Flip Or Flop - General Discussion

[iMonrey]

I also thought it was odd that the fireplace itself was off-center. That would bug me if that were my house.

[SRTouch]

Does anyone watch Masters of Flip?  I couldn't find a forum for it, so maybe it's only on in Canada?  But it's set in Tennessee, so I wouldn't have thought so.  Anyway, it's a similar concept to Flip or Flop but they admit to much higher reno budgets (often six figures) and Kortney is much more open to using colour and keeping character than Christina while Dave seems much more knowledgeable about construction than Tarek.

Just watched an episode. Don't know if there's going to be new episodes, as both episodes I see on the tv guide were filmed in 2015. I like what I see, just from seeing one episode, and I have DVR set to record episode next week.

[Peanutbuttercup]

Yeah my assumption with the open houses has been that they are for Tarek & Christina's fans and possibly for the neighbors -- they get a little thank you (chance to see the house/meet D-list "celebrities/be on tv) as recompense for the hassle of construction and camera crews and production trucks crowding into their block.

[auntjess]

That was probably the ugliest house on the outside, of anything they've flipped.
It's like the houses I've seen in poor areas of counties without zoning laws.

[millennium]

That could be one of any number of episodes.

 

 

Yes.  I was being ironic.  :)

 

Kiki620 the people at the open houses appear to be mostly local realtors, and when not, probably neighbors they recruit. I've always considered open houses pointless because they're typically for lookie-loos not serious buyers.  

 

I have always wondered why no one ever says, "You're Tarek and Christina from TV!"  I know that if I entered a house and saw them there I would have serious reservations about buying the property because I would immediately suspect that the house was formerly overrun by cockroaches, had dead rodents in the wall, an abandoned septic tank under the backyard, an iffy foundation, gang graffiti under the fresh paint, and a history of squatters.

 

I would die if I spent my life savings on one of those properties, then later watched Flip or Flop and saw what really transpired there before my purchase, like with human waste overflowing in the bathroom, stuff like that.   I wonder how much of the history they disclose to the buyer.

Edited March 20, 2016 by millennium

[auntjess]

In any old house I'd expect it might have had a lot of problems, but if they were fixed, that's fine.

The worse thing would be to buy one of those remodeled homes where the people flipping it either didn't know, care, or both and you'd have load-bearing walls removed, and drywall put up over who know what.

And we've seen shows that do this.

[Bastet]

Yeah, I don't really care what condition a house was in before it was fixed up/cleaned up so long as it was done properly.  When I was house hunting, I wanted a fixer upper so I could do all the repairs and upgrades myself and know they were done properly.  But from what we've seen of Tarek and Christina's contractors on the show, they don't cut corners - there are a few things I've seen where I would have done it better (things where they do it to code, and that's it, but there's a better way to do it that further guards against future problems), but I've never seen something where I think, "I know that's allowed, but no self-respecting plumber/carpenter/electrician/whatever should do it that way."  So, while I'd still be looking closely at everything I could see, I'd be pretty comfortable with the quality of the unseen work in one of their houses. 

[SRTouch]

In any old house I'd expect it might have had a lot of problems, but if they were fixed, that's fine.

The worse thing would be to buy one of those remodeled homes where the people flipping it either didn't know, care, or both and you'd have load-bearing walls removed, and drywall put up over who know what.

And we've seen shows that do this.

Or the roof leaks. More than once I've seen the reno almost finished, a storm come along, and a flipper have to fix walls, ceiling, and/or wood floors.

[chessiegal]

I don't know what CA RE law requires be disclosed, but I'll assume they disclose what is required.

 

We have an interesting case in MD where a couple bought and moved into a house that was infested with rat snakes. They are now suing the realtor for not disclosing it.

 

http://www.capitalgazette.com/news/annapolis/ph-ac-cn-snake-trial-1203-20151202-story.html

 

 

[Talky Tina]

I liked the episode where Christina goes "Eeek!" and runs out of the house.

Is that the one with the tame white pet rat that they pretended was a wild rat invading the house? I rolled my eyes so hard at that one that it took a month for them to roll back.

The rat was pristine white which a wild rat would not be and when they pulled back the garbage to reveal the rat, it just sat there like a domestic pet rat would.

The show is interesting without that fake stuff. I don't understand why they keep putting that stuff in. It makes them look stupid because they're terrible actors.

[chessiegal]

They said in one of their follow-up episodes that it's a running joke that they always put something in the house that scares Christina.

[millennium]

In any old house I'd expect it might have had a lot of problems, but if they were fixed, that's fine.

The worse thing would be to buy one of those remodeled homes where the people flipping it either didn't know, care, or both and you'd have load-bearing walls removed, and drywall put up over who know what.

And we've seen shows that do this.

 

Maybe I'm too OCD, but it would bother me if I knew there was graffiti under my dining room walls that had not been removed but simply painted over.   Or that the bedroom or nursery walls were thick with the decaying shells of dead cockroaches.   I know you can never really be sure of what's what when you buy a house, but when you buy one from Tarek and Christina you can be fairly certain something unpleasant has been glossed over.

 

I bet Christina would never live in a house that she knew had once been infested with roaches, no matter how nice it appears.

Edited March 20, 2016 by millennium

[mmecorday]

 

The show is interesting without that fake stuff. I don't understand why they keep putting that stuff in. It makes them look stupid because they're terrible actors.

They're truly awful, but what's even worse is when other people are called upon to be a part of the drama. I watched the marathon on HGTV yesterday and there was one episode in which the president of the HOA stopped by and told them that the paint color they were using for the outside was not approved. Poor guy. He made Christina and Turek look like Vivien Leigh and Sir Lawrence Olivier.

[iMonrey]

 

I would die if I spent my life savings on one of those properties, then later watched Flip or Flop and saw what really transpired there before my purchase, like with human waste overflowing in the bathroom, stuff like that.   I wonder how much of the history they disclose to the buyer.

 

It wouldn't bother me if there had been bugs or mice or whatever because you can get rid of those. The one that would have really alarmed me, had I bought it then seen the show about it afterwards, was the house where people kept breaking in (the one where they stole Izzy's tools). I mean, they put up security cameras and and installed a new front door and a new fence but . . . that's still a lot of break-ins. I'd be concerned about the area. There was another one where someone stole Tarek and Christina's car right out in front of the house they were working on. I'd find that one alarming too.

 

Other than that, I think in most cases I'd be thrilled to have a home they flipped because the shows demonstrate the lengths they go to in order to meet codes and pass inspections. Especially when they strip everything down to the studs and rebuild everything. You know you're getting (practically) a brand new house.

[millennium]

. that's still a lot of break-ins. I'd be concerned about the area. There was another one where someone stole Tarek and Christina's car right out in front of the house they were working on. I'd find that one alarming too.

 

 

 

The car theft looked staged to me.  

[topanga]

The car theft looked staged to me.  

Apparently they talked about the car theft on Facebook. That doesn't necessarily mean it wasn't staged, but T & C went out of their way to make it sound legit. 

 

 

 

Is that the one with the tame white pet rat that they pretended was a wild rat invading the house? I rolled my eyes so hard at that one that it took a month for them to roll back.

The rat was pristine white which a wild rat would not be and when they pulled back the garbage to reveal the rat, it just sat there like a domestic pet rat would.The show is interesting without that fake stuff. I don't understand why they keep putting that stuff in. It makes them look stupid because they're terrible actors.

Yes, the cute white rat was disappointing. But Christina's screams always sound real. 

 

What about the episode with the leftover poop in the toilet? Would they actually fake that? Now that would turn me off as a potential buyer. Even if the bathroom was completely revamped, complete with a new toilet. 

[chessiegal]

The car theft looked staged to me.  

What you saw on camera was a re-enactment. Their car really was stolen. After they got it back, they traded it in because they said it just didn't seem right anymore.

Edited March 21, 2016 by chessiegal

[millennium]

What you saw on camera was a re-enactment. Their car really was stolen. After they got it back, they traded it in because they said it just didn't seem right anymore.

 

Then they had a responsibility to state it was a re-enactment rather than play-act like they were in the moment.

 

The more I hear about this show -- staging "eek" moments for Christina, recruiting people to pose as potential buyers, and now re-enacting the car theft -- the more I'm beginning to think it's about as real as those scenes of Tarek performing "demo."

 

What's the point of watching anymore?   If the fakery we detect is that obvious, then how much of the rest is phony that we don't know about?   It's Tarek and Christina's version of Storage Wars.

[chessiegal]

Then they had a responsibility to state it was a re-enactment rather than play-act like they were in the moment.

 

The more I hear about this show -- staging "eek" moments for Christina, recruiting people to pose as potential buyers, and now re-enacting the car theft -- the more I'm beginning to think it's about as real as those scenes of Tarek performing "demo."

 

What's the point of watching anymore?   If the fakery we detect is that obvious, then how much of the rest is phony that we don't know about?   It's Tarek and Christina's version of Storage Wars.

Let me clarify - I'm assuming the car theft happening while they were actually filming is slim to none. All they said on FB is that Christina left her purse on the front steps of the house and someone saw it and got her keys. I personally don't care what they re-enact for the cameras - they are telling a story. It doesn't bother me.

[millennium]

If the show started with a notice that what we're seeing is a recreation or dramatization, then no problem.   But don't be faking scenes and letting the viewers believe that what they are seeing is the actual incident.    If they faked that scene, it's only natural to wonder what else is a lie.

[chessiegal]

I don't think they are doing anything different from any other "reality" show. See House Hunters and most of the shows on HGTV.

[Lightning]

I think that Christina's color choices are getting a little repetitive -- white cabinets, gray floor, white-ish quartz, white subway tile backsplash.  The stagers seem to stick to one of two color patterns -- gray with orange accents or gray with lime green accents.  

[WildPlum]

I look at the initial layout of the house and then fast forward to the reveal - I am completely uninterested in the drama. I am helping my son remodel his house and it is really useful to know what current mid-price market in California looks like.

[auntjess]

 

The stagers seem to stick to one of two color patterns -- gray with orange accents or gray with lime green accents.

And every shows uses the Moroccan-pattern rugs.

[iMonrey]

 

Then they had a responsibility to state it was a re-enactment rather than play-act like they were in the moment.

 

Everything on the show is a re-enactment - from "I found this listing online" to the initial walk-thru all the way to the Open House. 

 

That said, it's still about 90% more "real" than most of the other HGTV shows, because at least T&C are actually doing what they claim to do. They are really buying these houses we see and renovating them. Really. 

 

On the other hand, House Hunters is totally fake because the people shopping for houses have already bought one before they even get on the show, and the two other "choices" they look at are just houses that belong to their friends or whatever. HHI is even worse, the people on that show have already been in their new homes for a year or more. And don't even get me started on Property Brothers. Those people have already bought a house too, so the entire front end where they are house hunting is totally faked, and neither Jonathan or Drew is actually doing anything they claim to do (Drew does not find listings or negotiate the sale; the owners have already bought the house - and Jonathan doesn't do designs or anything either). Love it or List it films both a "love it" and "list it" ending for every episode so they can make up an even number of endings.

[MsTree]

^^I was just going to say the exact same thing, iMonrey, so thank you! NO "reality" show is really reality. If you want true reality folks, watch the news.

[Maharincess]

I think for me the fake stuff stands out more on this show because it's just so obvious. These guys are not actors, it's embarrassing to watch sometimes. I can believe House Hunters and those shows more than this one.

I don't understand staging. Every house I've ever looked at has either been empty or half empty and boxes around. I can envision my stuff in a place better if it's empty.

It also seems like such a waste of time to move everything in, set it up, put holes in the walls etc just to take it all back down in a month or whatever.

[iMonrey]

 

I can envision my stuff in a place better if it's empty.

 

Then you are the exception to the rule according to basic Realty 101. The convention wisdom is that buyers are turned off by houses that are empty precisely because they can't envision themselves living there, and they need to see the living spaces  defined by furniture. My own house sat on the market empty for a year before  I bought it.

[Bastet]

I'm an exception, too -- I want it empty so I can see the floors and walls in their entirety, and I can imagine my stuff in there easier if I'm not looking at different stuff.

 

But statistic after statistic tells us staging makes a house sell faster and for more money (plus it makes for better TV), so they're wise to do it.

 

I don't watch this show very often because it's so repetitive, but I like when I come across a follow-up episode where they go visit the new owners of one of their houses -- I like seeing how the owners wound up decorating it, which is more interesting to me than the generic staging (regardless of which design I'd rather have in my own home).

Edited March 27, 2016 by Bastet

[Angeltoes]

I would love to see the size of the closets in their own house. Christina never wears the same thing twice.

[MsTree]

I don't understand staging. Every house I've ever looked at has either been empty or half empty and boxes around. I can envision my stuff in a place better if it's empty.

 

I'm another exception to "the rule" because I totally agree that seeing a place empty helps me to envision my stuff a lot better. If folks "don't know what to do with the space" then they shouldn't be looking at such a large house in the first place. And if it's a small house, and they don't know what to do with a bedroom, living room or family room, then they shouldn't be buying ANY house!

Edited March 26, 2016 by MsTree

[Evangeline]

I think staging is especially effective in houses with unusual spaces -- unusually shaped, unusually small, or unusually large. People will look at those spaces and assume it won't work for them, but then staging can show them how the space can be used.  Interior design doesn't come naturally to everyone! 

 

I've been less keen on some of the recent staging I've seen, especially ones I've seen pictures of online.  Christina's design choices are always very modern, and some of the furniture used doesn't seem to fit that style sometimes.

[ronaround74]

 

I think staging is especially effective in houses with unusual spaces -- unusually shaped, unusually small, or unusually large. People will look at those spaces and assume it won't work for them, but then staging can show them how the space can be used.

 

It's also sometimes hard to judge the size of a room if it's empty and there's nothing to provide a sense of scale. The last time I house hunted, the condo I eventually bought was empty, and I had concerns that the living room wouldn't fit all of my existing furniture. It wasn't a dealbreaker and I ended up buying the place anyway due to the location and other features, but it turned out that all my living room furniture did fit comfortably. So that's one value of staging a home or at least key rooms when prepping for sale.

[Evangeline]

It's also sometimes hard to judge the size of a room if it's empty and there's nothing to provide a sense of scale. The last time I house hunted, the condo I eventually bought was empty, and I had concerns that the living room wouldn't fit all of my existing furniture. It wasn't a dealbreaker and I ended up buying the place anyway due to the location and other features, but it turned out that all my living room furniture did fit comfortably. So that's one value of staging a home or at least key rooms when prepping for sale.

So true. I remember when I was couch shopping for my apartment, I'd look at couches in furniture stores that appeared in the store like they for sure would fit in my apartment, but I knew from the dimensions that they would be way too big. 

Edited March 27, 2016 by Evangeline

[iMonrey]

 

I think staging is especially effective in houses with unusual spaces -- unusually shaped, unusually small, or unusually large. People will look at those spaces and assume it won't work for them, but then staging can show them how the space can be used.  Interior design doesn't come naturally to everyone!

 

I think another issue is the dominance of "open concept" nowadays. If your kitchen and living area are all one big space you really do need to define where the living area and/or TV area is, where the dining area is, etc. That's sort of the irony that T&C always tear down walls to make open concept rooms that look bigger, but then have to pay for staging to define that area so people understand how it's supposed to be used. 

Edited March 28, 2016 by iMonrey

[Bastet]

At least the staging on this show eliminates the recurring script on House Hunters and such where a buyer walks into a room and asks, "What's this for?"  Whatever you want it to be, idiot; other than the kitchen and bathroom(s), the rooms are pretty malleable.

[Peanutbuttercup]

Interesting . . .

http://hookedonhouses.net/2016/02/10/flip-or-flop-tarek-and-christina-el-moussa-success-path-real-estate-seminars/

[topanga]

Interesting . . .

http://hookedonhouses.net/2016/02/10/flip-or-flop-tarek-and-christina-el-moussa-success-path-real-estate-seminars/

I'm surprised Tarak and Christina are still using their names and images to promote seminars that sound like shady money-making schemes. 

[iMonrey]

Wow that does seem shady. T&C have the distinct advantage of buying and selling in a market where turnover is high. That's not going to be the case for everyone all over the country.  

[Angeltoes]

I heard they are having another son in August.

[WildPlum]

Also in a market where the cost of flipping the house, relative to the price of the house, isn't insane. If an average house in your area goes for $200,000 (and that would be in reasonable condition, not entirely remodeled), spending $150,000 on a studs-up reno is only going to work if you get the house for darn near free. If, as in Flip or Flop, houses in the area are going for $600k, then that same $150k reno cost still leaves you breathing room, assuming you can get the house for a reasonable price. As the average cost of the houses drops, the margins on the renos get thinner.

 

The thing is that in my smaller area, mostly because of a lack of competition, it costs MORE to do the reno (assuming you will use licensed and bonded contractors) than it does in Orange County plus the selection of cabinets and counters isn't anywhere near as good. What works on Flip or Flop does not necessarily work in other areas.

 

 

Wow that does seem shady. T&C have the distinct advantage of buying and selling in a market where turnover is high. That's not going to be the case for everyone all over the country.  

[txvoodoo]

Probably these were their pilots, to see how well-recieved they are.

[millennium]

Everything on the show is a re-enactment - from "I found this listing online" to the initial walk-thru all the way to the Open House. 

 

That said, it's still about 90% more "real" than most of the other HGTV shows, because at least T&C are actually doing what they claim to do. They are really buying these houses we see and renovating them. Really. 

 

On the other hand, House Hunters is totally fake because the people shopping for houses have already bought one before they even get on the show, and the two other "choices" they look at are just houses that belong to their friends or whatever. HHI is even worse, the people on that show have already been in their new homes for a year or more. And don't even get me started on Property Brothers. Those people have already bought a house too, so the entire front end where they are house hunting is totally faked, and neither Jonathan or Drew is actually doing anything they claim to do (Drew does not find listings or negotiate the sale; the owners have already bought the house - and Jonathan doesn't do designs or anything either). Love it or List it films both a "love it" and "list it" ending for every episode so they can make up an even number of endings.

 

I've never watched House Hunters or HHI and thought, "That's fake."   Whereas the thought crosses my mind frequently while watching Flip or Flop.

 

How did you come by your info about the fakery on those other shows?

Interesting . . .

http://hookedonhouses.net/2016/02/10/flip-or-flop-tarek-and-christina-el-moussa-success-path-real-estate-seminars/

 

Didn't it used to be called "Trump University?"

[chessiegal]

I've never watched House Hunters or HHI and thought, "That's fake."   Whereas the thought crosses my mind frequently while watching Flip or Flop.

 

How did you come by your info about the fakery on those other shows?

 

Didn't it used to be called "Trump University?"

Because the Property Brothers are card carrying SAG actors. One of them had a magic show in Vegas. Their brother is a TV producer. In contrast to Tarek and Christina, who are not actors, and actually do for a living what is on their show.

[txvoodoo]

I think that Christina's color choices are getting a little repetitive -- white cabinets, gray floor, white-ish quartz, white subway tile backsplash.  The stagers seem to stick to one of two color patterns -- gray with orange accents or gray with lime green accents.  

 

At first, she always used dark cabinets and light granite because she declared that to be "elegant" and "expensive looking." Then she realized (a few years after everyone else) that light painted cabinets were in. I'd love to see her do a butcher-block island, or soapstone, or anything else. 

 

I don't understand staging. Every house I've ever looked at has either been empty or half empty and boxes around. I can envision my stuff in a place better if it's empty.

It also seems like such a waste of time to move everything in, set it up, put holes in the walls etc just to take it all back down in a month or whatever.

 

It's really about the ability to imagine in 3 dimensions. People can have imagination in other areas, but not 3 dimensions. They really don't have any idea how big a king-sized bed is, or standard nightstands. When you hear them say "our furniture won't fit!" they're 99% of the time wrong, but they just can't judge distance and size. (If it were true, either everyone would own massive gothic-sized furniture, or 99% of houses would be Tiny Houses.) 

 

What I don't get is why they don't 1) measure their furniture beforehand and 2) bring a danged tape measure. Hell, get an app on your phone that measures rooms!  When we were house shopping, I had a spreadsheet with all my furniture sizes on it. I took my phone, took pictures of rooms, measured them, so when I got home I could compare with all the info.

 

But yeah, HH is not reality. :)

 

 

^^I was just going to say the exact same thing, iMonrey, so thank you! NO "reality" show is really reality. If you want true reality folks, watch the news.

 

The show I always felt was closest to actual reality was Property Virgins, because sometimes they didn't even end up buying a house! Sometimes they realized they weren't ready yet, or their offers fell through, etc.

 

I watch some UK shows, too, and one I like to watch is Escape to the Country. The same thing happens there - they don't always find their house. But it's my zen show to watch, because it's total fantasy for me. Idyllic UK countrysides, or seaside homes. I love it! 

 

 

Interesting . . .

http://hookedonhouses.net/2016/02/10/flip-or-flop-tarek-and-christina-el-moussa-success-path-real-estate-seminars/

 

Ugh. 

[txvoodoo]

Just remembered, I also meant to comment on the photo they're using to promote those "seminars": isn't it time for men to stop wearing that pointy-head haircut?  It's always seemed so bizarre. 

[iMonrey]

 

How did you come by your info about the fakery on those other shows?

 

For one, people who have been on them have written articles. For another, if you go to the website to apply to be on HH it says right on the application form you must already have bought a house or be in escrow in order to get on the show.

[Lola16]

I heard they are having another son in August.

http://www.hgtv.com/design-blog/shows/flip-or-flop-christina-el-moussa-tarek-el-moussa-home-renovation

 

Photo with the new baby.

 

Also photos of their own renovated home.  Photos look like there's a weird instagram filter on it.  The home doesn't look like the one they film in.

[Lola16]

It wouldn't bother me if there had been bugs or mice or whatever because you can get rid of those. The one that would have really alarmed me, had I bought it then seen the show about it afterwards, was the house where people kept breaking in (the one where they stole Izzy's tools). I mean, they put up security cameras and and installed a new front door and a new fence but . . . that's still a lot of break-ins. I'd be concerned about the area. There was another one where someone stole Tarek and Christina's car right out in front of the house they were working on. I'd find that one alarming too.

 

Other than that, I think in most cases I'd be thrilled to have a home they flipped because the shows demonstrate the lengths they go to in order to meet codes and pass inspections. Especially when they strip everything down to the studs and rebuild everything. You know you're getting (practically) a brand new house.

The car theft looked staged to me.  

What you saw on camera was a re-enactment. Their car really was stolen. After they got it back, they traded it in because they said it just didn't seem right anymore.

Oh that's what happened?  It was so odd, I figured it was a repo.

[topanga]

I must say that after watching several episodes of "First Time Flippers," I have respect for how smoothly T & C conduct their flips. I know they have hundreds of flips under their belts, but even when I look back at the early eps from 2013, they both have a clear vision of how they want the renovated homes to look. Granted, there are dramatic "fails" -- painting the house the wrong color, surprising electrical or plumbing problems, non-permitted additions, etc. But I've never seen Tarek and Christina try to apply new bathroom tile over the existing tile, for example.