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maraleia

By maraleia
in Sleepy Hollow [V]

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jenrising
jenrising
cynic
cynic

Oh, I have no doubt that Beharie wanted to leave. My issue is the laying of blame at Beharie for wanting to leave without considering why she wanted to leave. It was pretty clear two and a half years

Badsamaritan
Badsamaritan

I don't believe a word from FOX. Look how they treated Orlando Jones, by far their biggest cheerleader. And the fact that he has still been supporting Nicole tells me he knows what the fuck really hap

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cynic

cynic

(edited)

Hollywood Reporter interview with the showrunners about the crossover including this little tidbit about the Ichabbie shipteasing on Bones.

Bones makes a comment during the first hour about Ichabod making his relationship with Abbie romantic. That’s something that Sleepy Hollow fans have been clamoring for. Was that a joke or might he take that seriously?

Campbell: That’s a wink to the audience, certainly to the 'shippers — the ones who would like to see something like that happen. It’s fun to see that Booth and Brennan at one point had a similar professional relationship. There was a similar chemistry that was sort of undeniable. I don’t recall how long it took themselves to realize that internally in the show, but it seems to me 10 seasons later that it’s worked out pretty well. [The line] is just a look into the potential future of this show in terms of their relationship. It’s not something we are actively pursuing. That’s a fun time line that any show has fun exploring and teasing the audience and giving them a little bit of what they want.

http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/live-feed/bones-sleepy-hollow-bosses-crossovers-834340 Edited by cynic
Miss Dee

Miss Dee

It's not meaningless. He said it's something they're not *actively* pursuing - in other words, it's not a plot point yet. His next comment goes as follows:

Campbell: Having done shows like this before, you don’t know when you’re starting out what timeline is the right one for a relationship like this. You have to feel your way through it episode by episode and season by season. The slow burn is actually the one that people, despite the fact they want it to happen now, is the one that’s much more satisfying over the long haul.

In other words, it's not off the table and it's going to be a slow burn if and when it does happen.

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Free

Free

Unless SH manages to hang on to most/all of the crossover bump (not likely), I doubt it's going to get a season 4. So when the showrunner says they're not pursuing it right now, that probably means we'll never see it. Maybe we'll get a some expression of feelings in the finale or a kiss if we're really lucky.

 

Agreed, it's already struggling as it is.

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Miss Dee

Miss Dee

In my opinion, we do not know yet if SH is going to get cancelled. In the meantime, the writers still have to make a story and this is not the one they want to tell just yet. If that means they don't get time, I will be sad but it is their story and their perogative. I am content with a slow burn as that is my favourite kind of story. I like the buildup and the slow, patient construction of a foundation.

And in my opinion, Ichabod is not going to become brain-damaged and Abbie is not going to become monosyllabic. I don't believe holding out hope for a slow burn requires anyone to accept this as the only possible creative choice open to the writers.

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Indi

Indi

So eight years from now, we can look forward to brain-damaged Ichabod and monosyllabic Abbie pointing out to random passersby that they have sex all the time?

 

Thrilling!

 

However, I think Campbell meant they are not pursuing it (good) and that they just like to tease the shippers (bad). He must know the show is not getting a S4, so it doesn't really matter anyway.

 

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DearEvette

DearEvette

(edited)

In my opinion, we do not know yet if SH is going to get cancelled. In the meantime, the writers still have to make a story and this is not the one they want to tell just yet. If that means they don't get time, I will be sad but it is their story and their perogative. I am content with a slow burn as that is my favourite kind of story. I like the buildup and the slow, patient construction of a foundation.

And in my opinion, Ichabod is not going to become brain-damaged and Abbie is not going to become monosyllabic. I don't believe holding out hope for a slow burn requires anyone to accept this as the only possible creative choice open to the writers.

 

Ha!  I agree, believe it or not S4 may not be that unreasonable.  Overnight ratings across the board on lots of shows this season are dismal.  Ratings for shows are dropping like flies.  Outside of Empire and the Big Bang Theory, scripted shows this week have topped out at a 2.2.  Most of them falling below a 2.0.  And what is even more surprising no shows have gotten cancelled yet.  Episode orders shortened, yes, but outright cancelled? No.  And people are speculating that represents a sea change in how the nets are interpreting ratings.

 

But beyond that, Campbell isn't saying anything new.  They've always downplayed or pooh-pooh explicitly committing to pursuing Ichabbie.  The most problematic thing is admitting to playing around with shippers.  It is bad form.  It feels like they are trolling.  Since you've pretty much said you aren't going to pursue it now, why tease the people who want it to happen?  You are giving them false hope.  Not pursuing the romance, imo is fine, esp since that isn't the story you want to tell.  But playing peek-a-boo with a segment of the fandom's hope  is just not cool.

Edited by DearEvette
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Watermelon

Watermelon

In my opinion, we do not know yet if SH is going to get cancelled. In the meantime, the writers still have to make a story and this is not the one they want to tell just yet. If that means they don't get time, I will be sad but it is their story and their perogative. I am content with a slow burn as that is my favourite kind of story. I like the buildup and the slow, patient construction of a foundation.

And in my opinion, Ichabod is not going to become brain-damaged and Abbie is not going to become monosyllabic. I don't believe holding out hope for a slow burn requires anyone to accept this as the only possible creative choice open to the writers.

Pretty sure that was Booth and Brennan shade.  Because Brenna is absolutely monosyllabic and Bones made those allusions that Booth/Brennan = Crane/Mills

Julia

Julia

Pretty sure that was Booth and Brennan shade.  Because Brenna is absolutely monosyllabic and Bones made those allusions that Booth/Brennan = Crane/Mills

 

It was. Booth barely says anything any more, and Brennan has been retconned into a spectrum disorder, and they have less contact now than they did in season one when they weren't supposedly having constant sex. So between everyone calling out the parallels in the actual Bones episode and the showrunner saying that relationship is a template for Ichabbie, I figured that's what they're trying to say.

MissAlmond

MissAlmond

To add to DearEvette's comment on changing viewers habits:

 

http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/news/fall-tvs-slow-death-march-836722

 

 

"With viewing habits as they are, it's crazy to judge the performance of a show right out of the gate," NBC Entertainment president Jennifer Salke told THR ahead of the fall season. Agrees another high-ranking network exec: "It's a new world. Everyone wants to hedge their bets because we won't know what the live-plus-7 trend is on these shows." And with more series owned by networks' studio counterparts (all mentioned above but The Player fall into that category), there is reluctance to cut bait. "It's not as black and white as it used to be," adds the exec.

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Miss Dee

Miss Dee

(edited)

Hi Watermelon - I knew that was shade at Brennan and Booth, which is no big deal. I was just pointing out that if (for argument's sake) that is an example of a poorly constructed romance on television, it need not follow that Ichabod and Abbie are similarly fated.

Miss Almond, that is a particularly encouraging quote. SH does very well with PVR numbers factored in and it is a Fox property. I'm hoping recent casting news shows Fox still has investment in the show.

Edited by Miss Dee
topanga

topanga

(edited)

 

Crane goes on a date in exclusive Sleepy Hollow clip

 

A little awkward, as first dates often are. But cute. 

 

Zoe to Crane: "If your house were on the fire, what's the first thing you'd grab?"

[in my mind]:  "Leftenant Mills, of course."

 

 

There's more to this show than romance! Check out this sneak peak clip from TV Line:

Ooh. Scary.

Edited by topanga
HalcyonDays

HalcyonDays

Tweets from Shernold Edwards, the lady who wrote this episode (she a WOC, but she's Canadian too! Hell yeah!!)

 

@ShernoldEdwards Also curious how much leeway each writer gets for their individual episodes.

Shernold Edwards ‏@ShernoldEdwards 13h13 hours ago Los Angeles, CA

 

Shernold Edwards Retweeted Elaina

A writer comes in with ideas, but ultimately the team is working on a season-long goal and the two need to mesh.

 

@ShernoldEdwards How long exactly is Zoe's arc? Please say it's almost over...

 

Shernold Edwards Retweeted Alyssa G.

Can't speak to length, but I can say this arc is important to the growth of our dynamic duo.

 

Ha! Exactly what I thought.

 

Here's her twitter for more insight.

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cynic

cynic

SH makes EOnline's list of shows that should be cancelled.

http://m.eonline.com/news/711961/bye-alicia-7-tv-shows-that-need-to-end-after-this-season-the-good-wife-and-castle-included

I don't know if I agree that it should get the axe, but I do agree that it's lost something and isn't the satisfying, despite the improvement shown in season 3.

I think I'm also done hoping for Ichabbie. I just don't think they're going to get to it even if they are planning for it down the road. I think the road is rapidly coming to a dead end and if it's not now, it's going to be never. And that's fine, if that's the way they want to go. However, if the writers do mean to do a slow burn, I think that they are shooting themselves in the foot, because a lot of people were hoping for Ichabbie and a lot of people don't buy the shipteasing anymore, so they're not coming back or sticking with the show, because it looks like Ichabbie isn't going to happen. If the writers real intention is to eventually do Ichabbie, they should give more of an indication that they are endgame to keep people interested in it. Right now I don't really care about it and that's largely because the show doesn't seem to and it gives me nothing to get excited about. Eh, last night got a .9, so SH didn't hang on to the crossover bump, so this is all probably a moot point anyway.

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Julia

Julia

I thought that was interesting. Various iterations of Kristin's blogging have made a business model out of a steady stream of 'spoilers' earned by stanning the showrunners of (among other shows) Bones, Castle and Sleepy Hollow while they went off the rails. In some cases for years and years.

Now that all three of those shows are under new management, it's taken her all of two months to decide they can't stop the bleeding?

It makes me wonder if perhaps the new showrunners haven't decided that the poking the fans with a stick model is not a great way to keep viewers. And that would suck for Kristin, and Matt, and Michael...

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Blackhoney

Blackhoney

bullshit.jpg

 

 

 

 

Lies! Nothing but lies. That line is straight outta Mark Goffman’s season two playbook. He said almost the exact same thing last year when he was interviewed after the disastrous mid-season finale.

 

Six episodes into season 3 and SH is an unmitigated flop. The Witnesses are further apart than ever before and episode after episode is bogged down with forgettable storylines, pointless flashbacks and a need to once again focus on Crane’s personal life.

 

How is watching Titsy Ross hit on Crane week after week going to eventually mean something for the Witnesses? How are Crane’s date nights going to in any way bring about some grand realization for the Witnesses? Hmmm? When the writers say Witnesses, what they really mean is Crane.

 

The Witnesses and their bond are no longer the focus of this show and it hasn’t been since season one. The focus is on Crane and his growth. Abbie is just along for the ride. Anyone who believes anything different has not been paying attention to what they have shown us. Stop listening to what the writer-producers SAY and instead pay attention to what they DO, and what they actually choose to show us week after week.

 

They’ve destroyed Ichabod and Abbie. They have destroyed the Witnesses. The two can’t spend five minutes together without Zoe or Daniel or someone else being the topic of their conversation. The rampant criticism of fans this season is proof that the writers have failed in their so-called attempt at making it all about the Witnesses.

 

And I cannot say in enough ways how much I hate the way the writers use Abbie to prop up other women in Crane’s eyes. All Abbie does is co-sign every wench the show sends his way, while gleefully being written as some career obsessed shrew that DON’T NEED NO MAN.

 

This notion that these writers, this group of people, have fucked up the first half of the season, but are gonna miraculously bring it all together in the second half, is laughable. They’re gonna bring it together alright, but not the way fans want.

 

All this crap the writers are spewing about great things coming are a lie. Come on, people, are we really gonna fall for that again? The idea that Crane dating Zoe is vital to the Witnesses growth is a joke. I posted on another forum today telling people Zoe is not going to be a Catalyst for anything Witness or Ichabbie related. Again, when the writers say WITNESSES, they mean Crane only.

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jhlipton

jhlipton

(edited)

 And what is even more surprising no shows have gotten cancelled yet.  Episode orders shortened, yes, but outright cancelled? 

 

TV Grim Reaper (who used to be the Cancellation Bear) had a post on why the nets don't use the "C" word much any more (even when a show is effectively cancelled by episode shortening).  It mostly has to do with DVD and overseas sales, and things of that nature.

BlackHoney, I feel like we watched two completely different shows this week.

 

EDITED to correct who I was responding to.

Edited by jhlipton
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Indi

Indi

Yeah, that sounds like bullshit, Blackhoney, but what else can she say? It's not like she's the one making decisions. I don't see how Zoe can mean any growth to Abbie. I even doubt she is going to be important for Ichy's growth. So what if he has fallen in love with her? It wouldn't be the first time he falls for some mediocre dull woman, because they put him on a pedestal. However, it's not like Shernold can say she's a waste of everyone's time.

 

And why would she be a catalyst to anything Ichabbie related? Didn't Iscove tell us a few days ago Abbie is meant to work hard and not for romance? Didn't Campbell admit the Ichabbie scenes were a dangling carrot for the shippers, but that they didn't mean anything?

 

If anything, I found Shernold's script the most honest of all. At least she didn't bait the shippers, to keep them watching. 

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Blackhoney

Blackhoney

(edited)

TV Grim Reaper (who used to be the Cancellation Bear) had a post on why the nets don't use the "C" word much any more (even when a show is effectively cancelled by episode shortening). It mostly has to do with DVD and overseas sales, and things of that nature.

BlackHoney, I feel like we watched two completely different shows this week.

EDITED to correct who I was responding to.

I didn't watch this week's episode. Haven't watched Sleepy Hollow is about 3 or 4 weeks now. I was responding to Shernold's tweet about the Crane/Zoe romance bringing about some sort of growth for the Witnesses.

Yeah, that sounds like bullshit, Blackhoney, but what else can she say? It's not like she's the one making decisions. I don't see how Zoe can mean any growth to Abbie. I even doubt she is going to be important for Ichy's growth. So what if he has fallen in love with her? It wouldn't be the first time he falls for some mediocre dull woman, because they put him on a pedestal. However, it's not like Shernold can say she's a waste of everyone's time.

And why would she be a catalyst to anything Ichabbie related? Didn't Iscove tell us a few days ago Abbie is meant to work hard and not for romance? Didn't Campbell admit the Ichabbie scenes were a dangling carrot for the shippers, but that they didn't mean anything?

If anything, I found Shernold's script the most honest of all. At least she didn't bait the shippers, to keep them watching.

Yes he did, and now the backlash has begun. The show's writers are just towing the party line and telling fans what they want to hear to keep them watching while they continue to carry out their plan to turn season 3 of Sleepy Hollow into a colonial version of The Bachelor.

Edited by OnceSane
removed bolding
Julia

Julia

It's not season one, and I don't know if what it is now is enough to keep the show from being strangled by the cold dead hand of season two. On the other hand, though (maybe this belongs in UOs)? I feel like if last season wasn't such a massive sore spot, this season would be pretty clear sailing for me.

Obviously, Betsy Ross was a mistake, and she was miscast. But a little more imagination, they could have swapped the actresses who play Betsy and Zoe and it might have kind of worked, given that both of them are kind of crammed into the corners of episodes as after thoughts. I could see Betsy as an ordinary-looking young quaker woman who's more badass than she seems, and Zoe as a girly-girl from a powerful family who feels like she's a total badass because she knows how to ride a horse.

There are shows I will never forgive, because at some point they crossed a line with me that they can't come back from. It's a totally personal line, and I'm not convinced there's anything those shows can do which would make a difference to me personally. And maybe it's because I stopped watching season two fairly quickly, but this show hasn't pushed me across that line yet. And if this were season two, I would think it was a decent sophomore season.

In either case, I think we can all agree that both the showrunner and that odd young noob from the writer's room who has appointed himself spokesman for the show on twitter need to hand off their passwords to someone with their best interests at heart and take a nice rest.

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DJG1122

DJG1122

So far in S3, I'm seeing that the Witnesses have a strong bond but it's not the focus of the show. The characters are being fleshed out and we are getting backstory, but Ichabod and Abbie seem almost caricatures of themselves (Ichabod is a bit goofy and Abbie is a bit stoic). Even with all the fleshing out, they seem to me to be almost one-dimensional. I'm seeing more dimensionality from Jenny and Joe.

I'm watching now only because I like Pandora and want to see where CC & Co are going with this.

  • Love 3
vanarnd1

vanarnd1

It's not season one, and I don't know if what it is now is enough to keep the show from being strangled by the cold dead hand of season two. On the other hand, though (maybe this belongs in UOs)? I feel like if last season wasn't such a massive sore spot, this season would be pretty clear sailing for me.

Obviously, Betsy Ross was a mistake, and she was miscast. But a little more imagination, they could have swapped the actresses who play Betsy and Zoe and it might have kind of worked, given that both of them are kind of crammed into the corners of episodes as after thoughts. I could see Betsy as an ordinary-looking young quaker woman who's more badass than she seems, and Zoe as a girly-girl from a powerful family who feels like she's a total badass because she knows how to ride a horse.

There are shows I will never forgive, because at some point they crossed a line with me that they can't come back from. It's a totally personal line, and I'm not convinced there's anything those shows can do which would make a difference to me personally. And maybe it's because I stopped watching season two fairly quickly, but this show hasn't pushed me across that line yet. And if this were season two, I would think it was a decent sophomore season.

In either case, I think we can all agree that both the showrunner and that odd young noob from the writer's room who has appointed himself spokesman for the show on twitter need to hand off their passwords to someone with their best interests at heart and take a nice rest.

I agree and I think the problem is Campbell and company have acted like Season 2 didn't happen and they were coming in with a clean slate. They thought just because Katrina is gone fans would be happy and they wouldn't have to address any other issues.

 And they acted so surprised that fans didn't like the idea of Betsy Ross when the character was spoiled, and I just don't think they understand their audience much at all. They still preach patience but don't take into account that fans have been hearing that for over a year and that the issues in regard to Ichabod and Abbie are still repeating themselves to an extent this season. I like the show more this season, but you can still see the flawed mindset that Ichabod needs to have his romantic life focused on and be the driving force of the show. Since they seem hopelessly stubborn on that front, at the very least the writers and everyone involved in the show should stop trying to argue/justify things to the fans and just take a break from social media as you said.

  • Love 7
Free

Free

I agree and I think the problem is Campbell and company have acted like Season 2 didn't happen and they were coming in with a clean slate. They thought just because Katrina is gone fans would be happy and they wouldn't have to address any other issues.

 And they acted so surprised that fans didn't like the idea of Betsy Ross when the character was spoiled, and I just don't think they understand their audience much at all. They still preach patience but don't take into account that fans have been hearing that for over a year and that the issues in regard to Ichabod and Abbie are still repeating themselves to an extent this season. I like the show more this season, but you can still see the flawed mindset that Ichabod needs to have his romantic life focused on and be the driving force of the show. Since they seem hopelessly stubborn on that front, at the very least the writers and everyone involved in the show should stop trying to argue/justify things to the fans and just take a break from social media as you said.

 

Exactly, they don't understand the root of the problem so instead of actually fixing the problem, they just replaced it with a different one.  S2's finale ending should've been what this season should've strived for in this retooling.

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Free

Free

Sleepy Hollow is moving to a new date and time in February. It will air Fridays at 8pm. Not sure if this is good or bad news.

 

http://www.fox.com/article/fox-announces-winter-premiere-dates

https://twitter.com/SleepyHollowFOX/status/664171540078985217

 

After its numbers this season, it probably won't make much of a difference now, but at least it's not in a crowded slot anymore.

Julia

Julia

Sleepy Hollow is moving to a new date and time in February. It will air Fridays at 8pm. Not sure if this is good or bad news.

 

http://www.fox.com/article/fox-announces-winter-premiere-dates

https://twitter.com/SleepyHollowFOX/status/664171540078985217

 

I'm going to say good. Bones never did have coattails to speak of, and there's a lot less competition on Friday.

LeeLeePanda

LeeLeePanda

Sleepy Hollow is moving to a new date and time in February. It will air Fridays at 8pm. Not sure if this is good or bad news.

http://www.fox.com/article/fox-announces-winter-premiere-dates

https://twitter.com/SleepyHollowFOX/status/664171540078985217

I think it's good. It's no longer up against Scandal and The Blacklist. And as a fan of both Scandal and Sleepy Hollow I'm happy that I won't have to choose which one to watch live anymore. Also, I don't think Friday is considered the death slot any more. Fringe seemed to thrive, as has Grimm on NBC. In fact a lot of people of the Sleepy Hollow Facebook page are excited to watch Sleepy Hollow at 8, then Grimm at 9.

  • Love 4
catrox14

catrox14

People said the same thing about Fringe, and Fridays turned out to be the reason it survived as long as it did - loyal audience and less pressure.

 

Supernatural also survived the Friday Night Death slot but that's mostly because both of those shows IMO had/have incredibly loyal audiences that went where it went. I'm not so sure Sleepy Hollow has that much loyalty built up.

  • Love 2
icewolf

icewolf

I totally called it in the ratings topic a few weeks back

 

 

I wonder when FOX will announce that Sleepy Hollow will move to Fridays?

Being on Fridays means less pressure to get high ratings. FOX managed to get 2 extra seasons out of Fridge after the move, and Grimm will hit 100 episodes this season with so and so ratings on Fridays that would have been unacceptable any other day of the week.

I imagine FOX will try to save this show instead of just letting it sink since they have a stake in it, they are making the show.

calibabe

calibabe

While the move may be good, Friday nights aren't high viewing time but could prove of benefit to SH. Really if you look at most numbers for many of the shows the numbers for everyone other than Empire, NFL Football, most if not a majority are in the 1.1-2.0 range most nights. So with SH getting a 1.0, 0.9 that really isn't that far off from what most of these shows are having even on high viewing nights. While its good not to have the competition of Scandal or Blacklist, I'm not sure that an 8-9 week break at this juncture is helpful either plus switching to a new night. That could very well doom the show if it hasn't already been doomed previously. 

Yolapukka

Yolapukka

 

I'm not sure that an 8-9 week break at this juncture is helpful either plus switching to a new night. That could very well doom the show if it hasn't already been doomed previously.

 

I'm not sure the short break between the two halves of the last season was useful either, that second half seemed to just fly by and I almost missed the start. With the change in nights,  the wider gap gives them more of a window to promote the change and less of a gap between one season and the next, if there is a next. I think the wide gap between the end of last season and the beginning of this one hurt viewership. Poor promotion didn't help.

Free

Free

I'm not sure the short break between the two halves of the last season was useful either, that second half seemed to just fly by and I almost missed the start. With the change in nights,  the wider gap gives them more of a window to promote the change and less of a gap between one season and the next, if there is a next. I think the wide gap between the end of last season and the beginning of this one hurt viewership. Poor promotion didn't help.

 

A time slot change always carries some risk, especially on Fridays, but anything is possible I guess.

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