"Oh HELL No!": TV Moments That Make You Irate

[Bruinsfan]

19 hours ago, magicdog said:

Except was it really for the best to interfere with an adoption to a good couple who would have given the baby a good home?  Was it really the right thing for Jonathan to get him to like another man's child that wasn't his responsibility? 

I guess Bible thumpers see the loving prospective adopting couple's infertility as a judgment from God that shouldn't be tampered with. Clearly since it worked out that the unmarried woman who doesn't want the child is the one who got pregnant, she's the one who's MEANT to raise the child and will just have to deal, regardless of what her home situation with the obligatory new insta-husband will be like or whether she even wants to be a parent.

Suck it, wanton hussy and cursed barren duo—if you'd just prayed better and lived godlier lives that embryo would have miraculously ended up in the other uterus and you'd all be happy instead of yearning for each other's situations!

Edited February 12, 2023 by Bruinsfan

[Ambrosefolly]

Cold Case: The Sleepover. This episode revolved a 12 yr old that is murdered while attending a sleepover. The 3 other girls were kind of "mean girls" (it was right after the movie came out) and trick the victim into attending. One of the girls is particularly brutal bully (but not the murderer). While the bullying of the victim is never ok, it turns out that the 12 year old's mother had an affair with the father of the bully, which caused the bully to lash out (and sounded like she knew the dad was married and the parent of one her daughter's classmates). How fucking stupid was the victim's mother? Out of all the people in town to date she picked the married father or one of her daughter's classmates? Her daughter's life was difficult already, being the "weird" kid and raised by a single mother, but  add contribute to the break up of one the classmates' parents' marriage, it really pissed me off, and especially when interviewed she didn't look embarrassed by this. 

[Bastet]

Other than Rita herself, her mom is the person I have the least problem with in that episode.  Having an affair with someone who's married is shitty, but that's the only shitty thing we learn of her doing.  She was a single mom doing a great job bolstering the confidence of her awkward daughter in the brutal world of junior high.  When she tells Rita everyone who's ever been anything in the history of time was a loser back in junior high, but when you get to college you're going to be the coolest because you're smart and different and wacky and that's what's important, not what some idiots think of you, Rita is so heartened by it she assures Ariel of it later. 

Meanwhile Brandi's parents tortured their children, which resulted in Brandi being abusive to those beneath her (drowning the cat like her parents forced the kids to nearly drown each other as punishment and bullying those below her in the social pecking order), Tiffany's dad was the one who was cheating on a spouse by having the affair (I always find the partner who's cheating more despicable than the one who's knowingly being the other party to that cheating) and who dumped Rita's mom after Rita died because her being knocked out by grief was a real buzzkill to him, Tiffany relentlessly picked on Rita because of the affair that Rita didn't even know about (and Tiffany knew she was in the dark), let alone have any responsibility for, and Ariel reacted to her junior high angst over having the Queen Bee mad at her by killing her best friend.  (Her "I didn't know you lived through it" in the confession is one of the many things about that episode that break my heart, sure, as she was a kid and it all seemed so huge and endless, but still -- she killed someone who had always been very good to her, even when it wasn't reciprocated.)

I've got a long line of objections before I get to Rita's mom being involved with a married man.  (And when the police interviewed her, she was saddened to learn that Tiffany had known; they'd thought they were successfully discreet so the kids wouldn't be any part of it.  I don't expect her to be any remorseful than that at the time of the interview, given how many years have passed and that the point of this conversation is re-opening her daughter's murder.)

Edited February 14, 2023 by Bastet

[Ambrosefolly]

At least with Brandi's asshole parents, the audience were supposed to see them as assholes (and people who aren't too bright as one of the girls could have told their own parents). Scotty Valens slammed the door in the parents' faces, showing their kids were done with them. But Rita's mom Kelly was treated with kids gloves. It didn't sound like she had no idea that Tiffany's dad was married or his kid was a classmate of his daughter. They tried to be discreet? Didn't work and any other adult would tell that is a stupid thing to believe she could get away with that type of behavior. 

It was a really shitty thing she not only did to Tiffany, who ended up becoming an alcoholic (that was indirectly linked to the affair), but opening Rita open to being picked on. I felt more for bully!Tiffany than that fake nice girl act of Rita's mom. And yes, I hold Kelly partially responsible for Tiffany's problems. 

 

[Bastet]

57 minutes ago, Ambrosefolly said:

It was a really shitty thing she not only did to Tiffany, who ended up becoming an alcoholic (that was indirectly linked to the affair),

Tiffany attributed her alcohol dependency to all the shit that went on in Brandi's house that horrible final night; she was so horrified by Rita's face as she left her behind she got drunk on the Beaudry liquor cabinet, and never got that image out of her increasingly fucked-up mind.

Yes, it was a shitty thing Rita's mom did back in the day with the affair, but I can't wrap my mind around watching an episode filled with life-ruining behavior and walking away with that being the "Oh, hell no!" decision.

[Ambrosefolly]

8 hours ago, Bastet said:

Tiffany attributed her alcohol dependency to all the shit that went on in Brandi's house that horrible final night; she was so horrified by Rita's face as she left her behind she got drunk on the Beaudry liquor cabinet, and never got that image out of her increasingly fucked-up mind.

Yes, it was a shitty thing Rita's mom did back in the day with the affair, but I can't wrap my mind around watching an episode filled with life-ruining behavior and walking away with that being the "Oh, hell no!" decision.

Because it was the one decision that wasn't called out.

Rita wouldn't be there in the first place if Tiffany wasn't trying to get revenge on what Kelly was doing with her dad. (I will say, Tiffany's dad was worse than Rita's mom in that he really didn't care about being a good person or a good parent). And you can't even attribute it to being a different time, because on Gilmore Girls, episode 2, Lorelai decides not to date someone partially because his kid went to school with Rory and she knew it would be weird for Rory.

We can assume by the end of the episode that Brandi and her brother were in the process of cutting their parents out of their life, maybe even having them prosecuted for child abuse ran out if the statute of limitations hadn't run out. 

[Grrarrggh]

Rihanna performing at the Super Bowl Halftime Show only a few years after she claimed she wouldn't because of how racist the NFL is. Way to sell out. 

[Spartan Girl]

I’m a few days late, but this is your yearly reminder that the Buffy Valentine’s Day episode where all the women of the town were brainwashed into lusting after Xander should’ve ended with him getting kicked in the nuts by ALL of them and Cordy dumping his ass for good, not them getting back together so he could cheat on her with Willow the following season.

[Wiendish Fitch]

1 hour ago, Spartan Girl said:

I’m a few days late, but this is your yearly reminder that the Buffy Valentine’s Day episode where all the women of the town were brainwashed into lusting after Xander should’ve ended with him getting kicked in the nuts by ALL of them and Cordy dumping his ass for good, not them getting back together so he could cheat on her with Willow the following season.

[Spartan Girl]

I guess Black History Month is as good a time as any to bring up a South Park episode that’s aged like milk:

The whole town is in uproar because Chef wants to change the town flag because it depicts a Black man getting lynched. To pass the buck, the mayor organizes a school debate that will decide the outcome. Stan and Kyle are on the preserve side. Here’s what follows:

KYLE Our main point is that the flag shouldn't offend anyone, because killing has been around since the bieginning of time. All animals kill. And the animals that don't kill are stupid ones, like cows and turtles and stuff. So people should not be so upset about killing.

CHEF Whoa whoa whooaa! You just missed the point entirely!

KYLE Huh?

CHEF I'm not mad because the flag shows somebody gettin' killed, It's because it's racist!

KYLE'S TEAM Racist??

CHEF Children, don't you even know what this argument is about?! That flag is racist because a black man is being hung by white people.

KYLE'S TEAM Ooooooohhh.

KYLE W-we really didn't see it that way.

CHEF But that's a black man up there!

KYLE Y-yeah, but... the color of someone's skin doesn't matter.

CHEF Well of course it matters when- ...Oh my God. Wait a minute. You children didn't even see the flag as a black man being hanged by white people, did you?

KYLE'S TEAM No.

CHEF Why, that is- that is the most beautiful thing I have ever heard. All this time I thought these little crackers had turned racist, when actually they were so not racist that they didn't even make a separation of black and white to begin with. All they saw when they looked at that flag was five people. I'm sorry, children. I was wrong about you. But I still the flag needs to be changed. But now I realize that I almost let racism turn me into a racist.

*stares hard at the camera*

Do I even NEED to explain why this is a fucked up takeaway?!?!

Edited February 17, 2023 by Spartan Girl

[Wiendish Fitch]

24 minutes ago, Spartan Girl said:

I guess Black History Month is as good a time as any to bring up a South Park episode that’s aged like milk:

The whole town is in uproar because Chef wants to change the town flag because it depicts a Black man getting lynched. To pass the buck, the mayor organizes a school debate that will decide the outcome. Stan and Kyle are on the preserve side. Here’s what follows:

KYLE Our main point is that the flag shouldn't offend anyone, because killing has been around since the bieginning of time. All animals kill. And the animals that don't kill are stupid ones, like cows and turtles and stuff. So people should not be so upset about killing.

CHEF Whoa whoa whooaa! You just missed the point entirely!

KYLE Huh?

CHEF I'm not mad because the flag shows somebody gettin' killed, It's because it's racist!

KYLE'S TEAM Racist??

CHEF Children, don't you even know what this argument is about?! That flag is racist because a black man is being hung by white people.

KYLE'S TEAM Ooooooohhh.

KYLE W-we really didn't see it that way.

CHEF But that's a black man up there!

KYLE Y-yeah, but... the color of someone's skin doesn't matter.

CHEF Well of course it matters when- ...Oh my God. Wait a minute. You children didn't even see the flag as a black man being hanged by white people, did you?

KYLE'S TEAM No.

CHEF Why, that is- that is the most beautiful thing I have ever heard. All this time I thought these little crackers had turned racist, when actually they were so not racist that they didn't even make a separation of black and white to begin with. All they saw when they looked at that flag was five people. I'm sorry, children. I was wrong about you. But I still the flag needs to be changed. But now I realize that I almost let racism turn me into a racist.

*stares hard at the camera*

Do I even NEED to explain why this is a fucked up takeaway?!?!

[magicdog]

Caught another episode of Highway to Heaven - and I'm annoyed at how the character of Mark Gordon was messed with in this episode.

In "I Was A Middle Aged Werewolf" (1987), we get a combination Halloween episode and a nod to Michael Landon's early movie career in "I Was A Teenage Werewolf" (1957).

We have a little boy named Alan who is bullied a bit by his older sister, Cindy.  She decides while trick or treating to have it look like she was kidnapped by showing up at the door and someone yanking her inside!  Naturally Alan is scared and tried to tell everyone about what he saw, but everyone is dismissive.  Meanwhile, he is bedeviled by his fears and has trouble coping.  Enter Jonathan who befriends him and tried to explain that while fear to a degree is healthy, it can't dominate your life.  He also asks Jonathan to help him find his sister - and when Jonathan enters the house asking where the girl was, the older couple living there were unaware of the prank and thought Jonathan was an intruder!  He apologizes and leaves.  

Meanwhile, Mark decides to eat a sandwich which Jonathan warns would cause him nightmares.  He then settles down to watch a classic horror movie on TV (the film this episode is based on) and even tells Jonathan that the main character in the film looks kind of like him - only younger.  Jonathan remarks he was never that young! All through the episode, we see Mark having what turns out to be a nightmare - he sees a monster breaking down the door of their room, he frantically trying to escape a werewolf (Jonathan) and trying to jump out of a painfully small window begging for help from police just arriving below. Each time waking up and realizing it was all a dream.  

Eventually, Jonathan tells Alan not to be afraid of monsters because he knew for a fact that God didn't make monsters (of course this is a show in which the Devil is real, so who's to say if monsters of other kinds aren't?).  He "becomes" a werewolf to scare the pants of Cindy (who ditched her brother to hang out with a friend at her place to watch movies) while Alan "rescues her" by fighting off the werewolf that breaks in!

At the end of the episode, Mark's nightmare starts again, then the police show up and come to the rescue - except the cop is a werewolf too!  Then Jonathan (in full wolf makeup) breaks into the apartment, growls, then looks into the camera and says, "Happy Halloween!" to the viewers.

OK - First I was annoyed at Cindy since she left her brother ALONE at night while trick or treating.  Her parents tasked her to watch him and other than the trick that was played on her by Jonathan and Alan, she really didn't get much comeuppance.  Second, her "joke" of being kidnapped was an understandably scary thing and she's lucky her brother or someone else didn't call the cops because kidnappings like that have been known to happen.  Third, poor Mark!  It was like someone thought it funny to keep giving him the same nightmare at least 3 times then making it real by having Jonathan burst in for real this time and make a cop one too!!  Stuff like that could have given Mark a heart attack!  I honestly felt bad for him being the butt monkey here.

[JustHereForFood]

On 2/16/2023 at 10:38 PM, Spartan Girl said:

I’m a few days late, but this is your yearly reminder that the Buffy Valentine’s Day episode where all the women of the town were brainwashed into lusting after Xander should’ve ended with him getting kicked in the nuts by ALL of them and Cordy dumping his ass for good, not them getting back together so he could cheat on her with Willow the following season.

I get that they wanted to show us how Cordelia got over her insecurities about dating the unpopular guy and ended the episode standing up for herself to her friends and not being ashamed of Xander... but they could have gotten there in a better way, certainly.

What pissed me in the episode was how Buffy ended up thanking Xander for not taking an advantage of her when she was under the influence of the spell. Gosh, how wonderful it is to have a friend who won't rape you when given a chance! Be grateful for such friends, girls!

[Spartan Girl]

12 hours ago, JustHereForFood said:

What pissed me in the episode was how Buffy ended up thanking Xander for not taking an advantage of her when she was under the influence of the spell. Gosh, how wonderful it is to have a friend who won't rape you when given a chance! Be grateful for such friends, girls

Even worse was how the show treated it like it was some agonizing sacrifice on Xander’s part. Like, gee, Xander, didn’t this whole thing start because you wanted to brainwash Cordy into wanting you back all that so YOU could reject her?! And now it turns out that you never stopped lusting after Buffy even when you started dating Cordy then sniffing after Willow when she moved on with Oz?!

Buffy shouldn’t have thanked him, she should’ve punched him. Hell, he deserved to have her punch him in the face MANY TIMES over the series—times that I’ve already ranted about at length.

Edited February 19, 2023 by Spartan Girl

[Danny Franks]

11 hours ago, Spartan Girl said:

Even worse was how the show treated it like it was some agonizing sacrifice on Xander’s part. Like, gee, Xander, didn’t this whole thing start because you wanted to brainwash Cordy into wanting you back all that so YOU could reject her?! And now it turns out that you never stopped listing after Buffy even when you started dating Cordy then sniffing after Willow when she moved on with Oz?!

Buffy shouldn’t have thanked him, she should’ve punched him. Hell, he deserved to have her punch him in the face MANY TIMES over the series—times that I’ve already ranted about at length.

Xander is the worst. I've said it many times, but it's always true. He's basically Joss Whedon's voice on the show - believes he's a good guy, tries to be friendly and approachable and funny with women, but there's always the undercurrent of 'I'd totally do her, if she'd let me' and there's always resentment of any other guys who appear to threaten his status as the most important guy in Buffy's life, or Willow's or even Cordelia's.

The idea of him being a strong and good person because he doesn't take advantage of one of his closest friends when she's not in control of herself just makes me think of Chris Rock's famous bit:

"People* always wanting credit for shit they're just supposed to do."

*Yes. I've changed that word. Chris Rock can say it, I can't.

 

 

[Spartan Girl]

Xander didn’t sure have a problem with trying rape Buffy while he was under the hyena spell in season one. Yes, he was under an spell, but still.

Remember that interview where Sarah Michelle Gellar said that Buffy should end up with Xander? I’m pretty sure Whedon put her up to saying that.

[Wiendish Fitch]

9 minutes ago, Spartan Girl said:

Xander didn’t sure have a problem with trying rape Buffy while he was under the hyena spell in season one. Yes, he was under an spell, but still.

I remember someone on TWoP saying that Buffy "looked aroused" during that scene. I... I can't. I just can't.

10 minutes ago, Spartan Girl said:

Remember that interview where Sarah Michelle Gellar said that Buffy should end up with Xander? I’m pretty sure Whedon put her up to saying that.

I'd stake (*rimshot*) my life on it. 

[Spartan Girl]

1 hour ago, Wiendish Fitch said:

I remember someone on TWoP saying that Buffy "looked aroused" during that scene. I... I can't. I just can't.

🤮🤮🤮🤮🤮🤮🤮🤮🤮🤮🤮🤮🤮🤮🤮🤮

[Mabinogia]

7 hours ago, Wiendish Fitch said:

I remember someone on TWoP saying that Buffy "looked aroused" during that scene. I... I can't. I just can't.

Please tell me autocorrect screwed up and it was supposed to be "looked repulsed". Otherwise, that is disgusting! Though, everything about Xander "good guy" Harris was pretty repulsive. His expectation that women should fall for him because he exists, the way he considers women things to ogle, use and discard but still expects to be concidered the "good guy", ugh, I just really hate Xander. 

I did, admittedly, like him early on in the first season, but it tanked pretty quickly. 

[Spartan Girl]

I hated how the show tried to frame Xander leaving at the altar as “a wrong thing done for the right reason”. Like he wanted to protect Anya because he was so terrified of ending up like his parents…while not even considering the fact that he could marry her and just, you know, do everything he could to be a good husband. But nope, that was apparently too hard for him. Better to just leave Anya at the wedding, that’s so much better! Because he never really wanted to commit to her, he just proposed to her right before the apocalypse because it was romantic and sexy, then didn’t have to guts to admit he was having second thoughts right until the last fucking minute!

And no, I will not give him a pass just because he got spooked by that fake vision! Like I said before, that could have easily motivated him to grow up and be a better person, but he squandered that, just like all the other opportunities he was given for character growth.

[Mabinogia]

44 minutes ago, Spartan Girl said:

And no, I will not give him a pass just because he got spooked by that fake vision! Like I said before, that could have easily motivated him to grow up and be a better person, but he squandered that, just like all the other opportunities he was given for character growth.

That would have been an interesting storyline and the humor of an average guy trying to be "good enough" for a literal demon could have been fun. But then, that would mean Joss would have had to admit that Xander wasn't already the greatest man to ever walk the earth so it would never have happened. 

[Ceindreadh]

1 hour ago, Spartan Girl said:

I hated how the show tried to frame Xander leaving at the altar as “a wrong thing done for the right reason”. Like he wanted to protect Anya because he was so terrified of ending up like his parents…while not even considering the fact that he could marry her and just, you know, do everything he could to be a good husband. But nope, that was apparently too hard for him. Better to just leave Anya at the wedding, that’s so much better! Because he never really wanted to commit to her, he just proposed to her right before the apocalypse because it was romantic and sexy, then didn’t have to guts to admit he was having second thoughts right until the last fucking minute!

And no, I will not give him a pass just because he got spooked by that fake vision! Like I said before, that could have easily motivated him to grow up and be a better person, but he squandered that, just like all the other opportunities he was given for character growth.

Getting cold feet and wanting to call off the wedding on his wedding day was bad, but better than going through with something he wasn't committed to.  However, making Anya be the one to tell everybody was an epic dickish move. 

[Spartan Girl]

2 hours ago, Ceindreadh said:

Getting cold feet and wanting to call off the wedding on his wedding day was bad, but better than going through with something he wasn't committed to. 

But to quote Adam Sandler:

[Ceindreadh]

6 hours ago, Spartan Girl said:

But to quote Adam Sandler:

Sorry, I didn’t realise that there was a cut off point for changing your mind prior to a wedding. 

[Spartan Girl]

3 hours ago, Ceindreadh said:

Sorry, I didn’t realise that there was a cut off point for changing your mind prior to a wedding. 

Literally any time before the bride/groom is dressed up and about to walk down the aisle is better to call off a wedding, if only for common decency and to avoid publicly humiliating the dumped party.

[AgathaC]

2 hours ago, Spartan Girl said:

Literally any time before the bride/groom is dressed up and about to walk down the aisle is better to call off a wedding, if only for common decency and to avoid publicly humiliating the dumped party.

Or, if you absolutely must do it that late, at least have the balls to stand up and be the one who makes the announcement and make sure the person you’ve just crushed has ample support.

[proserpina65]

On 2/20/2023 at 9:59 AM, AgathaC said:

Or, if you absolutely must do it that late, at least have the balls to stand up and be the one who makes the announcement and make sure the person you’ve just crushed has ample support.

That always bugged me about Burke ending it with Christina in the lobby of the church on Grey's Anatomy.  The wedding was his idea to begin with, everything about it was what he insisted on, but when he finally realized that it was a huge mistake (mainly for Christina), he didn't have the decency to walk back into the church full of mostly his friends and family and call it off himself.  He made Christina's maid of honor do it.

[Spartan Girl]

And that’s the other thing that pisses me off about the whole mess: no support whatsoever for Anya. The rest of the Scoobies just let her leave; the possibility never occurred to them that leaving Anya alone and vulnerable was a huge mistake, that she would make a stupid decision in the heat of the moment, like getting her vengeance back on—”Was Anya talking to D’Hoffryn?” “Wait, you don’t think—?” “Oh shit, we have to stop her!”

No, none of that at all. Because like @Mabinogia said, that would have required Whedon and the show to finally admit that Xander wasn’t the greatest man ever and certainly not worth turning back into a demon over. So after acting shocked that she was a demon again, they just shrugged it off like they always did about Anya’s past.

Gosh, why does this sound so familiar? Oh that’s right: the Avengers treated Wanda the same way after they Blipped her back, leaving her alone to deal with Vision’s death without bothering to help her get his corpse back from the government! With friends like these…

Edited February 21, 2023 by Spartan Girl

[Mabinogia]

2 hours ago, Spartan Girl said:

The rest of the Scoobies just let her leave; the possibility never occurred to them that leaving Anya alone and vulnerable was a huge mistake, that she would make a stupid decision in the heat of the moment

I would have cheered her on if she'd gone back to being Anyanka and flayed Xander's ass. She's a Vengeance demon, who better to get vengeance on than the asshat who dumped her at the alter? 

Alas, Joss wasn't man enough to handle anything bad happening to his self insert, so we got what we got. 

[Spartan Girl]

1 hour ago, Mabinogia said:

I would have cheered her on if she'd gone back to being Anyanka and flayed Xander's ass. She's a Vengeance demon, who better to get vengeance on than the asshat who dumped her at the alter? 

Alas, Joss wasn't man enough to handle anything bad happening to his self insert, so we got what we got. 

Many people, including the old TWOP recapper, have judged Anya harshly for trying to get someone to wish for (among other things) Xander’s you-know-what to blow to smithereens.

But as someone who hated Xander and wished for his gruesome end on a fairly regular basis, she had my full support. 

Edited February 21, 2023 by Spartan Girl

[Mabinogia]

1 hour ago, Spartan Girl said:

Many people, including the old TWOP recapper, have judged Anya harshly for trying to get someone to wish for (among other things) Xander’s you-know-what to blow to smithereens.

I would have happily made that wish for her. I loved Anya and hated that they stuck her with that jerk. She deserved much better, and her job was to torture/kill people and I still think she deserved better than Xander which shows what I think of him. 

[Danny Franks]

On 2/21/2023 at 11:49 PM, Spartan Girl said:

Many people, including the old TWOP recapper, have judged Anya harshly for trying to get someone to wish for (among other things) Xander’s you-know-what to blow to smithereens.

But as someone who hated Xander and wished for his gruesome end on a fairly regular basis, she had my full support. 

Xander being neutered would have prevented about 60% of the show's storylines from even happening. Buffy's life would have been much more peaceful.

[Spartan Girl]

So I was watching the “Colonel Homer” episode of The Simpsons, and I know that I’m probably biased at this point because I cannot stand Marge, but I couldn’t bring myself to sympathize with her in this episode. Her immediately assuming the worst about Homer becoming Lurleen’s manager without giving him the benefit of the doubt comes off as pure hypocrisy when it was only the previous season she was about to have an affair with Jacques the bowler—and she was practically driving to his apartment knowing full well what was going to happen until her conscience caught up with her.

Homer, on the other hand, didn’t have the slightest interest in Lurleen and was completely oblivious that she wanted him that way—but once it finally dawned on him, he immediately backed off and passed her on to another manager, because for all his many faults, he loves Marge and cheating on her was unthinkable for him. Even in the Mindy episode, he was fighting those feelings tooth and nail and beating himself up over it.

So Homer can’t even have a platonic female friend without Marge getting on her broom and becoming a clingy jealous girl, while we’re supposed to sympathize whenever she has an emotional affair with another man. Got it.

Edited March 1, 2023 by Spartan Girl

[Blergh]

OK, even though it was one of my fave shows,some episodes of The Jeffersons weren't as good as the others, and there were those that were down right infuriating.

Case in point 'George Won't Talk' (Season Two). Robert Guillaume guested as character named Charles Thompson a youth group leader in Harlem who asks George to speak to his club. OK, George goes up there and does his best to give an inspirational speech and what does he get? His van gets completely looted of his customers' clothes BY said youth group!

This gets George to run back to his apartment and attempt to call the cops but Charles makes a beeline for the apartment and when George is starting to dial the phone Charles puts his hand on the cradle to tell George  'I can't let you DO that!' and disconnects the phone!

Then one of the gang Ronnie  (Ernest Thomas in his first role) comes in and George is ready to bless him out when Lionel #2 shows up and the two of them catch up! Louise is happy to see Lionel's pal but George is livid. Lionel says that he DID hang with them but didn't do 'really' participate in stealing and then said that he could have been LIKE Ronnie had George not gotten them out of Harlem which Louise concurs! Then George agrees not to call the cops and give another speech to the youth group!

 

ARGGH!! I know George is supposed to be the heavy and usually in the wrong but here he heeded this invite to speak at this youth group to try to inspire them to believe that they could find their way out grinding poverty as he had via hard work and determination- and they ROBBED him! And the audience was expected to consider him wrong for wanting to call the cops and press charges against those who robbed him?! Uh-UNH! And why was Louise indifferent to the fact that they'd looted that van which meant that not only having taken food out of HER mouth but also that they'd have to compensate ALL those customers who'd lost some of their best clothes! How I wish George had SLAMMED the receiver right on Charles's hand and told him he had TWO SECONDS to scram the apartment or he'd charge him with obstruction of justice!  Oh, and nothing from Charles, Ronnie or any of them about the youth group returning the clothes or compensating George for his loss. WHY was George considered the bad guy for attempting to give them consequences for having bitten his hand while he was trying to inspire them to find legit ways to feed themselves?!  And, they HAD to know whose van they were looting since he had his company name of 'Jefferson's Cleaners' on it! And I hated how Louise swept this crime against her family's livelihood under the rug with a 'boys will be boys' tude just because Ronnie had been civil to her when he'd meet up with Lionel way back when!

BOOOO!!!!

[Grrarrggh]

5 hours ago, Blergh said:

OK, even though it was one of my fave shows,some episodes of The Jeffersons weren't as good as the others, and there were those that were down right infuriating.

Case in point 'George Won't Talk' (Season Two). Robert Guillaume guested as character named Charles Thompson a youth group leader in Harlem who asks George to speak to his club. OK, George goes up there and does his best to give an inspirational speech and what does he get? His van gets completely looted of his customers' clothes BY said youth group!

This gets George to run back to his apartment and attempt to call the cops but Charles makes a beeline for the apartment and when George is starting to dial the phone Charles puts his hand on the cradle to tell George  'I can't let you DO that!' and disconnects the phone!

Then one of the gang Ronnie  (Ernest Thomas in his first role) comes in and George is ready to bless him out when Lionel #2 shows up and the two of them catch up! Louise is happy to see Lionel's pal but George is livid. Lionel says that he DID hang with them but didn't do 'really' participate in stealing and then said that he could have been LIKE Ronnie had George not gotten them out of Harlem which Louise concurs! Then George agrees not to call the cops and give another speech to the youth group!

 

ARGGH!! I know George is supposed to be the heavy and usually in the wrong but here he heeded this invite to speak at this youth group to try to inspire them to believe that they could find their way out grinding poverty as he had via hard work and determination- and they ROBBED him! And the audience was expected to consider him wrong for wanting to call the cops and press charges against those who robbed him?! Uh-UNH! And why was Louise indifferent to the fact that they'd looted that van which meant that not only having taken food out of HER mouth but also that they'd have to compensate ALL those customers who'd lost some of their best clothes! How I wish George had SLAMMED the receiver right on Charles's hand and told him he had TWO SECONDS to scram the apartment or he'd charge him with obstruction of justice!  Oh, and nothing from Charles, Ronnie or any of them about the youth group returning the clothes or compensating George for his loss. WHY was George considered the bad guy for attempting to give them consequences for having bitten his hand while he was trying to inspire them to find legit ways to feed themselves?!  And, they HAD to know whose van they were looting since he had his company name of 'Jefferson's Cleaners' on it! And I hated how Louise swept this crime against her family's livelihood under the rug with a 'boys will be boys' tude just because Ronnie had been civil to her when he'd meet up with Lionel way back when!

BOOOO!!!!

This is so on point and timely. The USA is dealing with this right now. How deal with children and young people who commit crimes, keeping the rest of society safe, while also not cruelly, and short sightedly, just throwing them into the hell of prison. Of course the States would never even consider learning from countries that manage to pretty much get it right....

[Bastet]

8 minutes ago, Grrarrggh said:

Of course the States would never even consider learning from countries that manage to pretty much get it right....

Nope, we'll just keep feeding the prison industrial complex, increasingly privatized, rather than actually addressing the root problems in order to reduce incarceration. 

Like so many at the time, I watched The Jeffersons, but I was a kid and don't remember a whole lot beyond the fantastic theme song and a few key moments; Norman Lear shows being both time capsules and timeless commentaries, I should revisit it.  I just checked to see if it's airing/streaming on anything I get, and the whole series is on Prime (to which I have access via friend's account), so I'll add it to my list.

[Bethany]

The discussion about The Jeffersons reminds my of an incident that happened on Facts of Life that always bothers me.  Tootie runs away and meets a girl who tries to recruit her into a life of prostitution.  Of course Mrs Garret arrives to save Tootie but they drive away leaving the other girl behind.  I guess the point was you can't save everyone and that's real, of course, but it was so jarring on a sitcom that they would end it that way.

[Spartan Girl]

The thing that irks me most about the whole Lorelei/Luke/Christopher debacle in the finale season of Gilmore Girls was how—after calling off the wedding when Luke wouldn’t immediately cave to her ultimatum then immediately jumping into the sack with Christopher—Lorelei had the audacity to act all heartbroken when Luke resignedly told her that they didn’t belong together.

Uh, YOU were the one that convinced him that. What did you expect, that he’d keep trying to fight for you after you blew him off?! That is Topanga-calling-off-the-wedding-then-pouting-when-Corey-asks-out-another-girl-level of bullshit.

[Mabinogia]

15 hours ago, Bastet said:

Like so many at the time, I watched The Jeffersons, but I was a kid and don't remember a whole lot beyond the fantastic theme song and a few key moments

I haven't watched it in decades and can still sing the whole song. 

 

7 hours ago, Elizabeth Anne said:

Tootie runs away and meets a girl who tries to recruit her into a life of prostitution.  Of course Mrs Garret arrives to save Tootie but they drive away leaving the other girl behind.  I guess the point was you can't save everyone and that's real, of course, but it was so jarring on a sitcom that they would end it that way.

I guess they took their name, Facts of Life, literally. It is a sad fact of life but more true than if they'd managed to save the other girl as well. I don't remember that ep, though I loved the show. I'm kind of glad I don't because that is the kind of storyline that usually haunts me. 

[Bastet]

Just now, Mabinogia said:

I guess they took their name, Facts of Life, literally. It is a sad fact of life but more true than if they'd managed to save the other girl as well.

I either never saw it or don't remember it (I only watched the show sporadically), but it sounds like a sadly accurate reflection of attitudes at the time (not as if they're gone now, but at least many people are better informed), not thinking of that girl as a victim of sex trafficking.  They probably thought of her as making a shitty yet autonomous choice in the first place, and specifically in trying to recruit Tootie, rather than understanding she was under her trafficker's control.

[Blergh]

19 hours ago, Grrarrggh said:

This is so on point and timely. The USA is dealing with this right now. How deal with children and young people who commit crimes, keeping the rest of society safe, while also not cruelly, and short sightedly, just throwing them into the hell of prison. Of course the States would never even consider learning from countries that manage to pretty much get it right....

OK, I fully agree that it's outrageous that there are  indivduals who are innocent, framed and/or railroaded who have the wheels of justice unjustly  grind against them and I FULLY support efforts to exonerate those individuals.

However, in this episode no one even  claimed that Ronnie and his gang were innocent of the (by no means victimless) crimes  of vandalism and robbery . Moreover, since  Ronnie was a contemporary of Lionel, that means he was  a legal adult (instead of a teen) when he deliberately vandalized and robbed his onetime friend's father's van of its valuables! It seems Charles as well as Ronnie were more upset at the idea that George was going to press charges than at the fact that Ronnie and his gang  had robbed George of his commodities after making a sincere effort to try to help them !  If you were the one robbed of your valuables by known entities, would you truly believe that they didn't deserve to have charges meted against them because you dislike the system- regardless of their guilt and regardless of them having spurned your efforts to try to inspire them to improve their own lives?

[Grrarrggh]

14 minutes ago, Blergh said:

OK, I fully agree that it's outrageous that there are  indivduals who are innocent, framed and/or railroaded who have the wheels of justice unjustly  grind against them and I FULLY support efforts to exonerate those individuals.

However, in this episode no one even  claimed that Ronnie and his gang were innocent of the (by no means victimless) crimes  of vandalism and robbery . Moreover, since  Ronnie was a contemporary of Lionel, that means he was  a legal adult (instead of a teen) when he deliberately vandalized and robbed his onetime friend's father's van of its valuables! It seems Charles as well as Ronnie were more upset at the idea that George was going to press charges than at the fact that Ronnie and his gang  had robbed George of his commodities after making a sincere effort to try to help them !  If you were the one robbed of your valuables by known entities, would you truly believe that they didn't deserve to have charges meted against them because you dislike the system- regardless of their guilt and regardless of them having spurned your efforts to try to inspire them to improve their own lives?

Legalities don't mean much to the brain. Nor has straight punishment been proven to be beneficial. While I feel for George and real people in his position, how does throwing away a young life, who has most likely not had a chance to mature or live in a good environment, help society at all? All that happens is in how many years Ronnie and his 'gang' will be harder and more likely to commit more serious crimes. 

[Blergh]

Just now, Grrarrggh said:

Legalities don't mean much to the brain. Nor has straight punishment been proven to be beneficial. While I feel for George and real people in his position, how does throwing away a young life, who has most likely not had a chance to mature or live in a good environment, help society at all? All that happens is in how many years Ronnie and his 'gang' will be harder and more likely to commit more serious crimes. 

Looks we'll have to agree to disagree about who got denied justice in that episode but I appreciate your input.

[magicdog]

6 hours ago, Mabinogia said:

I guess they took their name, Facts of Life, literally. It is a sad fact of life but more true than if they'd managed to save the other girl as well.

 

6 hours ago, Bastet said:

it sounds like a sadly accurate reflection of attitudes at the time (not as if they're gone now, but at least many people are better informed), not thinking of that girl as a victim of sex trafficking.  They probably thought of her as making a shitty yet autonomous choice in the first place, and specifically in trying to recruit Tootie, rather than understanding she was under her trafficker's control.

I remember the episode fairly well since I watched it when it first aired.  

My parents both warned me about stuff like this because it could happen if one wasn't careful.  Tootie did a stupid thing by running away on her own to a city she didn't know how to handle herself in.  That's one of the reasons runaways end up often in a worse place than the one they'd left.

I was sad that the girl Tootie met wasn't saved but I wouldn't doubt it if Tootie had asked her to come with, that she'd have refused.  Likely because she was used to that lifestyle and was afraid of her pimp (they don't like it when their property goes walking off free and have been known to stalk them and drag them back).  She also would have had to go through detox since she was likely addicted to heroin - to keep her under her pimp's control.  I don't think it was necessarily a reflection of the times, than reality.

[magicdog]

Caught another episode of Highway to Heaven in which I am still trying to understand what the point was:

In "It's a Dog's Life" (1989), Jonathan and Mark are arguing a bit over a few things, when a guy tried to rob them.  Jonathan uses his powers to turn the gun into a water pistol.  The criminal freaks out and runs.  Later, Mark is annoyed that he's weak and helpless compared to Jonathan and maybe he should be turned into a sog or something.  Suddenly, a dog appears and Jonathan is gone.  Mark comes to the conclusion that God turned Jonathan into a dog and now they have to continue with their next assignment.  Somehow he gets it in his head that God gave Jonathan's powers to him temporarily.

They find a young boy who has a habit of running away.  We eventually learn his parents are divorced (aptly described by Mark as a cross between Isadora Duncan and Auntie Mame) and she has been keeping him away from his dad (the usual hijinks of mom making excuses for dad not being able to see the kid) so dad has given up trying.  Mark and the dog befriend the boy and find the dad and try to set things right and get the mother to let the boy stay with dad for a while.  Surprisingly, she agrees.  The dog chooses to stay with the boy and dad, so Mark assumes this is the end of their partnership and he leaves. 

Then while headed back to his hotel room, there is a suicidal man on a ledge and he decides to try to get him down safely.  He climbs on the ledge, when Jonathan (in human form) apears in a window asking what Mark was doing on the ledge.  Shocked, Mark asks what happened, and he relied that he was on another assignment all this time and the dog really was just a dog.  Then Mark asks if that means he doesn't have [Jonathan's powers].  Jonathan replies no.  Suddenly, we see Mark lose his balance and fall off the ledge - only to wake up and find out it was all a dream!!  GAH!

What was the point of the episode?  Give Mark another heart attack??  Was the boy and his problem even real?  Why go through all that?  Plus it used to annoy me that Mark was supposed to have been an ex-cop, so he should have a bit more knowledge on how to handle certain situations, instead he acts like an untrained civilian.  

This was the second to last episode to air before it being cancelled and Victor French (Mark) passing away in June of 1989

[Bastet]

13 minutes ago, magicdog said:

This was the second to last episode to air before it being cancelled

Then I think you have your answer -- they were out of good ideas, so wrote an "it was all a dream" episode.

[Blergh]

On 3/2/2023 at 11:22 PM, magicdog said:

 

I remember the episode fairly well since I watched it when it first aired.  

My parents both warned me about stuff like this because it could happen if one wasn't careful.  Tootie did a stupid thing by running away on her own to a city she didn't know how to handle herself in.  That's one of the reasons runaways end up often in a worse place than the one they'd left.

I was sad that the girl Tootie met wasn't saved but I wouldn't doubt it if Tootie had asked her to come with, that she'd have refused.  Likely because she was used to that lifestyle and was afraid of her pimp (they don't like it when their property goes walking off free and have been known to stalk them and drag them back).  She also would have had to go through detox since she was likely addicted to heroin - to keep her under her pimp's control.  I don't think it was necessarily a reflection of the times, than reality.

I'm not sure whether Christie was addicted but she sure seemed intimidated by the pimp (and let's not overlook that the audience [but not Tootie] heard her attempt to talk the pimp out of 'inviting' Tootie over to 'their' place before the pimp  told Christie that she,too, had only supposed to have been in NYC on a day trip before they had met!). I wonder if the pimp may have overtly threatened Christie's loved ones back home. ..or even if Christie didn't think she,'d ever be able to make up SO much missed school work. Of course, it was only when the waitress told Tootie to avoid the pimp that Tootie put 2 and 2 together (and, AFAIC, neither of them told Mrs. G. .much less attempted to notify any authorities about the pimp). Alas, the show almost seemed to say that somehow Christie merited getting stuck in this wretched situation due to not having been cautious at the bus station (and Tootie got close to have been  ensnared into it). Still, it needs to be said  that both Charlie's Angels and Fantasy Island DID have episodes in which the authorities DID get notified about the pimps who got promptly arrested (and neither one of those shows were supposed to give guidance to young viewers) so I found it infuriating that no attempt was made to blow the whistle on the pimp despite the fact that (even then) there WERE laws against corrupting minors, involuntary imprisonment, slavery and human trafficking.  I wonder if the Facts of Life producers may have thought that some potential viewers may have tried to blame Christie for throwing away the pimp's life had she somehow opted to blow the whistle and press charges  rather than consider that the pimp had thrown away his OWN life for having knowingly committed crimes against others despite the risk of legal punishment.

[magicdog]

6 hours ago, Blergh said:

I wonder if the pimp may have overtly threatened Christie's loved ones back home. ..or even if Christie didn't think she,'d ever be able to make up SO much missed school work.

More than likely Christie was pressured at the time she was recruited that the pimp "owned her" and she "owed" him for all he did for her (giving her clothes, a place to stay, etc. - for a price).  Often runaways come from lousy backgrounds so Christie may not have felt that she had better options than what she had.

 

6 hours ago, Blergh said:

he show almost seemed to say that somehow Christie merited getting stuck in this wretched situation due to not having been cautious at the bus station (and Tootie got close to have been  ensnared into it).

I don't think that's the case - it seemed to me that it was a case that not everyone has a happy ending and that calling the cops on the pimp wouldn't have changed much.  The pimp might have been busted but bailed out quickly (they tend to have lawyers on standby) and he would have been back in business in no time.  Christie might have turned up as a runaway/missing child who might be returned to her previous home, but it's a toss up.  It's too easy for people to fall through the cracks.

IMO, the episode just shows that Tootie was lucky she had people looking out for her, while Christie didn't.  But for the grace of God go I.....

[Zella]

8 hours ago, magicdog said:

Christie might have turned up as a runaway/missing child who might be returned to her previous home, but it's a toss up.

And tying in with what you said about some runaways coming from lousy backgrounds, going back home may have meant just sending her back to some situation that was just as awful in its own way, unfortunately. 

[proserpina65]

On 3/2/2023 at 9:36 PM, Grrarrggh said:

Legalities don't mean much to the brain. Nor has straight punishment been proven to be beneficial. While I feel for George and real people in his position, how does throwing away a young life, who has most likely not had a chance to mature or live in a good environment, help society at all? All that happens is in how many years Ronnie and his 'gang' will be harder and more likely to commit more serious crimes. 

Sorry, but this just excuses committing crime.  Punishment should be on a sliding scale based on youth and how serious the crime is, but it shouldn't be ignored.  Because ignoring it doesn't make crime go away either.  George should've called the police.