S06.E12: Not Tomorrow Yet

[Eyes High]

One thing I didn't notice until I looked at stills from the episode is that Carol appears in 6x12 to be wearing the same hooded jacket she wore for her "Wolf" disguise, i.e. the one she took off the first Wolf she killed. Using it as a disguise is one thing, but repurposing an item you stripped off a dead enemy to be part of your wardrobe? Damn, that's cold.

[GodsBeloved]

Glen and Heath ended up in the Saviours' armoury. Did ithe group take the arms or leave them? Hilltop could make use of the stash.

[GodsBeloved]

Anyone else besides me have a weird thing while watching the episodes; I have to keep reminding myself that this Jesus is a human man and not the son of God come down to earth. It doesn't help my perception that the character has otherworldly skills, he saves people, he listens to confessions, is rocking the long hair/beard and looks like every picture of Jesus that I've ever seen.  Just me?

In Revelations, Jesus is described as having hair of wool and skin like bronze so TWD's Jesus doesn't fit his description. Also if this was the real Jesus he'd be raising the dead thus solving the problem hee!

[NoWillToResist]

Glen and Heath ended up in the Saviours' armoury. Did ithe group take the arms or leave them? Hilltop could make use of the stash.

 

When they exited the building, I think they were checking the grounds; I don't think they were all specifically leaving (just Tara and her partner for their mission). I presume, had shit not gone south, that the others would have continued investigating the place, to scavenge what they could, load up their vehicles and head back to ASZ.

 

They hadn't even found the food stash that the Hilltop guy said was in a silo or something...

Edited March 10, 2016 by NoWillToResist

[BasilSeal]

I completely agree with your stance on Morgan. The only good thing is that he's very public about his beliefs so if anyone were to get stuck with him on a mission, you kind of know that you can't count on him to have your back and kill the person about to kill you. ;)

 

 

Morgan is getting a bit of a rough deal from the writers at the moment.

 

I'm assuming that one of their key themes is how on retains one's humanity whilst doing all the violent things needed to survive in the TWD universe. by making the pre-emptive strike on the Negan B team, aren't they just as bad as the Governor when he attacked the Prison? Tara reminds us of this when she says she's done this sort of thing before to Jesus and the cowardly vicar. They also make a big thing of showing us that killing isn't without cost to the killer, and hence is best avoided, *but* there is always a chance for redemption as Morgan finds out from his mentor Eastman, who used to asses prisoners who'd committed violent crimes for their suitability for release.

 

Trouble is, as with most of TWDs writing it's done in such a clumsy way, instead of creating complex morally compromised characters who progress logically towards their eventual end they just make the characters constantly flip flop between two extreme view points nearly every episode. Daryl thinks finding new people is a good idea, Rick thinks it isn't. then they both do a complete about face, Carol thinks kill first then ask questions, now she doesn't want to kill. Morgan's point of view is quite a valid one, but it's presented in such a clumsy way that it just makes him look like a bit of a dick.

[CletusMusashi]

I'm just bugged by the fact that Morgan is obsessed with building a jail when there are way better things to get done. I mean, the problem wasn't lack of a cell. The problem was lack of a community that was unified in what they wanted to do with the prisoner.

Like, maybe if he pulled the stick out of his ass and used it to kill some zombies, he could have helped Carol gather food.

Or given the construction workers a hand. Or Lori'd up and done some damn laundry. Boring jobs are jobs too.

Even though I disagree with his extreme, stupid, and shallowly literal version of "all life is precious," I can still understand that some people would be that way and would therefore not be ideal for military service. But except for sort of helping against the wolves before he proved that he can't tell the difference between "neutral" and "objective," have we seen this guy do anything whatsoever to earn his keep? 

[Caelicola]

Yeah, BasilSeal, the writing on this show has mostly been nebulous at best (and not in a "this show really makes you think!" way, in a "this doesn't make any sense unless I fanwank it into submission" way).

So, my personal fanwank for all the about-faces is:
- Daryl met a bunch of bad dudes who STOLE THE LOVE OF HIS LIFE - his bike (he's rarely been as angry as he was when the Savior rode it out of the compound), so he started thinking that he doesn't want any new people, who might be thieving thieves too and steal something else from him (his collection of squirrels? his winged vest? his hair grease? who knows).

- Rick "inspired" the Alexandrians through the sheer power of crazed reckless rampage, and now he thinks he can do the same with anyone else he meets, so he wants to convert new people to the Grimes ways of bloody murder and make himself a nice little gang of serial killers.

- Someone, during the Anderson family wipeout, heard Sam's internal monologue in Carol's voice, and told Carol about it, so now she feels guilty and feels she has to repent. Also, she's really tired of baking cookies, but if she doesn't, who will?!

- Morgan had other commitments until this season, so he wandered all of the South killing people and milking goats off screen, because his one joy, his peanut butter protein bar, was taken from him ahead of its time, and that messed up his psyche big time.

[Eyes High]

- Someone, during the Anderson family wipeout, heard Sam's internal monologue in Carol's voice, and told Carol about it, so now she feels guilty and feels she has to repent. Also, she's really tired of baking cookies, but if she doesn't, who will?!

I think it's likely that Carol found out from Rick et al. that Sam had a freakout when they were surrounded by walkers and put two and two together. Carol's many things, but she's not stupid. It's poor writing to force the fans to make that assumption, though. There's giving your audience some credit by not spelling everything out for them and then there's forcing your audience to fill in the blanks. I think leaving out a scene where Carol finds out what happened to Sam drains a lot of the power out of Carol leaving the cookie at the grave, since it's possible that she's leaving it because she's sad at Sam's dead as opposed to feeling guilty.

 

Daryl met a bunch of bad dudes who STOLE THE LOVE OF HIS LIFE - his bike

Laughed out loud at this.

Edited March 10, 2016 by Eyes High

[CletusMusashi]

Yeah, for a split second there I actually thought "Beth."

Consider me punked!

[LeeMoon]

Carol didn't have to know what Sam was thinking in order to feel guilty. She wasn't nice to him and that's enough to make someone feel guilty when an innocent child like him dies. She left the cookie for him out of guilt and sadness. Carol was also mean to cigarette lady and that got that lady killed right as the wolves attacked since she went outside to smoke, right in front of Carol. Carol's guilt and sadness didn't just drive her to bake cookies, she also picked up smoking.

[AngelaHunter]

have we seen this guy do anything whatsoever to earn his keep?

 

Other than being judgemental and stealing much-needed food and medicine to keep his murderous prisoner healthy? Hmm - short answer? Nope. He's just a liability and a drain on resources. I vote with Rosita to throw his ass out

[Pete Martell]

I think it's likely that Carol found out from Rick et al. that Sam had a freakout when they were surrounded by walkers and put two and two together. Carol's many things, but she's not stupid. It's poor writing to force the fans to make that assumption, though. There's giving your audience some credit by not spelling everything out for them and then there's forcing your audience to fill in the blanks. I think leaving out a scene where Carol finds out what happened to Sam drains a lot of the power out of Carol leaving the cookie at the grave, since it's possible that she's leaving it because she's sad at Sam's dead as opposed to feeling guilty.

 

In one sense, I think not having Carol have an immediate reaction was a mistake, because they'd had a number of big scenes together and leaving her out of his final moments felt like a cheat. But I don't think that viewers were forced to fill in the blanks to know she felt guilty. All of her scenes in this episode were about guilt and regret. I thought that episode was poorly written, but I think this one handled her guilt pretty well, and for the show, fairly subtly.

So, my personal fanwank for all the about-faces is:

- Daryl met a bunch of bad dudes who STOLE THE LOVE OF HIS LIFE - his bike (he's rarely been as angry as he was when the Savior rode it out of the compound), so he started thinking that he doesn't want any new people, who might be thieving thieves too and steal something else from him (his collection of squirrels? his winged vest? his hair grease? who knows).

 

I took it less as Daryl not wanting any new people and more as Daryl getting a bad vibe off Jesus and thinking he wasn't to be trusted. This on top of the recent carnage in Alexandria and his terrible experiences with other outsiders. He was both wrong and right about Jesus, as Jesus is a decent man, but Jesus was also planning to steal the food they'd found and the only reason he decided to ask for their help with Hilltop is because they knocked him out/brought him back to Alexandria and he realized they were capable.

Edited March 10, 2016 by Pete Martell

[BasilSeal]

Yeah, BasilSeal, the writing on this show has mostly been nebulous at best (and not in a "this show really makes you think!" way, in a "this doesn't make any sense unless I fanwank it into submission" way).

 

Spot on, i think it's a sure sign that the writing is flawed when you have to start thinking up prosaic justifications for why a character has just done something that doesn't on the face of it make sense or fit with what we'd expect from their established character, but this happens all the time on TWD, where characters make complete about faces, withhold vital information from others for no apparent reason and do really stupid and illogical things just to drive the plot and create tension.

It's frustrating, because it's a really interesting concept, whether the group can remain 'good people', (a phrase that is constantly repeated), despite some of the awful acts of violence they commit, some of which are necessary for survival, some of which are acts of revenge like killing the terminus revenants. (though arguably this was also justified because they'd have gone on to kill others, as the wolves that Morgan spares do). Rick tell the governor outside the prison that they can all hold hands and live together in peace, but by the time he's reached Alexandria he's all for killing the Alexandrians and having the place for himself. but rather than feeling that these are morally complex and conflicted characters like say, Boyd Crowther in justified, it just feels like they are idiots who can't make their minds up.

[Caelicola]

It's frustrating, because it's a really interesting concept, whether the group can remain 'good people', (a phrase that is constantly repeated), despite some of the awful acts of violence they commit, some of which are necessary for survival, some of which are acts of revenge like killing the terminus revenants. (though arguably this was also justified because they'd have gone on to kill others, as the wolves that Morgan spares do). Rick tell the governor outside the prison that they can all hold hands and live together in peace, but by the time he's reached Alexandria he's all for killing the Alexandrians and having the place for himself. but rather than feeling that these are morally complex and conflicted characters like say, Boyd Crowther in justified, it just feels like they are idiots who can't make their minds up.

That particular switch I actually bought, because along the way he met dudes who wanted to rape his kid and actual cannibals, so a loss of any kind of hope for the decency of humanity at large was, for once, pretty justified, I felt.

But in general I sadly agree that, more often than not, the heavy lifting of putting together pieces of characterization, or plot threads, or unexplained interactions is left for the audience to do.

So, I have increasingly elaborate headcanons that explain away almost everything that happened, but they're mostly farfetched and absolutely unlikely.

 

(Now "Actual Cannibal Shia Laboeuf" is stuck in my head on a neverending loop. Yay.)

[Pete Martell]

Rick tell the governor outside the prison that they can all hold hands and live together in peace, but by the time he's reached Alexandria he's all for killing the Alexandrians and having the place for himself. but rather than feeling that these are morally complex and conflicted characters like say, Boyd Crowther in justified, it just feels like they are idiots who can't make their minds up.

 

I never felt like Rick just couldn't make his mind up - his mind was made up for him. The Governor not only ignored his plea, but killed a man he saw as almost like a father. Carl was nearly raped, and Michonne likely would have been raped and he, Daryl, Carl and Michonne all would have been killed. He had doubts about Terminus and he was proven right. He had doubts about the plan to go to DC and was proven right. He had doubts about the plan to save Beth, and he was proven right. 

 

I don't think he ever wanted to kill everyone in Alexandria - he wanted to take it over because he felt the people were stupid and weak. And that's part of the problem with the writing, is that they want to have it both ways. They were trying to say he was unstable, yet he was also right - Deanna was stupid and weak. 

 

I think the main idea was supposed to be that Rick was in a very dark place, and the hopefulness of those closest to him (Daryl, Michonne) would pull him back. That could have worked, but it was pissed on when they made Jessie the focal point of his existence. If not for Jessie and the Andersons, I'd say Rick's narrative has been more than believable throughout his run on the show. That story just about ruined the character beyond repair for me. I feel like he's back on track now, but he never should have gotten off track in the first place. Jessie's role in his life was a sexist, retrograde piece of tripe.

 

A lack of cohesive narrative and a repetitive, unbalanced overreliance on the "what must you do to survive" conflict are my main complaints with the show. They always try to say that people are going too far, and some voice of truth must remind them not to let go, but I feel like other than Hershel, they have gotten this wrong (Dale), wrong (Tyreese), wrong (Morgan). Morgan bothers me the most because he could have been so much more and they have all but destroyed him. 

 

The thing that gets me is I really thought they got it right in this episode. 

 

- there was no preaching 

- there were no endless monologues or dialogues about "how far is too far"

- we were shown that just because the characters were doing bad things did not mean they were not impacted by the weight of their actions  

- Morgan's POV was treated respectfully in the narrative but not given so much weight that it overshadowed the rest of the material (as happened in JSS) 

 

And I wish they got it right like this more often, especially in the last two seasons, where poor Tyreese in particular sometimes just ended up looking like a complete and total moron because he existed solely to be the arbitrary angel of goodness. 

[jsbt]

I don't think the show said Deanna was stupid or necessarily weak. I'm sure there's elements of the audience which thought so because there seems to be a real black and white "weak/strong" viewpoint with certain fans.

 

I think they presented Deanna as a well-intentioned woman with real plans for a better future who was not fully aware of the harsh realities of the outside world encroaching upon Alexandria. She got an education but she also had to die before seeing her dream truly realized.

 

I do think the show has been schizoid on Rick and his views at times, especially when Kirkman steps into the fray on an episode. But I think they presented Rick as wrong about Alexandria by allying everyone rational - from Michonne to Daryl - against him until he had his sobbing epiphany at Carl's bedside. Rick was right about the world out there, but wrong about people and the future. I think Scott Gimple's vision of the show is ultimately hopeful, but it also says that hope is constantly under siege. I'm not sure what Kirkman's view would be, and I think sometimes Gimple's work knocks up against that.

 

That being said, there's also subjective elements we can agree or disagree on: Some of the stuff people think are clumsy in the writing I think are just more deft or delicate vs. spelled out. Other things, like Tyreese or Morgan, I think are genuinely just tiresome. There's good characters buried in there but both these dudes basically do the same thing, whine about the cruelty of this world ineffectually while more layered characters have been and are approaching the same issues in a more intelligent and nuanced way.

Edited March 11, 2016 by jsbt

[Pete Martell]

I don't think the show said Deanna was stupid or necessarily weak. I'm sure there's elements of the audience which thought so because there seems to be a real black and white "weak/strong" viewpoint with certain fans.

 

I think they presented Deanna as a well-intentioned woman with real plans for a better future who was not fully aware of the harsh realities of the outside world encroaching upon Alexandria. She got an education but she also had to die before seeing her dream truly realized.

 

I think that was the idea with Deanna (certainly she was presented in a much more positive light than Gregory). There were times when I thought she came across as quite stupid (allowing the son that died to have so much of a role when he was obviously not mature enough), but I probably shouldn't have said stupid. I mostly meant that in the end I felt like she pretty much totally came around to Rick's way of thinking, as her mistakes helped lead to losing her husband and son and then many citizens of Alexandria. I kind of wish there'd been more of a middle ground where he also realized some of her ideas worked. Maybe she should have been his Jessie (minus the "new Mrs. Rick Grimes" media appearances).

[jsbt]

But that's what he did come around to, IMO - that's what Michonne did (and she said that to Deanna's face before she died) and told him, that's what Rick realized and told Carl. He may not have said it to her on her deathbed, I honestly can't recall, but Rick did come around to her way of thinking just as she came to some of his.

Edited March 11, 2016 by jsbt

[Caelicola]

I think I'm veering waaaay off topic, but the Rick-Deanna of it all is something I actually felt was done pretty well, in that both ended up recognizing the validity and limitations of the other's position; she adapted to his, but was also still pretty confident of the rightness of hers at the end, and he maintained his own until his eyes were opened that, on its own, his brutality has no future and no meaning. They both conceded the other had a point, Rick's was more useful in the immediate future and Deanna's is vital for the future. So, that I really liked. I also really liked, in this episode, that everyone looked a bit queasy about what they were going to do, without too many scenes where they told us how and why they were uncomfortable with killing people in their sleep. But then Rosita hit us with "We don't want to kill, it happens", which was a little on the nose and not really needed.

What I personally have trouble reconciling with aren't those choices, decisions, and changes of opinions that can be traced back to the experiences the characters have gone through, but with those actions and interactions that go against character beats that have been quite well established in the course of the show. So, not changes in attitude, those happen and are often explained (sometimes ad nauseam, actually), but outright changes in personality to move the plot along, or justify a disagreement that otherwise wouldn't have happened. I'd go into examples, but I don't want to hijack the episode thread, because I didn't really have a problem with any character motivations in this one.

I still enjoy the show, and there are some genuine nuggets of brilliance, and I don't really mind overthinking motivations so that they make sense to my own personal sensibilities, I just see the point of those who would prefer not to have to.

[Nashville]

In Revelations, Jesus is described as having hair of wool and skin like bronze so TWD's Jesus doesn't fit his description. Also if this was the real Jesus he'd be raising the dead thus solving the problem hee!

 

Bet it was a helluva shock to the B.C.-to-A.D. Middle Eastern Semites to find out the King of the Jews was a long-haired European.

 

 

I don't think the show said Deanna was stupid or necessarily weak. I'm sure there's elements of the audience which thought so because there seems to be a real black and white "weak/strong" viewpoint with certain fans.

 

I think they presented Deanna as a well-intentioned woman with real plans for a better future who was not fully aware of the harsh realities of the outside world encroaching upon Alexandria. She got an education but she also had to die before seeing her dream truly realized.

 

Agree.  Deanna wasn't stupid, she was ignorant - and I mean ignorant in the sense of being uninformed:

• Uninformed about the realities of life outside the walls of the ASZ.
• Uninformed about how sheltering the vast majority of ASZHats from those realities, while convenient in the short term to maintain the peace, would have long-term deleterious consequences to their survival potential by reducing the perceived need for additional defensive measures and training.
• Uninformed about the individual character weaknesses of her own two golden boys Aiden and Spencer, to the point of Aiden's death.  Makes me wonder who Reg might have been screwing around with.

 

These compounded disconnects with reality were Deanna's Achilles Heel - to the point of her death, and the death of many in the ASZ.

[CletusMusashi]

Deanna was stupid for immediately putting what appeared to be a batshit crazy killing machine in charge of the town's law enforcement, without actually telling him what the laws were, or what the the punishments were supposed to be, or who was allowed to beat their family as much as they wanted. Was Denise on vacation that week?

[peach]

I think they presented Deanna as a well-intentioned woman with real plans for a better future who was not fully aware of the harsh realities of the outside world encroaching upon Alexandria.

She was a Congresswoman, so that pretty much sums it up.

 

 

Deanna was stupid for immediately putting what appeared to be a batshit crazy killing machine in charge of the town's law enforcement, without actually telling him what the laws were, or what the the punishments were supposed to be, or who was allowed to beat their family as much as they wanted.

 

Right?  My favorite line of hers, "You see a problem...you solve it."  To Rick Mofo Grimes.

[BasilSeal]

That particular switch I actually bought, because along the way he met dudes who wanted to rape his kid and actual cannibals, so a loss of any kind of hope for the decency of humanity at large was, for once, pretty justified, I felt.

 

 

It's justified by events but i don't think it's played out as a convincing character development for rick, it just happens, and rick has flipped between these two disparate positions several times already: Saving Randal > not saving the hitchhiker > offering to help the fruit hippies, and so on.

 

I think what they're trying to do is highlight the conflict between the necessities of survival and the desire to retain some humanity, ie to stay "good people" in a world where often one survives at the expense of others. (I suspect the concept of surviving at the expense of others will be a key theme of FearTWD, but that's another topic). Unfortunately they don't succeed and rather than the characters being conflicted they just come across as unconvincing, because they act seemingly out of character and constantly change their positions without convincing character development, these changes are just presented as having happened and we as the viewers have to justify them to ourselves. or not.

 

Take the story arc with Jessie. Presumably, she represents the safe family life that rick has been searching for ever since he woke up in the hospital? The twist being he's got to kill porch dick to get this. With this minor obstacle out of the way, he's all set to settle down to domestic bliss with his new wife and the children whose father he murdered but oops, she's been eaten, Oh well, just have to go with Michone instead.

 

Now i'm assuming that this is what her story arc is supposed to be about and that her relationship with Rick is supposed to add to his character's development, but in the end it's like the only reason for her to be there is to set up the final 'iconic' comic scene where she gets eaten. So it's another narrative dead end, like the hospital cops, or The Wolves, (assuming we've finished with the wolves now, there's a load of unresolved question about them, like what was the connection between them and Edith? and why do they create those limbless walkers?)

 

Now the wolves, and again i'm filling in the blanks here, appear to believe that in the post apocalyptic world man should eschew the trappings of civilisation like houses and dental hygiene products and go back to being hunter gatherers (an idea they nicked from the original BBC Survivors series), but just when it looks like we might find out exactly what they're all about Carol goes and shoots the only one in captivity.

 

Anyway, despite my many gripes i do enjoy the show, i just wish the characters were fully rounded, believable human beings, rather than cartoon cyphers who keep doing frustratingly dumb things just to drive the plot, but then as Kirkman him self would no doubt reply "Yeah, i know rick said the exact opposite last week but...LOOK! over there! Zombies, I mean Walkers, how cool is that?"

[Pete Martell]

It's justified by events but i don't think it's played out as a convincing character development for rick, it just happens, and rick has flipped between these two disparate positions several times already: Saving Randal > not saving the hitchhiker > offering to help the fruit hippies, and so on.

 

I think these actions tend to ebb and flow based on where Rick is in his life. He was in conflict with Shane and was still trying to hold onto some semblance of humanity with Randall; he didn't save the hitchhiker because he was still freefalling from Lori's death, which he blamed himself for over not being more directly ruthless; he wanted to help the hippies because of what Hershel taught him. 

 

I think at his core Rick wants to always do the right thing. It's just that the right thing becomes very dark and nasty depending on where he is mentally. He would have taken over Alexandria, even if it had led to heavy casualties, because he thought he was saving them from themselves. The Rick of the moment is a mix of both men - he's not a monster, but he can't let people, or even himself, see any conflict. That's why he gutted that Hilltop guy without any regret - not just to save his own life, but because he no longer has time or energy to angst over how the guy had just been trying to help his brother, and give peace a chance. 

 

I do agree with you about Jessie. I've always understood Rick. Always. Not that I am pooh-poohing anyone who doesn't - it's just my own opinion. The Jessie story took that away for me and I wish I could erase it from existence...along with Dale and Dawn and the Governor's bad pirate beard and that embarrassing episode where Andrea led the cowering townspeople of Woodbury through strength and wisdom.

[Scaeva]

Last one might be a little long, but whatever. I can't believe that people are still hating on Morgan for the terrible sin of considering the possibility of putting some thought in before going on a murder spree.  Yes, in light of all the facts, our group probably was right to go on the offense, but he raised a very valid point.  I don't think it's wrong in this world to value non-walker life as pretty precious.  But I know, a lot of people disagree with me on that.  As for Abraham, what he did to Rosita was mean, but I don't think he needs to die for it.  People break up, it happens. I didn't like the way he did it either but then I've been broken up with a number of times and never once liked the way it was done.  I never once felt that any of them should be killed for it. Clearly I'm more of a pacifist than I realized.

 

My issue with Morgan isn't that he voiced reservations about preemptively murdering a bunch of people in cold blood. Someone voicing concerns about the group crossing that road I can understand, even if that preemptive attack is the pragmatic thing to do. Where Morgan irks me is in advocating that the two groups sit down and have a chat. They knew enough about the Saviors at that point to know they aren't the type of people you can have a reasonable discussion with. Morgan knew they were were extorting other survivors, had murdererd members of Hilltop and were demanding Gregory's head, and had tried to robb and kill Darryl, Sasha, and Abraham on the road. Yet he calls for the two groups to sit down and talk it out, warning the Saviors before going to war with them. That's full on Stupid Good territory. The only diplomacy those people would understand comes at muzzle velocity.

 

I'm not saying that Abraham should die for treating Rosita horribly either, or that people deserve to die for breaking up with other people. Obviously in the real world no one deserves to die just for being a shitty boyfriend. These are fictional characters however, and Abraham treating Rosita like garbage makes him  unsympathetic. It is hard to be invested in a character's fate when they spend most of their time on screen being selfish and needlessly cruel. If the writers shortly after kill him...I can't imagine that many would care.

Edited March 12, 2016 by Scaeva

[AngelaHunter]

I can't believe that people are still hating on Morgan for the terrible sin of considering the possibility of putting some thought in before going on a murder spree.

 

I don't think anyone hates him because of that alone. His suggesting the way to avoid conflict with a murderous group by talking to them and saying, basically, "My dog's bigger than yours," was just the straw that broke the camel's back. He sounds demented. I guess he forgot how doing that with the Wolves - "Off you go. Be good boys and don't hurt anyone anymore. Don't forget to take the gun. Bye now."  - didn't really work out all that shit hot. Not wanting to murder strangers is one thing but sabotaging the people who took you in by letting their killers go free to kill again just so he can feel good about himself is quite another.

[mornnoch]

R stands for Randall. She voted for a teen to be killed. The list is of people where she had a choice, let them live or kill/be a part in killing them. Can explain candlewoman 4, too. The deaths were she had a choice haunt her.

[Raven1707]

The Live +3 Ratings are in for this episode:

 

 

Per usual, “The Walking Dead” added the most adults 18-49 and viewers for the week. It grew by 2.7 points in adults 18-49 (6.1 to 8.8) and by about 4.91 million viewers. [Total: 17.723 million viewers]

 

http://tvbythenumbers.zap2it.com/2016/03/13/cable-live-3-ratings-feb-29-march-6-2016/#

[Macbeth]

Carol - white is never in season during a zombie apocalypse.  At first I thought Carol was on the chopping block when I saw all the blood, then I realized it was a symbol for all of the humans Carol has killed.

 

I liked the wedding Rick conducted in the church.  He was marrying his congregation to killing.  When he spoke the phrase "speak now or forever hold your peace" is when it dawned on me that I was actually watching a wedding.  TWD has to pick up that slack now that Downton Abbey is over.   

 

Of course Morgan spoke up, but Rick made it pretty clear that this was a shot-gun wedding.

[missy jo]

Abraham is dead to me. That was a horrible way to treat someone you care(d) about LAST WEEK!

[SyncMaster]

When Carol and Rosita were talking about Morgan what kind of a puta did Rosita call him?  I can never make out the first Spanish word or so.

 

Daryl must have still been in mourning over his crossbow when they invaded that outpost: he had a fly assed shotgun and he never fired it.  The one time that he used it was as a club to beat some dude's brains out.

[praeceptrix]

When Carol and Rosita were talking about Morgan what kind of a puta did Rosita call him?  I can never make out the first Spanish word or so.

I haven't rewatched, but I am fairly certain she called him "hijo de puta" (son of a whore).

[Nashville]

I haven't rewatched, but I am fairly certain she called him "hijo de puta" (son of a whore).

Works for me.

[Raven1707]

Here are the Live +7 ratings for "Not Tomorrow Yet":

 

"The Walking Dead" was, unsurprisingly, the biggest beneficiary of delayed viewing in the week of Feb. 29-March 6. The show grew by 3.2 points (6.1 to 9.3) in adults 18-49 and by 5.78 million viewers in the Live +7 ratings. [12.816 million to 18.597 million]

 

http://tvbythenumbers.zap2it.com/2016/03/21/cable-live-7-ratings-feb-29-march-6-2016/

[allthatglitters]

Someone explain to me why Rick & Co. don't just go out and find their own damn food.  It seems a harsh emotional price to pay not to mention the physical risk to carry out this kill mission for some other group so that they will give you food.  Partly we have learned, is that the crops need a season to grow yet. (Why didn't Alexandria already have a thriving garden system?-but I digress) Protein could still be hunted, we've seen Daryl provide. And I cannot believe that every house, building, barn, and store have already been stripped bare for miles in every direction, when in previous episodes they don't seem to have a problem finding food supplies. Where do the Hilltoppers shop?

 

They could steal wild overgrown fruit and vegetables on farms, they could even water and tend gardens or orchards outside their gates, and pick whatever grows and bring it back in trips. Why be dependent on another larger group for your food based on the "favors" you do for them?  Especially such potentially costly favors. Its too bad Morgan didn't just shout this back at Rick. He would have grown two sizes that day.

Edited April 11, 2016 by allthatglitters