S04.E07: Travel Agents

[Domestic Assassin]

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In truth, I wonder why Martha didn't try to make a deal.  She does have something to bargain - full cooperation and help identifying the several illegals she's met, in exchange for immunity and a job in Omaha.  I don't see the FBI being all that excited about putting her on trial, and they might get a huge bonanza to offset their inexcusable lapse in security.  I bet they'd make that deal. 

She could bargain for a reduced sentence, but there's no way they would just drop all charges and set her up in a new job. 

[Chaos Theory]

42 minutes ago, Moose Andsquirrel said:

She could bargain for a reduced sentence, but there's no way they would just drop all charges and set her up in a new job. 

If she helped them catch "the illegals" that they have been surching for for four seasons now she might get off with an exceedingly light sentence.   Yes Martha made them look like fools but the FBI would most definetly trade if Martha handed them the Jennings.

[La Tortuga]

Just chiming in to say it has been tickling me for two whole days now that this may well be the very first time I've ever heard Philip tell Elizabeth he loves her, and I've been wondering if it's actually the first time he's even said it to her in 22 years together.

[whiporee]

One thing no one has mentioned is that Martha thought Clark was working for another wing of of the FBI until the pen was found. Until that point, he told her he was investigating the department for the US -- she did not think she was spying, but had been told by someone that there was corruption in the office, and was actually acting in a patriotic fashion, putting the good of the country over protecting her co-workers. Plus, the only thing she did was place the pen and being Clark the recordings. So I think it's harsh to say she chose to be a traitor, because she didn't make that choice until she was in very, very deep. 

[Umbelina]

The minute the FBI had Martha they would get whatever they needed out of her anyway.  She's a wreck.  It would be easy to do.

She's not a lawyer or capable of negotiating anything with the FBI, or even being able to read the fine print on such a document and understand what it really means.  Now she could have taken a chance and just knocked on any criminal lawyer's door and hope she picked a good one.  Still?  She's going to jail.  If she lawyered up, or lucked into a lawyer who would both take her case, and be good at it?  Woo!  Good job, because I really doubt she has much money and that lawyer or firm would be taking on the FBI.  In a treason case.  Imagine the billable hours involved in that, and just where would she get the money to pay for that?  Better Call Saul?  It's like a lawyer or firm taking on Kaiser, they just won't do it because the other side has limitless resources to fight you, unless there is a slam dunk case it just won't happen.  Martha has the opposite of a slam dunk, and no payoff from which to collect their fees at the end.

Frankly, she'd be damn lucky to simply negotiate a cell with a small barred window in the wall.

Her best shot was a lawyer though, to have eyes-on the FBI and insure Martha's rights weren't violated, then maybe try to negotiate.  But by that time, the entire KGB operation there would be wiped clean, her information worthless, except about Philip maybe, but only because he lives across the street from Stan.  If not for that, they'd simply relocate the Jennings to another area, but because of that, the second Martha was talking to the FBI, back to the USSR.

Anyway, too late now.  The KGB has her, and they aren't going to let her run again. 

Edited April 30, 2016 by Umbelina

[sistermagpie]

2 hours ago, La Tortuga said:

Just chiming in to say it has been tickling me for two whole days now that this may well be the very first time I've ever heard Philip tell Elizabeth he loves her, and I've been wondering if it's actually the first time he's even said it to her in 22 years together.

He did say it in S1, I think, after the Irina stuff. And he wrote it to her in a note at the end of S1. She's never said it to him, though.

 

2 hours ago, whiporee said:

So I think it's harsh to say she chose to be a traitor, because she didn't make that choice until she was in very, very deep. 

But it doesn't matter when she made the choice. She wasn't a traitor when she planted the pen and thought it was for the CIA, but she kept helping Clark after she knew he didn't work for the US Government. And she didn't just get threatened into it, she wanted to move forward with her marriage and that was part of it.

She's definitely a victim but there's not really any way she's not a traitor. Passing security reports to help your husband is being a traitor. She's not even like Viola whose child was threatened with death.

[izabella]

I agree that Martha betrayed her country and is a traitor.  She did make choices along the way.  At any point, she could have walked into Gaad's office and told him everything, but she never did.  Martha betrayed her country for the love of a man.  Gaad was exactly right - she was that lonely.

The kids with the beer watching tv at Stan's house was hilarious.  I wonder if the drinking age was still 18 back then in Virginia. 

[magemaud]

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Woodley Park isn't really a "park", it's a neighborhood that borders on Rock Creek Park, so plausibly Martha was walking from Woodley Park (where she could have gotten by Metro) into a nearby section of Rock Creek Park. Not sure why "Woodley Park" had to be mentioned when they could have stuck with Rock Creek Park (it's huge) all along.

Thanks, RedHawk, I was just going to post the same info. But what really bothered me was that it was obviously NOT shot in Rock Creek Park or anywhere in DC at all. I looked it up and found the bridge scene was shot in Croton Gorge Park in Cortlandt, NEW YORK. 

[whiporee]

12 minutes ago, sistermagpie said:

She's definitely a victim but there's not really any way she's not a traitor. Passing security reports to help your husband is being a traitor.

Yeah, you're probably right. I was referring to the earlier planting and recording, but the post-reveal stuff definitely has treason written all over it. 

[Cardie]

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I looked it up and found the bridge scene was shot in Croton Gorge Park in Cortlandt, NEW YORK. 

The whole series is shot in New York.  If you ever see some DC landmarks, they've just been put in as special effects.

[BW Manilowe]

9 hours ago, Umbelina said:

kay1864 I just hit escape when that happens, because yeah, you can't delete once it's there.

I just thought of another thing the KGB can ask Martha about, other lonely women in that office. 

I don't know if this will work for completely discarding erroneous posts, but I just screwed up & put an extra quote box in the middle of a quote in a post in another forum; hitting that underlined T with the x next to it, right next to the eye icon at the top of the posting box (at the far right end) removed the extra quote box from where I put it in the other post. Might be worth a try in similar situations.

[scartact]

You know what, for some reason I initially didn't really think about how Philip being truthful to Martha that he's not going with her is also at the risk of Martha freaking out again and trying to run, which would also mean he would inevitably have to take care of it. I do still think that the one thing that would probably truly put her over the edge is finding out that Clark's love for her is ultimately a fabrication, and part of me hopes it never comes to that. Whether or not Martha gets on the plane, I just would absolutely hate to see her total devastation in response to that. Especially given that Philip played Clark as not wanting kids or a family with her, only to find out that he's deeply invested in and loyal to his family.

 

5 hours ago, sistermagpie said:

Yeah, while Martha was indeed duped and manipulated, I think it's also important that every time she got more information she made the same choice. Granted she was already deeper in at each level, but that was partly due to her choice as well. When she got the clearest truth of Clark actually saying out loud she was working for the KGB (a truth she didn't want to hear but surely knew was likely--and honestly, spying for someone else isn't okay either) she still said it was okay. 

The one truth she has as yet never heard is the one that probably would have put her off--the truth that Clark not only does love her as much as she loves him, but is deeply in love with someone else and has a family and kids that are his priority. Up until the end she was far more focused on her romance than anything else. She's been very consistently tragic throughout. Had Clark been real she'd have been Bonnie to his Clyde, the anti-heroine of an espionage thriller. What makes her Poor Martha is that she's not Bonnie.

I think this is what kills me most about Martha's entire arc since the beginning of the show. It was always destined to be tragic in some way. In all possible endings, there is no way whatsoever I could ever envision one where Philip and Martha wind up with one another (however way this would be). Sometimes when I read or listen to a few other podcasts I kind of think people underestimate just how much Philip loves Elizabeth, especially because it is overshadowed by how hard he's working to save Martha. Of course this entire season it was also kind of telegraphed into the performances that Philip's actions could easily be misread by someone like Elizabeth, and her insecurities amplify our own perspective of uncertainty regarding Philip's actions (well, at least they did for me).

Honestly, I love how sometimes there's enough ambiguity in these characters' actions that they can be interpreted in a lot of different, yet very valid, ways.

[Dev F]

29 minutes ago, Cardie said:

The whole series is shot in New York.  If you ever see some DC landmarks, they've just been put in as special effects.

Yep, and they're actually pretty good about remaining true to the real-life locations as much as possible, even if their locations don't exactly match up. For instance, it's never said on screen, but the Afghan Group targets from last season live in Frederick, Maryland, a city where I have some family and visited quite a bit in the early 1980s. The New York locations aren't a perfect visual match -- there are too many trees, not enough sidewalks -- but the basic feel of the place is right, and when Philip and Elizabeth review street names during their low-speed car chase with the FBI, they're tracing an actual path through the city. At one point Kimmy and her friends even go to a park with a little bandshell, which I think is supposed to be a specific location in downtown Frederick (Baker Park).

Edited April 30, 2016 by Dev F

[Dowel Jones]

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If she lawyered up, or lucked into a lawyer who would both take her case, and be good at it? 

William Kunstler was still active at that time.  He might have done it just for altruistic and/or pr reasons.

 

ETA:  Interesting that, just after Gaad orders up a sketch of Clark, there appears an ad for Microsoft featuring a real life sketch artist.  Looks like a cool program, though.

Edited April 30, 2016 by Dowel Jones
Add material.

[AliShibaz]

Recently, I've been watching some of Martha's earliest scenes back in Season One and comparing them to her performance in the recent two episodes.

It's been really fascinating. In many cases, it's like watching her for the very first time. I'd like to recommend to everyone you might enjoy watching S1 E6 at around the two minute mark. That scene probably shows the truest representation as to how Martha really feels about Clarke. It would be as if Charlize Theron dropped in on me one day and asked me if I'd like to go out for a cup of coffee. After I peeled myself off the celing, I would probably know just how Martha feels about Clarke.

[txhorns79]

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I liked watching the FBI do their thing, and the emotions between Philip, Elizabeth, and Martha play out.  She deserves more than a quick resolve, and I still don't know what will happen with her.  I liked watching Oleg as well, and the KGB scramble.  I am positive there will be consequences for Philip, for Gabe, for Gaad, and obviously, no matter which way it plays out, for Martha.  I can't wait.

I find the plotline fascinating, and can't wait to see what comes next.  I sympathize heavily with Martha, but understand why others might not.  In some ways, she's a victim, in other ways she is not.  She was in way too deep when she found out the truth, but she also kept going.  She isn't a bad person, but she's ruined a number of lives with her actions.  Heck, I can't even imagine the panic her parents must be feeling at getting that call from her. 

[henripootel]

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If she helped them catch "the illegals" that they have been surching for for four seasons now she might get off with an exceedingly light sentence.   Yes Martha made them look like fools but the FBI would most definetly trade if Martha handed them the Jennings.

Add this, nobody is ever gonna know about Martha because the FBI doesn't want anyone else to know.  It'd probably help if she turned herself in (or, even better, negotiated her own surrender), but I'm sure they'd want to keep this as quiet as possible.  Gaad's finished, but like as not he'll be allowed to quietly retire, in some good form if Martha's information leads them to swat up a network of illegals.  Heck, Gaad might even get a medal out of this, even though his career is seriously over.  But they'll pay Martha just to keep quiet.  She isn't Nina and we're not the Russians. 

For what it's worth, the Russians will also keep Martha quiet if they get her home.  She isn't a fighter pilot who defected with a plane, just a low-level asset who got caught.  And this isn't 1950, so no walking Martha in front of the cameras for PR value.  Besides, they won't want to draw attention to their illegals network, even though everybody knows about it, there's just no value in hyping it up.  Even money says the KGB will eventually ask if it's okay for Martha to contact her parents, and they'll probably be given tacit permission to do so.  Espionage is a funny business.

[Midnight Cheese]

I was really unsettled by the entire episode, but thought the doom that Gaad quietly described was absolutely devastating.  I know Martha didn't set out to loop a noose around his neck or her own, but damn.

Fantastic episode, fantastic season.  I agree with so many opinions here.  I do think/feel that were Philip allowed to be Philip and not Philip/Clark, and were he not a father, indeed he might run away with Martha.  I have been more of a Philizabeth fan than some across the web since season 1, but there is something repellent and infuriating about Elizabeth's jealousy of Martha, and the kidney-punch she gave her.  Elizabeth was slightly mortified and angry when she saw how beautiful Annalise was, but whatever her own deep psychological issues, she's been part of the absolutely soul-destroying con against Martha from jump.  I feel nothing for Elizabeth with respect to this element of their spycraft, certainly no pity whatsoever. 

[sistermagpie]

2 minutes ago, Midnight Cheese said:

I do think/feel that were Philip allowed to be Philip and not Philip/Clark, and were he not a father, indeed he might run away with Martha.

Out of guilt? I mean honestly, I've never seen a moment where Philip seemed to enjoy actually being with Martha at all or look forward to time in her presence. I've seen times when he obviously cares about her and feels affection toward her, occasionally he'll use her as a general sounding board, but not in a way that he himself gets anything out of it at all. I think about his scenes with Martha even in contrast to his scenes with Sandra Beeman and there's a huge difference even there. Like, how can we even talk about him being allowed to be Philip with Martha when he never has been? She might not even like Philip like she likes Clark.

To me that's always been the main reason I was surprised at the idea that he could actually want to be with her. They honestly don't seem to click in any way like that. There's understanding there, I think, on his part, but this has never seemed like somebody he'd enjoy hanging out with on any level. As opposed to, like I said, Sandra with whom he's not in love with either, but I think does enjoy hanging out with more than Martha.

[madam magpie]

Yeah, I don't see Phillip as being even remotely in love with Martha and wanting to run off with her. I see why Elizabeth would be afraid of that, and I thought her saying she'd understand if he chose Martha was a super insecure "if you love someone, set him free" moment. But to me, Martha has seemed like a lot of work and stress for Phillip. He feels an obligation to her as a human being whose life he's ruined, and there's a really deep sense of loyalty in Phillip that can look like love, but he'd never pick her. He's so deeply in love with Elizabeth and their kids and who they are as a couple, and I think she feels the same way. She's just much, much less able to express how she feels about anything, except maybe her job. She can show it with action, though, which I think she did when she kissed him and told him to stay with Martha. She knows who Phillip really is and understands that deep loyalty and responsibility in him, so giving him a guilt-free pass to put his attention on the situation with Martha was very loving, I think.

Edited April 30, 2016 by madam magpie

[Midnight Cheese]

57 minutes ago, sistermagpie said:

Out of guilt? I mean honestly, I've never seen a moment where Philip seemed to enjoy actually being with Martha at all or look forward to time in her presence. I've seen times when he obviously cares about her and feels affection toward her, occasionally he'll use her as a general sounding board, but not in a way that he himself gets anything out of it at all. I think about his scenes with Martha even in contrast to his scenes with Sandra Beeman and there's a huge difference even there. Like, how can we even talk about him being allowed to be Philip with Martha when he never has been? She might not even like Philip like she likes Clark.

To me that's always been the main reason I was surprised at the idea that he could actually want to be with her. They honestly don't seem to click in any way like that. There's understanding there, I think, on his part, but this has never seemed like somebody he'd enjoy hanging out with on any level. As opposed to, like I said, Sandra with whom he's not in love with either, but I think does enjoy hanging out with more than Martha.

Actually, I think I agree with you thinking of how Philip interacts with Sandra.  I guess maybe I'm thrown by how, on reflection, Philip and Elizabeth seem to have nothing deep between them excepting Paige and Henry.  I'm not explaining it well but season over season, despite things like Philip making sure Elizabeth got to see her dying mother, I just feel like there's very little there at the deepest levels.  I absolutely do not think they are wildly in love, certainly not Elizabeth, and I can see that in other deeply repressed characters elevating loyalty to a different social construct (e.g., those in The Remains of the Day).

Edited April 30, 2016 by Midnight Cheese

[Umbelina]

I don't know if "nobody would ever know about this" though.  Reagan was president, and catching a spy, one of our own, might be considered a coup.  Also, this was post Watergate, our press was pretty strong at the time.  This guy was arrested in 1984 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Anthony_Walker,  He began working for the soviets in 1968, was directly responsible for the attack on the USS Pueblo, and had quite a little spy ring going, all for money.  Martha did some damage herself though, including helping the soviets get their hands on potentially dangerous biological weapons, the death of two FBI agents, and internal workings of the FBI director going straight to the KGB.  Anyway, that guy died in prison, 365 yr sentence.  The FBI caught him, supposedly after a Soviet turned over his name.

This isn't a comment about Martha's looks, but I think Philip thinks of her more like a very loyal, trusting dog.  You care about your dog, you want to protect it, you even talk truthfully to your wonderful dog at times, and yes, that is a kind of love.  But, as pointed out, he was almost never Philip or Misha with her, he was, for most of the time, Clark, a roll he was playing.

I can't imagine any way Martha would have the presence of mind to even ask for a lawyer, even after her rights are read to her, she's a mess.  At best, she'd probably end up with a public defender.  By then though?  She would have probably told them everything.  The FBI are trained interrogators, and worse, they are people she knows.  She would fall for the "come on Martha, tell us what you know, we understand how hard this is for you" friendly stuff, and she would fall for a tougher line as well.   I just don't see her being able to stand up to any kind of questioning if the FBI got their hands on her.  At all. 

That whole 3 out of 4 women who were seduced, honey-trapped into spying committing suicide when caught or they found out just won't leave me.  This show does stick close to reality when it can.  Some of those women were also "married" to KGB, some even had children with them.  I need to find out more about this.  That article in the Media thread may site sources for that, it would be an interesting read. 

Men were trapped this way as well, of course.  The ones I remember reading about were in Europe mostly, and "fell in love, began an affair" with very attractive young spies, but were often also married, so the expenses of keeping their true love and real family separate often became the reason for selling information.  So a double team spy effort, the woman seducing the man into near bankruptcy to keep her, and then a friendly guy mentioning he was making bank by just handing over a couple of documents a week.  So then they had the guy both by paying him, and also by possible blackmail (telling the wife.)

[SunnyBeBe]

3 hours ago, txhorns79 said:

I find the plotline fascinating, and can't wait to see what comes next.  I sympathize heavily with Martha, but understand why others might not.  In some ways, she's a victim, in other ways she is not.  She was in way too deep when she found out the truth, but she also kept going.  She isn't a bad person, but she's ruined a number of lives with her actions.  Heck, I can't even imagine the panic her parents must be feeling at getting that call from her. 

I don't really fault Martha at all.  IMO, while she did love Clarke, I think that a certain amount of fear was involved it it.  Initially, she thought she was doing the right thing and helping her country.  It's like brain washing to me.  Our feelings about Patty Hearst have changed for many over the years. 

I agree about her parents.  I don't think they could even in their wildest imagination suspect the truth.  Their worst fears might include a marital separation, loss of an saving account, losing job, etc.   NOT KGB!  Oh my....At least she told them that she loved them.  I have to believe that someday before they die, they'll get a message that she's okay.....even if she's not. 

Edited April 30, 2016 by SunnyBeBe

[Umbelina]

I do fault her. 

Maybe I just don't understand that kind of woman very well.  A woman so in need of "love" that she would do any of this.  I'm just not built that way, and I'd leave a man for much less.  Also, Martha worked for the FBI for at 10 years.  I have absolutely no doubt they had many classes and talks about exactly this kind of danger, the need for full disclosure, the sensitive nature of their jobs, loyalty to the United States and the FBI, properly disposing of sensitive information, the way the KGB operates.

She wasn't some untrained innocent. 

The moment Clark came up with that whole "I'm investigating the FBI internally, you can't tell anyone." she should have checked it out.  Oh hell, she should have flat out said "prove it."  She could have gone to the CIA herself to be sure.  She could have simply said, "I understand darling, but you have to understand that I can't help you with that.  I gave my oath.  We are both loyal Americans, so I know you realize what that means."

She didn't.  She simply allowed herself to be dragged deeper and deeper into betraying her country, and why?  Mind blowing sex, and the promise of love.  A wedding ring.  No kids of course, and we can't go out in public, or socialize with friends, but hey, I'll see you twice a week and orgasms twice a week are better than none, right?

THEN, she realizes who he is, and continues to do it!  She escalates her spying on the FBI, she knew he was an enemy, and even though the magic phrase KGB wasn't used?  She knew.  She told him where agents would be, so he could steal biological weapons.  She knew he killed Gene.  Still, she went on.

Hell, I've broken up with men I loved simply because they bitched too much that I squeezed my toothpaste tube from the middle.  It's my damn toothpaste, I'll squeeze it anywhere I want to.  Maybe that's just me though...

[Fouts]

Umbelina, I remember the John Walker incident well, as we happened to be living in Viriginia in 1984 as a miitary family.  The news was especially devastating to our Navy submarine officer neighbor and friend, who wasn't allowed to even comment on it afterwards.  

Living near Washington DC during that time period, we felt the fear of the Soviet threat, even though my husband was just a dentist.  Once we heard clicks on our base housing phone, and assumed it was some type of random tapping for security purposes.  We didn't particularly like that, but accepted it as part of the job.  

One of my friends, also married to an Air Force dentist, had majored in art in college and had a love of Russian art.  She decided it best, however, not to display any of her Russian art posters on her base housing walls, lest it cause any suspicion.  

[Umbelina]

So it did make the papers @Fouts ?  That was something I was just going to look into, but since you were there, you probably already know.

[Fouts]

Umbelina, absolutely the John Walker case did make the newspapers.  It was all over the TV news nationwide, but especially in our area near Hampton and Norfolk.  People were shocked and felt betrayed.  It caused a sense of fear, especially in the military communities. 

Watching it on the TV news, I also remember thinking that John Walker looked somewhat familiar to me.  I've not been able to confirm this, but I remember thinking he might have been the same guy that was featured by a local newscast a few months earlier on their "Local Hero" feature.  I kid you not.  The "local hero" had been working as some type of private investigator for hire and had helped some people out.  Again, I'm not 100% certain it was him, but I wouldn't be surprised if that local news station did whatever it could to put that feature out of sight as quickly as quickly as possible afterwards.  

[sistermagpie]

35 minutes ago, Midnight Cheese said:

I guess maybe I'm thrown by how, on reflection, Philip and Elizabeth seem to have nothing deep between them excepting Paige and Henry.  I'm not explaining it well but season over season, despite things like Philip making sure Elizabeth got to see her dying mother, I just feel like there's very little there at the deepest levels.  I absolutely do not think they are wildly in love, certainly not Elizabeth, and I can see that in other deeply repressed characters elevating loyalty to a different social construct (e.g., those in The Remains of the Day).

Wow, that's so interesting how things can come across so differently. To me they seem really deeply connected. Almost not entirely even romantically. Early on a reviewer referred to them as being like two kittens from the same litter and I've always loved that analogy. Elizabeth, even, sometimes seems almost pathetically longing for this guy. Like when she pushed him away in S1 and was sniffing his laundry while he was gone? I really believe that. Though at the same time I think there's always a sense of her feeling like he's a stranger in some ways so she's kind of scared of him too, and she flips between really wanting him and being in that mode where she thinks she's the better officer of the pair and he needs to be ordered around.

24 minutes ago, Umbelina said:

Maybe I just don't understand that kind of woman very well.  A woman so in need of "love" that she would do any of this.  I'm just not built that way, and I'd leave a man for much less.  Also, Martha worked for the FBI for at 10 years.  I have absolutely no doubt they had many classes and talks about exactly this kind of danger, the need for full disclosure, the sensitive nature of their jobs, loyalty to the United States and the FBI, properly disposing of sensitive information, the way the KGB operates.

Yeah, this is how I tend to see it. I don't dislike Martha as a character or really hold it against her what she did the way you sometimes do with characters that make you mad, but I do feel like she had more reason than most to not do any of this stuff and did it. For me I can even deal with her going with the original "I'm investigating the FBI" game as long as she wasn't telling him anything confidential (even though you're right she should have checked it out) but the second he gave he gave her that pen? That to me was the obvious point where if it were me, even if I'd been suckered up until that moment, I wouldn't have ever continued. I would have agreed to plant the pen, then gone to Gaad the next day, whispered "vault" and explained that I'd believed there was an investigation going on, but hadn't said anything classified, and now this guy was wanting me to plant a bug so let's check him out and if he's the spy he seems to be we'll ambush him at my place.

I especially thought of what you said about how she'd have been trained for this stuff. Sure there's a lot of points on the show where people wouldn't be on the lookout for spies--there's no reason for Stan to suspect the Jennings etc. But people who work in counterespionage don't see this as the stuff of movies. And every step Clark made with her happened after she'd given him reason to expect he could go further. She even had another great opportunity--albeit one that would have probably already meant jailtime for her--when the pen was discovered. Had she said to Walter Taffett "But it's your bug--your department. Clark Westerfeld planted it" and then had that checked out they would have caught Philip that same night. Instead her instinct was to make it about her and Clark and not tell.

But Clark understood all this too. That's why he gave her the pen after the proposal. He knew the effect of intimacy on her. He also tells her about Gene and shows vulnerability and intimacy about that before he gets her to start copying surveillance reports. It's kind of fascinating that iirc, he never even really threatened her or anything. Like some people have tried to add things like "She kept spying because he threatened her parents with death!" or something but he honestly never much went that way. I don't even remember him playing the "If you do this they'll kill ME" card. Though Elizabeth, tellingly, did that.

[Umbelina]

I just thought of something else.

When he told me he worked for the CIA, frankly, my first thought would be "Oh HELL!  The CIA will know I'm spying on the FBI!  I'm in danger of arrest here!  The CIA isn't going to like some secretary at the FBI handing over information based on nothing more than this guy's word."  Even if they brought me into the CIA office and told me to do it I don't think I would. 

I mean really, this is the world of spies.  How dumb would you have to be, how desperate?  My radar would be up so fast, and I never worked for the FBI.  But, women did it, so, there is that.

ETA

I wonder if any honey-traps were really used inside of the major spy organizations.  CIA, FBI, KGB, MI5 or MI6, etc.?  I have a feeling they weren't, simply because of the training those people would have.  I can see it more in government contractors, or scientific labs like the one William has infiltrated, or production areas.  From my reading, the spy groups were usually accessed via bribery, blackmail, or ideology.

Does anyone know? 

ETA again, I just found an interesting article about real life honey traps and put it in the "real spy" thread.

Edited April 30, 2016 by Umbelina

[Fouts]

I, too, just thought of something else!  

Thinking about it, I now recall other news sources commenting on the irony of John Walker having been in the local new station's "local heroes" feature.  What a cocky guy he was!  This would have been early 1985, I believe.  (We were there 1984-85) 

People did do crazy and risky stuff back then, on both sides.  

[txhorns79]

Quote

I mean really, this is the world of spies.  How dumb would you have to be, how desperate?  My radar would be up so fast, and I never worked for the FBI.  But, women did it, so, there is that.

I don't know.  Presumably Clark worked Martha hard before he asked her to do anything so by the time he did, she would have trusted and believed him.  It's always easy to say you would never do something, but until the situation presents itself, who knows how anyone would really act?   

[Umbelina]

7 minutes ago, txhorns79 said:

I don't know.  Presumably Clark worked Martha hard before he asked her to do anything so by the time he did, she would have trusted and believed him.  It's always easy to say you would never do something, but until the situation presents itself, who knows how anyone would really act?   

I'm the paranoid type, I know.  ;~)  I'd be extra paranoid if I worked for the FBI.  Also, I don't think I've ever been desperate for love or marriage.  I know there are women out there that are, I can believe Martha's story, but that doesn't mean I forgive her for it. 

I love the character and the story, but she's Guilty! Guilty! Guilty! 

[Chaos Theory]

I do understand someone like Martha and how easily she was manipulated.  Alison Wright did some interviews on how the writers didn't come up with Martha's character out of thin air.  There were plenty of women like her that were manipulated by the Russians  and many of them did do time.  She said that they didn't particularly care about going to jail; it was when they got out and found out their boyfriends and husbands hadn't waited for them that they killed themselves.  She also mentioned that she tended to model Martha out of women who married serial killers.  The Green River Killer had a wife who after he was arrested said she didn't hate her husband she hated the man who took him away.  So yes I can feel sorry for Martha; a deeply lonely woman who got manipulated into becoming a traitor.  There is a reason why Philip chose her and it wasn't just because she was Gaad's secretary.   There was something empty inside of her that Philip could fill and then threaten to take away unless she did very bad things for him.   That's why I find Martha probably the most intriguing of all the characters on the show.  She is not a bad person.  Probably the only adult on the show without an agenda but a point can be made for her being the one whose actions caused the most harm.  

Edited April 30, 2016 by Chaos Theory
spelling errors

[curbcrusher]

I think for the first time ever, I watched an episode "live." instead of streaming on DVR. I really enjoyed it, but about 15 minutes after it was over my thought was "I just spent an whole hour of time to get back to were we were five minutes before the last episode ended." In other words, I'm sort of disappointed., a lot of little moves were made here and there, but nothing was resolved and we're right back where we started.

When Martha asked "Jennifer" "Are you sleeping with my husband?" I really wanted the response to be "No, but you are sleeping with mine."

I agree with @Umbelina here:

Quote

How dumb would you have to be, how desperate?  My radar would be up so fast, and I never worked for the FBI.  But, women did it, so, there is that.

For about 18 months in the mid 80's the US Government bestowed a clearance on me and one of the results was that I enjoyed  a constant barrage of warnings and questions about suspicious activity.  Every 2-3 months we had to attend a security briefing where some guy from DC would drone on about the importance of what we were doing and why the Russians (as a side note for an earlier conversation in this thread, I don't remember anyone every saying USSR it was either Russia or the Soviet Union) were interested. There would be warnings about watching out for men or women that you met that want to know about your job and what you do. Report any such activity immediately, yada yada yada, until an hour of your life was gone by. In addition, the security officer for the project was constantly walking around asking people how things were going, have you met any new people, etc. In other words, working in counterintelligence Martha would have been exposed constantly to those kinds of warnings. She knew what she was doing, and she did it because she was emotionally weak.

Saying that, I think that's why Phillip is so invested in Martha. He knows she was an easy mark that he was able to manipulate and exploit because of her loneliness and emotional weakness. It like when you engage in a wagering game requiring motor skills (say darts or pool) with a drunk. You can easily relieve them of $10 -$20 and not feel too guilty, but they are generally willing to let you wipe them out.  That's sort of what happened here, Phillip got way more than he imagined from Martha, but he knows that the tools that he used to do that were wrong, and he can't just abandon her. She is not the love of his life, but he feels bad about the way he manipulated her.

[Umbelina]

17 minutes ago, curbcrusher said:

 

 

I agree with @Umbelina here:

For about 18 months in the mid 80's the US Government bestowed a clearance on me and one of the results was that I enjoyed  a constant barrage of warnings and questions about suspicious activity.  Every 2-3 months we had to attend a security briefing where some guy from DC would drone on about the importance of what we were doing and why the Russians (as a side note for an earlier conversation in this thread, I don't remember anyone every saying USSR it was either Russia or the Soviet Union) were interested. There would be warnings about watching out for men or women that you met that want to know about your job and what you do. Report any such activity immediately, yada yada yada, until an hour of your life was gone by. In addition, the security officer for the project was constantly walking around asking people how things were going, have you met any new people, etc. In other words, working in counterintelligence Martha would have been exposed constantly to those kinds of warnings. She knew what she was doing, and she did it because she was emotionally weak.

 

Thanks for this!

This is why I can't see Martha as an innocent.  She would HAVE to have that level of awareness, possibly even more given her position of complete access to the head of counter intelligence in DC, probably the most important district office in the FBI.

In those articles I just posted in the "real life spy" thread, the CIA was compromised by a honey trap, and a Marine, but really, all males compromised by female spies, Chinese, or Russian. 

I don't care though because Martha's story has been so rich and wonderful, but does it make me less likely to "forgive" her (in this fictional sense of course?)  Nope.  Two agents are dead, their families and friends presumably grieving, and the KGB has biological weapons to use against us.  Screw Martha.

Edited April 30, 2016 by Umbelina

[SunnyBeBe]

I won't judge Martha too harshly.  I mean let's consider General Petraeus...sometimes people use poor judgement.  

I watched this episode twice, but I still am not quite clear on the instructions about the transport and the plane.  In the beginning they used a code name for it and it was called "the Sample."  Were they referring to the rat in the jar or Martha?  I thought Martha, but the more I think about it, the more I am unsure.  

[scartact]

3 hours ago, Midnight Cheese said:

Fantastic episode, fantastic season.  I agree with so many opinions here.  I do think/feel that were Philip allowed to be Philip and not Philip/Clark, and were he not a father, indeed he might run away with Martha.  I have been more of a Philizabeth fan than some across the web since season 1, but there is something repellent and infuriating about Elizabeth's jealousy of Martha, and the kidney-punch she gave her.  Elizabeth was slightly mortified and angry when she saw how beautiful Annalise was, but whatever her own deep psychological issues, she's been part of the absolutely soul-destroying con against Martha from jump.  I feel nothing for Elizabeth with respect to this element of their spycraft, certainly no pity whatsoever. 

2 hours ago, Midnight Cheese said:

Actually, I think I agree with you thinking of how Philip interacts with Sandra.  I guess maybe I'm thrown by how, on reflection, Philip and Elizabeth seem to have nothing deep between them excepting Paige and Henry.  I'm not explaining it well but season over season, despite things like Philip making sure Elizabeth got to see her dying mother, I just feel like there's very little there at the deepest levels.  I absolutely do not think they are wildly in love, certainly not Elizabeth, and I can see that in other deeply repressed characters elevating loyalty to a different social construct (e.g., those in The Remains of the Day).

I had such a knee jerk reaction to this, and maybe it's also because I actually have a lot of empathy for Elizabeth, but I think it's crazy to suggest that save for their kids, there's nothing deep between Elizabeth and Philip.

I loved Elizabeth's jealousy toward Martha because it made her so vulnerable, and it also challenged how much she believes in putting the mission first vs. her personal feelings. Elizabeth has often chosen the mission first in so many ways, yet when she sucker punches Martha, I loved that as much as it may also be her one opportunity to physically release some of her jealousy and even confusion toward this woman who is so unlike her (in fact, Martha unwittingly chooses Clark over her country! It's getting harder to say whether or not Elizabeth would ever do that for Philip, but on some levels, these two are so diametrically opposed to one another), in a lot of ways I really read that scene as this immense kindness for Philip.

Elizabeth could very well kill Martha. She, Philip, and Gabriel have an understanding that if things get even worse, if Martha continues freaking out, then it is within her right to kill her so that they may ultimately protect themselves (and their mission - you can never forget that with Elizabeth). It's something she even confirms with Philip one more time in their car scene before she goes off to look for Martha. Yet, she decides to stop Martha from escalating her freak out so that she can bring her back to the safe house. It's a loaded moment that means a lot of things, but ultimately it's the one time Elizabeth can both protect their mission and protect Philip, even at the expense of her personal and professional betrayal from Philip.

I just really believe these two love each other so much. In fact, it's interesting to me how we often have to watch Elizabeth take those greater strides, from every moment in those earlier seasons where it has to be her who reaches for his hand, she who makes the choice to lie to General Zhukov in the Pilot (and whatever else she says to Gabriel), or however she places her jealousies toward Philip because he has such difficulty in separating his emotional investment.

[Cardie]

3 hours ago, Umbelina said:

we can't go out in public, or socialize with friends, but hey, I'll see you twice a week and orgasms twice a week are better than none, right?

I was surprised when Philip recounted some outings they took together, knew public places Martha liked to go .  I, too, believed that it was all "sex at home" and nothing else.

[Umbelina]

I was surprised he went anywhere with her, even in disguise, I bet that was pretty rare.  I'm not surprised he knew places she liked to go though, he'd have to at least feign interest in her life.

[stagmania]

10 minutes ago, scartact said:

I just really believe these two love each other so much. In fact, it's interesting to me how we often have to watch Elizabeth take those greater strides, from every moment in those earlier seasons where it has to be her who reaches for his hand, she who makes the choice to lie to General Zhukov in the Pilot (and whatever else she says to Gabriel), or however she places her jealousies toward Philip because he has such difficulty in separating his emotional investment.

It always surprises me when people say they don't think Elizabeth really loves Phillip. It's all over her face when she looks at him, and as mentioned above, I think she's shown it in her actions over and over again. I think her characterization as someone who puts her mission first and struggles mightily with expressing emotion throws people off. No, she's not good at telling Phillip how she feels about him verbally, but I really believe she's been trying. Her reaction to EST is a perfect example. Phillip getting caught up in a weird culty movement with a heavy focus on emotion is the kind of thing Elizabeth could easily judge and mock him for, but instead, she tries to understand, and she shows him respect by inviting him to share it with her. She wouldn't bother if she didn't care about him deeply. Ditto her attempts to be sensitive to his feelings for Martha and give him an "out". She wants him to be happy, even if that means being away from her or getting involved with people and things she can't understand. 

I also really like the two kittens from the same litter analogy mentioned above. Phillip and Elizabeth seem to have an understanding between them that I think it would be hard to achieve with anyone else, given how strange their lives and experiences have been, and they've made great strides over the course of the series to start understanding the differences between them as well. They also share a physical connection that's not just about sex. I often think of that tooth extraction scene from last season, the silence and intensity of it and the deep trust it demonstrated between them. To me, their connection has always seemed very deep.

[Chaos Theory]

31 minutes ago, Umbelina said:

I was surprised he went anywhere with her, even in disguise, I bet that was pretty rare.  I'm not surprised he knew places she liked to go though, he'd have to at least feign interest in her life.

There was at least one occasion early on in their relationship where they had dinner out.  Martha commented about how far out of town they had to go and "Clark" that the sneaking around made it more romantic.  I could see Clark taking Martha out on occasions mainly because he had to keep the illusion they were in a real relationship going but it was probably rare and he would be on high alert the whole time; especially if they were close to home.  

[henripootel]

Quote

 This guy was arrested in 1984 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Anthony_Walker, 

I don't think these cases are remotely comparable. John Walker was a fo-real, no-shit traitor, and the scope of his betrayal pretty much precluded playing that one soft.  Martha was a secretary (albeit a highly-placed one) - you really think the FBI trumpeted every time they found out someone at this level got compromised?  There'd certainly be plenty of damage to assess but catching someone like Martha could easily be kept quiet.  God knows how many of these happened for every John Walker, and dollars to donuts very few made the papers.  

Quote

Yeah, I don't see Phillip as being even remotely in love with Martha and wanting to run off with her.

It never even crossed my mind that Philip was in love with Martha, nor that Elizabeth thought so.  I think there was one thing and one thing only that Elizabeth thought might attract Philip: going home to Russia.  She knows Philip has been questioning things for a while, not the least sign of this: that he apparently wouldn't continence the easy, smart solution to the Martha problem, namely a bullet.  If this was more sign that Philip wanted out, now's the time to speak up.  

Quote

Every 2-3 months we had to attend a security briefing where some guy from DC would drone on about the importance of what we were doing and why the Russians (as a side note for an earlier conversation in this thread, I don't remember anyone every saying USSR it was either Russia or the Soviet Union) were interested.

I wasn't even cleared or anywhere near DC, but I got this briefing as well.  I was working for IBM assembling computers, and they gave us a long, rambling talk about what to look out for (hot women interested in geeky us) and where not to go (there were certain bars and whatnot, no kidding).  We all thought it was funny.  First, a little hot russian nookie would easily prize anything from me they wanted, I mean we didn't know a damn thing.  Second, if they wanted an example of the new computer line, all they had to do was buy one.  But such was the concern at the time with the Soviets.

[scartact]

2 hours ago, stagmania said:

They also share a physical connection that's not just about sex. I often think of that tooth extraction scene from last season, the silence and intensity of it and the deep trust it demonstrated between them. To me, their connection has always seemed very deep.

I definitely thought of this moment damn near first when I thought how deep their connection is. To me, that came from such a huge place of love and trust and intimacy with one another, and it was so intense. It also made me think about how many times Philip and Elizabeth may have been caught in moments like this even before they fell in love, how they may have had to take care of each other in that way, yet at one point she didn't love or feel about Philip the way he felt about her. One very small scene I loved in the Pilot was Philip helping Elizabeth do her makeup to cover up her bruises from their fight with Timoshev. That spoke to a real comfort and intimacy they had even then, whether or not they were "real" at that point in time.

But not to stray too far off topic, in some ways I always felt like Elizabeth's jealousy over Martha especially this season is more about her and where she is at at this point in the show and how much her character has changed. I haven't stopped thinking about that final scene with Philip and Elizabeth and just how truly kind and understanding she comes across, even if she's flat out wrong to assume Philip would ever run away with Martha. Just the way he asks her if she's crazy confirms to me how much that truly never was an option for Philip.

Edited April 30, 2016 by scartact
gotta correct my grammar

[sistermagpie]

54 minutes ago, stagmania said:

Phillip and Elizabeth seem to have an understanding between them that I think it would be hard to achieve with anyone else, given how strange their lives and experiences have been, and they've made great strides over the course of the series to start understanding the differences between them as well. They also share a physical connection that's not just about sex. I often think of that tooth extraction scene from last season, the silence and intensity of it and the deep trust it demonstrated between them. To me, their connection has always seemed very deep.

I think one of the biggest changes with Elizabeth's that's happened since the pilot--meaning something that changed starting with the pilot--is that she's gotten better at respecting those differences in Philip that at first she wrote off as inferiority of some kind. I feel like when she first fell in love she saw her indulging of this "softness" in Philip as just that--something she was indulging. But one of the many ways she's been evolving has been to see that this isn't necessarily something that's in conflict with the mission. Like originally I think she might have seen Philip's personality almost as a gender-reversal thing she thinks well, at least this will make him a good parent since she doubts her own abilities there.

But over the seasons she's had things like Philip arguing against telling the Centre that Haig had the nuclear codes, for instance, and I think she's realized that there's times he can be right about things. Elizabeth so often develops by getting what she wants (Philip out of the house, Paige finding out who they are etc.) only to see she doesn't really want them. So I think by this point it's not completely that she loves Philip and therefore allows him to worry over Martha, but that she respects him enough to not see that as a terrible flaw. Or maybe he wants to quit, but it's not because he doesn't care.

It is a huge thing that Elizabeth does not kill Martha in large part for Philip's sake. But it's also important to remember that Philip has explicitly noted that Martha may have to be killed. It's important to him that she be treated well for I think a number of reasons, some of which are professional--as an operative he believes their work should afford some honor to people who have sacrificed for them, and many soldiers would probably feel the same. But he also would understand if Elizabeth had to kill her to protect them and the mission. He left the house in the first place for the mission as well. So this whole ep is more complicated than just two black and white povs that are opposed to each other.

25 minutes ago, henripootel said:

It never even crossed my mind that Philip was in love with Martha, nor that Elizabeth thought so.  I think there was one thing and one thing only that Elizabeth thought might attract Philip: going home to Russia.

Yeah, I think her jealousy wasn't totally about thinking Philip wanted Martha over her, but that Martha had parts of Philip she couldn't have. So really what she was asking was if he could be happy with Martha since Martha also represented retirement back home. They've openly talked about running home--Philip wanting to do that. So it's no shock he wants it. But asking if he'd go with Martha is getting more to the heart of the matter: would he go home without Elizabeth, and basically be satisfied with Martha as substitute.

Elizabeth really probably has no idea why Philip loves her, after all. She may think he would just have loved anyone he was paired with--Zhukov suggested as much when he gave her that talk about loving his dog because he cared for it. Obviously he came to care about Martha by taking care of her. Most people in her life--in fact I think everyone else in her life besides the kids--love her because of her commitment to the cause. But Philip obviously doesn't prioritize that. In fact, her commitment sometimes causes him pain. So I understand her not really understanding his devotion.

On his side I think she didn't love him for so long that he just has to believe she loves him now--iow, if she didn't love him she would say so. But I think he's got his own insecurities there. they just maybe come out as being mentally prepared to be abandoned one day possibly. But his answer to Elizabeth was perfect--his total "Are you crazy?" speaking to years of her confusion about this.

It makes me think also of Paige saying "They're not you--they don't solve things by talking them out." Because it's not just that they're (or at least Philip) isn't a big talker (because Elizabeth sometimes can express herself quiet well) but that they often don't need to talk.

I also think as someone else said that this has a lot to do with where Elizabeth is right now. She's had a lot of scenes where she mentioned what "you want" to Philip without really getting it, but I think that speaks to her starting to consider what he wants in ways she didn't before. When she's looking in the mirror at the end of the ep, is she wondering what he sees in her? Thinking about what she's doing to him? Wanting to give back more? Wondering if she did wrong by how she acted? It's so hard to tell! But the ep definitely didn't decide to show Elizabeth lying in bed peacefully secure that wherever Philip was he was in love with her, despite that declaration.

[Chaos Theory]

Maybe because I always kinda liked Clark and Martha I saw "some" amount of love in their relationship.  Don't get me wrong he was never going to chose her but I don't think the entire relationship was one big con.    I think somewhere it became realish.    I guess a lot of it is just me projecting and wanting Martha to be happy despite everything she did but I do think "Clark" wouldn't have gone so far to protect her just out of guilt and I think that is what Elizabeth saw.  That Martha somewhere along the way became more then just a mark.  

[sistermagpie]

1 minute ago, Chaos Theory said:

 I guess a lot of it is just me projecting and wanting Martha to be happy despite everything she did but I do think "Clark" wouldn't have gone so far to protect her just out of guilt and I think that is what Elizabeth saw.  That Martha somewhere along the way became more then just a mark.  

Oh, I agree. I don't think it's just guilt. I think he saw things in Martha that were exactly what he wanted to protect in the world. I remember, for instance, the time she said she wanted to adopt a child because they had so much and they should share it. I think that really struck him. She's somebody who was lonely, who was loyal to the person she loved, who loved children, who wanted to be there for her husband. I think Martha stood for a lot of things Philip held dear and wished he could even have in himself or have in his life. He may also recognize himself in her.

[Umbelina]

I see Philip and Elizabeth more as comrades in the same Foxhole.  Honestly I think that's created the strongest bond between them, more than love, or sex, or children.  No one gets what they do more than their partner.  In a way, that other couple that was killed by their son got it, but still, not the daily in and outs.

I don't really want a softened or lovesick Elizabeth all that much.  I mean, it's nice to see that side of her on occasion, and the actors have incredible chemistry (obviously) but the last thing I want is another woman giving up all for "love."  After Martha's weakness, having a determined, aware, and skeptical Elizabeth on screen is a relief.  If anything, Philip has played the roll of the weaker sex in that marriage, and I like that.  I wouldn't mind seeing her evolve into someone that isn't a died in the wool "yay KGB!" person though, and that may be coming.

Because I really think Philip's in for a huge smack down, and I would prefer to see a torn Elizabeth eventually side with him over the KGB.  That may be what's coming.  Elizabeth's choice, and if I'm right, and it is?  No matter what she chooses, it will be powerful.

[henripootel]

Quote

Don't get me wrong he was never going to chose her but I don't think the entire relationship was one big con. I think somewhere it became realish.

I think that's one of the awesome things about this show - to be convincing, a fake has to be a bit realish.  It's always been an open question to Elizabeth and Philip - how real are they?  The life they lead, the things they do, the only things they know are real are their kids and their love for them.  After that, I don't know and I'm pretty sure they don't know.  I'm pretty sure Martha wasn't merely a mark either, and that Philip is even fond of her.  'In love' with her though?  Certainly not. Feels the same thing he feels for Elizabeth?  Not remotely.  If he had to choose, I'm sure he'd choose Elizabeth (the kids notwithstanding), but it's not as simple as that, nothing here is. Fascinating show, this. 

[AliShibaz]

3 hours ago, Chaos Theory said:

I do understand someone like Martha and how easily she was manipulated.  Alison Wright did some interviews on how the writers didn't come up with Martha's character out of thin air.  There were plenty of women like her that were manipulated by the Russians  and many of them did do time.  She said that they didn't particularly care about going to jail; it was when they got out and found out their boyfriends and husbands hadn't waited for them that they killed themselves.  She also mentioned that she tended to model Martha out of women who married serial killers.  The Green River Killer had a wife who after he was arrested said she didn't hate her husband she hated the man who took him away.  So yes I can feel sorry for Martha; a deeply lonely woman who got manipulated into becoming a traitor.  There is a reason why Philip chose her and it wasn't just because she was Gaad's secretary.   There was something empty inside of her that Philip could fill and then threaten to take away unless she did very bad things for him.   That's why I find Martha probably the most intriguing of all the characters on the show.  She is not a bad person.  Probably the only adult on the show without an agenda but a point can be made for her being the one whose actions caused the most harm.  

Does the name "Joyce Mitchell" ring a bell? She worked in a very large penetentiary as a seamstress. She was described as a wonderful, kind and caring woman who cared about people and lived to help them.

Long story short ... she helped two murderers escape from the pen and made national headlines and news magazine shows. They did an hour on her on 20/20 or some other show like that. I think it was the NBC version. Here is a news link with her picture. It was said she did this out of "love".

http://www.ndtv.com/world-news/woman-who-helped-united-states-jailbreak-gets-up-to-seven-years-prison-1224036

Very hard story to swallow.

[AliShibaz]

I think many of us may be forgetting certain details about Martha's indoctrination and seduction.

It's easy to sit back at this point and see that she is obviously guilty of treason and clearly deserves to spend a long time in a penitentiary. But remember how this started? Clarke began by telling her he had feelings for her but in his role as a "watchdog" of the FBI, it would be wrong, wrong, wrong for them to cross any boundaries. She understood and agreed. Then slowly he began by telling her that even though it would be wrong, he would still like to spend some time seeing her "socially". She told him, "I agree".

Then, step by step, Clarke ratcheted up the pressure. First they became casual friends. Then serious friends. Then Martha suggested that maybe Clarke could arrange to have "someone else" from his office handle her. Remember that? She did that because she was looking for a way to have a love relationship with Clark without doing anything wrong. Then they became lovers. Martha knew that when she became his lover she was doing something wrong. She accepted that she was doing something wrong. But it was a very minor kind of wrong - and it was Clark's wrong - not hers.

Then slowly but surely - step by step - Clark turned her into a full blown traitor. All in all, it was a really brilliant attack - sublimely clever. The KGB did a masterful job of studying many, many cases. Martha had virtually no chance. My heart goes out to her.

Yes. She is a traitor and she does deserve prison time. But there is so much more to this story. It's so easy to forget how her story started and how it developed. Is there no mercy for Martha? No understanding?

P.S. If you haven't ever gone back and watched some of the early episodes (even as early as Season One), it's like seeing a completely new show. It's really worth doing that. I learn so much and see so much as if I was seeing it for the first time when I watch older episodes.

Edited April 30, 2016 by AliShibaz