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maraleia

By maraleia
in Sleepy Hollow [V]

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jenrising
jenrising
cynic
cynic

Oh, I have no doubt that Beharie wanted to leave. My issue is the laying of blame at Beharie for wanting to leave without considering why she wanted to leave. It was pretty clear two and a half years

Badsamaritan
Badsamaritan

I don't believe a word from FOX. Look how they treated Orlando Jones, by far their biggest cheerleader. And the fact that he has still been supporting Nicole tells me he knows what the fuck really hap

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jhlipton

jhlipton

There's a place for us,
Somewhere a place for us.
Peace and quiet and open air
Wait for us
Somewhere.

There's a time for us,
Some day a time for us,
Time together with time spare,
Time to learn, time to care,
Some day!

Somewhere.
We'll find a new way of living,
We'll find a way of forgiving (just not Goffman or Winters!)
Somewhere . . .

There's a place for us,
A time and place for us.
Hold my hand and we're halfway there.
Hold my hand and I'll take you there
Somehow,
Some day,
Somewhere!

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CocoaGoddess

CocoaGoddess

(edited)

I was saying elsewhere that here and the Sleepy Hollow Twitter/Tumblr fandom are more entertaining than the actual show most of the time. Definitely the funniest and most dedicated fanbase I've ever been part of, and I'm proud that our passion for the show and the characters isn't rooted in insanity. I'm proud to be part of it and Fox should be HONORED that we all care enough to be so outspoken and passionate about the show. 

Edited by CocoaGoddess
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Indi

Indi

Sadie Gennis said we'll know Monday.

 

 

And completely off topic:

 

Kimberella, Indi, Pcta and especially Phoenics-I've learned a lot from all of you. Thanks

 

I feel the same about you all. Whatever the show has become, I love reading the smart and entertaining discussion happening here.

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DeLurker

DeLurker

(edited)

Oh Lord - I just had a bit of a heart palpitation at the thought of not posting with you guys anymore.

I became addicted to The Utopia boards last fall. Most of us stopped watching a few eps in because it was such crap, but we were obsessive about the recaps that others would provide.

SH would have led me to shoot my tv several months ago if not for y'all.

And that cued If Not for You playing in my head (Olivia Newton John's cover, not the Bob Dylan original).

Edited by DeLurker
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CocoaGoddess

CocoaGoddess

Check this out peeps http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/news/tv-pilot-seasons-big-get-772331

Maybe the Sleepy Hollow showrunners will finally get it and return the show to it's bonkers awesome first season which just happened to focus on more POC's than white characters.

 

There's something to be said for being trendsetters. Other networks/shows are embracing diversity, while Goffman and company are running away from theirs. THEY ALREADY HAD IT. 

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TV Juriste

TV Juriste

(edited)

I was saying elsewhere that here and the Sleepy Hollow Twitter/Tumblr fandom are more entertaining than the actual show most of the time. Definitely the funniest and most dedicated fanbase I've ever been part of, and I'm proud that our passion for the show and the characters isn't rooted in insanity. I'm proud to be part of it and Fox should be HONORED that we all care enough to be so outspoken and passionate about the show. 

Totally Agree!! 

 

I didn't get my recap of the Calvin episode done because of work that pays . . . :D 

 

BUT, Monday's recap will be posted Monday night because - hurray - Fox released it in advance. And, who's the loser who watched Sleepy Hollow on Valentine's evening . . . -->TVJuriste. Time well spent! 

 

Anyway, we can see (thank God) that the writers are setting up an etch-a-sketch of Season 2. The episode Monday night really feels like a two part finale. . . and my fingers are crossed fans will love it, ratings will be high and we'll get a season 3 that emphasizes the show's strongest elements.

 

It ain't over yet, fellow Sleepy Heads! 

Edited by TV Juriste
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HalcyonDays

HalcyonDays

Anyway, we can see (thank God) that the writers are setting up an etch-a-sketch of Season 2. The episode Monday night really feels like a two part finale. . . and my fingers are crossed fans will love it, ratings will be high and we'll get a season 3 that emphasizes the show's strongest elements.

 

Ack!! Why do I have to wait....*whines....*

 

So the question is....did YOU like it, TV J??? Question 2: from what you saw, if there is a season 3, would you be excited or at least back for it, based on what you viewed??  Inquiring minds want to know!

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TV Juriste

TV Juriste

(edited)

Ack!! Why do I have to wait....*whines....*

 

So the question is....did YOU like it, TV J??? Question 2: from what you saw, if there is a season 3, would you be excited or at least back for it, based on what you viewed??  Inquiring minds want to know!

Yes and Yes!

 

There's an interesting element to the battle between the witnesses and their foes in this episode, which I'll discuss in my review. I found myself, as a substantive matter, agreeing with the witnesses' foes (but not their tactics). However, I don't know if the writers are thoughtful enough to know why that would be the case.

 

I definitely can tell the writers lurk on these boards and read recaps. . . In all these recent episodes, you can hear them addressing things we picked up on last Fall. There's even a reference to the "man out of time" trope. 

 

My fingers are crossed we'll get folks on the SH writing team in season 3 who liked season 1 and want to build an engaging serialized supernatural show with a rich mythology. The only thing that will make me abandon the show in season 3 would be if it becomes a monster-of-the-week procedural. 

 

On a related point - thank you to whoever posted the Hollywood Reporter article about diversity being the hot trend this pilot season. A few weeks ago on the TVJ Facebook page, I posted a similar article and said "Black is the New Black this pilot season." But, that's not quite right. In the entertainment industry, the only color anyone ever cares about is green! 

Edited by TV Juriste
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HalcyonDays

HalcyonDays

There's an interesting element to the battle between the witnesses and their foes in this episode, which I'll discuss in my review. I found myself, as a substantive matter, agreeing with the witnesses' foes (but not their tactics). However, I don't know if the writers are thoughtful enough to know why that would be the case.

 

I definitely can tell the writers lurk on these boards and read recaps. . . In all these recent episodes, you can hear them addressing things we picked up on last Fall. There's even a reference to the "man out of time" trope.

 

Sounds really good! Hmm...Well, I'm looking forward to Monday! Yes!

 

As for them reading these boards - can you imagine?? They really should though. Everyone one of the threads here should be printed out and sent to them to read and understand, for them to right the ship, so to speak. Because everything written here reflects exactly what I've read "out there' in terms of what went wrong with the show.

 

That guy on SpoilerTV just posted his advanced preview of the episode. Somewhat vague but also OMG!! I can tell that's he's a bit off in his writing because of Katrina and what he says...ah, poor baby. BTW, what he writes about her makes me happy, which is why he's not happy. Good.

 

But damn, this is the episode with the:

major character death. Then we already know who it will most likely be. Based on the last episode, the death can't be anyone else than Henry

Again, good!!

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Indi

Indi

Is it just me or does that sound like more Crane Family Drama and way too much Katrina? If the way they respond to the criticism about too much screentime for the Cranes is by doubling down on their story for the finale, I don't even know what to say!

 

The death could be Jenny or Irving.

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pcta

pcta

(edited)

Sounds like they will keep Katrina alive. She is the only death I am interested in. Noble is a far better actor and so should survive. Jenny and Irving are just not acceptable. Even Headless/Abraham is more worthy of survival

Nevertheless, I'll give the episode a try.

Edited by pcta
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phoenics

phoenics

Sounds really good! Hmm...Well, I'm looking forward to Monday! Yes!

 

As for them reading these boards - can you imagine?? They really should though. Everyone one of the threads here should be printed out and sent to them to read and understand, for them to right the ship, so to speak. Because everything written here reflects exactly what I've read "out there' in terms of what went wrong with the show.

 

That guy on SpoilerTV just posted his advanced preview of the episode. Somewhat vague but also OMG!! I can tell that's he's a bit off in his writing because of Katrina and what he says...ah, poor baby. BTW, what he writes about her makes me happy, which is why he's not happy. Good.

 

But damn, this is the episode with the:

major character death. Then we already know who it will most likely be. Based on the last episode, the death can't be anyone else than Henry

Again, good!!

He does sound totally put out - he's still trying to pimp HARD for Katrina, but I notice he added a lot of Ichabbie stuff in there (just saying they're together nearly the whole episode)... I couldn't be happier at his upset after the preview he gave for Spellcaster.

I also think someone at FOX or SH gave him a nudge to stop the Katrina focus at the expense of what's happening on the show - because I'm certain his review made a lot of folks sit that episode out and possibly skip out on the rest of the season.

Sounds like they will keep Katrina alive. She is the only death I am interested in. Noble is a far better actor and so should survive. Jenny and Irving are just not acceptable. Even Headless/Abraham is more worthy of survival

Nevertheless, I'll give the episode a try.

Same here and I had the same hope you did...

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phoenics

phoenics

Entertainment Weekly Fandom Friday: Good Katrina or Evil Katrina on 'Sleepy Hollow'?

 

Comparison of the different "camps" who either prefer good Katrina, evil Katrina or no Katrina at all.

 

It's a very good article which some really good points for all sides. Poll at the bottom speaks truths. And it makes me HOWL with laughter.

 

7 things to Know about Episode 2.17 - Awakening.

I just howled when I got to the poll - and the article was pretty funny too. Okay, actually I coughed up a lung because I'm sick, lol. But I got a few good laughs in... Off to read the 7 things article now.

*still laughing/coughing*

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phoenics

phoenics

I'm anxious now about who dies... the show really NEEDS to kill off Katrina - but somehow I don't believe they'll do it. That upsets me. You'd think they'd try to do whatever necessary to bring back fans who left - killing Katrina off sends a clear message to fans that they're committed to going back to S1 style...

I think I know who dies. I think Frank kills Jenny. What would piss me off about this is that if they kill Jenny off like what was hinted in the season premiere, then Katrina by all rights needs to die. IF they kill off Jenny and keep Katrina that will cause an even bigger blowup than when they "killed" Frank. That won't make folks come back - that will make many stay away, fearing that they are getting rid of a minority character everyone loved and keeping the non-minority character who sucked up most of her screen time that people HATE.

Why was there no option for Dead Katrina?


I think that was the get her out of here option.

At this point, I feel like they aren't going to kill her off - they seem to be rebelling against what most of the fandom wants.

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jhlipton

jhlipton

The fans in the “No Katrina” camp would just like to see her gone, whether that means she’s killed, gets sucked back into Purgatory, whatever. As long as she’s not there mucking things up with her non-witchiness.

Killed is explicitly part of "get her out of here".  And 86% agree, she should be gone.

 

Wish I could read the comments.

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WearyTraveler

WearyTraveler

The 7 things article says that the death evens out the playing field.

 

Given the past episode where Frank told Jenny he was basically becoming evil and Katrina had that ominous dream sequence, I'm thinking Team Evil will have: Henry, Headless, Frank and Katrina;  while Team Witness will have: Ichabod, Abbie and Jenny.  So, my guess is that someone from Team Evil dies.

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catrox14

catrox14

 

What do you think of the idea of Ichabod and Abbie getting together?

Winter: Um... I don't think that's ever been the plan. But I do see why people like them together. Their chemistry is great and the way the characters are written, it's really cool. I'm all for Abbie in that sense. People want them to get together romantically, [but] it would be a whole other show. Keeping Ichabbie for what it is now is great. And then whether Katrina will still exist or not, that's another question. But yeah, I'm all Ichabbie. I think they're definitely a good team. That's why they've had so many issues also, because Katrina is not Ichabod's partner in that sense anymore.

 

LOL. Okay Katia.  Just stop talking about Ichabbie.  IMO she's really coming across as being jealous of the popularity of Ichabbie . I'm sure she sees that as threat to her existence on the show because right now her only real purpose is as the sole love interest to Ichabod.  I see your shade Katia. 

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BestestAuntEver

BestestAuntEver

TV Guide's interview with Katia Winter.

Well, she's definately salty...(is that the term for it?). I'm looking forward to everyone's responses to this one...(hoo boy...)

If anyone sees my eyeballs in that article, please give them back. They fell out while reading the crap Katia was shoveling.

Katia is definitely salty about Katrina's lack of popularity and jealous of Ichabbie.

I'm still taken aback that she and Goffman seem to think that if we learn juat a little more about Katrina then we will love her.

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TwistedandBored

TwistedandBored

From The Interview...
 

she, for the first time, will take a stand in Episode 17

 

 

 

This is literally what she has been doing for the best 16 episodes. Everything she wanted...she got.

 

I think she finally finds a purpose and somebody that's completely and utterly on her side.

 

 

 

Didn't the writers sacrifice Ichabod's character and his witness relationship with Abbie by having him side with her every time. He literally took a chance on the apocalypse happening by following her words. Thank god Moloch was a horrible father to Henry otherwise Sleepy Hollow and the world would have been toast by now. 

 


Why do you think fans have had such a hard time connecting to and rooting for Katrina?

Winter: Because Katrina wasn't really established in Season 1.

And also the fact that a lot of people don't like the idea of Ichabod being with someone else other than Abbie.

 

LMAO! I have no words for this! Just LOL

 

Why do you think fans have had such a hard time connecting to and rooting for Katrina? Winter: God, I've had a hard time at times.

 

 

Try being a fucking viewer of this show that had to sit through your limited acting/constant breathy whispering and then say that again! Seriously, have some sympathy for us having to put up with you will ya!

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archiesmom

archiesmom

TV Guide's interview with Katia Winter.

 

Well, she's definately salty...(is that the term for it?). I'm looking forward to everyone's responses to this one...(hoo boy...)

blah blah blah....Ichabbie, blah blah blah...... they'll never work as a couple . That's all I hear from her. I'm sure there are plenty of people who don't actively ship it that still think she sucks any fun out of the show. She seems bitter, which to me,  only means she's out of a job. Like I've said before, I might actually feel sorry for her if  she hadn't had so many interviews where she was so positive we would all love her, love her chemistry with Ichabod and love her powers by mid-season. Ugh.

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Amethyst

Amethyst

TVG: Is this a chance Katrina could switch sides?

Winter: Definitely. There's absolutely a chance. Good and evil, it's all a matter of perspective. Evil doesn't necessarily have to mean evil in Katrina's eyes. It's the reasoning behind it and taking a stand for something.

 

I'm really trying to be objective with this interview but the bolded part is classic Katrina.  There are absolutely shades of gray when it comes to good/evil, but we already know that she'll conveniently ignore true evil when she feels it's necessary.  What exactly is she taking a stand for? 

 

TVG: If she does align herself with Henry, how will Ichabod react?

Winter: Obviously, he feels betrayed and has been betrayed by Katrina many times. But it's her point of view. She doesn't see it that way. She's frustrated because nobody seems to understand that she did all those things for the greater good, for the bigger picture. She's not necessarily focused on these little things.

 

Yeah, little things aren't important, like those people Henry killed when he was serving Moloch.  It's not like they mattered or anything.

 

Katrina always sees things from her PoV, and no one else's.  It's not that people are unaware that she wants to do good, but Katrina is always deceiving those who can help her achieve that goal (Abbie and Ichabod) or enabling her son to further destroy and kill innocent people, and making the fight considerably harder.  Why would anyone trust her?  And Katrina never acknowledges those issues; she just wants a gold star and expects the rest to take care of itself.

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jhlipton

jhlipton

She's frustrated because nobody seems to understand that she did all those things for the greater good, for the bigger picture. She's not necessarily focused on these little things

The "greater good"???? She really is first-class dumb. "Redeeming" Henry is not the "greater good", you twit, saving the world is.  Even when she's not talking about Abbie, she comes off as a dumb-ass.

 

I'm doing the best with what I've given. I'm not in control over the story lines, so I've at times been frustrated with certain things. So I totally see why it's been difficult for fans. Because Katrina wasn't really established in Season 1.

 

Hey, twit, it's almost the end of Season 2, which focused on your character to the determent of all the others.  If people are still having trouble connecting to your character, maybe there's a bigger problem here.

 

From the comments:

Can this awful actress, her entitlement and her personal pity party just shut up and leave?

Yes, please!

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phoenics

phoenics

TV Guide's interview with Katia Winter.

 

Well, she's definately salty...(is that the term for it?). I'm looking forward to everyone's responses to this one...(hoo boy...)

Aside from being salty as h#ll about how fans wouldn't accept the Katrina character, she makes Katrina sound utterly selfish in that interview. Everything is about how Katrina is turning evil because being good "didn't work out so well for her". What in hell does that mean? And then her conflicting comments that Katrina has been doing things for the greater good - that's just not true. She's been trying to save 2 people who have done nothing but kill, maim and a destroy people of Sleepy Hollow - and getting in the way of the witnesses who are trying to stop them.

And laughing my butt off at her attempt to throw the writers under the bus - she may not have had any control over her story lines (even though we KNOW she gave her input), but we know she was excited about them... But now that she can't hide behind her "it's just the Ichabbie shippers who hate me" stuff, now she's "just doing the best with what she's been given."

Personally, I think she's been left in the past or something - trapped or unable to get back to the present... Maybe she gets burned at the stake like she should have been in the pilot.

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phoenics

phoenics

(edited)

Hahahaha. Even Katia knows Katrina is horrible. Hew other interviews at least had the sheen of delusion.

Yeah - except someone - tvguide - still has some delusion that she can be saved:

 

The actress gets candid with TVGuide.com about what it's been like to play the controversial character and admits that even she has had trouble rooting for Katrina sometimes. However, Winter also reveals there are big changes ahead that might just be what it takes to change viewers' minds.

NO! NO NO NO! See - this is why I want her dead!! DEAD DEAD DEAD! As long as Goffman has her on the show, he will do his level best to keep finding ways to shove her on us.

The crazy thing is - does Katia really think that Katrina becoming evil and finally siding with evil for whatever twisted reasons she has will make fans ROOT for her? Really? Root AGAINST the Witnesses? All season Katrina has been siding with Henry and Abraham, trying to "save" them - over and over again! No one roots for that!

You know the only "root" I'm interested in with respect to Katrina? The one she magically conjured up to kill Mary. I want an interview with THAT root.

Oooh clips!! Thanks Electric Boogaloo (one of my fave movies, btw - I have Din daa daa on my iTunes)!! I only watched a few seconds of the first one - and then decided I didn't want to be spoiled... Ichabod with the gnome made me spit up my tea it was so funny - I clicked it off then...

Happy Sleepy Hollow Monday!!!

I haven't felt like saying that since the premiere.

Wow.

Edited by phoenics
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blixie

blixie

(edited)

 

And also the fact that a lot of people don't like the idea of Ichabod being with someone else other than Abbie.

 

I my best Toya: Naaaaw, bitch...I'm done with this thirsty cow.

 

 

being good "didn't work out so well for her". What in hell does that mean?

 

Well I actually do agree with this to a point, but that requires me to agree with the idea she was EVER good when she should have been portrayed as intentionally shady, and at the least her motives (much like Irvings) should have been morally ambivalent/ambiguous. That would have given her actual agency though. Having said that assume IF she did everything she did for the greater good (but with the human belief she'd get a karmic reward/payoff), and yet all she's received in return is: being separated from her son/husband, and banished to purgatory I could totally see her being like fuck this. But again that's all dependent on the writers and the actress "establishing" her from the get go, not in episode 17 of the second season sweetie.

 

That first clip of Ichabbie, just makes me smile really hard, if only for the fact that Tom and Nikki are rocking match-y gorgeous hair, you beautiful charming babies.

Edited by blixie
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Limelight

Limelight

I loved that it only took the second question for KW to break out the, I talk to the writers, aren't I special, language she loves so much!

Winter: Great. I mean, I'd been pushing for Katrina to do more magic since Day 1 and finally, they've listened.

I also liked: "I'm all for Abbie in that sense."

Just piss off lady.

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HalcyonDays

HalcyonDays

I love you guys - I really do. You're comments are the best and so hilarious! /*wipes coffee off computer screen*/

 

I noticed too all of the focus on Ichabbie. What does that have to do with it? Okay, they have smoking chemstry and you don't with Mison. Not much she can do about it, so instead of whining about it, she could have taken this opportunity to endear herself to the fans and her coworkers and joke about it. She could have said something like "Ichabbie is amazing, isn't it? I mean, who wouldn't want to be with Nicole." or she could have joked something like "Katabbie should have happened." or whatever. Something self-depreciating but also not directly addressing the Ichabbie focus, while at the same time, like I said, coming off as nonchalant and nonpressed about it.

 

Instead, she comes off as annoyed that people didn't fall onto the feet of Ichatrina. Is it possible that she drank the Ichatrina koolaid?? It's too bad - it was a lost opportunity. It shouldn't take 17 + 13 episodes to make me like her, when I was on board with Ichabod 2 minutes into the pilot and Abbie at about time 8 minutes into the pilot. Jenny, I was on board when she first met Ichabod at Tarrytown. Irving, I think when he had that shady looking face in the pilot.

 

The thing is, Ichabbie is a barrier, but it is only a small factor. We wanted to see a character who didn't suck the life and kill the pace of every scene. When there was intimacy between her and Ichabod, cringing wasn't the reaction I should have had. Writing a character who was a complete damsel in distress, but also completely powerless doesn't help. Having her come across are incredibly selfish and self-centered didn't help either. When everyone in her vicinity gets dumbed down and makes poor decisions (Abbie excluded) - Ichabbie is not the problem.

 

All of these K. Winter interviews are making me HOPE that they are 'exit' interviews. i.e. she's killed off in the finale, so this is her final interview rounds for the show. I know, know, I can dream, can't I?

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phoenics

phoenics

Actually it feels like it's either:

1. Her exit rounds

2. The show is trying to "prove" they get that Katrina is an issue by having KW admit she is and show excitement about going dark.

The only problem is that in #2, she's being salty as hell and throwing shade at Abbie/Ichabbie fans and Ichabbie itself, so it feels like the minute the ratings tick back up, she'd be pushing for more screen time.

I can only hope that her comments about not knowing if Katrina would no longer exist means that it looks like Katrina is gone or dead at the end of the season. Maybe she hasn't heard Irving's interview that one of the characters would die and NOT come back. EVER.

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phoenics

phoenics

From that interview Katia Winter sounded like they filmed multiple cliffhanger for the season finale and she doesn't know which one Fox would go with. 

I hope it is the one where we no longer have to deal with her.

That's an interesting thought... *skips off to watch the promo again*

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DeLurker

DeLurker

A fair amount of what KW said in the TVGuide interview was the same stuff she's said since October, although "saltier" indeed.

 

I'm not a shipper of any sorts, but Katrina's problem is not the vocal Ichabbie fanbase.  Katrina's problem is poor writing, poor acting and piss poor marketing/PR of this character whether be Goffman et Co, KW or the constant propping up of the character without any supporting scenes.

 

Attention Writers:

If you get a renewal, please be aware that it is television and not tellevision.  If you claim someone is a powerful witch, you should show them doing powerful magic and not have others talk about it in the abstract to give credence to the claim.

 

Thank you

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