Disney Films

[Dandesun]

The thing about Cinderella is that it seems to be more of a morality moral, you know? Cindy got screwed because her father died and her step-mother took control of the household. The step-mother was eager to see her own daughters rise, so they got the musical education and the clothes and all the things that would help them land husbands and relegated Cinderella to servant-girl. Cinderella cleaned the house, took care of the animals, took care of her step-mother and step-sisters and remained a good person and was rewarded.

We never really saw what happened to the step mother and sisters... in various fairy tales they wind up suffering a great deal because of their cruelty so there is that. 

I guess it's a little bit more passive but it is basically 'if you're good, good things will come to you; if you're bad, bad things will happen' and while that's not necessarily true it's a decent enough way to try to encourage some kindness and decency. And, yeah, Cinderella wasn't about 'hey, I'm going to the ball because I'm going to land me a prince!' She had a right to go and worked hard to make herself presentable and the others tore her dress apart for it because they didn't want the competition. And, yes, that was when she lost faith... she had done all of this, worked so hard, took care of people and animals and got kicked down for it... again. So the 'darkest moment' is when the Fairy Godmother showed up.

It's all very tropey but 'waiting for a man to save her' really isn't the best description. Based on time period, Cinderella didn't HAVE any other options. She would have been considered property of her parents and only they had the right to allow her anything. In this instance, the Prince out-ranked Lady Tremaine so if he's going to marry your scullery made, guess what, it's happening! The way to look at it is less 'she waited for a man to save her' and more 'in that time, she didn't have the right to an education or to go out and make her own way... things really have changed, haven't they?'

[Mabinogia]

22 hours ago, Dandesun said:

And, yeah, Cinderella wasn't about 'hey, I'm going to the ball because I'm going to land me a prince!' 

She was actually probably the only female there who wasn't there to land the prince. It's probably what made her stand out to him, that she wasn't desperate, laughing at his every joke, hanging around him, agreeing with everything he said in the hopes of being chosen. So she's actually a pretty positive role model in the way that a guy will like you better if you are just acting like yourself, with a mind of your own and not chasing after him like every other girl. 

The thing is, in her situation, in her time, her options were to get rescued by a man or continue to be a servant for the rest of her life. I would love to know what these women thought she should do? Run away and....what exactly? Her options would be, be a maid in a different house, be a whore in a brothel or on the street, marry some rando who will probably treat her badly or be homeless and eventually die.

Though these stories don't take place in real history, they were written in real history and the writers based these worlds on the worlds they lived in. And it wasn't female friendly back then and we shouldn't ignore that. We shouldn't shelter our children from the horrors of history but show them and teach them that we have gone from a world were women had very few choices and that being rescued by a price was probably their best option to a world where women can make their own way in the world and not be reliant on a man. And let your daughters be grateful for the people who fought for those changes. 

These are also just cartoon and if you're kid is dumb enough to believe that they should mirror their lives after Cinderella and you are a terrible enough parent not to talk to them about why that is a bad idea, then you need to lock your kid in a room because this world is going to eat them alive. (not you guys, I mean the mom's who have decided that banning this is the right option. I kind of feel bad for these kids. 

[Spartan Girl]

The hype for the Lion King live action trailer got me thinking about the TLK franchise in general, and I'm probably in the minority of thinking this, but why does everyone think that TLK is one of the best Disney sequels?  Because I personally hated it.  Sure, the animation was pretty good, but the story itself was just a lame Romeo and Juliet ripoff.  Plus, I disliked Kiara immensely.

[Wiendish Fitch]

57 minutes ago, Spartan Girl said:

The hype for the Lion King live action trailer got me thinking about the TLK franchise in general, and I'm probably in the minority of thinking this, but why does everyone think that TLK is one of the best Disney sequels?  Because I personally hated it.  Sure, the animation was pretty good, but the story itself was just a lame Romeo and Juliet ripoff.  Plus, I disliked Kiara immensely.

You're not alone. I loathe the sequel and have way too many issues with it, such as: 

-What the hell happened to the hyenas? 

-Simba banished his fellow lions for following Scar?! He was the king, of course they followed him! Fascist.

-Why haven't Timon and Pumbaa aged? 

-Why would you cast the late, great, fabulous Suzanne Pleshette as such a crappy villain with such a contrived motivation?!

-Why is Simba such a fascist asshole? 

-Why is Nala so inconsequential?

-Why does Kiara suck so much? Oh, wait, 'cause her parents suck. Never mind.

-Whose sadistic idea was it to give Rafiki a song (which just so happens to be one of the worst Disney songs ever, IMO)?

and finally

-WHAT THE FUCK IS ANDY DICK DOING HERE???!!

Edited November 26, 2018 by Wiendish Fitch

[Spartan Girl]

4 hours ago, Wiendish Fitch said:

-Simba banished his fellow lions for following Scar?! He was the king, of course they followed him! Fascist.

I call bullshit on that whole plot because there weren't ANY lionesses that remained loyal to Scar in the original movie. Why WOULD they?! Not only did he murder his own brother, but his vain stupidity almost destroyed the whole pridelands! The writers just retconned it to create drama in the sequel.

I hate Kiara for the single fact that she wasn't the SLIGHTEST bit upset that Kovu had lied to them all and was basically using her to kill her own father. Even if he did switch sides and didn't ultimately go through with it doesn't make him any less bad. Say what you want about Simba being overprotective but his suspicions were pretty much justified. But did any of that register with Kiara? Nope, she was ready to throw away her whole family for a guy she basically knew for a few fucking days. WHO PLANNED TO KILL HER FATHER.

Fuck this sequel, seriously.

[Wiendish Fitch]

14 minutes ago, Spartan Girl said:

Fuck this sequel, seriously.

Fuck all the Disney sequels, reboots, remakes*. There, I said it.

 

*Okay, Maleficent and Cinderella are guilty pleasures, but that's it.

[Trini]

7 hours ago, Spartan Girl said:

but why does everyone think that TLK is one of the best Disney sequels? 

I don't know who "everyone" is, but I've never heard this.

Excluding Pixar, the best Disney animated sequel is The Rescuers Down Under.

[Wiendish Fitch]

3 minutes ago, Trini said:

I don't know who "everyone" is, but I've never heard this.

Excluding Pixar, the best Disney animated sequel is The Rescuers Down Under.

*Smacks forehead*

Stupid me, how could I forget The Rescuers Down Under?!?!?!? That movie is wonderful! Bad Wiendish, bad!

And, yes, the Pixar sequels are, for the most part, pretty good. I overstated my opinion, it happens, I stand corrected.

[Trini]

8 minutes ago, Wiendish Fitch said:

Stupid me, how could I forget The Rescuers Down Under?!?!?!? That movie is wonderful! Bad Wiendish, bad!

But I'm with you with the other animated sequels, which are subpar cash grabs.

[Spartan Girl]

1 hour ago, Wiendish Fitch said:

*Smacks forehead*

Stupid me, how could I forget The Rescuers Down Under?!?!?!? That movie is wonderful! Bad Wiendish, bad!

And, yes, the Pixar sequels are, for the most part, pretty good. I overstated my opinion, it happens, I stand corrected.

 

1 hour ago, Trini said:

But I'm with you with the other animated sequels, which are subpar cash grabs.

I thought the Aladdin sequels were pretty good too.

[SilverShadow]

Aladdin is interesting because it more or less started the Direct To Video sequel trend. Mermaid got a prequel TV series and Aladdin followed suit. What became Return of Jafar started as the then-standard multi-part pilot for the series (Ducktales, Rescue Rangers, and later Gargoyles had 5-partners while others had more modest 2 to 3-parters). You can see where the commercial breaks and possible episode endes would have been if you look for them. Then someone realized they could make a ton of money if they sold it on VHS instead of just doing a TV premiere and history was made. King of Thieves was done by the same team who did ROJ and the series and originally was going to be more of a direct follow-up, but, particularly after they got Robin back as the Genie, they decide to make it more stand-alone. There is an easter egg where you can see some characters from the series at the wedding in the end. (Prince Uncouthma and his family, Mamoud, the boy king who could control the weather, Sadira the sand witch who started off having a crush on Aladdin and then became friends with the gang, and one or two others)

Edited November 27, 2018 by SilverShadow

[tennisgurl]

I thought the Aladdin sequels were pretty good, if I remember right. No one was terribly out of character or had to become an asshole to facilitate the plot, and the stories all felt like real continuations of the original story, and not just a bunch of retreads of the first movie. Not as good as the original, but not bad at all. 

The Disney sequel that I really hated as a kid was the Little Mermaid sequel. I just could not get over how stupid everyone was acting. All of the problems just seemed so easy to solve, if people would just talk to each other! I mean, your baby is threatened by a goofy evil sea witch? Well, alright, youll have to move her to one of your certainly many inland houses or castles, or just build a new one (I mean, your the king and queen. You can do that) and keep her there until she gets older, then explain why she cant go into the ocean unsupervised, and about the whole half mermaid thing. Or combine forces with the merpeople and Erics Navy (again, your the queen of land, and princess of the sea. You can do that) and track down this goofy comic relief villain pretty easily. Not that big of a deal.

OR, if your taking stupid pills, you can build a big ass wall around your city, presumably crushing the local fishing and trading industries and costing the kingdom a TON of money, cut off all contact with your family and friends instantly, have all of your people pretend that they dont know that merpeople are totally real, lie to your daughter about being half mermaid, your whole family and original home, and keep her out of the ocean (despite, you know, still living right next to it) just yelling "the sea is dangerous!" over and over, guaranteeing a teenager will think thats the one place to be, instead of just saying "if you go out there, you night get murdered by a psychopath who hates our family", which is a much better way to get someone to stay away! Then, because you told her nothing and just lied to her and gaslighted her, so of COURSE she is easy to manipulate by the villain, because she knows nothing! Honestly, the whole movie was just an exercise in horrible communication and stupidity, and I just have never bought that Eric and Ariel could be that dumb and crappy to their kid. Or that Ariel would do the exact same thing that her father did! She remembers how that ended, right?! Little Tennisgurl was super pissed. 

[SilverShadow]

I am so conflicted about Mermaid 2. I love Melody's (Ariel and Eric's daughter) design and characterization but I agree the plot is terrible and the villain underwhelming. 

[Spartan Girl]

Yikes.  I'm glad I didn't watch the Mermaid sequel all the way through.  I can NEVER buy Ariel being an overprotective parent.

Simba, on the other hand, I could understand.  His dad's death and the way Scar messed with his head all those years did quite a bit of damage, and even when he found out it wasn't really his fault, that doesn't mean the guilt automatically just goes away.  So I get that he went a little overboard with Kiara -- that was the only thing in that stupid sequel I thought was realistic.

[Dr.OO7]

Why I love Eric:

Returning to a flaming, sinking ship to save his dog Max. And when he's trapped trying to escape, he throws him free, showing himself willing to make a sacrifice for him.

Do you ever realize how frigging strong Ariel must be? She's a little slip of a girl, yet is able to grab him, then pull him up to the surface and to shore with one arm, propelling herself with the other. Apparently, that collection of hers includes barbells.

[Spartan Girl]

4 hours ago, Camille said:

Why I love Eric:

Returning to a flaming, sinking ship to save his dog Max. And when he's trapped trying to escape, he throws him free, showing himself willing to make a sacrifice for him.

Do you ever realize how frigging strong Ariel must be? She's a little slip of a girl, yet is able to grab him, then pull him up to the surface and to shore with one arm, propelling herself with the other. Apparently, that collection of hers includes barbells.

And she did it all in a RAGING STORM, no less. Bravo!

Other than Eric and Ariel, you know who I really love? Grimsby. A no-nonsense butler who was a bit uptight but loved Eric like a son and was able to see that Ariel was one in a million.

[Wiendish Fitch]

31 minutes ago, Spartan Girl said:

 

Other than Eric and Ariel, you know who I really love? Grimsby. A no-nonsense butler who was a bit uptight but loved Eric like a son and was able to see that Ariel was one in a million.

"Eric, if I may say, far better than any dream girl is one of flesh and blood. One warm, and caring, and right before your eyes."

This is quite possibly the greatest dating advice ever. It's a shame Scottie from Vertigo didn't have someone tell him the same thing.

Edited November 29, 2018 by Wiendish Fitch

[Dee]

Tom Hanks Circling Geppetto Role in Disney’s Live-Action ‘Pinocchio’

Quote

Tom Hanks is in early talks to play the fatherly figure Geppetto in Disney’s live-action adaptation of its classic animated tale “Pinocchio.”

“Paddington’s” Paul King is directing. Andrew Miano and Chris Weitz are producing. King, Weitz, and Simon Farnaby wrote the most recent draft.

The original animated movie tells the tale about a living puppet who, with the help of a cricket as his conscience, must prove himself worthy to become a real boy. Geppetto is the puppeteer who created Pinocchio and eventually becomes the fatherly figure he always wanted.

Edited November 29, 2018 by Dee

[Spartan Girl]

Of course Tom Hanks is playing Gepetto. He's played everyone else :)

[Dee]

Tom Holland would make a great Pinocchio.

[Dr.OO7]

7 hours ago, Wiendish Fitch said:

"Eric, if I may say, far better than any dream girl is one of flesh and blood. One warm, and caring, and right before your eyes."

This is quite possibly the greatest dating advice ever. It's a shame Scottie from Vertigo didn't have someone tell him the same thing.

Yes, but then there would have been no movie. 😄

[Trini]

Eric is actually one of the most well-rounded Disney princes*.

 

*(that includes other male leads/love interests that aren't actual royalty.)

Edited December 2, 2018 by Trini
did i really type 'erica' - get it together trini!

[GHScorpiosRule]

I made a KILLING post-Thanksgiving! The Little Mermaid AND The Jungle Book's prices came DOWN from the $40 to under $20 and I got them both!

Watched them back-to-back and saw what was expanded in both live versions of The Jungle Book. Kaa was just evuhl, but of course, in the Netflix version, she was an all-knowing "good" python, who saw the past and future. Whereas in the original animated version, he was just as rotten as the snake in Robin Hood. The animated version. Ooh! Must get that one next.

The ending was as ridiculous as when I first saw it. 10 year old boys still think girls are icky. So Mowgli falling into wuv, was...well, I won't nitpick. It's a movie. But I WILL NITPICK over the red bindi the girl had. Because BACK THEN, the red bindi stood for a MARRIED WOMAN. MORONS.😒😒😒😒 But I did giggle at the Elephant's name. Col.? Gen? Haathi! Hee. 😀😀Because Haathi is Hindi for "Elephant." The alternate ending is something similar we saw in the Netflix version. That Mowgli was the leader of the pack, but not Shere Khan's ending. I have to go rewatch the theatrical version. I can't recall how that one ended.

And then I curled up and enjoyed The Little Mermaid. Ahhhh, teen love. I fucking love Pat Conroy as Ursula. So very EVUHL and Delicious with it. She's right up there with Maleficent. And I'm sooo glad that "Harold" was left on the cutting room floor. We didn't need to see him or what became of mermen and mermaids who couldn't pay Ursula back. We saw that already with those poor souls in the actual movie.

[Spartan Girl]

1 hour ago, GHScorpiosRule said:

The ending was as ridiculous as when I first saw it. 10 year old boys still think girls are icky. So Mowgli falling into wuv, was...well, I won't nitpick. It's a movie. But I WILL NITPICK over the red bindi the girl had. Because BACK THEN, the red bindi stood for a MARRIED WOMAN. MORONS.😒😒😒😒 But I did giggle at the Elephant's name. Col.? Gen? Haathi! Hee. 😀😀Because Haathi is Hindi for "Elephant." The alternate ending is something similar we saw in the Netflix version. That Mowgli was the leader of the pack, but not Shere Khan's ending. I have to go rewatch the theatrical version. I can't recall how that one ended.

I agree, the Disney live action one had a better ending.  Now I'm curious about the Netflix one...

[GHScorpiosRule]

1 minute ago, Spartan Girl said:

I agree, the Disney live action one had a better ending.  Now I'm curious about the Netflix one...

The Netflix version was also very good. But I'm Christian Bale's BITCH and LOOOOOVED his Bagheera, so take that as you will. It will make you cry though. And Though I love Matthew Rhys, who is also in this movie--as a human--his Hindi was ATROCIOUS. Cate Blanchette plays Kaa. It's got a great voice cast: Andy Serkis plays Akele.

[Ailianna]

On 12/18/2018 at 10:24 AM, GHScorpiosRule said:

Watched them back-to-back and saw what was expanded in both live versions of The Jungle Book. Kaa was just evuhl, but of course, in the Netflix version, she was an all-knowing "good" python, who saw the past and future. Whereas in the original animated version, he was just as rotten as the snake in Robin Hood. The animated version. Ooh! Must get that one next.

I recently re-read the book, and in it, Kaa is a friend to Mowgli, and as much a teacher and adviser to him as Baloo is.  I'm definitely not a snake person, but it was definitely a bit of a stereotype for them to make the snake evil.

[paramitch]

On 12/18/2018 at 9:25 AM, GHScorpiosRule said:

The Netflix version was also very good. But I'm Christian Bale's BITCH and LOOOOOVED his Bagheera, so take that as you will. It will make you cry though. And Though I love Matthew Rhys, who is also in this movie--as a human--his Hindi was ATROCIOUS. Cate Blanchette plays Kaa. It's got a great voice cast: Andy Serkis plays Akele.

(Just a small correction -- Serkis actually played Baloo, and Peter Mullen played Akela. But the entire voice cast was incredible, especially Bale, Harris and Mullen, and I thought Cumberbatch was a fantastic Shere Khan.)

I just watched MOWGLI and while I liked it (I didn't love it -- it was a little too cruel for me on both sides) there were some moments of incredible power and impact, like Shere Khan drinking in the pool Mowgli was hiding in (bloodying the water). I also loved the moment when Bagheera shows Mowgli how to hunt but also how to respect the moment of death for the prey.

But the moment I will never get over is when Mowgli goes into the hunter's office and

Spoiler

sees the HEAD OF HIS POOR ALBINO WOLF CUB BROTHER.

I will never get over that shit. Never, ever, ever. I actually screamed when it happened. In a very strange way, it's one of the most horrifying things I've ever seen in a movie. Just because the character is so adorable and believable and sweet and then... whoa.

I respect Serkis's willingness to go dark, but DAYAMN... (sniffle)

Meanwhile, I did love last year's lighter, sweeter JUNGLE BOOK but I'm still miffed they cut Scarlett Johansson's silky, sexy "Trust In Me" and just played it over the end credits. I absolutely loved her voice performance as Kaa in that.

Edited December 27, 2018 by paramitch
(Added a note about Serkis credits)

[Spartan Girl]

I watched Mowgli on Netflix and I thought it was okay, albeit darker than I'm used to (sometimes the lighter Disney versions are better). Plus the CGI wasn't as good as Disney's. But it was definitely more faithful to the Kipling novel. And like the above poster I was horrified by

the poor wolf puppy's death. That was too much for me

.

[paramitch]

1 hour ago, Spartan Girl said:

I watched Mowgli on Netflix and I thought it was okay, albeit darker than I'm used to (sometimes the lighter Disney versions are better). Plus the CGI wasn't as good as Disney's. But it was definitely more faithful to the Kipling novel. And like the above poster I was horrified by

  Reveal hidden contents

the poor wolf puppy's death. That was too much for me

.

I know, right? I mean -- the worst part is that Mowgli can be argued to be pretty responsible there. Not wholly responsible, but yeah, I want him to marinate in guilt for a decade or two. Maybe three.

And seriously, I will never get over it. I cannot imagine watching that scene as a child. It would have fucked me up in perpetuity.

[GHScorpiosRule]

6 hours ago, paramitch said:

(Just a small correction -- Serkis actually played Baloo, and Peter Mullen played Akela. But the entire voice cast was incredible, especially Bale, Harris and Mullen, and I thought Cumberbatch was a fantastic Shere Khan.)

I just watched MOWGLI and while I liked it (I didn't love it -- it was a little too cruel for me on both sides) there were some moments of incredible power and impact, like Shere Khan drinking in the pool Mowgli was hiding in (bloodying the water). I also loved the moment when Bagheera shows Mowgli how to hunt but also how to respect the moment of death for the prey.

But the moment I will never get over is when Mowgli goes into the hunter's office and

  Reveal hidden contents

sees the HEAD OF HIS POOR ALBINO WOLF CUB BROTHER.

I will never get over that shit. Never, ever, ever. I actually screamed when it happened. In a very strange way, it's one of the most horrifying things I've ever seen in a movie. Just because the character is so adorable and believable and sweet and then... whoa.

I respect Serkis's willingness to go dark, but DAYAMN... (sniffle)

Meanwhile, I did love last year's lighter, sweeter JUNGLE BOOK but I'm still miffed they cut Scarlett Johansson's silky, sexy "Trust In Me" and just played it over the end credits. I absolutely loved her voice performance as Kaa in that.

Oops! My bad. But Bhoot, the albino wolf-pup, was played by another Serkis. I don't know if they're related. I SCREAMED in horror when I saw what had happened to Bhoot! And FYI, that name means Ghost in Hindi.

I also, will never get over that shit. Nevereverever.

I just loved the gravitas that Bale gave to Bagheera--what really was a gut punch to me was when he told Mowgli how he was tortured and kept by the humans, and showed him the scar around his neck. Or the fight between him and Baloo, when Baloo accused Bagheera of preventing Mowgli from winning.

1 hour ago, paramitch said:

I know, right? I mean -- the worst part is that Mowgli can be argued to be pretty responsible there. Not wholly responsible, but yeah, I want him to marinate in guilt for a decade or two. Maybe three.

And seriously, I will never get over it. I cannot imagine watching that scene as a child. It would have fucked me up in perpetuity.

Yup.

I can't say that this movie is appropriate for kids. Especially not after what happened with Bhoot. And I find it interesting how Mowgli was banished for bringing fire to the woods when in the Disney version, it was brought and used against Shere Khan as a result of lightning hitting a tree trunk and making fire. Then Mowgli using that and tying it around Shere Khan's tail.

And tomorrow, I'm going to watch Bale go from hero to villain when I go see Vice.

[Amethyst]

I think there's room for both versions of TJB.  I loved the Disney version, but the Netflix one wasn't bad.  Solid voice acting and some would prefer the darker tone vs the upbeat Disney type.

You could tell they took some of the human features of the voice actors and shaped them into the faces, especially Peter Mullan.  Not a bad choice, except for Benedict Cumberbatch.  He's already alien looking, and morphing that in, along with an oddly large head made Shere Khan look creepy.  Disney won that one, with visual and voice acting.  Idris Elba's was better.

Spoiler

Couldn't agree more about Bhoot.   So disturbing, I had to pause the movie and wait a minute.  It didn't help that the poor cub was still smiling.  I'm thinking the hunter lured him out and killed him by surprise. 

Definitely not appropriate for kids.  Children would have run screaming out of the theater after seeing that.

[Spartan Girl]

So I caved and got the Robin Hood 40th anniversary Blu-Ray today, an underrated Disney gem if there ever was -- and probably one of the best version of Robin Hood ever. We've all confessed how attractive fox Robin Hood is, and I always had a soft spot for Phil Harris' bear Little John.

Maid Marian might not be the the most memorable Disney female, but I think she wasn't merely a damsel. I think she was strong and feisty in her own right, reminiscent of the Olivia du Havilland version. It's just a shame she got left out of the third act.

Edited March 3, 2019 by Spartan Girl

[Annber03]

God, I haven't seen that movie since I was a kid. I loved it, too. 

I need to go through and restock my Disney collection over again. We had a bunch of the movies at one time, but a lot of them got lost in various moves and whatnot over the years. 

[Spartan Girl]

When I watched the cartoon as a kid, I was confused as to why Hiss was acting so silly after being trapped in an ale barrel. Of course now that I'm older I know better, LOL.

Lady Cluck was a badass!

[Trini]

1 hour ago, Spartan Girl said:

Maid Marian might not be the the most memorable Disney female, but I think she wasn't merely a damsel. She think she was strong and feisty in her own right, reminiscent of the Olivia du Havilland version. It's just a shame she got left out of the third act.

Fun fact: Maid Marian is one of the few animated leading ladies to have a female best friend/sidekick*. Yes, Lady Cluck was awesome!

-------

*The Disney thing where even if it's a film with a female lead, she's still surrounded by dudes is a WHOLE other discussion....

[Spartan Girl]

9 hours ago, Trini said:

Fun fact: Maid Marian is one of the few animated leading ladies to have a female best friend/sidekick*. Yes, Lady Cluck was awesome!

-------

*The Disney thing where even if it's a film with a female lead, she's still surrounded by dudes is a WHOLE other discussion....

Oh my God, you're right! I never thought of that before but female friendship is rare in Disney cartoons! There's Marian and Lady Cluck*, Tiana and Charlotte, and Anna and Elsa...and that's pretty much it! That's kind of why I'm intrigued by Jasmine getting a handmaid friend/sidekick in the live action Aladdin...I just hope she doesn't turn out to be evil or anything.

*I wonder if Disney knew the irony of a vixen being friends with a chicken.

[Katy M]

2 hours ago, Spartan Girl said:

Oh my God, you're right! I never thought of that before but female friendship is rare in Disney cartoons! There's Marian and Lady Cluck*, Tiana and Charlotte, and Anna and Elsa...and that's pretty much it! That's kind of why I'm intrigued by Jasmine getting a handmaid friend/sidekick in the live action Aladdin...I just hope she doesn't turn out to be evil or anything.

*I wonder if Disney knew the irony of a vixen being friends with a chicken.

Probably.  They were foreshadowing the Fox and the Hound.

[Trini]

8 hours ago, Spartan Girl said:

Oh my God, you're right! I never thought of that before but female friendship is rare in Disney cartoons! There's Marian and Lady Cluck*, Tiana and Charlotte, and Anna and Elsa...and that's pretty much it! That's kind of why I'm intrigued by Jasmine getting a handmaid friend/sidekick in the live action Aladdin...I just hope she doesn't turn out to be evil or anything.

Yeah, I remember a bit of discussion about it in the TWoP gender thread ages ago. Pocahontas also had a female friend, but her (male) animal friends had more scenes. I think we can also count Aurora(Sleeping Beauty) and her 3 fairy godmothers. But otherwise, it's pretty sparse. 

With Pixar, Princess Atta(A Bug's Life) had a mother and little sister; Brave was a rare one with two female leads*; Riley (Inside Out) had a female best friend, but wasn't a big part of the story, but female-voiced Joy and Sadness were; Dory in Finding Dory had Destiny, but the cast was still heavily male.

I can't speak about Coco, Cars 3, or Incredibles 2.

So yeah, it isn't only Disney, but there's a history of gender imbalance.

*(Although you'd never know that from the marketing.)

[Skyflower]

This is my beloved latest film Ralph breaks the internet https://lookmovie.ag/movies/view/5848272-ralph-breaks-the-internet-2018 

[BetterButter]

[Spartan Girl]

Oh NOW she's the mistress of all evil?! One movie too late!

You know at least the other Disney live action movies didn't turn the bad guy into the secret hero!

[tennisgurl]

Yeah I guess she went from Mistress of all Evil to silly babysitting duties, and back again. Whatever. 

[Dandesun]

If they had started with this, I would have been way more interested. There remains nothing about the first one I remotely want to see. Maleficent, as far as I've been concerned, was perfect as she was in Sleeping Beauty. She was the Mistress of All Evil, a Bad Fairy, the way you often find in fairy tales and I didn't need a backstory or a fucking rape allegory to explain any of it. She's Unseelie Fae and I never needed anything more than that.

[Mabinogia]

Sleeping Beauty had all the backstory Maleficent needed. She wasn't nice, no one liked her, she wasn't invited to parties and she took it out on an infant. 

Maleficent, as seen in Sleeping Beauty, is my all time favorite villain. 

The movie Maleficent is, IMO, about a totally different fairy who happens to have the same name, cause that sure wasn't my Maleficent. 

[Wiendish Fitch]

Here is an interesting article about Snow White and the Seven Dwarfs in the era of #MeToo.

Edited March 17, 2019 by Wiendish Fitch

[Spartan Girl]

7 hours ago, Wiendish Fitch said:

Here is an interesting article about Snow White and the Seven Dwarfs in the era of #MeToo.

First, that was a pretty well-thought article.

Second, and for the millionth time, THE KISS DOES NOT PERPETUATE RAPE CULTURE. He thought she was dead, it was just an innocent quickgoodbye peck on the lips. There was no necrophilia involved! Jesus Christ...

[Luckylyn]

https://www.goodhousekeeping.com/life/entertainment/a25726169/disney-streaming-service-cost/

 Information about Disney’s upcoming streaming service 

 

Edited March 19, 2019 by Luckylyn

[Wiendish Fitch]

On 3/17/2019 at 7:25 PM, Spartan Girl said:

First, that was a pretty well-thought article.

Second, and for the millionth time, THE KISS DOES NOT PERPETUATE RAPE CULTURE. He thought she was dead, it was just an innocent quickgoodbye peck on the lips. There was no necrophilia involved! Jesus Christ...

Let us all remember: the rules of real life rarely apply to fairy tales. 

I found the greatest argument for Snow White and the prince's relationship was on the fanlisting page, and I will paste it as follows:

 

Quote

The Theory: My sister came up with this not-so-crazy theory one of the last few times we were watching Snow White. (We watch it A LOT.) Anyways, during the part where the Prince sings, "One Song," she suddenly pauses it and goes, "I"VE GOT IT!" Now, stop us if you think we're crazy, but, her theory was: What if Snow White and the Prince had already met, and it wasn't the "so-called love at first sight" that annoys people? Just think about it for a second. Snow White says that she is wishing for the one she loves (present-tense, note the present tense!loves, not will love!) to find her, not necessarily meet her, but find her, like arrange a rendevous with her. Then, the Prince, astride his horse, hears her, and a huge grin covers his face, as he hurriedly jumps over the wall. Now, unlike Prince Philip in Sleeping Beauty, he did not stop in his tracks while riding and cock his head and say, "What is that? That...voice? Let's go see what it is!" Prince Charming didn't seem at all confused or curious. He looked quite excited, indeed, like he had just found his long-lost girlfriend. And then, when he suddenly appears behind her and joins her in her song, she looks slightly surprised and turns and says "Oh!" Then, the Prince does not say, "How do you do?" or "Pleased to meet you." He just says, "Hello, did I frighten you?" Now, when I've startled someone that I know, that's what I usually say. If the Prince were a stranger to Snow White, I think she'd do more than just say, "Oh." Aurora looked positively terrified when she heard Philip singing with her, and was positively flabbergasted when he started talking to her. Sure, Snow White was surprised to see him, but one usually is a bit startled when someone sneaks up on them. One time, I was listening to music and working at my desk, and my sister snuck in the room to turn up the volume on one of her favorite songs. I saw a hand appear out of nowhere, and I screamed bloody murder! And I've known her all my life! ...But I digress. I know Snow White ran into the castle, but she looked embarrassed, not frightened, probably because she didn't want him to see her in her rags. Then, (and this is the real kicker!) He sings to her, "Now that I've found you, (found, not met!) hear what I have to say!" Then, "One love, that has possessed me (note the PAST tense! If he just met her, how could it have possesed him?) One love, only for you!" Now, as my sister has so wisely said, when you're doing the first animated feature, and it is already SUPER long, you don't want to waste time on backstory! On the Snow White DVD, the animators themselves said that they planned on having the Prince be in it a lot more, like a scene where the Queen kidnaps him, but they had trouble drawing him! So, why bother telling the Prince and Snow White's story, when they can leave it up to the audience's imagination? Later in the movie, when Snow White is telling the dwarfs of her Prince, they ask if he stole a kiss. She replies, "He was so romantic, I could not resist." Well, they certainly did not kiss when they were in the garden, so when did they? Hmm? Now, I know that in some stories about Snow White and the Prince, they do say that they had just met, and it was "love at first sight," but, really, who can trust the stories? Does it actually say that in the movie? NO. 'Nuff said.

[Mabinogia]

That would make a great Snow White prequel. About the actual first time they met, why they couldn't be together, how far he went to find her again. Hmmm

I love Snow White. I will always love Snow White. I don't care about real world rules of consent. It is a fairy tale. It was revolutionary, a full length "cartoon". It was beautifully animated and the story is a classic. 

I really don't want our history, books, movies, etc sanitized to make it more palatable to those who seek out things to be offended by. 

[Wiendish Fitch]

Snow White and the Seven Dwarfs, for whatever flaws it has, is a beautiful, groundbreaking film, and we need to respect and preserve it. 

I realize the Evil Queen's story is basically "vanity is bad", but I think it goes a little deeper than that. I for one think the Evil Queen's jealousy of Snow White could be seen as a cautionary tale about the folly of excessively conformity to societal standards (she'll do literally anything to be "fairest of them all") and the tendency to view younger women as a threat or imaginary competition. Society has become more image-obsessed than ever thanks to social media (I know, real hot take, but indulge me), so it's important to keep our Evil Queen-like tendencies in check.

I normally don't like those Disney "what if" novels, but I highly recommend Serena Valentine's Fairest of All. It gives the Evil Queen a good backstory, and there's even a bit of redemption at the end. If they ever made a film adaptation of it, Jessica Chastain would crush it as the Evil Queen. Yes, I realize Chastain was technically in a Snow White movie already (The Huntsman: Winter's War), but that movie was garbage, barely anyone saw it, and Snow White was hardly in it, if at all, so it doesn't count, IMO.

Edited March 20, 2019 by Wiendish Fitch