S02.E07: The Boar

[OnceSane]

Grace intervenes after Robert and Sol's big fight.  Frankie opens up to Jacob.  An online friend request from Phil surprises Grace.

[Chaos Theory]

One of the things I like about the season is that it didn't solve the Frankie and Sol affair in an episode.  There were consiquences for everyone.  Even now that Franke and Robert have talked and each appolgized for the whol clusterfrak things are not complexly solved.

I also liked the pairing of Grace and Sol.  It was a fun little foray in an otherwise emotional episode.   Again I can see why Sol and Frankie worked for as long as they did.  Sol sucks as a boyfriend/husband but he is a great friend.

[greekmom]

I didn't like the fact in this episode Frankie apologized to Robert for sleeping with Sol once while Robert has been cheating with Sol for 20 years!   The least Robert could have done was apologized and/or forgiven Frankie since he also cheated with Sol and for a lot longer.  Given the circumstances, I think Robert was acting very childish and that he was the one that was wronged. 

[ally862]

29 minutes ago, greekmom said:

I didn't like the fact in this episode Frankie apologized to Robert for sleeping with Sol once while Robert has been cheating with Sol for 20 years!   The least Robert could have done was apologized and/or forgiven Frankie since he also cheated with Sol and for a lot longer.  Given the circumstances, I think Robert was acting very childish and that he was the one that was wronged. 

I agree.  I don't understand why he kept saying she was the one person he couldn't forgive him sleeping with.  I think she'd be the one person it would be forgivable for him to sleep with.  

[Chaos Theory]

1 hour ago, ally862 said:

I agree.  I don't understand why he kept saying she was the one person he couldn't forgive him sleeping with.  I think she'd be the one person it would be forgivable for him to sleep with.  

Oh I get it completely.  Robert actually did apologize to Frankie and I understand his point.  He does feel bad for how things went and he knows how close Sol and Frankie were so I can see why the one thing about his relationship with Sol that scares him is Frankie.    

[OnceSane]

I liked Frankie's apology and that Robert also apologized.  And I liked that Jacob helped Frankie realize she missed the Robert who was her friend.

I totally understand why Robert is more upset because it was Frankie.  She and Sol have a strong emotional connection so any hookup is about more than just sex or a simple mistake.

Oh and I loved Frankie telling Jacob where she hid/threw his boar-hunting supplies "in the interest of not keeping secrets"…and then just drove off.  Ha!

[zxy556575]

Frankie made me look up no-kill mosquito traps.

No such thing. ;)

[possibilities]

I thought Frankie apologizing was her way of "being the bigger person" -- which honestly she and Grace have been all along. I think Robert is very insecure, and even knowing and admitting he didn't have the higher ground, but being unable to get over it anyway, while it does not make him particularly likable, is a good bit of honest characterization. If he and Sol had been braver, more loving, more honest, and more secure, they would have come out years ago. I know it's not easy, but this show does not take place in 1950, and moreover it's in California, and they run in fairly liberal circles. The fact that they waited 40 years-- or 20 years, depending on how you count-- until well past when the kids were adults, and basically until it was legal to marry-- and that when they did it, they were not abjectly apologetic and generous towards their wives and wanted to fight them about the divorce terms (I remember cutting off credit cards, etc)-- that says a lot about who they are, and the way Robert behaved here seemed very in character to me, even though I also didn't like it. I also think that Frankie and Grace continuing to be supportive and sucked into the drama is in character. Old habits die hard.

[hnygrl]

Upon first viewing, I was angry with Robert for being such a tight-ass about one indiscretion. But after viewing the entire season and going back and watching it again? I get it. It's like  OnceSane said, Frankie and Sol were/are soulmates. They had a deep spiritual, psychological, and even sexual connection for 4 decades. They honestly love and like each other. They honestly are/were each other's best friends which made the betrayal so shattering for Frankie. And is making it so hard for her to begin with a new guy. "What if?" Also, Sol never stopped sleeping with his wife. For the 20 years he was cheating with Robert he still had sex/made love with his wife.

So when Robert heard he had one last roll in the sack with his WIFE? His SOULMATE? His BEST FRIEND? The woman he destroyed? Robert was justifiably pissed. Of all the people to cheat with, the one who could honestly TAKE YOU from me...

Oh man, this SHOW!!! Gonna make you look at your grandparents differently, huh? Especially the ones who have been married 40 or 50 years huh?

[Julia]

Robert went right to destroying the wives as a tactical matter as soon as they knew how they'd been betrayed in season one. Roberts's feelings concern me not at all. At this point, I'm pretty much rooting for Robert and Sol because I think it would serve Robert right to be stuck with Sol and it would keep him away from Frankie. 

Sol just kept his fingers crossed a little longer than Robert did. 

[morakot]

I found Robert spoiled and entitled in season one and have seen very little to change my mind in season two.

[amaranta]

I loved the scene where Frankie apologizes to Robert; Tomlin and Sheen were wonderful.  A couple of hours after I watched this episode I realized just how much credit should go to the actors.  I was / am a huge West Wing fan and not once during that scene did I see President Bartlet talking to Debbie.  I replayed it and still don't.  So kudos.

Grace was great bluntly telling Sol that he had picked the absolute worst place to seek refuge, especially when he had other options.  I love forthright Grace, especially in situations where she must feel like she's been set adrift on a ship of fools.

If Sol is supposed to this kind and wonderful person they need to start showing it.  Right now he's just coming off as a petulant, selfish man-child.

Another good, small moment - Frankie barreling onto the farm in her dust mobile, music blaring.  Hee.  Maybe the world was better a place when she didn't have her license...

ETA - And it just occurred to me the same could be said for Fonda and Waterston, both from The Newsroom.  This cast is really good.  Though I've only seen The Newsroom once; The West Wing I think I've lost count.

Edited May 12, 2016 by amaranta

[Crs97]

Wow, at least when Grace remembered insulting Frankie, she felt bad about it.  Frankie's still chuckling about making fun of Grace in the past.  Sounds like Robert and she were quite the team in belittling his wife - good times!  Remind me not to mind when Grace says something thoughtless to Frankie.

[wendyg]

It's going to say something bad about me, but the thing that Sol has done that outraged me the most was that *he used Grace's computer without permission*. And no one - clearly not the writers - thought it was even worth a pout!

Which led me to think about the relationship of these characters with technology. I think there's an assumption that someone in their 70s is bound to be barely technologically literate, but in reality there are 80-somethings who were among the first web programmers, and Vint Cerf, "father of the Internet" is 72. The four lead actors in this show are 78 (Fonda), 76 (Tomlin), and 75 (both Sheen and Waterston). I think Robert and Sol probably had secretaries and assistants their whole lives and so did Grace in running her business, and so being awkward is logical. But Frankie is an "aging hippie painter". I bet some of her friends told her about the WELL (www.well.com) in 1985 or so, and she joined soon after because it was where all the cool stuff was happening. It would be perfectly plausible for her to be quite the wizard with FTP servers and IRC, and still chatting with friends on Usenet. But of course, most of today's viewing audience would be like, "Huh? Is that an app?"

ETA that I thought Lily Tomlin looked absolutely gorgeous in that orange/gold+blue+white outfit.

Edited May 15, 2016 by wendyg

[Clanstarling]

1 hour ago, wendyg said:

It's going to say something bad about me, but the thing that Sol has done that outraged me the most was that *he used Grace's computer without permission*. And no one - clearly not the writers - thought it was even worth a pout!

Which led me to think about the relationship of these characters with technology. I think there's an assumption that someone in their 70s is bound to be barely technologically literate, but in reality there are 80-somethings who were among the first web programmers, and Vint Cerf, "father of the Internet" is 72. The four lead actors in this show are 78 (Fonda), 76 (Tomlin), and 75 (both Sheen and Waterston). I think Robert and Sol probably had secretaries and assistants their whole lives and so did Grace in running her business, and so being awkward is logical. But Frankie is an "aging hippie painter". I bet some of her friends told her about the WELL (www.well.com) in 1985 or so, and she joined soon after because it was where all the cool stuff was happening. It would be perfectly plausible for her to be quite the wizard with FTP servers and IRC, and still chatting with friends on Usenet. But of course, most of today's viewing audience would be like, "Huh? Is that an app?"

ETA that I thought Lily Tomlin looked absolutely gorgeous in that orange/gold+blue+white outfit.

I hate people using my computer without permission, so I feel your outrage.

I'm a decade younger than the characters, but worked in tech all my adult life - worked on the internet right from the get-go, and still have a technical job. It alternately amuses and infuriates me when older people are routinely dismissed as being idiots with tech. As I've been known to say to my kids - who the hell do you think invented this stuff! Though, to be fair, I always hated FTP servers and still do - they stress me out for some reason.

I work in local government now, and I am astonished how many people in their 20s and 30s who don't understand the basics. I've come to believe its largely a factor of what type of job you have and how you spend your leisure time.

Edited May 15, 2016 by clanstarling

[hnygrl]

I too feel your pain. Nobody, but no-bod-dee uses my personal computer without permission. I have it password locked. And Pin locked. NOBODY touches my baby. I'd have to love you to pieces and trust you with my LIFE to allow you to touch my baby.

I'm about 20 years younger than the stars of this show I've grown to adore, and I'm actually tech support for all my family and friends.

Not to mention in my work life. I mentioned once that I was considering taking a job at another site...

It was the "noooooooooooooooooooo" heard 'round the world. I was both highly amused and highly touched.

It annoys me that in television and movies the older generation is seen as tech illiterate. (The geico commercial where the lady was posting pictures on her "wall"?)

[possibilities]

I think quite a lot of "older generation" stereotypes are quite ridiculous, and one thing I like about this show is how it routinely takes them to task-- not only about technology, but also about other things, especially sex.

People who came of age in the "radical 1960s" are now "old"-- surely all those rebels didn't suddenly become inexperienced passive clueless uptight stuffy old bags of dust all of a sudden when their hair turned grey or they developed a few wrinkles? Those people invented what most youngsters now think of as their own freedoms.

I'm only 50, but I'm pretty sure that I'm not going to suddenly change my entire personality, and forget everything I ever knew about life, when I get older.

[Clanstarling]

The only thing that changed for me (in my 50's) was that I felt suddenly (occasionally) free to not put up with bullshit from people who think they're doing me a favor by doing their job. I'm never rude, but I can be direct and perfectly clear, and use a tone which for some reason intimidates the hell out of people. I do enjoy that moment when I can see the "oh shit" in their faces. The invisible old lady suddenly becomes visible.

[Julia]

33 minutes ago, clanstarling said:

The only thing that changed for me (in my 50's) was that I felt suddenly (occasionally) free to not put up with bullshit from people who think they're doing me a favor by doing their job. I'm never rude, but I can be direct and perfectly clear, and use a tone which for some reason intimidates the hell out of people. I do enjoy that moment when I can see the "oh shit" in their faces. The invisible old lady suddenly becomes visible.

Also, the mom voice. It's surprising how a few decades of talking as if you expect to be obeyed makes people snap to, if you have occasion to use it.

[Bastet]

After basically telling her to go away and never come back, Phil reaches out not with a "Would you like to talk?" phone call but with a Facebook friend request?

I thought, "I'll leave you to develop your sense of irony" would be my favorite line, but then along came, "My deal is our father, who is a mess, is camped out at the house of our mother, of all people, and starting Monday I'm working in an office with, I guess, my now soon-to-be ex stepfather/boss/uncle, whose workload I've been carrying because he had a stupid heart attack."

I agree with two seemingly conflicting opinions expressed above:  Frankie should be the one person Robert could forgive Sol sleeping with (under the circumstances, not again or a year down the road or something), AND she's the one person he can't live with Sol sleeping with.

The relationship between Grace and Frankie is the main draw, obviously, but I also thoroughly enjoy exploring Grace/Robert, Frankie/Sol, Grace/Sol, and Frankie/Robert and look forward to continuing that.  Robert's right that the four of them are family, and I think they're going to settle into something comfortable eventually.  But Sol - who doesn't seem to want to be emotionally inconvenienced in any way - wants to jump immediately from here to there.  Some day down the road, maybe he can run away to Frankie's for a couple of hours when he has a problem with Robert.  But right now, camping out on her patio?  Come on, Sol!

[MissLucas]

That was my favorite episode so far. Every pairing worked : Grace and Sol together was much more fun to watch than I expected. Grace was also great when dealing with Robert. I loved the scene between Robert and Frankie - I thought it very touching and kudos to Tomlin and Sheen who made it work. There were unexpected layers - the friendship that Frankie had mentioned before that had been destroyed by the affair really came through although we've never seen it before. Even Coyote (who I normally don't like very much) was great when acknowledging Bud's many shoulders (and great shout-out to CCH Pounder).

And then there was: 'There's about ten people in the world who can pull off that mustache and he's nine of them.' LOL!

[PaulaO]

Late to the show, but I loathed Robert in season 1 and loathe him even more.  WTF he tells Sol to get out?  Sleeping with Frankie was closure for both Sol and Frankie.  I hope Robert's next heart attack is fatal.  On the other hand I could not love Ernie Hudson and Lily Tomlin more.  They make the perfect couple and I love that they are taking it slow. 

"Found it, and a piece of pepperoni."  Bud and Coyote had great lines this episode.