S11.E23: Alpha And Omega

[Binns]

9 minutes ago, ZennyKenny said:

More thoughts:

That talk with Amara and the old lady... THAT'S what I've been waiting for all season. For Amara to have a meaningful interaction with another human. Thank you.

I'm honestly a little disappointed that no one went to the Empty. I wanted to see it. And I wanted it to be more than an 'empty' threat.

What was with the looks between Crowley & Billie? Are they crushing on each other or am I not remembering a previous interaction from them?

I was kinda hoping that the sun effect would have been... well, better. Like similar to the black hole sun thingie on the trailer title card.

Well, it might not be an empty threat...neither boy has died yet to see. 

[Mulva]

14 hours ago, ZennyKenny said:

Ok the more I think about it, the more irritated I am with that ending. That British chick just broke into the lair, banished Cas, and revealed that she traveled from another country to track down the Winchesters. And Sam antagonizes her by saying that she's not going to shoot him, while walking towards her? Really? That was just a stupid move to pull a cliffhanger out of their ass.

I think Sam deliberately provoked her because he doesn't want to live without Dean.

 

Geez, Chuck, you couldn't have zapped Dean home?

[catrox14]

2 hours ago, Binns said:

I also liked that Dean was able to come say goodbye (or so he thought) to Mary when in 2.04 (Children Shouldn't Play with Dead Things) he was pretty dismissive of the gravesite. 

I never thought Dean was dismissive. He straight up wanted nothing to do with it. It's a valid choice for Dean IMO considering Mary wasn't even buried in there because there were no remains to be buried. He never wanted to go back to Lawrence in Home. He never wanted to see Mary's tombstone again.

Hell, I'm not even sure why he went this time other than to set up the Mary reveal. I would have really appreciated seeing the moment that Dean for the 2nd time since Mary's death decided that he needed to go to her headstone or too show his reaction when he did see it.  But you know we had to make sure we got that all important scene of the WoL getting off her private jet and getting into an SUV. Fuck I kind of really hate this character because of how she was so shoehorned into the episode. GRRR.

[catrox14]

Just now, Mulva said:

I think Sam deliberately provoked her because he doesn't want to live without Dean.

 

Geez, Chuck, you couldn't have zapped Dean home?

Oh wow, I never got that impression at all. I didn't think he felt threatened by her at all. He was pissed that she was in his  home and he  thought he could take her. I mean he did just recently  survive being shot in the gut, fighting off two werewolves and making his way to a hospital in time to save Dean and kill the werewolf that was killing Dean, so maybe he was a little hubrisy vs suicidal.

15 minutes ago, Binns said:

was kinda hoping that the sun effect would have been... well, better. Like similar to the black hole sun thingie on the trailer title card.

I thought for sure we were going to get that. Sigh. And then drop the needle on "Black Hole Sun". That would have been awesome.

[ZennyKenny]

3 minutes ago, catrox14 said:

I thought for sure we were going to get that. Sigh. And then drop the needle on "Black Hole Sun". That would have been awesome

Oh hell yeah.

11 minutes ago, Mulva said:

I think Sam deliberately provoked her because he doesn't want to live without Dean.

If that was the case, then it should have went something like this:

SAM: "Listen, Lady, I just got back from stopping yet another apocalypse. And in the process, I lost my brother. Again. Except this time it's for good, thanks to a reaper named Billie. I've lost the one person keeping me going on this literally godforsaken planet. So if you're going to shoot me, then shoot me."

TONI: "Fine." BANG.

[sarthaz]

57 minutes ago, trxr4kids said:

I'm not even sure wtf this was. It felt like Charmed meets one of those movies where everybody is courageously dying or tragically grieving with commercials for an old BBC show scrunched together with muzak playing in the background. Somebody needs to join CGI-anonymous.

Wow. I had the same thought. Partway through the episode, I actually said, "Ugh, this feels like an episode of Charmed."

[catrox14]

33 minutes ago, trxr4kids said:

I'm not even sure wtf this was. It felt like Charmed meets one of those movies where everybody is courageously dying or tragically grieving with commercials for an old BBC show scrunched together with muzak playing in the background. Somebody needs to join CGI-anonymous.

 

Right?

They literally only needed to have Lady Killy McWoman of Letters in the scene with Sam at the end. That's it. They literally wasted 10 minutes in total on her introduction. 10 minutes out of 42. That's too much for a finale and it was interjected where it ruined the flow of the episode.

Man. If they would have left all that out until the end and let the scenes with the core group breathe for 5 freaking minutes this would have been far better.

[AwesomO4000]

3 hours ago, Aeryn13 said:

I`m happy that there was no bait and switch and I did like that Amara got a happy ending but also not happy it was somewhat anticlimactic. I`m just not and never will be a fan of Yellow Crayon scenes. Was there any way to get the same result for Chuck and Amara without using that construct? I don`t know. Was there a way to execute it better? I most certainly believe so. 

So, in the end, it wasn`t quite the big active BDH moment I have always wished for when it comes to Dean since it wasn`t as flashy and in your face and thus still can be easily ignored or belittled. But they did make an effort to have him be the one who technically saved God and the entire universe. Even if it was just through talking. Sigh. It`s difficult for me to pin down how that all really makes me feel. Probably gonna need a pie chart for it.

I've been thinking about this, and I've decided - or fanwanked, depending on your view - that Dean being the soul bomb was necessary. For one thing it's the only way I can give Sam even a minuscule part of the save here since he was a part of the planning and soul gathering (okay yeah I'm reaching), and for another, I thought about all of the other times Dean and Amara talked and Dean tried to influence her and/or talk her out of what she was planning, and I tried to think of what was different this time. Yes, Chuck was dying, but that was also the case when she struck him down, and she was still bent on destroying his universe while he died when she left the bunker.

So, I think one of the reasons why Amara was willing to listen to Dean this time was that Dean was carrying that bomb. To expand on my illustration from earlier - the training wheels were off. Time to ride the bike or take the chance that the bike might blow up in your face (okay so the comparison isn't perfect ; ) ) Now Dean had some real firepower, and Amara couldn't entirely be certain he wouldn't use it. So now it was more of a negotiation between, if not equals, at least two beings on the same playing field.

As Lilith told Sam once, if you want to negotiate, you've got to have something to bargain with. That bomb Dean was carrying was something to bargain with. Now Amara had to listen to other less violent options - no more manipulating the outcome to exactly how she wanted it - because now she, too, could potentially be a victim of her violent actions. And Dean made the most of that chance he now had and the connection they shared to talk Amara down and save the world.

I probably could've said that with a lot less words, but well, yeah, it's me here, and I was on a roll.

[Wynne88]

I'm just amazed at how easy it is for everybody to get into this super secret, super secure bunker.  Sigils appear to be worthless, even before Amara burned them off.   And I thought there was one special key.  Maybe every MoL lair uses the same one?  

The gang going to the gravesite didn't make any sense to me either except for laying in another reference to their mother so her appearance didn't come straight out of the blue.  They've never been sentimental about it - as someone up thread said, Mary isn't even buried there.  

I just really wish they could have started weaving in some of these threads earlier instead of dumping them all on this last episode.  And while I'm wishing, I'm aggravated that there wasn't a small scene of the guys asking God questions about some of the issues that were more personal, like 'Where the heck is our brother, Adam?'.  After everything they've been through in service of God and angels, I think they're entitled to a few answers.

[NoWillToResist]

6 minutes ago, Wynne88 said:

 And while I'm wishing, I'm aggravated that there wasn't a small scene of the guys asking God questions about some of the issues that were more personal, like 'Where the heck is our brother, Adam?'.  After everything they've been through in service of God and angels, I think they're entitled to a few answers.

I'm still trying to comprehend the complete lack of interaction between Cas and his absentee father. Like, really? Faithful Cas who spent an entire season looking for daddy dearest, then gave up and lost his faith in God, then later proclaimed himself a new and better God after consuming all the purgatory souls....he finally gets to see the old man and....? They have nothing to say to each other?

[MYFAKETVBOYFRIEND]

2 hours ago, catrox14 said:

I've got a terrible feeling that Amara reset EVERYTHING by Mary not being dead. Maybe that's why we saw the boys life up on her stalker wall. That their lives have been completely changed now and we are left with that nod to their entire past. I REALLY WANT TO BE WRONG. Because that will piss me off more than I can say

OMG don't even say that out loud!  No No and No!

I can't even imagine what they are doing with Mary. What is the point of her return? I just don't get what they have n their heads.

[catrox14]

1 minute ago, NoWillToResist said:

I'm still trying to comprehend the complete lack of interaction between Cas and his absentee father. Like, really? Faithful Cas who spent an entire season looking for daddy dearest, then gave up and lost his faith in God, then later proclaimed himself a new and better God after consuming all the purgatory souls....he finally gets to see the old man and....? They have nothing to say to each other?

I felt like Cas was freezing God out in a way. That maybe after everything that's happened; that maybe God doesn't meet Cas' expectation; that God would let Dean die and let Dean suffer because of the mess God made with Amara and the Mark. Maybe Cas was like.".Nah brah. You're a waste of my time right now. I see that these boys "My Winchesters" are better than you. I'll catch you later, Pops."

Like I truly do think Cas didn't have anything to say to him anymore. That's my head canon anyway.

[catrox14]

4 minutes ago, MYFAKETVBOYFRIEND said:

OMG don't even say that out loud!  No No and No!

I can't even imagine what they are doing with Mary. What is the point of her return? I just don't get what they have n their heads.

The only thing that works for me is that this is a minor arc. That Dean gets some kind of closure on Mary's death, which I actually thought he had all this time...And that John is the problem for Dean because of how John raised Dean and treated Dean too much of the time. 

I dunno but I feel like Amara fucked up by doing this.

[Ferniesfreckles]

And I thought there was one special key.  Maybe every MoL lair uses the same one?  

 

I thought I saw the same key box in Lady Toni's bag that Henry gave to the boys. 

[NoWillToResist]

9 minutes ago, catrox14 said:

The only thing that works for me is that this is a minor arc. That Dean gets some kind of closure on Mary's death, which I actually thought he had all this time...And that John is the problem for Dean because of how John raised Dean and treated Dean too much of the time. 

I dunno but I feel like Amara fucked up by doing this.

You mean someone did something with good intentions but it will blow up somehow? On this show? Nah! ;)

I must admit I can't help but think that whatever the deal is with Mary will be of short duration. So many season finale cliffhangers are resolved very, very quickly into the new season (see: Dean's in hell, Dean's outta hell; Sam's in the pit, Sam's outta the pit; Dean and Cas are in Purgatory, they're outta Purgatory; Dean's a demon, Dean's not a demon anymore...) Only the big bads seem to stick around (Leviathan, Darkness...) so unless Mary came back wrong, I don't see her sticking around...

I agree that Dean doesn't really need to hash things out with Mary; she's been his big loss but she's not, IMO, why he's as fucked up as he is. That, IMO, is all on the way John raised him to be a soldier and make his world revolve around Sam. I'd like John to be brought back just so that Dean could punch him a couple of times. You know, therapy-like. ;)  Based on Jensen's comments at a recent con, I think he'd approve.... :D

Edited May 26, 2016 by NoWillToResist

[Omegamom]

Oh, Crowley and Billie must have a thing going on.  Crowley smiled for her!  And it was a real smile, not a smirk!

[Omegamom]

There are some good thinky thoughts about Mary over on the Fandomnatural thread about the episode.

[ZennyKenny]

1 hour ago, catrox14 said:

I felt like Cas was freezing God out in a way. That maybe after everything that's happened; that maybe God doesn't meet Cas' expectation; that God would let Dean die and let Dean suffer because of the mess God made with Amara and the Mark. Maybe Cas was like.".Nah brah. You're a waste of my time right now. I see that these boys "My Winchesters" are better than you. I'll catch you later, Pops."

Like I truly do think Cas didn't have anything to say to him anymore. That's my head canon anyway.

Love this theory. Tbh, I bet the writers just didn't think about it and were to busy focusing on resolving season 11 and setting up season 12 to worry about God & Cas' interaction. Hate to be so negative, but I just don't place that much faith in the writers anymore. Or, to be fair, maybe they thought it would be redundant after having Metatron, Dean and Lucifer roasting God and the audience would get bored if they had a fourth person confront him with their disappointment in him.

But I would prefer that your theory was true, so I'm gonna go ahead and use it for my head canon as well. It makes me wonder if Cas was busy watching tv as usual while Lucifer was in control, or if he was in the backseat watching Chuck the entire time.

[Ria]

I think this finale was one of the stupidest things I've ever watched. They bring God in just to make him weak, stupid and useless. The almighty Darkness just wants to be loved. She and God go off hand in hand to spend quality time together and all is well. WTF?

Terrible introduction to the new character. At first I thought she was going to have some intriguing  way to help. Nope. Just a Men of Letter's bounty hunter. 

At least I don't have to spend the summer wondering what happens next. Sam's not dead and Dean's talking to Mary. 

[smree]

I enjoyed this episode but it didn't seem like a season finale. Could be an interesting set up for next year though. The editing and some of the music choices for the episode were off and it felt like some scenes were cut in the wrong place.

[catrox14]

Jensen said this was one of the most collaborative episodes they've ever done. He said that he, Jared, Misha and Mark ALL had phone calls with the showrunners and writers about story points etc. Given that  Peter Roth emailed Jensen about the episode and praised all their hard work, I can't help but wonder if the first drafts were even worse and this is what they could salvage.

[DittyDotDot]

Hey, remember last week when I asked you guys about a little show where a couple guys traveled around the country shooting ghosts in the face with salt-filled shotguns...sigh...yeah, I know...

Other than the ghostbustin', solid "meh" from me. Didn't even get a tab bit teary-eyed from this one.

Oh, count me in with the folks who believe Dean (and Mary) are not on the earthly plane.Not sure if they're in the Empty, but I'm doubtful she's in Heaven or Hell. And, I'll go out on a limb here and say Sam will be just fine. It's almost like they went out of their way to leave them in the same place they were at the end of S7. Let's just hope they make better of it than they did in S8.

Edited May 26, 2016 by DittyDotDot

[trxr4kids]

52 minutes ago, catrox14 said:

Jensen said this was one of the most collaborative episodes they've ever done. He said that he, Jared, Misha and Mark ALL had phone calls with the showrunners and writers about story points etc. Given that  Peter Roth emailed Jensen about the episode and praised all their hard work, I can't help but wonder if the first drafts were even worse and this is what they could salvage.

*shudders* I don't even want to imagine the horror.
 

[La Tortuga]

The performances where great. I thought it was funny that finally somebody said, "Fucking Winchesters, I've had enough of their world-ending shit." But somehow, the episode as a whole left me feeling short-changed.

[catrox14]

2 minutes ago, La Tortuga said:

The performances where great. I thought it was funny that finally somebody said, "Fucking Winchesters, I've had enough of their world-ending shit." But somehow, the episode as a whole left me feeling short-changed.

You know, had that come from anyone other than the asshat Men of Letters they might have an argument. But as @trxr4kids so sagely pointed out in the Bitterness thread, she blamed them for shit they literally had no control over. Stupid time to get involved NOW LadyGoFuckHerself (tm @trxr4kids).

7 minutes ago, trxr4kids said:

*shudders* I don't even want to imagine the horror.
 

I hate to think their collaboration made it worse!

[catrox14]

Codspammit, Jensen. He's so damn good. I love that this moment carried through and I love that Dean was always full of shit about chick flick moments.

[RulerofallIsurvey]

Just a few observations/thoughts before I go read the way more profound comments:

• British bitch better not have killed Sam.  I'm thinking a warning shot across the bow, so to speak.  At most a leg shot.  If she wounded him, of course it means he's going to fall for her.  
• Way to retcon.  Thought all the MOL/WOL got killed off?  And why the hell did they wait until NOW to do something?  Uh, all those other apocalypses didn't mean anything?  And if they've been watching the Winchesters all this time, no one thought - MAYBE - they could use some help/training?  Shit heads.  
• Ah, Dean gave Amara what she needed most: her brother.  So she gave him what he needed most: his mommy.  But how did The Darkness (Nothingness) have the power/ability to bring someone back from the dead?

Hm.

[call me ishmael]

Okay, so as expected they did go the Babylon 5 route (two powerful forces fighting for millennia come to realize that they have no good reason to fight but are afraid to be alone) and it had the same emotional resonance as when B5 did it--not much.  But then to introduce Lady Lady as if she could be the equivalent Big Bad as the end of the universe is pretty silly.  It would have been far better to have the boys have to figure out what to do with Heaven closed and nature ruling (except for the Demons) and maybe they could have tried to bring back Death.

Did anyone notice which of the graves that Dean went and touched?  I like the idea that Amara might have sent Dean in-between in order to get closure.  After all, her whole lesson was about moving on and maybe that is the chance she gave to Dean.  It isn't so much about getting over a screwed up childhood than moving on.

Of course now we are moving on to Lady Lady and the stupid british MOL who of course are all upper class and look down on hunters.  I suppose if they wanted to have Amara move the boys back in time to discover that Downton Abbey was really the secret headquarters of the MOL that would have been one thing. But this is silly.

[catrox14]

Just now, call me ishmael said:

Did anyone notice which of the graves that Dean went and touched?  

I don't remember that scene. When did it happen?

[MYFAKETVBOYFRIEND]

3 minutes ago, call me ishmael said:

Did anyone notice which of the graves that Dean went and touched?

I thought it was Marys?

[catrox14]

4 minutes ago, MYFAKETVBOYFRIEND said:

I thought it was Marys?

It was Mary's grave but I didn't think he touched any of the headstones. Sam gave it a finger kiss. But That's all I remember.

[call me ishmael]

5 minutes ago, MYFAKETVBOYFRIEND said:

I thought it was Marys?

That is what I thought.  I wonder if that is why Amara decided that Dean needed Mary.

Catrox, it was when they were in the cemetery before Dean went off to blow Amara up. 

Was it Sam???  I thought it was Dean.  Okay sorry my mistake.

[Wynne88]

Was there ever any sort of explanation of why Amara was an adult when Dean first met her, then went thru all the stages of growing up?  I never did understand that.  I will say that when they showed the sequence of the actresses who played her during the intro, I was fairly impressed by the similarities.

[catrox14]

I think this is my favorite work from Jared in this episode. I love Jared's WTF and befuddled faces in comedic moments but I LOVE Sam's dawning realization that this is not going the way he expected. This was Sam's WTF and not liking this AT ALL. 

Edited May 27, 2016 by catrox14

[MysteryGuest]

Watched the episode again, and it didn't fare much better.  I still think the writers simply got in over their heads by turning the Darkness, which could have been something really sinister and frightening, into God's pissed off sister.  That was giant mistake number one, which then led to giant mistake number two...turning Chuck into God.  As we said numerous times, where do you go once God shows up?  Ending it the way they did is really the only thing they could do, and at least now we can dispense with that whole storyline.  The only loose thread is Lucifer, and I for one hope he gets added to the long list of loose threads they have no intention of ever revisiting.

Mary Winchester's return?  I don't see how that plays out well.  I don't believe that Dean was zapped to where Mary was, I think she was brought back, but why?  Yes, she was a hunter, but is she really going to ride around in the Impala with the boys while they go on hunts?  I certainly hope not.  But if that's not their plan, then why bother bringing her back?  If she's actually alive now, they're not just going to buy her a nice little house and never see her.  It's just stupid, IMO.

Lady Toni...I hate her name already.  I do like the idea of the MOL having a bone to pick with the Winchesters, so that could be an interesting theme for next season, but as was pointed out in this thread, they've now saved God and his sister, so the MOL don't seem so cool anymore.  Just a weird thought about her child, and the possibility that he's Dean's.  When we saw the pictures of Sam and Dean in her office, there were far more pictures of Dean than Sam.  And when Sam told her that Dean was dead, her facial expression changed and she seemed visibly upset.  That could also be an interesting turn of events, but I don't really see the show going there.

Now I know what Jensen meant about the fans being forgiving.  He obviously had these last few episodes in mind, and is hoping we'll be able to get past them and still tune in next season.  I just hope the writers have learned their lesson from this season and will not overreach their skill level.

[Wynne88]

At the risk of being a chauvinist, I would have preferred that the British MoL had sent someone who would have been a reasonable match physically against Sam or Dean.  The female villains they've had in the past all had supernatural strength (I think) so it was possible to sort of squint and accept they could beat up the guys.  It's going to bug me if some dame in ridiculous high heels takes Sam down even if she does have a gun.

[MysteryGuest]

That whole scene was ridiculous.  She's been sent by her higher-ups to single-handedly bring in the Winchesters, while the world is coming to an end, and all Sam has to do is walk toward her and she shoots him??  If she's their best operative, they're in serious trouble.

[KirkB]

I can kind of understand the MoL coming after the Winchesters for...reasons, but what I don't get is the timing. It was the end of the world. From the dialogue I got the sense they knew that. So why did they decide THAT was the moment to come after Sam and Dean? I mean, say she got to the US really fast and caught or killed them, so what? Creation was about to end. They would have barely had a chance to crow about ending the Winchesters before everything winked out of existence. Unless, maybe, they somehow thought he Winchesters were responsible (which they were, to come think of it) and that getting rid of them would fix the problem. Which, given the fact Dean was the only one who could get through to Amara, wasn't going to work.

I agree with everyone who said they wasted way too much precious screen time on the LoL. She should have just shown up as a mysterious figure at the end of the episode and we could find out about her next season. Though while I don't know what they're planning to do, I don't see how any story line following this one can be anything but a letdown. You CAN'T follow God, you just can't.

[MysteryGuest]

As far as I'm concerned, they don't need to even try to top the God arc.  I'll happily pretend it didn't happen if they promise to go back to basics with the storyline.  More of Sam and Dean working together, more meaningful scenes for Castiel and Crowley...and even Rowena, tighter scripts.  If season 12 is to be the last one, I want the show to go out on a high note.  And if this new batch of writers is actually able to come up with an interesting story arc, then there's no reason that season 12 needs to be the end, if they don't want it to be.  But it absolutely has to get better.

[millennium]

On 5/25/2016 at 10:24 PM, catrox14 said:

Amara. You tried, but you got it wrong. Dean's childhood is not going to be fixed because Mary is alive now. Unless Mary being alive resets their lives in some way, what's the point of it.

Maybe it  wasn't Amara.   Maybe it was Barry Allen.

Rowena: "That was a gun in your pocket!"  

Love you, Rowena, but lose the blue dress.   Not working for you.

[catrox14]

20 minutes ago, millennium said:

Maybe it  wasn't Amara.   Maybe it was Barry Allen.

LOL I literally had the same thought. I mean for all the stupid shit the Winchesters have done, they have never actually done what Barry did. Hell they were willing to never have been born to stop the Apocalypse.  Barry, Barry, Barry  SMDH.

[SueB]

Got to re-watch it again.  I love watching without commercials.  It just flows so much better.  I get the anti-climatic feel because there's no "boom", but because I love all the character stuff, I REALLY liked the resolution to this season.  So, here's my re-watch thoughts (jump to bottom for the TL;DR):

Plot: I liked the sun dying, the rest of the world recognizing some shit was going down but the general populace eating up the scientific denial.  I personally believe Amara's been getting to the point of a turn-around all season so that didn't surprise me.  I liked the "soul bomb" Plan B - very consistent with the shows' canon.  I think the ONLY resolution was to either kill off both God & Amara or have then decide family was more important than their pain.  Gee... what a surprise that "Supernatural" went with the message of "family" (/sarcasm).  Seriously, I think it was a consistent solution.  What was missing: God had his dramatic moment LAST episode, but I think he needed to give more to Amara in this finale. Specifically, I think he needed to say, again, how much he hated the 'locking away' solution and how he wished he had figured out a better way than that.  That he was impatient and in fact these creations taught him plenty over the years. And he just wants to be her brother again.  I think the peace between them was cut short.  I realize it's more Yellow Crayon stuff, but I think that would have helped (and acknowledged Chuck's/God's mistakes). What didn't work: S12 Lady Toni setup.  I get why they hit most of the beats they hit, but it was distracting. 

Character:  This was a doozey! And I loved so much of what we got. Starting small and going bigger...

Lady Toni: Old school, single Mom, long-time Winchester stalker. It seemed like she had made the Winchester's her mission prior to this. At least she questioned the timing of the order.  I fully expect next season to be her representing the the "chronicle don't engage" POV from the Supernatural version of the Watcher's Council (Buffy Shout Out!). Unless the audience demands her head, she'll end up a Winchester ally before S12 is over IMO.  Otherwise they wouldn't have shown her motivation (child). There was too much "CW" feel to her character. I would have liked her better in sensible shoes.

Billie: Okay... what was up with that look with Crowley?  I can't even. And yet, I want to see it again.  All I know is that I love this Reaper. She's just the epitome of "cool". End of the world? Here's 200,000 souls... do your thing...I'm outta here.  No muss, no fuss. Love her.

Rowena: Sucking up to God. Because it's in her nature.  Not wrong about the tea though.  A good cuppa solves most issues.  I thought they used her talents well. I like how Ruth played her pretty straight-forward. I'm actually hoping she and Crowley eventually reconcile. (Hey, this is my personality... I don't expect anyone else to have even a smidgeon of sympathy for her.)

Crowley: Didn't have much to do but I liked the little touches. Rejecting the whiskey that was sitting out and finding the "good stuff".  Offering it to Moose. Telling God he wasn't going to call him "Dad". Having the classic reaction to his Mom attempting to get a new boyfriend. The oh-so-naughty suggestion about the soul bomb being able to fit up Dean's backside. Smiling at Billie. And my favorite: "Bingo." Of COURSE Crowley had already figured out that killing Amara was going to be the only solution. He knew what Plan B was three steps before everyone else but didn't see a solution to make it happen.  I like smart Crowley.  Even if he didn't have a way to implement Plan B.

Cas: This was not a big Cas episode but "I could go with you." was about ALL I needed to hear from Cas.  How could one little sentence convey so MUCH.  And it did. Oh my heart.  And of course if Dean says 'No, take care of Sam.' then that is precisely what Cas is going to do.  That's his new mission. Because Dean said so.  Again, my heart.  I so freakin' love that dweeby little angel.  And I'm really glad that Dean affirmed his loyalty and bravery in that car ride.  Cas was so down on himself all year. Dean told him exactly what he needed -- "You're our brother Cas and I want you to know that'.  And it was said in a way that... IDK... it just felt like a permanent declaration of status. And Cas getting a little teary eyed at that moment? I was so glad he recognized that Dean was putting a claim on him. I actually think this will matter in S12 (see future thoughts).    

Chuck: I was a little disappointed Chuck didn't acknowledge how much he had screwed up (see Plot discussion).  But I loved how Rob B. portrayed God really shaken up and in "wise" mode.  And I'm glad the camera panned to him when it was acknowledge Dean was going to die killing Amara.  That hurt, and Rob sold it.  

Amara: I really liked her this episode. I think we've been building to this turn around all season.  Her constant "softening" when around Dean.  It was in that connection/desire to be near Dean opened her eyes up more to God's creations.  And then when she was in the garden, did you notice that the flowers she touched DIED?  Two boxes of red geraniums.  It's why she wouldn't take the bird seed.  The guilt of ending all this creation really started to weigh down on her.  She was READY to hear Dean's speech.  He really didn't have to sell hard because seeing those flowers, listening to the older lady... she had gotten her revenge and now her eyes were completely open to the consequences.  I thought Emily did a great job of showing how uncomfortable that realization was making her feel.  All her fire had gone out and she was rolling in the guilt. Even when the Dean bomb showed up, she barely could scratch up some bitterness.  But of course Dean could get through to her.  She's just one in a long CHAIN of characters who listened to Dean and had an epiphany.  I liked the way she kind of looked at Dean as she started to talk to God.  Like she wanted his support in that moment.  I think they set this up all year and it was a good payoff.

Sam: Oy. Did Jared make me cry.  First, I love that when Dean's ready to pop a cold one and wait for the end, there's Sam STILL WITH HOPE.  It's like his defining characteristic.  He even sassed God a bit (which is a lot for Sam!). Again, perfect character continuity with past seasons.  Annoying everyone who wants to wallow and laying on the pressure to get them into getting off their asses. You go Sam.  Getting impatient and intentionally pissing off ghosts. But then when it's clear that Dean is going to die (as catrox showed in pictures above), his face.  It says so much. It says "of course, Dean has to die." For all his hope, Sam feels like this is fitting punishment for him (Sam) that he loses his brother to save the universe.  But it was this moment:

when I started crying the most.  Damn Jared.  Wanting to "nope" out of taking the keys.  As if Dean would let him. Such a powerful scene.  And he was just DONE when Lady Toni showed up.  I don't think he wanted to die, but he was not ready to deal with her issue. So, I bought him pushing her in that moment.

Dean: All the emotions. Relief at Cas being back. Saying the exact right things to Cas and making sure he did it right away when he got a moment in private with Cas.  Delight that his little salt trap worked. The way he and Sam practically swaggered into and out of that sanatorium was gratifying.  Then the look on his face when Rowena said he WAS the bomb.  "Figures" is what went through my mind.  No muss, no fuss. Of course he would have to be the one to kill Amara.  He doesn't even want her dead.  That he is going to die in the process -- well, gotta go sometime.  And his STRENGTH in that cemetery. Everyone is all feeling like shit and he starts providing Dean-perfect funeral instructions.  Sam was right, he IS the leader of that team. Even if he doesn't have any supernatural powers. With the exception of Rowena (who may actually be softening a bit to him after this), all were reeling as Dean prepared to make this sacrifice. And then the look of peace he got about the cemetery being his permanent resting place.  Really sold it.  I do wish his speech to Amara had been just slightly more impassioned. But as I said above... she really didn't need much pushing.  I did like his look when God told him the world was in good hands: HIS.  And Sam's. Dean's not so sure but... seriously Dean, God just left you the planet to take care of.  If that's not a sign of confidence in your abilities, I don't know what is.  And I think Dean was totally cool with Amara and God going off for a family meeting.  So, I think there's a little closure for him regarding his God feels.  In the end God DID step up to try to take out Amara and although he failed, he proved something to Dean when it was clear he really didn't want Amara to die but accepted it to protect the universe.  I think that showed God was "all in" when it came to taking care of his creations and that's really what Dean wanted from him.  So... I liked that this came out.  Finally, of course, we get "Mom?"  FEELS. I'm just giddy with anticipation. So.. again, an outstanding Jensen performance.  

Bits & Bobs:

- I got a feeling that the Waverly Sanitorium was like a ghost "holy grail" that the boys had talked about but never tackled before.  Rowena's stone gave them the tool to do the job. It felt like "Christmas for the Winchesters."
- The lighting with the sun was sufficiently creepy. Made you feel like something global was going on.  Well done Serge!
- I like that they incorporated some of the "Baby" camera work into the Dean/Cas scene. The angles felt very up close and personal and Jensen was clearly driving the car for that shot (just like in "Baby").

Future Thoughts:
- No phone signal, nighttime, and Mary in her nightgown. I'm not sure WHERE or WHEN Dean is.  I think this is more of a cliffhanger than just "Mary is alive."  I do think Amara picked up on the notion (just from that ONE picture in his room) that Mary is the one who took care of Dean's heart. She was Dean's caretaker. And although Sam loves Dean and looks out for him, Dean has not had someone like Mary in his life since she died. I DO think it will backfire but I'm looking forward to seeing what happens. Maybe there will be some healing for Dean.  
- I'm good with the Worldwide MoL challenge to the Winchesters.  Of course they're stuffed shirts (see Deadpool opening credits - "a British villain") who treat hunters like mouth breathers.  I think S12 will be about Sam and Dean shedding their guilt and claiming their right to be MoL in whatever fashion they see fit.  I think the stuffed shirts (let's just call them the SS for short... because it works ...) think Sam and Dean are a version of Cuthbert Sinclair.  Using the Supernatural (on their own judgement) rather than just documenting it. And Cas will be their co-defendant and champion. I'm down with that. So, it'll be Sisko retaking Deep Space Nine, Dumbledore's Army reclaiming Hogwarts, or Buffy telling the Watcher's council to eat shit.  I think it'll be good drama that continues Sam and Dean down a path where they own their past mistakes but don't let it stop them from continuing to fight the good fight.  

 

TL;DR: While I appreciate that it was somewhat anti-climatic, I thought the finale was actually the right way to end the God/Amara conflict. More importantly (to me) the character development/moments in this episode were very satisfying. I'm good with the two plots they've set up for next year although I think we need to de-CW Lady Toni and the story insertion was jarring.  At the end of the day, the performance and character development make this an episode I'll re-watch many times.  

Edited May 27, 2016 by SueB
Random errors in grammar, spelling and how the hell did I confuse Amara and Rowena???

[millennium]

1 hour ago, catrox14 said:

LOL I literally had the same thought. I mean for all the stupid shit the Winchesters have done, they have never actually done what Barry did. Hell they were willing to never have been born to stop the Apocalypse.  Barry, Barry, Barry  SMDH.

 

My name is Barry Allen and I am the fastest man alive. To the outside world, I am a fictional superhero whose mother was killed when I was a child.  But secretly -- and without the help of my friends in S.T.A.R. Labs -- I fight this superhero meme and find other motherless heroes like myself.  I hunted down the man who killed my mother (although I stopped him and changed the timeline so technically he didn't kill her at all) and in doing so, I opened up myself to all kinds of criticism.   I am the only one fast enough to resurrect all dead mothers in all CW shows.   I am The Flash.

Edited May 27, 2016 by millennium

[ZennyKenny]

Minor note: When I was looking at the SPN Bingo card, I thought to myself, "hey, it's got Dean's signature "single man tear", but it's missing Sam's signature saying "Look, I get it" to Dean. Cos that's totally at thing. So I couldn't help but smirk when Chuck said it to Sam.

[mertensia]

I really liked it. 

I liked that, in the end, talking to Amara as if she was a, you know, sentient being with emotions worked. That Amara listened to pigeon feeding woman. That the season ended, as did season 5, with love and family winning out.

But lord, please let them put poor Samantha Smith in something besides that nightgown.

[mertensia]

The actress is older and there is only so much they can do.

Frankly I liked the switch-up that there was no huge fight or soul bomb going off. That Dean accepted that h e had to die to set off the soul bomb. That Sam accepted that too. 

[MysteryGuest]

If Mary is real and not just another ghost or hallucination, I'm sure they'll come up with some way to explain why she's aged since her death.  We don't really know where she's been all this time, since Ash couldn't find her in heaven, so maybe there'll be an explanation there.  I'm going to hope that it will just be an episode of closure for Dean with his mother, and that she's not going to become a recurring character.  Nothing against Samantha Smith, but I don't see how she fits in with the show anymore, and selfishly, I don't want the dynamic to change.

6 hours ago, SueB said:

I love watching without commercials.  It just flows so much better.

This is the first season that I have watched a good number of the episodes live, and I do think it's part of the reason I haven't enjoyed some episodes as much.  All of those commercials are jarring, and it makes the episode feel chopped up and poorly edited, far more than when you stream with no interruptions.  Maybe next season I'll go back to waiting until the following night to watch, like I used to do.  

[Demented Daisy]

After a couple of days' reflection, I've decided I liked it.  It wasn't heart-stopping -- hell, it wasn't particularly exciting, but at least the Winchesters didn't put the world in jeopardy again, you know what I mean?

If you've read the Spoilers and Spec thread, you'll know that I've seen a lot of Harry Potter parallels.  Well, I saw another, but I'll tag it so people don't have to read it if they don't want to.  :-)

Spoiler

In the final battle of Hogwarts between Harry and Voldemort, they have a nice, long chat.  Harry explains to Voldemort everything V never understood about love.  Unsurprisingly, Voldemort still doesn't understand and just wants to kill Harry one last time.  Harry knows what will happen, but gives Voldemort a last chance to make it all better.  He tells Voldemort to reach down deep and try for a little remorse.  Voldemort refuses, attacks Harry, Harry defends, Voldemort dies.  (It's much more complicated than that, but I'm paraphrasing.)

In this case, Dean tries to get Amara to understand love, too.  The difference is that it actually works for Dean when it didn't for Harry.  But that makes sense because Voldemort's death didn't have world-ending consequences, only good.  Not so with Amara, you know?  

I was so wrapped up in Harry walking into the forest when I should have been thinking of the final duel.  Silly me.

[SueB]

1 hour ago, Demented Daisy said:

After a couple of days' reflection, I've decided I liked it.  It wasn't heart-stopping -- hell, it wasn't particularly exciting, but at least the Winchesters didn't put the world in jeopardy again, you know what I mean?

If you've read the Spoilers and Spec thread, you'll know that I've seen a lot of Harry Potter parallels.  Well, I saw another, but I'll tag it so people don't have to read it if they don't want to.  :-)

  Reveal hidden contents

In the final battle of Hogwarts between Harry and Voldemort, they have a nice, long chat.  Harry explains to Voldemort everything V never understood about love.  Unsurprisingly, Voldemort still doesn't understand and just wants to kill Harry one last time.  Harry knows what will happen, but gives Voldemort a last chance to make it all better.  He tells Voldemort to reach down deep and try for a little remorse.  Voldemort refuses, attacks Harry, Harry defends, Voldemort dies.  (It's much more complicated than that, but I'm paraphrasing.)

In this case, Dean tries to get Amara to understand love, too.  The difference is that it actually works for Dean when it didn't for Harry.  But that makes sense because Voldemort's death didn't have world-ending consequences, only good.  Not so with Amara, you know?  

I was so wrapped up in Harry walking into the forest when I should have been thinking of the final duel.  Silly me.

I'm on board with the analogy.

[NoWillToResist]

9 hours ago, SueB said:

t Mary is the one who took care of Dean's heart. She was Dean's caretaker. And although Sam loves Dean and looks out for him, Dean has not had someone like Mary in his life since she died.

Excuse you, SueB, but I believe there's a certain "dweeby little angel" who is a contender. ;)

Cas is, IMO, entirely devoted to Dean's happiness and well-being.

Whether it's a shoulder to "cry" on, an ear to listen, a mouth to give support/encouragement/affirmation, a hand holding a blade to assist in battle, an arm to give/receive comfort and/or welcome, a body to throw onto the sacrificial pile, or a companion for all eternity...everything Cas has, he willingly gives to/for Dean. Cas's home, fellow angels, hell even Cas' own life, are all willingly thrown aside by Cas for Dean. 

I see Cas's attitude/behaviour towards Dean as just all encompassing, completely unconditional love. *sniff*  ;)

Edited May 27, 2016 by NoWillToResist