Erika vs Kathryn: Whose Side Are You On?

[nowcheckthat]

 

Initially I feel like the vast majority were on Erika's "side" when Kathryn threw her under the bus. However, looking at some comments on here it was pointed out to me that Erika was kinda sneaky because, face to face, Erika showed no signs that she wasn't completely into LVP and maybe Kathryn was taken aback by her comments.

 

So whose 'side' are you on? WWHL did a similar poll and Andy even commented that it wasn't as much of a landslide as he expected it to be and I actually feel like this forum is a fairer representation of what people think.

[tinaw]

I'm team Erika. Kathryn made the comment that she wanted to be Erikas' friend and basically said that what they were talking about was between the two of them. At least that's how I heard it. I don't think it's wrong of Erika to give the new girl some advise. Who to be careful of. Unfortunately she picked the wrong girl to try to help.

[SoCal4Us]

Kathryn took the bait and got caught in Erika's web lol...Erika doesn't seem to say most anything without premeditation.

[zoeysmom]

I think the rule of inevitable discovery applies.  There was no upside to keeping Erika's comments from LVP.   Her comments weren't offhanded-she first attempted to elicit similar comments from Kathryn and all she got was positive.  I believe her comments were designed, much like one of her see through catsuits to get plenty of air time. There is a part of me that believes that Erika did it intentionally knowing it would put her center stage with LVP.  Erika had to have sensed the Kathryn was somewhat aligned with LVP over the Faye thing.  What I didn't understand is why Erika kept asserting LVP was manipulating as a side sniper-her comments to both Eileen and Faye were straightforward.  The discussion with Yolanda although circuitous thanks to Eileen and Yolanda's ignorance regarding her children was also straightforward.  The idea LVP can't talk to the father of the children to ascertain the well being is just another ludicrous Yolanda claim.

 

Reluctantly for the above reasons I have to go with Kathryn.  There was no upside for keeping Erika's filmed secrets.

[motorcitymom65]

With regard to their interaction, I am most definitely on Erika's side. This is despite the fact that I think Erika is a lousy person in general, and I assume I will end up being right when I commented after her first episode that she is basically just Brandi with a husband and money. Regardless, there is zero way to excuse away what Kathryn did. It's like the Game Night deal to me. I loved Kyle (still do) and understood there were a ton of other dynamics at play. Still, at some point you have to say "wrong is just wrong" regardless of who the other person in the equation is or how horrible they are. Kathryn wouldn't be in this position had she issued a heartfelt apology, or acknowledged in any way she had done the wrong thing. She blew it off and actually said it was all on Erika. WTF is that about? She also mocked Erika horribly in the retelling to the other gals. Of all the things we have debated in this site over years and years, this is easily the most clear cut one for me. I hate them both.

[WireWrap]

Kathryn 

 

   Erika knew it was filmed, she knew that LisaV would find out, be because she would eventually see the scene, that Kathryn would talk to another HW about it and they would tell Lisa or that Kathryn, herself, would tell....Erika KNEW Lisa would find out.

[jinjer]

Erika.  IMO there is no rule of inevitable discovery on HWs.  We don't know if Erika was going to tell LVP how she felt herself at some point.  Kathryn had a one on on with Erika and told her she would be her friend. If Kathryn had such strong feelings for LVP, she should have told Erika, "She's my friend, I don't feel comfortable with where this is going, and I want to shut it down."  She also didn't tell LVP that Erika agreed that she thought LVP was sweet. I think Erika and LVP are alike, and down deep Erika admires LVPs qualities of not showing her hand. If they hadn't had the talk at Remy's, then the beach scene w/ Yolanda may have been quite different. 

[Duke Silver]

Fire both into the sun as far as I'm concerned.  :yawn:

[Reo]

I think the rule of inevitable discovery applies.  There was no upside to keeping Erika's comments from LVP.   Her comments weren't offhanded-she first attempted to elicit similar comments from Kathryn and all she got was positive.  I believe her comments were designed, much like one of her see through catsuits to get plenty of air time. There is a part of me that believes that Erika did it intentionally knowing it would put her center stage with LVP.  Erika had to have sensed the Kathryn was somewhat aligned with LVP over the Faye thing.  What I didn't understand is why Erika kept asserting LVP was manipulating as a side sniper-her comments to both Eileen and Faye were straightforward.  The discussion with Yolanda although circuitous thanks to Eileen and Yolanda's ignorance regarding her children was also straightforward.  The idea LVP can't talk to the father of the children to ascertain the well being is just another ludicrous Yolanda claim.

 

Reluctantly for the above reasons I have to go with Kathryn.  There was no upside for keeping Erika's filmed secrets.

 

This is exactly how I feel, too.  Kathryn was in a no-win situation because there is no way her conversation with Erika wouldn't play on camera.  Either she told the other ladies what she knew, or have them all come down on her hard after it aired.

 

Dammit, zoeysmom, now I have to change my vote from "can't stand either of these broads" to lamely support Kathryn.  In this instance, Erika's malice shines through.  First, she makes Kathryn feel special and honored by telling her she can't stand women because they are lying, sneaking, ho's but she'll make an exception for Kathryn, then she tells her something that's akin to a time bomb.  Whatever Kathryn does, she's in the wrong with someone - I guess it's now obvious to us all what her choice was.  Better to be hated by one than many.  I do think that Erika has her own agenda, LVP is in her targets, and Kathryn was her dupe.  

 

So given the nature of the show, who makes more entertaining TV?  One thing you can say about Erika, she makes a more interesting and nuanced villain than the past seasons.  Yolanda is her stepping stone into the show, not her friend - association with her immediately positions Erika at odds with all of Yo's non-friends (defined as anyone who does not support her 110%).  Kathryn is a deer in the headlights and not terribly smart.  I'm willing to see where Erika goes with this, but only in a can't-turn-my-eyes-away manner.  I think LVP has a battle on her hands.

Edited March 6, 2016 by Reo

[zoeysmom]

Erika.  IMO there is no rule of inevitable discovery on HWs.  We don't know if Erika was going to tell LVP how she felt herself at some point.  Kathryn had a one on on with Erika and told her she would be her friend. If Kathryn had such strong feelings for LVP, she should have told Erika, "She's my friend, I don't feel comfortable with where this is going, and I want to shut it down."  She also didn't tell LVP that Erika agreed that she thought LVP was sweet. I think Erika and LVP are alike, and down deep Erika admires LVPs qualities of not showing her hand. If they hadn't had the talk at Remy's, then the beach scene w/ Yolanda may have been quite different. 

Well there is a rule of inevitable discovery when it is being filmed.  If they have it on film and it is controversial it will come out and maybe not on an episode but it will come out.  It doesn't matter if Erika was eventually going to tell her.  They were shitty comments and bared repeating. Time and context is very secondary.  It is not on Kathryn to go on the offensive on regards to her opinion about LVP, she stated it nor is it  given she must  to correct or shut  Erika down.  Erika never agreed that LVP was sweet-she launched into the side sniper bit.  Erika has been pretty good about put her two cents in about others and throwing out statements, why is she so offended when others repeat it. 

 

Another thing that bugged me is Erika had no qualms discussing the conversation with Eileen.  So she wasn't even bound by he own confidentiality rules. I am not buying coincidence that Eileen also cited the Hamptons as the base for the allegations leveled against LVP.  Erika doesn't believe in coincidence   and in this case I don't  either.

[thewhiteowl]

They both did something rather shitty. Erika did it first when she misrepresented a conversation she was part of to Yo. She may not have said anything but she didn't shut it down either. Kathryn may have had good intentions before realizing she had stepped in a pile of poo. I can't know that but it did seem that way. She didn't shut it down either. Erika was playing friendly to LVP IMO and would have been blind-sided if Kathryn hadn't spilled. I don't think Yo would have been. So in debating levels of shittiness, I think Erika was shittier and shadier. So I have to go with Kathryn.

I think "confidentiality" is a non-issue when you are on a reality show. JMO

[motorcitymom65]

I think the rule of inevitable discovery applies.  There was no upside to keeping Erika's comments from LVP.   Her comments weren't offhanded-she first attempted to elicit similar comments from Kathryn and all she got was positive.  I believe her comments were designed, much like one of her see through catsuits to get plenty of air time. There is a part of me that believes that Erika did it intentionally knowing it would put her center stage with LVP.  Erika had to have sensed the Kathryn was somewhat aligned with LVP over the Faye thing.  What I didn't understand is why Erika kept asserting LVP was manipulating as a side sniper-her comments to both Eileen and Faye were straightforward.  The discussion with Yolanda although circuitous thanks to Eileen and Yolanda's ignorance regarding her children was also straightforward.  The idea LVP can't talk to the father of the children to ascertain the well being is just another ludicrous Yolanda claim.

 

Reluctantly for the above reasons I have to go with Kathryn.  There was no upside for keeping Erika's filmed secrets.

I think there was a lot of upside in keeping her mouth shut.  Look at what has happened to her since. She has had to take down her Twitter account.  This is stunning to me. She has been on the show maybe 4 or 5 episodes, only has probably another 4 or 5 to go, and yet she has shut down her social media voice. This show is in large part driven by social media, so she is at a disadvantage. Let's face it, Yo has about a handful of fans left (from what I've seen), and LVP still rules the world. Despite having the backing of LVP, she is getting hammered. This reality cannot be overstated. In the past, a gal could do something really horrible if LVP backed her up, like for instance maybe out someone's surrogacy, and they would have the vast majority of people making excuses for them and throwing them parades. They would be forgiven, but people who dared to point out that they were wrong would be threatened in the most heinous of ways. This has all turned and I am not sure what to make of it. 

 

More than likely she went home after shooting that scene, realized that she had sat mum during the conversation, which makes it look more like she was engaging in gossip, and decided to try and find a way out for herself. She would know she looked bad, because she had portrayed herself as someone who says what she thinks. She hardly knew Erika and yet she felt comfortable in lecturing her about using the "c" word. She went off on Kyle at her own party about Faye. Now she sits and listens as Erika badmouths LVP, and she offers nothing in the way of small support for LVP. It could have been so damned easy. "I had no idea you felt that way about her. You seemed to like her. She has been nothing but kind to me". She didn't have to disagree, or make a big deal about it. Just something small to let the world and LVP know she didn't agree. She did none of that, and I will imagine she was worried after the fact. There is zero upside in what she did. LVP will support her now, but she will never in a million years trust her, which means that they won't ever be close.  The more interesting thing in my mind would be how the vote in this little HW election we have here would be different if LVP would have come out in her blog and said she thought that Kathryn was wrong. That she appreciated the heads up, but that betraying a confidence is never OK. My thoughts are that Kathryn would have exactly zero support in that instance.  I am still preparing myself for the fact that LVP will say that at the reunion. I honestly think that she will. 

Edited March 6, 2016 by motorcitymom65

[zoeysmom]

I can't imagine that things got so bad on Twitter that she had to take it down.  This is such an insignificant occurrence that it seems over reactionary or she has decided not to return to the show.  I get the impression she is easily humiliated and not terribly bright.  I feel as if it was unwise for her to bring up Faye Resnick and equally stupid to bring up when Eileen dated Marcus.  It is almost as if she wants to know but she doesn't want it to hurt.

[WireWrap]

I think there was a lot of upside in keeping her mouth shut.  Look at what has happened to her since. She has had to take down her Twitter account.  This is stunning to me. She has been on the show maybe 4 or 5 episodes, only has probably another 4 or 5 to go, and yet she has shut down her social media voice. This show is in large part driven by social media, so she is at a disadvantage. Let's face it, Yo has about a handful of fans left (from what I've seen), and LVP still rules the world. Despite having the backing of LVP, she is getting hammered. This reality cannot be overstated. In the past, a gal could do something really horrible if LVP backed her up, like for instance maybe out someone's surrogacy, and they would have the vast majority of people making excuses for them and throwing them parades. They would be forgiven, but people who dared to point out that they were wrong would be threatened in the most heinous of ways. This has all turned and I am not sure what to make of it. 

 

More than likely she went home after shooting that scene, realized that she had sat mum during the conversation, which makes it look more like she was engaging in gossip, and decided to try and find a way out for herself. She would know she looked bad, because she had portrayed herself as someone who says what she thinks. She hardly knew Erika and yet she felt comfortable in lecturing her about using the "c" word. She went off on Kyle at her own party about Faye. Now she sits and listens as Erika badmouths LVP, and she offers nothing in the way of small support for LVP. It could have been so damned easy. "I had no idea you felt that way about her. You seemed to like her. She has been nothing but kind to me". She didn't have to disagree, or make a big deal about it. Just something small to let the world and LVP know she didn't agree. She did none of that, and I will imagine she was worried after the fact. There is zero upside in what she did. LVP will support her now, but she will never in a million years trust her, which means that they won't ever be close.  The more interesting thing in my mind would be how the vote in this little HW election we have here would be different if LVP would have come out in her blog and said she thought that Kathryn was wrong. That she appreciated the heads up, but that betraying a confidence is never OK. My thoughts are that Kathryn would have exactly zero support in that instance.  I am still preparing myself for the fact that LVP will say that at the reunion. I honestly think that she will. 

Yolanda still has a lot of fans, especially ones that do not read sites like this one or blogs that call Yolanda out on her lies, Erika has a growing fan base, and  Brandi (believe it or not) still does have fans and these are the people that were going after Kathryn on twitter. They were rabid and relentless. I don't think Kathryn has thick enough skin to withstand this sort of viewer attack and instead of just blocking people or making her account private it appears she chose to close her account. I think by her own accord, she will be a one and done.

[Vicky8675309]

I put neither because they both are wrong and stupid. I don't care for either of them. I'm team anti-Yo.

[lunastartron]

By definition, there is no confidence to betray vis-a-vis a discussion that occurs in front of a camera. A number of posters on this very board furiously insisted that it was incontrovertible evidence of Lisa's intellectual dishonesty that she tried to rationalize her questions about the origins of Eileen's marriage as a private discourse between two friends since the dialogue transpired on set. Well, the same standard applies whenever Rinna pulls Rinna aside to seek one-on-one counsel and it applies here, too. Additionally, Kathryn had just watched Erika literally scream at a guest in her own home to divulge the source of the Munchausen speculation because it was such a pearl-clutch-worthy horror that said nameless individuals were "saying shit about her!" Erika has touted herself as the ne plus ultra of honesty, transparency, and telling it like it is. In that context, why shouldn't Kathryn conclude that Erika would have no problem with these sentiments being communicated to Lisa, particularly considering Erika never specified that they were secret? If it's Kathryn's responsibility to meet some litmus of vigor when defending Lisa or declining to disparage her, then the onus is certainly on Erika to clearly delineate what she doesn't want repeated.

[motorcitymom65]

By definition, there is no confidence to betray vis-a-vis a discussion that occurs in front of a camera. A number of posters on this very board furiously insisted that it was incontrovertible evidence of Lisa's intellectual dishonesty that she tried to rationalize her questions about the origins of Eileen's marriage as a private discourse between two friends since the dialogue transpired on set. Well, the same standard applies whenever Rinna pulls Rinna aside to seek one-on-one counsel and it applies here, too. Additionally, Kathryn had just watched Erika literally scream at a guest in her own home to divulge the source of the Munchausen speculation because it was such a pearl-clutch-worthy horror that said nameless individuals were "saying shit about her!" Erika has touted herself as the ne plus ultra of honesty, transparency, and telling it like it is. In that context, why shouldn't Kathryn conclude that Erika would have no problem with these sentiments being communicated to Lisa, particularly considering Erika never specified that they were secret? If it's Kathryn's responsibility to meet some litmus of vigor when defending Lisa or declining to disparage her, then the onus is certainly on Erika to clearly delineate what she doesn't want repeated.

I personally love this new line of thinking, and wonder if it will always hold true for future conversations, and if it will be retroactive for old ones. Tamra and Heather would have taken a lot less heat on the OC show for repeating stuff they had learned on camera about Shannon and her marriage. By this thinking, they were almost heroes who were doing more of a public service than gossiping. Both made the statement that since it was said on camera, they didn't see that at a big confidence was being broken. I agree that none of these people had an expectation of privacy. That doesn't address whether a person is wrong for betraying a trust. If I leave my front door open I have zero expectation my home will be safe, which doesn't mean that someone coming in and taking my belongings isn't in the wrong.

What I find interesting is that no one who is voting is addressing the comment that Kathryn made about Erika's face. That it didn't move and that she cried "like 6 tears". The looks on the other gals faces was priceless. Honestly, I dislike her more for this than the other thing.

[WireWrap]

I personally love this new line of thinking, and wonder if it will always hold true for future conversations, and if it will be retroactive for old ones. Tamra and Heather would have taken a lot less heat on the OC show for repeating stuff they had learned on camera about Shannon and her marriage. By this thinking, they were almost heroes who were doing more of a public service than gossiping. Both made the statement that since it was said on camera, they didn't see that at a big confidence was being broken. I agree that none of these people had an expectation of privacy. That doesn't address whether a person is wrong for betraying a trust. If I leave my front door open I have zero expectation my home will be safe, which doesn't mean that someone coming in and taking my belongings isn't in the wrong.

What I find interesting is that no one who is voting is addressing the comment that Kathryn made about Erika's face. That it didn't move and that she cried "like 6 tears". The looks on the other gals faces was priceless. Honestly, I dislike her more for this than the other thing.

I really disliked Kathryn mocking Erika for crying even though I personally felt it was fake and she had to force those few tears. I think Kathryn's point was that SHE thought it was fake and said it to give further proof that Erika IS fake overall. That said, it did lowered her almost to the same level I find Erika at, which IS pretty low.

[lunastartron]

But Heather and Tamra didn't learn information about Shannon on camera - most of the data they gleaned came from outside parties who were not participating in the show. There's a million miles of daylight between that and a primary cast member issuing comments on set. If I recall correctly, when Shannon did confide in Tamra in front of a camera crew, she expressly stipulated that she did not want her marital troubles shared: another significant disparity between that entire imbroglio and Erika's remarks. As for Kathryn's editorializing about Erika's face . . . It certainly wasn't kind but I just interpreted it as her fashion of responding to what she perceived as Erika's disingenuousness. I don't find Erika's aloofness and reticence unusual in the capacity of the story about her grandmother but I can definitely understand why her abrupt and dismissive "whatever" and segue into castigating Lisa would telegraph as ersatz.

[zoeysmom]

I personally love this new line of thinking, and wonder if it will always hold true for future conversations, and if it will be retroactive for old ones. Tamra and Heather would have taken a lot less heat on the OC show for repeating stuff they had learned on camera about Shannon and her marriage. By this thinking, they were almost heroes who were doing more of a public service than gossiping. Both made the statement that since it was said on camera, they didn't see that at a big confidence was being broken. I agree that none of these people had an expectation of privacy. That doesn't address whether a person is wrong for betraying a trust. If I leave my front door open I have zero expectation my home will be safe, which doesn't mean that someone coming in and taking my belongings isn't in the wrong.

What I find interesting is that no one who is voting is addressing the comment that Kathryn made about Erika's face. That it didn't move and that she cried "like 6 tears". The looks on the other gals faces was priceless. Honestly, I dislike her more for this than the other thing.

I think what the issue, at least for me is, that both Tamra and Heather lied about repeating the information and then tried to gaslight Shannon later at Lizzie's party.   What Tamra heard on camera she repeated and not to garner sympathy for Shannon.  Tamra repeated to Heather on camera, and then Heather repeated to a group of people and the information got back to the other woman and David.  I also thought Shannon had zero expectations of privacy but Tamra should not have agreed not to pass the information around if in fact that is what she wanted to do.  What Heather did that was stupid was protect Tamra as her source.  It was on camera and any grief she got for protecting Tamra was deserved.

 

If you have conversations in your home being filmed then you do have zero expectations of privacy.  By the same token it doesn't give the filming crew the right to steal your stuff.  They are very different issues.  I also don't believe if you don't lock your home you deserve to be burglarized.  The law is clear-breaking is not an element of unlawful entry. 

[grisgris]

I'm really on nobody's side.

 

My question is why would you offer your steadfast friendship to a person you barely knew? Kathryn could have saved face if she'd approached Erika as "I'd like to get to know you better." That way, she's dipping her toe in the water without having a shark bite her foot off.

 

Kathryn looks foolish, as well as not too bright (not to mention untrustworthy) with her backpedaling. "I offered my friendship before Erika started throwing shade [sic] at Vanderpump ..." 

 

If I were any of the other HWs, I wouldn't believe or trust a single word that came out of Kathryn's mouth from this point forward.

[HunterHunted]

I put neither because they both are wrong and stupid. I don't care for either of them. I'm team anti-Yo.

It's so funny because before I saw the choices in the poll my answer was "neither because I can't stand either of these shady heifers."

[motorcitymom65]

But Heather and Tamra didn't learn information about Shannon on camera - most of the data they gleaned came from outside parties who were not participating in the show. There's a million miles of daylight between that and a primary cast member issuing comments on set. If I recall correctly, when Shannon did confide in Tamra in front of a camera crew, she expressly stipulated that she did not want her marital troubles shared: another significant disparity between that entire imbroglio and Erika's remarks. As for Kathryn's editorializing about Erika's face . . . It certainly wasn't kind but I just interpreted it as her fashion of responding to what she perceived as Erika's disingenuousness. I don't find Erika's aloofness and reticence unusual in the capacity of the story about her grandmother but I can definitely understand why her abrupt and dismissive "whatever" and segue into castigating Lisa would telegraph as ersatz.

Yes, Shannon told Tamra in front of a camera crew. Tamra was wrong to repeat that information even though she knew we would learn of it. She initially lied when she denied telling Heather, but tried to call Shannon back that same night and own up to the lie. We saw that when Tamra shared this gossip with Heather that she was trying to make Heather feel some sympathy for Shannon; that she wanted her to like Shannon. There was zero malice from Tamra (who I hate). Regardless of the cameras and the intent, she was hated for the season. Regardless of the fact we would have found out. Remember that Shannon also did a scene where she went to the doctor with heart palpitations and told us in her TH about the email from David. This was before the scene where she learned about Heather. Shannon was talking about this, yet was mad about the others. No situation is ever exactly the same. The point becomes should we judge these women for their behavior just because of the cameras? Should it get them a pass or not? I thought that Tamra was wrong because her behavior was wrong. I don't think it was unforgivable and I didn't think that Shannon should have been so hard on her for all time after she saw the context of the conversation. I think the same about Kathryn. She was wrong, but should she apologize and own up to what she did (she hasn't at this point), she could be forgiven.

[jaync]

I feel as if it was unwise for her to bring up Faye Resnick and equally stupid to bring up when Eileen dated Marcus.

​Kathryn didn't first bring up Faye, Kyle did. And, while Kathryn may have handled the situation at the BBQ better than she did, as a contracted HW it would've been remiss if she hadn't somehow addressed the elephant in the room (or "orangutan" at the table, as it were). TMCFR - forever thirsty since S1 - didn't have to agree to film at the event at all.

 

Marcus cheating with whomever makes him look bad, not Kathryn. Eileen should be thankful that she wasn't asked if she was married herself when she went out with Marcus.

[zoeysmom]

​Kathryn didn't first bring up Faye, Kyle did. And, while Kathryn may have handled the situation at the BBQ better than she did, as a contracted HW it would've been remiss if she hadn't somehow addressed the elephant in the room (or "orangutan" at the table, as it were). TMCFR - forever thirsty since S1 - didn't have to agree to film at the event at all.

 

Marcus cheating with whomever makes him look bad, not Kathryn. Eileen should be thankful that she wasn't asked if she was married herself when she went out with Marcus.

That is not what Kathryn said she felt when Faye wrote about Marcus' womanizing.  So she cant have it both ways.  I don't know why she wanted to know when Eileen dated her ex-husband.  I think the two of them handled it well. 

[WireWrap]

That is not what Kathryn said she felt when Faye wrote about Marcus' womanizing.  So she cant have it both ways.  I don't know why she wanted to know when Eileen dated her ex-husband.  I think the two of them handled it well. 

Kathryn has said from the get go she was upset at what Faye wrote about HER, not what was written about Marcus Allen. As for when Eileen dated him, I think she wanted to see if it was after they became engaged or even after they were married and I agree, both handled an awkward situation well.    

[zoeysmom]

Kathryn has said from the get go she was upset at what Faye wrote about HER, not what was written about Marcus Allen. As for when Eileen dated him, I think she wanted to see if it was after they became engaged or even after they were married and I agree, both handled an awkward situation well.    

Kathryn's name came up as a result of Marcus' womanizing and her alleged responses.  There would have been no Kathryn mention in Faye's book. 

 

In a way I think that is one of the reasons she told LVP.  I believe Kathryn from her previous reactions, would not want someone else she had no reason to dislike to be judged based on another person's perception of their feelings or actions.  There was absolutely nothing redeemable about Erika's comments.

[WireWrap]

Kathryn's name came up as a result of Marcus' womanizing and her alleged responses.  There would have been no Kathryn mention in Faye's book. 

 

In a way I think that is one of the reasons she told LVP.  I believe Kathryn from her previous reactions, would not want someone else she had no reason to dislike to be judged based on another person's perception of their feelings or actions.  There was absolutely nothing redeemable about Erika's comments.

Kathryn has said that Faye didn't need to mention her at all and I agree. If Faye needed/wanted to mention Allen, she could but she didn't need to talk about/mention someone, Kathryn, she had never met/talked to or even seen face to face in her book, really there was no need. Also, Kathryn's alleged response was NOT first hand knowledge with Faye, it was second/third hand info at best. LOL

 

I think Kathryn told LisaV because she saw the snake rear its ugly head for the first time and knew without a doubt that the snake was slithering up to Lisa only so she could get close enough to bite her with venomous teeth. She knew Lisa only saw a cute bunny mirage and NOT the viper. LOL

[princelina]

If I were any of the other HWs, I wouldn't believe or trust a single word that came out of Kathryn's mouth from this point forward.

  Agreed.  She made way too big a deal of wanting to be Erika's trustworthy confidant, followed by the WAY she told (super eager to tattle; in front of the entire group; making fun of Erika, etc.) and then her flippant "Oh well, that's on you!" when Erika asked her about it.  The combo of behaviors made her look like an ass.

[jaync]

That is not what Kathryn said she felt when Faye wrote about Marcus' womanizing.

I was addressing the comment about Kathryn being stupid in regards to her conversation with Eileen, not her feelings on what TMCFR wrote.

[motorcitymom65]

 

 

I think Kathryn told LisaV because she saw the snake rear its ugly head for the first time and knew without a doubt that the snake was slithering up to Lisa only so she could get close enough to bite her with venomous teeth. She knew Lisa only saw a cute bunny mirage and NOT the viper. LOL

I don't agree, but if this were the case, I think I would trust her even less now. She isn't saying any of that. She makes it clear in her blog that she had no "ill will". She didn't think it was a big deal to tell LVP, because she didn't think what Erika was saying was a big deal. She wasn't trying to warn LVP, because she was convinced that Erika would have told LVP to her face. That is where her argument is so stupid and why you can see she is floundering. She says over and over again there is no betrayal because she was convinced that this wasn't something that Erika would have tried to keep from LVP, even though Kathryn is confused as to why she feels like this. This is just the point where you either apologize, or you speak your truth and say "I just thought LVP deserved to hear that someone was talking crap about her". The way she is playing it - "it's all on you"- just makes her look like an ass. 

Edited March 7, 2016 by motorcitymom65

[zoeysmom]

Kathryn has said that Faye didn't need to mention her at all and I agree. If Faye needed/wanted to mention Allen, she could but she didn't need to talk about/mention someone, Kathryn, she had never met/talked to or even seen face to face in her book, really there was no need. Also, Kathryn's alleged response was NOT first hand knowledge with Faye, it was second/third hand info at best. LOL

 

I think Kathryn told LisaV because she saw the snake rear its ugly head for the first time and knew without a doubt that the snake was slithering up to Lisa only so she could get close enough to bite her with venomous teeth. She knew Lisa only saw a cute bunny mirage and NOT the viper. LOL

Kathryn was married to Marcus at the time of the murder.  Marcus' womanizing and especially his affair with Nicole was in many folks minds a trigger for OJ.  I think it is a pretty common follow up question to ask what the wife position was with a philandering husband.  So simply saying there was no need to mention Kathryn-OJ had mentioned her and Marcus as a couple.  Faye cited her source of information.  I still maintain Kathryn's anger is misplaced she should be mad at her ex and should have moved on by now.  Especially given her soft spot for addicts.

 

I didn't read Kathryn's blog but if she thinks her comments were benign regarding Erika or that Erika was gutsy enough to tell LVP then I think she will be as wishy washy as Rinna come Reunion time.  I still don't think she did anything wrong by passing on Erika's words-between it being on camera and Erika's prior behavior it seems to be behavior standard.

 

To me what it boils down to is rookies making wildly odd responses to situations.  Erika going on about Kathryn and LVP asking her how long she had known Yolanda.  Well she and Yolanda brought that on themselves when little things like neither of them claiming they have never scene the other's act, raises a few questions not only as to the length but as to the depth of their friendship.  Since Erika claims she must tell her sick friend about others' conversations, and lies about the fact afterwards seems to cast doubt on her sincerity.  Kathryn's responses are just odd, I guess it will come down to what Kathryn says to the group.  Just as Erika said she would never treat a guest the way Bethenny treated her in her home, I think Erika needs to take a look at her behavior when she is screaming at Rinna, in her home.  It seems Kathryn was a little miffed at Erika for her treatment of her in her home.  These two women are just oddly inappropriate or are being prompted by production.

[WireWrap]

I don't agree, but if this were the case, I think I would trust her even less now. She isn't saying any of that. She makes it clear in her blog that she had no "ill will". She didn't think it was a big deal to tell LVP, because she didn't think what Erika was saying was a big deal. She wasn't trying to warn LVP, because she was convinced that Erika would have told LVP to her face. That is where her argument is so stupid and why you can see she is floundering. She says over and over again there is no betrayal because she was convinced that this wasn't something that Erika would have tried to keep from LVP, even though Kathryn is confused as to why she feels like this. This is just the point where you either apologize, or you speak your truth and say "I just thought LVP deserved to hear that someone was talking crap about her". The way she is playing it - "it's all on you"- just makes her look like an ass.

Anything is possible and I still think Kathryn was shocked with what Erika said about Lisa. Also, Kathryn has heard Erika say that she doesn't hide her feelings/opinions yet she was with Lisa and Kathryn knew that Erika had no problems playing runtelldat herself with Yolanda. LOL 

Kathryn was married to Marcus at the time of the murder.  Marcus' womanizing and especially his affair with Nicole was in many folks minds a trigger for OJ.  I think it is a pretty common follow up question to ask what the wife position was with a philandering husband.  So simply saying there was no need to mention Kathryn-OJ had mentioned her and Marcus as a couple.  Faye cited her source of information.  I still maintain Kathryn's anger is misplaced she should be mad at her ex and should have moved on by now.  Especially given her soft spot for addicts.

 

I didn't read Kathryn's blog but if she thinks her comments were benign regarding Erika or that Erika was gutsy enough to tell LVP then I think she will be as wishy washy as Rinna come Reunion time.  I still don't think she did anything wrong by passing on Erika's words-between it being on camera and Erika's prior behavior it seems to be behavior standard.

 

To me what it boils down to is rookies making wildly odd responses to situations.  Erika going on about Kathryn and LVP asking her how long she had known Yolanda.  Well she and Yolanda brought that on themselves when little things like neither of them claiming they have never scene the other's act, raises a few questions not only as to the length but as to the depth of their friendship.  Since Erika claims she must tell her sick friend about others' conversations, and lies about the fact afterwards seems to cast doubt on her sincerity.  Kathryn's responses are just odd, I guess it will come down to what Kathryn says to the group.  Just as Erika said she would never treat a guest the way Bethenny treated her in her home, I think Erika needs to take a look at her behavior when she is screaming at Rinna, in her home.  It seems Kathryn was a little miffed at Erika for her treatment of her in her home.  These two women are just oddly inappropriate or are being prompted by production.

Addressing the note from OJ that does mention Kathryn has nothing to do with what Faye wrote in her book, which was nothing more than gossip as she never heard that from Kathryn herself. Again, talking about Allen would be expected as she knew him personally but she had never met Kathryn or talked to her so she could not be sure if the gossip was true of just someone else's opinion.

 

As for Kathryn's blog, she kind of gets wishy washy, she now says she wishes she handled it differently. LOL She needed to stick to her guns and say that she told LisaV because Erika was NOT trying to be her friend but was undermining her instead. As for Erika's umbrage that both Lisa/Kathryn asked how long she/Yolanda have known each other, that is because SHE has a guilty mind IMO. She fears them (us) finding out that she is really the side shooter of the group, that she is a hired gun. LOL

[zoeysmom]

Anything is possible and I still think Kathryn was shocked with what Erika said about Lisa. Also, Kathryn has heard Erika say that she doesn't hide her feelings/opinions yet she was with Lisa and Kathryn knew that Erika had no problems playing runtelldat herself with Yolanda. LOL 

Addressing the note from OJ that does mention Kathryn has nothing to do with what Faye wrote in her book, which was nothing more than gossip as she never heard that from Kathryn herself. Again, talking about Allen would be expected as she knew him personally but she had never met Kathryn or talked to her so she could not be sure if the gossip was true of just someone else's opinion.

 

As for Kathryn's blog, she kind of gets wishy washy, she now says she wishes she handled it differently. LOL She needed to stick to her guns and say that she told LisaV because Erika was NOT trying to be her friend but was undermining her instead. As for Erika's umbrage that both Lisa/Kathryn asked how long she/Yolanda have known each other, that is because SHE has a guilty mind IMO. She fears them (us) finding out that she is really the side shooter of the group, that she is a hired gun. LOL

Faye stated whose opinion it was.  Gossip isn't necessarily untrue.  If Faye had said she was beautiful without ever meeting her it would still be gossip and someone else's opinion.  I think Andy summed it up best when asked why they didn't have Kris Jenner at the dinner-it would cost $50k. 

 

I agree Erika does have a guilty mind because she has so little commonality with Yolanda she makes up not only is Yolanda a friend, and a woman at that, but a good friend worth defending.   I think she is a side shooter and she has kind of shown where her compassion lies with others.  See scene where she sums up Kathryn's father's death and I don't even know what to make of the grandma story. 

[motorcitymom65]

 

 

I agree Erika does have a guilty mind because she has so little commonality with Yolanda she makes up not only is Yolanda a friend, and a woman at that, but a good friend worth defending.   I think she is a side shooter and she has kind of shown where her compassion lies with others.  See scene where she sums up Kathryn's father's death and I don't even know what to make of the grandma story. 

It's interesting though, the way the two women reacted to hearing sad stories of family members that have passed? Erika said that after learning of Kathryn's story that she understood her better.  Actually, what she said was that she liked her more after hearing about it. She went from thinking that Kathryn should be staying out of the Kim/Lisar drama (she should have stayed out of it), to changing her opinion and she owned up to it. Kathryn on the other hand mocked Erika in her retelling of Erika's reaction to talking about her Grandmother. I think someone above said it better, however, in that both of these gals are hard to root for - just in different ways and for different reasons. 

[zoeysmom]

It's interesting though, the way the two women reacted to hearing sad stories of family members that have passed? Erika said that after learning of Kathryn's story that she understood her better.  Actually, what she said was that she liked her more after hearing about it. She went from thinking that Kathryn should be staying out of the Kim/Lisar drama (she should have stayed out of it), to changing her opinion and she owned up to it. Kathryn on the other hand mocked Erika in her retelling of Erika's reaction to talking about her Grandmother. I think someone above said it better, however, in that both of these gals are hard to root for - just in different ways and for different reasons. 

Absolutely they are hard to root for and I think one of the reasons is they lack genuineness and are pretty superficial about physical appearances.  (Not that the others don't have their own issues with superficiality.)  Erika and her ridiculous alter ego and the gang of men fawning over her and Kathryn over snagging a hot, younger professional athlete.

[walnutqueen]

I give zero fucks about either one of them.

[Darren-5-08]

Team Kathryn. Erika was brought in as Yolanda's lapdog - no other reason.

[WireWrap]

Team Kathryn. Erika was brought in as Yolanda's lapdog - no other reason.

Which is why they also bring Brandi back of a scene or 2. LOL

[motorcitymom65]

Team Kathryn. Erika was brought in as Yolanda's lapdog - no other reason.

Completely agree. Yo needed a friend this season now that Brandi is gone. Kathryn on the other hand was brought on just because of the OJ connection. Neither one of them make the show better/more interesting IMO. 

[jaync]

Kathryn's name came up as a result of Marcus' womanizing and her alleged responses.

 Kathryn's name came up as a result of Resnick capitalizing on her friend being butchered to death. The general public may have never heard the gossip about Nicole and Marcus if not for her book, which was published in a hot second, and from which the tabloids excerpted.

 

Marcus' womanizing and especially his affair with Nicole was in many folks minds a trigger for OJ.

Only one of those "many folks" put the gossip out there in a book. And, unless O.J. himself confided in them, none knew the reason why Nicole and Ron were killed. It was and is speculation, fueled in full by Kyle's vile BFF.

[zoeysmom]

 Kathryn's name came up as a result of Resnick capitalizing on her friend being butchered to death. The general public may have never heard the gossip about Nicole and Marcus if not for her book, which was published in a hot second, and from which the tabloids excerpted.

 

Only one of those "many folks" put the gossip out there in a book. And, unless O.J. himself confided in them, none knew the reason why Nicole and Ron were killed. It was and is speculation, fueled in full by Kyle's vile BFF.

Kathryn's name came up because she was married to Marcus Allen, who was mentioned by OJ Simpson, along with Kathryn in a very public suicide note.  The prosecution wanted to use the Marcus Nicole connection but backed off.

 

This is just a little comment about witness statements, most of the time you want to get their statements in very close proximity to the events.  When Faye's book came out has little to do with her decision to go after OJ and in the process reveal TMI about Nicole.  Most people want their news fresh which is why it is called news instead of old tales or history.

 

Everyday prosecutors speculates as to motive.  So the idea Faye originated the idea of motive is just incorrect.  prosecutors don't wait around for defendants to confess they build their case and use things like witness statements.

[jaync]

Kathryn's name came up because she was married to Marcus Allen, who was mentioned by OJ Simpson, along with Kathryn in a very public suicide note. 

​There was no Marcus and Nicole connection/affair mentioned in O.J.'s note that was read to the public.

 

 

 

[Mya Stone]

We have a thread to discuss the OJ trial, y'all. Take the talk there please.

[Vicky8675309]

​There was no Marcus and Nicole connection/affair mentioned in O.J.'s note that was read to the public.

 

Kathryn was mentioned in the note

[Giselle]

I voted Katherine. Yes she blabbed but they are on a TV show. If it was to be kept secret then don't say it in front of a camera with a microphone stuck in your face. If Erica is stupid enough to voice her opinions on camera then that "stupid bitch" Erica ought to have realized it really doesn't matter when Lisa hears about what is being said behind her back, she will eventually hear about it. You have to be six levels of stupid  to think that production would not use that clip. I believe that is the reasoning Katherine used.

 

If "that cunt" Erica really owned her stuff (and she doesn't) she would have never invited Lisa and Ken to a dinner for she and her husband to schmooze over and then bad mouth her later. She would have told her thoughts and observations to Lisa to her face and not hide behind her husband's backhanded compliments. 

 

I think a lot less of Erica and of Tom.

[Yours Truly]

I'm team Erika. Kathryn made the comment that she wanted to be Erikas' friend and basically said that what they were talking about was between the two of them. At least that's how I heard it. I don't think it's wrong of Erika to give the new girl some advise. Who to be careful of. Unfortunately she picked the wrong girl to try to help.

I never took it as Erika giving advice at all so that's what really bugged me about the way Katheryn relayed that conversation. She made it seem like Erika was issuing some kind of warning when in fact all Erika was doing was sharing HER opinion about how she thinks Lisa operates. Not that she said anyone needs to be careful. It came across as Erika expressing that she's very aware of they way Lisa V handles situations and handles the ladies. Actually I think It was more about Erika trying to impress upon Kathryn that she's astute and nothing gets passed her and not so much Erika trying to put Kathryn on guard. Kinda like hey, check me out, I just got here and already I'm savvy enough to make this call about Lisa V. Now was it a favorable review? No but to me that's all it was. Her review of Lisa V, not some red alert that she was trying to beat Kathryn over the head with.

[Yours Truly]

I personally love this new line of thinking, and wonder if it will always hold true for future conversations, and if it will be retroactive for old ones. Tamra and Heather would have taken a lot less heat on the OC show for repeating stuff they had learned on camera about Shannon and her marriage. By this thinking, they were almost heroes who were doing more of a public service than gossiping. Both made the statement that since it was said on camera, they didn't see that at a big confidence was being broken. I agree that none of these people had an expectation of privacy. That doesn't address whether a person is wrong for betraying a trust. If I leave my front door open I have zero expectation my home will be safe, which doesn't mean that someone coming in and taking my belongings isn't in the wrong.

What I find interesting is that no one who is voting is addressing the comment that Kathryn made about Erika's face. That it didn't move and that she cried "like 6 tears". The looks on the other gals faces was priceless. Honestly, I dislike her more for this than the other thing.

I really hate the "on camera" excuse. It kills any real dialogue that can happen cause for some reason we watch as people who have basic human conditions but are expected to watch a reality show and suspend reality. This isn't a scripted show. It just isn't. No matter all the intricate details regarding filming, production influence, cast member experience or lack there of in front of the camera, it isn't a scripted show. There are elements of real behavior and I can only apply what I know to be basic human behavior to their actions. Adding all these artificial concepts and even worse creating alternate standards of personal interactions because "they know the camera's there ya'll" just spins everything into abstract where there can never be any rhyme or reason. I make allowances for the fact that the cameras are around cause I'm sure they do affect the cast members to a certain extent but I just can't theorize everything around the fact that these women "know" they are on a show, "know" that the cameras caught it, "know" that this one is going to do this that or the other with the information. I mean that would mean that we would have to watch the show with the idea that the cast members behaviors in that moment are based on the future behaviors of their cast mates as if they are 5 steps ahead at all times. That's just impossible. It just is.

[Umbelina]

The moments of "real" are few and far between anymore, for the most part now, although not scripted, it's all carefully planned.

 

That's why these shows are dying, they lost the spontaneity of "real."  The wives have wised up, and are careful.  They have a "lunch" or "charity event" or what the hell ever, but they go in with one or more of them knowing what "issues" or absent wives they are going to bring up, why they are (to avoid themselves being brought up in any real way usually) and bringing their pre-planned ammunition with them.  "Here is the text I got!"  or "A friend said 'Munchhausen'!" Or let's go show off my new pop up store and give me a chance to talk to people sympathetic to me about Kim, (the aunt, Bethenny.)  All planned, all fake as hell.  10 minutes of film on the show often takes 9 hours to shoot, and we've heard the wives say that.  Why?  Because they have to say lines again, because Bravo wants them drunk, because it takes time to set up lights, hell, they even completely stage their houses for the talking heads, moving furniture, adding different drapes, bringing their own flowers.  The dinner party from hell was one of the 9 hour shoots, but on the show, it looks like a normal 1 or 1 1/2 hour dinner!

 

Sure, we get those moments here and there, usually prompted by booze, which is why Bravo makes sure they all drink as much as possible.  Lipsa throwing the glass was real.  "You stole my goddamn house!" was real.  Camille Grammar (sober!) comparing herself to Jesus was real.  The dinner party from hell was a set up, but ended up with real moments anyway.  Hell, even Adrienne beginning to wash the chicken with dish-washing soap was a real moment in a very planned Lisa teaches her how to cook set up. 

 

As for this situation, you simply CAN NOT remove the fact of a film crew and cameras from it.  IF Kathryn and Erika had that conversation really off camera, Kathryn may have not only said more, asked more, ditto Erika, but the fact that LVP WOULD hear it would not exist.  Even if she did?  It would have been a "she said/she said" situation.  Cameras provided proof.  Kathryn not giving LVP a heads up about Erika's sneaky ways of "nice to your face, daggers in your back" would have put Kathryn at odds with LVP as well, or at least suspect.

 

I think Kathryn was surprised, thought it over, and made the logical conclusions that:

1.  Erika is a liar to one's face, and dangerous behind your back.  (do it to LVP, do it to me later?)

2.  LVP would eventually know, and she's a better ally than the dishonest Erika.

 

Kathryn may have been honest about the friendship offer, who knows?  I kind of think she was, UNTIL Erika showed her exactly what kind of "friend" Erika is.

Edited March 8, 2016 by Umbelina

[MatildaMoody]

IF Kathryn, had said to Ericka in the moment, "why are you saying these things when I thought you and Lisa were friends?" she could have had plenty of moral high ground not just in whether or not to report it to LVP, but also in calling Ericka out on her "I don't trust women" BS. Because, Ericka's pretending to be Lisa's friend while trash talking her to other people is exactly why she said she had issues with other women. So, it makes me side eye her stance on having women friends even more. Sounds to me like the real reason she had issues with women is because she was busted a time or two trash talking women who thought they were actually her friends.