S02.E09: Seven Minutes In Heaven

[The Crazed Spruce]

Castle gets an offer he can't refuse. Foggy and Murdock question the future of their firm, but Karen won't give up so easily.

[Bec]

Man, all those cleaners coming in to "take care of the dead body" was creepy.

 

Nelson and Murdock is breaking up again? Must they do this every season?

 

Aww... at Karen getting Ben's office. Now I'm flipping over to being glad the writing seem to have deliberately made her relationship with Matt implode before it really got started so that she can do something more than just being the love interest.

 

And it's good to see Fisk being a criminal mastermind instead of using his brawn more than his brain.

 

Matt is essentially cutting all ties to people like Stick said he should do. Even though he thinks he is not doing things Stick's way. Hmm.

[Boundary]

Bloody hell, what was that?

[Racj82]

Man, all those cleaners coming in to "take care of the dead body" was creepy.

Nelson and Murdock is breaking up again? Must they do this every season?

Aww... at Karen getting Ben's office. Now I'm flipping over to being glad the writing seem to have deliberately made her relationship with Matt implode before it really got started so that she can do something more than just being the love interest.

And it's good to see Fisk being a criminal mastermind instead of using his brawn more than his brain.

Matt is essentially cutting all ties to people like Stick said he should do. Even though he thinks he is not doing things Stick's way. Hmm.

She's never been just the love interest so they didn't need to break them up to do progress her character. She's been progressing all season.

[JessePinkman]

Karen definitely drives story, I love her arc even though I don't always love her. I'm curious as to what happened when she was a teenager.

So is the Daniel they found at the Farm Daniel Rand aka Iron Fist? Because that's not the same actor they cast recently to headline his own Netflix show.

This show needs a special Emmy or something for its fight scenes because that scene with Frank and all the prisoners was incredible. Funnily enough it reminded me of the Walking Dead and some of the zombie attack scenes they've had.

[Bec]

Oh, it's not a criticism, this is me appreciating that Karen wasn't made into just the love interest by the show. For a second it seemed like the show might be heading there, but then, nope, expectations subverted.

 

I don't know if the whole relationship arc with Matt was necessary, really, but Karen getting fed up with Matt does make me respect her more. (I already liked her, but now even more.)

[FurryFury]

Now I'm flipping over to being glad the writing seem to have deliberately made her relationship with Matt implode before it really got started so that she can do something more than just being the love interest.

 

I'm with you. I'm very pleased with Karen's arc this season. She really came into her own.

 

Karen getting fed up with Matt does make me respect her more. (I already liked her, but now even more.)

 

Me too. 

 

As for the episode, way too much Fisk for my liking. It's an unpopular opinion, but he never did anything for me. This season has much better antagonists, even if I'm not a huge fan of The Hand so far.

Edited March 20, 2016 by FurryFury

[VCRTracking]

Me watching the prison fight sequence:

[JustaPerson]

 

As for the episode, way too much Fisk for my liking. It's an unpopular opinion, but he never did anything for me. This season has much better antagonists, even if I'm not a huge fan of The Hand so far

Agreed (kind of.) I thought he was a great villain, but as a person/character I hated him. I was itching for Matt to bring him down. Frank on the other hand? Love.

[Chaos Theory]

Agreed (kind of.) I thought he was a great villain, but as a person/character I hated him. I was itching for Matt to bring him down. Frank on the other hand? Love.

I am the opposite. I loved Fisk last season he had layers but Frank is just kill kill. I have enjoyed Frank in three scenes. The one on the roof top, the one at the graveyard and when he was talking to Fisk in the prison. Otherwise he has been kinda one note.

<----edited to change hospital to prison

Edited March 20, 2016 by Chaos Theory

[WendyCR72]

I am the opposite. I loved Fisk last season he had layers but Frank is just kill kill. I have enjoyed Frank in three scenes. The one on the roof top, the one at the graveyard and when he was talking to Karen in the hospital. Otherwise he has been kinda one note.

 

Just going to co-sign. I thought Fisk was going to be absent this season, so when he showed up, I was happy! What that says about me "liking" (as much as one can like a guy like Wilson Fisk!) Fisk, I'm not sure.

 

Maybe the ol' "if liking Fisk is wrong, I don't wanna be right!" (Although I miss his humanizing moments with Vanessa. Maybe in future seasons...?)

[benteen]

Don't feel so bad.  I was thrilled when I saw Fisk was going to be in this episode a lot and VD'O absolutely killed it.  I thought the character really re-established himself as a force to be reckoned with after his anti-climactic takedown last season.  It also began his issues with Frank and Kingpin was also Frank's number one enemy for years in the comics.

[Dandesun]

My feelings regarding Frank and Fisk are as such:

 

Fisk is a villain. Full on, full out, no question in my mind villain. He envisions himself as the hero of his own story which is how villains tend to see themselves. That's certainly how he saw himself for the bulk of season one. But he's not. He's a bad guy. He sees people as obstacles or tools or things to just step on and remove. That isn't to say he's not interesting but I will never ever root for that guy. Ever.

 

Frank is fucked up, there's no question, but I see him as not a full on villain. I hesitate to use the word anti-hero as well because 'hero' in any form doesn't seem to apply to him. Vigilante is the best word. Frank targets organized crime because they are what tore his world apart. When that kid jumped up and started crying about 'You killed my Dad!' I envisioned Michael or Morgan Corinthos doing that on General Hospital about their piece of shit mob boss father and couldn't give a rat's ass about Whiney Whinerson in the courtroom. Frank doesn't go after innocents, that's never been his thing... Anti-heroes tend to cover a large amount of gray along the scale and Frank is as dark grey as it gets.

 

Here's the thing, before the last Secret Wars started in the comics,  you had universes colliding and being destroyed. The Kingpin invited a slew of villains to watch the show and enjoy the heroes failing... which is a dick move. "If the world is truly ending, let it end thusly... with drink, and joy, at the sight of our enemies' greatest failure." But then Frank kicked in the door loaded for bear and basically told them "Gentlemen, they say that when you die, you can't take it with you. Which begs the question: Exactly what am I gonna do with all these bullets?" For me? Frank's arrival was awesome but, in my defense, fuck those guys.

 

That's what it comes down to. In a choice between them, I do say that Frank is a step or two above Fisk and I love that in their interactions, Frank knows exactly what Fisk is. He's not siding with him by any means...  basically promising that only one of them will walk away when they meet on the outside. But there is a pragmatic side to Frank, too... his specific revenge/vengeance means more than specific morality so Fisk is useful to a point but when it comes down to it, Frank is against Fisk until the end.

[thuganomics85]

Fisk and Frank.  The Kingpin and The Punisher.  I can't ask for anything more.

 

I loved the opening and seeing how Fisk survived in prison as long as he did.  He didn't become the top dog, but he kept his head down, and used the money he did have to form a small crew to get by, which was basically two henchman and former hedge-fund guy, who I totally believe is suppose to be his new Wesley.  But that's how Fisk is.  He is all about the long game and striking when the time is right.  And what a better time then when Frank is near by!

 

William Forsythe was a welcome surprise.  This season has been really great at getting recognizable faces to show up for smaller roles, Of course, he was destined to get fucked up by Frank.  Of course, the entire gang was destined for that.  That was a brutal fight scene and it was great seeing Frank's style of hand-to-hand combat. No gimmicks or tricks: he just straight up plows through anyone standing in his way and will use anything to come out ahead.  I wouldn't expect anything less from The Punisher.  And now he's out again, so I can only imagine what he will do.  And I so hope he and Fisk cross paths again.  I want a rematch were he isn't chained up and still wounded from the previous attack.

 

Matt and Foggy break-up.... again.  Those two are totally the "will they or won't they" couple of this series.  Not sure what Foggy is going to do now.  Meanwhile, Karen has already found a new calling by teaming up with Mitchell, and continuing to look into what went down with Frank's family.  I just hope she's a bit more careful and that Mitchell especially doesn't suffer the same fate Ben did.  Speaking of which, loved the scene of Karen in Ben's office.  I really enjoyed those two last season, and I'm glad her relationship with him is still a factor.  In general, I'm just glad Karen has had a huge impact this season and wasn't just side-lined as a love interest/glofired secretary.

 

So, it basically sounds like the gang war that killed Frank's family was actually part of some kind of sting operation, which probably explains why Reyes and the DA have been so aggressive.  But this will really change things if Frank goes after them.  So far, there has been the "They're criminals!" excuse, but even if they were responsible, I can't see him getting away with going after the law.

 

Matt decides that he and Elektra are bad for each other, so he makes her leave.  I don't see that lasting for long.  Especially since The Hand apparently consists of a resurrected Nobu.   That can't be good!  Especially since Nobu continues to be one of his biggest challenges left.  Matt barely was able to beat him last time.  I'm sure Nobu is more prepared for this battle.

[Danny Franks]

It's amazing how good Vincent D'Onofrio is at generating sympathy for Fisk. Even knowing how much of an evil bastard Fisk was, I felt bad for him in those opening prison scenes.

Of course, then he started making moves to take over the prison, and I remembered how awful he was. I like his new Wesley, though. I find myself far more interested in Fisk's plans than in the Hand stuff, I have to say. The scenes with Fisk and Castle were great. Two actors who have so much going on u nder the surface, who keep so much bottled up.

Delving more into Elektra's damaged psyche was interesting, though. No excuses, no whitewashing, she enjoys killing. Just like Frank Castle does. I understand why Matt can't let himself be comfortable with that.

I'm getting a bit tired of Matt and Foggy arguing all the time. Matt keeps too much to himself, and Foggy throws tantrums about it too often.

I guess the theme of this episode was 'accept who you are', with Matt seemingly giving up on his friends and embracing the vigilante, Elektra admitting she likes killing and Frank effectively taking a contract to kill a guy. And Karen realising her drive for truth is not best served by working for lawyers, even crusading lawyers. Being a reporter is a perfect fit for her. That's a really nice turn of events. And it's something else that feels like it's been planned since the beginning.

It also gives her a distance from Matt and Foggy, which she needs to keep her relationships with both men intact. Love that she decided she's not going to be messed around by Matt, and hopefully it will mean he has to work to earn her repsect again, which would address the issues I had with their relationship. Her getting Ben's office was a really sweet moment. And I'm intrigued about her past even more, now.

So I guess it was Reyes who arranged the sting operation, and that's what she's been trying to keep quiet. Wonder if it will tie in to the Hand somehow. Perhaps through the heroin.

That fight scene in the prison was horrible. Just awful to watch. The sound effects didn't help either. God.

On an aesthetic note, the red eyes on Matt's costume are really cool. They give him a genuinely otherworldly aspect.

More ninja fighting, but at least this time it was with Nobu, who's a character who actually felt like a threat. Nice surprise.

[Dandesun]

Poor Foggy... once he found out about Matt being Daredevil, that seemed to kick open a door and now everything Matt says or does is suspect. Throw in Elektra and Matt full on flaking during a trial, well, I can't blame Foggy for this mess. He went in as a partner and Matt went careening off on his own and left Foggy holding the bag.

[AudienceofOne]

Me watching the prison fight sequence:

Ditto. I'm not usually squeamish but that took it a bit too far for me.

[KaleyFirefly]

Ditto. I'm not usually squeamish but that took it a bit too far for me.

Yeah, I couldn't watch all of it...I kept covering my eyes! It was too violent even for me (and I loved the ninja fights)

[Primetimer]

A jailhouse bargain signals a meeting of the (sociopathic) minds...but it really could be so much more if only they’d let it.

Read the story

[AudienceofOne]

"...that partnership would be way more interesting to watch than Woundy McConvalescent and his latest bout of back-alley medical care and self-actualization."

 

Anything is more interesting to watch than that. Even an entire episode of unnecessary flashbacks. The one thing I didn't like about this episode is there was no reflection from Frank about the fact his tactics align more with someone with Fisk than with the Daredevil. That should give him pause, since he's wrapped his quest in "justice".

[RustbeltWriter]

Ah, the Kingpin gets a new Wesley and Matt starts doing everything Stick says without acknowledging that he's doing everything Stick says. Good episode. I'm glad to see Karen breaking away and taking on a life outside Nelson and Murdoch. Maybe now she'll get paid in something other than pie.

 

Kingpin using Frank and then trying to kill him was right in character, as was Frank killing an entire cell block. I'm anxious to see where Matt's journey in the basement takes him.

[Rai]

Best episode of the season for me.  It was really great to see Fisk again.

[sinkwriter]

I find Fisk pretty fascinating, though brutal. I don't always need to see him, but it was a nice dosage to have him pop up in this way, for a bit.

I have to admit, I cracked up more than I probably should have at the weird visual of Fisk eating his supper, sitting by Dutton's bedside, telling him matter-of-factly that he was probably going to die in the next few hours. Your lungs are filling up with blood, no big deal... btw, this steak is delicious, too bad you will never have any ever again because did I mention you'll be dead soon? 

It was just hilariously warped.