S02.E06: Unjaded

[ElectricBoogaloo]

When their first author is more than a handful, Liza and Kelsey worry that they might be over before they truly begin.

[Eri]

I have to say this episode was one of the greatest so far - I enjoy seeing Liza's work antics more than her relationship woes with Josh. Start episode with Josh and Liza interaction, end episode with Josh and Liza interaction. That's enough for me!

 

I will say that Diane's dinner disaster was the best part of the episode - the expression on her face as the car drove off was hilarious. I'm so glad they're giving her a side story instead of watching her pursue Charles. The trailer gave me a few laughs to look forward to :)

[dubbel zout]

That feminist dude is one of those people who's so obnoxious about the message that you want to disagree with him on that alone.

 

Diana was wearing some ENORMOUS rings this ep. I liked seeing her totally in control at work. That was great.

 

I can't look at Peter Hermann without seeing his tragic detergent commercials. Peter, why?? Mariska's making bank on L&O.

[HunterHunted]

So that was their brief attempt at the Hachette Amazon dispute. It came off so super lame when it was a big deal.

I feel like there has got to be more in store with Jade. She's immature, constantly high, messy, and public. I feel like there is no way she'll let this go. Even though it turned great for Empirical and Millenial, I'm glad that Charles chastised Kelsey and Liza. What they did was super shady and only happened because Kelsey failed to manage Jade effectively.

It's great that a guy is into Diana, but did it have to be this guy? Also Diana's sweater dress was one of the ugliest things I've ever seen on this show. It might be more horrible than truffle butter.

[dubbel zout]

only happened because Kelsey failed to manage Jade effectively

 

Jade had no intention of ever turning in pages. Her agent is as responsible for her meeting her contract as Kelsey is.

Edited February 11, 2016 by dubbel zout

[WhosThatGirl]

I hope Jade is gone for good. She wasn't really bringing anything to this show but I loved Kelsey and Liza's plan to deal with Jade not working out. 

[Julia]

Wow, Patricia Fields' knitware game is way, way off, between that hideous dress and Kelsey's awful bulky turtleneck.

I kind of like that Diana has someone she doesn't feel the need to stay sweet for. Not crazy about the fact that they did everything but castrate him to make the point that only a man who's symbolically rejecting being a man would be interested in the unfiltered version.

I really hope Jade's gone, even though it makes no sense that she would be. As much as she's going to learn that anal-expulsive behavior doesn't really work on (or pay) lawyers, the only people in this situation she can get at are Kelsey and Liza. She still has access to the internet and I'm sure her junkie friends are still available to urinate on things. But good lord is she tedious.

Edited February 11, 2016 by Julia

[ElectricBoogaloo]

Ugh, the Male Feminist author may have been more annoying than Jade. Please let that be the last we see of both of them (even though part of me wants him to come back so Diana can sleep with him instead of making puppy dog eyes at Charles).

 

Liza was stupid to lie to Charles, but I'm just glad that it led to ridding Millenial of Jade.

 

I'm fine with Josh being the hot nice boyfriend at the end of the episode. I like him better when we aren't spending the entire episode on relationship drama with him and Liza.

 

I really want to know what kind of weather was happening in New York in this episode that caused Kelsey to wear a fluffy long sleeved turtleneck sweater while Liza was running around in a sleeveless dress.

 

I am still not sold on the Maggie/Lauren relationship, but I like that Lauren immediately got offended on Maggie's behalf that Hector & Dorf were using her art as a clothing rack. I also loved that Maggie said she didn't care as long as the check cleared. It reminded me of something Nick Hornby said when asked about the changes made when his books were made into movies. He said that he knew once he accepted the money, the director and whoever wrote the screenplay had the right to make changes and that he knew that going in, so he didn't get upset about the changes. Yes, creating art is personal, but once you let it out into the world, it's not exclusively yours anymore and you can't torture yourself with what other people do with your art after they buy it. I liked that Maggie was practical about it, but I also thought it was sweet that Lauren was the one who got upset about what she perceived as Hector & Dorf not respecting her art.

[WhosThatGirl]

I agree, Josh is better when he is used less. At least for this season anyway since at the start of it when they were having Josh getting used to dating Liza now that he knew her real age, he seemed distance, it didn't make sense. Although, I did like him last episode too when Liza ate the lollipop and Josh was like, "the hell?" But he was good here last night too. Small doses, it seems works best for him. 

[ElectricBoogaloo]

And I like that now that he's accepted her real age, he isn't mocking her for having 40 year old shoulder or whatever the hell they called it. Instead, he brings it up in silly ways like at the end of the episode when he said a 26 year old massage was good for a 40 year old shoulder.

[WhosThatGirl]

Agreed. It was a much better reaction then when they were at the bar and she got all the 90s answers right and he shouted, "SHE'S 40!" to the other 20 somethings at the bar. 

 

I really do hope Jade is gone but I don't trust this show to let us be rid of her yet. I expect her to cause havoc..for some reason even though she did get all her money already and spent it all and didn't give a damn about writing a book anyways. 

Edited February 11, 2016 by WhosThatGirl

[ElectricBoogaloo]

I have a feeling that Jade will pop up at least one more time looking for revenge. This is the girl who tracked down Josh just so she could throw a drink in his face, so she isn't going to let this go (even though she totally brought the entire situation on herself by signing a book deal, spending the entire advance, and having no intention of actually writing the book). Plus you know Jade is the kind of person who makes terrible decisions and then blames others so that she can look like the victim. Hopefully she will just talk shit about them online and then Lauren will magically make it go away like she did for Charles.

[ZuluQueenOfDwarves]

I very much thought "The Male Feminist" was going to come out as a transwoman in the dinner scene. Interesting that he doesn't see any irony in shoving Diana into a cab and sending her home, clearly against her wishes.

[Hanahope]

So my fear for Kelsey and Liza is that Jade will seek 'revenge" by actually writing her book, and the anticipation built by by the leaked "first chapter" will cause the book to sell like hotcakes and make a shit ton of money for Achilles, thereby embarrassing Millenial.  Of course, it does seem like Jade wouldn't write her book without that motivation, so Kelsey/Liza are probably damned if they do, damned if they don't.

 

What is "40 year old shoulder"?  I've never heard of that.  I actually had the same problem at 40, and it was due to a torn tendon from a fall where i used my arm to break it and I actually needed surgery to repair.  So it kindof annoyed me that the doctor was all, eh, it'll go away, you're just old. 

 

I'm waiting for the male feminist author to admit he wants to transgender.

[dubbel zout]

What is "40 year old shoulder"?

 

I've only heard it called frozen shoulder, and it's not unusual. It does afflict mostly women, though I don't know if age is that big a factor.

[Texasmom1970]

Learned something new that is actually not of a sexual nature from this show never heard of 40 year old shoulder. If it is real, I am 45 and thankfully have never had that affliction. 

 

I too love Maggie saying she did not care as long as the check clears. I know some artists would be outraged, but I would just be happy getting paid. Just the right amount of Josh this episode. None of him whining about their relationship or teasing her about her age, much more tolerable.

[Julia]

I really do hope Jade is gone but I don't trust this show to let us be rid of her yet. I expect her to cause havoc..for some reason even though she did get all her money already and spent it all and didn't give a damn about writing a book anyways.

Just, her new company spent twice as much, doesn't actually owe her an advance, and can sue her blind if she doesn't deliver a book. Also, they own her social media accounts now.

Edited February 11, 2016 by Julia

[Lion]

The doctor gave the technical term for the affliction, adhesive capsulitis, and even if you google '40-year-old-shoulder', you're going to get results for the technical term.  Yes, it's a real thing.  Often called frozen shoulder.

 

The Hugh Shirley character was so uncomfortable to me, just on a personal level.  I have this male acquaintance who is just like Hugh.  Basically the Rachel Dolezal of the feminist world. On the surface appears to be an ally, but listen a little more closely and their isn't much true advocacy in the message. Then this friend will later be the type to find the need to hold doors open for women (and only women) or pull out chairs for women (and only women) or most infuriating, encourage 'clean' speech for the benefit of the women's ears at the table.  

 

I found Maggie and Lauren's scene to be the best of the episode, simply in how quiet the commentary was and it was one of those scenes that nearly everyone in the audience could immediately relate to.  The way we perceive things and what matters can change as we grow older.  

 

I suspect Jade and her social media accounts to come back with a vengeance.  Has this show covered doxing yet?  I wouldn't be surprised if Jade doxes Liza and Kelsey, and that's how Liza's real age and history is revealed to her colleagues.  

Edited February 11, 2016 by Lion

[kirinan]

Not crazy about the fact that they did everything but castrate him to make the point that only a man who's symbolically rejecting being a man would be interested in the unfiltered version.

 

Maybe Diana will sleep with him and he'll magically turn back into a male? 

Edited February 11, 2016 by kirinan

[Hanahope]

I suspect Jade and her social media accounts to come back with a vengeance.  Has this show covered doxing yet?  I wouldn't be surprised if Jade doxes Liza and Kelsey, and that's how Liza's real age and history is revealed to her colleagues.

 

Oooo, what's doxing?  I love that this show is teaching me stuff about social media that I'm going to need to know with my kids.

 

I did laugh at how the feminist author wanted to paid less and Empire is all "ok, sure, fine with us."  Of course they'd be fine with paying less, lol

[ZuluQueenOfDwarves]

Doxing is a scary little event where, as "revenge", Internet bullies hack their target's personal info (address, SSN, workplace info) and publish it online. People have been stalked, had their bosses called and harassed in an attempt to have them fired, etc. I wouldn't be surprised it Ms. Public Urination resorted to it.

[HunterHunted]

I very much thought "The Male Feminist" was going to come out as a transwoman in the dinner scene. Interesting that he doesn't see any irony in shoving Diana into a cab and sending her home, clearly against her wishes.

I really thought that the male feminist guy was going to go all Jian Ghomeshi on Diana because Jian would also talk about being a feminist and advocate when he initially met women.

[Julia]

Maybe Diana will sleep with him and he'll magically turn back into a male?

I feel like there's something weird going on with him, like this is a persona he's crafting.

Oooo, what's doxing? I love that this show is teaching me stuff about social media that I'm going to need to know with my kids.

Doxing is a scary little event where, as "revenge", Internet bullies hack their target's personal info (address, SSN, workplace info) and publish it online. People have been stalked, had their bosses called and harassed in an attempt to have them fired, etc. I wouldn't be surprised it Ms. Public Urination resorted to it.

^^this. And there have been mobs set off from, let's say web destinations which celebrate the peculiar social advantages of anonimity, which have driven women (you'll be amazed to hear it's generally women) into hiding. Edited February 11, 2016 by Julia

[slowpoked]

So I don't know much about the publishing world, but didn't Kelsey threaten Jade's agent with a lawsuit last episode? So how come that didn't gain traction with Jade and she just continue to blow away her advance? I was just surprised it didn't come up in this episode again. Wouldn't it be better to just be honest with Charles and sue her ass for breach of contract? Or is that not how it operates in the real publishing world?

[dubbel zout]

A lawsuit would be the last resort, since it's spending more money. I think the way it worked out is probably the best result, even if it was underhanded. They're rid of Jade and they got their money back (and more). 

 

Though I still don't understand why Jade didn't have a minion put together her tweets the way Liza did. I thought that was what the book was supposed to be in the first place.

[Hanahope]

Ah doxing, that's what they did in Gamergate I believe.  And yes, of course its against women.  And some  believe that sexism, like racism, doesn't still exist anymore.  Yeah, sure.

 

I suspect that Empire/Kelsey didn't go the lawsuit route because of (a) the time involved before getting any sort of judgment - could be years; (b) whether they'd even be able to collect anything since Jade spent all the money and her purchases appear to be items that depreciate in value, as opposed to a 'harder' asset like real estate or a car; © didn't really want to admit failure on their first time out and essentially shut Millennial down due to lack of funds to continue.

[NeenerNeener]

 

Learned something new that is actually not of a sexual nature from this show never heard of 40 year old shoulder. If it is real, I am 45 and thankfully have never had that affliction.

 

You're not out of the woods yet. While I actually was 40 when my right shoulder froze up, it didn't happen to my sister until she was in her early 60s. If you pull a shoulder muscle and start babying it, it can form adhesions as it heals. Mine happened when I was trying to find the tv remote that fell behind my chair; my sister got hers from pulling her wheeled luggage around Europe.

Edited February 11, 2016 by NeenerNeener

[Lion]

Yup! A lot of female gamers became terrified to even comment about Gamergate due to fears of being doxxed.  Felicia Day, a well known female in the gaming world, was immediately doxxed when she expressed those fears.  

 

For posters who might not know about Gamergate, another well known example of doxxing is the dentist who murdered Cecil the lion.  He and his family had to go into hiding after Mia Farrow shared his address on Twitter.  Donald Trump doxxed Lindsay Graham several months ago by sharing his personal cell phone number during a speech.  

 

I think it was last episode that Liza freaked out about Caitlin and Josh friending each other on Instagram leading to a connection with both sides of her life.  It will be so easy for Jade to figure out Liza's secrets and we know she has zero scruples about tweeting out all sorts of inappropriate things.  Not to mention, she's a stalker!

 

Doxxing is probably my worst fear ever.  

[Julia]

So I don't know much about the publishing world, but didn't Kelsey threaten Jade's agent with a lawsuit last episode? So how come that didn't gain traction with Jade and she just continue to blow away her advance? I was just surprised it didn't come up in this episode again. Wouldn't it be better to just be honest with Charles and sue her ass for breach of contract? Or is that not how it operates in the real publishing world?

Because I don't think Jade gives a damn what happens to her agent, and if she blows (see what I did there? cocaine?) through her money buying expense account food for homeless people, she's probably judgment proof.

Edited February 11, 2016 by Julia

[dcalley]

I thought it was weird that Liza took Josh into the doctor's exam room. I guess they needed more screen time for Josh.

[teapot]

Jade is *so* Cat Marnell;  the way she was posing in her photos and I believe Cat was the one who coined the term "Conde Nasties."

 

I wonder what she thinks of it?  (if she thinks of it, I cannot picture Cat sitting around watching TV Land, but maybe one of her industry friends clued her in)

[ASpring1900]

Jade is *so* Cat Marnell;  the way she was posing in her photos and I believe Cat was the one who coined the term "Conde Nasties."

 

I wonder what she thinks of it?  (if she thinks of it, I cannot picture Cat sitting around watching TV Land, but maybe one of her industry friends clued her in)

Apparently she is a good sport about it and implies that she was definitely the inspiration for the character:

 

https://twitter.com/Cat_Marnell/status/692553795545518084

[Lion]

Jade is *so* Cat Marnell;  the way she was posing in her photos and I believe Cat was the one who coined the term "Conde Nasties."

 

I wonder what she thinks of it?  (if she thinks of it, I cannot picture Cat sitting around watching TV Land, but maybe one of her industry friends clued her in)

Conde Nasties has been a term for a while.  I'm not even sure if it's known who coined it, but it's unlikely to have been Cat Marnell.  It's been around since at least 2001 when it appeared in Toby Young's How to Lose Friends and Alienate People. I think Cat Marnell serves as some inspiration for Jade, but like the other characters in the show, Jade seems to be a composite to form a more stock/trope character.  

[dubbel zout]

Page Six might have coined it. It loves to report on the excesses of the media, Condé Nast especially.

[teapot]

Page Six might have coined it. It loves to report on the excesses of the media, Condé Nast especially.

probably, LOL...I tend to only accept my own scope as law.  (that works well for me, NOT) and the first time I heard it was when Cat said it on xojane.

[Julia]

I'm pretty sure I'd heard it before 2001, but then one of the companies I worked for shared a building with Conde Nast.

[Maharincess]

I think I'm to old for Younger. I have no clue who Cat Marnell is and I've never heard of and have no idea what "Conde Nasties" are.

[Lion]

I wouldn't be so sure that all of the viewers here discussing these things had heard about them before the show or were discussed here.  I think the only way you can be too old for Younger is if you are too old to use Google.  Even then, that wouldn't be an age thing, but simply not using the internet.  No one on this site should experience that concern.  I definitely googled stuff like Conde Nasties in order to learn more about it.  

[teapot]

I like that if I don't know something, usually someone who is into the same shows that I am, can shed some light on the subject!  I like how helpful & open everyone here is!

[teapot]

And sometimes, like in the case of "truffle butter", I regret it. LOL

 

oh yes, right?  I have never been more upset that there was no such thing as "un-learning" after that little Google search...

[Psychobunny]

Why does it bother me so much that I wanted to scream at the stupid doctor that adhesive capsulitis usually takes 12-18 months to resolve? (That medical degree has to be worth something). Anyway, agree with most of the above posts. Also just realized that Diana is pursuing a man named Charles. I can see that character thinking there is some royal destiny there.

[Snarklepuss]

I feel like there's something weird going on with him, like this is a persona he's crafting.

 

Re: Male feminist guy - I agree.  I think he crafted the persona because he was hard-up, but upon scoring will realize he doesn't need that shtick anymore to get laid and turn back into a somewhat normal guy.  One can hope!  As gag inducing as he is at least Diana is getting some action!

 

Me too on liking not seeing so much of Josh in an episode.  But when he was around it was back to all syrupy and puppy-doggy with him hanging around in the doctor's office.  Yuck.

 

Yeah, I regret looking up "truffle butter" too.  Pass the brain bleach please.

 

Cat Marnell may be as much or more of a publishing in-thing rather than an age in-thing so I'm not feeling dinosaurish on that point.  Conde Nasties is not generation-related and it kind of defines itself if you know anything about the company, lol. 

Edited February 16, 2016 by Snarklepuss

[Julia]

Why does it bother me so much that I wanted to scream at the stupid doctor that adhesive capsulitis usually takes 12-18 months to resolve?

 

What bothered me about that scene is that nobody pointed out to Dr. Social Darwinism that he was in the stage of life when his mate would start seeking out virile men.

[ZuluQueenOfDwarves]

While truffle butter is revolting--you just don't go back and forth, you don't, those areas stay separate unless you want a UTI--was anyone else squicked out about the "Male Feminist" wearing a tampon? How did that not result in toxic shock syndrome?

[Lion]

While truffle butter is revolting--you just don't go back and forth, you don't, those areas stay separate unless you want a UTI--was anyone else squicked out about the "Male Feminist" wearing a tampon? How did that not result in toxic shock syndrome?

He likely didn't have active staph bacteria anywhere on his body and/or he washed his hands well so none transferred and/or didn't have any open cuts for possible staph to transfer.  TSS isn't really a matter of only leaving a tampon in too long.  I'm mostly just squicked out that he had something in his anus all day.