Spoilers and Spoiler Discussion: How's Your Head?

[HalcyonDays]

New Promo - Hope, Courage, Destiny.

 

Also, TVLine spoilers - Fall Season.

 

 

ETA: Extended Episode Synopsis for the season premiere - This is War.

 

Be warned - DO NOT read unless you want some huge major spoilers - This one gives a LOT away and answers half of the questions that were left at the end of the season, along with some of the cryptic comments heard recently. A lot is now starting to make sense.

 

Extended Episode Synopsis - This is War.

 

...so excited....

[fantique]

http://www.fox.com/watch/319874627632?cmp=user_post

 

This looks pretty interesting not necessarily news but more insight on new characters. It looks like they have an established plan (which is good).

Although I am iffy about a time jump.

Edited September 11, 2014 by fantique

[HalcyonDays]

Regarding the time jump, my prediction is that time in Purgatory runs at a different speed then time in the real world. Abbie and Ichabod will be in Purgatory for a short while, that may seem like a day or two to them (and to us viewers). When they get back into the real world though, it will actually be weeks or months that have passed.

 

Show, oh show...why must you trifle with my fragile Ichabbie feels...stop it...

 

Ichabbie in Purgatory.

 

My logical mind says nothing shall come of this, it's just a play and false tease for the viewers to draw them in. Bastards.

[kimberella]

Underwhelming spoilers. Think the EPs are doubling down on the Ichatrina stuff instead of being sensible and course correcting. Having painful flashbacks to early BtVS S6 when I realized that I had watched an entirely different show in S5 than what the EPs had intended...

They are doubling down on the Ichatrina stuff and on the Katrina by herself stuff too. I'm glad they listened to that overwhelmingly large part of the fandom, that demanded more Katrina and Ichatrina... Oh wait!

Whenever a show toots its own horn about "diversity" as much as this one likes to do, I'm usually skeptical and extra careful, because more often than not, it's a trick to tell a story about what they really care about, the white characters. Maybe this show won't go as far as killing off Abbie, because they didn't expect her to be liked as much as she is, but they definitely did their best to erode her role in the second half of last season, when they finally revealed the Cranes were their priority. Something they keep making clear in every interview about S2. No big surprise there though. It's not the first show to do this and it won't be the last.

But wait, what about that supposed romance between the new character and Abbie they promised? Sorry, but it won't work, they say, because she's too busy with saving the world. Ah, but somehow that doesn't apply to the white couple, the truest epic-est romance to ever exist. Just don't complain, okay? It doesn't matter that they talk about Abbie just as Crane's little helper and a working mule. Look at all this diversity!

In this diverse show, they have this incredibly gorgeous lead black actress, but who are they promoting as beautiful, sexy and center of all the romance? Clearly not Nicole/Abbie! Why would they though? She's playing the hard working black woman with a compassionate heart, whose job is to attend to Crane's every need and facilitate the lovers' eventual reunion. Lovely!

Thank god they'll still cater to Ichabbie shippers with fake kisses and constant teasing, because ratings! An actual wish to develop that into something meaningful? Not so much, that's what the white couple is for. It's a win-win situation for them, because those of us who crave real diversity will still conform with crumbs and those who have problems watching black characters in romantic situations won't have to deal with the ordeal :)

In the meantime, there is at least one very promising show, that doesn't go overboard claiming "diversity!" at every turn and that will very probably steal Sleepy Hollow's thunder, when it comes to dealing with the main black women as main characters: The Flash. I don't think the acting will be anywhere close to Sleepy Hollow, but in terms of honesty? Sleepy Hollow has already lost.

[HalcyonDays]

Well, actually that may be a most likely incorrect assumption based on what I've seen. In terms of promotion material, snippets and such, it has been ALL Ichabod and Abbie. To the point of people commenting that the show has released nothing on Katrina and Ichabod. From Hollywood premieres to ComicCons to pictures to official twitters to magazine articles to promos - everything that I've read and seen - it's all Abbie and Ichabod.

Katrina is actually being matched up with Abraham, to the point that the official Sleepy Hollow twitter actually tweeted a comment that their own fates were entwined.

 

Abbie and Ichabod are the co-leads. One cannnot exist without the other and the show knows that. In fact, if one piece of the puzzle were missing, the show would suffer greatly and the show knows that also. They want ratings. The only reason it works is the ridiculous chemistry between Mison and Beharie. The showrunners have even said that in season 2, they had to "move mountains" to ensure that Abbie and Ichabod are together as much as possible. That is quite telling.

 

Abbie is supposed to get two love interests. Corbin (and thus his relationship with Abbie) gets some love. They will delve into Abbie and Jenny's family - mother and father. Jenny is a regular cast member now.

 

All we can do is wait and see - One week to go!

[Crackedmuse]

Well, actually that would be a most likely incorrect assumption based on what I've seen. In terms of promotion material, snippets and such, it has been ALL Ichabod and Abbie.

 

True, but that is because you are only focused on the 99.99% of promo materials, trailers, panel discussions/interviews by cast/crew, magazine articles, photographs, posters, billboards, upcoming paperback and comic book releases, Tweets, Facebook, Instagram postings, etc., from the people actually involved in creating and marketing the show.

 

But if you could just ignore all that and concentrate instead on cherry picking certain key words, random sentences, phrases, or snippets of comments that can be misinterpreted/twisted to fit a particular trope/agenda from the remaining .000000001%, then I think you'd understand what Kimberella is saying.

[kimberella]

Well, actually that may be a most likely incorrect assumption based on what I've seen. In terms of promotion material, snippets and such, it has been ALL Ichabod and Abbie. To the point of people commenting that the show has released nothing on Katrina and Ichabod. From Hollywood premieres to ComicCons to pictures to official twitters to magazine articles to promos - everything that I've read and seen - it's all Abbie and Ichabod.

None of that has to do with how they're beefing up Katrina's role.

 

Katrina is actually being matched up with Abraham, to the point that the official Sleepy Hollow twitter actually tweeted a comment that their own fates were entwined.

Until she escapes, yes, she's with Abraham, because she's also his love interest (funny how they have time to explore that). Then she'll be back to her true love, Crane, which is fine with me. Can Abbie have her fun and romances as well?

 

Abbie and Ichabod are the co-leads. One cannnot exist without the other and the show knows that. In fact, if one piece of the puzzle were missing, the show would suffer greatly and the show knows that also. They want ratings. The only reason it works is the ridiculous chemistry between Mison and Beharie. The showrunners have even said that in season 2, they had to "move mountains" to ensure that Abbie and Ichabod are together as much as possible. That is quite telling.

I know, that's why they'll neve stop with the bait and switch. Once they realized they failed with the Cranes, they had to dangle a different carrot.

 

Abbie is supposed to get two love interests. Corbin (and thus his relationship with Abbie) gets some love. They will delve into Abbie and Jenny's family - mother and father. Jenny is a regular cast member now.

It looks like the love interests, at least the first one, is a whole lot of Luke-levels of nothing. Meaning, Abbie would like to, but she's too busy. However, it seems she'll somehow will find the time to be a servant for the Cranes again, because, in spite of her very exhausting job, no one else can go with Katrina to buy new clothes (spoiler from the producers). They really like Abbie in the position of little helper, don't they? I wonder why?

[DearEvette]

Extended synopsis of S02.E3.  Apparently Henry is Irving's lawyer.  How ...diabolical!

 

http://www.spoilertv.com/2014/09/sleepy-hollow-episode-203-root-of-all.html?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=b3rt4

[CinnamonCW]

They are doubling down on the Ichatrina stuff and on the Katrina by herself stuff too. I'm glad they listened to that overwhelmingly large part of the fandom, that demanded more Katrina and Ichatrina... Oh wait!

Whenever a show toots its own horn about "diversity" as much as this one likes to do, I'm usually skeptical and extra careful, because more often than not, it's a trick to tell a story about what they really care about, the white characters. Maybe this show won't go as far as killing off Abbie, because they didn't expect her to be liked as much as she is, but they definitely did their best to erode her role in the second half of last season, when they finally revealed the Cranes were their priority. Something they keep making clear in every interview about S2. No big surprise there though. It's not the first show to do this and it won't be the last.

But wait, what about that supposed romance between the new character and Abbie they promised? Sorry, but it won't work, they say, because she's too busy with saving the world. Ah, but somehow that doesn't apply to the white couple, the truest epic-est romance to ever exist. Just don't complain, okay? It doesn't matter that they talk about Abbie just as Crane's little helper and a working mule. Look at all this diversity!

In this diverse show, they have this incredibly gorgeous lead black actress, but who are they promoting as beautiful, sexy and center of all the romance? Clearly not Nicole/Abbie! Why would they though? She's playing the hard working black woman with a compassionate heart, whose job is to attend to Crane's every need and facilitate the lovers' eventual reunion. Lovely!

Thank god they'll still cater to Ichabbie shippers with fake kisses and constant teasing, because ratings! An actual wish to develop that into something meaningful? Not so much, that's what the white couple is for. It's a win-win situation for them, because those of us who crave real diversity will still conform with crumbs and those who have problems watching black characters in romantic situations won't have to deal with the ordeal :)

In the meantime, there is at least one very promising show, that doesn't go overboard claiming "diversity!" at every turn and that will very probably steal Sleepy Hollow's thunder, when it comes to dealing with the main black women as main characters: The Flash. I don't think the acting will be anywhere close to Sleepy Hollow, but in terms of honesty? Sleepy Hollow has already lost.

I do share some of those concerns. The spoiler about Abbie taking Katrina shopping worries me; they sure were able to work that in there, weren't they? Yes, the explanation that Abbie is too busy with the Apocalypse for love is obvious crap. This from someone that doesn't want to see relationship fluffiness and prefers Ichabbie Endgame! It was worse when Katia gave that same explanation when asked about Ichabbie, yet Katrina is also fighting the Apocalypse, right? But they're shoving Ichatrina down our collective throats. In fact I fear this will go to such manipulative lengths on the part of TPTB. This happened in 'Buffy' when Marti Noxon was put at the helm; she drew up an attempted rape scene as punishment for the audience when they didn't react the way she had wanted to the Buffy/Spike relationship.

(As an aside it seems like Nicole feels she must defend her chemistry with Tom and throw pity support at Ichatrina whereas Katia feels protected enough to say what she wants.)

That said, that is all it remains at this point: a concern. These spoilers are not in context, we don't really know what TPTB have up their sleeve with regards to Ichabod/Katrina or for that matter Abbie and the two potential love interests we've heard about (even if their explanation is shit), and on top of that we have spoilers about the new captain's connection to the Mills. So things could go the way of 'Twisted' with their woman of color character but that's all it is right now IMO - a possibility, even if it's a legitimate one. But thus far the writers have kept me pleasantly surprised.

Edited September 18, 2014 by CinnamonCW

[fantique]

This is a rant coming from a black young woman who is fed up. Warning: I have insomnia and have not slept for the past 72 hours so look away, this might get a little frantic but I need to get it out.

 

For Pete's sake can we get away from that whole "Ooh, the eeeeeviiiillll TPTB are carrying out their white supremacist agenda while distracting us by having a larger than usual part of cast that are not white". I mean seriously? If they are actually against non-whites working in the industry then they are the least effective racist and discriminative people EVER. First of all, I have never heard any of the execs or writers talk about how proud they are to have a cast that is racially diverse. That's the media. Even the actors try to stay away from that; Orlando Jones even said when asked if the show is going to address that, he answered (very genuinely and kind of blurted it out BTW, it was really funny. Nicole and Tom looked at him like "Alright, dude. Chill out." ) "I hope not!!!". I said that in another thread on this site regarding Diggle in Arrow; the character and the actor are both more than their skin colour and it is a disservice to both to reduce them to being only a skin colour.

If anyone is unhappy with the way Abbie has been handled, say that. If you feel that when they realised people don't like Katrina they try to show more of her and that impacts negatively on Abbie's development, just say that.  A lot of people don't like Katrina; trying to emphasise the point by bringing in racism is ineffective and unnecessary because most people would agree anyway that with Katrina, less is more fun. ETA: I am hoping that changes though because having a prominent character that's unappealing is a toll on the viewer and the show. I still have faith because last season was a half season really and she was away from the main action which is always awkward.

Also with regards to the love aspect, well the Cranes are already married... Meaning they shouldn't take as much screentime to show their relationship as it would if they just met and want to date. Most of the screentime the Cranes will spend together will probably have to do with the whole Apocalypse thing. They do have to work on the relation a bit to at least make it more watchable (I liked them in the flashbacks so it's possible) because that's either that or we have to resort FF watching or hate watching and that's sad... Plus, Abbie is awesome and her being single does not mean that she has nothing going for her. I am way more interested in her familial relationships than seeing her dating.

I think the writers didn't conceptualise Abbie and Crane being together (why would their initial concept for him would be of him with a wife otherwise) so they were taken by surprise and have to navigate around the problem of showing the witnesses getting along and bonding without veering into romantic territory, although i admit they are clumsy with it.

 

WRT Abbie taking Katrina shopping, a few things.

1) Oh no!!! How horrible! Abbie is nice to her friend's wife (who is also a witch which would be welcome in their magically inferior team)!!! How dare they? What are they thinking? -sarcasm-

2) If they are worried about projected tension between Abbie and Katrina because of the shipping, showing them friendly and getting along is a good way to dissipate that. I don't get why people seem wary of them hanging out. What's the alternative, Abbie ignoring her? Because that's not awkward at all.

3) Do you see Jenny taking anyone shopping? Lols

4) I hate when people bring servitude into it because most of the time it's pretty much projection. If Crane was helped by... I am trying to come up with anyone of the relevant characters who isn't white for this comparison and all I got is detective Jones (Morales' partner), would you talk about servitude? Because you can assume that she is being treated like a servant in helping the Cranes if there was any other that things could happen but no matter what happened and who ever was with Crane they would be teaching/helping with things in the 21st Century. It would have been the case if it was a man, woman, White, Black, Asian, etc. Actually I am pretty sure that if Abbie Mills was Abe Mills and there was be great chemistry and bromance there would be people shipping that too and still hating Katrina.

5)The argument that seals the deal (for me at least); they did not write this character with a black actress in mind. Nicole pretty much stumbled across the part, auditioned and got it; therefore the portion of the cast that is black would obviously be bigger since people related to her would be black. She basically did the only thing any individual belonging to a minority in a Western country should do that truly helps against informal discrimination: Be good. At whatever they do. Not bitching about how unfair life is and bringing it back to race every time she doesn't get a part. Not saying it hasn't happened, probably has since casting directors are often hung up on physical appearance not necessarily because racism is involved but if they want a redhead, pale skin girl or a blonde with blue eyes, etc...

To quote a fellow poster "I'll save my outrage for real racial injustices".

 

Also if you are going to call a group of people racist or accuse them of discrimination it's better to back it up with something other than your own interpretation of what's on the screen. With Sleepy Hollow, all the promotion I see is about Abbie and Crane and new monsters. Season 1, focus wise, I think they tried to go half-half with the first half being more about Abbie's life and background story and the second with Crane since the buildup would be leading to the 2 Horsemen being linked to him.

 

Anyway that's my spiel and I am sticking to it.

Edited September 19, 2014 by fantique

[Crackedmuse]

Fantique girl, get some sleep!

 

I, too, am a Black woman who understands your frustration, but you are missing the point.  These are not real concerns.  This is fill-in-the-blank agenda spinning.  Unfortunately, TWOP is gone, but if you could have seen the forum exactly one year ago these same "concerns" were posted by the same person prior to the Pilot airing and continued throughout the season - and will continue until Sleepy Hollow goes off the air no matter what happens - short of Abbie being anointed Queen of the Universe by God and everyone else sacrificing themselves in tribute.  The show itself is of no concern.  Any black actress that gets a job on any show will be scrutinized for something that can be spun into an example of servitude. (Except for certain shows by Tyler Perry which feature Black women in actual servitude)

 

This type of argument is called a Straw Man.  It's a diversionary tactic where one deliberately interprets events to fit a specific scenario in furtherance of the agenda.  Even if everything one supposedly wishes would happen actually happened, it would be followed by a "But... I suspect this was just a bone tossed to pacify certain segments of the audience and it will be back to business as usual shortly.  We'll see."  So do you understand?  Nothing will ever be satisfactory and nothing will ever be proven - because it's not meant to be.  The purpose is to create false drama.  And the truly unfortunate part of playing Straw Man, is that even normal concerns/character projections are invalidated by the blatant-ness of the agenda.  So ultimately, these arguments serve no purpose.  It's just a game looking for players to pick up a trope and run with it, in hopes the credibility of the duped will lend creedence to the nonsense.

Edited September 19, 2014 by Crackedmuse

[fantique]

CrackedMuse I shall endeavour to follow your advice oh wise one.

Re: Sleep, I am trying to. ToT... Seriously who doesn't get affected by neither caffeine nor sleeping pills. I give up.

Edited September 19, 2014 by fantique

[kimberella]

I'm sorry, fantique, but I do not agree with the idea that racism has to wear a white hood for me or anyone else to be affected by it or to grant me the right to talk about it. We'll have to agree to disagree here, because even if this is just entertainment, I think representation matters, not only in quantity, but in quality. To pretend Sleepy Hollow doesn't come after a long tradition of horrible racism in Hollywood, which is still very present, is disingenuous. Sleepy Hollow doesn't stand on its own. I'm not saying the showrunners or the show are raging racists, because, at least, they were capable of acknowledging Nicole's talent, but that doesn't mean they don't contribute to pervasive ideas, like strong black women not worthy of being loved romantically by the lead or anybody else most of the time (and that's not the only issue). Funny, since you mention Orlando Jones, he admitted this was one of those shows. Abbie can be a strong woman and have loving friendships, but a true romance is out of the question. It's wonderful that you don't care though.
 

That said, that is all it remains at this point: a concern.

A very valid concern, in my opinion, because all of this has happened before and it will happen again, and Sleepy Hollow is doing it.
 

So things could go the way of 'Twisted' with their woman of color character but that's all it is right now IMO - a possibility, even if it's a legitimate one. But thus far the writers have kept me pleasantly surprised.

No, I don't think they'll go full on Twisted on us, because they saw how that misfired and because they've already done more than enough. In spite of what some people say, when they decided to cast a black actress to be the co-lead, they also made some changes to the story they wanted to tell for obvious reasons. Mainly, Katrina's shelf life. You see, she wasn't meant to survive S1 or even the first version of the pilot. Now her role is not only going to be expanded, but completely rewritten to make up for the mess that was S1. I'm pretty sure this wouldn't have happened if the roles had been reversed. And now because her relevance cannot be supported only by Crane, they have to show the black female lead playing little helper... to the woman, who put her life in danger twice, who is a compulsive liar and who gave that infamous Happy Negroes speech in S1! All of this, while Abbie's role was significantly diminished in the latter half of last season, where she inexplicably became a subservient sidekick to Crane and supporting character. This is not a surprising development, but I'm sick and tired of it.

 

Lately, I've been thinking that the famous chemistry between the leads, while important, it hasn't benefited Abbie that much, because they still placed her in the role of little helper to the white romantic hero (and now also his wife!). Also, because behind the cute Ichabbie shipper senseless teasing, there is no real wish to develop it, but instead it does help them avoid developing a serious romantic story for Abbie and only for her. They've already acknowledged Nick's role is that of foil for Crane and not a real romantic interest for Abbie, because... work! But don't worry, because for those craving romance, S2 still has the Cranes reconnecting, after Crane deals with some distrust issues (latest spoiler!), because they are worthy of romantic love.

Even if this is just talk from them and they actually plan to give Abbie her own love story, develop her relationship with Jenny and develop her character with her own plots separated from Crane (just like they did with him), their current discourse is still problematic and seeing how S1 went, I'm not prepared to trust them. They haven't earned it.

 

This type of argument is called a Straw Man.  It's a diversionary tactic where one deliberately interprets events to fit a specific scenario in furtherance of the agenda.

This being preceded by such an over the top Straw Man argument makes this hilarious.

[formerlyfreedom]

We've drifted way off course from Spoilers and Spoiler Discussion in here. If you would like to continue the conversation, let's please take it over to the Race and Ethnicity on TV topic, which is where it is appropriate. Thanks, all, for your cooperation!

 

 

[fantique]

DELETED because L'Oréal.

Edited September 19, 2014 by fantique

[Crackedmuse]

This being preceded by such an over the top Straw Man argument makes this hilarious.

 

And your deliberate parsing of a sentence that was obviously meant to be an over-the-top poke at your endless over-the-top extrapolations - while ignoring everything else - is the very definition of Straw Man.  Attaching fantasy interpretations to real societal issues don't make them valid  - particularly when they are dependent on events playing into narrowly defined scenarios separate from the overall situation and in context to everything happening to every character.  It only makes such comments sound pseudo-valid to the uninitiated.  And silly diversionary mocking doesn't change that.

 

But clearly, after a full year of identical postings differentiated only by this week's "fill-in-the-blanks" you are committed to using/grasping/twisting anything from Sleepy Hollow or any show in an attempt to prove your Straw Man "truth."   And the only truly hilarious thing is how much your agenda seemingly blinds you to so much of what makes Sleepy Hollow entertaining - if you are indeed, actually interested in the show vs. Sleepy Hollow simply providing a convenient platform.

 

My commitment is not anywhere near that level.  This is an average sci-fi fantasy show with some very fun and entertaining things, but average nonetheless. So I've expended more energy than it warrants already and have nothing to add.

 

Have fun with The Flash.  Currently, Barry is lovesick over Iris and playing her "servant."  But I'm sure the TPTB are just baiting the audience and have plans to flip it on its head by episode five.

 

ETA: Sorry Stacy, I didn't see your post before I posted.  Feel free to move the discussion wherever.  I'm done here.

Edited September 19, 2014 by Crackedmuse

[Pacodakat]

I said that I wasn't going to watch this show this season but based on the spoilers I'm actually looking forward to the show tonight. I think I have to stay away from podcast and post that are too Ickatrina focused or too Icabbie focused. I am a shipper but I like the tease more than the relationships that develop on most shows. The romance always takes over the show in the end and all other cast members get the shaft. I want more crazy and more fish out of water scenes and it looks like some of the interactions with Icabod and the modern world will be awesome. I've gone from "whatever" to "Can't wait."

Edited September 22, 2014 by Pacodakat

[tv echo]

Question: Got anything on Sleepy Hollow? —Liz
Ausiello: Lyndie Greenwood tells TVLine that Jenny won’t be enamored of Sheriff Leena Reyes (played by House of Cards‘ Sakina Jaffrey), who debuts next week. A former Sleepy Hollow lawwoman, Reyes was around when Abbie and Jenny’s crazy mom was alive, but “Jenny doesn’t remember her, so when she finds out Reyes was around [before], she feels extremely betrayed,” the actress says. “She gets her guard up pretty quickly. She’s not a fan.” BONUS SCOOP: I hear that when Matt Barr’s Nick Hawley arrives on the scene, he’ll have a past connection to one Mills sister… but be interested in the other.

http://tvline.com/2014/09/23/outlander-season-2-spoilers-brianna-randall-cast/

[tv echo]

From the EW Spoiler Room...

What’s coming up on Sleepy Hollow? — Thom

Abraham will do his best to fill Katrina’s head with doubts about Ichabod and Abbie’s relationship in a bid to win her over, but she’s got a plan up her sleeve that could benefit several parties. Meanwhile, we’ll finally get to see what has happened to Irving after he took the fall for his daughter. Let’s just say that the new sheriff has big plans for Irving, none of which are good.

http://insidetv.ew.com/2014/09/26/spoiler-room-agents-shield-greys-anatomy-spoilers/

[tv echo]

Question: Some Sleepy Hollow scoop, please? —Becca
Ausiello: Next week’s hour spotlights money that has really bad mojo. “There’s a coin that Henry puts into circulation around Sleepy Hollow that starts turning people against the ones that they love and they start killing each other, as well,” Tom Mison tells TVLine, adding that the cash has ties to at least two other severely bad moments in human history. Oh, and the Mills sisters will fall under its evil spell.

 

Question: Anything Ichabod-related from Sleepy Hollow would be more than welcome, thanks. —Jane
Ausiello: Ichabod’s finally learning how to drive! In an upcoming episode, “We see Ichabod and Abbie swap seats,” says Mison, who recently got his own first driver’s license and admits that his lack of experience was evident during production. At one point, the show’s stunt coordinator hopped in the passenger’s seat to talk Mison through a sequence where he was the only person in the shot. “I made one of the leading stunt coordinators on the East Coast whimper,” the actor reports, laughing.

http://tvline.com/2014/09/30/the-vampire-diaries-season-6-spoilers-elena-kiss/

[tv echo]

Sleepy Hollow - Episode 2.03 - Root Of All Evil - Promo 2
Posted by Nirat Anop at Friday, October 03, 2014 
http://www.spoilertv.com/2014/10/sleepy-hollow-episode-203-root-of-all.html

[slade3]

Does anyone remember whether Hawley was cast as a future love interest for Abbie? I thought some of what I read before the season started indicated he was a friend of Jenny's, but would be attracted to Abbie. But so far, he seems more attracted to Ichabod than Abbie.

 

Don't get me wrong, I'm not a fan of insta-love, and I can certainly understand being attracted to both Ichabod and Abbie because they are pretty and have super chemistry, but Hawley (or the actor) doesn't ever look at Abbie with any appreciation of her beauty the way men tend to do, even when they are at odds with someone. The characters don't seem to have much chemistry either. Hopefully that's being purposely done, or I'm not seeing it but others are.

[Indi]

I disagree that Abbie and Nick don't have much chemistry. He has looked at her appreciatively a few times, so he's definitely attracted to her.

I wouldn't worry about him though. He was cast as a love interest at first, but it looks like they changed their minds and made him just a foil for Ichabod (because everything needs to be about him and to hell with Abbie). So they gave Nick a backstory that absolutely prevents Abbie from having a love story with him: he's Jenny's ex-lover. He might flirt a little with Abbie and create some conflict, but I doubt there will be more to the character.

[Iamsweetdee]

I hope this Nick isn't a love interest for Abbie. He looks gross, all dirty and grimy. 

[HalcyonDays]

I hope this Nick isn't a love interest for Abbie. He looks gross, all dirty and grimy. 

 

So has Ichabod at times. Happens when one is running around mucky forests or dank underground tunnels.

It's okay though - she can throw both of them in the shower to clean them up...assist in cleaning them up...just saying..

 

I think he will be a temporary love interest. It takes time to develop and get that connection between Abbie and Hawley. Abbie is guarded with almost everyone around her, as is Hawley, since his goal is profit. But the next episode and more, they'll get to know each other a bit more and connect.

 

It's all part of the theme for this season. When Katrina returns, it will put a wedge between Crane and Abbie, and thus most likely push Abbie to Nick. Same thing vise versa, Abbie getting closer to Nick is going to bother Crane a lot - more tension.

 

I actually really like Nick and the interactions, especially as I see him as a modern day copy of Crane, yet still the complete opposite to Crane, both in physical appearance and demeanour. Both are highly intelligent, though.

[Iamsweetdee]

IAMSWEETDEE, ON 15 OCT 2014 - 10:38 AM, SAID:

I hope this Nick isn't a love interest for Abbie. He looks gross, all dirty and grimy.

 

 

So has Ichabod at times. Happens when one is running around mucky forests or dank underground tunnels.

It's okay though - she can throw both of them in the shower to clean them up...assist in cleaning them up...just saying..

 

What does Ichabod have to do with my finding Nick gross? I find Nick gross because I find Nick gross. 

[Watermelon]

What does Ichabod have to do with my finding Nick gross? I find Nick gross because I find Nick gross. 

Your comment read as though you found Nick gross because of mud or dirt or a lack of clean t shirts. 

[blixie]

 

he's Jenny's ex-lover.

 

I don't recall that being stated in any of the episodes so far. Spoilers aren't canonical facts until they happen canonically. My understanding is that he has a  history with Jenny, but what that history constitutes has never been stated out right.

 

I don't love when people date around a family, but I really like Hawley and I haven't actually had to see him romantically all up on Jenny, so that would make it easier for me to see him with Abbie. Well that and I think he's a ton of fun, has great chemistry with both Abbie and Ichabod. While I think he is foil for Ichabod, I think *part* of  his being a foil is the way him bonding with Abbie on a personal level get's under Ichabod's skin (in a way such an EPICALLY married man shouldn't really have a problem with). I love seeing Ichabod jealous and insecure around the Privateer specifically because it is so totally about how much Abbie seems to be open to him. If Ichabod did bite it, she might still have other options to fight on with in the form of Hawley and Jenny and Irviing. All Ichabod has is his shady not particularly powerful witch of a wife.

 

I love the idea Abbie will have someone to count on other than Ichabod's sometimes trifling ass.

[DearEvette]

If Nick is Abbie's potential love interest I am really enjoying how they are introducing him.  Right now there is no discernible UST on either of their parts and that is good.  I would have hated if they had gotten their flirt on so early.  A) because it just wouldn't have been  very Abbie-like.  I think it has been pretty well established that she is very guarded about who she lets in and b) because it would've felt too much like obvious meta-commentary on how much the writers are trying to prove Ab & Ich aren't a couple. 

 

It also helps that the actor has good chemistry with both Ab & Ich.  I suspect that the potential love interest thing is the main reason we are seeing so much of him.  They need to establish a foundation that is more than just this guy who shows up randomly for artifacts rather quickly if they want to start to plant the seeds of a possible attraction. 

 

I think he will be a temporary love interest. It takes time to develop and get that connection between Abbie and Hawley. Abbie is guarded with almost everyone around her, as is Hawley, since his goal is profit. But the next episode and more, they'll get to know each other a bit more and connect.

 

It's all part of the theme for this season. When Katrina returns, it will put a wedge between Crane and Abbie, and thus most likely push Abbie to Nick. Same thing vise versa, Abbie getting closer to Nick is going to bother Crane a lot - more tension.

 

Yeah, this is where I kind of suspect they are going.  Ab & Ich have formed this lightning bond and it will get tested in a lot of ways.  Abraham has already planted the seeds in Katrina's head about Ab & Ich, unconsciously reinforcing what she has already witnessed herself.  And Abbie is already making Ichabod nervous with her talk of doubts and trust.  If Nick sweeps in romantically, especially as this guy who knows a lot about what they are up against, Ich could see him as a threat in a lot of different ways.  Even ways he never realized.  So the potential is there.

 

Re: Nick being Jenny's ex-lover.  I have heard that as well.  I wonder if they are going to stick with that or if they'd thought better of it?  Things can change from the time they tease stuff in interviews to the time it actually makes it on the screen.  I had read an early interview where Corbin's son was being teased a possible Abbie love interest, but now firmer spoilers closer to the actual air date of the episode he appears in puts him at much younger than Abbie (she babysat him) so I guess that got scrapped.

Edited October 15, 2014 by DearEvette

[slade3]

I'd never heard that Hawley was Jenny's ex, not even in the spoilers I've read about him, so this surprises me and makes it unlikely I'd be into a Hawley/Abbie hook-up.

 

I'm also against insta-love and much prefer a slow burn, but I asked because (for me) there is no chemistry between Hawley and Abbie. When the show first aired, I had no expectations for Abbie and Ichabod to possibly get together, but their chemistry was so strong from day 1, I wouldn't be surprised if they got together someday. 

 

Anyway, thanks for the info.

[topanga]

I'd never heard that Hawley was Jenny's ex, not even in the spoilers I've read about him, so this surprises me and makes it unlikely I'd be into a Hawley/Abbie hook-up.

 

When Jenny first mentioned "knowing a guy" who collected historical artifacts, she hinted that she knew him in the Biblical sense. I can't recall her exact words. And when Crane and Abbie told Hawley that they were referred to him by Jenny, Hawley's eyes kind of glossed over as he recalled knowing Jenny. Again, I can't recall his exact words. No smoking gun, but some strong supposition.

Edited October 16, 2014 by topanga

[SnarkyTart]

I'd like to see Hawley stick around mostly as a foil for Ichabod.  I think the show intends an Abbie/Ichabod romantic endgame, so it's my hope that they draw it out over many seasons, maybe only arriving there in the last season of the show, whenever that may be.  Having Hawley on board gives Ichabod another character he can interact with, both humorously and dramatically, and with whom he can develop chemistry.  Then the show can spend more scenes with just Abbie and Jenny.  I think finding logical reasons to slow down the Ichabbie while still letting the show be fun, rather than sending one of them for extended stays in Purgatory or some other contrivance to keep them apart, would make for a better long-term story.   I also wouldn't want the show to keep Abbie and Ichabod apart by forcing Ichabod to spend a lot of episodes chasing Katrina through a jungle screaming, "Walt!  Waaaalt!" <- Lost fans will understand that.

[tv echo]

Here's an interview with Matt Barr that talks about Nick Hawley's history with Jenny and his possible chemistry with Abbie...

 

SLEEPY HOLLOW: MATT BARR ON PLAYING NICK HAWLEY, "TREASURE HUNTER FOR HIRE"

BY ERIC GOLDMAN 29 SEP 2014

http://www.ign.com/articles/2014/09/29/sleepy-hollow-matt-barr-on-playing-nick-hawley-treasure-hunter-for-hire

[tv echo]

Question: What do you know about Henry’s plan on Sleepy Hollow? Why does he have that miniaturized version of the town? —Raj

Ausiello: “Every man has a hobby,” executive producer Len Wiseman jokes. “He’s orchestrating a bigger plot and bigger plan. Really, the [3-D] map of Sleepy Hollow is not that different from an operations board. It’s his creepy operations board with his plan.” Though Wiseman and showrunner Mark Goffman won’t spill much about what the Horseman of War has up his sleeve, Goffman does say that there’s a “really tense” scene in the midseason finale, and Henry is in it.

 

Question: When are we going to see Abbie and Jenny’s mom on Sleepy Hollow? —Courtney

Ausiello: Mid-November. Aunjanue Ellis will debut as Lori Mills in Episode 9, titled “Mama.” Fun fact, courtesy of Goffman: We were originally going to meet Lori in Purgatory in the premiere, but because the Season 2 opener was “a bit of an overstuffed sandwich,” that scene will now air as a dream sequence in Episode 9.

http://tvline.com/2014/10/14/glee-season-6-brittany-santana-spoilers-brittana/

 

I'm worried about Irving on Sleepy Hollow? Is he going to be OK?  — Heather

Actually, it turns out that selling your soul to the Horseman of War isn't all bad. "There's part of signing that contract that does work in his favor," executive producer Len Wiseman says. "As dark as that is, there's something in the offer that's quite hard to turn down. It is something that his character is going to have to struggle with because the temptation is not an easy one to turn his back on."

http://www.spoilertv.com/2014/10/latest-from-tv-guide-various-shows-14th.html

 

Sleepy Hollow - Episode 2.06 - And the Abyss Gazes Back - Promotional Photos

Posted by Ben at Thursday, October 16, 2014

http://www.spoilertv.com/2014/10/sleepy-hollow-episode-206-and-abyss_16.html

Edited October 17, 2014 by tv echo

[HalcyonDays]

Looks like for Monday's episode, we're going to get a small part character return! The redheaded lady at the reenactment that Ichabod stumbled upon (and got new clothes from) returns! The character's name is Caroline, played by Laura Spencer.

 

And I did not realize until right now that it's the same actress that now plays Raj's girlfriend Emily on The Big Bang Theory. Holy cow!! I love her on TBBT, and really liked her in the short scene with Crane. Awesome.

[Carrie Ann]

She's also Jane Bennet on The Lizzie Bennet Diaries web series, which is where I knew her from. She's adorable.

Edited October 18, 2014 by Carrie Ann

[Morrigan2575]

Any spoilers as to why Jenny has disappeared? Is it just so they can force the hottie into the show so Abbie has a love interest?

[phoenics]

Any spoilers as to why Jenny has disappeared? Is it just so they can force the hottie into the show so Abbie has a love interest?

 

Well so far, he's been a bro interest for Ichabod, lol.

 

The only thing I didn't like about the last episode was Jenny's absence.  I hope they don't do the whole Jenny/Nick/Abbie triangle - that will make me sick to my stomach.  If Ichabbie is never going to happen - then I do want Abbie to have a real, bonafide romance - but not like this!  Ugh!  I really don't see Abbie doing that - but I NEED the show to give Abbie a real love interest (if Ichabbie is never to be - hell, even if it is).  Enough of the black women on shows not produced by Shonda Rhimes being portrayed as strong, independent women with no love life (or if they do have one, it's all offscreen).  Enough.

[catrice2]

Excited about Max Brown being on the show!

[LeeLeePanda]

Abigail Adams is coming to Sleepy Hollow: http://insidetv.ew.com/2014/10/21/sleepy-hollow-michelle-trachtenberg/

[tv echo]

Question: Hey, my question is about Hawley on Sleepy Hollow. Does the show plan on making him a romantic interest for Jenny or Abbie? —Melissa
Ausiello: Hey, we asked Lyndie Greenwood the same thing, and while she maintains she’s “in the dark” about which Mills sister Hawley ultimately will pursue, she’s not worried, either way. “Abbie and Jenny have fought so hard for [their] relationship,” she says. “They have had way bigger problems than some dude coming into their life and upsetting things.” Still, expect at least a little sisterly static. “Of course, it’s an issue,” Greenwood previews.

http://tvline.com/2014/10/21/greys-anatomy-spoilers-amelia-addiction-season-11-ask-ausiello/

[slade3]

When Jenny first mentioned "knowing a guy" who collected historical artifacts, she hinted that she knew him in the Biblical sense. I can't recall her exact words. And when Crane and Abbie told Hawley that they were referred to him by Jenny, Hawley's eyes kind of glossed over as he recalled knowing Jenny. Again, I can't recall his exact words. No smoking gun, but some strong supposition.

You were right. And I'm definitely disappointed. I was looking forward to Abbie having a man to flirt with, but I can't get excited about a man her sister has already been with. 

[Elsinore]

Isn't she like ten years old?

[Danny Franks]

You were right. And I'm definitely disappointed. I was looking forward to Abbie having a man to flirt with, but I can't get excited about a man her sister has already been with. 

 

Abbie can do better than that callous brigand for hire. Never mind the fact that the dude just kind of sucks anyway. But with Ichabod's own romantic melodrama going on, I'd much rather the show kept Abbie's life nonsense free and professional, for the time being. The world's in danger, there'll be time for all that later.

[phoenics]

Abbie can do better than that callous brigand for hire. Never mind the fact that the dude just kind of sucks anyway. But with Ichabod's own romantic melodrama going on, I'd much rather the show kept Abbie's life nonsense free and professional, for the time being. The world's in danger, there'll be time for all that later.

The world is always in danger - and if Ichabod can have romance during all of that, then it's only fair that Abbie get some love too. Though I really don't want it to be Nick... if they do plan on giving Abbie an engaging love story, then I'd rather they give her one that doesn't involve a man who has been with her sister. That doesn't read as realistic to me and it would seem OOC for Abbie to do that to Jenny with all they've gone through. Seeing strife based on that makes me upset.

[Danny Franks]

The world is always in danger - and if Ichabod can have romance during all of that, then it's only fair that Abbie get some love too. Though I really don't want it to be Nick... if they do plan on giving Abbie an engaging love story, then I'd rather they give her one that doesn't involve a man who has been with her sister. That doesn't read as realistic to me and it would seem OOC for Abbie to do that to Jenny with all they've gone through. Seeing strife based on that makes me upset.

 

Ichabod isn't having romance, which was kind of my point (and probably a big part of his problem). He's having an angst-filled storyline that's based on romantic precepts, and even that is taking up too much of the show for my liking.

 

And so far, the lack of romance has been refreshing, for a network show. Like io9 pointed out in their latest recap, the scene between Jenny and Tall N. Bland is about the steamiest thing we've seen on the show.

[Indi]

The world is always in danger - and if Ichabod can have romance during all of that, then it's only fair that Abbie get some love too. Though I really don't want it to be Nick... if they do plan on giving Abbie an engaging love story, then I'd rather they give her one that doesn't involve a man who has been with her sister. That doesn't read as realistic to me and it would seem OOC for Abbie to do that to Jenny with all they've gone through. Seeing strife based on that makes me upset.

This. Ichy's main plot is his EPIC romance with his wife. Whether it's working or not is not the issue, it has been shown on screen and they'll keep showing it. Abbie, a beautiful young woman, should have her own love story, too. Abbie hardly ever has any focus on her own, her past romances are only references and they show nothing on screen. I find this profoundly unsettling, even more so after people pointed out how problematic it is that she's presented as just yet another strong black woman underserving of romantic love. Unlike Tom, Nicole has no chemistry issues with other actors. They should cast someone handsome and charismatic to be her love interest for the duration of the show. Nick will not do, as much as I like him.

[Badsamaritan]

The last thing I see in the portrayal of Abbie is someone undeserving of love. She's too good for any of the men she's met, including the current incarnation of Ichabod. I agree with another poster, Ichabbie are end game and Katrina is their current long term cock blocker. Their is no 'epic love' between Ichabod and Katrina - her true self is a complete stranger to everyone including the audience. I think she's one of the writers long cons.

In the meantime, there will be other love interests for Abbie, when she's damn well good and ready and on her terms. She's practical, and methodical, and she keeps a lover at arm's length because she still doesn't fully trust people not to let her down. I think if the show stays on long enough we'll see not only a true contender for her affections, the story will shift to where Ichabod and Katrina are no longer together (for whatever reason) and he is on the outside looking in. But he'll also be turning into the man Abbie deserves. The real 'EPIC LOVE' is the one that was born 200 years and 1 day shy of Abbie leaving Sleepy Hollow, and her true destiny, forever. :-)

[HalcyonDays]

I agree with another poster, Ichabbie are end game and Katrina is their current long term cock blocker. Their is no 'epic love' between Ichabod and Katrina - her true self is a complete stranger to everyone including the audience. I think she's one of the writers long cons.

 

*slow clap for awesomeness* Yeah, I'm on this side too. Ichabod is blinded by his notions of love for his wife. It's not an unheard of thing, and is honourable, if one didn't see how shady and untrustworthy Katrina truly is. I haven't seen anything that resembles romantic scenes between Katrina and Ichabod yet - which is why this so called storybook romance is failing to convince me. But maybe that's the overall point. Nothing has shown me of this. I get more flirty vibes and intimacy between Abbie and Ichabod then I have ever gotten from Ichabod and Katrina.

 

Abbie will get her storyline. Very soon. Let's just say that if some of the hints and behind the scenes stuff I have read are true - dammit, stuff happens for Abbie. And rightfully so. However, the show is NOT about romance, or perfect dramatic relationships. It is about two chosen people who have been tasked with stopping the Apocalypse. The relationships that are portrayed in their lives are ancillary events or circumstances that end up affecting how the two core witnesses deal with their mission in life. That's it. On top of that, their own personal experiences and knowledge will influence that particular fight. In terms of relationships, one's wife affects how they deal, and one's sister AND soon to be boyfriend/whatever will affect how they deal.

 

This is not the Abbie Mills Show, nor is it the Ichabod Crane Show. it is Sleepy Hollow, which involves two leads who have to deal with crap in their lives, both personal and life threatening, and learn how to juggle it and handle it, whilst working to be true and trustworthy to each other, all the while dealing with external forces pulling them in different directions.

 

Speculation: based on some things I have read, it looks like Katrina will be still trying to redeem Henry, while Abbie is like  - uh no (smart woman) and Ichabod is torn between them. What kills me is this. Who gives Katrina - and Ichabod for that matter - the right to play God and pick and choose who should live or die? We've already seen a rising body count due to Henry's actions. What, so his life is so much more important that the countless others of Sleepy Hollow? Please.

 

Kill one, save many.

 

I just came off watching the Walking Dead, so my mindset is totally biased right now. But truly, not everyone is redeemable. Take out those useless to humanity. No matter who they are. C'mon Ichabod, I expect better from you.

[phoenics]

So apparently Katia Winter on twitter is baiting Ichabbie shippers with a tweet meant to suggest that Katrina is being offed. We already know that she isn't - so I find this tweet to be confusing - does Katia not know that many of us online are spoiled?

https://twitter.com/katia_winter/status/527147272984092672

Anyone want to take a guess at what she's hoping to accomplish? Trolling? *shrugs*