S01.E04: The Eyes Of Texas

[AmandaPanda]

Jake and Bill's partnership starts to struggle as they discover more secrets surrounding the unpredictable Lee Harvey Oswald. The conspiracy involving Oswald deepens, while romance blooms for Jake and Sadie. But by becoming involved with an innocent bystander, has Jake placed his new love in danger?

[Primetimer]

It's hard to tell what's going to be a bigger problem for Jake: the fact that people are getting way too close to figuring out he's from the future...or a potentially dangerous figure from his girlfriend's past?

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[zxy556575]

Damn you, open curtains of stupidity!

 

Still not liking Bill. In theory, I can understand the usefulness of him as an assistant listening post, but he's a stupid loose cannon. Jake is already doing a bang-up job on his own of leaking secret information like a colander.

 

Hasn't Jake been in Texas for three years now? Why is Mimi just now bringing up his lies?

 

Seems like brothels would make it a point to close the bedroom doors when prostitutes are entertaining clients. I also disagree with Dawn that Jake doesn't look like he's got an hour in him. I just might be conflating Jake and James, though.

Edited March 8, 2016 by lordonia

[shapeshifter]

Is Mimi's cough/illness the past biting back? If so, why?

[zxy556575]

Is Mimi's cough/illness the past biting back? If so, why?

 

Yeah, you're right. No way that was just a random cough. I dunno what Mimi being ill might portend, though.

[GreekGeek]

This episode dragged a bit for me. It felt very much like a transition episode, setting in motion things that have potentially big consequences later on.

I think there's a parallel between Mimi's sickness and Al's, though I don't know exactly what it means.

Bill is growing on me; I like the two triangles: Bill/Marina/Lee and Jake/Sadie/Johnny.

I love the running joke of Jake coming up with something from movies and TV of the (in 1963) future. I don't think Mimi believed his "Godfather II" story but she didn't want to blow the whistle on him either.

Why did Jake have his surveillance equipment in the garage in Jodie? I thought he had it in the Dallas apartment. It seemed a bit of a plot contrivance so Sadie could find it. I was sure her evil ex was going to come leaping out at her when she was prowling around Jake's house. It never ceases to amaze me that people back then just left their doors unlocked.

[shapeshifter]

Mimi seems like the most likely to believe he's from the future because it is the only explanation that would explain his racial attitudes.

It never ceases to amaze me that people back then just left their doors unlocked.

It depends upon neighborhood, season, etc. I do.

[numbnut]

I'm guessing it was the "you don't belong here" guy who led Sadie to the sex tape, though I'm not sure why he's needed if the past can push back on its own. Miss Mimi is starting to annoy me -- Jake did her a major solid at the gas station but she's constantly chiding him as if he's troublesome. Was that TR Knight as Sadie's ex? He was awesome.

Edited March 8, 2016 by numbnut

[preeya]

I'm guessing it was the "you don't belong here" guy who led Sadie to the sex tape, though I'm not sure why he's needed if the past can push back on its own. Miss Mimi is starting to annoy me -- Jake did her a major solid at the gas station but she's constantly chiding him as if he's troublesome. Was that TR Knight as Sadie's ex? He was awesome.

Yes, that was T.R.(George O'Malley from Grey's Anatomy)

[Judois]

T.R. Knight is wonderful. He needs to be on my tv more.

This episode dragged for me,too. But I did appreciate little moments. The Fredo story,Bill enjoying the whorehouse,the stranger in black slipping into another room behind Sadie. That was creepy.

[MaryHedwig]

OK, someone has to explain the significance of the clothespin to me. (A G-rated version is fine.)

Edited March 8, 2016 by MaryHedwig

[GreekGeek]

OK, someone has to explain the significance of the clothespin to me. (A g-rated version is fine.)

I think he put it on a, uh, strange place. Why anyone would want to is another question.

[numbnut]

Franco and Gadon have so much chemistry that I'm now wondering if they hooked up IRL.

 

OK, someone has to explain the significance of the clothespin to me. (A g-rated version is fine.)

 

I think he put it on a, uh, strange place. Why anyone would want to is another question.

 

I'm guessing that he puts a clothespin on his penis because he's re-creating sexual abuse by a parent, and he takes his residual feelings (guilt/anger) out on himself and any sex partner (Sadie).

Edited March 8, 2016 by numbnut

[preeya]

Franco and Gadon have so much chemistry that I'm now wondering if they hooked up IRL.

 

 

 

I'm guessing that he puts a clothespin on his penis because he's re-creating sexual abuse by a parent, and he takes his residual feelings (guilt/anger) out on himself and any sex partner (Sadie).

Based on the conversation with Jake, it sounds like his "mommie" was the abuser.

[jjmcgr]

I am liking this show. The book was the only book by Stephen King I have ever read. I am a sucker for time travel stories.

They had to add the sidekick guy so that they'd be someone for the protagonist to talk to rather than use an overbearing narrator, As a bonus he can complicate or screw up things from time to time. If they were clever they would have given him the name of Kenneth Porter, the guy who married Marina in 1965.

Right now they are making it seem that Oswald was in a conspiracy but I think the book ran that way too. De Mohrenschildt was not there when the famous picture was taken but it was taken only a few days before the attempted Walker assassination happened. DeM only saw Oswald one time after that and that was the first he knew that Oswald had a rifle. He joked with Oswald that he was the assassin. Then he moved to Haiti. We'll have to see how that is portrayed in the movie.

[Bama]

So, Principal Deke and Miss Mimi are totally a thing, right?

 

His attitude at Jake for calling her "Mimi" instead of "Miss Mimi", the way he held back from embracing her when she was having her coughing fit, his brusqueness when Jake asked where Miss Mimi was and then immediately leaving (as if to go check on her), and his lecture about "private relationships" and his intimate knowledge of the Hideaway Bungalow place............all make me think Miss Mimi and Deke are totally a couple.

 

Also, he wouldn't hire Jake until Jake answered a question from Miss Mimi and got Mimi's approval as it were.

 

Okay, I've convinced myself - DEKEMI 4EVA!

[lucindabelle]

I got a couple vibe from Miss Mimi and Deke too, and hope the cough was just so we could see that... because, though I've said it before... I HATE THE STEPHEN KING "YOU MUST PAY" TROPE.

 

I HATE the creepy bum in the basement. I suspect Sadie's going to bite it. Argh, this was the worst thing in "Revival," next to the giant insects, which actually weren't so terrible because they made me laugh.

 

I didn't understand the clothespin thing at all. At first I thought it meant her husband was a woman pretending but that is obviously not true. Does he wear it all the time? wouldn't that cut out circulation? I'm perplexed.

[HolmesUltimateQu]

TR Knight is awesome. I'm so glad to see him in something!

I think I like the addition of Bill. I was slightly upset at first but I do like that he's got his own thing going on with Marina. I was scared that Lee was going to see them and freak out every time they spoke.

I also agreed with Bill that Jake is an asshole or whatever he called him. Jake has Sadie but Bill is supposed to sit in that hotel and stalk Lee forever? Not fair.

I like that Jake is making references to the future (The Beatles). I wish he'd use some slang. If I went back to the past, they would think something was up because I'd (over)use the words "cool" and "awesome".

[Danny Franks]

The bit with the Beatles song reminded me too much of Goodnight Sweetheart, an old British sitcom about a guy who finds a doorway back to 1941 Britain, and spends a lot of time playing Beatles songs on the piano in a pub, passing them off as his own as he tries to win the heart of the pub barmaid. Other than that, though, I really enjoyed this episode.

 

Sarah Gadon is absolutely stunning, and there's something so open and honest about her face that I feel tortured over Jake lying to her. I really enjoyed the progress they made in this episode, and love the fact that she is so upfront and candid about what she wants (including just stripping off while he's agonising over whether they should sleep together). The stuff with her abusive ex fit, and it was sadly a sign of the times that her own mother told him where to find her. I guess the clothes peg thing was a sign of the times too? It's a form of abuse that felt very old fashioned, like a previous generation of incredibly prudish parents warping their child's sexual identity.

 

I'm eager to see what she does now she's discovered that recording, and how Jake explains himself. Also, was that the creepy bum in Jake's house, or someone else? I couldn't tell. I thought at first that it was just a CIA spook who was looking to find out why Jake was interested in George and Oswald.

 

The stuff with Bill and Marina was interesting, and an unexpected wrinkle. She's not happy in America, it seems, and not particularly happy with Oswald, And Bill is really horny (Jake really should have let him get laid at the brothel), but with a yearning to protect someone after not being able to protect his sister. It could work out really well, or really badly. If Bill can gain her trust and learn more about Oswald. Of course, Bill is just as likely to carelessly spill the beans on everything.

Edited March 9, 2016 by Danny Franks

[GreekGeek]

So, Principal Deke and Miss Mimi are totally a thing, right?

 

His attitude at Jake for calling her "Mimi" instead of "Miss Mimi", the way he held back from embracing her when she was having her coughing fit, his brusqueness when Jake asked where Miss Mimi was and then immediately leaving (as if to go check on her), and his lecture about "private relationships" and his intimate knowledge of the Hideaway Bungalow place............all make me think Miss Mimi and Deke are totally a couple.

 

Also, he wouldn't hire Jake until Jake answered a question from Miss Mimi and got Mimi's approval as it were.

 

Okay, I've convinced myself - DEKEMI 4EVA!

Answering this in the Book vs. TV Show" thread.

[dr pepper]

I think the thing about the clothespin is that as a child, he was caught touching himself by his mother who chastise him for his dirty, sinful behavior and taught him to "pinch off" his impulses. So he developed a twisted, guilty, self hating attitude towards sex and incorporated the clothespin. Probably, in his mind, sex is only acceptable with a woman who will act on his mother's behalf to release him, thus giving him permission. I know that's reading a lot into it, but we've all heard about cases like this and i think we're supposed to understand that Jake, having more modern sensibilities, was equipped to figure the man out and use his deductions to advantage.

[reggiejax]

The stuff with Bill and Marina was interesting, and an unexpected wrinkle. She's not happy in America, it seems, and not particularly happy with Oswald, And Bill is really horny (Jake really should have let him get laid at the brothel), but with a yearning to protect someone after not being able to protect his sister. It could work out really well, or really badly. If Bill can gain her trust and learn more about Oswald. Of course, Bill is just as likely to carelessly spill the beans on everything.

 

It will be interesting, especially since Marina speaks almost no English, and Bill's Russian is whatever he has retained from the Russian to English book from the Junie High library. Which I doubt is much.

 

Though I do think he has already gained her trust. His kindnesses are the few she is receiving during this time. Oswald, when he isn't beating her, has her completely under his thumb. He refuses to teach her English, or to let anyone else teach her. They are as poor as church mice, and Marina's has almost no contact with people beyond Lee and her daughter. On top of that, he is also constantly threatening to send her back to Russia. Which in reality was the last thing she wanted to do.

 

Marina really was living a pretty harsh existence, and this was all before JFK ever visited Dallas. So she's got that to look forward to.

[lucindabelle]

Real question: what happened to the Oswalds' baby? She'd be 51 or 52 now?

[Lebanna]

I believe they actually had two daughters. I have no idea what happened to them (they're private citizens, it's not their fault their dad did what he did) but I hope they grew up and are living a nice life somewhere.

[shapeshifter]

I believe they actually had two daughters. I have no idea what happened to them (they're private citizens, it's not their fault their dad did what he did) but I hope they grew up and are living a nice life somewhere.

I agree, but here's a recent article that does mention their ages in 2013:

http://nypost.com/2013/11/01/now-a-granny-oswalds-widow-snapped-for-first-time-in-25-years/

I posted another article about Marina in the media thread:

http://forums.previously.tv/topic/36360-112263-in-the-media-time-traveling-conspiracy-theories/#entry2041259

[Lebanna]

I'm glad to see that she's moved on but I hope people stop bothering an elderly woman doing her shopping. But then, it is the NY Post. They love to scrape the barrel.

[reggiejax]

I believe they actually had two daughters. I have no idea what happened to them (they're private citizens, it's not their fault their dad did what he did) but I hope they grew up and are living a nice life somewhere.

 

By all accounts, Oswald's daughters, June and Rachel, grew up to live normal lives. They do not speak very often about their father and the assassination, usually only during the bigger anniversaries, and they keep their opinions, their public opinions anyway, rather open ended. Neither stating their father was the lone assassin (as Oswald's brother Robert has stated) nor stating he was a patsy, completely set up and absolutely innocent, as Marina now believes. Marina had earlier accepted the Warren Commission's conclusions, but over the years, not without some influence from conspiracy researchers, she has changed her mind and believes Lee is innocent.

 

Though despite this change in thinking, her testimony has remained basically unchanged over the years, particularly about the facts of the backyard photos. From day one she has maintained she took those photos at Oswald's request, and she has not changed anything about that. And to be sure, there has never been any mention of George de Mohrenschildt being present at the time the photos were taken, as portrayed during this episode. However, the "hunter of fascists" line was something Oswald inscribed on the copy he gave to de Mohrenschildt.

[Guest]

I think he put it on a, uh, strange place. Why anyone would want to is another question.

And then why he would wear it on his wedding night and put his unsuspecting wife's hand on it?  Apparently he could get it up even after she laughed at him, so why bother?  

 

I'm having trouble staying interested and missing details.  But I'm guessing Sadie's going to get killed by her ex and Mr. Smitten is going to have to deal with saving her before JFK.  Jake will pre-kill her killer like he did the other guy and have more trouble dealing with himself being a killer again.  Maybe he eventually pre-kills Oswald, saving them all, but then JFK, Sadie and the janitor's family all die from some other event(s) Jake set in motion.  I'm pretty bad at guessing stories, though, and I think King is a good storyteller so I'm probably way off.

[bilgistic]

So, Principal Deke and Miss Mimi are totally a thing, right?

His attitude at Jake for calling her "Mimi" instead of "Miss Mimi", the way he held back from embracing her when she was having her coughing fit, his brusqueness when Jake asked where Miss Mimi was and then immediately leaving (as if to go check on her), and his lecture about "private relationships" and his intimate knowledge of the Hideaway Bungalow place............all make me think Miss Mimi and Deke are totally a couple.

Also, he wouldn't hire Jake until Jake answered a question from Miss Mimi and got Mimi's approval as it were.

Okay, I've convinced myself - DEKEMI 4EVA!

I don't want to be spoiled, so I'm not reading about this in the other threads, but this would make sense as to why she seems to have a lot of power and pull as a school secretary--even for today. I certainly don't remember my (white) high school secretaries saying whatever they felt in the early 1990s. She's rather outspoken, particularly as a black woman, like when she sharply told Jake he needed to be reminded of the dress code. Hell, *I* constantly have to hold my tongue in front of my YOUNGER male boss; I'm a white female 41-year-old marketing assistant.

[ganesh]

I love the running joke of Jake coming up with something from movies and TV of the (in 1963) future. I don't think Mimi believed his "Godfather II" story but she didn't want to blow the whistle on him either.

 

I really liked that the show pointed out that people don't know what the mafia is in 1962/1963. I'm crossing my fingers that there is mafia involvement in the assassination, and I'm hoping this was a deliberate reference rather than Jake being funny. Which it was too. 

 

It never ceases to amaze me that people back then just left their doors unlocked.

 

To be fair, the locked could have been picked. 

 

I didn't understand the clothespin thing at all. At first I thought it meant her husband was a woman pretending but that is obviously not true.

 

I thought that too. Then Sadie said 'she laughed' and I got really confused. And I'm no prude. Bad bad bad move on Jake's part to drop that he knew.

 

If I went back to the past, they would think something was up because I'd (over)use the words "cool" and "awesome".

 

I would think that even in the classroom, there's going to be words he uses that just aren't colloquial. Jake could pass it off as, "oh, I'm from New England, so there's different slang." I'm surprised there's not more of that. 

 

I can buy what's going on with Bill. Jake is basically just ordering him around, and I think Marina is closer to his age than Jake. Listening to them all day, and her being beaten would be difficult for anyone. 

 

One thing I like is that just by being there, Jake is affecting everything. We have no idea what these people's lives were like in the 'prime' timeline. He could actually be making Sadie's life worse. We don't know what Bill's life would have been like either. Even though he was a young bartender, he could have grown up and been mayor, and fairly well-respected in the town. I tend to think Bill is right; Jake shouldn't be involved with anyone. 

 

My two theories are: Jake finds out the real truth about the assassination but can't stop it, and Bill dies in the process. Jake resets, with the same result and different circumstances, and just keeps looping to the point where he's an old man and realizes he can't change it. Or, he actually is successful, but stays in the past to live it out. Turns out that things actually are *worse*, and as an old man in the 80s, when the Cold War doesn't end, finally realizes he screwed it up, resets himself and let's it go.

 

I'm hoping for a bad ending. 

[atomationage]

I watched the beginning of this with Oswald practicing with the gun.  I don't think I can watch any more of this.