Sleepy Hollow in the Media

[blixie]

 

Reed was good in Thirteen, but that was a long time ago, and she was easily surpassed in talent by Evan Rachel Wood.  Reed wasn't bad in Twilight either, I just don't think she has a lot of range.

 

Yeah she was good in Thirteen (and helped shape the story/script with Catherine Hardwicke), but lets be real, she was a precocious teen playing a precocious teen so it wasn't exactly a stretch at the time. I actually think she's fairly charismatic (though agreed not super skilled), so I kind of wish she was playing Pandora and that they had 86'd this stupid Betsy Ross shit as soon as they thought of it.

 

I have never seen or  liked Shannon Sossoman in anything, and she named her kid Audio Science. Ahem.

[bethy]

 

I have never seen or  liked Shannon Sossoman in anything, and she named her kid Audio Science. Ahem.

 

Has CPS been notified?

[DearEvette]

So they have a Season 2 re-cap clip running on Hulu.com (it is actually a trending clip so yay!) and it is ALL Abbie & Ichabod.  Very, very little Katrina.  You'd think she was barely in the season.

 

http://www.hulu.com/watch/823443

[phoenics]

So they have a Season 2 re-cap clip running on Hulu.com (it is actually a trending clip so yay!) and it is ALL Abbie & Ichabod.  Very, very little Katrina.  You'd think she was barely in the season.

 

http://www.hulu.com/watch/823443

I pity the fool who falls for that clip and watches season 2.

[DeLurker]

Or the vitriol reaction of the Katrinastans.  Their heads would explode.

 

Sadly, if S3 is lackluster, they will dance in their Katrina Kovens and attribute the failure to her absence.

[jhlipton]

I have finally found some photos of the brunch Lyndie and Orlando were at during the San Diego Comic Con: https://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set=a.10153586975026264.1073741831.24530951263&type=3

 

(Lyndie is "cosplaying" as a character called "Dee" from a comic called  "The Rat Queens":

[Blackhoney]

So they have a Season 2 re-cap clip running on Hulu.com (it is actually a trending clip so yay!) and it is ALL Abbie & Ichabod.  Very, very little Katrina.  You'd think she was barely in the season.

 

http://www.hulu.com/watch/823443

I saw the season two recap clip on Hulu as well and was shocked at how little of what season two was really about was featured in the video. There are two more clips I’d never seen either, but someone on Tumblr said they weren’t new. They feature Tom and Goffman talking about the season ender.

Hopefully scenes from the S2 DVD will start making their rounds soon.

[jhlipton]

Maybe the S2 DVDs will only have the first 2 and last 2 episodes on it!

[Yolapukka]

I am having trouble reading through the thread because of the rage blackouts that started after I clicked links to the various articles which announced Nikki Reed joining the cast. I realize such  puff-pieces are reworked press releases padded with speculation presented as fact but they are so consistent in announcing the "great" addition of Kickass! Betsy! Ross! that it seems the production thinks this sort of thing is what fans really want. It sounds less like an exciting notion and more like an indication that there may be no impulse to return the focus of the show to it's core strengths. Sleepy Hollow already has more than one kick-ass female character, characters who are also layered, appealing and believable. There is no need to twist the narrative to accommodate a high-concept anachronism with super sewing prowess. Bitch better stay in flashbacks.

 

The Bones crossover sounds just plain stupid.

 

I will now read though the last few pages and hope to find something that doesn't piss me off.

 

ETA;

I have read a few posts that made me feel better. The Betsy Ross as Mrs. Smith stuff still cheeses me off.

 

Oddly enough, I thought about a Knight's Tale yesterday and wondered whatever happened to Shannyn Sossamon.

Edited July 30, 2015 by yuggapukka

[Julia]

I'm tentatively excited about the Bones xover. Not that I trust the writer/producers of Bones as far as I can throw them, but I'm kind of captivated with the image of Temperance Brennan and Ichabod Crane being pedantic and condescending to each other while Abbie Mills and Seelie Booth roll their eyes.

 

I'm probably not going to get what I want from the show, but I imagine the crackfic is going to be epic.

Edited July 30, 2015 by Julia

[DearEvette]

I'm tentatively excited about the Bones xover. Not that I trust the writer/producers of Bones as far as I can throw them, but I'm kind of captivated with the image of Temperance Brennan and Ichabod Crane being pedantic and condescending to each other while Abbie Mills and Seelie Booth roll their eyes.

 

I was completely neutral on the Bones Crossover.  I like Bones but my reaction was more of a 'how can they mesh the two shows' than 'oh this a bad idea'.  But since it appears that Abbie is gonna be FBI that creates a connection right there,  But now that you say this, I kinda like the idea of Abbie & Booth doing an eye-roll off while Ichabod and Brennan out pedantic each other.  Actually I am kinda looking forward to Booth's reaction to Ichabod.

[Aoife]

I'm thinking that if they can't get through the week without some epic bad event happening, it doesn't bode well for this new season.

 

I stopped watching Bones a million seasons ago, but it still seems a really odd match for a spin off. 

 

The whole kick ass woman is strange. Isn't that what Jenny is for?

[HalcyonDays]

I'm thinking that if they can't get through the week without some epic bad event happening, it doesn't bode well for this new season.

 

When I first read this sentence, I thought you were talking about the show episodes themselves and I was like, "But that's the part of the show...fighting some evil person/circumstance every week."

 

Then I realized you meant bad epic event in real life. Ha! And yeah, pretty much...

[HalcyonDays]

Double-posting for this:

 

FINALLY some Ask Ausiello News on SH. Come on people, tell me this doesn't sound good? It does to me!!

 

Question: SleepyHeads are dying for information about Sleepy Hollow Season 3. We are starving over here! —Regina
Ausiello: Feast on this: Season 3 picks up one year later and finds Abbie, having completed her training at Quantico, returning to Sleepy Hollow as a FBI agent. BONUS SCOOP: We will also see the return of Joe Corbin (Zach Appelman), who will team up with Jenny to aid Ichs and Abbs.

 

 

Ha! KNEW there had to be a time jump. There is no other way to do it. The last thing we need is listening to Crane mourn the wife. He needs to have closure OFF screen and move on. Excellent.

 

And so many have wanted Joe Corbin to come back - and he is (not sure for how long). And Abbie an FBI agent! YES. Very happy about that, because she had to leave that dream behind in seasons 1 and 2.

 

Reading the above and *boom* I'm excited!

[catrox14]

Boo to the time jump. I'm sorry but that sucks. 

 

So what, Ichabod is in Sleepy Hollow by himself for a year without Abbie? Does he go to Quantico with her? I don't like that at all.

[cynic]

I had seen the rumors about Joe Corbin returning. I'm glad to see it finally confirmed. I liked the actor a lot.

[BigEasygirl]

Double-posting for this:

 

FINALLY some Ask Ausiello News on SH. Come on people, tell me this doesn't sound good? It does to me!!

 

 

Ha! KNEW there had to be a time jump. There is no other way to do it. The last thing we need is listening to Crane mourn the wife. He needs to have closure OFF screen and move on. Excellent.

 

And so many have wanted Joe Corbin to come back - and he is (not sure for how long). And Abbie an FBI agent! YES. Very happy about that, because she had to leave that dream behind in seasons 1 and 2.

 

Reading the above and *boom* I'm excited!

Very excited that it's been confirmed that Abbie's an FBI agent, and Joe Corbin is joining TeamWitness.  Best news to come out so far!

[Blackhoney]

http://www.tvguide.com/news/mega-buzz-sleepy-hollow-spoilers-headless-joe-corbin/

 

So, Headless is officially out as well.
How do you guys feel about that?

While I am disappointed, I am only mildly shocked. Abraham is just another casualty of Crane Family Drama. Tying the Horseman of Death to Crane and his wife was a mistake and everything having anything to do with that is being purged and rightfully so.

There was no way to bring back Headless without bringing back Abraham and then that would lead to what no one wants, more talk of Katrina and Headless possibly continuing on with his vendetta to avenge Katrina’s death at the hands of Crane.

[catrox14]

BOOO! You can't have Sleepy Hollow without headless!Headless :(. Man....:(

[Blackhoney]

While the image of the Headless Horseman is very much ingrained in Sleepy Hollow and the show version, with the right storyline, the show can survive without it. I was also hoping they'd abandon the whole founding fathers theme, but given that we're getting a sexy Betsy Ross, I doubt that will open. Out with the OLD and in with the NEW I say. The show needed to be revamped and they're doing just that. 

[kieyra]

Not quite as invested as you thread regulars, but delurking to say the time jump makes me happy. I'll give you the casual viewer perspective, in case it's helpful in predicting whether the show can make a comeback: so much of the show's mythology and storytelling was a serious muddle, especially by season two. I kept watching because of the leads' chemistry and then later solely because of the drama. A time jump will provide distance from that muddle, from CFD, and a clean slate. If anything will enable them to reboot the show and INVEST me beyond the pretty, talented leads, that'll do it.

Defiance is a show that had a rocky first season, did a time jump and a signficant story fast-forward, including some info-dump and introduction of new characters and circumstances, but still ended up a much stronger show with a clearer vision. It can be done.

Halt and Catch Fire is another good example, but it's mega niche (millieu is mid 80s computer drama) and almost no one is watching the vastly improved second season, so I'm not as hopeful for a third.

Not quite as invested as you thread regulars, but delurking to say the time jump makes me happy. I'll give you the casual viewer perspective, in case it's helpful in predicting whether the show can make a comeback: so much of the show's mythology and storytelling was a serious muddle, especially by season two. I kept watching because of the leads' chemistry and then later solely because of the drama. A time jump will provide distance from that muddle, from CFD, and a clean slate. If anything will enable them to reboot the show, that'll do it.

Defiance is a show that had a rocky first season, did a time jump and a signficant story fast-forward, including some info-dump and introduction of new characters and circumstances, but still ended up a much stronger show with a clearer vision. It can be done.

Halt and Catch Fire is another good example, but it's mega niche (millieu is mid 80s computer drama) and almost no one is watching the vastly improved second season, so I'm not as hopeful for a third.

Edited August 3, 2015 by kieyra

[HalcyonDays]

Boo to the time jump. I'm sorry but that sucks. 

 

So what, Ichabod is in Sleepy Hollow by himself for a year without Abbie? Does he go to Quantico with her? I don't like that at all.

 

Well, I am not sure what about the time jump bothers you? Since most people are all about Abbie and screw Crane and all things Crane. Especially since he is merely the "co-lead" and I am constantly reminded of that. I am not sure as to what the time jump garners a "Boo" from you. Please (if you have the time) explain, and SVP.

 

(Shit, this feels like it's coming across confrontional, and it's really not...late night, long work, miserable mess.....)

 

For me - honestly - I like it because I don't have to hear Crane speak another word about the wife and their BS "true luv" and all of that bloody fake ass "perfect" relationship which any sane individual knows is not. Honestly. I don't think I could take it anymore of it.

 

So hell ya - time jump is brilliant. Because I don't have to hear Crane mourn over a useless, incompetent, almost magicless witch who was trying to essentially destroy the world (inadvertently, because she is clueless...and dumb), all because of her selfishness and self-rightiousness over her son.

 

http://www.tvguide.com/news/mega-buzz-sleepy-hollow-spoilers-headless-joe-corbin/

 

So, Headless is officially out as well.

How do you guys feel about that?

While I am disappointed, I am only mildly shocked. Abraham is just another casualty of Crane Family Drama. Tying the Horseman of Death to Crane and his wife was a mistake and everything having anything to do with that is being purged and rightfully so.

There was no way to bring back Headless without bringing back Abraham and then that would lead to what no one wants, more talk of Katrina and Headless possibly continuing on with his vendetta to avenge Katrina’s death at the hands of Crane.

 

Headless as ACTUAL Headless with machine gun and awesomeness was a singular character in itself. It/He/She? would have been able to weave itself into the SH world without issue. The moment that Headless became the lost lorn lover of Goffman's muse (KW), all was lost. Headless lost his drive, his power, his initial impact.

 

I understand why the new writers "let him go."  They could write a story that would conclude his story - and that may happen - but if not, well, so be it Headless.

 

I hope many watchers who complain don't forget - some of the things you lament may be resolved, yet others things you may be angry about may manifest itself. You cannot have it all. So be happy with what you got, and hope that what you did not expect, will turn out well.

[catrox14]

I've always been a big supporter of Ichabbie in whatever manner so for me, separating them by a timejump takes that away from me.  I have no idea why my opposition is so controversial. 

 

My point is want to see Ichabod and Abbie cope together with their new circumstances immediately following the events of the s2 finale. Are they also going to tell me that suddenly for a year or however long a way she is at Quantico that nothing weird happens in Sleepy Hollow? But if it does, the only other Witness besides Ichabod doesn't need to be around for that?  It's inorganic because we got no hints of that at the end of s2.  They could have done a coda to put her their but instead we lose that really important time period for both of them to adjust together.  

 

I want to see him gradually adjust to being without Abbie and see Abbie gradually adjust to being at Quantico. But I'm different that way. It's very few shows that can pull off a good time jump. BSG and LOST did it very well. But you'll forgive me for wanting to Ichabbie find their footing again together.

 

And we don't know for sure that Crane would even be lamenting the loss of his wife. Maybe he would come to see that her being gone is completely for the best because of what she did. 

 

I also feel like it's inorganic just to make a tie to Bones for the crossover event. I just liked my little show that could from s1 where it was goofy and weird and we had headless!headless. I'm happy to have "Sleepy Hollow" back but it sure doesn't seem like it's ever going to be that fun show we had before. 

Edited August 3, 2015 by catrox14

[Indi]

Wait, Joe Corbin was a fan favorite? That's news to me! I thought his father was the fan favorite, but I admit my memory of Joe is too fuzzy and maybe he was a cool character after all. All I remember is that he hated Abbie for some lame reason. Did that get solved or is he joining the team with a grudge against her? 

 

I LOVE the fact that Abbie comes back an FBI agent. She followed her dreams and didn't let Ichy's manpain drag her down! That's progress in my view. I hope they don't dwell on details about how it happened, because I'm afraid they'll have her leave for Quantico, after nursing his manpain, when I hope she left very soon after the S2 finale.

[Amethyst]

Joe Corbin's down-to-earth presence was one of the few highlights from last season, so I'm glad he's returning.  I'm also OK with the time jump, because it looks like the most sensible way to get past Crane's inevitable mourning of Katrina.  Abbie being an FBI agent could open up some amazing opportunities for her.  Even with some of the questionable new casting choices, it looks like they're really trying to clean up the mess that was s2 and do a soft reboot of the show.

 

I am disappointed to lose Headless/Abraham, though.  He was a big part of the premise and they really screwed up any potential he had.  But on the other hand, I get that the writers don't know what to do with him now, because he's basically lost his motivation to be there.  Moloch is gone, Henry is gone, Katrina is gone.  There's nothing left for Abraham in Sleepy Hollow. 

 

But I do hope they actually say what happened to Headless rather than just pretending he didn't exist, like the Kindred.  That still irks me.

 

Wait, Joe Corbin was a fan favorite? That's news to me! I thought his father was the fan favorite, but I admit my memory of Joe is too fuzzy and maybe he was a cool character after all. All I remember is that he hated Abbie for some lame reason. Did that get solved or is he joining the team with a grudge against her? 

 

Abbie was Joe's former babysitter.  Joe resented his father's close relationship with Abbie and felt she was responsible for Corbin's death.  After Abbie and Ichabod saved Joe from the wendigo transformation, Joe apologized to Abbie and told her that he was at her disposal if she ever needed him.

[Free]

http://www.tvguide.com/news/mega-buzz-sleepy-hollow-spoilers-headless-joe-corbin/

 

So, Headless is officially out as well.

How do you guys feel about that?

While I am disappointed, I am only mildly shocked. Abraham is just another casualty of Crane Family Drama. Tying the Horseman of Death to Crane and his wife was a mistake and everything having anything to do with that is being purged and rightfully so.

There was no way to bring back Headless without bringing back Abraham and then that would lead to what no one wants, more talk of Katrina and Headless possibly continuing on with his vendetta to avenge Katrina’s death at the hands of Crane.

 

The Crane family drama did so much damage to the series unfortunately.  That said, the new characters don't sound as interesting like say 'sexy' Betsy Ross.

[HalcyonDays]

I've always been a big supporter of Ichabbie in whatever manner so for me, separating them by a timejump takes that away from me.  I have no idea why my opposition is so controversial.

 

It's not controversial. What it is, is sacrifice. We have to sacrifice seeing how Crane and Abbie deal with the aftermath, in order to not listen to Crane mourn and wail over the wife. Tom Mison is a fantastic actor and would sell it to death - but I personally cannot take one more mention of that useless individual. That is how much season 2 turned me against She Who Must Not Be Named.

 

Wait, Joe Corbin was a fan favorite?

 

Yes he was/is. Some people do like the other characters, want to see more of them, not just Abbie.

 

In terms of the role Joe will play, looks like he will team up with Jenny, do some jobs to help out Ichabbie, and they also are going to explore their relationship some more. If you remember in the episode he appeared in, there was a brief scene were you could immediately tell that Jenny and Joe were really close friends. This is what should have happened last season, so this is good.

[Indi]

Abbie was Joe's former babysitter.  Joe resented his father's close relationship with Abbie and felt she was responsible for Corbin's death.  After Abbie and Ichabod saved Joe from the wendigo transformation, Joe apologized to Abbie and told her that he was at her disposal if she ever needed him.

Ah yes! I remember now. I found it strange that he resented Abbie for her close relationship with his father, but not Jenny, who had an even closer one.

 

Some people do like the other characters, want to see more of them, not just Abbie.

Huh?

 

In terms of the role Joe will play, looks like he will team up with Jenny, do some jobs to help out Ichabbie, and they also are going to explore their relationship some more. If you remember in the episode he appeared in, there was a brief scene were you could immediately tell that Jenny and Joe were really close friends. This is what should have happened last season, so this is good.

I hope that doesn't mean a romance. Isn't he quite a few years younger than Jenny? Abbie babysat him after all and Jenny is just one year younger than Abbie.

[catrox14]

 

It's not controversial. What it is, is sacrifice. We have to sacrifice seeing how Crane and Abbie deal with the aftermath, in order to not listen to Crane mourn and wail over the wife. Tom Mison is a fantastic actor and would sell it to death - but I personally cannot take one more mention of that useless individual. That is how much season 2 turned me against She Who Must Not Be Named.

 

 

Ichabble was sacrificed enough last season and it's still being sacrificed because of Katrina. I would rather they have addressed it head on. I do feel a little taken aback by the vitriol towards my comment. Maybe its humor that I'm not getting. It's not as though I want to hear all about Katrina. If you read my previous comments you'll see I was not a Katrina fan like at all.

 

They can't just pretend like Katrina and Son never happened even with the time jump. It has to be addressed even with some dialogue which they could have done without the time jump.

 

This isn't about Katrina and Crane. It's about why would Ichabbie decide to separate after they just made a commitment to being Team Witness again at the end of s2. That's a pretty big change.

 

What about the year missing for both of them? I would fully expect to have some flashbacks or dialogue to explain what Ichabod was doing during that time that Abbie was at Quantico.  My issue with Abbie going back Quantico and not seeing her decision making process is that she decided that being a Witness was less important than being FBI  when it started out that she was willing to sacrifice being an FBI agent for Corbin and Sleepy Hollow. She didn't only stay behind for Ichabod. She stayed because she was a witness and was saving her sister. 

 

Now, what they could do is tell me that Abbie made a decision that becoming an agent would make her Mulder to Ichabod's Scully and she uses that for Sleepy Hollow mystery reasons and that would be fine. But I'm still opposed to having lost some important relationship stuff between Ichabod and Abbie.  

 

I just have to say, it feels like now if there is any disagreement with the stuff coming out it's being construed that it's being anti-show and that's flat out untrue. I am leery because of being burned so hard last season.

[Aoife]

I think Joe Corbin was one of the more likeable (be it forgettable) side characters in the mess that was season two. And Zach Appelman is cute.

 

I'm guessing Jenny hasn't caught up with Hawley in finding the evil stepmother?

 

They left season 2 pretty open ended by just nearly having them walk off into the sunset, so bring on FBI Abbie. I thought the FBI dream is one of those neglected plot holes which has not featured much since the pilot episode. I also doubt that a separation would have harmed Crane much. He very much needs to be independent in this new world. If only to prove to himself that he can. The whole earning wages debacle comes to mind. I also doubt that his wonder about newfangled things will be cute anymore circa season 5 (if you know, they make it through this one...). 

 

Maybe the supernatural stuff (not Troubles, wrong show, bad Aoife) died down significantly for her to decide to go? Which leads to my next point:

 

So if Abbie is FBI, can she pull rank (and other benefits) on Reyes or whoever run Sleepy Hollow PD nowadays?

[kieyra]

 

They can't just pretend like Katrina and Son never happened even with the time jump. It has to be addressed even with some dialogue which they could have done without the time jump.

 

Respectfully (really), what precisely are you hoping to see that you think they'll skip? I think most of us are picturing a way to not have to listen to Ichabod talk about Katrina some more, and blame himself and blame Abbie or whatever tropey melodrama could be mined from it. If you think the new writers have the finesse to handle that in such a way that isn't as uninteresting as it sounds, then I give you full credit for being more optimistic than I am. But grieving is a  long process, and several months of MopeyIchabod is something I'm okay with not watching. Meanwhile, if they have him snap out of it a week later, it looks too hand-wavey. 

 

By the by, no one is attacking you--it's just a difference of opinions. God knows I don't have enough street cred in this particular forum for you to care much what I think anyway. :) 

Edited August 3, 2015 by kieyra

[cynic]

I'm curious how they're going to pull off Crane's involvement in the cases of the week with Abbie in the FBI. It was one thing when Crane was somewhat acting as a "consultant" to the local PD with or without Irving's permission. It seems like it would be more difficult (as well as redundant) for them to try to go down the same road with the FBI. I thought it was a mistake to take them out of the realm of the PD and isolate them, so I hope they do figure out a way to keep Crane in the loop with Abbie's work in an organic way.

As for the time jump, I can see both sides. Yeah, it's probably the only way to avoid the mess of dealing with Crane's mourning in the aftermath of Katrina's death. Oh the other hand, it does seem kinda weird that Abbie and Crane would separate so long willingly and that things in Sleepy Hollow would be quiet enough for a year to allow them to do it (until Pandora sweeps in and messes that up I guess). I suppose that it does allow Crane to grow more independence and get used to the world, but considering one of my favorite parts of the show is watching him to just that, I'm kinda sad to miss so much of his evolution. Also, it will probably have some ramifications on Crane and Abbie's relationship where we might be seeing them find their way back to each other as opposed to showcasing their tight bond right off the bat, which is my other favorite part of the show. So, yeah, I can get logically why they're doing the time jump and I'm totally willing to see how they go about this, but I can't say that I find the news thrilling. It's just another reason why I wish they had gone with the whole, "Katrina was evil all along and was messing with Crane" route in fixing last season. Not only would it have been more organic to what we had seen before, but it would have been much easier to extricate the show from, since the emotional fallout would have been far different for Crane.

And boo to losing Headless. He was iconic. Effin' Goffman screwed this show so much.

[DJG1122]

You mean effin' GOOBER?

[phoenics]

http://www.tvguide.com/news/mega-buzz-sleepy-hollow-spoilers-headless-joe-corbin/

 

So, Headless is officially out as well.

How do you guys feel about that?

While I am disappointed, I am only mildly shocked. Abraham is just another casualty of Crane Family Drama. Tying the Horseman of Death to Crane and his wife was a mistake and everything having anything to do with that is being purged and rightfully so.

There was no way to bring back Headless without bringing back Abraham and then that would lead to what no one wants, more talk of Katrina and Headless possibly continuing on with his vendetta to avenge Katrina’s death at the hands of Crane.

When S2 started and began falling into the abyss of Katrina, I was actually okay with this idea - with Abraham losing his humanity completely and just being about vengeance with Ichabod. I just wanted BAMF Headless back. But after the season dragged on and on, and after realizing what you just said - which is that Abraham is too closely tied to the foolishness that destroyed this show - I agree.

I'm EXCITED about Joe Corbin joining the show - that's awesome. I have a feeling Joe and Jenny will be shown to have a "past". As long as Abbie isn't dragged into a triangle with them - GOOD!

And Abbie as an FBI agent?!?! Yeah! I wonder if they are going for some kind of Supernatural Bones - I kinda hope it's not that - Sleepy Hollow is too kooky for formula, imo. And I don't see how Abbie will be able to involve Ichabod in FBI business.

Maybe there will be a special projects division?

Happy to see Abbie realize her dream, but that seems odd to me - that she was able to leave for a whole year without Ichabod. Doesn't seem right.

While the image of the Headless Horseman is very much ingrained in Sleepy Hollow and the show version, with the right storyline, the show can survive without it. I was also hoping they'd abandon the whole founding fathers theme, but given that we're getting a sexy Betsy Ross, I doubt that will open. Out with the OLD and in with the NEW I say. The show needed to be revamped and they're doing just that.

This is true - but I don't understand how you bring in sexy Betsy Ross and all of the Founding Fathers stuff when THAT was inextricably tied up into the whole Four Horseman thing. Unless they are about to "Buffy-tize" it and just have every kind of apocalypse from every kind of religion there is.

I mean - okay - but I guess part of what made SH special was that they had the biblical aspect - which most shows tend to drop. The stuff from other religions feels like it's been done already.

But I'm intrigued, so...

[phoenics]

The Crane family drama did so much damage to the series unfortunately.  That said, the new characters don't sound as interesting like say 'sexy' Betsy Ross.

"Sexy Betsy Ross" doesn't sound interesting at all.

But Joe Corbin isn't "new", unless you're speaking of the real new characters, Pandora and Daniel.

Yes he was/is. Some people do like the other characters, want to see more of them, not just Abbie.

Did I miss something? This is the second comment you've made about this and I'm trying to figure out where it's coming from.

Most fans aren't saying they DON'T want to see Ichabod - just that they want Abbie to have a story that drives the show too - she's important too. Previously, everything felt like it was tied just to Ichabod, to the point where it felt like Abbie was being relegated to being some kind of sidekick rather than the actual co-lead. So I really don't understand what's going on with your comment.

What's wrong?

Edited August 3, 2015 by phoenics

[Free]

But Joe Corbin isn't "new", unless you're speaking of the real new characters, Pandora and Daniel.

 

That's exactly who I'm talking about.

 

As for Joe, he's ok, he only had 1 episode so I'm neutral about his return.

[Indi]

Happy to see Abbie realize her dream, but that seems odd to me - that she was able to leave for a whole year without Ichabod. Doesn't seem right.

I don't think that's so odd. In fact, it's very in character of her to move on. She broke her relationship with sexy Luke, when she decided to go to Quantico. Leaving a guy, who wasn't a good friend or partner seems a logical step for her. That doesn't mean she didn't keep in contact with him though.

[orza]

Joe Corbin was a good one-off character, but not real memorable. Bringing back Joe Corbin is interesting because it opens the door to bringing back Sheriff Corbin in flashbacks, which is perhaps the main reason for adding Joe. An appearance by Clancy Brown makes any episode better and they will need all the help they can get next season.

[netlyon2]

I am disappointed to lose Headless/Abraham, though.  He was a big part of the premise and they really screwed up any potential he had.  But on the other hand, I get that the writers don't know what to do with him now, because he's basically lost his motivation to be there.  Moloch is gone, Henry is gone, Katrina is gone.  There's nothing left for Abraham in Sleepy Hollow. 

 

But I do hope they actually say what happened to Headless rather than just pretending he didn't exist, like the Kindred.  That still irks me.

You know, your post just sparked a thought for me.  I'd just been pondering how I don't think we saw Headless in the back half of Season 2, after Moloch was shanked by his sketchy foster son.  When we see Henry, he's clearly using witchcraft, but doesn't have his suit of armor.  It's not until the penultimate episode that Ichabod realizes that Henry is no longer War.

 

Forgive me if this has already been discussed, but does that give us our explanation of Dear Headless' fate?  If Moloch's death caused Henry to revert to being a powerful, but mortal, witch, then did Headless revert to the human, but headless, Abraham?  In other words, d-e-d, dead?

 

That being said, I think there's an out for resurrecting Headless; actually, I can think of a couple of ways.  If they return to the Moloch/Apocalypse storyline, then the Horseman of Death can be replaced (and eventually beheaded).  He'd need a different wardrobe, of course, but a billowing black cloak could take care of that.  Don't want Moloch?  Fine, whoever the Big Bad is might resurrect Headless Abraham to screw with Team Witness.  [C'mon, show, give me something!]

 

This is true - but I don't understand how you bring in sexy Betsy Ross and all of the Founding Fathers stuff when THAT was inextricably tied up into the whole Four Horseman thing. Unless they are about to "Buffy-tize" it and just have every kind of apocalypse from every kind of religion there is.

I mean - okay - but I guess part of what made SH special was that they had the biblical aspect - which most shows tend to drop. The stuff from other religions feels like it's been done already.

But I'm intrigued, so...

The Pandora character does seem to imply that they're exploring different mythologies.  Then again, a gorgon was guarding that biblical sword, so who knows?  It would be a shame to see the show stray from the original apocalyptic premise, especially with the bit of decent worldbuilding they were able to add in Season 2.  Besides the Fenestella, Franklin's comment about the large network of agents/fighters opened a doorway that I really hope they enter.

[catrox14]

Respectfully (really), what precisely are you hoping to see that you think they'll skip? I think most of us are picturing a way to not have to listen to Ichabod talk about Katrina some more, and blame himself and blame Abbie or whatever tropey melodrama could be mined from it. If you think the new writers have the finesse to handle that in such a way that isn't as uninteresting as it sounds, then I give you full credit for being more optimistic than I am. But grieving is a  long process, and several months of MopeyIchabod is something I'm okay with not watching. Meanwhile, if they have him snap out of it a week later, it looks too hand-wavey. 

 

By the by, no one is attacking you--it's just a difference of opinions. God knows I don't have enough street cred in this particular forum for you to care much what I think anyway. :)

 

I'm curious about why there is a firm perception that it would be unending Crane manpain (which FTR I really do dislike that term. It's so reductive to male characters having any emotions about things. JMHO) 

 

Ichabod may not have that long of a grieving period considering his marriage went to shit long before he killed the woman that was going to kill his partner, Abbie.  Ichabod was driven by guilt and duty more than love for Katrina. I think Ichabod might feel guilty if he didn't mean to actually kill Katrina, but I thought he intended to kill her to save Abbie so I really think he won't feel all that guilty about it myself. 

 

IMO they could have easily written something that showed that Ichabod realized he wasn't really in love with Katrina or he just thought he was and wanted to keep to his vows because 18th century transplant and all that.  I would like to have seen Abbie and Ichabod have a conversation about why they are choosing to separate because IMO that separation is a big deal. I want that conversation and that time to show me that the show will be once more about Ichabod and Abbie as Team Witness partners.

 

But apparently that's not going to be something we get to see other than in flashback or through dialogue. And no, none of this has to do with not wanting Abbie to be FBI I just would like to have seen the journey to her making that choice.

 

The rest of the stuff I covered in my other two posts so I don't want to be redundant. But if anyone would like clarification about something I wrote I'll be happy to do so.

 

Also, I didn't feel personally attacked. I felt like the notion of not being 100% on board with the new direction is tantamount to not wanting the show to succeed and that's not the case.

[phoenics]

The Pandora character does seem to imply that they're exploring different mythologies.  Then again, a gorgon was guarding that biblical sword, so who knows?  It would be a shame to see the show stray from the original apocalyptic premise, especially with the bit of decent worldbuilding they were able to add in Season 2.  Besides the Fenestella, Franklin's comment about the large network of agents/fighters opened a doorway that I really hope they enter.

Well, if they could figure out how to bring back the Masons, that would help. The Masons (which many Founding Fathers were) weren't "Christian" per se, but more Deists - meaning, you had to believe in a higher being to be admitted into the brotherhood. So I could see that there could be many mythologies they could explore - I just hope they manage to still tie in biblical ones.

What's so fascinating for me (as a Christian) is that the whole Sleepy Hollow stuff actually comes from the Bible - so there is some "realness" to it for me, since it's from my faith. We don't get that much here for some reason in the US, lol.

Plus, if they move away from the biblical stuff, "witness" loses something.

[Free]

I'm curious about why there is a firm perception that it would be unending Crane manpain (which FTR I really do dislike that term. It's so reductive to male characters having any emotions about things. JMHO)

 

It's because of S2's increased focus on the Crane family drama that many people are sick of it.

 

Also, I didn't feel personally attacked. I felt like the notion of not being 100% on board with the new direction is tantamount to not wanting the show to succeed and that's not the case.

 

That said, ITA with this.

[phoenics]

I'm curious about why there is a firm perception that it would be unending Crane manpain (which FTR I really do dislike that term. It's so reductive to male characters having any emotions about things. JMHO) 

 

Ichabod may not have that long of a grieving period considering his marriage went to shit long before he killed the woman that was going to kill his partner, Abbie.  Ichabod was driven by guilt and duty more than love for Katrina. I think Ichabod might feel guilty if he didn't mean to actually kill Katrina, but I thought he intended to kill her to save Abbie so I really think he won't feel all that guilty about it myself. 

 

IMO they could have easily written something that showed that Ichabod realized he wasn't really in love with Katrina or he just thought he was and wanted to keep to his vows because 18th century transplant and all that.  I would like to have seen Abbie and Ichabod have a conversation about why they are choosing to separate because IMO that separation is a big deal. I want that conversation and that time to show me that the show will be once more about Ichabod and Abbie as Team Witness partners.

 

But apparently that's not going to be something we get to see other than in flashback or through dialogue. And no, none of this has to do with not wanting Abbie to be FBI I just would like to have seen the journey to her making that choice.

 

The rest of the stuff I covered in my other two posts so I don't want to be redundant. But if anyone would like clarification about something I wrote I'll be happy to do so.

 

Also, I didn't feel personally attacked. I felt like the notion of not being 100% on board with the new direction is tantamount to not wanting the show to succeed and that's not the case.

I wouldn't mind horribly seeing any Abbie/Ichabod scenes where we find out how Ichabod took Abbie leaving... or how Jenny felt about it... I have a feeling Abbie being gone is how Jenny/Joe get linked up.

I do think we are losing that dynamic of the Witness connection in terms of how they deal with separation - but eh...

I'm going to try to wait and see. I remember last season all of the reviews praised the S2 premiere for faking us out on the time jump - but maybe this will be different. At the end of S1, we were still in the action and it was a cliff hanger. S2 didn't have a cliff hanger, so there's no need to NOT do a time jump.

And I think the new showrunner wants a chance to distance himself from the mess that was S2 - and maybe some elements of S1 as well (though clearly not all). I'm going to try to give it a chance. But I'm watching them on the SBR mess (I'm still salty about that).

I do wonder what Ichabod has been doing since Abbie left though... pining? I'd imagine he's going to be fairly lonely without her there... and I don't want him to become too independent - his banter with Abbie about his disgust with modern day things makes this show, lol. That moment with the cell phone? Classic.

[blixie]

I didn't care for either Joe Corbin the character nor the actor who portrayed him, but I like that they are giving Jenny a potentially bad ass partner (he was a soldier right?) and someone who knows the ins and outs of artifacts/supernatural, and I am glad there is time jump so we don't have to witness Ichabod's mourning, I think a year is a bit much but if it gets Abbie into the FBI I guess it's alright, but I hate the idea they've been separated, I have to imagine someone like Ichabod has installed himself at University somewhere as teacher so he could further acclimate to the new century he lives in. I would love to see Ichabod at college. Heh.

[HalcyonDays]

Maybe there will be a special projects division?

 

The SH-X Files?? Does Abbie get an office in the basement?

 

...but I guess part of what made SH special was that they had the biblical aspect - which most shows tend to drop.

 

Actually, this comment reminds me of the Indiana Jones series. The movies that focused on biblical artifacts and legends (Raiders of the Lost Ark and Last Crusade) were the best movies. The Crystal Skull and Temple of Doom were not good at all (to me). Also, the villian for the good movies were the Nazi's, so a true global evil. Same applies with this show.

 

Did I miss something? This is the second comment you've made about this and I'm trying to figure out where it's coming from. <snip>

Most fans aren't saying they DON'T want to see Ichabod - just that they want Abbie to have a story that drives the show too - she's important too.

 

Absolutely. And no you didn't miss anything. My apologies if I offended. Long story but yesterday was my birthday and I was irritable as fuck when I wrote that. Also, just tired and this whole SH mess is tiring also for all of us.

 

Thing is, I know that Indi (amongst others) hates Crane with the power of 1000 suns. Of course I hate Katrina now with that same force. But I actually like the character of Crane and the actor himself. Mison did such a good job convincing me that Crane is a selfish ass season 2 that I got annoyed with him. But Sleepy Hollow is not the Abbie show. Except these are the comments I keep hearing over and over (not just here). SH is also not the Crane show. I know that too but just as you mentioned, season 2 was just that which was not right. But knowing Abbie is Agent Mills now is interesting and exciting to me.

 

I guess because I love Crane (and Mison), I get tired of seeing so much vitriol against the character (though deservedly). And you guys know I love Abbie and Jenny also and want to see good storytelling and character arcs for all. But Crane is a major part of the show too. And I will be honest. I am tired of the term co-lead. I have never heard any other show refer to the main actors/actresses use this terminology.

 

It's Lead. Leads of the show. Gillian Anderson and David Duchovny (to use another amazing pairing) are the leads of a show called The X-Files. Nicole Beharie and Tom Mison are the leads of a show called Sleepy Hollow. The pronoun co - in my view - diminishes the value. Like a co-chairman may imply that you need another person to manage, because one person isn't capable of it. You take away power from Beharie, by implying that she is not worthy of full lead - only half (co).

 

I would like to see acknowledgement that the PAIRING of Crane and Abbie is what makes the show, but at times it doesn't seem like it. I want to see a show with both of them working together as a team doing their thing and supporting each other no matter what. That is my show. Season 2 went away from that, I have hope for season 3.

 

However - the time jump. I would have LOVED to have seen the aftermath of the battle. How it impacted Abbie and Jenny. We know Crane is going to mourn as he should, but Goffman tainted Crane so much with his own K-love that honestly - I don't want to see it. I would love to see/hear mention of Abbie taking her entrance exam and her excitement at getting in. See some of the training and her graduation. (Thinking of the opening scene in Silence of the Lambs).

 

But it is as I said - a balance. You cannot show one (Crane mourning) without the other (Abbie deciding on Quantico). Only because timing. She must have gone off to Quantico fairly soon after everything happened. We will find out. And I do think there are going to be flashbacks. There has to. But no one wants to see Crane mourn because season 2 was enough, even for the actor himself. Hence - required time jump.

 

I really do think we will see Abbie making that decision, leaving and some impact after. But not a full episode worth. Just flashbacks.

[catrox14]

 

. And I do think there are going to be flashbacks. There has to. But no one wants to see Crane mourn because season 2 was enough, even for the actor himself. Hence - required time jump.

 

 

Re more on my time jump oppostion to add on to my previous comments.

 

That is only ONE writing choice for Ichabod, though.

 

The new showrunner et al, had the chance to really 100% put the nail in the Katrina coffin by showing Ichabod and Abbie regrouping TOGETHER immediately afterward. No time for mourning. Maybe even a look at Ichabod actively NOT mourning Katrina because he's realized that is pointless.  Other shows did time jumps to actually further the plots of the show i.e. LOST and BSG and not to avoid a mess they made.  And just to beat that dead horse, it actively separated Ichabbie AGAIN after such a huge thing they went through together.

 

I guess I see it this way. For me, the loyal avid viewer who spouted how great Sleepy Hollow was to the entire universe that would listen, because Ichabbie and Headless and John Cho and James Frain reasons; who still sat through s2 hoping for better, (etc, etc, ) I would have viewed them showing Abbie and Ichabod together right after everything as an apology for fucking up s2 so badly and nearly destroying the show.

Edited August 4, 2015 by catrox14

[Criminey]

I like the time jump. The show needs to make a strong statement from the start to minimize the nonsense of S2. Nonsense that is still in everyone's mind. Doesn't mean they can't have some back story to include Abbie's journey to Quantico. Even Ichabod's sorrow about his family in a very brief way (Imo).

This show is nothing without both Witnesses. Tom Mison is terrific as Ichabod Crane. Nicole Beharie is brilliant as Abigail Mills. If either one of them were not there I would not watch the show.

Also, this show cannot write for every individual fan. What a chaotic mess that would be. Hopefully the producers, writers and Show Runner will take the best path forward to make the show as wonderful as it was in S1.

This is one of the few shows of this genre I've watched consistently. I quit on Lost, Fringe, The Leftovers. And I'm about to stop watching Whispers. But loved Forever. (Uhmm, I'm not sure the genre is the same for these show; but they aren't the same as the shows on the Food Channel and HGTV ;)). So it may be that I don't know how these types of shows normally run.

Here's my one demand though, lol. Please make Ichabod a combination of modern day Ichabod and Captain Crane with emphasis on the Captain.

[jhlipton]

I wouldn't mind about 15 minutes or so to to set the stage and wrap things up, then "ONE YEAR LATER" to begin the show.  But no more than 15 minutes -- I want them to move on.

 

I'm in favor of multiple mythologies.  Done right, they could explore mythologies not often seen -- Inuit, Maori, Nigerian, etc.

 

(Too bad Quantico is on CBS -- that would have worked as a cross-over!)

[Watermelon]

I don't think that's so odd. In fact, it's very in character of her to move on. She broke her relationship with sexy Luke, when she decided to go to Quantico. Leaving a guy, who wasn't a good friend or partner seems a logical step for her. That doesn't mean she didn't keep in contact with him though.

Abbie doesn't see Crane that way though, especially not after he killed his wife(terrible as she was) to save her.  

 

They will definitely have to explain how she decided Sleepy Hollow was safe enough to leave after all they've been through.  

[j5cochran]

Abbie doesn't see Crane that way though, especially not after he killed his wife(terrible as she was) to save her.  

 

They will definitely have to explain how she decided Sleepy Hollow was safe enough to leave after all they've been through.  

 

I would also like an explanation of how Crane survives the year that Abby is at Quantico.  What is he doing? Does he get a job, or is Abby sending him funds?  How does he stay out of trouble with his chronological challenges? Is he still staying at Sheriff Corbin's cabin? Inquiring minds want to know!