S04.E14: Code Of Silence

[ah-maa-zing]

I also think by having MM reveal to OQ that he knows about his son, it permanently set OQ up to look like a fool. Remove the MM knowing about the secret & perhaps some of MG's philosophy on secret keeping might be able to stay a float. But right now the plot is drowning in TPTB's stupidity & stubbornness. What had the potential to be about the characters & their growth development has now become about plot & therefore easier to handwave.

 

They could have had Malcolm give Oliver the "what would YOU do if you were in my position?" speech last week but NOT have him make mention of William - thereby making Oliver (and us) think he was merely speaking in hypotheticals. Then, we find out at the end of the episode that Malcolm "I am Ra's al Ghul" actually does know about William, which creates a twist in the final moments of the ep but Oliver still has no idea...and then in this episode have Thea do as you suggested and advise Oliver to tell at least Felicity about it, which he prepares to do; and then we get the scene of Darhk having kidnapped William. Boom, done. 

 

That way, you'd have Malcolm being Malcolm but it would take away the audience fatigue (the second he told Oliver he knew about William we knew what he was going to do), amp up the tension at the end of the episodes and not have the characters jump through the writers' hoops. Alas. 

[KirkB]

I was jokingly thinking that perhaps the reason Thea seems to have forgotten about the problems she has with lying is because one of the falling anvils clipped her on the way down and she got amnesia. But I think it's really more internal. Thea doesn't necessarily have an issue with hiding stuff, she was really upset back in the day that Oliver and Moira were hiding stuff from HER.

[Chaser]

If DD can kill through a television screen, why didn't he just kill Oliver during the debate? It was live tv.

[apinknightmare]

If DD can kill through a television screen, why didn't he just kill Oliver during the debate? It was live tv.

 

It's completely stupid, but from the in-show explanation, it seems like he has to have been in that place before so he's able to really visualize his surroundings or something. 

[tv echo]

Are we assuming that Malcolm hasn't told Darhk that Oliver is the Green Arrow?  If so, then why hasn't he?  

 

Malcolm knows the real identities of every member of Team Arrow as well as the location of their 'secret' Arrowcave.  I can see him hiding Thea's identity and the Arrowcave location to protect her, but why hide Oliver's identity?  It won't increase the risk to Thea since she's already at risk as Oliver Queen's sister.

Edited February 19, 2016 by tv echo

[looptab]

Okay, this has been noticed by quite a few, so I guess it's worth discussing. Laurel's weird exit after Felicity reminiscing when she first met Oliver: was that weirdness scripted, like Laurel feels awkward/uncomfortable  about it/them, or it was  just KC giving a weird performance as usual? 

Edited February 19, 2016 by looptab

[Midnight Lullaby]

Are we assuming that Malcolm hasn't told Darhk that Oliver is the Green Arrow? If so, then why hasn't he?

Malcolm knows the real identities of every member of Team Arrow as well as the location of their 'secret' Arrowcave. I can see him hiding Thea's identity and the Arrowcave location to protect her, but why hide Oliver's identity? It won't increase the risk to Thea since she's already at risk as Oliver Queen's sister.

I think Malcolm might be withholding informations because it's convenient for him to do so. This way he still has leverage over the team and an insurance policy against Darhk possibly getting rid of him. He can prove he can still be useful to him. Or he might have an entirely different plan and it doesn't involve Darhk knowing about their secret identities or at least not knowing right now. Edited February 19, 2016 by Midnight Lullaby

[bijoux]

Okay, this has been noticed by quite a few, so I guess it's worth discussing. Laurel's weird exit after Felicity reminiscing when she first met Oliver: was that weirdness scripted, like Laurel feels awkward/uncomfortable  about it/them, or was just KC giving a weird performance as usual? 

 

I'll take B for a 100, Bob.

[Guest]

Okay, this has been noticed by quite a few, so I guess it's worth discussing. Laurel's weird exit after Felicity reminiscing when she first met Oliver: was that weirdness scripted, like Laurel feels awkward/uncomfortable  about it/them, or was just KC giving a weird performance as usual? 

 

That felt like all KC to me. If it was scripted another character would have drawn attention to the awkwardness and it would be building to there being an issue but the show has gone out of its way to not have Laurel be weird/jealous of O/F. It's totally KC.

[looptab]

Well, then that leads to my second question: why did they leave it like that? LOL It's really weird, like Laurel is pissed and all "While you are busy thinking about old times, I will do something actually useful and work!"

Such a strange line/acting choice combination, hahah.

Edited February 19, 2016 by looptab

[AyChihuahua]

They've left in like 12 "Laurel-Bot is currently powered down; Laurel-Bot is currently powered down" scenes. They probably just don't care enough about her/any weirdness in the scene and/or don't notice. 

[Guest]

Well, then that leads to my second question: why did they leave it like that? LOL It's really weird, like Laurel is pissed and all "While you are busy thinking about old times, I will do something actually useful and work!"

Such a strange line/acting choice combination, hahah.

 

Shitty director. Sorry Bam Bam but you suck.

[Carrie Ann]

I keep seeing it pop up in reviews where it’s pointed out that Felicity is at least sympathetic to Lance lying to her mother to protect her and this being somehow hypocritical later on when she will be upset about Oliver lying to her about William. 

[*lots of good points in between here*]

I'm just saying I don't see how Felicity being ok with some kinds of lies means she isn't allowed to be mad as hell over this  BMD kind of lie.  Not the same kind of lie.

I fully agree with this, but I do worry that at some point in the resolution of this storyline, the writers will make this false equivalence a factor. They did it to poor Iris in S1, and that imbalance was even worse than this one.

 

I do think some secrets or lies are understandable--and sometimes even preferable--to the truth in superhero/vigilante stories. When it came to Quentin's lie, I would have been fine with him just telling Donna that he knew he was being targeted by a crime organization because of his real, actual job as police captain. He never had to get into his side dealings with HIVE, as far as I'm concerned, and it would have still been okay because it would have been truth-y enough for the time being. It gives Donna the information she needs--that he is a target of the same organization that hurt Felicity--so she can choose to continue her association with Quentin or not, with that understanding. JMO.

 

But Oliver's lie falls into the regular old real-life bucket, and no one is protected by it and in fact, the party in question is less safe. I know that, you know that, most of the rational Arrow-watching world knows that, even the writers (except maybe MG) know that. But that doesn't stop them from drawing these weak-ass comparisons in order to pretend there's some balance to the scales, so I do worry about how the BS spewed in this ep will be revisited upon us later in the season.

[Chaser]

I watched the scene again. I think KC started her line early. It overlaps with the tail end of EBRs. I didn't really get NOTP syndrome from KC. I got bad timing and kind of an odd scene.

Felicity and Oliver were doing the sweet rom com thing. Diggle and Lance were just standing there with no reaction. Laurel was right back to work.

Glitter scene hit the mark with the combination of cute but also serious. This scene missed. IMO.

Edited February 19, 2016 by Chaser

[Hiddenpick]

Ugh, I hate it when a story line is constructed employing zero imagination and illogical tripe to show cause for accommodating the break-up of a romantic pairing. It's insulting for one; it's not challenging or satisfying; it's not intriguing drama; it makes the characters vulnerable to ridicule; it affects and disrupts my ability/wish/need/desire to suspend reality and it just pisses me off. I wanna stay in the fantasy of that story. I wanna lather in it, bathe in it, wade in it dammit. I wanna be all up in the throes of it and get jiggy wid it. .

 

I can't, when in addition to the contrived plot, other characters get saddled with the task of validation the silliness. It takes fun out of function. It is most especially frustrating when said validation is verbalized by a character whose sensibilities had been rooted in truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth. Of course I speak of Thea's and Oliver's tete-a-tete, wherein Thea ceased being Thea and became Two-face or something--a conduit through which Oliver could justify his "error" in judgement and receive some sort of absolution. It was the hypocrisy heard around the world.

 

What is the purpose of anvils in a storyline anyhow? Is the thought that we (the audience) are not paying attention? Is it that we are not savvy enough to know about cause and effect? Or is it a tool used when a plot becomes convoluted and inherently silly that there needs to be a 'dumbing down' of characters. I was quite busy dodging and cringing  at each sledge hammer-ry battering when the lie/trust/secret subject was broached with how horrific the reveal of the secret will be. To wit: Lance and Donna's separate mention of Oliver's honesty. The big neon sign in Star square that reads: Commission of an omission is contrition in this here town. I kid, I kid..And there's Felicity's occasional input on the subject as well. Even if the sentiment isn't verbalized, her pleased and proud look when Oliver's integrity is subject of conversation, says it all.

 

Of course there is a concerted effort to let Oliver off the hook by playing the sympathy card. I mean Felicity encouraging her mom to give Lance a chance and suggesting there are legitimate reasons to withhold  life altering  truths is somewhat peculiar, and could be considered misleading. How? Is it okay for Felicity to be that understanding and give advice to her mother, then not follow her own apparent beliefs? Is she exempt from practicing what she preaches? Cause if she is not, then maybe her response to Oliver's secret and lie will be far less devastating and damaging to the relationship, right? Right.

 

If only some of our RL political debates were just like the one in the episode, I'd be a happy camper. This rendition trumped those.  Um...uh-huh...yep. I know, I know...

The Darhk's are a trip. MM with his sling and (no) arrows in Darhk's dark dank dungeon was odd. I wonder if he'll wear a prosthetic hand? Is he having it made? Will he get another ring and be Wrist Al Gruel? Damien should watch his back though. MM is there to seize any opportunity to usurp Darhk Vader's dynasty. Darhk on the screen is always interesting.although his mystical powers almost make his villainy a cop out...almost. What fighting chance does one (villain or hero) have if he's able to transcendentally meditate and transport himself through time and space at will? Anyhoo, I am curious and excited to see how he's going to be defeated and by whom.

 

In spite of the hiccups, the show had an energetic vibe with attempts at sensational stunts. How sensational? Good but not surprising.

I found that the lighter and touching moments to be very sweet. Echo's gift to Felicity...thanks dude you're Terrific. Donna's decor, Donna's choice of invitation; Donna's choice of party games; Donna's dresses, her tresses. Donna giving Lance a tongue...lashing. She's a hoot and she takes obligatory scenes and makes them more than routine. Truth be told I'm more interested to see her reaction to Oliver's confession.

I loved the Olicity moments--all of them. I love the connection and intimacy they share, it makes their union seem seamless. And even as I know that the breakup will be temporary (after all Felicity needs that surgery to walk down the aisle) I am going to miss those little reel-al-ity moments.

[Tara Ariano]

In case you missed it, here's the Previously.TV post on the episode!

 

Arrow Gets Political
Oliver faces his first challenge, in that there's an actual opponent to campaign against.

[lexicon]

What is the purpose of anvils in a storyline anyhow? Is the thought that we (the audience) are not paying attention? Is it that we are not savvy enough to know about cause and effect? Or is it a tool used when a plot becomes convoluted and inherently silly that there needs to be a 'dumbing down' of characters. I was quite busy dodging and cringing  at each sledge hammer-ry battering when the lie/trust/secret subject was broached with how horrific the reveal of the secret will be. To wit: Lance and Donna's separate mention of Oliver's honesty. The big neon sign in Star square that reads: Commission of an omission is contrition in this here town. I kid, I kid..And there's Felicity's occasional input on the subject as well. Even if the sentiment isn't verbalized, her pleased and proud look when Oliver's integrity is subject of conversation, says it all.

 

If anything had me rolling my eyes during COS it was the fact that they felt the need to drop ALL THE ANVILS EVER.

 

Just, what was that?

 

It left me with the distinct impression that they think their audience is stupid or at least they were certainly treating us as if we were, which for an episode written by WM who is an EP left me very, very worried and quite a bit ticked off. 

[AyChihuahua]

I think there are a couple errors in that review, although I don't know that it matters, since it was apparently quite the crapfest episode. I think, although I could be wrong bc I am not watching now, that Thea pulled the fire alarm, not Donna. Also, and I know this bc this was pre-lie and I was watching, Oliver killed Vlad bc Vlad attacked him bc Conklin told Vlad to, not to get anyone to trust him.

Edited February 19, 2016 by AyChihuahua

[Starfish35]

Yes, Thea was definitely the one to pull the fire alarm.

[arjumand]

If anything had me rolling my eyes during COS it was the fact that they felt the need to drop ALL THE ANVILS EVER.

 

Just, what was that?

 

It left me with the distinct impression that they think their audience is stupid or at least they were certainly treating us as if we were, which for an episode written by WM who is an EP left me very, very worried and quite a bit ticked off. 

 

All the anvils left me feeling like I did at the end of Frozen, that is, yelling "WE GET IT! There wasn't much to get, but we get it!" And that was a movie for kids.

 

This show is ostensibly for an older audience, except it's written with the leaden touch of a blacksmith.

Clang! People don't change! Clang! Your relationship is so awesome because of honesty! Clang! Thank god Oliver doesn't lie anymore! There's this strange ringing in my ears, hope it's not tinnitus.

 

I read somewhere (I'm not sure if it was here or on Tumblr, forgive me, today I read and marked over 100 essays of varying quality; my head is swimming and I need a break; and a drink) that Thea's problem was never SECRETS AND LIES in general, it was secrets kept FROM HER and lies told TO HER. Which makes sense, in a horribly selfish, wow, you certainly are a Queen, sort of way. One bit of that ghastly conversation which supports this theory is her offhand comment that she'd love to be an aunt, which at the time struck me as being WTF, this isn't about you, Thea.

 

But now it makes sense. Bravo, WM. I hate Thea again.

 

What I hate about that conversation, and that it seemed to convince Oliver that what he was doing was fine, and the right thing to do, is that I'm afraid that this is going to be used as a club to hit Felicity over the head with - that the arguments herein will be used to call her unreasonable when she leaves Oliver over this. Because what matters is FAMILEEE!

[GirlvsTV]

I want to love the glitter scene but it really bugs me that Felicity told Oliver he needed to look at the invitation, handed it to him and then told him not to open it?

[Starfish35]

Yeah that was weird.

[ComicFan777]

Does anyone know why they keep Thea and Felicity separate most of the time?

I vaguely remember MG mentioning last year that they deliberately kept them apart in early seasons, but it seems that they have never really gotten to know each other (with the exception of last year during the Al-Sahim bit).  It seems strange that their distance would continue now since they will be sister-in-laws.  Just wondering...in light of Thea's speech since she didn't seem terribly upset that Felicity was out of the loop.

Edited February 19, 2016 by ComicFan777

[lexicon]

Terribly upset? Ha, IIRC she not only failed to mention Felicity at all or express any concern about her being out of the loop she all but ignored Oliver's comments about his guilt at lying to a woman he was marrying in her haste to say how important it was to honour a promise to THE MOTHER OF HIS CHILD.

 

I felt that needed to be in caps because that's the way the show and certainly Thea and Oliver treat her, as though she is some magical mystical creature worthy of a special level of care and importance because she birthed the Queen spawn. You know, not like those other women he just slept with 

[kismet]

If anything had me rolling my eyes during COS it was the fact that they felt the need to drop ALL THE ANVILS EVER.

Just, what was that?

It left me with the distinct impression that they think their audience is stupid or at least they were certainly treating us as if we were, which for an episode written by WM who is an EP left me very, very worried and quite a bit ticked off.

I know we're a pretty intelligent bunch here, so we see the story, script & characters on perhaps a different level. But they literally dumbed this story down for the audience. I'm sure my 8yr old nephew could piece together the plot and still feel talked down to.

I'm not sure what is more insulting the fact that TPTB think this is the best plot ever with so many intricacies (when its so simple & contrived) or the fact that they felt the need to dumb it down for us just in case we missed. It wasn't as bad as FLASH's run spot run simplification of plot but it was pretty close. Newsflash- it's not that we don't get it, it's that we do. We just recognize a crap story.

My sister who doesn't even watch the show but just happened to watch this episode even commented on the fact that they really were hitting those lying anvils pretty hard.

It does concern me that WM wrote this. I know it's probably mostly MGs baby, but still she didn't not help the story one iota with all the anvils. I didn't feel OQs guilt. I just felt fatigued from all the warning signs. SA phoned in for plot purposes reactions did not help. He was pretty good for most of the scenes not involving BMD - then BMD would hit and that glazed look would show up in his eyes.

[lemotomato]

Terribly upset? Ha, IIRC she not only failed to mention Felicity at all or express any concern about her being out of the loop she all but ignored Oliver's comments about his guilt at lying to a woman he was marrying in her haste to say how important it was to honour a promise to THE MOTHER OF HIS CHILD.

I felt that needed to be in caps because that's the way the show and certainly Thea and Oliver treat her, as though she is some magical mystical creature worthy of a special level of care and importance because she birthed the Queen spawn. You know, not like those other women he just slept with

At least they're consistent, what with Oliver getting into all sorts of trouble just to make sure his SISTER'S FATHER stays alive no matter what. Edited February 20, 2016 by lemotomato

[AyChihuahua]

At least they're consistent, what with Oliver getting into all sorts of trouble just to make sure his SISTER'S FATHER stays alive no matter what.

Who REALLY matters to Oliver Queen:

 

His half-sister (BLOOD)

His CHILD ZOMG (BLOOD)

His half-sister's INCREDIBLY EVIL biological father (BLOOD)

His CHILD'S MOTHER who is not at all a lying ho who slept with a dumb party boy with a well-known girlfriend (BLOOD)

 

Who doesn't matter:

 

Felicity (NOT blood, ain't birthed his child, gets lied to while Baby Mama (BLOOD) and Malcolm Merlyn (BLOOD) can know the truth)

Diggle (NOT blood, see above)

Roy (NOT blood, left in a puddle to die post-electrocution by Oliver...shoulda knocked up Thea, then maybe he'd have gotten a lift)

Laurel (NOT blood)

 

God this is the worst storyline ever.

[Cthulhudrew]

What's the point of trying to tail someone covertly when you're wearing your costumes, standing in front of bright lights, and doing all kinds of stunt riding and jumping? 

[arjumand]

Does anyone know why they keep Thea and Felicity separate most of the time?

I vaguely remember MG mentioning last year that they deliberately kept them apart in early seasons, but it seems that they have never really gotten to know each other (with the exception of last year during the Al-Sahim bit).  It seems strange that their distance would continue now since they will be sister-in-laws.  Just wondering...in light of Thea's speech since she didn't seem terribly upset that Felicity was out of the loop.

 

That's going to be part of the whole taking sides after the lie comes out, IMO. After MY SON (TM O.Q. 2016) has been saved, of course. I can't remember if this was after or before the conversation in which Felicity (the woman who's in a fricking wheelchair because of her association with her brother) was shown as having been lied to and deceived for months, and not a single fuck was given that day, but remember when they needed the fire alarm to go off, and while Felicity reached for her phone, Thea pulled the fire alarm? And added a snotty "I learned this in high school." OIC, show.

 

So, apparently we're being prepared for Thea and Felicity being at odds, because god forbid our show actually features women getting along - women who aren't related.

 

 

Who REALLY matters to Oliver Queen:

 

His half-sister (BLOOD)

His CHILD ZOMG (BLOOD)

His half-sister's INCREDIBLY EVIL biological father (BLOOD)

His CHILD'S MOTHER who is not at all a lying ho who slept with a dumb party boy with a well-known girlfriend (BLOOD)

 

Who doesn't matter:

 

Felicity (NOT blood, ain't birthed his child, gets lied to while Baby Mama (BLOOD) and Malcolm Merlyn (BLOOD) can know the truth)

Diggle (NOT blood, see above)

Roy (NOT blood, left in a puddle to die post-electrocution by Oliver...shoulda knocked up Thea, then maybe he'd have gotten a lift)

Laurel (NOT blood)

 

God this is the worst storyline ever.

 

And THIS. SO MUCH. Sorry for the allcaps, but fuck me is it becoming obvious, and insulting. I know it's being said that this is all part of Oliver's slow progression to emotional maturity - the thing is, there's slow development and there's continental drift. Also, if I'm being told, over and over, that blood matters more than any other relationship, why should I be invested in any relationship on the show?

 

I keep going back to the conversation between Thea and Oliver - there was no acknowledgement that Felicity, as his future wife, has any importance for Oliver. Nothing that trumps HIS SON, anyway. Finally: Dear Oliver. You weren't told what you needed to hear. You were told what you wanted to hear. There's a difference.

[EmeraldArcher]

And THIS. SO MUCH. Sorry for the allcaps, but fuck me is it becoming obvious, and insulting. I know it's being said that this is all part of Oliver's slow progression to emotional maturity - the thing is, there's slow development and there's continental drift. Also, if I'm being told, over and over, that blood matters more than any other relationship, why should I be invested in any relationship on the show?

 

I keep going back to the conversation between Thea and Oliver - there was no acknowledgement that Felicity, as his future wife, has any importance for Oliver. Nothing that trumps HIS SON, anyway. Finally: Dear Oliver. You weren't told what you needed to hear. You were told what you wanted to hear. There's a difference.

This emphasis on blood relationships explains how Oliver sees himself as William's father in the same way he sees Malcom as being Thea's. It's so far only a biological connection, as neither man has ever parented. I think, fundamentally, it unintentionally highlights the incredibly sexist and culturally ingrained attitudes about reproductive roles. Men "father" a child at the point of conception and are henceforth "fathers." A woman's role is described by verbs related to pregnancy (i.e., "carry," "give birth to," etc.), but when "mother" is used as a verb, it carries the negative connotation of coddling.

As far as we know, Oliver still isn't parenting William, because the kid doesn't know about Oliver's biological role in his life. When kids are introduced to a new parental figure, such as a stepparent, the entire dynamic is oriented around the kid/parent relationship--whether the kid is rebellious or accepting or the stepparent worthy or not. So, it's interesting that our focus has been on the lie to Felicity (because she has our love and loyalty), but the lie to William is equally devastating and makes the whole insistence on fatherhood ridiculous. Either Oliver is just Mommy's friend that spends more time with William than with Mommy, or he's the father who has lied the entire time. Everything about this is so stupid and indicative of idiotic and archaic patriarchal attitudes. Blech.

Thea shooting Malcolm, despite knowing their biological connection, was certainly more courageous and authentic than her stupidity in 4x14.

[dtissagirl]

The only thing that mollifies me about all of this BLOOD SPEAKS LOUDER stupidity is that the only people thinking like that -- Oliver, Thea, Malcolm -- are the ones who lived most of their lives with the proper kind of silver spoon that thinks of kids as HEIRS, and not family. It's still gross thinking, but it's not uncommon amongst billionaires [and former billionaires] who spent their lives worrying about who's"worth" of inheriting their fortunes/legacy.

Edited February 20, 2016 by dtissagirl

[lexicon]

The only thing that mollifies me about all of this BLOOD SPEAKS LOUDER stupidity is that the only people thinking like that -- Oliver, Thea, Malcolm -- are the ones who lived most of their lives with the proper kind of silver spoon that thinks of kids as HEIRS, and not family. It's still gross thinking, but it's not uncommon amongst billionaires [and former billionaires] who spent their lives worrying about who's"worth" of inheriting their fortunes/legacy.

 

This whole stance by Oliver and Thea could be explained away by that but it certainly makes the story they're pushing of Moira shipping the kid off without ever following up on him/cashing of the cheque, even after Oliver was presumed dead for 5 years all the more inexplicable. 

[dtissagirl]

This whole stance by Oliver and Thea could be explained away by that but it certainly makes the story they're pushing of Moira shipping the kid off without ever following up on him/cashing of the cheque, even after Oliver was presumed dead for 5 years all the more inexplicable. 

 

I really have no idea, but my headcanon is Moira was the special snowflake billionaire who didn't believe in the blood speaks louder thing. Maybe she wasn't born to fortune, I don't know. I understand her not ever wanting anything to do with the kid after Oliver "died", because we know she checked out of life and didn't even speak of Robert to Thea for a long time.

 

But the un-cashed check is plain bad writing that makes her look dumb, yeah.

[tv echo]

The only thing that mollifies me about all of this BLOOD SPEAKS LOUDER stupidity is that the only people thinking like that -- Oliver, Thea, Malcolm -- are the ones who lived most of their lives with the proper kind of silver spoon that thinks of kids as HEIRS, and not family. It's still gross thinking, but it's not uncommon amongst billionaires [and former billionaires] who spent their lives worrying about who's"worth" of inheriting their fortunes/legacy.

 

Interesting point.  Although this makes everything worse in a way because Felicity is now the one with the fortune.  If Oliver married Felicity without telling her about his son, and something happened to Felicity, then Oliver would inherit everything that she owns -- which he would then pass down to his son.

Edited February 20, 2016 by tv echo

[Password]

Even though Moira and her money would've thought 'Blood before all else' I have no problem thinking she'd ship the kid off somewhere no one knows about. She also seemed to be a woman about appearances. I mean why did she stay with Robert? He cheated, she cheated, still together. I always thought she saw Laurel as a sought of ideal for Ollie to marry (someone who would turn a blind eye to cheating like her) so a random kid and baby mama would...ruin that perfection.

What would've been really interesting in this scenario is Donna's reaction vs. Moira's. Would Moira be OK with Oliver lying to see his son because it was normal for her to do not particularly good things in the name of protecting them. Or would she tell Oliver to leave that business alone and get on with Felicity?

Sigh this story would've been 10 times better with the Queen around.

Edited February 20, 2016 by Password

[dtissagirl]

Interesting point.  Although this makes everything worse in a way because Felicity is now the one with the fortune.  If Oliver married Felicity without telling her about his son, and something happened to Felicity, then Oliver would inherit everything that she owns -- which he would then pass down to his son.

 

I have to believe Felicity made Oliver sign a pre-nup, and then had her lawyers draw a pretty air-tight testament, if only so her MOTHER gets a fair share in case something happens to her. I just have to.

 

 

Even though Moira and her money would've thought 'Blood before all else' I have no problem thinking she'd ship the kid off somewhere no one knows about. She also seemed to be a woman about appearances. I mean why did she stay with Robert? He cheated, she cheated, still together. I always thought she saw Laurel as a sought of ideal for Ollie to marry (someone who would turn a blind eye to cheating like her) so a random kid and baby mama would...ruin that perfection.

 

Oh, most definitely. Moira wanted the right kind of wife for Oliver, and the proper kid for Oliver that she could curate herself. Rando cheating chick with a surprise pregnancy was never ever in the running towards America's Next Heir Apparent.

[kismet]

I'm handwaving MQ not knowing about the check not being cashed because the timing of when she should have cashed it was so close to e Gambit tragedy. It not be factual, but since the show doesn't care about basic facts why should I?

I'm not appreciating how they are sacrificing MQs character to make BM look better.

This story would have been 10000x better with MQ alive ~ then again so would probably every other storyline since they killed her off for no good reason.

[looptab]

That Slade throwaway line was weird. They keep bringing him up jokingly as if he was a funny, little crazy villain, and not, you know, the man who killed Moira. WTF?! 

[catrox14]

That Slade throwaway line was weird. They keep bringing him up jokingly as if he was a funny, little crazy villain, and not, you know, the man who killed Moira. WTF?! 

 

I didn't understand that line either! That was definitely a WTF moment.

[festivus]

If the person in that grave is not Oliver's kid or that Oliver thinks it's his kid in there then this season will make less sense to me than it does now (which is barely any). Yes, I'm hate watching or more accurately bored watching. No, I don't know why.

 

I'll be nice and say that I liked the scene with Curtis, Felicity and Oliver. That's about it.

[kismet]

That Slade throwaway line was weird. They keep bringing him up jokingly as if he was a funny, little crazy villain, and not, you know, the man who killed Moira. WTF?! 

The only way I could possibly try to explain why it was dropped in, is perhaps they are trying to lay the groundwork for bringing

a Wilson back, like SA mentioned at a con.

. Perhaps they felt the need to remind us that Slade Wilson existed, just in case we forgot. Although why he would be a party planner, I have no idea.

[bijoux]

His decorating abilities weren't that bad. The crashed airplane didn't look nearly as bad as it could have.

[tarotx]

I just take those kinds of lines as thrown ins to make the comic books fans chuckle. Some really do get giddy at Slade and Deathstroke mentions. 

[tv echo]

Did you notice that they gave Felicity the "in your bones" line?  I really wish the writers would just drop that phrase.  It sounds stupid, no matter who says it.

 

Donna: "You don't lie to each other... ever, and he's gonna be the best daddy in the whole world when that time comes."

Felicity: "(chuckles softly)"

Donna: "You know that, don't you?"

Felicity: "In my bones."

Donna: "And when I see something that beautiful and that rare and that romantic, it also reminds me that, you know, I'm never gonna find a love like that."

Felicity: "Yes, you will."

 

Edited February 21, 2016 by tv echo

[bijoux]

I did. It's a stupid and overused line, I always notice it.

[Morrigan2575]

I hate that line

[dtissagirl]

It's something Greg Berlanti says IRL, so they'll never stop using it.

[looptab]

I just take those kinds of lines as thrown ins to make the comic books fans chuckle. Some really do get giddy at Slade and Deathstroke mentions. 

I'm sure it's just that - and honestly, I chuckle too every time they mention him. But, I guess they could find better ways to do it, and not in jokes. It's fun for us, but weird coming from the mouth of the characters, at least IMO.

[theacostov]

I found that "in my bones" line quite funny. Laurel used it when she knew absolutely nothing about his actual life at the time. Felicity uses it when she doesn't realise what a terrible father Oliver is being by keeping this a secret when MM knows. It unintentionally proves what a stupid line it is.

Edited February 21, 2016 by theacostov

[AyChihuahua]

I found that "in my bones" line quite funny. Laurel used it when she knew absolutely nothing about his actual life at the time. Felicity uses it when she doesn't realise what a terrible father Oliver is being by keeping this a secret when MM knows. It unintentionally proves what a stupid line it is.

Yeah, and not only the MM thing, but not actually being the kid's father. The kid thinks he's some weird friend of his mom's who wants to hang out with him all the time. He should be telling a teacher this random dude keeps hanging out with him alone in his bedroom. (And, of course, effectively teaching the kid that lying is SO KEWL, which I'm pretty sure isn't good parenting. IRL the kid would be furious with both his mother and moron Ollie when he found out.)