to stretch 13 episodes worth of storylines into 22 episodes, or both. For instance, the moment this Samaritan storyline started Team Machine should have spent a bare minimum of time on the irrelevant numbers as one or 2 episodes for the entire season if that and spent their entire time focusing on undermining Samaritan in every way they could and gaining resources for the ultimate battle, but mostly they just screwed around with the irrelevant numbers while Samaritan came online, steam rolled right over them all but completely effortlessly, and gained massive amounts of resources instead, and all the while they made no real attempt to gain resources that could even remotely be considered comparable to Samaritan's.

[Cranberry]

Unfortunately, you can blame CBS for that. All along, even in this shortened season when they had to tie up the entire huge Samaritan story line, CBS still made the POI writers insert "number of the week" episodes.

But just because the writers decided to take matters into their own hands didn’t mean they ran amok. CBS had always wanted the show to keep its case-of-the-week spine rather than chucking it and making it a pure mythology show. Going into Season 5, “there was a conversation about the amount of stand-alone versus serialized storytelling that, somewhat to my surprise, remained something of importance to them,” Nolan said. “And to the degree that there are compromises in this final season, it’s in that area. I wish we’d had a few more episodes to continue telling the bigger story. But I’m very, very proud of what we did.”

[Camera One]

Numbers of the week could still get the team and The Machine gradually but progressively closer to the strength of Samaritan.  It's a little discouraging that Samaritan has been winning big since the whole storyline started, while The Machine is crippling along and almost died.  Even now, it still feels like David and Goliath.

[Driad]

David vs. Goliath may not have been as one-sided a battle as we have heard.

David and Goliath by Malcolm Gladwell

Let's hope the Machine has more surprises up her virtual sleeve.

[stealinghome]

I actually feel like the numbers often HAVE been useful against Samaritan.

[HawaiiTVGuy]

On 5/25/2016 at 1:41 PM, stealinghome said:

I suspect that Shaw will be back in NYC by the next episode. Just no time for us to spend a whole episode on her journey back. Though I agree that that could have been hilarious--I imagine them doing it Fusco in Prisoner's Dilemma style, like every time we cut to Shaw she's in some new exotic locale facing some ridiculous new problem!

It also sounds like Samaritan might try to cull people strategically, and starvation is a good way of killing lots of people without making it look like you're killing them. Her work gets in the way of being able to starve people.

I'm usually the one piling on Finch, but I do kind of understand what he was getting at here. The Machine was basically agreeing with Root that Max's death was worth a) keeping Root and Reese away from danger and b) getting a message to Shaw. The Machine's not wrong, but making that kind of calculation is something Finch never wanted it to do, so I can understand why he was really upset in that moment.

If Finch was thinking that way then I would disagree that was what was going on.  The primary mission of Root and Reese was to save Max.  And they did it initially, it was Max's own choice to go back into the fray.  It had nothing to do with the Machine choosing to keep Root and Reese safe and sacrifice Max.  And getting the message to Shaw had nothing to do with Max's eventual decision that resulted in his demise.  Stating that the primary mission was accomplished in response to the accusation that the Machine didn't care about Max may have come off as callous but it isn't the Machine's job to have its conscience weighed down by unsuccessful saves, it has to move on, and the Primary mission was accomplished as well as initially saving Max.  What Max wanted to do after really was not in the Machine's control.

I think that the painter is going to end up on Team Machine.  He already has had contact with two members in separate scenarios, and so he knows there is a competing group out there, and right now he feels like he is beyond redemption due to his belief he killed the two people (Fusco and the doctor, it was never confirmed on the news they were showing one way or another right)  that once he knows they are alive, he will turn on Samaritan.  At least that is my hope.

[HawaiiTVGuy]

On 5/30/2016 at 4:18 PM, stealinghome said:

I actually feel like the numbers often HAVE been useful against Samaritan.

Yeah, especially recently, they have somehow been connected to the battle with Samaritan.  The Machine has already evolved to that point, selecting which Numbers are "relevant" enough for Team Machine to act on.