TWD Season 7 Anticipation - Evil Cliffhanger from Hell

[slade3]

I would be okay with not seeing the Lucille death so I was disappointed when I read the Gimple interview and he said they would be

pushing boundaries with the gore they plan to show in the first episode of season 7

[paraphrase]. Their argument is that the cliffhanger closes one story, and opening season 7 with the scene is the beginning of a new story. I don't agree with this way of telling this particular story. As I've mentioned before, showing me the victim allows me to think about Rick and the family over the hiatus, to focus on their grief and speculate how they will mourn and what they will do next. Now I'm just worried about the death and thinking about whether I'm willing to watch this scene again. I don't think I'll feel as hurt/crushed/sad over the cast's expressions as I did when I was watching the finale. And that does a disservice to the excellent work the cast put into this scene.

 

Doesn't help that Gimple tweeted a picture of a peanut butter protein bar with the words "submitted without comment". Now people think it's a hint that Michonne was the victim. I didn't see it that way - I just saw it as a hint that the protein bar may come up again in season 7. I hope not. I've decided Rick told Morgan about it to clear up any untruths that may be between them and since Michonne is his partner, he doesn't want any lies between Morgan and Michonne either. If this comes up as a way to start an argument/misunderstanding/trust issue between Rick and Michonne, I'll be annoyed. Especially since I keep saying this is a grownup relationship.

 

I don't like Chris Hardwick at all, but I'll keep TD on my DVR in case Andrew Lincoln makes an appearance on the show next season. The only full episodes I watched were the most recent with Danai Gurira, Melissa McBride and Yvette Nicole Brown. It bothered me that Chris insisted Michonne jumped out of bed naked but Rick covered up a bit. Danai was polite when she said "Really? I don't remember Rick covering up" [paraphrase] and Chris was all "Yes, he did." I absolutely hate when someone who wasn't somewhere insists their version is right to someone who was actually there.

[Scribbles]

My son said what I have basically been saying, we know someone gets killed but do we need to see the deed. We can hear the death blows but would seeing the bat swing down and hit the head of the victim make us like the finale more. I know the show is violent but I don't need or want to see that death on my TV.

I hope they choose to film it by showing flashes of the reactions of each character with the sound as background as opposed to showing the beating.

[jsbt]

I think the best way to handle the gore would be to show it in quick jump cuts like that - but bounce off other characters' reaction shots as well, and the sound will be enough. That may well be the only way they get it past S&P. But it's just not a priority for me at all, unlike apparently a great deal of the general audience. There's enough gore on the show that's plenty fun, I don't have a deep yen to see someone's head get taken apart with a bat.

[mandolin]

I just went back and reread the comic panels of the death. I have no desire to see that on screen. It's bad enough in flat black and white. And I'm not typically bothered by gore on this show.

[lulee]

I just went back and reread the comic panels of the death. I have no desire to see that on screen. It's bad enough in flat black and white. And I'm not typically bothered by gore on this show.

Likewise. I've watched all episodes of this show ( and every episode of Hannibal, for instance), so I'm confident that don't need to see CDB brain matter for that scene to have an impact.

Edited April 16, 2016 by lulee

[The Mighty Peanut]

Somewhere in the video -- it could be near the beginning, but I cannot remember -- he gets into the stuff about TWD's cliffhanger and how he should have let people voice their opinion and so on.  And then at some point he will say that he trusts Gimple with the story.

 

 

Ugh. I do like Chris but can't get behind him on this. I don't believe in the concept of doing an episode in such a way that it appears poorly executed at the time, but will be revealed to be genius down the road if we just trust him.  Also, I don't trust Gimple with the story because he keeps fucking up the story and then saying to trust him with the story. Also, I don't think either Chris or Gimple actually believe this line. The finale got overwhelmingly poor reviews and they're scrambling to justify the cliffhanger.

 

Also

I thought the audio link proved Glenn died but now it seems like Abraham/Eugene are the most popular candidates for the big death--did I miss something?

 

The best summary I've heard to date, courtesy of reddit: The finale was a 90-minute build-up to a 6-month build-up, with 35 minutes of commercials.

Edited April 13, 2016 by The Mighty Peanut

[lulee]

Ugh. I do like Chris but can't get behind him on this. I don't believe in the concept of doing an episode in such a way that it appears poorly executed at the time, but will be revealed to be genius down the road if we just trust him. Also, I don't trust Gimple with the story because he keeps fucking up the story and then saying to trust him with the story. Also, I don't think either Chris or Gimple actually believe this line. The finale got overwhelmingly poor reviews and they're scrambling to justify the cliffhanger.

Also

I thought the audio link proved Glenn died but now it seems like Abraham/Eugene are the most popular candidates for the big death--did I miss something?

The best summary I've heard to date, courtesy of reddit: The finale was a 90-minute build-up to a 6-month build-up, with 35 minutes of commercials.

Peanut, I'm trying to stay spoiler free but

i did come across the "Glenn" audio. However, if we mean the same audio, I mentioned it to a friend who pointed me toward a YouTube video where the TWD vlogger (I forget his name) said that the audio wasn't legit -- it was from when Maggie was up on that platform and Glenn and Enid were trying to rescue her. But take that with a grain of salt

Edited April 13, 2016 by lulee

[SpaghettiTuesdays]

I was assuming they'd show the scene through PTSD flashbacks. If Glenn died, for example, they would be Maggie's flashbacks. I don't think they'll show the deed itself, but like PP said, flash to each other characters' faces. I imagine there will be blood sprayed onto whoever is closest to the victim. I will watch it because I love the characters and I'm highly invested, but it will be horrible. I've watched the finale 6 times and the last ten minutes at least 15 times (my mom and I watch it together and had to analyze everything) and I still feel sick when I hear the last 2 minutes. The crunching sound is awful enough. I think they'll leave that part to the imagine - whatever you think it looks like will be worse than whatever they will show.

[okerry]

I don't care who it is at this point, they missed their shot.  Now it will be anticlimactic.  I mean, who does a cliffhanger where you see someone get killed, everyone in the scene sees who gets killed, but you don't know who it is who got killed because the camera won't show you?  That's not a cliffhanger, that's just withholding information.  A cliffhanger is when you wonder how something is going to turn out, like, you know, did they live or die?  Well we already know - they died!  Stupidest cliffhanger in the history of cliffhangers.

In writing, suspense just means you don't know what's going to happen NEXT. It does not mean you don't know what's happening NOW.

 

In this ECFH (Evil Cliffhanger From Hell) it was set up so that we don't know what's happening NOW and yes, it isn't suspense at all but just withholding information, just as you said. That's why we all hate it. It's not playing fair with the audience. You failed with this one, Show.

[Fellaway]

Huh. I thought all of the men were taken out of the boxcar and brought to the slaughter room but now I am not sure.

 

Have just rewatched that ep, and it was only Rick, Daryl, Glenn and Bob.  There were four other men from another boxcar at the trough, including Sam, who Rick and Carol encountered in an earlier ep.  Those four were all killed.

 

Personally, I didn't mind the cliffhanger (though I do mind having to wait so long for the continuation.)  What I did mind was having otherwise smart characters do stupid things to get them to that lineup in front of Negan.  About the second roadblock I hit, I'd be saying "Sorry, Maggie, we're going back."  But, it was obvious they were riding for a fall, as our group, Rick particularly, has gotten cocky about taking on all comers this season.

 

Add me to those who think it's Abraham.  As others have said, he had that closure with Eugene and hope for his future with Sasha.  Also, after they hit the first roadblock and that one Savior guy was talking about it being someone's last day on Earth, of everything and everyone they could have focused on back in the RV, the camera focused solely on Abraham's reflection in the rearview mirror as he looked at the Saviors.  Of course, I'd be happy to be wrong.  Abraham would not be tops on my list to be the victim.  I do like all in our group to varying degrees and won't be happy whoever it is, but there are levels of unhappy.

 

Count me amongst those, too, who think the Hilltop gang have some 'splaining to do.  Were they really that ignorant about the Saviors' numbers and strength?

Edited April 16, 2016 by Fellaway

[Sighed I]

Like many of you, I am not interested in actually seeing the death up close and personal. I don't watch this show for the gore, and neither want nor need to see a beloved character's head turned into hamburger. I know there are fans out there whose outrage stemmed primarily from being denied the ultraviolence in all its gruesome glory. I admit I find that line of thinking pretty disturbing, and like slade3, it troubles me what Gimple said about the scene. But let's face it, when you're watching a drama set in the ZA, violence comes with the territory, and people watch for a lot of different reasons.

 

 

I would have been fine with seeing the other characters reacting to it, and then someone mentioning the name of who it was who got killed.

 

I would have been fine with hearing the other characters reacting to it and someone screaming a name after it faded to black. There are so many different ways they could've handled it and made it an actual cliffhanger instead of a bait and switch.

Edited April 16, 2016 by Sighed I

[Sighed I]

Count me amongst those, too, who think the Hilltop gang have some 'splaining to do.  Were they really that ignorant about the Saviors' numbers and strength?

 

I talked about this a bit in the episode thread, but my feeling is they probably were ignorant about the Saviors' size and strength. From what we've seen so far, the Hilltop was pretty easy to subdue and keep in line. Even with all the resources the Saviors have amassed, supplies are still hard to come by. Why pull out the big guns when you don't have to? Better to save the ace in their pocket for a group who gets too uppity, like Rick's. Remember that guy who helped Rick draw up the layout of the outpost? He said (paraphrasing), "The Saviors are scary, but they have nothing on you (Rick)." Someone who says that couldn't have known how massive Negan's group was, IMO.

 

That being said, I'm sure they crumpled like aluminum foil the second the Saviors came looking for the group responsible for the carnage. Seeing as they had a hand in it, I wouldn't be surprised if one or more of the Hilltoppers also got the bat for their betrayal.

Edited April 16, 2016 by Sighed I

[Scribbles]

That being said, I'm sure they crumpled like aluminum foil the second the Saviors came looking for the group responsible for the carnage. Seeing as they had a hand in it, I wouldn't be surprised if one or more of the Hilltoppers also got the bat for their betrayal.

I am thinking Gregory went gossipy.  Negan marked Gregory for death, he likely dished all he knew about the ASZ to save his own skin.  Maggie got the better of Gregory, and he didn't come off as someone who would like the idea of a woman standing toe to toe with him.  If he did spill the pintos (might as well invoke an Abeism eh?) then he probably included information about Maggie being pregnant. 

[Sighed I]

I am thinking Gregory went gossipy.  Negan marked Gregory for death, he likely dished all he knew about the ASZ to save his own skin.  Maggie got the better of Gregory, and he didn't come off as someone who would like the idea of a woman standing toe to toe with him.  If he did spill the pintos (might as well invoke an Abeism eh?) then he probably included information about Maggie being pregnant. 

 

I totally agree. That smarmy weasel would throw his own mother under the bus. Gregory styles himself as superior-than-thou, but in this case I wouldn't be surprised if he offered up CDB before the first threat was even issued. Not that I can really blame the guy--it's not like Rick's group were long-standing allies. Still, he's so much fun to hate; Xander Berkeley really does play him to perfection.

[Nashville]

Count me amongst those, too, who think the Hilltop gang have some 'splaining to do.  Were they really that ignorant about the Saviors' numbers and strength?

 

 

I talked about this a bit in the episode thread, but my feeling is they probably were ignorant about the Saviors' size and strength.

 

I'd second that.  I just went back and rewatched "Knots Untie" to refresh myself on some of the details.  During the conversation in which Jesus got CDB up to speed on Hilltop's history with Negan:

• Rick: "Well, how many people does Negan have?"  Jesus: "We don't know.  We've seen groups as big as twenty."
• it was Daryl who originally proposed CDB take out Negan in return for supplies from Hilltop.  Daryl thought the Saviors didn't consist of much more than the 20 Jesus mentioned, and were chiseling Hilltop by evoking a "boogeyman" (Daryl's word) spectre image of many more.  Subsequent events would seem to indicate Daryl was mistaken.

 

 

Remember that guy who helped Rick draw up the layout of the outpost? He said (paraphrasing), "The Saviors are scary, but they have nothing on you (Rick)." Someone who says that couldn't have known how massive Negan's group was, IMO.

 

I was of the impression this was more a commentary on the comparative scariness of the two groups, rather than the comparative size.  Bloody Whut Rick scared the shit outta the Hilltoppers.

 

[Sighed I]

 I was of the impression this was more a commentary on the comparative scariness of the two groups, rather than the comparative size. 

 

I agree. I interpreted it the same way (but failed to mention it; sometimes I forget people can't read my mind ;). I also suspect if he had known the comparative size of the two groups, he might not have concluded Rick's was scarier quite so readily.

 

 

Bloody Whut Rick scared the shit outta the Hilltoppers.

 

This is priceless. LOL!

[slade3]

I posted this in the media thread, but I wanted to post it here too, in case it ignites more season 7 discussion.

 

Tyler James Williams stopped by Entertainment Weekly radio and discussed the finale:

http://www.ew.com/article/2016/04/18/walking-dead-tyler-james-williams-negan-finale

 

He said something others have said here a few times:

 

“Oh, yeah, of course,” he says. “We all still speak and they kind of keep me up to date and stuff on what’s going on and all of that. … You have to understand [showrunner Scott M. Gimple] knows everything seasons and seasons out, so people knew, but we can’t say anything. No one can say anything. So it’s actually better to say that we don’t know.”

 

Someone on another forum thinks this points to proof that Glenn is the victim and that Tyler James Williams was there for the death scene as Noah, but others have pointed out that Tyler is good friends with Christian and Alanna and was probably invited to the goodbye dinner. (I'm choosing to go with the latter.)

 

Still seems weird that they'd lie about it. What's the big deal if we know they already filmed the scene? Also seems weirder that no one seems to be on the same page. Of course Tyler doesn't work on the show anymore, but some of the other cast members seem to be contradicting each other. I'm not following the who-said-what closely, so I'm not even sure if the stuff I've read is accurate. But this article states that Norman Reedus said he knows on The Today Show, while Chandler Riggs tweeted he doesn't know, and Greg Nicotero said he doesn't know if the victim knows. And I read an interview with Andrew Lincoln that said the cast made a pact not to discuss it.

 

I wonder if anyone will be annoyed with Tyler for doing that interview.

[Sighed I]

I posted this in the media thread, but I wanted to post it here too, in case it ignites more season 7 discussion.

 

Tyler James Williams stopped by Entertainment Weekly radio and discussed the finale:

http://www.ew.com/article/2016/04/18/walking-dead-tyler-james-williams-negan-finale

 

He said something others have said here a few times:

 

Someone on another forum thinks this points to proof that Glenn is the victim and that Tyler James Williams was there for the death scene as Noah, but others have pointed out that Tyler is good friends with Christian and Alanna and was probably invited to the goodbye dinner. (I'm choosing to go with the latter.)

 

Still seems weird that they'd lie about it. What's the big deal if we know they already filmed the scene? Also seems weirder that no one seems to be on the same page. Of course Tyler doesn't work on the show anymore, but some of the other cast members seem to be contradicting each other. I'm not following the who-said-what closely, so I'm not even sure if the stuff I've read is accurate. But this article states that Norman Reedus said he knows on The Today Show, while Chandler Riggs tweeted he doesn't know, and Greg Nicotero said he doesn't know if the victim knows. And I read an interview with Andrew Lincoln that said the cast made a pact not to discuss it.

 

I wonder if anyone will be annoyed with Tyler for doing that interview.

 

There was also the suggestive Tweet by Michael Cudlitz which he deleted shortly after it blew up on Twitter.

 

One thing I read in a Scott Gimple interview (Vanity Fair, maybe?) was that they were going to do what they could to keep the truth from getting out. Who knows, maybe all this contradiction is part of the subterfuge.

 

My feeling is Andrew Lincoln is telling the truth in the sense that they agreed not to discuss/hint at who it actually was once they knew for sure, in respect for that person and to stem some of the constant questions of who is it. They also know people will pester them anyway. I wouldn't be surprised if this pact has an addendum: say nothing of the truth, but if all else fails throw them off the trail.

Edited April 19, 2016 by Sighed I

[shanndee]

DOBIAN, ON 06 APR 2016 - 9:40 PM, SAID:
I don't care who it is at this point, they missed their shot.  Now it will be anticlimactic.  I mean, who does a cliffhanger where you see someone get killed, everyone in the scene sees who gets killed, but you don't know who it is who got killed because the camera won't show you?  That's not a cliffhanger, that's just withholding information.  A cliffhanger is when you wonder how something is going to turn out, like, you know, did they live or die?  Well we already know - they died!  Stupidest cliffhanger in the history of cliffhangers.

 

In writing, suspense just means you don't know what's going to happen NEXT. It does not mean you don't know what's happening NOW.

 

In this ECFH (Evil Cliffhanger From Hell) it was set up so that we don't know what's happening NOW and yes, it isn't suspense at all but just withholding information, just as you said. That's why we all hate it. It's not playing fair with the audience. You failed with this one, Show.

 

Yes to all of this. A lot of good will that I had for this show is gone. Up to this point I was more than happy to hand-wave all plot holes and inconsistencies. Now...not so much.

 

I think the worst part for me is that all this poor decision making by TPTB have made me not care. I don't care who was killed, I don't care which characters it affects, I don't even care when the show returns.

 

This show was always must see TV for me. It was one of the few things that I actually watched live. It is inconceivable to me that Gimple and Co. could make me not care.

 

Ugh. I'm not sure if I should go re-watch S1 to make myself feel better, or if it will just make my dis-satisfaction worse...

[slade3]

I just saw a tumblr post predicting a season 7 scene about Michonne's son by specifically discussing the end scene in Knots Untie.

 

In Knots Untie, Michonne sits in the passenger seat next to Rick on their way to the Hilltop; it's a natural place for her because she usually sits next to him in a vehicle, and they've just become an official couple. But on their way back to the ASZ, the Hilltop guy is sitting in the passenger seat next to Rick. I rewatched the scene to check if the Hilltop guy has any dialogue with Rick, any reason for sitting next to him, but they only share a look. So the only reason for Michonne to sit in the back with the others is so she can see Maggie's ultrasound.

 

I know the ultrasound moment is significant for a number of reasons (the tumblr post predicts it's foreshadowing for Michonne telling Rick about Andre, which I think is highly likely), but one thing I never considered is the people who look at the ultrasound in relation to the Negan lineup in the finale.

 

In the RV, Glenn hands the ultrasound to Michonne, Michonne hands it to Daryl, and Daryl hands it to Abe. And though Abe wasn't kidnapped with Glenn, Michonne and Daryl, these four feel really significant in some way. Is it possible Negan's victim really is one of the four?

 

I've stopped worrying that Michonne is Negan's victim, and I also doubt it's Daryl because of all I've read about merchandising, etc.. But I've also read the theory that the truck POV in the finale is significant. Why show that POV so many times, and then use the same type of POV for the death scene? 

 

I've been moving away from Glenn as the victim and more toward Abe. But now I'm starting to worry about Glenn again.

[Sighed I]

I just saw a tumblr post predicting a season 7 scene about Michonne's son by specifically discussing the end scene in Knots Untie.

 

In Knots Untie, Michonne sits in the passenger seat next to Rick on their way to the Hilltop; it's a natural place for her because she usually sits next to him in a vehicle, and they've just become an official couple. But on their way back to the ASZ, the Hilltop guy is sitting in the passenger seat next to Rick. I rewatched the scene to check if the Hilltop guy has any dialogue with Rick, any reason for sitting next to him, but they only share a look. So the only reason for Michonne to sit in the back with the others is so she can see Maggie's ultrasound.

 

I know the ultrasound moment is significant for a number of reasons (the tumblr post predicts it's foreshadowing for Michonne telling Rick about Andre, which I think is highly likely), but one thing I never considered is the people who look at the ultrasound in relation to the Negan lineup in the finale.

 

In the RV, Glenn hands the ultrasound to Michonne, Michonne hands it to Daryl, and Daryl hands it to Abe. And though Abe wasn't kidnapped with Glenn, Michonne and Daryl, these four feel really significant in some way. Is it possible Negan's victim really is one of the four?

 

I've stopped worrying that Michonne is Negan's victim, and I also doubt it's Daryl because of all I've read about merchandising, etc.. But I've also read the theory that the truck POV in the finale is significant. Why show that POV so many times, and then use the same type of POV for the death scene? 

 

I've been moving away from Glenn as the victim and more toward Abe. But now I'm starting to worry about Glenn again.

 

Hi slade3, I'm at work and can't look it up right now (I know, I know, why am I posting of PTV then... har har), but just a quick question. Are you saying the order in the RV during the ultrasound pic passing scene is the same as the order they are positioned in Negan's lineup?

[slade3]

No. (I actually checked and Rosita is next to Daryl.)

 

I'm only saying the ultrasound scene is this significant moment shared between Glenn, Michonne, Daryl and Abraham. Maggie is there, but she only looks at Glenn before resting her head on his shoulder. She doesn't share a look with the others. Glenn and Michoone share a look. Then Michonne and Daryl share a look. Then Daryl and Abraham share a look. And then Abraham nods at Glenn.

 

Glenn, Michonne and Daryl are in the truck during the finale. And I wondered if that alone could point to our victim. Might be a stretch, but it seemed significant somehow. These 4 people staring at the future, and then ending up in that line up.

[Sighed I]

No. (I actually checked and Rosita is next to Daryl.)

 

I'm only saying the ultrasound scene is this significant moment shared between Glenn, Michonne, Daryl and Abraham. Maggie is there, but she only looks at Glenn before resting her head on his shoulder. She doesn't share a look with the others. Glenn and Michoone share a look. Then Michonne and Daryl share a look. Then Daryl and Abraham share a look. And then Abraham nods at Glenn.

 

Glenn, Michonne and Daryl are in the truck during the finale. And I wondered if that alone could point to our victim. Might be a stretch, but it seemed significant somehow. These 4 people staring at the future, and then ending up in that line up.

 

Thanks! I appreciate you checking that out.

 

Interesting theory. I felt there was something significant to that moment myself, given all the talk about the future during that (and later) episodes. The passing of the photo was a somewhat "slow", deliberate scene. I don't think it's a stretch. Hadn't thought about who was in the truck tying those two scenes together. Now, this is a stretch, but one could surmise that since Rosita was in the truck with the other three, and she was significant to Abraham, maybe she was a proxy for him.

 

All right, I really better get back to work. Sigh. But at least now I have something else to roll around in my head to help pass the time! Thanks again.

[slade3]

Thanks! I appreciate you checking that out.

 

Interesting theory. I felt there was something significant to that moment myself, given all the talk about the future during that (and later) episodes. The passing of the photo was a somewhat "slow", deliberate scene. I don't think it's a stretch. Hadn't thought about who was in the truck tying those two scenes together. Now, this is a stretch, but one could surmise that since Rosita was in the truck with the other three, and she was significant to Abraham, maybe she was a proxy for him.

 

All right, I really better get back to work. Sigh. But at least now I have something else to roll around in my head to help pass the time! Thanks again.

Well - I was thinking that Rosita was a stand-in for Abraham since there was really no way they could get Abraham to leave with Michonne and Glenn without Sasha (and instead of Rosita since she was with Daryl and Denise). But I thought that would be too much of a stretch, too!

Edited April 20, 2016 by slade3

[RedheadZombie]

My impulse from the beginning is the victim will be Rosita, but general consensus is the victim will be a male.   The show has long been bad about showing their hand before a death, but I feel this death has had many deliberate misleads.  I think Aaron is a strong possibility.  He's had very little to do, then suddenly he's along with CDB on a save-Maggie mission.  They also focused specifically on Aaron's reaction to watching the man be hanged.  He was shown to be the most disturbed by the man's suffering.  I'm still feeling it's one of these two. 

[slade3]

I'm one of the people who believes the victim will be a male. I just don't see AMC allowing a woman to have that death, especially after all the negative attention on the finale. And I've read Negan likes the ladies - though he clearly felt Maggie looked terrible due to illness and was willing to make her the victim, I think he'd be attracted to Michonne and Rosita and would keep them around to see if he could lure them over to his side.

 

I'm still leaning on Abe even though we don't see his POV in the truck during the finale. I don't have a theory on the truck POV, but I think people are on to something when they say that POV throughout the episode means something.

 

I know what you mean about Aaron, but I think Aaron is a red herring. As well as Eugene. 

[Haleth]

I didn't get to see the finale for nearly a week after it aired, but had read the spoilers about the cliffhanger.  It doesn't bother me to be left not knowing who was killed.  It gives me time to think about each character and to accept why he/she might be the victim.  Now, if you can handwave why Negan wouldn't choose Rick, the leader of CDB, the next choice from Negan's POV should be the man who was ramrod straight and looked him dead in the eye (no pun intended).  That would be Abe, someone obviously intending to resist Negan's control.  Maybe I'm trying to justify why it should not be Glenn, a man who doesn't appear to be a threat.  It doesn't make sense.  (Same for Eugene.)  Yeah, applying logic to this story is kind of silly because the writers will probably go for drama over logic.  In any case even though I like Abe, it would upset me more to lose Glenn or Daryl.  I doubt it is any of the women.  It certainly (my opinion) won't be Rick or Carl.

[RedheadZombie]

I'm surprised by how much I don't want it to be Abraham. He could have had a Eureka moment about being in love with Rosita and saved the whole breakup scene if end game was to kill him. And why do it again to Sasha? Seems extra cruel.

[easypeasy]

No. (I actually checked and Rosita is next to Daryl.)

 

I'm only saying the ultrasound scene is this significant moment shared between Glenn, Michonne, Daryl and Abraham. Maggie is there, but she only looks at Glenn before resting her head on his shoulder. She doesn't share a look with the others. Glenn and Michoone share a look. Then Michonne and Daryl share a look. Then Daryl and Abraham share a look. And then Abraham nods at Glenn.

 

Glenn, Michonne and Daryl are in the truck during the finale. And I wondered if that alone could point to our victim. Might be a stretch, but it seemed significant somehow. These 4 people staring at the future, and then ending up in that line up.

Yeah, that scene was especially poignant what with the soaring music and lingering shot as they drove off. 

 

I'm inclined to go with the obvious choice of Glen. After the fourth roadblock, Rick makes one last teary-eyed, totally unconvincing 'We're gonna make it' declaration to Maggie. She pointedly responds "I believe in you Rick," and he looks so forlorn and racked with guilt already. That exchange felt meaningful to me. Next in line would be Abraham, but I don't see the point in wasting all those feels on an Abraham death.

Edited April 21, 2016 by easypeasy

[J----av]

My impulse from the beginning is the victim will be Rosita, but general consensus is the victim will be a male.   The show has long been bad about showing their hand before a death, but I feel this death has had many deliberate misleads.  I think Aaron is a strong possibility.  He's had very little to do, then suddenly he's along with CDB on a save-Maggie mission.  They also focused specifically on Aaron's reaction to watching the man be hanged.  He was shown to be the most disturbed by the man's suffering.  I'm still feeling it's one of these two. 

Rosita or Aaron? Man i would be pissed! Those would be by far the most anti climatic deaths they could do.

 

Anyone but Glen would be a disappointment

Edited April 21, 2016 by J----av

[Sighed I]

 

I'm surprised by how much I don't want it to be Abraham. He could have had a Eureka moment about being in love with Rosita and saved the whole breakup scene if end game was to kill him. And why do it again to Sasha? Seems extra cruel.

 

I don't want it to be Abraham either. I don't know who I'd put in his place, when I think about the likeliest candidates, because I don't want it to be any of them either! I've really come to appreciate Abraham. Of the A/R/E trio, he's gotten the most development by far, but season 6 is when I started to see true depth and realness to his character.

 

As I've said before, prior to this Abe was more caricature than character to me. Now that he's at or near the top of the most likely to be killed list, it's like, we're finally getting to know the core of who he is and now you're (potentially) going to kill him off? Michael Cudlitz is a fine actor, and it feels like such a waste of his talent to have waited this long to really do something with his character.

 

If it is him, I'm guessing they're planning to use it to further Sasha's character development, or try to anyway. I'm kind of concerned they've written her into a corner, especially if they go this route; if it comes to this I hope they'll prove me wrong.

 

 

I'm one of the people who believes the victim will be a male. I just don't see AMC allowing a woman to have that death, especially after all the negative attention on the finale. And I've read Negan likes the ladies - though he clearly felt Maggie looked terrible due to illness and was willing to make her the victim, I think he'd be attracted to Michonne and Rosita and would keep them around to see if he could lure them over to his side.

 

I can definitely see Negan finding Michonne and Rosita attractive, as well as Sasha, and Maggie if she were well (looking like death warmed over is the one thing putting her at risk, but like you said, I can't see AMC greenlighting a woman getting this particular death).

 

You don't make it this far into the ZA unless you're a survivor--or incredibly, improbably lucky, but as we've seen time and again, if you don't have skills your luck eventually runs out--so that alone greatly increases one's attractiveness in this world. Add physical beauty to the mix? No way in hell will Negan deny himself the opportunity to "win over" as many of them as possible.

Edited April 21, 2016 by Sighed I

[slade3]

 

If it is him, I'm guessing they're planning to use it to further Sasha's character development, or try to anyway. I'm kind of concerned they've written her into a corner, especially if they go this route; if it comes to this I hope they'll prove me wrong.

 

I can definitely see Negan finding Michonne and Rosita attractive, as well as Sasha, and Maggie if she were well (looking like death warmed over is the one thing putting her at risk, but like you said, I can't see AMC greenlighting a woman getting this particular death).

 

I forgot Sasha was in the line up, too. So, yes, Negan would probably find all of the women attractive enough to want them in his harem.

 

Someone upthread made the point  that everyone had their moments in the final episodes of season 6, and when we look back on it, there will be signs for any character that ends up being the victim.

 

For me, if the writers are really going with the "this character has had an impact on everyone in the group", it would be Glen. But I see the signs for Abe. Some have said Denise

got Abe's comic book death so that Abe could be Negan's victim

.

 

I've been reading the wiki pages for the comic series and, I don't know why, but I'm surprised by how many people die. Just from the comic storylines, I have to say I think we're losing a lot of people next season. So if Abe isn't Negan's victim, he will probably die at some point in season 7. I think Sasha (who isn't in the comics) and Spencer will leave us, too. And, of course, several Alexandrians and Saviors.

[Ocean Chick]

Now, if you can handwave why Negan wouldn't choose Rick, the leader of CDB, the next choice from Negan's POV should be the man who was ramrod straight and looked him dead in the eye (no pun intended).  That would be Abe, someone obviously intending to resist Negan's control.  Maybe I'm trying to justify why it should not be Glenn, a man who doesn't appear to be a threat.

 

But remember Negan killed a 16 year old boy at Hilltop.  Unless he was a moose of a 16 year old, how much threat would he appear to be, surrounded by full grown men?  So Negan probably doesn't go by who looks to be the most threat.

[RedheadZombie]

I don't want it to be Abraham either. I don't know who I'd put in his place, when I think about the likeliest candidates, because I don't want it to be any of them either! I've really come to appreciate Abraham. Of the A/R/E trio, he's gotten the most development by far, but season 6 is when I started to see true depth and realness to his character.

 

As I've said before, prior to this Abe was more caricature than character to me. Now that he's at or near the top of the most likely to be killed list, it's like, we're finally getting to know the core of who he is and now you're (potentially) going to kill him off? Michael Cudlitz is a fine actor, and it feels like such a waste of his talent to have waited this long to really do something with his character.

 

I really cared nothing for Abraham until the episode where he beat down Eugene.  It was the combination of his back story and the death vigil he held for Eugene.  Someone, I think Maggie, had handed Abraham a bottle of water while he kneeled on the ground.  He stayed there unmoving until Eugene finally groaned and showed signs that he would live.  It was only then that Abraham reached out for that bottle of water.  I felt he didn't want to live if he had killed Eugene, and only after he heard that Eugene was regaining consciousness, did he make the decision to continue.  Something about that really moved me.

 

I can definitely see Negan finding Michonne and Rosita attractive, as well as Sasha, and Maggie if she were well (looking like death warmed over is the one thing putting her at risk, but like you said, I can't see AMC greenlighting a woman getting this particular death).

 

I know little of Negan, so I've only read about his character here.  But my strong suspicion from the beginning is we won't truly see the victim beaten to death - we'll just see CDB's reaction.  It would be hard for them to show any living character's head beaten to a pulp. 

 

But killing a woman in this situation seems very doable when you consider we've already witnessed a physically healthy child be deliberately killed.  That was the shocker, IMO.  But even beyond that, I would be disappointed with AMC and TWD if they were too cowardly to allow the victim to be a female.  Females on this show have made great strides in the last few seasons.  They are every bit as tough - mentally and physically - as even the strongest male.  And they're certainly stronger than a few select males.  Maggie was not coddled during the Savior attack, nor did she want to be.  Personally, other than under-age Carl, and deathly ill Maggie, the rest of our crew being the victim would be equally tragic - male or female.   Of course, it will hurt me to varying degrees, but I don't find a female's death any more tragic or impactful than a male's.  (Not saying you feel any different, just directing these thoughts to network and show).

[Sighed I]

I forgot Sasha was in the line up, too. So, yes, Negan would probably find all of the women attractive enough to want them in his harem.

 

Someone upthread made the point  that everyone had their moments in the final episodes of season 6, and when we look back on it, there will be signs for any character that ends up being the victim.

 

For me, if the writers are really going with the "this character has had an impact on everyone in the group", it would be Glen. But I see the signs for Abe. Some have said Denise

got Abe's comic book death so that Abe could be Negan's victim

.

 

I've been reading the wiki pages for the comic series and, I don't know why, but I'm surprised by how many people die. Just from the comic storylines, I have to say I think we're losing a lot of people next season. So if Abe isn't Negan's victim, he will probably die at some point in season 7. I think Sasha (who isn't in the comics) and Spencer will leave us, too. And, of course, several Alexandrians and Saviors.

 

So because I apparently like to play with fire, I decided to peek behind the spoiler tags. As for the first, I see that as a very real possibility for the reason you noted.

 

To the second point,

I haven't read the comics or the wiki, but people on other boards have let it slip that Spencer's not long for this world. This doesn't particularly surprise me. It's like he hesitates when action is needed but rushes to act when caution is called for. He doesn't seem to have the best judgment.

 

As far as other season 7 predictions, I think Sasha's card may end up getting punched, particularly if Negan kills Abe. Given how close to the edge she was after losing Tyreese and Bob, if Abe dies that may break the camel's back.

They could possibly give her a modified version of comic Carol's death. I don't think Sasha would purposely let herself be eaten alive, but I could see her charging headlong into a situation she knows she won't be able to get out of and taking herself out once she's totally surrounded.

 

To be honest, I'm not too sure about Rosita or Tara's longevity either unless they come up with something substantially different for them to do. Now that Negan's introduced it does open up some possibilities, but my prediction is of Sasha, Rosita and Tara, only one will make it out of season 7 alive.

 

I would like to see if they'll do anything interesting with Eugene and Gabriel. I see a lot of potential for both, but then I'm a sucker for redemption stories.

[HalcyonDays]

_____________________________________________________________________________________________________

Hey Everyone. Heads Up!

If you already didn't know, the PTV forums are going to be upgraded Tuesday April 26th, starting around 8:00 am ET.

 

This means that the forums will be UNAVAILABLE most of the day Tuesday. You will not be able to access the forums.

If all goes well, the forums will be available again sometime Tuesday evening.

 

So don't panic! Grab a good book! Get some work done! Catch up on your news! Go for a walk! Watch a movie!

When you log on again, shiny new fantastically fast forums will await you!

 

Just giving you this messsage, in case some of you missed the announcement at the top of the site.

Cheers! HalcyonDays

______________________________________________________________________________________________________

[Nashville]

Well, there goes one of my primary recreational pastimes.

For a day.

Expect I'll survive - but if I start gnawing the furniture, expect a bill for damages.

(Just kidding: I'm light here on Tuesdays anyways, as I help out with a scuba class on Tuesday nights)

;>

[TVFan17]

I see that with this new website layout, some of the things that people previously hid behind Spoiler tags in this thread are suddenly showing.  I noticed it in a couple of posts in this thread already -- there's no telling what might have suddenly been revealed around the board now that the Spoilers have opened up!  Avert your eyes, everyone.  Look away!  Look away!

[Nashville]

28 minutes ago, Sherry67 said:

I see that with this new website layout, some of the things that people previously hid behind Spoiler tags in this thread are suddenly showing.  I noticed it in a couple of posts in this thread already -- there's no telling what might have suddenly been revealed around the board now that the Spoilers have opened up!  Avert your eyes, everyone.  Look away!  Look away!

MARGARET THATCHER NAKED ON A COLD DAY!

MARGARET THATCHER NAKED ON A COLD DAY!

-- Austin Powers

[slade3]

The new format doesn't really work on my Mac. Hopefully I'l be able to figure out how to fix it.

[HalcyonDays]

21 hours ago, slade3 said:

The new format doesn't really work on my Mac. Hopefully I'l be able to figure out how to fix it.

slade3, there is a forum that people are asking questions in about the upgrade, HERE

Scroll through, maybe someone asked already about MAC, if not, see if you can create a thread and just mention/explain what's going on. I'd even say include screen shots if you somehow can finagle it on the MAC.

It's a learning curve for all!

.

[TVFan17]

Oh, good -- I see that the spoiler-tagged paragraphs have been hidden once again!  I like spoilers, so none of that bothered me one bit -- but I know that some folks are very averse to anything that even vaguely resembles a spoiler. 

[HalcyonDays]

42 minutes ago, Sherry67 said:

Oh, good -- I see that the spoiler-tagged paragraphs have been hidden once again!  I like spoilers, so none of that bothered me one bit -- but I know that some folks are very averse to anything that even vaguely resembles a spoiler. 

It was a bug during the upgrade process - some spoilers were unhidden, but that's been resolved now.  Nothing we could have done about it in the meantime.

If you guys have any questions, you can ask(PM) me and I'll try to help (I'm learning this new format too) or go to the Questions thread and ask. Go to Questions especially if it's a weird bug or something seems off.

[TVFan17]

25 minutes ago, HalcyonDays said:

It was a bug during the upgrade process - some spoilers were unhidden, but that's been resolved now.  Nothing we could have done about it in the meantime.

If you guys have any questions, you can ask(PM) me and I'll try to help (I'm learning this new format too) or go to the Questions thread and ask. Go to Questions especially if it's a weird bug or something seems off.

 

Oh, I totally understand how that goes.  I moderate another forum (and its subforums) on a huge website that had one specific layout and look for many years.  There were certain features and functions that people got used to as well.  There were a lot of technical issues behind the scenes -- sometimes they would manifest on the forums and threads would go awry, but it was mostly behind the scenes.  When the owner of the site and the webmasters decided to switch everything over to a new platform early last year, not only did the actual look and layout of the site change completely (it was a much more drastic change than the one here on Previously.TV, I'd say), and things moved around, and certain features we loved were no longer available, but all kinds of quirks and bugs wreaked havoc in thousands of threads all over the board, in every forum.  It took weeks for some old threads to make the move over to the new platform.   Punctuation disappeared in lengthy reports -- hyphens, apostrophes, quotes, etc., went missing, and there was no way to restore them. Also, some of the thousands upon thousands of photos that people posted around the site were no longer showing, people's avatars started mysteriously changing on their own, certain things were not appearing in the text boxes, etc.  It took a long time for most of the bugs to be fixed, and a lot of nightmares for the tech and admin team behind the scenes.  Some of the issues were unable to be fixed at all, and some features were unable to be implemented, but most of it eventually smoothed out a bit after a rough transition.

So, based on what I see here on this board, the look is a little different, yes.  But, for the most part, on the surface it's not that drastic of a change to have to fumble with for the next month, trying to figure out.  Behind the scenes, though, I'm sure you guys have your hands full trying to work out the kinks!

[TVFan17]

It just occurred to me that I had forgotten to check TSDF's Facebook page or website, or any other "Who has been seen filming" sources.  Have they started filming now?  

After the season finale and my initial annoyance, I just stopped caring -- and now I have to remind myself to seek out info because it's 'out of sight; out of mind' for me.  I know that Gimple, Kirkman and the whole lot of them thought it would be a great idea to end the season that way so that people could talk, debate and ponder who got killed for 6 whole months.  Ha!  They underestimate the people who were already talking and debating before the season finale aired.  Many of us are all talked and debated out at this point, and don't care to speculate any further because we just... don't care.  Lol.  I'll tune in to the Season 7 premiere, as I would have done anyway, but if those folks at TWD think that who Negan killed is prominent enough in my mind to wonder about it for 6 months straight, they are delusional.

When it's to the point that I don't even care enough to look for spoilers (and I love spoilers -- the more detailed, the better!), it means that the season finale was a big fail for me.

Edited May 5, 2016 by Sherry67

[rab01]

Sherry87 -- agreed with everything you said.  It's no big deal anymore. I'll be a little bummed if it's a redshirt like Aaron and a little bummed if they use the same guy as in the comic because that will make the whole season seem like an attempt to distract from an inevitability.

All that said, in a few months I plan to binge-watch this season because I think it plays a lot better as a season-long thing than as separate episodes. I bet I will even like the cheesemaker episode when I watch it without Glenn's dumpster-ghost hovering over the set.

[Iguessnot]

Can someone who reads the comics answer this for me? Was Negan's appearance in comics built up like the second coming? For example, I've heard both Michonne & the Governor were in the comics. Michonne appeared on the show in that awesome silhouette. I don't remember the Governor's introduction, but it was a natural introduction. I've been more than a little annoyed with the build up of Negan but if the same stuff played out in the comics, I'll have to readjust my criticisms. No comic details please.

[RedheadZombie]

10 hours ago, Iguessnot said:

Can someone who reads the comics answer this for me? Was Negan's appearance in comics built up like the second coming? For example, I've heard both Michonne & the Governor were in the comics. Michonne appeared on the show in that awesome silhouette. I don't remember the Governor's introduction, but it was a natural introduction. I've been more than a little annoyed with the build up of Negan but if the same stuff played out in the comics, I'll have to readjust my criticisms. No comic details please.

I don't read the comics, but I know the intro of Rosita/Abraham/Eugene was pure comic, down to Rosita's ridiculous booty shorts and bare midriff.  I didn't mind the Negan build up, but I wonder if it was necessary due to JDM's work schedule on The Good Wife.

[rab01]

On 5/7/2016 at 0:55 AM, Iguessnot said:

Can someone who reads the comics answer this for me? Was Negan's appearance in comics built up like the second coming? For example, I've heard both Michonne & the Governor were in the comics. Michonne appeared on the show in that awesome silhouette. I don't remember the Governor's introduction, but it was a natural introduction. I've been more than a little annoyed with the build up of Negan but if the same stuff played out in the comics, I'll have to readjust my criticisms. No comic details please.

Sort of no.

They did meet Hilltop in the comics first, like they did here and its head was also a weasel (though not as bad as on TV).  Negan's appearance and what he did was a shock and sort of amazing because it wasn't really foreshadowed. Until we met him and Lucille, it seemed like Hilltop was the main comics story and Negan's people just another annoyance-group like most of the others. 

The Show couldn't do that so they went with a bag of anvils instead.

[Iguessnot]

8 hours ago, rab01 said:

Sort of no.

They did meet Hilltop in the comics first, like they did here and its head was also a weasel (though not as bad as on TV).  Negan's appearance and what he did was a shock and sort of amazing because it wasn't really foreshadowed. Until we met him and Lucille, it seemed like Hilltop was the main comics story and Negan's people just another annoyance-group like most of the others. 

The Show couldn't do that so they went with a bag of anvils instead.

Thanks. So all this Negan build up was for the comic readers. Hiding the identity of the bludgeoned person is also for the comic folks. Because as a non-spoiled watcher, these storytelling ploys were strange and the intention misdirected.