S06.E08: Season 6, Episode 8

[Fake Jan Brady]

So Mary and Tom didn't end up together and Violet didn't die overseas. Remind me not to ask anyone around here for footy tips or lottery numbers. ;-)

 

I wonder how much Harriet Walter got paid to basically be a featured extra at the wedding?

 

At least Barrow perked up enough to attend the nuptials.

[ElectricBoogaloo]

Okay, this episode sucked but there were still some good moments:

(1) everyone's genuine glee about Edith becoming a marchioness and then the camera swings over to reveal Mary's bitchface

(2) Tom asking Mary if she will enjoy having to curtsy to her sister

(3) Henry calling Mary on her classist bullshit

(4) Tom totally calling Mary on her bullshit multiple times and telling her to quit lying and acting innocent

(5) Edith calling Mary on her bullshit

(6) everyone giggling about Mrs. Patmore's House of Ill Repute

 

Mary's behavior in this episode brought to mind a quote from Center Stage. "Is she a bitch?" "Biggest bitch." While I totally understand how annoying it is to have everyone you know telling you to marry some guy you already dumped, that doesn't give you the right to deliberately break up your sister's engagement. ITA with the previous post that said Mary's main reason for doing it wasn't even that she was mad at Edith about anything in particular, but because she kicked Henry out and then was pissed that he wasn't still there at breakfast the next morning to do some more begging and groveling. That was some classic middle school bull shit right there. Go away! Wait, why aren't you pursuing me anymore? Oh, you took my words literally? But if you really love me, you should know that I didn't really mean it! Then when she deigned to lower herself to reconcile with Henry, she told him that she didn't know why she'd fought against it, despite the fact that she JUST said in the previous scene with Violet that she didn't want to be a race widow again.

 

I'm glad that Tom kept pointing out Mary's bitchiness. When she tried to compare Bertie and Henry and basically saying that Henry, the guy she's been rejecting, is hot but Bertie is a troll, I was like good lord, you can't refrain from insulting your sister's boyfriend even when she's not there to hear it!

 

I loved that when Mary asked Cora why she had invited Henry to stay without consulting her first, Cora said that they couldn't be rude. Manners, bitch!

 

But above all, I hate that everyone was excusing Mary's behavior because "she's unhappy." So the fuck what? You can be unhappy without being a heinous bitch. And what does it tell you when Mary's apology to her MAID for snapping at her is more sincere than when she apologized to her sister for blowing up her engagement? I HATE that she deliberately dropped a grenade right into Edith's lap and then barely apologized and got a happy ending. Ugh.

 

I found it hilarious when Edith drove off to the train station with Tom in the passenger seat. Who would have ever guessed that the chauffeur would be sitting in the passenger seat while one of the ladies of the house drove him somewhere?

[ElizaD]

Well, at least the wedding dress was fabulous. But Henry was pretty much Gillingham with a car.

 

And aww, puppy! Again the bright spot of the episode.

 

I haven't seen Mary tell Talbot about either Pamuk or Gillingham, two scandals which could come back to drag her through the mud some day.  Having dealt with that insecurity herself, maybe she should be more sympathetic to the fact that Edith had a lovechild with her fiance before he died and felt insecure about it.

 

It would be nice if Mary or Edith remembered that in the Pamuk situation, Edith's response was to call Mary a slut and deliberately set out to shame her and ruin her marriage prospects. Has everyone completely forgotten about that? Why should Mary feel sympathy for Edith and treat her better than Edith treated her? When Mary does what Edith did, why does that make her the bitch?

 

Edith has never expressed any remorse, so she's fine with public shaming and relationships being ruined due to extramarital affairs; she shouldn't act like it somehow becomes tragic now that it's happening to her instead of being something she can do to Mary. At least Mary sent Carson out of the room and didn't start gossiping with her London friends about Marigold when she could have copied the Pamuk letter situation to hurt Edith on the same wider level that Edith wanted to hurt her. Am I really supposed to feel sorry that Edith's own scheming to make Bertie raise Marigold without telling him the truth, and thus potentially making him vulnerable to scandal, was foiled? Right after Edith talked about Henry abandoning Mary and acted like the engagement was all about beating Mary and making her feel bad? She should have told Bertie herself, like Mary told Matthew and Carlisle about Pamuk ten years ago when that scandal was still around. Now Edith's spiteful wish to humiliate Mary ended up hurting her instead, just like in season 1. Edith starts a fight and somehow she's the victim? It's clear that she's never going to learn: she'll just keep on being nasty in her poor-me way and looking shocked when Mary (or someone else with a spine) won't let her get away with it. It's not Mary's fault that Edith didn't trust Bertie and can't ever admit that she did something questionable when it's so much easier to call Mary a slut or a bitch than to take responsibility for her own actions.

 

I seriously hope Mary won't be apologizing again in the Christmas special since Edith never apologized for the Pamuk letter: Mary shouldn't have to act like only she tried to ruin a sister's marriage prospects just because Edith is totally indifferent to what she did to Mary out of pure jealousy. Edith seems perfectly content to forget all about it since no one else in the family ever found out. Mary gets trashed by family members but she never outed Edith's scheming to them, so they're judging Mary with no idea of the low to which Edith earlier sunk in order to hurt her (and the reputation of everyone else by association, but she didn't care about that either). Edith has no appreciation for how lucky she is: she has never had to face being called out on her shit by anyone other than Mary. The difference between the two of them is that Edith puts on the victim act when her bullying attempts fail without ever realizing that maybe she's been a bitch too, unable to even wish Mary happiness when she married Matthew yet expecting totally different treatment when it's her turn to find a nice husband despite having had a previous sexual relationship. Edith's hypocrisy is amazing: she had the audacity to find Mary's apology and remorse insufficient when it's far, far more than she ever cared to give Mary after trying to ruin her. Her total unawareness of the similarities between the Pamuk letter and Mary bringing up the truth about Marigold shows how self-centered she is.

[olivia1]

Is there any chance at all that Michael Gregson will show up in the CS? There was something about the way Lord G said he expectd more surprises about Edith. I forgot exactly how he said it, but since they never found his body him coming back would be a big surprise. , Besides I thought Bertie seemed like  a whipped Mama's boy. 

Edited November 9, 2015 by olivia1

[rudystx01]

Sad Edith didn't get her happy ending. Lukewarm about Mary and Henry. I will say one thing, Henry should only be photographed head on, because from the side, that chin is weak.

 

Was it such a big deal that Ms. Pattmoore had an adulterous couple at her B&B? I can't believe they didn't have anything else to worry about back then.

[Alonzo Mosely FBI]

Hope Bertie marries Edith but I dunno. If his Mom is strict, that's a problem. And also if Mrs Drewe is still alive wouldn't that chap her ass to see Edith prancing around with her title. She would come out of the woodwork for sure. And who would be the Brancaster heir? marigold ? It's complicated. I think he comes back and re proposes and Gregson shows up. Maybe even at the wedding ! The closing with Roberts voice over promised "surprises".

Was Bertie's sensitivity chip for his gay cousin some kind of foreshadowing ? Is Bertie looking for a marriage that's good on paper? If he is indeed straight with a genuine sensitivity chip for homosexuals maybe Thomas can butler for them, though I would like to see Thomas stay with Mary, for little George.

Mary's face when they found out Edith would out rank her. What a bitch. Despise her. I hope Henry makes her a crash widow again, but quick. Sorry Henry you have no chin and zombie eyes and you do nothing for this show. Zero.

SPRATT! Awesome.

Carson is being written miserably now that he is married. It's ridiculous.

Tom and Edith have no chemistry yet they do have more chemistry than Mary and Henry sadly. Their smack down of Mary was beautiful.

What was the damn purpose of telling Molesley that Thomas had influenza when Baxter who found him is going to tell him everything anyway? Dumb.

Mary at the breakfast table like a cobra. She is un redeemable.

Edith showed tremendous strength and poise at work after the breakup no wallowing no buckets of tears. She is 100x what Mary is.

[ElectricBoogaloo]

I would totally watch a spinoff of Edith in London working on her magazine with the lady editor. She is so much more vibrant in those scenes, which I love.

[ZoloftBlob]

It would be nice if Mary or Edith remembered that in the Pamuk situation, Edith's response was to call Mary a slut and deliberately set out to shame her and ruin her marriage prospects. Has everyone completely forgotten about that? Why should Mary feel sympathy for Edith and treat her better than Edith treated her? When Mary does what Edith did, why does that make her the bitch?

 

I would say because once Mary ruined Edith's first chance with Sir Anthony Strallan, to a certain extent they were even. Edith ruined her life, Mary ruined hers, everyone go back to their corners. For Edith to have earned this at this point, Edith would have needed to have dropped the bomb on Matthew that Mary was lying about being a virgin... but that never happened.

 

I'm genuinely curious what Henry would have done if he had known about the Pamuk and Gillingham scenarios... but we'll never know since Edith wasn't vicious enough to go there, and Mary didn't care enough about her second husband to bother telling him.

 

This episode had some huge pacing errors. And for the record, if the scene at Matthew's grave had taken place in late season four, I think the audience would have been on board with the Gillingham pairing...

[DeccaMitford]

All I could think of through this episode was this: http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/ProtagonistCenteredMoralityand just had to laugh by the end. What a mess.

 

And you know what, I don't hate Mary as a character. I think she's incredibly complicated, and Michelle Dockery did a great job when she was given the opportunity to stretch herself (which was increasingly little). To my mind, she's in the same line of anti-heroes as Don Draper. I don't mind a lead character going dark and being terrible, and I wish more shows had the courage to let their female leads go there along with their male ones.

The issue is, Don Draper actually faced consequences for the terrible way he treated people, and sometimes lost his chance with people even though he felt bad about it, and Mary faces no consequences whatsoever. Or, she gets yelled at for a little while, confesses that she was acting out of her own misery, and then everyone forgives her (while pushing her towards marrying a man she doesn't want to marry).

I can understand Mary's unhappiness as a cause for her nastiness, and I don't think it necessarily has to make her irredeemable to an audience, but why should Edith forgive her? Why should Edith care if Mary is happy at this point, except that Mary is the main character? Why on earth did every tirade at Mary turn into a chance for the other character to tell her how great Talbot was for her? Why would that be their priority at that moment, except for the fact that they apparently all read a memo telling them that they are fictional characters in a show about Mary Crawley's love life, and they'd better prioritize accordingly? I don't mind the show itself prioritizing that way, but a good writer should be able to come up with motivations for his characters beyond "everyone's making Mary the center of their own lives because...whatever."

[kpw801]

What gets me is the way that even when Mary told Matthew the truth about Parmuk and her parents knew the truth, somehow Mary still got her man when Matthew told her he couldn't judge her for living her life...

 

Mary already got even with Edith by ruining her marriage to Anthony Strallan just before the war.  Then her parents and the dowager ruined the reboot by rudeness and coldness to him.  Now, when Edith finally gets another chance at happiness, Mary ruins it yet again!  At this point, Edith is 33 years old with a child.  No one else in the family would have thrown Edith to the wolves like Mary just did!

 

Talk about scandal!  The Parmuk thing was still mostly rumor (the audience knew the truth and Anna and Cora) but outsiders may have had some doubts about it.  Even the confirmation of her shame was squelched for her by Richard Carlisle.  She got the man of her dreams and conceived an heir and meanwhile Edith after being jilted and hurt by Anthony Strallan twice and then having the father of her child vanish and turn up dead after 1 year - she is still being punished while Mary waltzes into the sunshine with the tall dark handsome race car driver. 

 

I hate Julian Fellowes!  So Edith's last scene is in a cemetary watching the children play like some old maid spinster.  What was that - the worst ending ever! 

Edited November 9, 2015 by kpw801

[whorl]

When Mary does what Edith did, why does that make her the bitch?

 

 

Mary also said something incredibly rude to her father upon hearing of Thomas's suicide attempt. She was deliberately cruel to him in the presence of her mother and aunt. Edith would have never done such a thing. Say what you will about Edith's cruelties to Mary way back in season one, but Mary continues to be selfish and mean to others to this day. She wins the Queen Bitch title hands down. I'm relieved that Tom didn't end up with such a terrible woman.  

[Llywela]

And who would be the Brancaster heir? marigold ?

No, Marigold would never be the Brancaster heir, not even if Edith acknowledged her as her daughter. Estates are all about bloodline, and Marigold has no blood relationship to Bertie's family, either legitimate or otherwise. As things stand, she'd be exactly the same as she is now: a ward of the house, a supposed foundling lucky enough to be raised in privileged surroundings but with no official standing of her own. If Edith acknowledged her publicly, she'd be known as Bertie's stepdaughter, but with the stigma of scandal clinging to her. If Bertie and Edith had a child, that child would be the Brancaster heir - Marigold would have no claim on it whatsoever.

 

Is there any chance at all that Michael Gregson will show up in the CS? There was something about the way Lord G said he expectd more surprises about Edith. I forgot exactly how he said it, but since they never found his body him coming back would be a big surprise. , Besides I thought Bertie seemed like  a whipped Mama's boy.

I'm pretty sure Gregson's body was eventually found and identified. That was how Edith knew for sure he was dead, not just missing.

Edited November 9, 2015 by Llywela

[kpw801]

I really got a thrill out of seeing the preview when Edith finally told Mary off for the petty, jealous bitch she is. And I absolutely loved at the beginning of the episode watching Mary's snide, satisfied condescension about Bertie losing his job become jealous disdain once she found out he is now her better. And the showdown was satisfying, though if I were Edith I would have started throwing the silver, the water pitcher, my cup of tea at Mary's face the second Bertie left the room, and I wouldn't have given her romantic advice at the end, either.

 

I haven't seen Mary tell Talbot about either Pamuk or Gillingham, two scandals which could come back to drag her through the mud some day.  Having dealt with that insecurity herself, maybe she should be more sympathetic to the fact that Edith had a lovechild with her fiance before he died and felt insecure about it. 

 

I kept waiting for Bertie to show up, even up until the last two seconds when Edith was watching the children play around Sybil's grave. 

Me too!  I kept watching the clock thinking he would be there in the church waiting to sweep her into his arms.  I just cannot believe the way this was written.  Everyone thinks Bertie will come back and marry Edith but JF may just let him disappear or be killed by a tiger in Tangiers or something. 

 

I hate the way this ended!

 

It really fucking pisses me off that Mary got away with everything yet again; she didn't go to London to try and make amends with Edith, I thought for sure that it would be her in the waiting room, instead of Spratt...  Mary does not deserve Edith's goodwill, Mary better start writing to Bertie trying to convince him to come back for her, fucking do SOMETHING to actually make it right rather then act as a passive receiver of Edith's character. 

I'd much rather see Edith move out and set firm boundaries, such as never being in Mary's presence again unless absolutely necessary.  That bitch shouldn't be allowed to win it all yet again, though she didn't win much since I don't really buy or care about her marriage.  And Bertie better come back!!!!!!  Preferably without any of JF's ridiculous, clumsy  references to Tenessee Williams.  I need to see Mary defer to Edith as the Marchioness. 

 

RBJ should have been given the chance to display his acting skills by performing his own attempted suicide, rather then just giving all the action to Baxter.  It could have been much more meaningful then him just being found in the bathtub, unconcious.  And despite the people running down dingy hallways, I didn't really get the sense of medical urgency here.  Perhaps if we had seen Dr. Clarkson and learned how he treated Thomas...I'm still not happy that Thomas won't go to London and find love, or at least casual sex. 

 

I guess Tom could still get a job in journalism and start seeing Edith's editor or move back to Ireland in the christmas episode?  But yeah, everyone else's story was shafted in favor of Mary's, including Tom who spent all of his time on her instead of himself.  What do you get for devoting yourself to a selfish, self-interested narcissist?  The chance to keep doing it.

[kpw801]

And another thing!  (I am on a rant).  We hardly ever saw Mary with Henry Talbot but the audience was much more invested in the Edith/Bertie relationship.  We saw them work together to get the magazine published, we saw romantic walks in the park together.  We even saw them declare their love and it was believable.  what did we see with Henry Talbot except Tom standing around like a soloist in a Greek chorus telling the audience and the characters what they were really feeling. 

 

This is the second long term relationship Edith had where the audience was totally invested in the happy ending.  JF did the same thing with Michael Gregson.  I wasn't sure if Edith really loved Anthony Strallen.  i think she would have been somewhat content but with Michael Gregson and Bertie, she felt true love and some passion.  We felt it!  Then to have it over so abruptly TWICE !!  This was too much for me.

[wlk68]

The things I liked: The scene where George and Mary visited Thomas. Molesley succeeding as a teacher.

 

As for the rest? Meh. I was screaming at the television when Mary outed Edith to Bertie. I called her a word that starts with C, ends with T and rhymes with punt. Repeatedly. If the shoe fits, sweetie.

 

With Molesley probably going off to be a teacher full time and Carson eventually retiring, I'd like to see Thomas end up being for George what Carson was for Mary. In general I wish there'd been more scenes dealing with Thomas' suicide. If felt very rushed.

 

I love that Edith is a strong independent woman who runs a business. She doesn't NEED a man but I would like to see her and Bertie reconcile in the CS because she does deserve some romance and personal relationship happiness.    

Edited November 9, 2015 by wlk68

[vesperholly]

It would be nice if Mary or Edith remembered that in the Pamuk situation, Edith's response was to call Mary a slut and deliberately set out to shame her and ruin her marriage prospects. Has everyone completely forgotten about that? Why should Mary feel sympathy for Edith and treat her better than Edith treated her? When Mary does what Edith did, why does that make her the bitch?

 

Others have added that Mary got back Edith more than once for the Pamuk situation, but I will also add that Pamuk's boudoir death was fully 10 years ago. Both daughters were still teenagers at that point. Still hideous behavior but Edith seems to be the only one who has grown out of backstabbing. Mary didn't just fling petty barbs across a dinner table or living room, she dropped a nuclear bomb. I'm very sorry that Mary escaped getting yelled at by her parents and aunt, because they all looked livid and Rosamund in particular was looking daggers.

[shipperx]

That's what I keep thinking. The Pamuk scenes were when they were in their teens. Horrid behavior? Yes. But teen behavior. And it had no lasting consequences. The suitor Mary had at the time (Evelyn Napier) found out and didn't care. Matthew was eventually told and it was never an impediment in that relationship. Mary was never socially shunned and the entire incident is ancient history that never had actual consequences of a substantial negative nature. To still be carrying that around 10 years later? I'm sorry, but to quote Buffy and Angel's Cordelia Chase: 'Spank your inner moppet, whatever, but get over it'.

Mary is not an angry 17 year old. She's seen a world war, watched her sister tragically die far, far too young. Had her own husband die far too young. Is a mother. She also got her 'revenge' on Edith in 1914! By fabricating something out of thin air and lying to Strallen (in a way of that hurt Strallen's feelings) so that he'd leave Edith hanging. Which he did. Mary scored a direct hit and sank the battleship.

Since then Edith has been publically humiliated and left at the altar AND had a fiancé die (with Mary upstaginging his death announcement with her haircut)

Mary is a 30-something adult and mother and she's being compared to an angry 17 year old child. That right there tells you all you need to know about Mary's emotional landscape.

I was never a Brary, and I'm so glad Tom isn't hooked up with Mary. He deserves better. Sybil was so much better. I honestly don't care if Talbot is ho-hum. I wouldn't want her with someone I liked.

Edited November 10, 2015 by shipperx

[sark1624]

In the subject of the Pamuk incident, at least Edith she didnt deny her actions to Mary, in this episode Mary was trying to play the innocent card but neither Tom or Edith believe her. In fact Mary knew very well what she was doing:

-She wait that Robert went out to write some letters.

-She saw the doubt on Edith face when Bertie wanted to made the annoucement.

-When she realises the reasons of the doubt in Edith, she start teasing Edith and waited to shoot back with the info about Marigold.

 

But in the end i feel most sorry for Mary´s fans because the majority didnt want this kind of plot in order to resolve her romantic life. 

 

And the only thing that keep me calm was the dignity that Edith showed in all this, she didnt scream or cried hysterically, she accepted her responsability and apologised to Bertie; and later she went to work and she continued with her life. Mary in the other hand cried, scream, was nasty to all in the family, and finally all of them have to be behind her to do the most minimal task. And in the end Edith have the grace to come and congratulate Mary in the day of her wedding, that action speak tons of what sister has the upper hand in therm of good values.

 

In the end, the conclusion is that with the evolution of the characters Edith is the strong sister who soldiers things on life and for that reason she is that the sister who smiles to Sybil´s grave.

[Nellie]

Can someone please explain to me how a marriage between Mary and Henry would work? One of them would have to give up something they love, unless they live apart right?? Boy, what a ridiculous conclusion to an even more ridiculous "love" story?

I truly hated this ending. I would've preferred Charles Blake or Lord Gillingham coming back over this rubbish. I would've preferred Evelyn Napier even. Sigh, oh well.

I still can't get over how badly Tom's character was neutered this season.

Edited November 9, 2015 by Nellie

[ZoloftBlob]

But in the end i feel most sorry for Mary´s fans because the majority didnt want this kind of plot in order to resolve her romantic life.

 

I will have a lengthier post when I am not at work but basically.... for someone happily in love, Mary didn't exactly seem that happy. And that's where I find this kind of sad.

[ElizaD]

Others have added that Mary got back Edith more than once for the Pamuk situation, but I will also add that Pamuk's boudoir death was fully 10 years ago. Both daughters were still teenagers at that point. Still hideous behavior but Edith seems to be the only one who has grown out of backstabbing. Mary didn't just fling petty barbs across a dinner table or living room, she dropped a nuclear bomb.

 

Edith said she was born in 1892, so she was 20 and Mary at least 21 when the series started. Mary spent years living with the consequences of the Pamuk incident, feeling she wasn't good enough for Matthew and spending time being blackmailed by Richard. Edith, on the other hand, escaped without even a private stain on her reputation; no one in the family shamed her like Mary was shamed over Pamuk and now Marigold. As for Strallan, Mary scared off one man with something that could easily be fixed by Edith telling him the truth but she only made a move after Edith had attempted her own nuke with far wider implications for Mary's prospects, and indeed new money Richard was the best Mary could get after she'd dismissed Evelyn as a friend and lost Matthew by dithering. And I don't think Edith has grown out of anything, or she wouldn't be continuing her old song and dance of gloating and looking hurt when Mary strikes back. This really was a disappointing episode to me since the passing of time had allowed the memory of Edith's nastiness to fade away, but the hypocrisy brought it all back; I don't think it's worse to deny what you intended in the heat of the moment than to coldly and deliberately execute a plan to shame your sister so that she's ostracized in your social circle. I believe that if a character doesn't feel sorry, doesn't try to make amends, then the passing of time doesn't mean they grew out of their nasty behavior but that there's no moral feeling inside them that will move them to apologize if there's no external pressure (in the same way, I understand why Bates doesn't like Thomas - Thomas may now be capable of being nice to people like Andy and Baxter but he's never regretted how he treated Bates). Edith escaped that external pressure since the family never found out and so she never felt shame over her conduct, not even after she found herself in a situation where the revelation of her sexual past could cost her a husband. That she forgets the Pamuk letter ever happened doesn't make her more mature, rather she's incapable of mature reflection on her own mistakes. While Mary/Henry turned out to be dull, it's even sadder that this finale revived my season 1 dislike of Edith. A dull finale would be better than one that makes me angry with characters I've watched for six seasons.

[DeccaMitford]

I don't remember Edith doing any "gloating", unless daring to be happy in front of Mary counts as gloating. A lot of what I see in defenses of Mary boils down to "she wouldn't have to be mean if Edith didn't make herself such a good target by breathing/being so annoying/having emotions where people can see her" which might be true, but it's also how literally every bully in the world justifies what they do. Picking your targets well might be a skill, but it's a skill that makes me like Mary less, not more (and I do like her).

 

As for the Pamuk thing keeping Mary and Matthew apart, Edith had nothing to do with that. She spread the story around, which she shouldn't have done, but Mary was reluctant to take Matthew partly because he might not be heir anymore, and partly because she was ashamed of the Pamuk incident and didn't want to marry Matthew without telling him. That would have been the case even if Edith didn't exist.

 

Honestly, I think discussing the Mary/Edith dynamic is fruitless in a lot of ways, since all of our interpretations of it are likely strongly influenced by our own family histories and dynamics, and where we ourselves fall in them, and no one will ever convince anyone else.

Edited November 9, 2015 by DeccaMitford

[photo fox]

Hey, everybody,

Just a quick reminder to keep this thread spoiler-free about the Christmas special. Preferably speculation-free as well, as it's hard to not spoil when you've seen spoilers, even if you're doing your best not to. And I know you are all doing your best! :)
 

Speculation WITH spoilers (UK)

Speculation WITHOUT spoilers (UK)

[Kostgard]

 

When she tried to compare Bertie and Henry and basically saying that Henry, the guy she's been rejecting, is hot but Bertie is a troll, I was like good lord, you can't refrain from insulting your sister's boyfriend even when she's not there to hear it!

 

I know! And she did it twice! Not only was she all, "My would-be husband is totally hotter than Edith's would-be husband!" but also when the DC came to see her, she was all, "Granny, can't you find me a duke? That would put Edith in her place!" Dude! Edith DOES NOT CARE about outranking you. She fell for Bertie when he was just an agent. But she's always got to win over Edith. ALWAYS. She cannot stand it when it appears that Edith is winning. Every time the family was praising Edith for something over the past season or two, they would always cut back to Mary, sitting there either in shock that people are supporting Edith or sitting there sucking on a lemon because Edith isn't being made to kick rocks.

 

I like Mary. I like her a lot. But she is absolutely awful to her sister and always has been. Tom was right - she bullies her. And she always has to feel superior to her at all times. Yes, Edith punched back every now and again and even punched below the belt on occasion (revealing the Pamuk situation), but what she has done pales in comparison to what Mary has done to her. And yet, Edith is always the one who extends the olive branch, usually just to have it slapped away. I mean, honestly - if the roles were reversed in this episode (Edith got to marry Bertie, Edith dropped a bomb in Henry's lap that drove him away from Mary), does anyone think Mary would have shown up at Edith's wedding anyway? Telling her that she came because at the end of the day they are sisters, and that is important, and by the way, you look lovely? Hell, no. Mary would never have done that. She either would have skipped the wedding or she would have shown up at the last minute in a way to totally steal her sister's thunder. 

 

Mary is capable of extraordinary kindness. But she must also be Queen Bee at all times. As such, her greatest kindness is extended to those who would never come close to outranking her (Anna and Tom). Edith always was a potential threat to her Queen Bee status (if Edith just had the self-confidence) so she always makes sure to keep stomping on her so she can never reach her level. Again, I really like Mary, but when it comes to the battle of the sisters, Team Edith.

 

On the Mary/Henry front - I'm with those scratching their heads when Mary told him she didn't know why she was holding back when she had just confessed to the DC that she didn't want to be a car crash widow again. Wouldn't it be more emotional and moving if she had confessed her fears to him, but decided that she loved him enough that she was willing to take that risk? Yet another reason why that relationship is unsatisfying. 

 

 

I was one of those who predicted that Violet would sail off into the sunset and she wouldn't come back. I mean, why else have her dramatically sneak away and take a trip without telling anyone she was going, leaving behind moving gifts for people she loved? But I forgot that this is Fellowes and stuff happens for no reason then suddenly it's over and it means/changes nothing.

 

 

On a totally nerd-related note - the casting on this show was good in that Mary looked like she took after Cora in her looks and Edith looked like she took after Robert's side of the family, but it's always mildly driven me nuts that both sisters have brown/hazel eyes while both parents have blue eyes. That's next to genetically impossible (it's not impossible, but both Robert and Cora would have had to have had the same defect on their "blue eye" genes to allow a brown eye gene that was lurking in the background to come forward - extremely rare thing to happen). Stupid, I know, and nothing a casting director should ever worry about. But it's just one of those weird things I always notice.

Edited November 9, 2015 by Kostgard

[minamurray78]

I think the whole thing is just pure bad writing: the writers couldn't commit to making Mary a 100% villain, like, just waltzing up to Bertie without any provocation and telling him the secret before Edith accepted his proposal. 'Cause that would have been even more impossible to come back from.

So instead, they orchestrated this whole scenario where everyone is badgering Mary to marry this guy which they all said was not her type up until two minutes ago (except for Tom, the only one who's been consistently supportive of this relationship to the point of creepyness), but now apparently is "clear to everyone she's mad about him" ???? Well, I failed to see that. Was there attraction, maybe even some sparks? Sure, ok, but being "mad" about him?

And then that inexplicable reaction of Mary's at breakfast, being so upset after Henry leaves. I know that most people just chalk it up to Mary being a spoiled brat, but it makes no sense: they had a horrible blow out in the staircase the night before, not to mention earlier, when he was all "if you want to get rid of me, I'll make it as hard and horrible as possible". The hell is that? Mary should have packed her bags and leave the house. How come two people having this conversation ended up married by the end of the episode?

 

What kind of fucked-up dysfunctional relationships have the writers had in their lifes to come up with this crap? Probably from the same people who created "Well Matthew was great, but he's dead and I'm alive, marry me!".

 

But it all had to come around to that scene at breakfast, where Mary spills the beans to Bertie about Marigold. Except that even Edith feels responsible herself for trying to "trick him" (her own words!) and she also blames it on Mary being unhappy about Henry... None of this felt right.
That confrontation should have come up a few episodes before, make it a really serious affair, rather than making a half hearted attempt, where everyone, even Edith is already making excuses for Mary's behaviour, and it all fizzles out by the end of the episode, with one big happy wedding. Damn, both Rosamund and Cora wanted to tell Bertie the secret (Cora told Rosamund she was itching to do so in that scene in her bedroom before the dinner, right before Mary walked in).
But the writers tried to force the events to have a specific outcome, rather than writing consistently, more realistic situations and reactions. It all came out forced, rushed and with people acting OOC.

 

And if the writers were really interested in giving their heroine some character growth by the end of the show, they should have let Mary realize the things Edith told her: that they are sisters, and in the end they'll be the only two to remember all the things and all the people they loved that are already gone, and that is why she needs to change her attitude towards her. I always wanted the two of them to end up in good terms, and with an honest change of heart from Mary’s part. The feud was entertaining at first, when they were young, but not anymore, after all the family’s been through.
But instead, it went like, yes, Mary knows she's wrong but she doesn't even know why she "can't help herself" where Edith is concerned, blah blah, and it's just bullshit and sad.

 

I guess when you look at how they handled Thomas' suicide storyline, it's obvious they don't know how to write a realistic conflictive character's turnaround.

 

Just bad, bad, horrible writing.

 

It's also quite unbelievable that no one made the connection between Matthew's deadly car accident and Talbot's career. They were all "Oh Mary, so contrary, oh Mary what a snob, oh just give into the love, what are you scared of?" Really? It didn't occur to anybody, not even after the fiery accident where Henry's friend dies how that would be a problem for Mary? If Tom were to remarry, and his new wife became pregnant, wouldn't he be a nervous breck around her due date? Those were fairly traumatic ways to lose a spouse. Oh, but that was all solved by fedexing Violet back from France for a three minutes conversation that somehow was enough to placate Mary's valid fears about the matter. Ok.

 

Ugh ugh ugh. Although there were a few things I like in the episode, but I’d rather write them in a different post later.

Edited November 9, 2015 by minamurray78

[wlk68]

I don't remember Edith doing any "gloating", unless daring to be happy in front of Mary counts as gloating. A lot of what I see in defenses of Mary boils down to "she wouldn't have to be mean if Edith didn't make herself such a good target by breathing/being so annoying/having emotions where people can see her" which might be true, but it's also how literally every bully in the world justifies what they do. Picking your targets well might be a skill, but it's a skill that makes me like Mary less, not more (and I do like her).

 

 

I agree with this. And as far back as Sybil's death, Edith extended an olive branch to Mary and said 'We're all that's left, we should try to be nicer to each other' and Mary basically said 'Yeah, that's probably not going to happen'.

[shipperx]

As for the Pamuk thing keeping Mary and Matthew apart, Edith had nothing to do with that. She spread the story around, which she shouldn't have done, but Mary was reluctant to take Matthew partly because he might not be heir anymore, and partly because she was ashamed of the Pamuk incident and didn't want to marry Matthew without telling him. That would have been the case even if Edith didn't exist.

Exactly. I think Edith gets blameshifted. Edith had nothing at all to do with Matthew and Mary's being apart. Matthew never heard about the Pamuk situation via any rumor scandal. And that was after a significant amount of time proving a) just how little it ever 'got out' to begin with and b) meaning that Edith had nothing whatsoever to do with keeping Mathew and Mary apart. He didn't know the scandal. Mary was reluctant to confess that she wasn't a virgin. Edith had nothing to do with Mary losing her virginity. Lost virginity was a fact regardless. Mary was going to have to tell Matthew (and would have been reluctant to tell even if Edith had never written the letter that a) Matthew never heard about anyway which b) means the resultant 'scandal' post letter was so tempest in a teacup that someone as close to the family as Matthew never even heard about it. What kept Matthew and Mary apart for the longest period of time was pride-- Mary in hesitating to say yes when Matthew as heir fell into doubt (as fortold by Violet who said if Mary turned him down when he might be poor would mean he might not want her when he could be rich) and Matthew's pride which was stung because of exactly what Violet had predicted. So Edith had nothing to do with keeping Matthew and Mary apart. What Edith did was childish and vindictive but it netted virtually nothing in results.

And I can't say how big of a person Edith must be to wish Mary well because Mary never would have done the same had circumstances been reversed in the finale. And given the tone of the show, Mary would never have been in the reverse position because once a guy falls for Mary he always takes her back (usually dumping another woman in the process). ...except for Blake who went to Poland, which retroactively makes me like Blake a whole lot more)

[Ravenya003]

Wow, this was a mess. Thing is, I like Mary - not necessarily as a person, but as a character. I like that Fellowes is brave enough to have a female character who is sometimes a terrible person. 

 

But it's the second to last episode for god's sake. After an entire season of Mary gradually becoming a warmer person (though learning more about Sybil, helping Anna with her pregnancy, occasionally reaching out to her sister) why would you blow all that out of the water now? I was honestly holding my breath at both the dinner table scenes, out of fear for Edith and confusion over who the hell had replaced Mary with a bitch-bot. 

 

The subsequent verbal smackdowns that Tom and Edith gave her were well-deserved, but I'm not sure either one of them hit home. I never saw any sickening guilt of the "oh my God, what have I done?" variety on Mary's face. This should have harrowed her soul, not been a mild inconvenience. I'm not sure Fellowes realizes quite what he's made Mary do, as by the end of the episode she was galloping away into her happy ending with Tom and Edith's blessing. Whhhaaaaaat?

 

And it doesn't even make sense on a writing level! After everyone and their grandmother (literally!) hectoring Mary to get together with Talbot she finally snaps and yells the (blatantly obvious) reason as to why she can't be with him: she wouldn't be able to stand the worry of his driving hobby, and she couldn't ask him to give it up either. And this is never resolved. After pointing this out, the narrative just shrugs it's shoulders and skips to the wedding. That is not how conflict and resolution works.

 

So what the heck's gonna happen? She'll just be magically cured of her terror at his racing, or he'll give it up and magically not resent her for it? We're never given an answer!

 

I like both Edith AND Mary. They're both decent people, they just bring out the absolute worst in each other. And at this stage, Mary is the one who needs to redeem herself for doing something bloody awful, so if the CS doesn't have her being pivotal in Edith and Bertie's reunion ... well, it's practically a write-off of her entire character and six seasons of supposed character development. 

[Cherpumple]

Am I really supposed to feel sorry that Edith's own scheming to make Bertie raise Marigold without telling him the truth, and thus potentially making him vulnerable to scandal, was foiled?

I disagree that Edith was 'scheming' to make Bertie raise Marigold under a lie. From what we saw, she never officially accepted his proposal (he just took her 'I love you' as a 'yes') and she certainly didn't want an announcement about it yet, so at the point when Mary outed her, she had not actually decided how she would handle the situation. Maybe she should have told him sooner, but given the very short timelines of these courtships, there weren't many opportunities. Before his proposal it really wasn't any of his business, and afterwards she spent all of her time thinking about what to say to him, and was clearly conflicted about the situation and how it would affect all three of them. Far from scheming, she was just trying to pick the least damaging option to all involved.

[hafo]

Agree with Ravenya003 on all points. Really disappointing writing.

 

Maybe some of this could have happened earlier in the series but I don't think it works as a finale.

Edited November 9, 2015 by hafo

[RedWolf]

No, Robert all our ships are not coming into port. They are sinking like the Titanic. My heart jumped when Tom said "Because I love you" and then that whole episode just went downhill from there. Violet how could you let me down? The only bits I liked were Mosley's scenes, when Master George visited Mr. Barrow with Mary, and when Mary went to Matthew's grave (Could totally use that scene in a Brary fic as she never says Talbots name).

 

The sad thing is IMO Mary had more emotionally poignant scenes and chemistry with everyone but Talbot. Talbot's scenes with Mary were pretty creepy with and without sound. I felt for him last episode. I hate him this episode and not just because I ship Brary. He was creepy, demanding, and wouldn't take no for an answer. That whole proposal scene between Talbot and Mary was so cold, the only thing I felt was my Brary heart being ripped out and stomped on. Where was the romance? Where was the passion and heat? Talbot really does remind me of Richard Carlisle (Carlysle?) except Carlisle was able to control Mary to an extent and Talbot needed Tom (and the whole Crawley family) to help him get Mary down the aisle. They only went on four dates together over a period of 4-6 months. Do they even really know each other? I just hope that when PBS airs it they add scenes that make it a little more believable or I don't know how any of the ardent fans over there are going to swallow this rushed catastrophe.

 

Tom and Mary's scenes looked like an old married couple (especially without sound), even when they were fighting.

 

Julian Fellowes really is the worst writer in the whole universe. I can't believe he did that to his (favorite?) character. I thought I read somewhere that he knew since the beginning of series 5 that he would need another series to conclude all the storylines and this is what he comes up with? I have read better Fan-fiction than this. I want to eject him out the airlock but I don't have a space ship. He destroyed any character development Mary had over the past six series and gave Tom no Storyline outside of Mary. Then he has everyone who in previous episodes were going on about how Talbot and Mary don't go together, in this episode are now saying how perfect they are for each other.  IMO that was not a happy ending no matter how you try to spin it.

 

He didn't even dwell long enough on Barrow's suicide attempt.

 

My head canon is that everyone was brainwashed by Aliens (Talbot being the Alien) Mary tried to resist the brainwashing, which is why she lashed out at everyone because her head was killing her with how much it hurt, but by the end of the episode she gave up.

 

This was one of the worst finales I have ever seen in my whole life. I can't believe I thought JF was better than this. The only thing I am grateful to JF for is all the Tom and Mary scenes the lovely fan fiction writers can use to jump off from this series and leading me to you lovely posters. Other than that JF can go jump in a big pile of shaving cream for all I care.

 

I bet I could write a better ending.

Edited November 9, 2015 by RedWolf

[Llywela]

 

 Talbot's scenes with Mary were pretty creepy with and without sound. I felt for him last episode. I hate him this episode and not just because I ship Brary. He was creepy, demanding, and wouldn't take no for an answer. That whole proposal scene between Talbot and Mary was so cold, the only thing I felt was my Brary heart being ripped out and stomped on. Where was the romance? Where was the passion and heat? Talbot really does remind me of Richard Carlisle (Carlysle?) except Carlisle was able to control Mary to an extent and Talbot needed Tom (and the whole Crawley family) to help him get Mary down the aisle. They only went on four dates together over a period of 4-6 months. Do they even really know each other?

Yes. This. What sort of a man rushes out and gets a special marriage license when paying a visit to a woman who just dumped him after only a handful of dates? A visit made at the invitation of her brother-in-law, not her - against her express wishes, in fact. I found that creepy, not romantic.

Edited November 9, 2015 by Llywela

[Andorra]

I wonder what kind of contract Matthew Goode had for Downton? It was so weird that Tom did all the courting and Matthew Goode only phoned in one scene per episode! He also didn't do any promotion even though he was listed among the main cast, 

He moved back to England in April and his wife got another Baby during the time they filmed Downton. I'm not sure he did himself a service though with his performance for Downton. 

[minamurray78]

Yes. This. What sort of a man rushes out and gets a special marriage license when paying a visit to a woman who just dumped him after only a handful of dates? A visit made at the invitation of her brother-in-law, not her - against her express wishes, in fact. I found that creepy, not romantic.

Oh god, I had forgotten about that.  I must've been making too many strangled noises to pay proper attention to what was being said. A marriage license out of thin air, jesus, how desperate were the writers?

 

A funny thing, was when back at the library with Mary about to make peace with Talbot, and, you guessed it, Tom is also there  (?), Henry goes "You don't have to leave Tom" (??), and finally Tom ackowledges it "Believe me, I've been part of this courtship for quite long enough. Is for you to manage from here." Well, I'll say! What else is Tom got left to do ? Tag along on their honey moon? Which I'm sure Talbot wouldn't have minded, geez

Edited November 9, 2015 by minamurray78

[DeccaMitford]

You know, it's a funny thing. I think Fellowes has a very...retrograde idea of what's romantic. I suppose we're meant to see it is as indicative of Talbot's passion, that he won't let go of the woman he loves and keeps fighting for her, etc., but in effect it comes off as pushy and creepy. And there was the implication that Mary can't be trusted to know her own mind and what she really needs is a man who will stand up to her, which is pretty sexist.

 

I was watching some of the second season recently, and there are elements of this weird pushiness in Tom's courtship of Sybil, what with him insisting to her that she's really in love with him when she wasn't sure, only for him to be proven right. Right up until the "don't disappoint me, Sybil" line in season three, which I've always found mildly unsettling. The way that love story was written bugged me at the time, but I think Fellowes got away with the problems there because 1) Alan Leech is a pretty warm, appealing actor (Matthew Goode can be quite good, but he was sleepwalking here, and I've never seen anything where he didn't seem like a cold fish); 2) Alan Leech and Jessica Brown-Findlay had a believably nice chemistry that covered up the gaps in the writing; and 3) nobody was colluding in pushing Sybil into Tom's arms while she figured out what she wanted to do, so when she finally agreed with him that she loved him, it did seem like a choice on her part rather than her just catching up to the script everybody else had already written for her.

Edited November 9, 2015 by DeccaMitford

[RedWolf]

One of my favorite Brary scenes this episode was when Tom and Mary come out of the shop. They went shopping. together. How much more like a couple can you get.

[minamurray78]

One of my favorite Brary scenes this episode was when Tom and Mary come out of the shop. They went shopping. together. How much more like a couple can you get.

Lol yes! And then she sent him back to buy the newspaper. You just know even though she's married, Talbot will stay back at the abbey with his cars, and Tom and Mary will keep on traipsing all over Ripon.

[RedWolf]

I am wondering how they let those scenes between Mary and Talbot be filmed and edited that way? Are they all blinded by JF's "genius" or do they all just think it was romantic? 

 

I just realized Talbot has three things working against him being alive longer than a year. (not that I want him dead, just away from Mary)

 

1. Tom being his best man

 

2. CARS

 

3. Being married to Mary and all that entails.

Edited November 9, 2015 by RedWolf

[Dianaofthehunt]

I'm disappointed in Bertie leaving the house suddenly upon grokking the Marigold news, like a stunned penguin. He'd better not turn out to be a mama's boy; I HATE mama's boys! If he doesn't show up for the Xmas Special to beg for Edith's forgiveness/hand, I'll be mad. I thought he was made of stronger stuff.

I'm also disappointed in Edith, for not telling him upfront about Marigold. She had plenty of opportunity.

Where will Mary and Henry live? At Downton? Then Henry's going to need a valet, yes? There you are, Thomas.

Predictions for the special:

 

Bertie returns/Edith and Bertie wedding.

Thomas promotion.

Molesley leaves service for full-time teaching. Andrew now very busy and can't help at the pig farm.

Dowager Countess makes it up with the Crawleys and leaves for France again.

Isabel and Lord Merton agree not to marry; Isabel and Dr. Clarkson agree to have "an agreement."

and my greatest wish:

Tom and Vivacious Lady Editor hit it off and Do Something About It.

[ZoloftBlob]

I am wondering how they let those scenes between Mary and Talbot be filmed and edited that way? Are they all blinded by JF's "genius" or do they all just think it was romantic?

 

Actually I've always had the impression that JF doesn't like the actors winging it or changing a scrap of diologue.

[Hecate7]

It would be nice if Mary or Edith remembered that in the Pamuk situation, Edith's response was to call Mary a slut and deliberately set out to shame her and ruin her marriage prospects. Has everyone completely forgotten about that? Why should Mary feel sympathy for Edith and treat her better than Edith treated her? When Mary does what Edith did, why does that make her the bitch?

 

Edith has never expressed any remorse, so she's fine with public shaming and relationships being ruined due to extramarital affairs; she shouldn't act like it somehow becomes tragic now that it's happening to her instead of being something she can do to Mary. At least Mary sent Carson out of the room and didn't start gossiping with her London friends about Marigold when she could have copied the Pamuk letter situation to hurt Edith on the same wider level that Edith wanted to hurt her. Am I really supposed to feel sorry that Edith's own scheming to make Bertie raise Marigold without telling him the truth, and thus potentially making him vulnerable to scandal, was foiled? Right after Edith talked about Henry abandoning Mary and acted like the engagement was all about beating Mary and making her feel bad? She should have told Bertie herself, like Mary told Matthew and Carlisle about Pamuk ten years ago when that scandal was still around. Now Edith's spiteful wish to humiliate Mary ended up hurting her instead, just like in season 1. Edith starts a fight and somehow she's the victim? It's clear that she's never going to learn: she'll just keep on being nasty in her poor-me way and looking shocked when Mary (or someone else with a spine) won't let her get away with it. It's not Mary's fault that Edith didn't trust Bertie and can't ever admit that she did something questionable when it's so much easier to call Mary a slut or a bitch than to take responsibility for her own actions.

 

This is the SECOND TIME Mary has destroyed Edith's chance of a marriage to someone. And she never expressed any remorse or apologized for the Strallam incident at all. It was considered fair because of the letter Edith wrote about Pamuk. So, Mary already got her revenge years ago. I don't remember anybody saying that Edith was doing the right and moral thing exposing Mary's secret shame, so why is Mary a hero for exposing Edith's? I don't get it. I also don't get why Mary being unhappy makes her disgusting behavior towards her sister all these years ok. Edith being unhappy hasn't ever struck anyone as a reason to feel sorry for her. Mary is simply an awful person. Edith keeps wanting to be her friend and all she has to offer, all she has EVER had to offer another woman, is rejection, humiliation, and nastiness. She has never tried, even once, to be nice to Edith. And she is usually the one who starts the fights, not Edith. It's just dreadful all the way around.

Edited November 10, 2015 by Hecate7

[RedWolf]

Actually I've always had the impression that JF doesn't like the actors winging it or changing a scrap of diologue.

And here I was thinking that some of the blame would fall on the executive producers and editing crew. Actually IMO the actors were splendid with the dialogue they were given it was the storyline that was shaving cream.

[jadecorleone]

Actually I've always had the impression that JF doesn't like the actors winging it or changing a scrap of diologue.

Im pretty sure that I read that somewhere as well. With JF being the only writer on the show, I can imagine he wants it the way he wants it and nothing else. Though I think the show would have really benefited from having more than one.

[SusanSunflower]

JF -- not a fan of improvisation ... not at all 

http://video.pbs.org/video/2169587369/

[Starchild]

Are we sure Fellowes believes that Mary is the hero of the show? That's a strange way for a hero to be portrayed. Could it be a joke on the viewers?

[Free]

Are we sure Fellowes believes that Mary is the hero of the show? That's a strange way for a hero to be portrayed. Could it be a joke on the viewers?

 

He does, that's why he twists everything around for her like in this episode alone that had a very rushed climax and ending.

 

For some reason he amped up Mary's character in the last episode moreso than usual which makes it even more obnoxious for her character.

 

I don't see that changing with the CS tbh.

Edited November 10, 2015 by Free

[Avaleigh]

Based on the description in this episode, I want to meet Bertie's mother. I wan her in a room with Violet and Isobel. 

 

I also think that Robert got one of the funniest lines when he said that Edith couldn't even get her dolls to do what she wanted when she was growing up. 

I would say because once Mary ruined Edith's first chance with Sir Anthony Strallan, to a certain extent they were even. Edith ruined her life, Mary ruined hers, everyone go back to their corners. For Edith to have earned this at this point, Edith would have needed to have dropped the bomb on Matthew that Mary was lying about being a virgin... but that never happened.

I didn't feel they were even at all. JMO. Mary messed up one chance for Edith with a lie that was easy for Edith to fix (and she did indeed fix it in one conversation; he believed Edith without question) whereas Edith tried to sabotage Mary's chances permanently in addition to having no care for her revenge damaging Sybil's prospects or the family in general. Edith was as spiteful as can be when called on it and, as ElizaD pointed out, Mary never told anyone about Edith's role or Edith telling Mary what she really thinks of her. It's not like their rivalry ended in season one on Edith's end. There's evidence of Edith snarking on her sister in every season including this one. Edith couldn't wait to ask Mary in front of everyone what she'd be doing with herself once Tom returned. She wanted to irritate Mary and did so as usual because she knows what buttons to push. In this episode she couldn't just be happy with the fact that she was winning she had to point out to everyone that she's in a better position than Mary and that Mary simply can't stand it. She also had to go out of her way to embarrass Mary even more by saying that Mary was lying about how she supposedly wanted Henry to go when Mary was obviously just trying to save face. It was all perfectly true but also bitchy and unnecessary and it did seem like she was gloating. Edith is bitter too when Mary seems like she's happy. Her snide reference to Mary's "oily" boyfriend and Tom asking her why she can't be happy for Mary--It totally goes both ways with the sisters from what I've seen. Edith frankly admits this earlier in the season when she talks about how she's as happy for Mary as Mary would be for her. They both give it to each other.  

 

Edith was happy to see how pained Mary was when she heard that Matthew was engaged. When Mary and Matthew married, Edith couldn't hide the bitterness. With the Tony Gillingham affair it seemed the same in that she seemed happy to be the one to bring up Tony's engagement because she knew it would hurt Mary. When Mary had sex week it was Edith who slyly tried to draw attention to what the sketching trip was really all about. 

 

This is the SECOND TIME Mary has destroyed Edith's chance of a marriage to someone. And she never expressed any remorse or apologized for the Strallam incident at all. It was considered fair because of the letter Edith wrote about Pamuk. So, Mary already got her revenge years ago. I don't remember anybody saying that Edith was doing the right and moral thing exposing Mary's secret shame, so why is Mary a hero for exposing Edith's? I don't get it. I also don't get why Mary being unhappy makes her disgusting behavior towards her sister all these years ok. Edith being unhappy hasn't ever struck anyone as a reason to feel sorry for her. Mary is simply an awful person. Edith keeps wanting to be her friend and all she has to offer, all she has EVER had to offer another woman, is rejection, humiliation, and nastiness. She has never tried, even once, to be nice to Edith. And she is usually the one who starts the fights, not Edith. It's just dreadful all the way around.

In the series as a whole it's Edith who is often the instigator when it comes to their petty quarreling.

 

That being said I feel that Edith has grown up a lot finally. For one thing I don't think she blames Mary for Bertie. I think she knows that the bigger problem is the fact that she didn't tell him even after she accepted his proposal. That's what it came down to. Bertie can see through Mary. He isn't going to let Mary destroy their relationship. His disappointment was with Edith and I think Edith recognized this. I feel like season three Edith would have practically jumped across the table to get at Mary and she wouldn't have looked to herself for a moment. 

 

I also thought Edith's scene alone with Mary made up for the way she was when Mary married Matthew. Again, Edith has grown up a lot and I thought she was moving when she talked about why their sisterly bond is still important. I only hope that Mary will be able to get to this place in the CS. 

[Free]

I don't think I will need to watch the CS now. I cannot believe how hurried and unbelievable this ending was. Why didn't they focus more on Mary's relationship with Henry this series so that when they decided to get married at the last minute... We would actually give a damn and not be shaking our heads in disbelief?? This may go rank right up there with HIMYM as one of the worst finales ever.... Irregardless of what happens in the CS.

Poor, poor Tom.

 

So many character obnoxiously OOC, pushing Mary throughout the episode just so they can have the rushed wedding.

[ZoloftBlob]

Mary messed up one chance for Edith with a lie that was easy for Edith to fix (and she did indeed fix it in one conversation; he believed Edith without question) whereas Edith tried to sabotage Mary's chances permanently in addition to having no care for her revenge damaging Sybil's prospects or the family in general.

 

Ah, but Mary also snidely believed Edith had little to no chance at all of finding a man so scotching the one relationship she'd managed to scrape up was pretty cruel.

 

And I am pretty sure outing Marigold as a bastard child has effectively ruined *Marigold's* chances of upper class marriage. What did Marigold do to Mary to deserve that?

 

The funny thing is that Edith could have at least tried to screw Mary over. I mean, sure Henry Talbot was ready to marry Mary... but did *he* know about Kemal Pamuk? Did he know Mary's idea of a "sketching vacation" involves fucking unmarried men? (and funny how Mary's honor didn't demand she tell Henry about these transgressions)

 

Don't get me wrong, Edith has her bitch moments, but the Pamuk thing ultimately went no where and Mary learned that lesson so well, she managed to get blackmailed *again*. Whereas Mary's little fit in the last episode pretty much guaranteed Marigold's public shaming. Edith and Mary blaming their bitchy ugly games is fine as long as no one else is getting hurt. That kind of revelation in that time would have ruined a child's future. That's dirty pool on Mary.

[Lived In Inch]

I find the row between Mary and Branson very one sided. One scene they are hurling insults at one another, the next scene he is still playing cupid. To top it all off, he stands Best Man at the Talbot wedding. She still hasn't apologized, or maybe she did but I just don't believe her.