S03.E21: Forgiven / S03.E22: Ascension

[TVSpectator]

3 minutes ago, ottoDbusdriver said:

I was surprised when the Hive minions started taking over the S.H.I.E.L.D. base and there was no Koenig to demand that they wait until they have all been issued lanyards before they broke Hive out of the gel block.

 

I remember spotting an Alpha Primitive wearing a lanyard and I got worried that they killed yet another Koenig. 

[DeLurker]

^^^

I need to see that!

[hello]

Quote

Samuel L. Jackson literally did a guest spot for this show, way back in the later half of Season 1 (during the post-Hydra reveal).

He did the first and last episodes of that season.

Quote

I'm pretty sure Mack and Coulson referred to the director as a "she" so that limits the pool quite a bit.

Nope. They were talking about Quake when they said "she". They never specified the gender of the new Director. Could be a man. I just re-watched to make sure.

[RustbeltWriter]

I enjoyed the finale. Everyone who said Chlow bennet did a good job is correct. Her acting in these two episodes was very good, especially when she went back for a Hive hit and felt guilty over what she'd done under his influence. I'm glad to see the end of Ward and Lincoln was at least interesting as he checked out.

I'm glad to see we get something of a clean start next season and now we've got a craven, cowardly mad scientist.

[HawaiiTVGuy]

I felt it was a good episode, and I will echo the compliments of Chloe Bennett's acting in the episodes. The show of course did a horrible job in developing the "love story", I mean you could see it was supposed to be it when they first met at the Inhuman hideaway since you know, they had similar troubled youths, they were connected by being different and he was like there for her emotionally, but overall, they didn't show much "development" of their affection. Like I always felt she had more chemistry with Mack. But she sold her feelings about losing Lincoln and I would say that Lincoln was definitely the most logical one to die. He was someone that wouldn't affect the rest of SHIELD that much, but would definitely create a reason for Daisy to go rouge.

[jhlipton]

On 5/18/2016 at 10:58 PM, SocaShoe said:

I loved the Obi Wan moment...highlight of the hours.

The best part about it? Nobody saw it -- everyone had moved on by then.

 

On 5/19/2016 at 5:54 PM, MisterGlass said:

I would also like to request the speedy return of Bobbie and Hunter.  The show lost some of its levity and flair when they disappeared.  They can double date with FitzSimmons between catastrophes.

Fitz and Simmons and Bobbie and Hunter and Mack and Yo Yo (and Ted and Alice..)

On 5/19/2016 at 8:58 PM, ottoDbusdriver said:

How did Yo-Yo get shot multiple times without Mac seeing her standing in front of him taking each bullet ?  Unless she made multiple trips, but wouldn't any trip after that first bullet have kind of screwed with her capabilities ?

She was only shot once.  She caught all the bullets except the one that hit her, which could have been the last one.

[Chicago Redshirt]

On 5/22/2016 at 11:20 PM, hello said:

He did the first and last episodes of that season.

SLJ wasn't in the very first episode of S1. Maria Hill was interviewing Ward and and that was the only high-ranking SHIELD person in the pilot. I remember commenting over at TWOP that they would probably not be able to get SLJ to do an episode at all about 1-2 episodes before he appeared in the mid-season. Whomp wah. And then of course, he appeared in the final episode that season when most of the world thought him dead.

On 5/19/2016 at 10:58 PM, ottoDbusdriver said:

So let me get this straight -- Daisy's vision of the Quinjet in orbit with the blood drops and floating cross was from the perspective of Hive/Ward ?  But didn't the other folks that were shown glimpses of their future a few episodes back see the future from their perspective (i.e. they were in the scene that they saw), so how come Daisy was no where near the place of her vision ?

And while they did mention that the Zephyr had been outfitted for high altitude missions, there was no mention that any of the Quinjets had been similarly outfitted for flights in space.

Daisy is so special she got not one but two super slo-mo scenes.  FFS !!! We get it already, she's super special.

How did Yo-Yo get shot multiple times without Mac seeing her standing in front of him taking each bullet ?  Unless she made multiple trips, but wouldn't any trip after that first bullet have kind of screwed with her capabilities ?

Seriously, if you are going to make fake newspaper articles could you at least put a little effort in to spell the name of the city correct ?  Not sure where San Fransisco is located in California, but it is spelled wrong in the first line of the paper with that collapsed bridge.  Or interesting fact that the bridge collapsed and slightly injured 3 people accused of murder. Is Daisy going all Robin Hood with her powers ?

Just binge-watched the second half of this season. Some of the visions were from the perspectives of the people having the visions (for instance, Malick's death.) Even then, he could come to the wrong conclusion about the nature of the vision. He was convinced that Hive was going to kill him off in his home on the given night when he was introducing Hive to the remnants of Hydra, when Daisy killed him off quite a bit later at the SHIELD base. 

There were scenes in the visions that were not from the perspectives of the "visionaries." For instance, the vision of Fitzsimmons in snow was not from Daisy's perspective atop the building but from ground level. Also, the wife of the prophet inhuman explained that the first vision that they had was of a car crash. Neither Prophet Inhuman nor Mrs. Prophet Inhuman were apparently in the car crash. IIRC, she talked about receiving a phone call that her mother was in the crash. 

[Raja]

32 minutes ago, Chicago Redshirt said:

SLJ wasn't in the very first episode of S1. Maria Hill was interviewing Ward and and that was the only high-ranking SHIELD person in the pilot. I remember commenting over at TWOP that they would probably not be able to get SLJ to do an episode at all about 1-2 episodes before he appeared in the mid-season. Whomp wah. And then of course, he appeared in the final episode that season when most of the world thought him dead.

 

Director Fury was in the second episode 0-8-4 when he comes in to dress down Coulson for breaking the bus already.

[ChelseaNH]

Finally watched this last night and it hasn't made me any more interested in season 4.  Mack didn't die, which is basically all I cared about.

[sarthaz]

20 hours ago, HawaiiTVGuy said:

I felt it was a good episode, and I will echo the compliments of Chloe Bennett's acting in the episodes. The show of course did a horrible job in developing the "love story", I mean you could see it was supposed to be it when they first met at the Inhuman hideaway since you know, they had similar troubled youths, they were connected by being different and he was like there for her emotionally, but overall, they didn't show much "development" of their affection. Like I always felt she had more chemistry with Mack. But she sold her feelings about losing Lincoln and I would say that Lincoln was definitely the most logical one to die. He was someone that wouldn't affect the rest of SHIELD that much, but would definitely create a reason for Daisy to go rouge.

I've had such a difficult time identifying with or caring about any of these characters.  3 seasons in, and the only ones I've found interesting enough to connect with are Bobbi and Hunter, and maybe Mack.  I can't put my finger on why -- if it's the writing or the performances -- but something's really lacking with this group.  Anyway, to your point, I agree that I felt nothing in regard to the "love" between Daisy and Lincoln.  The actors tried really hard to sell it, but it didn't resonate with me at all, because like you say, they didn't develop it.  Here's the thing, though -- they've invested a ton of time with Fitz and Simmons, and honestly, I don't care about their relationship either.  I felt more emotionally invested in Coulson and Rosalind.  

[vibeology]

Romantic relationships on this show have been a mess. I don't know if the actors just don't have the right chemistry or if the writers are just bad at writing it but of all the relationships this show has set up in some way, the one I care about the most is Mack and Yo-Yo and it is by far the least developed. Romantic FitzSimmons doesn't work for me. I was never into SkyeWard before the Winter Soldier reveal. I didn't like May and Ward, though I think I wasn't supposed to. I didn't feel anything for Daisy and Lincoln. I didn't really care about Simmons and Will or Coulson and Rosalind even though they milked the emotional deaths. May and Andrew and Bobbi and Hunter are a little better but I wasn't heartbroken for May when Andrew died nor did I think Coulson should be crushed losing Rosalind after a few weeks and a couple of dates.

I like most of those characters on their own. (Not Ward and not really Rosalind but the rest are enjoyable) But for whatever reason, the show just isn't selling me on the romances. I think a big part of it is timing; some relationships happen too quickly so I never get to see the characters fall in love (I'd put Lincoln and Daisy in this category. It was too fast and too easy for them so why would I care) and others take too long (FitzSimmons is this for me; by the time we'd gone round with them a couple of times and I'd heard Simmons lay out the reasons she loves Fitz as a friend, I don't really by their love anymore.)

The more I think about it, the more I believe the writing is the issue. Chemistry can do a lot but if the characters never get a moment to be together, to have those longing looks, to spar verbally and all that other important stuff, there just won't be enough there for an audience to latch on to. The show is always trying to fit lots of action into every episode, but if they want to keep romance as a part of the show, it might be nice next season if they slowed it down a little and the actors a chance to have those moments with each other.

[Cranberry]

Yeah, Fitz and Simmons in particular never worked for me because it was not initially intended as a romantic relationship. The actors said in interviews that they didn't play it that way; the producers said it wasn't written that way. But some fans shipped them, and they eventually decided to go with it. It was a mistake, I think, but obviously mileage may vary because I know a lot of people enjoy the relationship.

[HawaiiTVGuy]

22 minutes ago, Cranberry said:

Yeah, Fitz and Simmons in particular never worked for me because it was not initially intended as a romantic relationship. The actors said in interviews that they didn't play it that way; the producers said it wasn't written that way. But some fans shipped them, and they eventually decided to go with it. It was a mistake, I think, but obviously mileage may vary because I know a lot of people enjoy the relationship.

Yeah, it is the unfortunate pattern of Hollywood, two close friends of the opposite sex can never just stay friends.  It is the rule of Hollywood.  

Edited May 24, 2016 by HawaiiTVGuy

[TVSpectator]

5 hours ago, vibeology said:

Romantic relationships on this show have been a mess. I don't know if the actors just don't have the right chemistry or if the writers are just bad at writing it but of all the relationships this show has set up in some way, the one I care about the most is Mack and Yo-Yo and it is by far the least developed. Romantic FitzSimmons doesn't work for me. I was never into SkyeWard before the Winter Soldier reveal. I didn't like May and Ward, though I think I wasn't supposed to. I didn't feel anything for Daisy and Lincoln. I didn't really care about Simmons and Will or Coulson and Rosalind even though they milked the emotional deaths. May and Andrew and Bobbi and Hunter are a little better but I wasn't heartbroken for May when Andrew died nor did I think Coulson should be crushed losing Rosalind after a few weeks and a couple of dates.

I like most of those characters on their own. (Not Ward and not really Rosalind but the rest are enjoyable) But for whatever reason, the show just isn't selling me on the romances. I think a big part of it is timing; some relationships happen too quickly so I never get to see the characters fall in love (I'd put Lincoln and Daisy in this category. It was too fast and too easy for them so why would I care) and others take too long (FitzSimmons is this for me; by the time we'd gone round with them a couple of times and I'd heard Simmons lay out the reasons she loves Fitz as a friend, I don't really by their love anymore.)

The more I think about it, the more I believe the writing is the issue. Chemistry can do a lot but if the characters never get a moment to be together, to have those longing looks, to spar verbally and all that other important stuff, there just won't be enough there for an audience to latch on to. The show is always trying to fit lots of action into every episode, but if they want to keep romance as a part of the show, it might be nice next season if they slowed it down a little and the actors a chance to have those moments with each other.

 

 

Yeah, the romantic relationships on this show have been lacking something (and each one has a different issue to it)... I would say that it's the writing of the relationships more so than the acting. All of the actors are actually pretty great (even Chloe Bennet even though I kind of hate Daisy, right now) but it's just seeing these relationships on screen really does feel flat.

Although, I think that there were at least one or two relationships that felt a bit nice. First was the Coulson/Rosalind relationship. It was interesting to see how it develop and Rosalind even opened up to Coulson (especially when she was talking about her late husband) before they got involved. IMO, it felt a bit organic in the way that it happened, but then they basically used her death as an excuse to have Coulson go on a murderous revenge fuel ramped to another planet (which was out from nowhere and then the relationship was sold as Coulson just lost the love of his life). The second you can probably say is the SimmonsWill relationship because again, Simmons opened up to Will (she talked about being young, sick, and about her father) which again you can see that she is starting to tell him some personal information and is opening up to him on a personal level before they became a couple. Now, don't get me wrong, both relationships aren't masterpieces of great fictional love but just two relationships that kind of stand out as different on this show. 

Another relationship (that can be ranked up with Coulson/Rosalind and the Simmons/Will relationships) was the Ward/Kara-Agent 33 relationship. Although I have no idea if he really had feelings for her or was just using her to get revenge on the rest of the Team. So, that is why it's ranked as number 3. 

IMO, Bobbi and Hunter were probably the most regular relationship but I wasn't really shipping. Although, I don't hate them I just don't feel anything for them. IMO, they are sort of like an old married couple (actually, they are supposed to be an old married couple) and I just glad that there isn't so much angst coming from them. 

As with the Fitz/Simmons relationship yes, I have the same interpretations about Simmions liking Fitz as only a friend and I still can't buy them as a couple nor Simmons actually loving Fitz more than a friend. I understand that there is a huge amount of fans shipping them but really on screen, I just can't buy them as lovers. I can buy them as really close friends (in a platonic sort of way) and I also enjoyed seeing them as close quirky friends. Also, I thought that it was really weird that Simmons would begin the second half of this season as, "hey Fitz can we just go back to being colleagues/friends"? to a few episode later as, "take me now Fitz! I can't wait" which is, IMO, totally weird and lopsided as a develop for that character, because for me it came out of nowhere. Which for me, I would like to blame the shippers but I have read that the showrunners were pretty much gun hoe about having these two as a romantic couple and that they probably had that in mind from Season 1.

Edited May 25, 2016 by TVSpectator

[SocaShoe]

I've always found it interesting that the series tends to go to a very strange sort of tone when it comes to depicting adult romantic relationships. It sometimes feels like I'm watching a romantic comedy out of the 1940s.The thing is, unless the actors have onscreen chemistry, they tend to feel like they're not real. It's not like I need or want lots of skin-baring, bodice ripping scenes, but I feel like they could sometimes there could be a real place for quiet intimacy and physical contact. (Hold her hand. Hug her. Put your arm around her, Coulson.) Even though I loved Clark and Constance Z. in their scenes together, I always felt kind of weird about the Coulsalind romance because it felt...fake. Even the idealized dream that Coulson has of Rosalind telling him to wake up it just feels like two strangers in bed next to each other because we saw them kiss once? and then it was like they were in a serious love of your life kind of relationship. I felt like we got some authentic moments  in Andrew and Melinda's relationship. I'm hoping we see that in Fitz and Simmons relationship - but if everyone keeps showing up when they're trying to have a moment, it's gonna get weird.

[teenj12]

I've never been invested in SHIELD's romances. Like, even with Fitzsimmons I think they're nice and all, but I'm not a  heavy shipper. The MCU in general really sucks at compelling romantic relationships though, lol. 

[romantic idiot]

Except Steve and Bucky. And a little Steve and Tony. 

[TVSpectator]

IMO, everyone should ship Bucky and Steve. That is a couple that I want to see together. 

[teenj12]

On 5/26/2016 at 9:41 PM, TVSpectator said:

IMO, everyone should ship Bucky and Steve. That is a couple that I want to see together. 

OMG this. Bucky/Steve is MCU's only good love story, and they won't even let it happen. Ugh, heteronormativity sucks.

[TVSpectator]

I know a Bucky/Steve ship would never happen and to be fair they are both stright in the comics. So you can argue that the movie version was just following the comics but still they are stll the best couple in the whole MCU even as close stright bros (maybe it has something to do with the whole fighting side by side thing?).

Now I do wonder what couple is number two in the MCU?

[John Potts]

Was anyone else playing the "Which happy couple are going to end up heartbroken?" (because we know TPTB love them some angst). We had the "Pass the cursed item" between Elena/Mac, FitzSimmons and Daisy/Lincoln - and it turned out that Daisy/Lincoln lost. Can't say I'm particularly upset to see Lincoln go, since we never really got to know him anyway and his relationship with Daisy was rather out of nowhere. Thought his death scene with SquidWard was pretty touching, though.

You have to hope that real world security is NOT run like it is done by SHIELD. "Oh yeah, we have this INSANELY DANGEROUS package here that we know our enemy wants - let's leave it in a room with a hole in the roof, I'm sure that will be fine!" Not that the US government is much better - "We've got a rogue missile - let's make sure the deactivation process is both complex (good) and endlessly bureaucratic (bad), because it's not something you want to do in a hurry. Not surprising half the Avengers are reluctant to accept government oversight, given its nature!

I for one am glad that Coulson is no longer head of SHIELD, because he was a pretty poor Director. I'm sure he did his best, but he was WAY too prepared to play favourites. Sometimes he could make the hard calls, but often it seemed to come down to "Do I know the Agent in question?" because when Fitz was trapped in the Hangar, he made sure to save him but abandoned the other (unnamed) Agents to their fates. And don't get me started on what he would do when Daisy was in trouble. But worse than that, when it came to stopping the launch it became "Something a man's gotta do by himself" because... he doesn't want to watch his friends die? If he wanted to ask for volunteers that would be possibly acceptable (although they're going to be Borg-ed if Hive succeeded anyway, so it's more a case of "Do something to prevent the Apocalypse or wait around for it to happen") but to deliberately order them not to come was a terrible decision (even if it was ignored). Did like the Princess Leia moment, though.

Quote

 

mac123x Shotgun-axe is reality!

 

I cheered when it showed up too!

[blueray]

I finally got to watch the rest of this season. I am glad that Fitz and Simmons lived :). I was a bit sad when Lincoln died, but I wasn't surprised by it. Hopefully Ward is gone for good now. Overall great season and I'll looking forward to next one.

P. S I loved Couson's "obi-one-kanobi" stuff, Mac getting his weapon and of course Fitz getting that one guy.

Edited July 1, 2016 by blueray

[ElleMo]

On 5/18/2016 at 8:54 PM, MisterGlass said:

I would be good with May or Hill as director.  I

Maria has been the director in the comics and also on at least one of the animated series.  She was the director during the Civil War story line, so it would make sense to give her the job.  I would be on board with her as director. 

[Notwisconsin]

Cobie Smolders has two movies she's going to appear in in the upcoming year. A series might be too much....

[TVSpectator]

On 5/21/2016 at 3:53 PM, DeLurker said:

^^^

I need to see that!

 

 

 

 

Well, it's been a while but I was a bit bothered that I couldn't find any screenshots to explain what I thought that I saw while watching the Season 3 finale and I kind of just gave up on looking for the correct one months ago. Well, guess what just happened today while I was looking up something else- a screenshot of what I was explaining beforehand and I wasn't even trying to look for it:

 

http://vignette3.wikia.nocookie.net/marvelcinematicuniverse/images/d/d8/Absolution_Primitives.jpg/revision/latest?cb=20160526110054

Edited August 8, 2016 by TVSpectator

[Kel Varnsen]

On 09/06/2016 at 2:47 PM, John Potts said:

 

You have to hope that real world security is NOT run like it is done by SHIELD. "Oh yeah, we have this INSANELY DANGEROUS package here that we know our enemy wants - let's leave it in a room with a hole in the roof, I'm sure that will be fine!" Not that the US government is much better - "We've got a rogue missile - let's make sure the deactivation process is both complex (good) and endlessly bureaucratic (bad), because it's not something you want to do in a hurry. Not surprising half the Avengers are reluctant to accept government oversight, given its nature!

SHIELD used to have a facility that was a launch pad for blasting stuff into the sun. If they still had that they should have dropped Hive there right away. 

The launch code thing didn't make much sense since if it was that hard to get the deactivation codes how was hive's crew able to activate the warhead so easily?

As for the end i really hope they don't use life model decoys that look like the cast too much next season. It will remind me too much of the Krieger-bots from Archer.

[TVSpectator]

10 hours ago, Kel Varnsen said:

SHIELD used to have a facility that was a launch pad for blasting stuff into the sun. If they still had that they should have dropped Hive there right away. 

The launch code thing didn't make much sense since if it was that hard to get the deactivation codes how was hive's crew able to activate the warhead so easily?

As for the end i really hope they don't use life model decoys that look like the cast too much next season. It will remind me too much of the Krieger-bots from Archer.

 

You know, the who idea of having a facility to "launch things into the sun" sounds so much like a lie, even in the MCU. I would imagine that finding a way to send Hive back to that alien planet would've been a better option and also storing his cryo-body not in the hanger bay would've also a better option. 

Yeah, the whole scene of having to use trickery to get the deactivation codes didn't make much sense. Part of thinks that this show thinks it's cool to portray the military as a bunch of jock-ish buffoons and that was just another attempt to prove that SHIELD is really special and that the military is so stupid it's suicidal.