S02.E13: Chapter Thirty-Five

[ElectricBoogaloo]

Jane and Michael are back together—almost! Jane attempts to get Rafael and Michael to reconcile, but it doesn't go well. While Rafael is sulking over losing Jane, he is ignoring Petra and her pregnancy needs. Xo and Rogelio have broken up over the baby issue, but they are still acting like a couple, something Jane sees as a problem. Rogelio hires a new assistant, Paolo, who appears too good to be true.

 

Promo:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YJTae3cQ2EQ

[natyxg]

I don't know, I'm still suspicious about Rose's death, specially after that mention tonight that she threatened blonde cop's family and that conversation the cop had with Michael about how she understood him now. I still don't completely discard that Rose faked her death and forced blonde cop to help her.

 

I like Micheal and Jane more than Jane and Rafael. I have since he stopped being shady, I'm glad they're giving them a chance, though tonight I kept remembering that ominous "Michael will love Jane until he dies" or however that line went, a while back.

 

I guess my head went to Rose not being dead and Michael dying as the big shocks for the season finale, lol. We'll see.

[tennisgurl]

I really thought Michael was going to die as soon as Jane started staring at him by the pool. I get the horrible feeling that he and Jane will be blissfully happy together until he dramatically dies in the season finale. Which sucks, but I really like him, and I love him and Jane. 

 

Poor Rogelio. I get why Jane stayed with her mom, but I think that she should have gone to the premier. She didn't mean to pick Xo over him, but that is what happened, even if it was a crazy stalker who said it. Speaking of that, #saverogelio. 

 

I watched Crazy Ex Girlfriend right before this, and I started humming "Dont Settle For Me" while Petra was telling Raf that she wouldn't be his second choice. 

[Gin and Tonic]

I'm really hoping Michael saves Rogelio. Can you imagine the new heights to which the bromance would soar???

[Artsda]

Rafael is really immature, he claims Michael's job is a danger? All the danger was from Rafael's psycho family members. Now there's a stalker on the loose and kidnapped Rogelio and again, a family member brought that danger. Then he does treat Petra bad by ignoring her attempts of having him be present, then going to her only after Jane tells him she's going to be with Michael, then he picks up a stranger in the hotel bar. Yet Michael's the bad one? 

 

I loved Rogelio's inner excitement over his bromance possibly being back and felt bad Jane basically dumped on him to support her mom at home. She should have still gone for her dad. 

 

Happy Jane is finally choosing Michael and that Michael would put her first every time.

Edited March 1, 2016 by Artsda

[galax-arena]

I guess my head went to Rose not being dead and Michael dying as the big shocks for the season finale, lol. We'll see.

Yeah, this is what I've been thinking. Maybe the two will be connected in that we'll find out Rose is alive when she has Michael (and Susanna) taken out. 

 

Liked seeing Jane call Rafael out on his double standards re: Petra vs Michael. 

 

Honestly, the only time I find Rafael interesting is when he's being a smarmy bastard, so I'm okay with his final scene at the bar. He's just so dull when he's moping over Jane and getting mad at everyone else. 

[twoods]

Jane and Michael always make me smile. They better not kill him off! I would probably stop watching because then this show would stop being cute and fun.

Good for Petra stopping Rafael. Him and Luisa really like hearing on downward spirals.

Oh Rogelio- I hope Michael saves you. I'm glad that he told Jane how he felt about being left alone at the premiere. This show is great at people talking about their feelings and not lying.

[vixenbynight]

So glad that Jane made it perfectly clear to Rafael that he cannot rightfully demand for her to end her relationship with Michael.

Yes, it's painful for him to hear those words, but she isn't in love with him.

I'm also glad that Petra didn't let her fall for Rafael's attempts to try and make him feel better. She's realizing that she deserves better for herself and those two girls that are about to blast from her body.

Xo and Rogelio will need to stop dancing/sexing around each other. They are still too much in love, for them to try and do the casual thing.

[Primetimer]

But can everyone get in the swing of things?

Read the story

[herbaltease]

Honestly, just have all parties go to court for visitation rights for Mateo. I could care less who Jane's eternal luv is. Both she and Rafael are guilty of using the kid as a bargaining chip and it paints them both in an unattractive light.

Jane, no one asked you to throw a party for Petra and the person responsible for pushing Alba down the stairs is behind bars. I'd feel les apathetic about the sanctimony I Jane didn't lord it over people.

[galax-arena]

She didn't really lord the stuff with Petra over anyone until Rafael decided that he couldn't get through one lunch with Michael. It's not wrong for her to call someone out on his hypocrisy. No, he didn't ask her to throw a baby shower, but he did ask her to help out with mom-related stuff. And he can't suck up one afternoon with Michael? She had every right to get sanctimonious about that IMO. And I'm saying this as someone who thinks that Jane can veer towards annoying self-righteousness. 

Edited March 1, 2016 by galax-arena

[Bouffe]

Before reading anyone's comments...

 

Rafael broke my heart. Of course he was going to revert to being a playboy. He's lonely, no family, feels rejected, feels like he's not even part of Mateo's life... 

 

I like Petra and Rafael together, but as friends. I think that's how they are best with one another.

 

Rogelio... You broke my heart too! Although that inner happy dance was a hilarious riot!

 

I don't like Jane with Michael.

 

Paola/Lola... Oh boy...  

[Bouffe]

I don't know, I'm still suspicious about Rose's death, specially after that mention tonight that she threatened blonde cop's family and that conversation the cop had with Michael about how she understood him now. I still don't completely discard that Rose faked her death and forced blonde cop to help her.

 

I guess my head went to Rose not being dead and Michael dying as the big shocks for the season finale, lol. We'll see.

 

I agree with you about Rose. Something very fishy is going.

 

I too kept thinking about Michael dying, and all I could think was that I hope Rafael will not be a second class citizen or a second choice for Jane (meaning Jane going to him after Michael passes away). All that talk from Petra about being a second choice/second class citizen made me think of that.

[Thalia]

I've been wondering if the inclusion of last week's "I am saving myself for marriage" flashback with Michael + the fact that J & M are reunited and feel so good = a season finale wedding.  It would prolong Jane's untouched status if Michael said let's go along with plan A and get married.  Michael's death at the reception would certainly kill the mood, along with the groom. 

 

My hope would be that in telanovela style Michael would not really be dead, just held somewhere by Mutter, his penis safely away from Jane for at least half of next season.  Followed by, I don't know, amnesia.  I don't think they've done that yet.  Cause I love me some Michael. 

Edited March 2, 2016 by Thalia

[natyxg]

I agree with you about Rose. Something very fishy is going.

 

I too kept thinking about Michael dying, and all I could think was that I hope Rafael will not be a second class citizen or a second choice for Jane (meaning Jane going to him after Michael passes away). All that talk from Petra about being a second choice/second class citizen made me think of that.

 

What I thought was that they could kill Michael and change the triangle from Michael-Jane-Rafael, to Petra-Rafael-Jane.

[galax-arena]

What I thought was that they could kill Michael and change the triangle from Michael-Jane-Rafael, to Petra-Rafael-Jane.

Only if you can promise me that the endgame ship is Petra/Jane. Hey, even Gina ships it. 

[dargosmydaddy]

 

This episode also totally failed to deal with any of Michael's avowed faults: possessiveness; a boring streak as wide as Florida itself; not being as hot as Rafael.

 

The possessiveness (and accompanying anger issues) I totally agree with, but the rest? To each their own, but Michael is way hotter than Rafael in my book. And as for boring... ??? His work scenes are admittedly way more boring than those of Rafael, but I don't think that's a reflection on the character. To me, Michael is personable, funny, etc., which makes him much more interesting than the rather wooden, humorless Rafael.

[natyxg]

Only if you can promise me that the endgame ship is Petra/Jane. Hey, even Gina ships it. 

 

I could ship this, yes.

[Cherdee]

I loved the Pushing Daisies tributes, from the narrator's "It had been 3 months, 5 days, 15 hours and 23 minutes since" to the synchronized swimmers <3 . I loved that show and I love this show.

[vixenbynight]

She didn't really lord the stuff with Petra over anyone until Rafael decided that he couldn't get through one lunch with Michael. It's not wrong for her to call someone out on his hypocrisy. No, he didn't ask her to throw a baby shower, but he did ask her to help out with mom-related stuff. And he can't suck up one afternoon with Michael? She had every right to get sanctimonious about that IMO. And I'm saying this as someone who thinks that Jane can veer towards annoying self-righteousness.

Jane really hasn't used all of the stuff that Petra and her mother Magda has done towards her and her family to get Rafael. She's actually been the only one out of Petra and Rafael consciously thinking about how their situation will effect the kids that will be apart of all their lives. This is total separate of "end game wishes".

Jane is thinking about these kids and wanting them to be as blended a family that they can be, without all of the adults trying to hurt each other.

[vixenbynight]

The possessiveness (and accompanying anger issues) I totally agree with, but the rest? To each their own, but Michael is way hotter than Rafael in my book. And as for boring... ??? His work scenes are admittedly way more boring than those of Rafael, but I don't think that's a reflection on the character. To me, Michael is personable, funny, etc., which makes him much more interesting than the rather wooden, humorless Rafael.

I don't find or categorize Michael as "boring, safe or the dreaded dull" that continues to be the main label used as a negative trait towards that character.

Rafael is complex, troubled, needy, lonely and desperately searching to establish a family that he can claim as his own.

I find that extremely troubling, because nobody, especially Jane and Mateo should be put in that role to try and make ALL of Rafael's hurt from his upbringing go away.

[Nanrad]

Does it bother anyone how irrational Rafael is? How completely unempathic he behaves? Jane's life was turned upside down when she got pregnant with Mateo. Like, it's lovely she fell in love with her baby and all, but let's not forget that this was not a wanted pregnancy. Her life plan has been severely altered because of Mateo and now he's essentially trying to capitalize on that? Trying to box her in more? Seriously?

This is actually something that bothers me A LOT.

 

Rafael tends to turn the situation into him not being unable to have kids and his mess up family without understanding that Jane was illegally inseminated and he's lick she didn't get and abortion and continued her lawsuit of Luisa. Instead of being happy that he has Mateo and Jane is trying to successfully co-parent with him, he wants a relationship and for them all to live together. It's not irrational to want that, but it is irrational to feel entitled to it. What's even more messed up is that he continues to try and discount Michael's significance to her for this dream of his. Regardless of where they were and are, Michael was incredibly important to her, enough so that she was going to marry him before Luisa did the wrong procedure. He needs to get over himself and go talk to someone to sort out his issues.

 

Jane, no one asked you to throw a party for Petra and the person responsible for pushing Alba down the stairs is behind bars. I'd feel les apathetic about the sanctimony I Jane didn't lord it over people.

Others have touched on this, but I'll add my two cents: Rafael asked her to help Petra. Jane put aside all of Petra's scheming, the fact that her mother tried to kill Jane's grandmother, and tons of other shit and agreed to be as of assistance. She may have not liked it, but she put her feelings aside as a favor to Rafael and to make things easier for Petra. She had several justifiable reasons to say no, but didn't. Then only asked for Rafael to play nice and he refused to, which is when she then played the Petra card and she had every right to. Because his concerns were not about Mateo's safety, but rather him not being in the picture anymore so they could start a family.

Rafael broke my heart. Of course he was going to revert to being a playboy. He's lonely, no family, feels rejected, feels like he's not even part of Mateo's life... 

I have difficulty feeling sorry for him.

 

He's basically centering his life around two people and wanting them to perform in these roles that were forced upon them. And he's basically lonely by choice as well. Like, I know Luisa is a fuck up, but he could try to make an effort with her instead of this hot/cold routine he has going on. He could try to be work on his co-parenting relationship with Petra, but is a flake. He feels like he's not apart of Mateo's life because they don't live together and he and Jane aren't in a relationship--he seriously needs to speak with someone to sort out his issues.

 

I don't find or categorize Michael as "boring, safe or the dreaded dull" that continues to be the main label used as a negative trait towards that character.

Rafael is complex, troubled, needy, lonely and desperately searching to establish a family that he can claim as his own.

I find that extremely troubling, because nobody, especially Jane and Mateo should be put in that role to try and make ALL of Rafael's hurt from his upbringing go away.

I don't get that either because Michael is complex IMO. He just doesn't have the extra baggage as the other two.

 

I even think safe is being misused here. Jane doesn't love Michael OR want to be with him because he's safe, they are extremely compatible and, in the glimpses we've seen of their relationship, worked out their differences and accept each other as is. Jane is in love with Michael and she kept stuff that reminded her of him and smiles at his silly jokes and they learned each others mannerisms--they took time and invested in that relationship to a point where it looked safe and easy.

 

And, this is not to shit on Rafael, but as mentioned, he is: lonely, needy, and troubled. Because of this, he projects all of his wants/desires of a family unto a situation and people in order to compensate for what he is lacking. For some, there is no issue with trying to compensate in such a way, but as another poster mentioned, they both use Mateo as a bargaining chip, but Rafael is more likely to use Mateo as a bargaining chip to gain control and/or influence of Jane's decisions pertaining her dating life.  

[natyxg]

I even think safe is being misused here. Jane doesn't love Michael OR want to be with him because he's safe, they are extremely compatible and, in the glimpses we've seen of their relationship, worked out their differences and accept each other as is. Jane is in love with Michael and she kept stuff that reminded her of him and smiles at his silly jokes and they learned each others mannerisms--they took time and invested in that relationship to a point where it looked safe and easy.

 

Jane and Michael were together for like four years, IIRC. That's a long time. And Michael made mistakes, yes, specially when he first found out about Jane's pregnancy, but IMO overall they have shown him as the one who gets Jane the most, the one who has been waiting patiently for a long time even when it hurt, the one who threw himself into the Sin Rostro case for months and months and put himself into harms way all for Jane, now the one who would even give up his job in a heartbeat if she asked him to...

 

They've just now caught up Jane with him and made her realize she loved him still, but I think for a long time the show has been pushing forth the idea that Jane and Michael were great together when they were together and Michael loves her pretty selflessly overall, in spite of his faults and mistakes.

 

Now, I could be wrong because I watch this show casually and probably have forgotten half of the stuff that has happened. But that's the impression I've had for a while.

 

Which is more reason to fear they will kill him off, lol.

[galax-arena]

And he's basically lonely by choice as well. Like, I know Luisa is a fuck up, but he could try to make an effort with her instead of this hot/cold routine he has going on. 

Yeah, if he can make nice with Petra, who was a lot more deliberate/malicious when she messed with him than Luisa's ever been, he can make more of an effort with the latter. 

[Irlandesa]

Rafael tends to turn the situation into him not being unable to have kids and his mess up family without understanding that Jane was illegally inseminated and he's lick she didn't get and abortion and continued her lawsuit of Luisa.

Oh I think he understands this.  It wasn't just Jane's life that was upended when she got inseminated.  His was as well.  When she got pregnant, he was planning to leave Petra and move forward with his life which involved finding someone and starting a family.  He was robbed of the opportunity to choose a partner with whom he could envision building that life when Jane got pregnant. 

 

Jane not having an abortion or stopping the lawsuits aren't things Rafael owes her for.  He was happy she was going to have the baby because he knew she could make another choice but she made that choice.  The same thing with the lawsuit.  He stood to lose if she won the lawsuit but he kept the risk to himself. It was one of the most unselfish things he has ever done and yet he should be grateful Jane had an illegal alien in the family?  She didn't stop it for him.  She stopped it because of abuela.

 

And now we go to this year where he has been robbed of the opportunity, once again, to build a family in a more traditional way once Petra, once again, decided to take away that choice from him.  This is why I can't subscribe to the "poor poor Petra" meme or that Petra deserves better.

 

Others have touched on this, but I'll add my two cents: Rafael asked her to help Petra. Jane put aside all of Petra's scheming, the fact that her mother tried to kill Jane's grandmother, and tons of other shit and agreed to be as of assistance. She may have not liked it, but she put her feelings aside as a favor to Rafael and to make things easier for Petra. She had several justifiable reasons to say no, but didn't.

I'd find this more persuasive if Jane and Petra hadn't been floating towards a friendship earlier this season before Magda put a stop to it.  Jane was already prepared to put their pasts behind them and not because Rafael asked.

 

But I think what irritated me the most was that, after Jane got them to have lunch, Rafael's "okay" wasn't enough for her.  She wanted more and her pushing is what set him off at the lunch. I think it's fair to ask them to stop going after one another (although it has been months since either has done anything to the other) but I think civility should be the only thing she should ask of them at this time.  And believe it or not, they have managed to be civil when not pushed to be more.

 

 

I even think safe is being misused here. Jane doesn't love Michael OR want to be with him because he's safe, they are extremely compatible and, in the glimpses we've seen of their relationship, worked out their differences and accept each other as is. Jane is in love with Michael and she kept stuff that reminded her of him and smiles at his silly jokes and they learned each others mannerisms--they took time and invested in that relationship to a point where it looked safe and easy.

I think safe is appropriate.  That doesn't mean it's bad (even though I have no use for them) but at the same time, it doesn't mean familiarity isn't playing a huge role in what is drawing Jane back to Michael.  I find it interesting that as she's going back to Michael, she's also working again at the hotel.  Maybe it means nothing but it's interesting that Jane is putting herself back in pre-Mateo scenarios after expressing how confused she felt after becoming a mother.  The job at the hotel has me scratching my head the most.  Maybe it's as simple as presented but it's not like they needed to have her work there to have her be there. 

 

he claims Michael's job is a danger? All the danger was from Rafael's psycho family members.

Michael's job is a danger.  Didn't Michael just spend months lying and pushing Jane away because he wanted to "protect" her and now that Rose is dead, he felt he could be with her?  So clearly he sees it as a danger.  Plus, Rose didn't kidnap Mateo because he was Rafael's son.  She kidnapped him because he was Jane's son and she needed something from the police station.  She knew she could get Michael to get it because of how he felt about Jane. 

[Kummerspeck]

Rafael is generally my third favorite character, and I'm so disappointed that they've decided to make him a huge asshole this season.

I totally agree with the PP who says he needs therapy. In S1 he was loving and sweet and endlessly supportive. In this season he's a needy, obsessive, and gross.

Basically harassing your baby mama isn't going to make her love you! Harassing baby mama #2 is awful, too. He needs a serious come to Jesus.

I'm glad Petra and Jane are done with his shit. I'm #TeamJetra with Gina and Yael!

Edited March 2, 2016 by Kummerspeck

[Irlandesa]

Isn't that upside down? Michael is a cop. Sin Rostro is /was Lisa's girlfriend, Rafael's step mom, his mom's Step daughter. Rafael's mom is another crime Lord called Mutter. People are making Internet memes about Murder at the Marabella.  

And it's Michael that is the risk here?

I simply pointed out that Michael's job is a risk.  And was a risk.  Mateo wasn't kidnapped because of his relationship to Rafael.  It was because of his relationship to the woman Michael loved.  That's all I was pointing out.  

 

Of course it wasn't enough for Rafael. I never said it was.  He was grasping. 

Jane made the decision to date, marry a cop and have a family with him knowing the risk. Why this is suddenly a Big Problem With Michael is ridiculous. How did his being considerate and protective about her and Mateo in this situation, being more worried about a recurrence of Mateo's kidnapping than Jane become a strike against him?

As you said, Jane made a choice which she's entitled to make.  She's also into truth.  Michael's decision didn't even give her the opportunity to make that choice for herself again. 

 

As for therapy, Rafael hasn't had decent luck with therapists.  The one he and Jane went to recently was pretty decent at facilitating a conversation between them.  But the one he saw last season?  Not so great. 

Edited March 2, 2016 by Irlandesa

[vixenbynight]

Yeah, if he can make nice with Petra, who was a lot more deliberate/malicious when she messed with him than Luisa's ever been, he can make more of an effort with the latter.

I hope that Rafael and Luisa will eventually reconcile because those two do need to support one another. They are family and they are each grasping for outside things and people to make each other whole.

[Irlandesa]

I hope that Rafael and Luisa will eventually reconcile because those two do need to support one another. They are family and they are each grasping for outside things and people to make each other whole.

And last season, when she was sober and at peace, she gave him the best advice he got. That's why the show's decision to keep her falling off the wagon or running away or obsessed with Rose had been so frustrating to me. Jane has a lot of supportive sane people to talk with. Rafael does not. He just has Jane and given the discrepancy in their feelings, that's not ideal.

Edited March 2, 2016 by Irlandesa

[Bouffe]

Jane really hasn't used all of the stuff that Petra and her mother Magda has done towards her and her family to get Rafael.

 

Besides, let's not forget that Jane got accidentally artificially inseminated because Petra decided to get inseminated without telling Rafael... But I guess Jane doesn't hold that against Petra anymore because she has Mr SweetFace now. :)

[Bouffe]

Irlandesa, I say a big huge yes to your long previous post about Rafael and how his life was also turned upside down because of Jane's pregnancy. 

 

I get that we all have our favourites, and we want to see Jane with Rafael, or Michael, or someone entirely different. However I feel like we are all forgetting a key point - both Michael and Rafael love Jane. They both want her in their life. And they are both ready to do anything to have her. Rafael has been more pushy about it, and a few episodes back, lied to Jane about not being in love with her anymore, then decided to tell her he still loves her because he doesn't want to lie to her anymore. He went for honesty. That is still what he's doing when he's telling her how he feels about Michael (although I'll admit he's too pushy about it all but...). On the other hand, Michael lied for months to Jane about his feelings for her. Yes, sure, he had a good reason (his job). But now? Doesn't have that reason anymore. Will he be as "not pushy" as he was before? Will he scheme more to make sure he gets her in the end? Maybe yes, maybe no, who knows. We actually saw him fight back a bit at that lunch that Jane insisted on for Michael to apologize to Rafael.

 

I'm very interested in seeing how the whole thing will unfold. Of couse I want my end game to the THE end game. But if I don't get it? It's cool, it's just a TV show. And it's highly entertaining regardless!

Oh another thing. I find it interesting that some viewers can forgive Petra for all the bad stuff she's done because her mom was emotionally abusive and a criminal who manipulated her, but cannot forgive Rafael for what he's done (despite the fact that his actions can also be attributed to the fact that he has one really fucked up family).

[Katsullivan]

@doram: Michael and Jane weren't even really dating when he was lying about having a girlfriend and moving on, because Jane had already ended things with him. He didn't even know if she still had feelings for him because they hadn't seen each other in many months. But if you count Jane's first kiss, then that makes it two times that Rafael broke her heart.

[Irlandesa]

Actually, the show doesn't support this. At all. When Jane dated Rafael, Michael practically dropped off the edge of this show. Towards the end of the season when he comes back, he tells Jane point-blank that: a, She shouldn't choose him because he's her "Safe" choice.

Yes, towards the end of the season Michael dropped off and then said he didn't want to be her 'safe' choice which was certainly easier to say when Rafael appeared to be out of the picture.

 

However, that's just part of last season.  A large part of the season, Michael was doing anything but backing off.  He investigated Rafael looking for anything he could arrest him on. Jane had to tell him multiple times that she was with Rafael and was not going to come back to him. He didn't respect it.  He didn't listen. The only person who made any progress with him whatsoever was Rogelio who advised him to back off.

 

But this season, when Jane was still torn and had feelings for both, Michael told her that she didn't love Rafael so that guy was back.

 

Rafael may be self-centered from Rafael and concerned about what he wants above all right now.  But entitled?  I don't think anyone fit that ticket better than Michael.

 

 

It's interesting actually, comparing the two relationships, because Jane/Michael needed an artificial insemination from another man and all the baggage that came with that to end their relationship... But Rafael literally self-sabotaged his chance with Jane.

Michael self-sabotaged as well.  And if we're going to give his self-sabotage context, we should give it to Rafael's self-sabotaging which involved having his father murdered by his step-mother who was his sister's lover and then finding out his bio mother sold/abandoned him to his domineering father for ten million dollars.

.

Michael has more reason to dislike/resent Rafael than the other way around - which is also something that Rafael doesn't get because of his over-large sense of entitlement. He seems to think that Michael in an interloper in his "perfect little fantasy" of him, Jane and Mateo when the truth is closer to the other way around. Rafael is the one whose sperm and presence screwed up Michael's plans with the woman he was going to marry. We see Michael work through that and move on last season

Your whole argument as to why Michael has more reason to "resent" Rafael and not the other way around is 100% based on pure entitlement.  Entitlement that Jane's uterus belonged to him and how dare anyone else's sperm get there before his.  Rafael had nothing, zilch, zero, nada to do with Jane getting inseminated.  He didn't rape her.  He didn't inseminate her.  He didn't plan for her to get pregnant.  He also didn't break up her relationship with Michael.  That was on Jane and Michael.

 

Yet Michael then targeted him. He snuck around the Marbella, broke into offices, sent his criminal brother in as a spy all because Jane chose to move on with Rafael. If it were truly about the injustice that had been done to Jane, Rafael would not have been the target.  It would have been Petra for starting this mess in the first place or it would have been Luisa for messing up.  But Rafael?  He was as much on the sidelines as Jane. I think that, along with finding out he let Nadine go gives him a very legitimate reason to not like Michael.  Did finding out Jane loved Michael motivate him to turn Michael in?  Yep.  That's the thing, both boys place nicer when they're with Jane because they know Jane wants all happiness and love.  That's why Michael got away with playing it fast and loose with the 4th amendment violations.

 

 

Which is all kinds of screwed up. Like Jane said, he's the one who's creating an antagonistic atmosphere for Mateo, not any other person in this equation.

No.  I'd argue that she's the one creating it by forcing a relationship.  Michael and Rafael have zero reason to be in the same room.  They don't co-parent.  They don't have to get along.  Rafael prioritizes Mateo.  He's there for him.  He's often the only father we see at these "mommy and me type" group things. He's not the one who lost his temper and hurt his child.

Edited March 3, 2016 by Irlandesa

[North]

I find it interesting that lots of people have loads of sympathy for Jane and Raphael with regards to the insemination, but not for Michael.

 

Did he behave poorly when he found out?  Yes, but this situation was hard for him too.

 

It's not about entitlement, it's about the same thing as Jane and Raphael.  He was making plans for the future with Jane and he also got thrust into this situation without a safety net.

 

Is Michael perfect?  No and he doesn't pretend to be.

[Irlandesa]

Was it really so unexpected that Michael would be freaked out that his girlfriend was impregnated against her will? Jane herself said that she'd be just as upset if Michael was accidentally having a baby with another woman.

Michael did more than freak out.  But I didn't even address his behavior surrounding his initial lies to Jane about Petra so I'm not sure why you're arguing that I discounted his apology. 

 

Michael will be co-parenting Mateo officially when he and Jane get married. Jane and Michael are being pragmatic about it.

He would be Mateo's stepfather if he and Jane got married but co-parenting implies a say in the decisions regarding the child.  Those decisions are for Jane and Rafael and Michael will have to accept them.  And for Michael to do that, he and Rafael do not have to like one another.  They just have to not punch one another. But you know what?  Jane and Michael aren't even engaged so all of this is precipitous of Jane. Ironically, they get along better when she's not forcing them to get along. 

 

Actually, Michael said that when Rafael had returned to the picture. Your context is wrong - as is the context of Michael investigating the Marabella to "punish" Rafael. He genuinely suspected that Sin Rostro was tied up with the Solano family - and he was 100% right about that.

He did not approach the case with open mind.  He targeted Rafael.  I believe he believed he was just doing his job but it was pretty clearly driven by how he felt about Rafael.  He didn't have enough for a warrant so he had to resort to breaking and entering and when he did that, he targeted Rafael's office.   Of course when he got proof on Petra he didn't dig his heels in.  I'm not accusing him being of an evil psycho villain, just a guy who lies to himself.

Michael understanding Jane perfectly is something that has been established almost ad nauseum in the series; to argue about it is like arguing about whether Jane is a virgin. You may not like it but, as they say, dem's the breaks.

Better than she knows herself?  Yeah, I missed that episode.

[Nanrad]

Oh I think he understands this.  It wasn't just Jane's life that was upended when she got inseminated.  His was as well.  When she got pregnant, he was planning to leave Petra and move forward with his life which involved finding someone and starting a family.  He was robbed of the opportunity to choose a partner with whom he could envision building that life when Jane got pregnant. 

 

Jane not having an abortion or stopping the lawsuits aren't things Rafael owes her for.  He was happy she was going to have the baby because he knew she could make another choice but she made that choice.  The same thing with the lawsuit.  He stood to lose if she won the lawsuit but he kept the risk to himself  She didn't stop it for him.  She stopped it because of abuela.

 

And now we go to this year where he has been robbed of the opportunity, once again, to build a family in a more traditional way once Petra, once again, decided to take away that choice from him.  This is why I can't subscribe to the "poor poor Petra" meme or that Petra deserves better.

 

I'd find this more persuasive if Jane and Petra hadn't been floating towards a friendship earlier this season before Magda put a stop to it.  Jane was already prepared to put their pasts behind them and not because Rafael asked.

 

But I think what irritated me the most was that, after Jane got them to have lunch, Rafael's "okay" wasn't enough for her.  

 

I think safe is appropriate.  

 

Michael's job is a danger. 

Initially, he understood this, now he is far too obsessed with having a nuclear family that he refuses to understand how much harder it is for Jane than for him. HE was planning to leave a marriage, she was planning to enter one. Rafael got to leave his eventually and got a child at the same time (which he was unable to do due to being sterile), despite the unfortunate circumstances; Jane never married because of the consequences resulting from her illegal insemination--either way, she could've had children. Rafael gets so caught up his feelings and his desires that he fails to realize that Jane STILL didn't choose this life with him and feels entitled to her solely because she had his child.

 

I'm not saying he owes her, I'm saying he should be grateful that Jane had Mateo at all. No, she didn't stop it for him, BUT the result is still the same. Rather than being happy that he has a child at all because he cannot naturally conceive on his own, he's being fucking petulant about her dating life because it doesn't include him. He had his unselfish moments, yes, but it doesn't negate his entitlement NOW. Rafael loves Mateo, but cannot seem to separate being a dad and being with Jane--those two are a packaged deal in his mind.

 

How can Rafael build a family in a traditional way if he's not trying??? He's not trying to move on from Jane at all--he gave a half assed attempt ONCE. His traditional family is already ruined if he and Jane aren't endgame. Although Petra makes fucked up decisions, it doesn't excuse Rafael's mistreatment of her, which is apart of "poor petra." 

 

Regardless, at that moment, Jane's friendship with Petra was over and Jane made an effort because Rafael asked. Is Rafael's hatred of Michael void because he asked for advice once???

 

His okay was half assed, which is why she flipped. It wasn't sincere and she is trying to make an effort to get them to all co-exist and not just be "civil." They were civil before the blow up that resulted in Mateo being hurt. And, it's not like Rafael as a true issue with Michael--all of his reasons have been picked apart and debunked, so the only thing stopping him from trying to make nice with Michael is his hurt feelings that Jane chose Michael. And he refused to apologized for turning Michael in.

 

Michael and Jane's relationship is constantly criticized with her going back because it's "safe." I understand the implication of how it's being used as do many others. 

 

Yes, but it's primarily a danger to him. But, ultimately, it had everything to do with Sin Rostra and Mutter targeting cops families to manipulate them. But, TBT, Rafael has more of the dangerous life since both women were apart of his family and would've found a different way to get what they wanted. Michael believed it because it's Jane and it's already a complicated situation as it is for him to step back and look at the situation for what it is. Like, if Michael wasn't involved with Jane, they would've went after whatever woman he was with, parents, siblings, etc. That doesn't prove Rafael's point.

As you said, Jane made a choice which she's entitled to make.  She's also into truth.  Michael's decision didn't even give her the opportunity to make that choice for herself again. 

 

As for therapy, Rafael hasn't had decent luck with therapists.  The one he and Jane went to recently was pretty decent at facilitating a conversation between them.  But the one he saw last season?  Not so great. 

I'm not understanding the issue. Because the choice that he made wasn't simply Jane's decision to make, it was his as well. They can agree to stay together or he may be against while he's for it or vice versa, but if one person doesn't want to be in it, that's that. Should Michael had filled her in, yes. But, wasn't Rafael already telling him that he put Mateo's life in danger, which put him on a guilt trip in addition to Nadine being killed. He's criticized for being perfect; he's criticized for making mistakes. lol

 

As I told my sister, you search for the therapist that is right for you.

 

Yes, towards the end of the season Michael dropped off and then said he didn't want to be her 'safe' choice which was certainly easier to say when Rafael appeared to be out of the picture.

[...]

Rafael may be self-centered from Rafael and concerned about what he wants above all right now.  But entitled?  I don't think anyone fit that ticket better than Michael.

 

Michael self-sabotaged as well.  And if we're going to give his self-sabotage context, we should give it to Rafael's self-sabotaging which involved having his father murdered by his step-mother who was his sister's lover and then finding out his bio mother sold/abandoned him to his domineering father for ten million dollars.

.

Your whole argument as to why Michael has more reason to "resent" Rafael and not the other way around is 100% based on pure entitlement.  Entitlement that Jane's uterus belonged to him and how dare anyone else's sperm get there before his.  Rafael had nothing, zilch, zero, nada to do with Jane getting inseminated.  He didn't rape her.  He didn't inseminate her.  He didn't plan for her to get pregnant.  He also didn't break up her relationship with Michael.  That was on Jane and Michael.

 

Yet Michael then targeted him. He snuck around the Marbella, broke into offices, sent his criminal brother in as a spy all because Jane chose to move on with Rafael.  I think that, along with finding out he let Nadine go gives him a very legitimate reason to not like Michael.  Did finding out Jane loved Michael motivate him to turn Michael in?  Yep.  That's the thing, both boys place nicer when they're with Jane because they know Jane wants all happiness and love.  

 

No.  I'd argue that she's the one creating it by forcing a relationship. He's not the one who lost his temper and hurt his child.

Huh? Telling someone you're madly in love with that you don't want to be a safe choice regardless if someone else is in the picture is NOT an easy choice. It's easier to settle and be happy that you were chosen than demand authenticity regarding one's feelings.

 

Despite, Rafael not being involved in the insemination fiasco, he EXUDED entitlement after he and Jane became involved romantically. Like, I've complained about this in other threads--he keeps trying to force a nuclear family on Jane and doesn't want her to date because it interferes with his fantasies of being one, big happy family. He constantly holds Mateo over her head to have her question her dating decisions OR to convince her to be with him, and then becomes petulant, angry, and obsessive when she denies him. He's basically being called out on this in this episode. And your reasons why Michael's more "entitled" is actually anyone in a relationship with a person who is accidentally inseminated or the sperm accidentally inseminates another person should or even may feel. That is a entitlement they deserve. No, Michael should not be angry with Rafael, but he has every reason to be upset by this. Because it wasn't just about the pregnancy, it was about a pregnancy by a guy Jane used to have a thing for and who is super rich an attractive. Many men would feel threatened by that and they are entitled to feel anger. 

 

Jane also wants honesty. Rafael was not only dishonest, he manipulated that entire situation and paid people off before getting caught. If Rafael had been honest with her, I'd be on his side, but he wasn't. If he was really anger about the situation, he'd give two shits about being with Jane because his fucking father was murdered and a person involved was allowed to get away with it. But, he stayed quiet and collected dirt and then schemed. Rafael is fine with Michael until Michael poses an actual threat to his relationship with Jane.

 

Rafael prioritizes Mateo, yes, but he also facilitated the situation for another to lose their temper as well. Co parenting should be enough, but not with passive aggressive and criticizing the other parent's choice of partner because you want to be with them.

 

Michael self sabotages as well, yeah, but breaking Jane's heart at 8 mos pregnant and then that shit he pulled with Michael--the scheming. Michael was in a fucked up situation due to the pregnancy; Rafael had just about everything he wanted and intentionally severed the relationship. His reasons for not being with Jane were far more preventable than Michael's. 

Edited March 3, 2016 by Nanrad

[Bouffe]

Michael is not a schemer and his attitude after Jane told him about insemination was an anomaly. The show tells us this consistently even in comedic moments like Rafael asking for advice on how to charm the Villanueva and Michael giving it. Michael has more reason to dislike/resent Rafael than the other way around - which is also something that Rafael doesn't get because of his over-large sense of entitlement. He seems to think that Michael in an interloper in his "perfect little fantasy" of him, Jane and Mateo when the truth is closer to the other way around. Rafael is the one whose sperm and presence screwed up Michael's plans with the woman he was going to marry. We see Michael work through that and move on last season. I hope we see Rafael do the same thing because right now, he's really not winning any points for himself.

 

Michael, not a schemer? Maybe I am not using the right term (possible, english is not my first language), but I clearly remember Michael tampering with the scene of the crime when he was investigating Zazzo's murder (retrieving Petra's necklace in the couch). That was not because he was genuinely interested in his job. He did that because he wanted Jane to give the baby to Petra and Rafael, the "happy" and "stable" couple he tried to make them out to be to Jane. That's scheming, in my mind.

 

Michael never moved on from Jane. He distanced himself from her because of his job (as he explained to Jane in this week's episode). Rose's body was not even cold before he came running back to Jane. Moved on from Jane? Not a fat chance.

 

Do I hold it against Michael that he still loves Jane and wants to be with her and yes, I'll say it again, do anything to be with her? Absolutely not. Just like I am not holding Rafael still being in love with Jane against him. Rafael told Jane he loves her and will do anything to have her in his life. Michael may not have expressed himself in those terms, but that is exactly what he is doing, too, to keep Jane in his life.

[Bouffe]

Jane also wants honesty. Rafael was not only dishonest, he manipulated that entire situation and paid people off before getting caught. If Rafael had been honest with her, I'd be on his side, but he wasn't. If he was really anger about the situation, he'd give two shits about being with Jane because his fucking father was murdered and a person involved was allowed to get away with it. But, he stayed quiet and collected dirt and then schemed. Rafael is fine with Michael until Michael poses an actual threat to his relationship with Jane.

 

Both men have not been honest with Jane at one time or another. Michael lied to Jane and made her believe Petra and Rafael were a happy, stable couple so that she would give them the baby (first season). Jane had feelings for Rafael and wanted to break up with Michael, but wasn't Michael's lying the straw that broke the camel's back for Jane? 

 

You are right that Jane is into truth. She wants honesty, even when it may hurt. I will be interested in seeing how the show reconcile this fundamental trait Jane has with the fact that she is now dating Michael (and perhaps once she gets back with Rafael in the future, if it happens at all).

[Bouffe]

It's going to be very difficult to keep up at this if I need to explain everything I type but here goes:

 

You seem to confuse Michael having feelings for Jane - feelings which most people generally have no control over - with Michael claiming her, pestering her and/or browbeating her with them -  which is something that he has chosen not to do. This is the same guy who had a golden opportunity to play Knight in Shining Armour when Abuela was being threatened with deportation, and he asked Xo to keep that a secret from Jane. Which is almost a mirror image of what happened with Rafael and the informant. The show has consistently shown Michael passing every exam that Rafael and even her temporary Professor crush failed. 

 

You do not need to explain your points over and over again. It's pretty clear you and I do not see the two men in love with Jane the same way. We disagree, and that's more than fine. However, my opinions are just as valid as yours, so please be respectful, just as I am trying to be.

 

And with that, time for some Rogelio. I was looking for his happy dance he did this week, but I couldn't find it. So, settling for green spandex dancing Rogelio instead:

 

[Nanrad]

Both men have not been honest with Jane at one time or another. Michael lied to Jane and made her believe Petra and Rafael were a happy, stable couple so that she would give them the baby (first season). Jane had feelings for Rafael and wanted to break up with Michael, but wasn't Michael's lying the straw that broke the camel's back for Jane? 

 

You are right that Jane is into truth. She wants honesty, even when it may hurt. I will be interested in seeing how the show reconcile this fundamental trait Jane has with the fact that she is now dating Michael (and perhaps once she gets back with Rafael in the future, if it happens at all).

Jane is shown as being capable of forgiveness, I don't think there will be any difficulty of her moving on from the situation. Lies commanded with deceit is why Jane broke up with both men, but she is able to forgive if they are able to admit their folly and learn from it.

[Lady Calypso]

I think that Jane has two entirely different relationships with Michael and Rafael, and to compare them side by side doesn't work with either. With Jane, she has a more loving and a more comfortable relationship with Michael. They have full trust in each other, they spend nights talking and texting each other, and he is close with her family. They just have a different chemistry, one that has worked for both of them really well. The fact that Jane has forgiven Michael for the lying and for punching Rafael speaks volumes. She can't stay mad at him forever for these things.

 

With Jane and Rafael, their relationship was initially built on a one-chance meeting years ago, but it was mostly built around Mateo. I think that they will need to find another reason to be together, other than Mateo, because it LOOKS like since Mateo was born, that connection with them was broken somewhat. But their relationship was built on risk, on passion, and yes, it is built around them having a son together. She loved Rafael in a different way than Michael, but I do think she might have actually loved him. They had their own different type of chemistry. It's what made them work for me. Rafael cared about Jane, just like she cared about him. They created their own values, their own traditions with each other, and they worked at the time that they were dating.

 

Both men have made mistakes. Both have schemed and done terrible things to each other. Michael has done his own share of terrible things, like lying and manipulating and yes, he gets angry. Just like Rafael has also lied and manipulated (I still think that him lying about not loving Jane back in season 1 is on par with Michael lying at the beginning of season 1, because you don't just break someone's heart like that when you know it's not the truth, and not when you think that it's the best decision; you don't make major choices like that on your own, no matter if it's in their best interests). Jane's certainly no saint, either. She makes her own mistakes. But Rafael and Michael have both done things to try to convince Jane not that they're the better choice, but the other man is a worse choice. Rafael says that Michael's job is dangerous and he doesn't want that for his son (AKA, he doesn't want Jane with Michael so using Mateo as a safegate works). Michael has claimed also uncertainty and danger in Rafael's life, like his family. It's not Rafael's fault that his family sucks. So yes, both men use these reasons and go to great lengths to try to get Jane to choose them, but it makes BOTH of them look worse. Both of them.

 

Both Rafael and Michael love Jane. Neither of them deny it and both have done their fair share of very crappy things to the other in order to 'win' Jane's heart. Also, if Jane actually sticks with Michael and marries him, I do think he is allowed some say in Mateo's bringing up. Yes, Jane and Rafael are the parents, but Michael would be a stepfather. And yes, I do think Michael and Rafael will have to learn to get along for Mateo's sake if Michael is in Jane's life, and if Rafael is in Mateo's. I'm not saying they need to be best friends, but they need to get past their immature insecurities and jealousies of one another and move the hell on. 

 

Regarding this episode, I think if you read into Rafael/Petra, he basically chose to go all in with Petra because Jane chose Michael. We have seen Rafael do very little with Petra and their babies compared to all that he did with Jane. His speech to Petra about wanting to be all in with her was absolutely in response to what Jane talked to him about the scene before. Now, I do agree that he never got the chance to be a real dad to Mateo, because Jane always has him. He doesn't get that chance to be the active father that he wants to be, so him wanting to do that with the twins is nice. I actually support him on that. It's more the fact that it's a clear emotional response to Jane choosing Michael over him that puts a damper on that. What happens if Jane chooses Rafael again? I would support him for giving her the finger and rejecting her for jumping back and forth, but I also fear that he'll start distancing himself from Petra and the twins, after promising to be there for them always. 

 

All I want is for there to be an acceptance that both men do similar things to convince Jane to choose them. They both lie, manipulate and scheme. They both are incredibly flawed, but they both also love Jane and have different relationships with her that work. And Jane makes the decision to forgive them, because she knows both of them are not bad guys. They may seem like bad guys, but I do think they mean well. I just prefer Jane/Michael more, personally. I think that Rafael was quite harsh toward Michael. It was fine to say that he doesn't like Michael after he apologized. It was all the other stuff afterward that just sparked that flame once more and got things to go incredibly wrong. And yes, I know it was all because of jealousy and denial that Jane would choose Michael, but I still think Rafael should have apologized to Jane for not at least trying a little harder. 

 

As for the rest, I felt bad for Rogelio. Of course he's upset over the break up, and I can see why he would be upset over Jane choosing Xo over him. I understand that Jane has known Xo her whole life, so when her mother gets upset, she's naturally going to be there for her. Plus, she had been right there; it's not like she could just leave her mother alone to be upset. It's a hard choice. But I also understand Rogelio being disappointed and upset. I do think that he feels like an outsider because he just came into Jane's life less than two years ago. He doesn't have that typical relationship, so he's always going to be playing second fiddle to the women. And now he's trapped in his home by crazy Lola, so he's not going through a good time.

 

I also feel bad for Luisa. We don't see much of her, but I'm glad she got a subplot this episode. It was actually nice to see her and Jane talking. Luisa is so underused and when she doesn't play the comedy side, she's actually really good. Plus, her relationship with Susanna works really, really well. 

[possibilities]

I think Rafael has Mateo half the time, we just don't see it because the show is focused on Jane. I don't really get Rafael's complaint that he doesn't get to be a father to Mateo. He has joint custody. He's just too busy to pay attention, just like when Jane was pregnant and he missed the birthing classes and generally was distracted by other drama. But that's not Jane's fault. The guy is a drama magnet. He doesn't even take his rejection by Jane as an opportunity to focus on fatherhood instead of drama; he goes out and creates more drama. I understand he has a shitty family and comes by his drama-addiction naturally, but blaming it on Jane or Michael is just more self-pitying drama. He's not a BAD person, but I find him tiresome and would never want to be his partner in business or in life. Even Petra is tired of his drama, and she's not exactly lacking the drama gene herself.... What makes Rafael and Petra a plausible match is that they're both drama freaks who are bored with every mundane thing about both parenthood and the rest of life, and are just in it for the excitement and looking for glory. Petra wanted kids (both times) to keep Rafael. Rafael wants kids because he wants to be loved. Neither of them want to actually do the everyday parts of being parents. It's exhausting. They both thrive in a crisis, where they get to take big risks and get high off the adrenaline. It's why they keep bonding over the Marbella, too.

 

Michael's job is dangerous, but he's also used it to help Jane's family, like when he protected Abuela from immigration. I think Rafael's family is where the danger to Mateo comes in. No one would have targeted Jane or Mateo or Abuela if there had been no connection to Rafael. Petra's mother, Sin Rostro, all the kidnapping and attempted murder and other drama has originated from Rafael's side of the equation. Michael has been caught in it because he's a cop, but it all comes from Rafael. Michael is happy to hang out with Rogelio or Jane's family, and doesn't seem to mind when things get routine. He's patient and dated Jane for 2 years in a stable way, whereas Rafael and Jane were constantly on a roller coaster from their very first meeting and he had real problems coping with her being a virgin, as well as with how she wants to raise Mateo.

 

I think from the show's point of view, Rafael will always have a story because he's Mateo's father. If they want to keep Michael's character, pairing him with Jane is the way to do it; otherwise, he kind of loses relevance.

Edited March 6, 2016 by possibilities

[Irlandesa]

Also, if Jane actually sticks with Michael and marries him, I do think he is allowed some say in Mateo's bringing up. Yes, Jane and Rafael are the parents, but Michael would be a stepfather.

When I say Michael doesn't get a say, I mean in the sense of a vote.  Ultimately, it is up to Jane and Rafael to decide how Mateo is raised.  Michael's say/influence should come through Jane. 

I think Rafael has Mateo half the time, we just don't see it because the show is focused on Jane. I don't really get Rafael's complaint that he doesn't get to be a father to Mateo. He has joint custody. He's just too busy to pay attention, just like when Jane was pregnant and he missed the birthing classes and generally was distracted by other drama.

When did he say this? I remember his fear of being replaced but if he's parenting half the time, and missing meetings to go to swimming lessons, and going to the mommy and me classes so he knew that silly routine better than Jane, then I don't think he's too busy.  Given the fact that Rogelio has had to assert on Rafael's behalf, I don't think it's that wild for him to be antsy about an attempt to be replaced or get the feeling of being squeezed out. He has nothing concrete that she'd do it but he's considered an outsider in that family.  From early in their relationship, Jane asserts their differences.  Xio has made it clear what she thought of him. And Rogelio was happy to tell him how he was proposing wrong. 

 

Now, I would love nothing more than for Rafael to take a step back from the hotel.  I think he's hanging onto it for all the wrong reasons--attempting to prove something to his late father.  But I haven't gotten the sense that it's taking him away from Mateo.  Just the opposite in fact.

[Lady Calypso]

When did he say this? I remember his fear of being replaced but if he's parenting half the time, and missing meetings to go to swimming lessons, and going to the mommy and me classes so he knew that silly routine better than Jane, then I don't think he's too busy.  Given the fact that Rogelio has had to assert on Rafael's behalf, I don't think it's that wild for him to be antsy about an attempt to be replaced or get the feeling of being squeezed out. He has nothing concrete that she'd do it but he's considered an outsider in that family.  From early in their relationship, Jane asserts their differences.  Xio has made it clear what she thought of him. And Rogelio was happy to tell him how he was proposing wrong. 

 

Now, I would love nothing more than for Rafael to take a step back from the hotel.  I think he's hanging onto it for all the wrong reasons--attempting to prove something to his late father.  But I haven't gotten the sense that it's taking him away from Mateo.  Just the opposite in fact.

 

I'm pretty sure it was at the end of this episode, when Rafael goes to Petra and says he's all in because he doesn't get to be the father that he wants to be with Mateo because of Jane. I may be misinterpreting his words, but it seems like he feels that he can't be there for Mateo in the middle of the night every night, and because of this joint custody, he feels like he's missing out on half of Mateo's life, so he wants to do it with Petra and the twins. Which is true, because he doesn't have Mateo a lot so him and Jane both miss out on certain moments.

 

It's the fact that this show doesn't show Rafael bond with Mateo at all that becomes the problem, so it feels like Rafael only gets Mateo once in a while. I mean, we see Jane dropping Mateo off with Rafael sometimes, but then there are other times where Jane is looking for someone to watch Mateo, like her family or a nanny. So that makes it seem like Rafael is either too busy a lot of the time to take care of Mateo, or Jane doesn't want to rely on him all the time, which is ridiculous because that's what she should be doing. Busy or not, Rafael should be making the time to take care of his son, but I do think it's more the show wanting antics and less about seeing Jane and Rafael actually coparent. When they do have scenes of them coparenting, it's not because they are coparenting, but it's to move something in the plot along (such as the swimming scene this episode, it was to show Rafael distracted by Jane and forgetting about Petra/Jane showing to be snippy and distant with him). 

 

So yes, I want one full episode where Rafael has Mateo, because I do think he can be a good father. It's also the moments where I like Rafael. But this show has Mateo with Jane constantly and we don't SEE those solo moments with Rafael/Mateo. When we do, he's usually around other people like Jane so I don't find that it counts. I know this is Jane's show, but it would be nice to see Rafael take care of his son and not just hear about it. 

[Tara Ariano]

In case you missed it, here's the Previously.TV post on the episode!

 

Jane The Virgin Tries To Get In Sync
But can everyone get in the swing of things?

[AudienceofOne]

Did I actually type "there's no Michael/Jane bubble world" in my last comment? Because I swear to God I hadn't watched ahead. I couldn't believe it when they literally put a bubble over them and said "their own little bubble" and then had the bubble pop when she mentioned Rafael. Goosebumps. Especially because I'm binge watching and had just typed my episode 12 comment about two minutes beforehand.

 

But Michael it seems has learnt his lesson so I guess there's televisual redemption after all. At least for now. I still maintain his natural personality traits of being a possessive, petulant asshat will rise to the surface again. But we'll see. Meanwhile, Raf is once again in a dark place. Could the writers cut this poor guy a fucking break? To me, this is verging on character assassination but I guess when you everything you love has been stripped away you're a shadow of your former self.

 

The highlight of this episode for me was Jane and Luisa. It's about time Luisa had somebody to talk to properly and Jane and IA-lady-whose-name-I-can-never-remember are the two best people she could have around her right now.

Edited April 15, 2016 by AudienceofOne

[ElectricBoogaloo]

For me, the two most pertinent things in this Michael vs. Rafael debate are (1) Jane flat out said she loves Michael and isn't in love with Rafael (2) Jane chose Michael and then Rafael basically admitted at the end of this episode that his concern about Michael's job putting Mateo and Jane in danger was just an excuse to cover the fact that he is hurt Jane chose Michael over Rafael.

Rafael is Mateo's father so of course anything that would put Mateo in danger is a valid concern, but once Jane told him that Michael was willing to quit his job to be with her, Rafael's objection was no longer valid and he STILL didn't want to accept Jane choosing Michael.

The main crux of the problem is that Rafael is still in love with Jane but she isn't in love with him. When she wasn't dating anyone, it was easier for him to believe that they would reconcile (see also: Rogelio and Xiomara). But we saw cracks in that even before this episode when Jane told Rafael about how Lina ambushed her into a blind date. He clearly wasn't happy about it. Even though earlier in this episode he told Jane "anyone but Michael," the fact is that he's still in love with her and therefore would be unhappy no matter who she chose to date. But what it always comes back to is that she isn't in love with Rafael and no amount of being nice on one end of the spectrum or refusing to accept Michael on the other end of the spectrum is actually going to make her change her mind. I know you can't help how you feel so it's not Rafael's fault that he's in love with Jane, but by the same token Jane can't help that she loves Michael either and she shouldn't feel obligated to be with Rafael just because he's in love with her (which seems to be his attitude).

I get that he's acting out because he's hurt and frustrated but it really doesn't help his argument when his immediate reaction to Jane telling him she's going to be with Michael is for him to try to reconcile with Petra and then to get drunk at the bar and pick up some random girl. The only good thing was that Petra was smart enough and proud enough not to take Rafael as Jane's sloppy seconds. Now the game has changed. She only wants him back if he's really hers.

I totally understand Petra's concern that she and her kids would always be second to Jane and it's a valid concern. But I thought the impetus for that was minor. Rafael didn't make a decision to flake or leave her hanging. Someone else changed the time of Mateo's swim class and he forgot to tell Petra. I am not giving Rafael a 100% pass on this situation because it was his responsibility to remember that he had night nurse interviews scheduled. All I'm saying is that I've seen situations where someone very deliberately chooses to favor one child or part of the family and that's not what happened here. I don't think it was even unconscious favoritism in this situation. Despite that, I'm glad that Petra brought it up so that he is aware of her concern and he can make a conscious effort not to favor anyone in his family.

But Rafael definitely needs to keep his calendar updated! Ha, remember what a big deal it was when Jane and Michael merged (and then unmerged) their calendars? And then when Jane unshared her calendar with Rafael? I think Jane, Petra, and Rafael need to work out some sort of online calendar for the three of them so that this doesn't happen again in the future.

Edited September 27, 2016 by ElectricBoogaloo

[CerealKiller813]

Am I In the minority group that is completely pissed about how Jane treats Raf? I honestly am having issues watching the show because of it. Raf never gets the benefit of the doubt and Jane has always thought the worst when it comes to him. I am and forever will be Team Rafael. I am new to the show (actually watching the episode after this one right now) but since Rafael came onto the scene, Jane was extra hard on him. Maybe it was because she was pregnant and all that's but even after she had Mateo, I don't see her giving him any leeway. it's not fair that he is always given the short stick. He's a great dad and boy is he handsome! He has real reasons to be mad at Michael and I don't understand how, even before Rose "died", Jane was too blinded to see it. i am hoping that in upcoming episodes some fact checks Jane and let's her see how judgy she is. I understand that she is with Michael now (I don't exactly trust him) but I feel for Raf.

[AudienceofOne]

Quote

Am I In the minority group that is completely pissed about how Jane treats Raf?

Nope. I'm regularly extremely annoyed about the torture porn that is Raf's life. I guess from a telenovela standpoint, his mistreatment is necessary to balance his wealth (narratively) but it's getting too much. Between Raf and Michael, Raf is regularly the bigger person but rarely gets any credit for it.

As an aside, I also binge watched the first season. I think when you do that you see just how appalling Michael's behaviour was. In real life it would be almost unforgivable.

Jane is judgey though. It's part of her character. So at least mostly she's an equal-opportunity judger.

[CerealKiller813]

On January 22, 2017 at 1:03 PM, AudienceofOne said:

Nope. I'm regularly extremely annoyed about the torture porn that is Raf's life. I guess from a telenovela standpoint, his mistreatment is necessary to balance his wealth (narratively) but it's getting too much. Between Raf and Michael, Raf is regularly the bigger person but rarely gets any credit for it.

As an aside, I also binge watched the first season. I think when you do that you see just how appalling Michael's behaviour was. In real life it would be almost unforgivable.

Jane is judgey though. It's part of her character. So at least mostly she's an equal-opportunity judger.

I have been binge watching this and I am in the middle of season 2. I cannot stand this halo that is put around Micheal. This man was working with the woman who was responsible for Mateos kidnapping. FOH if you think I'm just going to let that one slide dude. Raf needs more loving and I hate to see him always getting the short end of the stick. He has basically no family but his kids and Jane is constantly up his ass about something because she is hella judge mental!! 

 

Sry for the rant but I really thought I was alone in the Love Raf boat. Lol