Ray: Momma's Boy

[David T. Cole]

I wish I could type out my Ray Romano impression. 

[FormerMod-a1]

I wish you could too.  

While Ray was often shown as being lazy, I loved that he was just so into his wife.  So many sitcoms previously had men not being interested in even sex with their wives.  Granted, being more supportive around the house might have made that easier.

[random chance]

I thought the same thing - it was so cool that he was still madly in love with her.  You can always hire a cleaning service, but you can't hire someone to be madly in love with you twelve years later. 

 

I thought about this thread title the other day when I happened to watch the episode where Amy tries to help Robert with his "chin problem" and he gets really pissed and goes home to Mother like a housewife in some old movie from the fifties.  Robert's the momma's boy. 

[CleoCaesar]

Ray? Madly in love with Debra? I never, ever got that from him or their marriage. He seemed more in love with having sex with her whenever was convenient for him and resisted spending any meaningful time with her or their kids.

 

Ray and Robert are both momma's boys. A cautionary tale to all women everywhere.

[schnauzergirl]

Never did it occur to me that Ray was madly in love with Debra.  Granted, he had a mountain of problems expressing emotions, but even taking those into account, Ray comes across to me as somebody more in love with himself than anyone else.  I know a couple of times he talks about Debra doing a lot around the house and with the kids, but that could describe a housekeeper/nanny.  

[ByTor]

I'll third this sentiment. I certainly believe Ray loved Debra, but I never got an "in love" vibe, let alone madly in love. 

 

I'm trying to think of the nicest thing Ray ever did for her, and what comes to mind was when he arranged to have their vows renewed after he screwed up & taped the Super Bowl (I don't care if it was the Super DUPER Bowl!) over their wedding video.  Even then, he couldn't be bothered to write vows.  He did remember her favorite flower, which was impressive, but I still would have been upset about the vows.  Debra was also a MUCH better person than I would have been when Ray got the honorary degree & didn't mention her in his speech.  I don't know if I would have been so much angry rather than hurt.  I know I can go off on Debra at times, but she did put up with a lot from Ray.

[random chance]

Debra didn't have to make a stink about the honorary-degree speech because she knew Amy would tell Ray for her, which was a typical passive-aggressive Debra move. And in that same episode he said that marrying her was a dream come true, one of the many statements like that he made over the course of the series.

[ByTor]

As far as the honorary degree goes, to me, it doesn't matter who made the stink to Raymond, the fact that he left her out was bad enough.  Personally if that were me I'd be more likely to cry than make a stink about it. If knowing Amy would make the fuss is a passive aggressive move by Debra (although I didn't see it that way), I think she earned it that time. Believe me, most of my posts are anti-Debra & more often than not I roll my eyes & say "bitch" at much of what she does on the show, but in this instance I felt sorry for her.

[CherryAmes]

I just saw this episode and I didn't think Debra expected Amy to say anything.  Maybe she should have realized Amy might but there's no way she was setting things up.  And really even if she had I wouldn't have blamed her one bit - besides all Amy did was say a quiet word in Ray's ear, it was Robert who made a huge stink because he couldn't wait to gloat over Ray screwing up even if it meant embarrassing Debra.  Ray did try to make amends though with a really nice little tribute in his column.  Of course Marie and Robert couldn't even let Debra have that.

[SpiritSong]

Ray? Madly in love with Debra? I never, ever got that from him or their marriage. He seemed more in love with having sex with her whenever was convenient for him and resisted spending any meaningful time with her or their kids.

 

Ray and Robert are both momma's boys. A cautionary tale to all women everywhere.

Totally agree with all of this. Ray cared about Ray far more than he ever cared about Debra. Getting his own desires met was always his first priority. Second priority was catering to his mother. The happiness of his wife and children wasn't something he usually bothered to even consider.

[CherryAmes]

I just saw the episode where Debra is running for president of the school council and Ray doesn't vote for her.  It really bugged me that they had everybody angry at Ray for not voting for his own wife but then they twist things around so that Debra looks bad because she told people she didn't know Ray because she was embarrassed by his appearance and behavior.  Ray not voting for Debra was a really low, low thing and they addressed that for all of 30 seconds before they turned it into a well Ray did something mean and so did Debra so they're even.  No they weren't even at all!! 

[Milk-Eyed Mender]

That episode has two of my favorite lines! "I HAVE ALWAYS LIKED BEEF!!!" And "You were stuffing your pants with food!"

[SpiritSong]

I really do like the show and think all of the characters can be funny but Ray is my least favorite. He's lazy, manipulative, immature, self centered and worst of all, dishonest. He's constantly lying to Debra or about Debra. How could anyone stand to be married to a liar?

I actually think Frank is a better husband than Ray. At least he gets off his butt and fixes things around the house. He has absolutely no tact, but he's honest. He doesn't play games; if he wants something he asks for it outright. (Funyuns, Marie!)

And he can be counted on in an emergency.

[SusannahTaylor3]

I just saw the episode where Debra is running for president of the school council and Ray doesn't vote for her.  It really bugged me that they had everybody angry at Ray for not voting for his own wife but then they twist things around so that Debra looks bad because she told people she didn't know Ray because she was embarrassed by his appearance and behavior.  Ray not voting for Debra was a really low, low thing and they addressed that for all of 30 seconds before they turned it into a well Ray did something mean and so did Debra so they're even.  No they weren't even at all!! 

Honestly, they were both pretty bad in that episode. I can't think of anything redeemable about either of them. Ray was selfish and Debra was mean.  Debra for not wanting to acknowledge that Ray was her husband and Ray for not voting for his own wife because he would have to start helping out at home more often if she won.  Ray was being obnoxious at the meeting and why did he put the meat back when he was told that the meeting was starting. That was gross. He was touching the meat and getting ready to eat when he got called out.  It was obvious that he didn't want to be there and he was making sure everybody knew. In a way I can see how Debra would be embarrassed for him.  That's one episode that I don't think the blame should be  all on Ray.

Totally agree with all of this. Ray cared about Ray far more than he ever cared about Debra. Getting his own desires met was always his first priority. Second priority was catering to his mother. The happiness of his wife and children wasn't something he usually bothered to even consider.

I agree, because Marie only cared about Ray so he learned that the world revolved around him and expected his wife to feel the same way. I'm not sure Ray catered to his mom because he cared for her. I think she stroked his ego and he wanted that to keep happening so he catered to her so it would continue. Most of the time she was the only one who came to Ray's defense. He loved his kids and Debra. I just think he didn't know how to express it or even show it. Look who his parents are especially his dad. He really didn't have a good role model for what a good dad or husband was like.

Frank called them Nancy or told them to get over it and not to show emotion.

I wish you could too.  

While Ray was often shown as being lazy, I loved that he was just so into his wife.  So many sitcoms previously had men not being interested in even sex with their wives.  Granted, being more supportive around the house might have made that easier.

He was into her for what she could do for him (sex). Plus, she was considered hot by his friends and it stroked his ego to know that she would choose him  over someone else. He didn't think he deserved her.

Edited August 18, 2014 by SusannahTaylor3

[Inquisitionist]

Happy birthday to Ray Romano!  Looking good at 58.  ;-)

[Homily]

And really even if she had I wouldn't have blamed her one bit - besides all Amy did was say a quiet word in Ray's ear, it was Robert who made a huge stink because he couldn't wait to gloat over Ray screwing up even if it meant embarrassing Debra.

 

Amen.  I've been watching the last couple of seasons on DVD and Robert is just awful -  for one thing Brad Garrett shouts most of his lines - but the character takes every opportunity to take a swipe at Ray and in the process hurts Amy, Debra and everyone else who gets in his way.  You'd think by the time he is happily married, well established in a career and pushing 50!!!! he would have made his peace with the whole "Mom always loved you best" thing but instead it gets worse.

[ByTor]

Robert is just awful

I really disliked Robert n that episode where they got Marie the figurines for her birthday. He rambled on about Ray being a "glory hog" because he paid more for the gift, but actually nobody would have known if Robert hadn't opened his big yap about it.  Then he goes on to relish squealing that Debra's Christmas gift was Robert's idea just to hurt Ray, the hell with how that would make Debra feel.  Amy should have run, not walked, away from him at that point!

[millennium]

Ray is self-centered.  Deborah is a shrew.   Frank is a boor.   Marie is the mother of all mothers-in-law.   Robert is almost Biblical in his jealousy of his younger brother (Esau and the older brother of the prodigal son). 

They're ALL awful people, but likable as characters because in them we see the worst of ourselves.   The fact that we may be guilty of similar behavior to some degree enables us to laugh it off.    That's what make the show work.

[ByTor]

The only one I can't find likeable is Frank.  Not only is he boorish, but he's borderline mentally abusive toward Marie.  In The Toaster, for example, I always cringe when he's telling her to shut her mouth in front of the customer service people at Bloomingdale's.  I also felt like his digs toward Marie would have been funny if they would have tempered it a bit, but as it was he insulted her SO often that I always roll my eyes during Marie's Vision when Frank says you "don't need glasses" to see that he loves her.  I always say out loud, no, it's more like you need a microscope to see it.

[qtpye]

Yeah, it always felt like Frank hated Marie.  When Marie would brag to Debra about what an awesome wife and mother she was, I wanted Debra to pipe up and say, "Then why does your husband despise you?".

 

Learning their backstory, it felt like Frank married Marie, because she was pregnant and resented the hell out of her.  I did think Marie loved Frank, but since her affection was not returned, was probably the reason she doted so much on Raymond.

[Homily]

I just saw the hamster episode and it really bothered me how nasty Ray was to Debra throughout the entire show, putdown after putdown and she just took it from him.  It was odd really because Debra doesn't usually take Ray's crap and that's one of the things I like about her character.  In this episode though Ray is a jerk until the very end when he has his little epiphany when he is touched by Allie's tribute to "pumpernickel".  Come to think of it we have quite a few episodes where Ray is a "grumpy pain in the ass" until the end of the episode where he redeems himself and it's like all his moody self centred meanness doesn't matter anymore because now Ray's nice.  Debra didn't call him idiot often enough!

[ByTor]

There were 2 episodes where Ray's attitude was so bad it made me angry (I know I shouldn't react that way to a sitcom haha).  There was "Be Nice," which I overall like, but I wanted to smack him in the head at the beginning when he was following Debra around whining that he couldn't find his newspaper while she was trying to have a phone conversation.  The other was "Italy," where Debra called him a grumpy pain in the ass (referenced by @Homily) because that's exactly what he was, yet at the end when he decided to enjoy himself, everybody was supposed to just forget how horrible he was.  Honorable mention goes to "The Getaway," when Ray & Debra went to a bed & breakfast and he acted like all he wanted to do was get the trip over with; he even said guys in weekend lockup at the prison were better off.  What was it about vacations that made Ray so miserable???

[BogoGog24]

I found an episode where his behavior might be even worse. I just watched "A Vote for Debra" last night where he doesn't vote for her in the school election. To make matters worse, he not only didn't vote for his own wife, but he voted for a guy he hates, and he also voted against her simply because if she won it would mean he would have to take care of the kids at night. He was so adverse to taking care of his own children that he would vote against his own wife for something he knew she really wanted. 

The other episode where I think his behavior is downright sick is "Angry Sex" where he makes Debra angry on purpose because the sex is better. Sick, twisted, manipulative, and I think a bit out of his character, even for him. What were the writers thinking with these 2 storylines? I realize they probably thought the more ridiculous, the better/funnier, but it also comes across as unrealistic and really unbelievable. How can a husband do things like that to his own wife yet love her at the same time as much as the writers portray him as? 

[FormerMod-a1]

As I'm sure you've heard, all the stories are real stories from someone on the writing staff, exaggerated for TV I'm sure.  But since this is a show about one family, they all get piled on to a few characters.

[ByTor]

6 hours ago, BogoGog24 said:

To make matters worse, he not only didn't vote for his own wife, but he voted for a guy he hates, and he also voted against her simply because if she won it would mean he would have to take care of the kids at night.

Same reason why he didn't want Debra to get a job in Working Girl.

[GreekGeek]

On 7/29/2016 at 4:53 PM, ByTor said:

 The other was "Italy," where Debra called him a grumpy pain in the ass (referenced by @Homily) because that's exactly what he was, yet at the end when he decided to enjoy himself, everybody was supposed to just forget how horrible he was.  Honorable mention goes to "The Getaway," when Ray & Debra went to a bed & breakfast and he acted like all he wanted to do was get the trip over with; he even said guys in weekend lockup at the prison were better off.  What was it about vacations that made Ray so miserable???

My dad was the same way on vacations; he just wanted to go to our beach house so he could fish. Some people just don't deal well with being in unfamiliar places--they don't like the different food, the bed that isn't theirs, the surroundings they don't know. It's a control issue. Come to think of it, both Ray and Marie have control issues. Hers tend more to controlling people; Ray's to controlling his environment.

[Inquisitionist]

I think with Ray, a lot of his aversion to new experiences stems from insecurity.  He's always afraid he'll say or do the wrong thing.  Which, of course, makes him more likely to put his foot in it.  :-)

[qtpye]

On 7/30/2016 at 3:27 PM, ByTor said:

On 7/30/2016 at 8:58 AM, BogoGog24 said:

To make matters worse, he not only didn't vote for his own wife, but he voted for a guy he hates, and he also voted against her simply because if she won it would mean he would have to take care of the kids at night.

Same reason why he didn't want Debra to get a job in Working Girl.

Do you remember how filthy Ray let the house get, just because Debra got a part time job?  He must really think any type of housework is beneath him to let it get that bad...heck even the laziest person in the world would have at least washed the dirty pan instead of hiding it in the oven.

[ByTor]

He just threw that pan with the dried on cheese in the oven...yuck :(

[Homily]

What I didn't understand about that episode was was Ray home all day looking after the kids?  Why wasn't he at work and Marie was the designated sitter?  Did they explain that and I missed it?

[CherryAmes]

I just saw that episode a few weeks ago and unless they cut something (which wouldn't surprise me) they never explain why Debra is at work and Ray is home.  Unless it was just that Ray got home earlier than Debra - which if true makes the state of the house even more shocking!!

[ByTor]

2 hours ago, Homily said:

What I didn't understand about that episode was was Ray home all day looking after the kids?  Why wasn't he at work and Marie was the designated sitter?  Did they explain that and I missed it?

Was this after Ray started working from home?  But if it were, Marie's "latchkey children" comment wouldn't have made sense.  I guess the continuity fairy had that day off :)

[CherryAmes]

I'm pretty sure Ray only worked from home for that one day.  Which always made me wonder how he explained things to the boss - especially given he got special equipment including the satellite dish because he was supposed to be working from home.

[readster]

Ray working from home was never really clarified. Is he the only reporter in any avenue to work from home if circumstances called for it? Of course not. However, it seem that if Ray "needed" to work from home he could, but couldn't make a habit of it. 

[ByTor]

On 8/1/2016 at 9:29 PM, readster said:

Ray working from home was never really clarified. 

It really wasn't.  When "Aunt" Serina stayed over, Debra said she was staying in Ray's office, and there was the one where the one twin kept skipping school & he was home with Ray.  But yeah, maybe it was a case of him having a home office that he could work from when needed, and maybe offscreen the satellite dish bills were changed to Ray's name.

[Homily]

I thought they made it clear that Ray only worked from home for one day in that single episode.  He was a writer so it made sense that sometimes he could do some of his research and writing at home, either because he wanted to or because Debra needed him to stay home like in the episode where Michael is missing school, but that's not the same thing as not going into an office very day.

IRL he'd probably have to do some fast talking with the boss or maybe even offer to pay for the satellite himself or whatever but since it's a sitcom it all just got forgotten by the next episode.

Edited August 3, 2016 by Homily

[readster]

2 hours ago, Homily said:

I thought they made it clear that Ray only worked from home for one day in that single episode.  He was a writer so it made sense that sometimes he could do some of his research and writing at home, either because he wanted to or because Debra needed him to stay home like in the episode where Michael is missing school, but that's not the same thing as not going into an office very day.

IRL he'd probably have to do some fast talking with the boss or maybe even offer to pay for the satellite himself or whatever but since it's a sitcom it all just got forgotten by the next episode.

That's exactly it. The easiest way they could have done it in the main episode where Ray's office was the focus of establishing. It could have just been: "I'll work at home on a need to basis or at least 2 times a month." I mean my father-in-law as of 2003 had to work at home every other friday or monday before he retired as it was cheaper on the company and if something happened why had to be home for. It wasn't a problem with anyone. I do the same during the summer since I'm in education and work 12 months, but I don't have to be in the building every single day. As long as my hours are logged and I have evidence of working those hours. Then there is no problem. It just was made a big deal. The followed up on sparingly when the writers needed Ray to work from home because he HAD to be at home. 

[Marco]

I don't find Ray's self-centered, mamma's boy personality and his over intrusive mother funny at all. 

[Guest]

Spin-off from the Debra thread....  I'm going to list 5 episodes I thought showed that Ray isn't a bad husband/father. Then I'm going to list the 5 I would use to show he's a terrible husband/father.

He's good!

1) Home From School - he tried disciplining Michael, but then took the time to listen and talk to him and make him feel better

2) Ally's dress - whether or not buying the $250 dress was a good move, he was only motivated by making his daughter happy.  And she was.... until the end

3) Cookies - Hapless or not, he's the only dad at the Girl Scouts' meeting and he helped sell cookies.  He wanted Ally to do well (and to beat Peggy).

4) Left back - He's involved enough to go to preschool parent-teacher conferences, so he's clearly not completely checked out.  You can tell he wants to do what is right for the boys even when he struggles with it.

5) The Sigh - he wants Debra to be happy, so he's willing to give up their space to make it her space. Even though it didn't work well, it was a sweet gesture.

He's bad!

1) Alone Time - if for no other reason than the mustache jokes.

2) Boys' Therapy - lying to go to the tracks for weeks on end is awful

3) The Bigger Person - him and Frank conspiring to get more out of their wives by leveraging the fight is pretty bad

4) A Vote for Debra - she's no prize in this one either, but voting against your wife is pretty bad!

5) Fighting In-laws- he takes SO MUCH joy in her parents fighting and separating. It's so inconsiderate to Debra.

[ByTor]

56 minutes ago, deaja said:

Alone Time - if for no other reason than the mustache jokes.

I wanted to duct tape Ray's mouth shut over those never-ending mustache jokes!  And is he really THAT clueless that he doesn't know women get facial hair?

[Guest]

2 minutes ago, ByTor said:

I wanted to duct tape Ray's mouth shut over those never-ending mustache jokes!  And is he really THAT clueless that he doesn't know women get facial hair?

Or clueless enough to think it is something to be joked about?!?

[ByTor]

Just now, deaja said:

Or clueless enough to think it is something to be joked about?!?

ESPECIALLY if it was during Debra's "ladies' days" :)

[CherryAmes]

58 minutes ago, deaja said:

Fighting In-laws- he takes SO MUCH joy in her parents fighting and separating. It's so inconsiderate to Debra.

Was this the one where Ray kept pulling Twix bars out of his pockets?  In that one at first I thought Ray was just being oblivious Ray and not realizing how his reaction was affecting Debra but then later when they are talking and he says "you're the product of a broken home" it was obvious he knew how upset she was and he just didn't really care as long as he could get a joke out of it.  I know, I know, sitcom :).

[Guest]

@CherryAmes, I don't remember the Twix bars in particular, but I do remember him cracking joke after joke when Debra is obviously hurt.  I can barely watch that episode because he bothers me so much!

[ByTor]

31 minutes ago, CherryAmes said:

Was this the one where Ray kept pulling Twix bars out of his pockets? 

No, it was Separation that had the Twix bars:

[CherryAmes]

I swear I watch this show to death but if it isn't the twix bars episode (the one with the cowboy themed birthday party where Lois tells Debra she and Warren are separating) which episode is it?  The one where the parents claim to be going to Switzerland but are really going for marriage counselling in New Jersey (the just give up state)?  Because in that one while I agree Ray took a lot of pleasure in Debra's parents turning out not to be so perfect after all it gave us so many awesome lines I just laugh and go with the flow :).

[BogoGog24]

Another “good Ray” episode I would add is “Hackidu” where he went in the rain to get the card Ally wanted and spent an absurd amount of money on it.

A “bad Ray” episode for me is “Angry Sex”, where he makes Debra angry on purpose because the sex is better. 

[ByTor]

1 hour ago, CherryAmes said:

I swear I watch this show to death but if it isn't the twix bars episode (the one with the cowboy themed birthday party where Lois tells Debra she and Warren are separating) which episode is it?  The one where the parents claim to be going to Switzerland but are really going for marriage counselling in New Jersey (the just give up state)?  Because in that one while I agree Ray took a lot of pleasure in Debra's parents turning out not to be so perfect after all it gave us so many awesome lines I just laugh and go with the flow :).

The Twix one was Separation, the one with the cowboy party.  The Thanksgiving one where they lied about going to Baden Baden & were actually going to Piscataway for marriage counseling was Fighting In-Laws. 

[VCRTracking]

I also smile or laugh in uncomfortable emotional moments so I don't blame Ray. I also can't help laughing over the "path to divorce" bit and imagining him "signs in a forest saying 'Divorce this way!' Three little pigs this way!'

A good Ray episode is "The Sitter" where the kids love the fun teenage babysitter Lisa and Debra felt threatened and let her go so Marie ended up watching them and she broke her ankle and Debra felt guilty:

Ray: Would you stop that! Will you come on? You don't have to compete with some babysitter. You're Mommy, huh? The kids love Mommy. Every time I want to do something with them, they always yell, "We'd rather have Mommy!"

Debra:(wiping tears) Oh, yeah right, they yell that.

Ray: Yes! Yes! "We prefer Mommy!" "All things being equal, where's Mommy?"

Debra(laughing)Shut up.

Ray: Come on, you're you're number one.

Edited January 6, 2018 by VCRTracking

[WildStyle]

11 hours ago, VCRTracking said:

I also smile or laugh in uncomfortable emotional moments so I don't blame Ray. I also can't help laughing over the "path to divorce" bit and imagining him "signs in a forest saying 'Divorce this way!' Three little pigs this way!'

A good Ray episode is "The Sitter" where the kids love the fun teenage babysitter Lisa and Debra felt threatened and let her go so Marie ended up watching them and she broke her ankle and Debra felt guilty:

Ray: Would you stop that! Will you come on? You don't have to compete with some babysitter. You're Mommy, huh? The kids love Mommy. Every time I want to do something with them, they always yell, "We'd rather have Mommy!"

Debra:(wiping tears) Oh, yeah right, they yell that.

Ray: Yes! Yes! "We prefer Mommy!" "All things being equal, where's Mommy?"

Debra(laughing)Shut up.

Ray: Come on, you're you're number one.

Then he finds out Debra let Lisa go for good, and gets mad about her "stupid insecurities." lol oh Ray