S10.E02: Founder's Mutation

[millennium]

Bingo. It felt too jumpy to me too. I think it could be in part due to the length of commercial breaks now. There were a lot less of them back then.

 

Aha!   It's not us, it's them.  "Founder's Mutation" was originally episode No. 5.

 

‘X-Files’ Creator Chris Carter Explains Why Episodes Are Airing Out of Order

 

http://collider.com/x-files-episode-order-chris-carter-fox/  

[AntiBeeSpray]

Aha!   It's not us, it's them.  "Founder's Mutation" was originally episode No. 5.

 

Yea it was filmed in that order. I'm glad that they switched it to be honest. Felt nothing between M & S, chemistry or connection wise. So having it as ep 5 would have been very disappointing. I'm glad that they have Babylon in that slot now and Home Again in as ep 4.

[millennium]

But it answers my earlier misgivings over Scully suddenly being back on the X-Files without any transitional scene or exposition.

Edited January 29, 2016 by millennium

[DaynaPhile]

But if there is any of that and it comes in a later episode it will feel out of order. So the fact that they can shuffle and it's not a problem means we probably won't have any good meaty scenes seeing her struggle with the idea of going back.

[TomServo]

If was off-putting to our crew that the scene of Mulder initially meeting the guy in the bar served no purpose other than to set up the sex joke.  Mulder meets guy in a bar, asks to go somewhere more private.  Guy misunderstands what he means by that and walks back out of the "private" supply room.  Very next scene is the two of them sitting at the bar drinking beer and having their discussion out in the open in a less private place than the booth where they had been sitting when Mulder asked for more privacy.

[ksb]

If I remember correctly, it was a misunderstanding right from the start. The guy thought, Mulder wanted to pick him up straight away. He was reluctant. Mulder told him, he was trustworthy and they should go somewhere more private. Mulder thought the guy needed the privacy to talk and the guy thought Mulder wanted to have sex. Once the misunderstanding was cleared up, they talked at the bar. Made perfect sense to me.

 

And I agree with whoever wrote that the scene was put in there mainly to tell us that having been absent from investigating in social situations for so long made Mulder a bit rusty and clumsy. Sure they also went for the joke, but it didn't feel gratuitous to me.

[joelene]

I trust you noticed that I wrote "his or her knees" It's not the gay aspect that bothers me (other than anonymous and indiscriminate sexual hookups being a gay stereotype strongly associated with the spread of AIDS back in the 80s). It's the raunch for raunch's sake, regardless of sexual orientation -- and that a such a scene was aired at 8 pm during the traditional broadcasting "family hour."

Yes I know. I think the gay aspect might be what bothers some people, but that's why I also wrote I wasn't saying that aspect necessarily bothered you guys in particular.

As for anonymous sexual hook-ups, well, that's just part of gay sexual culture. An "easy" joke for a straight man to write, perhaps, but nothing offensive to gay people. Finally The X-Files gives up some gay, I say! But that's just IMO. Plus it wasn't just raunch without purpose. I liked the conversation about Sanjay (was that suicide man's name?) being closeted and their little affair. It's still an important topic to a lot of people, and I liked how they worked some humour into it. Crass and class.

And, despite the hour, it's The X-Files! It's not Parenthood or Modern Family. Oh well, I can agree with you that I think 8PM is a little strange for what kind of series it is, at least.

Edited January 29, 2016 by joelene

[JWalker]

Next months numbers (Sweep Month) will even be more important I think. They will probably determine whether we get more episodes or not.

[Tardislass]

But if there is any of that and it comes in a later episode it will feel out of order. So the fact that they can shuffle and it's not a problem means we probably won't have any good meaty scenes seeing her struggle with the idea of going back.

I think anyone looking for any sense of closure with regards to M&S and their relationship is in for a disappointment. All of the actors have stated that M&S getting back together is a long process and CC has even stated he liked writing conflict for both of them. So I'm expecting a thaw and maybe going back to relaxed partners, but since CC envisions more storylines, I'm thinking any happy reunion of M&S and/or William is still far away.

[HalcyonDays]

As for anonymous sexual hook-ups, well, that's just part of gay sexual culture.

 

Honestly, I think it's part of any sex culture. Some people have hookups. Some don't. To each his own. Of course, I was so waiting for a AshleyMadison or PlentyOfFish or EHarmony profiles instead that Mulder looks up, since apparently no one actually asks others on dates anymore in this day and age, but instead find people online.

 

The email on Dr. Sanjay's phone had the name/subject Gupta. Scully says it means "Secret" in Hindi(? - I forgot which language she said). Conspiracy!Mulder thinks it's a meeting on this government conspiracy, but the "secret" is really their hookups. I thought it was a cute little switch. *shrug*

 

Doesn't anyone remember Mulder's "Big Box of Porn" (tm 40-Year Old Virgin), or him watching it in the background, or in Fight the Future, him peeing against the bar wall, and Mulder gets creeped out by Kurtzweil invading his space by peeing next to him? Those little goofy sexual innuendos have been part of X-Files for ever.

 

And I agree with whoever wrote that the scene was put in there mainly to tell us that having been absent from investigating in social situations for so long made Mulder a bit rusty and clumsy.

 

Yeah, I mentioned that too. He's rusty from apparently surfing on the web all day. I'm disappointed we didn't get a mention of Mulder on the Dark Internet finding his information!

 

Yea it was filmed in that order. I'm glad that they switched it to be honest.

 

Didn't realize he switched so much. If the continuity and character growth seems more logical in the reordering, then why not. CC just tweaks here and there and it's done.

 

I read that only 2 of the 6 episodes are mythology, the rest are standalone? Episode 1 (and most likely 6) will be mythology. Sounds good, but I thought that more would by myth, to be honest. Either way, I'm entertained!

[DesertCyclist]

The episode didn't reflect well on gay men -- within one minute of meeting, the gay guy's trying to blow Mulder in the bathroom.   I have no idea how close to reality the scene was, but it seems to play right into homophobic stereotypes.    It felt like a cheap laugh at the expense of the gay community.

 

Token gay here.  The scene didn't offend me in the least.  Gupta caught me off guard as much as he did Mulder.  I thought Gupta was being surveilled by those gentlemen.  My best friend and I both laughed our asses off.  I don't think the situation was as much a reflection of gay culture as it was a reflection of a repressed culture.  Sorry, gays don't have a corner on bathroom hookups.  As to why that scene was included -- aside from a (successful in my book) attempt at humor -- I have no idea.

[AntiBeeSpray]

Yes I know. I think the gay aspect might be what bothers some people, but that's why I also wrote I wasn't saying that aspect necessarily bothered you guys in particular.

As for anonymous sexual hook-ups, well, that's just part of gay sexual culture. An "easy" joke for a straight man to write, perhaps, but nothing offensive to gay people. Finally The X-Files gives up some gay, I say! But that's just IMO. Plus it wasn't just raunch without purpose. I liked the conversation about Sanjay (was that suicide man's name?) being closeted and their little affair. It's still an important topic to a lot of people, and I liked how they worked some humour into it. Crass and class.

And, despite the hour, it's The X-Files! It's not Parenthood or Modern Family. Oh well, I can agree with you that I think 8PM is a little strange for what kind of series it is, at least.

 

Actually, that's not what bothered me at all. I just found the joke to be cheap.

Token gay here.  The scene didn't offend me in the least.  Gupta caught me off guard as much as he did Mulder.  I thought Gupta was being surveilled by those gentlemen.  My best friend and I both laughed our asses off.  I don't think the situation was as much a reflection of gay culture as it was a reflection of a repressed culture.  Sorry, gays don't have a corner on bathroom hookups.  As to why that scene was included -- aside from a (successful in my book) attempt at humor -- I have no idea.

 

It caught me off guard as well. Just didn't find it all that funny.

I think anyone looking for any sense of closure with regards to M&S and their relationship is in for a disappointment. All of the actors have stated that M&S getting back together is a long process and CC has even stated he liked writing conflict for both of them. So I'm expecting a thaw and maybe going back to relaxed partners, but since CC envisions more storylines, I'm thinking any happy reunion of M&S and/or William is still far away.

 

Yep, which is FAR from enough anymore. I don't blame people for not bothering with this show anymore. The whole carrot and stick routine is going to wear fans down to the point where they just don't care about it.

[sharinlilbit]

Except people AREN'T not bothering with the show anymore.  The first two episodes got incredible ratings, with the second ep not having the lead-in of a major sporting event to boost it.  And since we are only going to have four more weeks of it, that we KNOW of for sure, I seriously doubt that ratings are going to fall very far, if at all, because of M&S' relationship and whether or not it's enough for the audience. 

[Tardislass]

Except people AREN'T not bothering with the show anymore. The first two episodes got incredible ratings, with the second ep not having the lead-in of a major sporting event to boost it. And since we are only going to have four more weeks of it, that we KNOW of for sure, I seriously doubt that ratings are going to fall very far, if at all, because of M&S' relationship and whether or not it's enough for the audience.

For me, GA & DD sell the relationship. Even if the writers have them apart, they and their characters show that they have some form of love/trust. I don't need to see any make out scenes between the two.

What I am worried about is the intro of the two young FBI agents & that Fox will have them be the new partners with Mulder/Scully being in the consultant/Skinner roles going forward. For me the show is about Mulder/Scully- if I wanted to watch random agents investigating eerie phenomenonia, there are better shows out there.

Edited January 29, 2016 by Tardislass

[Tardislass]

Thank you to the OP who posted the sneak peaks of the Were-Monster episode. It looks freaking great..and the camera app is brilliant. Still chuckling. And Scully enjoying herself..priceless.

Edited January 29, 2016 by Tardislass

[supposebly]

I think the relationship where it is now is sold very well and it makes a lot of sense to me.

This relationship would be difficult at the best of times, and Mulder seems to have been floundering between depression, obsession, and general aimlessness. Combined with his tendency to run after every so-called "Key of Everything", I'm surprised Scully even showed up in episode 1.

To me this feels very right. 15 years is a long time for any relationship. Changes are to be expected. To be honest, I never could see them living in harmony in their little house. That doesn't say Scully and Mulder to me.

 

And even so, just because they don't live together anymore, doesn't mean a hook-up isn't in the books. If only Carter stays away from his former crap.

[DaynaPhile]

I meant closure as far as how they were convinced to come back to the FBI, not closure for their relationship. CC is at the helm, I know I'm never getting it.

[AntiBeeSpray]

For me, GA & DD sell the relationship. Even if the writers have them apart, they and their characters show that they have some form of love/trust. I don't need to see any make out scenes between the two.

What I am worried about is the intro of the two young FBI agents & that Fox will have them be the new partners with Mulder/Scully being in the consultant/Skinner roles going forward. For me the show is about Mulder/Scully- if I wanted to watch random agents investigating eerie phenomenonia, there are better shows out there.

 

I don't either. But I don't need to see stupid sex related scenes between the characters and others either. It just rubs me the wrong way. :\

 

Nah. They don't bug me that much. Not much of a fan of them, but I'm certainly not much of a fan where things are at now. Just watching the show rather comatose like.

I meant closure as far as how they were convinced to come back to the FBI, not closure for their relationship. CC is at the helm, I know I'm never getting it.

 

Yep and if it does, I'm betting they'll be very old by that time.

I think the relationship where it is now is sold very well and it makes a lot of sense to me.

This relationship would be difficult at the best of times, and Mulder seems to have been floundering between depression, obsession, and general aimlessness. Combined with his tendency to run after every so-called "Key of Everything", I'm surprised Scully even showed up in episode 1.

To me this feels very right. 15 years is a long time for any relationship. Changes are to be expected. To be honest, I never could see them living in harmony in their little house. That doesn't say Scully and Mulder to me.

 

And even so, just because they don't live together anymore, doesn't mean a hook-up isn't in the books. If only Carter stays away from his former crap.

 

Maybe to you. I was ok with how it was in IWTB. It wasn't perfect, but at least it wasn't stick and carrot crap.

 

I consider where things are at now to be manufactured. To bring back the 'drama and the angst'. I'm worn out of it.

 

We can all dream for that. Doubt it'll happen. We're getting more games!

 

Thank a'lien for Gillian mentioning in that Good Day L.A. interview that they still get together now and then. Not too thrilled with FWB, but at least it's better than what Carter has to offer.

 

 

*Sorry for any venting you guys. I'm just not feeling the revival right now.

[Tardislass]

More good news for the show. 3 million more viewers watched it on-demand.

Patrick Munn ‏@patmunn  5h5 hours ago
L3s for The X-Files Ep 2 just came in. Audience for Founders Mutation grew to 12.7 million viewers and a 4.4 A18-49 rating #TheXFiles

 

Sources at Fox say talks of another series are evolving...

[Leia1979]

I'm very glad I finally got around to watching the 2008 film yesterday before starting to watch the new season. I would have been a heck of a lot more confused without it, although I would like to get a better idea of what happened over the last 8 years. Knowing how this show works, I'm also prepared not to get any answers.

 

Overall, I really liked this episode. It felt like classic, creepy, WTF X-Files.  

[AntiBeeSpray]

I'm very glad I finally got around to watching the 2008 film yesterday before starting to watch the new season. I would have been a heck of a lot more confused without it, although I would like to get a better idea of what happened over the last 8 years. Knowing how this show works, I'm also prepared not to get any answers.

 

Overall, I really liked this episode. It felt like classic, creepy, WTF X-Files.  

 

Yea so am I. Just a bit tired of the games. I don't mind some non answers, but if it gets a little too silly... then I'm like... /facepalm

[spaulding]

Great episode.  Classic X-Files.  Anderson and Duchovny have such great chemistry.  I can't believe how easy it was for them to get into character over a decade later.

 

"ObamaCare."  Heh, I missed Mulder's dry wit. 

 

Gillian mentioning in that Good Day L.A. interview that they still get together now and then. Not too thrilled with FWB, but at least it's better than what Carter has to offer.

 

The What If dreams were heartbreaking, but I was bummed that neither of them dreamed of a life with William and each other.  I wanted to see that the other person was as important as William.

 

Realistically, I'm not saddened that Mulder and Scully never got a happily ever after.  Mulder has always been difficult because of his obsessions, conspiracy theories, and the deep void over the loss of his sister.  I can't imagine Mulder with anybody in the long term. 

 

Scully deserves to have a happy life--married if she choose--even if it's not with Mulder.  She deserves better than FWB.

 

I didn't know that Carter didn't want to explicitly say that Mulder was William's father.  It seems insulting to M&S's relationship.  They trusted each other with their lives, had a deep connection, and fell in love (as much as Mulder can love anybody).  I don't recall if either of them had a great connection with anybody else during those years handling X-Files cases. 

Edited January 31, 2016 by spaulding

[JWalker]

I think Mulder cares more than he lets on at times. Hes got a lot on his mind. I think he feels guilty about what happened to William and probably feels responsible for some of the things that have happened to Scully along the way.

[Tardislass]

Great episode.  Classic X-Files.  Anderson and Duchovny have such great chemistry.  I can't believe how easy it was for them to get into character over a decade later.

 

"ObamaCare."  Heh, I missed Mulder's dry wit. 

 

 

The What If dreams were heartbreaking, but I was bummed that neither of them dreamed of a life with William and each other.  I wanted to see that the other person was as important as William.

 

Realistically, I'm not saddened that Mulder and Scully never got a happily ever after.  Mulder has always been difficult because of his obsessions, conspiracy theories, and the deep void over the loss of his sister.  I can't imagine Mulder with anybody in the long term. 

 

Scully deserves to have a happy life--married if she choose--even if it's not with Mulder.  She deserves better than FWB.

 

I didn't know that Carter didn't want to explicitly say that Mulder was William's father.  It seems insulting to M&S's relationship.  They trusted each other with their lives, had a deep connection, and fell in love (as much as Mulder can love anybody).  I don't recall if either of them had a great connection with anybody else during those years handling X-Files cases. 

I think the daydreams were in keeping with the more poignant tone of the show. For me if it had M&S and William it would have been a bit too sappy. Plus the fact we already know that M&S love each other in some way with their interactions together.

 

For me Scully is a bit of a paradox, she's said she wants a normal life but when presented with the opportunity like going on dates or walking away from The X-Files, she chooses the excitement of the cases and being with Mulder. But she's had that from an early age, rejecting the routine doctor career path for becoming an FBI agent. She may have the unattractive obsessiveness of Mulder but she still likes the excitement and the sparing with him. JMHO.

 

Finally, I think even if they find William, it will be bittersweet. It's a topic close to my heart since I had a friend who gave up her child back in her teens and the child found her a few years ago. The relationship between them now is more like a friend-they check in a few times a year and send Christmas cards-but it's decidly not parental.

M&S will never have the parental relationship or the parental bond with William, who's grown up in a different family and parents..who are his parents. That's why I hope that if they find him, most of it happens off-screen.

 

I do find it rather ironic that if the funeral in Ep.4 is who I think it is, that CSM is the only parental figure left. And yes, I hated that they made him Fox's real father. Ugh. 

[JWalker]

Perhaps Im alone in my thoughts. Both Mulder and Scully come across as "somewhat damaged goods". Its difficult for me to visualize either one of them with someone else.

[ksb]

Perhaps Im alone in my thoughts. Both Mulder and Scully come across as "somewhat damaged goods". Its difficult for me to visualize either one of them with someone else.

 

This. And also, I'm still perplexed by the fact that I couldn't care less that Mulder and Scully are not a *romantic* couple per se any more. Furthermore, I've realised that I don't need them to *get back together* either to be happy with the miniseries. The way their relationship has been portrayed in the first two episodes is all I need to enjoy whatever they throw my way in the remaining run. As somebody else has said: The heart is intact. Nothing else matters to me. 

[AntiBeeSpray]

Great episode.  Classic X-Files.  Anderson and Duchovny have such great chemistry.  I can't believe how easy it was for them to get into character over a decade later.

 

"ObamaCare."  Heh, I missed Mulder's dry wit. 

 

 

The What If dreams were heartbreaking, but I was bummed that neither of them dreamed of a life with William and each other.  I wanted to see that the other person was as important as William.

 

Realistically, I'm not saddened that Mulder and Scully never got a happily ever after.  Mulder has always been difficult because of his obsessions, conspiracy theories, and the deep void over the loss of his sister.  I can't imagine Mulder with anybody in the long term. 

 

Scully deserves to have a happy life--married if she choose--even if it's not with Mulder.  She deserves better than FWB.

 

I didn't know that Carter didn't want to explicitly say that Mulder was William's father.  It seems insulting to M&S's relationship.  They trusted each other with their lives, had a deep connection, and fell in love (as much as Mulder can love anybody).  I don't recall if either of them had a great connection with anybody else during those years handling X-Files cases. 

 

I agree on that (as much as I don't ever want to imagine it) and same goes with Mulder. FWB just feels kind of insulting in a way.

 

Word. And they're still saying that they are in love. But to be honest, it doesn't mean much in my opinion, given the current circumstances.

This. And also, I'm still perplexed by the fact that I couldn't care less that Mulder and Scully are not a *romantic* couple per se any more. Furthermore, I've realised that I don't need them to *get back together* either to be happy with the miniseries. The way their relationship has been portrayed in the first two episodes is all I need to enjoy whatever they throw my way in the remaining run. As somebody else has said: The heart is intact. Nothing else matters to me. 

 

I wish I could feel the same. It's just not enough for me anymore, especially after all that they've been through.

[joelene]

This. And also, I'm still perplexed by the fact that I couldn't care less that Mulder and Scully are not a *romantic* couple per se any more. Furthermore, I've realised that I don't need them to *get back together* either to be happy with the miniseries. The way their relationship has been portrayed in the first two episodes is all I need to enjoy whatever they throw my way in the remaining run. As somebody else has said: The heart is intact. Nothing else matters to me.

Them not being together in that way doesn't bother me either and was frankly not a big concern for me when I heard about it a while back. The only thing that concerned me was that the love angst would distract from the other aspects of the show, but as far as I'm concerned it hasn't. I have no big complaints. It all mostly makes sense to me. They'll get together again eventually, so this separation doesn't bother me.

[AntiBeeSpray]

Them not being together in that way doesn't bother me either and was frankly not a big concern for me when I heard about it a while back. The only thing that concerned me was that the love angst would distract from the other aspects of the show, but as far as I'm concerned it hasn't. I have no big complaints. It all mostly makes sense to me. They'll get together again eventually, so this separation doesn't bother me.

 

Fair point. But eventually seems to be a LONG way off. Even Gillian said it won't be until the very end. Which could be years from now. That's my one issue I have with it. I'm tired of the stick and carrot stuff.

[ganesh]

I never was a shipper. I was adamantly opposed, then I grew up, and I don't really care. I do like the theory that M&S have been having sex off and on since the start, even though there's zero onscreen evidence to that.

 

Obviously, they were together. It's canon. Obviously, Scully was in charge of the relationship. I could see her being just like, "I don't need this right now, so we're taking a break." Or, "I'd like to be on my own for a while." 

 

I thought the bathroom scene was *hilarious* because the other guy was clearly there for a hook up. The cut to them sitting at the bar having a beer was brilliant. "Ok, now that we got that out of the way. I'd like to solve your friend's murder and I could really use your help."

I could totally see Scully, dryly of course, and totally deadpan, ripping on Mulder for days, "You want to go somewhere private and talk about this Mulder?" *arch eyebrow*

[Bastet]

I could totally see Scully, dryly of course, and totally deadpan, ripping on Mulder for days, "You want to go somewhere private and talk about this Mulder?" *arch eyebrow*

 

Same here.  I liked that scene, and one of my first reactions to it was, "Oh man, Scully is going to have a field day with this."  We won't see it on screen, but it's been playing in my mind ever since.

[ganesh]

Is it me or is the show more graphic now?

[AntiBeeSpray]

Is it me or is the show more graphic now?

 

Do you mean violence or sex wise or both?

[ganesh]

Violence. I'm fine with both. In 10.1 they blew up the woman at the end, and showed a lot of Scully's patients at the hospital. Here, the guy shoved a letter opener into his head. Then Scully yanked it out and crushed his fingers. They've done some gross stuff on the show, which I'm all for. It seems like this new version upped it. 

[Frozendiva]

Ganesh, times and what's allowed on TV have changed. Back in the X File olden days, Fox did veto a lot of stuff.

 

Nice to see you again. We've chatted before on TWOP (I was Playzonwords).

[ganesh]

I'm fine with the XF taking advantage of that. Except for Home. 

[ChuckWagon]

I'm fine with the XF taking advantage of that. Except for Home. 

 

:)

 

On the flip side, I think it's cruel and inhuman to title an episode Home Again and not take us back ;0}  I think we can and should go Home again.  

 

FWB just feels kind of insulting in a way.

 

 

This.  And kindof reduces the relationship.  FWB is by definition all about the sex; M&S's connection was never about the sex.  The sex was a by product of the connection.  

Edited February 1, 2016 by ChuckWagon

[AntiBeeSpray]

:)

 

On the flip side, I think it's cruel and inhuman to title an episode Home Again and not take us back ;0}  I think we can and should go Home again.  

 

 

This.  And kindof reduces the relationship.  FWB is by definition all about the sex; M&S's connection was never about the sex.  The sex was a by product of the connection.  

 

Agreed. It's sad to see it be reduced to that. That the writers think that most shippers just want to see that. What they don't know is that not every one does or has that very high on their priority list. It was about their love and respect. But now... it's a long road back to that. Any of the words and talks they had back in the day don't mean all that much to me anymore. Given things. Even if they (CC and 1013) say that M & S love each other, it doesn't mean a damn thing anymore.

[Taryn74]

Hubby and I finally got time to watch Founder's Mutation last night.

 

Had this MotW ep occurred in earlier seasons it certainly wouldn't have been a favorite - intriguing, yes, but nothing terribly special.  But for a Season 10 ep - something we never dreamed would really happen - I was grinning like a fool throughout the whole thing.  I even squealed a little at the end.  They're back.  They're really, really, back.

 

Thoughts:

 

Being used to young children on XF meaning bad, very bad, things, I was pleasantly surprised that Young!Molly was just happily sitting at the bottom of the pool because she could breathe underwater, and wasn't down there waiting for the chance to drown her mother or something.

 

I liked Kyle and Teen!Molly.  I liked that they weren't out to hurt anybody but their father.  I thought it was interesting that the ear-piercing screechy noise was just Kyle trying to communicate telepathically.

 

I didn't realize Kyle was the one that ran out in front of Scully, so I'm glad to know that scene was there for something other than product placement.  Heh.  But to the one that was asking about if we knew that Kyle was near enough when Mulder and Scully were searching Sanjay's apartment to try to communicate with Mulder - there was a couple of times that the camera angle showed that someone was watching them, and you could hear someone breathing hard like they had been running and/or were frightened.  I didn't connect the dots until later that it was Kyle, but I did notice it while watching.

 

What was the deal with the cat?  That was just odd.  Would there really be pets wandering around in a place like that?  And why would seeing the cat be what snapped Goldman's wife out of her silence?  Strange scene.

 

The 'what if' fantasy scenes with William made me go 'awww' -- but at the same time felt really strange, Scully's especially.  Did it look to anyone else like William's arm was deformed in the scene where he was being loaded into the ambulance?  I know he had broken his arm and it was jutting out, but it looked like it just ended in a point and he didn't have a hand.  It may have just been the camera angle.  

 

It also felt like the fantasy scenes went on too long, especially with the way they went from scenario to scenario.  I think it would have been more effective if we had gotten snippets of different fantasies just scattered throughout, as though Scully and Mulder caught themselves daydreaming about William often, with the fantasies slowly becoming more sinister as Scully/Mulder's fears crept in.  And of course Mulder's biggest fear is that William would be abducted the same way Samantha was, and Mulder was again powerless to stop it.  Damn it, Mulder.  *sniff*

 

I call shenanigans on that being the only baby picture Scully has of William, though.  He lived with her until he was several months' old, for pete's sake.  Hubby and I snapped dozens - if not hundreds - of pictures of our oldest in that length of time, and that was from before digital cameras were even a thing.

 

Skinner being all hard-ass while dealing with M/S "on record" and then immediately being all "so.....you made copies, right?" as soon as they were alone made me legit LOL.  Perfection.

[wayne67]

Well this reminded me of Classic X Files

 

Not only did they not actually solve the case they were given. They let loose the telepathic suspect with his telekinetic sister and incidentally caused the death of the lead scientist. Also the hospital has lost their biggest patron which might mean Scully won't have that job to fall back on after her stint on the X Files is over. 

 

And... The DOD probably has all the information on the scientist's methods so that it will continue on...

 

Good old team, making things worse everywhere they go and breaking several laws in the process with no consequences.

[AudienceofOne]

I don't remember it well. Did the show state back in the day that William was Mulder's?

 

I think the intention was also that it was Mulder's but they went to great lengths to imply that even Mulder thought the father was someone else. I remember him investigating it and jokingly accusing the pizza guy at one point. "Who's Dana's baby's father?" was like an endless plot point at one stage. They did seem to be setting it up to be an alien hybrid implanted in her womb i.e. not Mulder's at all.

 

It was kind of addressed in the Season 8 finale when Scully tells Mulder she named William after his(Fox's) father .

Which she would do if she and Mulder were a couple. It doesn't prove paternity. I'm afraid that Mulder being William's father has not been established canonically. If the writers think he is, they should say so. They seem determined to keep that fact ambiguous. The way Mulder and Scully still talk about it, it seems they remain unsure of Willian's paternity. If they aren't, then the dialogue should reflect that.

 

I think neurofibromatosis can sometimes present like that. I saw a TLC show about a chinese man, whom this image reminded me of.

If the idea is that the scientists are experimenting to try to help kids with real, human genetic disorders, then I guess it makes sense that they would pick some of the most dramatic and intractable ones. But if they are implying that these conditions are the result of alien DNA, that kind of bugs me. People with these disorders already face stigmatization; they don't need the implication that they are inhuman.

 

I'm with you on this one and this is often the problem I have with these shows. I think I've ranted over an entire episode of benign shows like Grimm and Warehouse 13 because they decided it was profound to blame objects like coins or 'artefacts' for human cruelty. Or alien influence for human ingenuity. And now implying that genetic disorders are because of experimentation or alien influence is like implying that person would be "normal" if not for outside intervention. Which implies their disorder is unnatural or inhuman. There's nothing more natural or human than having a genetic problem. We all have them in some form or another from the very mild to the debilitating.

Edited March 27, 2016 by AudienceofOne

[Bastet]

I'm afraid that Mulder being William's father has not been established canonically. If the writers think he is, they should say so. They seem determined to keep that fact ambiguous.

 

I threw in the towel somewhere in season seven, so I'm not the one to offer a timeline that tries to make sense of this bullshit, but haven't we had a few "my son/our son" references from Mulder?  I had stopped watching before Scully got pregnant, and all my knowledge of seasons eight and nine comes strictly from reading people's comments, but I thought they finally dropped the coy paternity bullshit by the time the series ended the first time around.  And he's "our son" when they discuss him in the second movie.

Edited March 27, 2016 by Bastet

[baileythedog]

I think the intention was also that it was Mulder's but they went to great lengths to imply that even Mulder thought the father was someone else. I remember him investigating it and jokingly accusing the pizza guy at one point. "Who's Dana's baby's father?" was like an endless plot point at one stage. They did seem to be setting it up to be an alien hybrid implanted in her womb i.e. not Mulder's at all.

 

Which she would do if she and Mulder were a couple. It doesn't prove paternity. I'm afraid that Mulder being William's father has not been established canonically. If the writers think he is, they should say so. They seem determined to keep that fact ambiguous. The way Mulder and Scully still talk about it, it seems they remain unsure of Willian's paternity. If they aren't, then the dialogue should reflect that.

 

 

They confirmed Mulder's paternity in several ways throughout the original series and again in "I Want to Believe."  

 

Obviously naming him after Mulder's father (and not the myriad of other Williams on the show) was the first confirmation. In "The Truth" the prosecutor tries to impeach Scully by querying on her having Mulder's love child. Mulder had earlier told the interrogators that he was thinking about "his son and his mother."  Also in that episode she tells Mulder that she gave William up for adoption and refers to him as "our son."  

The movie later confirmed this as both Mulder and Scully refer to William as "our son."  

 

The only question the show has kept in the air is how Scully was medically able to conceive, not how she got pregnant. 

Edited March 27, 2016 by baileythedog

[eleanorofaquitaine]

All of those things, plus Scully telling Miller that the only thing that could save Mulder at the end of My Struggle II is stem cells from William is pretty strong canonical proof that Mulder is William's father. Honestly, I didn't even watch those seasons, and it's difficult to understand why some are still arguing the point. We saw Scully ask Mulder to be the father through in vitro, we know that Mulder and Scully were having sex, and they've referred to William multiple times as "our son," so unless you actually need to see the moment of conception, I don't think there's a question here anymore.

Edited March 27, 2016 by eleanorofaquitaine

[baileythedog]

so unless you actually need to see the moment of conception, I don't think there's a question here anymore.

 

Ha. I had to literally refrain myself from including that in my post as well.  

 

I guess I'm just confused at this point as to how people can still be confused and what other information they'd truly need to process this.  ??

[baileythedog]

 

I'm with you on this one and this is often the problem I have with these shows. I think I've ranted over an entire episode of benign shows like Grimm and Warehouse 13 because they decided it was profound to blame objects like coins or 'artefacts' for human cruelty. Or alien influence for human ingenuity. And now implying that genetic disorders are because of experimentation or alien influence is like implying that person would be "normal" if not for outside intervention. Which implies their disorder is unnatural or inhuman. There's nothing more natural or human than having a genetic problem. We all have them in some form or another from the very mild to the debilitating.

 

I don't think the episode was at all indicating that the children with the various diseases were so debilitated due to alien influence. Rather, I think the show was suggesting that a legitimate doctor treating real patients with genetic manipulation also had the perfect cover for possibly experimenting on other children.  The syndromes that the parade of sad kids were all real, whereas the wonder twins with the ability to telepathically communicate and cause piercing sounds in other people were the result of experimentation.  

[AudienceofOne]

Ha. I had to literally refrain myself from including that in my post as well.  

 

I guess I'm just confused at this point as to how people can still be confused and what other information they'd truly need to process this.  ??

 

So this is about 2 but if we're allowed to refer to 6 here - that stem cell comment was finally enough for me. Up until then the show was being deliberately coy about parentage in a way I found annoying because there's seemingly no reason for it. As for the "our son" thing - well, my Dad refers to my brothers as "his sons' when they're not biologically his. Considering Scully's relationship to Mulder, that phrasing had little to do with biology - at least to me. YMMV. But yes, saying "we have a child" and "he needs stem cells from our child" was conclusive. Finally.

[baileythedog]

So this is about 2 but if we're allowed to refer to 6 here - that stem cell comment was finally enough for me. Up until then the show was being deliberately coy about parentage in a way I found annoying because there's seemingly no reason for it. As for the "our son" thing - well, my Dad refers to my brothers as "his sons' when they're not biologically his. Considering Scully's relationship to Mulder, that phrasing had little to do with biology - at least to me. YMMV. But yes, saying "we have a child" and "he needs stem cells from our child" was conclusive. Finally.

 

Yeah, I think this is definitely an agree to disagree moment. I won't argue that they stretched out the "how did it happen?" all throughout season 8. But then they were so obvious in answering that question at the end of the season and Scully and Mulder have an entire conversation about "the truth we both know."  

I can see why a man raising children that weren't biologically his would still refer to them as his "sons" (particularly if he'd adopted them or married their mother or whatever) but that wasn't the case with Mulder at all.  He quite famously didn't raise William at all so there would be zero reason to refer to him as his son if he weren't.  

Edited March 28, 2016 by baileythedog