S01.E03: Other Voices, Other Rooms

[shapeshifter]

Jake finds an unlikely ally in his quest in local drifter Bill Turcote. He gets a teaching job in a small town near Dallas and discovers romantic sparks with school librarian Sadie Dunhill. Jake constructs a double life - spying at night on Lee Harvey Oswald as the potential assassin within Jake builds. Trailing Oswald takes Jake into the dark side of Dallas, where he realizes Oswald may not be the only threat Kennedy will have to face.

Last week Hulu had already released the episode by 5am CST, so maybe they do it at midnight?

[zxy556575]

Well. That was just ... weird. I don't like Bill and don't see the point.

[QQQQ]

The actor playing Bill just seems a little too exaggerated. A scenery chewer...? I don't know, he takes me out of the story.

[Should Be Working]

Jake's choice of taking on  Bill as partner seems ridiculous and unwarranted in every respect and will spin the Hulu series off in unproductive and wasted directions. The kid's an impulsive and unpredictable hayseed whose Daddy whipped him bad as a child and created a borderline personality moron with a lame Kentucky accent in the process.

 

To start with, expect Billy to start using that notebook to place surefire sports bets with the local sharks and putting Jake in even more jeopardy that his own bets did in the Stephen King novel. Hell, he's just an annoying character in general who doesn't bring anything positive or interesting to the story. Here's hoping he disappears  real soon, y'hear?

[Primetimer]

Finally back in Texas, Jake sets up his double life: mild-mannered high school teacher by day, stalker of Lee Harvey Oswald by night.

Read the story

[reggiejax]

Last week Hulu had already released the episode by 5am CST, so maybe they do it at midnight?

 

I have found all three episodes available as of midnight CST.

 

Was glad to be back on the trail of the assassin. And I like that the nature of the plot means they have the opportunity to go a bit deeper than most JFK assassination related material tends to go. By which I mean the inclusion of General Walker. The Walker assassination attempt does not get a lot of attention in other works about the assassination. The Oliver Stone film completely ignored it. Yet it is important because it was one of the linchpins of the Warren Commission case for Oswald being a lone assassin. Their investigation saw them conclude that Oswald acted alone in attempting, and failing, to kill Walker, so it was therefore a precedent for his acting alone in the successful JFK assassination. The only people who give the Walker attempt any time are those who agree with the Warren Commission. Conspiracy theorists recognize the event, but tend to dismiss it offhand as yet more chicanery that bolsters a conspiracy. I really appreciate that Walker is central to the plot of 11.22.63.

 

OK, enough assassination geekery. This was a good episode, and I am loving the actress playing Sadie. She is easy on the eyes to be sure, but she has a natural charm that can't be contained. Yet she also manages to convey that there will be trouble ahead for her and Jake. I haven't read the book, but I am sentient and from this planet, so I know our star-crossed lovers will face a hurdle or two.

 

And they are really setting up the time and place of the Dallas-Fort Worth area of the early 60's. We expect to see the bigotry of the times, but they are really showcasing how virulent the strain was in that particular area. For those who want an overview on the particular issue of the radical conservatism of Dallas at the time, I recommend the book "Dallas 1963" by Bill Minutaglio and Steven L. Davis. It really demonstrates what kind of place JFK was coming to on his fateful trip.

Edited February 29, 2016 by reggiejax

[GreekGeek]

Well. That was just ... weird. I don't like Bill and don't see the point.

I was surprised to see him made into a full-fledged sidekick, since that's a huge departure from the book. I think he's there because having Jake work alone and narrate everything he does in voiceover wouldn't work onscreen, although it's fine in a book. I agree Bill will turn into a liability at some point. I thought he would spill the whole plan to Jack Ruby! He seems awfully accepting that Jake is from the future. I wonder if he really is that trusting or if he has a hidden agenda.

[numbnut]

Yikes. Bill is such a loose cannon. I'm guessing Jake thought it was better to keep him around than to have him running off at the mouth elsewhere. I'm not sure how proving the Oswald/Walker link proves that Oswald absolutely acted alone with JFK. YMMV. I'm sure Jake standing up for Miss Mimi (great name!) will not fare well.

 

I am loving the actress playing Sadie. She is easy on the eyes to be sure, but she has a natural charm that can't be contained.

 

She's great in Denis Villeneuve's Enemy with Jake Gyllenhaal, so I was hoping she would be good here too. The romance subplot is endearing.

Edited March 1, 2016 by numbnut

[shapeshifter]

Choreographed dancing at a small town high school dance in 62?

[GreekGeek]

I also wondered where Jake and Bill got those "FBI badges" that they flashed at the guy who took their tapes. Did Al supply them?

Edited March 1, 2016 by GreekGeek

[reggiejax]

Choreographed dancing at a small town high school dance in 62?

 

Though 1962 was way before my time, I know that what the kids were doing at the dance was a line dance called "The Madison". I happen to know it because it was featured in the film "Hairspray". By which I mean the original, John Waters directed "Hairspray", not the crap remake. Though I imagine they used it in the remake too. But for my money, Ricki Lake is the Queen of The Madison.

 

 

 

I'm not sure how proving the Oswald/Walker link proves that Oswald absolutely acted alone with JFK. YMMV.

 

All by it's lonesome, it does not. But in proper context, using the vast amounts of available evidence, and a bit of logic, it makes for incredibly strong circumstantial evidence that Oswald acted alone in the JFK plot.

Edited March 1, 2016 by reggiejax

[hatchetgirl]

The Madison is a great, pretty easy dance to do. Heck I can do it. Lol. It's a call line dance so if you know the song, you know what steps are coming up. I wish they would have done The Stroll, though as I believe it was more popular at the time. I thought him knowing that 40's swing style was way hard to believe as he doesn't seem old enough. That would make him around 20 or so in 1942 or thereabouts. Does he seem 40ish in this show? The librarian definitely does not look 40. Maybe 28 or am i just that bad at age guessing.

It was interesting, I missed episode 2, did his student and mom die? I don't know if I can watch that.

That kid does seem like a huge liability. How did he get stuck with him?

I liked this episode more than the first. Can someone let me know if there isn't any kid killing in episode 2 and if I can watch? I'm really sensitive to violence, especially with kids.

[dr pepper]

Episode 2 features a halfbaked plan to save the childhood of his future prize adult education student by getting his mom to leave town the night of the murder. All it does is get him beaten up.

And so he ends up taking the direct approach, he stops the father from murdering the mother and sister by shooting and then strangling him. But before he can do that he's confronted by Bill about lurking. "He's going to kill his wife tonight if i don't kill him first!" "how do you know that?" "i'm from the future, And i have a gun so back off!" "Ok, ok, and actually i don't care if you kill him, because that *&^%$#@! already killed his first wife, who happened to be my sister!"

Afterward, he's leaving town when Bill catches up with him. See, part of history pushing back in that episode was a freak fire in his rented room that destroys some of his paperwork. Bill has found some of what he managed to salvage-- a newspaper page about the assassination.

Bill is freaking out, or whatever it was americans did before the term `freaking out' was coined. but he's also intrigued and has no reason to stick around town, so he wheedles his way into the project.

[GreekGeek]

It was interesting, I missed episode 2, did his student and mom die? I don't know if I can watch that.

That kid does seem like a huge liability. How did he get stuck with him?

I liked this episode more than the first. Can someone let me know if there isn't any kid killing in episode 2 and if I can watch? I'm really sensitive to violence, especially with kids.

As far as we now know, the mom and siblings of the student (Harry) did not die and Harry was spared brain damage. 

 

There is some violence and kid killing in a quick flashback and quite a bit of violence with Frank (the abusive dad) beating up his wife and trying to kill his family, and in Jake's fighting and ultimately killing him. 

 

Are you sensitive to violence against animals? If so, you may want to fast forward past a scene in a slaughterhouse where Jake is shown the rotting carcass of a cow and then told to bludgeon another cow to death. You might want to skip the episode for that reason alone.

[shapeshifter]

So is Jake's romance with the now-divorced librarian (with whom he was smitten in the earlier episode before he realized she was married to a seemingly abusive jerk) his reward by Time for killing the serial killer father of his future adult student? Sort of a positive "push back" instead of a negative one (like the paper-destroying fire).

[Danny Franks]

Another good episode. And they're finally getting into the meat of the story, with Oswald and de Mohrenschildt. The actor playing Oswald was very effective. He had an odd, almost crazed energy, which makes him stand out both as a likely culprit and as a very useful patsy. The show is playing its cards close to its chest as to whether Oswald pulled the trigger, and I like that.

 

I also really like Sadie. The actress is lovely, and the 1962 style suits her down to the ground. She also has a nice, engaging and witty personality, but with enough fire to give Jake a very sincere warning not to mess her around. I can see why Jake is falling for her so quickly. She's worth staying in the past for. More of her, please.

 

The stuff with Jake coming face to face with racial prejudice, and not wanting to stand for it was good. As long as he sticks to low key demonstrations like with the gas, he should be okay. Especially when the very cool Deke is also a progressive guy.

 

I'll say again that giving Jake a sidekick makes sense, because otherwise he'd have to voice-over the whole time, just to explain his thought processes. Having a lone hero who talks to himself is fine in a book or a comic book, but not on the screen. And while Bill is a bit of a dope, I don't think he was a liability other than when he was drunk, and he apologised for that and seemed to learn his lesson. He's a relatively uneducated young guy from a small town, but he's been pretty useful to Jake so far, and he seems quick enough to understand what it is they need to do.

 

The perfect example of him being necessary was the scene with them walking through Dealey Plaza. Because Bill is there, it means Jake can give us a brief run through of what people think happened, where Oswald and the possible other shooters fired from. He couldn't do that if he was alone.

 

Having Jack Ruby randomly pop up (which was obvious to me as soon as I saw they were in a nightclub in Dallas) was cool. I'm sure that Jake will meet other prominent figures involved in events as the season goes on. I just hope he doesn't actually meet Kennedy. That would be a bit too cute.

[zibnchy]

I'm liking Franco as Jake. Don'tknow much about his work but his take on Jake jibes pretty well with how I visualized the character when I recently reread the book.

Love Miss Mimi, Hoping to start liking the Deke character soon.

[Trillian]

Anyone else find the swearing among the school faculty - in front of ladies, even - to be anachronistic? Same with people using each other's first names right off the bat? Those both seem like much later cultural developments. Anyone remember?

[shapeshifter]

Anyone else find the swearing among the school faculty - in front of ladies, even - to be anachronistic? Same with people using each other's first names right off the bat? Those both seem like much later cultural developments. Anyone remember?

Swearing in the late 60s was something high school kids did when no adults were around. I remember being shocked in the 80s when my father started using "damn" and "hell" because it was socially acceptable. But no, the F word was not used by most adults in the 60s that I can recall.

[hatchetgirl]

Love Miss Mimi!

I think they are playing Oswald well because he was quite a slightly built, hi string kook. I never quite understood his trip to Russia.

[stonehaven]

I am still loving the music for this show..the direction..but most of all James Franco..which surprises the hell out of me...

This show really does suck me in...and will be a bit sad when it's over...

[BonnieD]

It's been a couple of years since I read the book so my memories are hazy, but I was going "Jeez, is my memory that bad?" when they brought in the new character. Glad to know I'm not losing it. While I fully understand the point of having someone for Jake to narrate to, here are a couple of things that bugged me about Bill's inclusion. The timeline. When did Bill gather those materials from the burned out apt? How did he catch up with Jake at the rest area in such a timely way? What does he do all day while Jake is working? Just monitor the apt. and nothing else? A person from the past would want to know absolutely EVERYTHING about the what happens in the future. Throw us a bone and show him asking stuff.

Also, when it rained, all I could think of was Jake's convertible. I never saw him put up the top. Does it have one? Is the upholstery ruined? Wait. Was he driving it in the rain on his way out of town? Did it have a top? Guess I need to replay that portion.

I'm very confused about Oswald's motives. He hated fascist General Walker. Check. But he also wanted to kill forward thinking, liberal Kennedy? His agenda doesn't make any sense to me.

[lucindabelle]

I dreamed about this show last night! Dreamed Jake came back and found a smiling 80-something woman in the diner... The teacher.

Id been talking with my mom about how jake could ever find out whether kennedy really made all the difference because he couldn't go back after ( we think) and I said sure he can, he can time travel the way all of us do, day by day. I mean, anyone in thier mid 80s was alive and an adult in 1963. No reason Jake can't just meander his way back to 2016.

I love the kid. His accent is regional which doesn't make him stupid, I love that he is still a kid and can't handle his liquor though he was a bartender.

I like the idea of the universe pushing back good, though this being king, I doubt it. Still it would be lovely. I really hate the moral that trying to do good leads to bad in unexpected ways because most often it doesn't. Also, the butterfly effect is a little overplayed. I highly doubt my downloading one jigsaw puzzle pack over another last night, or deciding to eat one thing vs another, had any effect whatsoever on anything, sure it's a wonderful life and all,b ut george Bailey ran a freaking building and loan. His life had a huge impact on all those people with mortgages not to mention saving his little brother from death! I agree that every life matters but in storytelling small changes are exaggerated to a ridiculous degree. Kind of liked back to the future and how things were made better if for no other reason than that it made a nice change from the usual boring you can't chnge fate and "you shouldn't be here" whichis just cliched.

[molshoop]

 

I'm very confused about Oswald's motives. He hated fascist General Walker. Check. But he also wanted to kill forward thinking, liberal Kennedy? His agenda doesn't make any sense to me.

 

         He believed in Marxist Socialism.

[ganesh]

The Walker assassination attempt does not get a lot of attention in other works about the assassination.

 

I didn't know anything about it until this show. I was hoping I'd learn something new. 

 

I don't really have a problem with Bill. I don't see how Jake would be able to listen to tape all day and hold down a job. You also need to talk to someone. TV isn't good at presenting a character's inner monologue typically.

 

I liked the scene at the gas station. Miss Mimi looked like she was going to cry.

 

In the last scene, it looked to me like George was assessing Oswald. Given that he's got a hot temper, and Bill says he complains all the time, he seems like an easy patsy. 

 

I'm hoping that the 'conspiracy' isn't really a huge grand thing, and the actual assassination was just some simple plan. I've always leaned toward the mafia being behind it, but I don't know if the show is going to do there. 

[Milburn Stone]

Id been talking with my mom about how jake could ever find out whether kennedy really made all the difference...and I said sure he can, he can time travel the way all of us do, day by day...No reason Jake can't just meander his way back to 2016.

 

I love this observation that we are all time travelers! Great insight.

[lucindabelle]

Thanks Milburn Stone! It's a little pet peeve of mine that so often period drama and time travel stories forget that people don't just exist in one era. The greasers of the 50s could have been at Woodstock could have been discoing in the 70s (and probably were since Barry Manilow was singing about divorce and things, so no longer in high school).

 

The Schlegel sisters of "Howard's End" could have been little old ladies eating sherbet when Don Draper drove up with Megan in "Mad Men."

 

Anne Frank would be turning 87 this year. :)

[Milburn Stone]

lucindabelle, even though I'm not loving 11.23.61 as a TV series, one of the things I do like about it is how it makes you see that the 8-year old you pass on the street today is the 80-year old of tomorrow, and vice versa. This hits home when Jake, who knows Henry as an old man, sees Henry as a child, and has to "process" that they are one and the same. None of us are static--we are all constantly changing. Our eyes just can't detect it.

 

Incidentally, "old" Henry does not look good for his age at all. In 2016, he can't be more than 63, judging by the apparent age of young Henry in 1961. Yet 2016 Henry looks more like 79. Life has been unkind.

[lucindabelle]

That's true, Milburn Stone!  You're right, Henry looks older. I've been assuming he suffered brain injury from the now aborted attack.

[Superpole2000]

I really enjoyed this episode. I adored the Sadie subplot, and the period elements of this show are very enjoyable. I wish the sidekick wasn't quite so bumbling, but otherwise I'm impressed.