S14: Fiji

[Whimsy]

Here is your Survivor S14 topic.

[cherrypj]

Lord, this season is awful. Rocky is right up there with the asshats from World's Apart.

 

Yes, I'm one episode away from the Comeuppance, and I will enjoy watching that. Yes, Yau-man and Earl are super good together and separately. But they're not saving this season.

[cherrypj]

Ah, crap on a stick! I don't hear very well (like, at all), so I watch with captions. Season 14, episode 10 didn't have captions (at Amazon)! So disappointing. 

 

There were some subtitles, like Stacy saying, "Why don't we vote out Edgardo?" And of course, I can see the face falling moments, which were priceless. But it wasn't the same. Not even close.

 

I did read Miss Alli's recap; I also have this sublime Linda Holmes article (yes, they're one and the same); even Funny or Die has an outstanding treatment on this episode.

 

But I wanted to watch it. :(

 

(Seriously, that Linda Holmes article is outstanding. Here's a choice quote:

 

And then he reads the first vote for Edgardo, and the greatest sequence of facial expressions maybe in the history of television ensues. Edgardo's face deflates. Alex's face deflates. Earl grins and nods. GAAAAAAH IT'S STILL SO GOOD.

 

Go read it.)

[cherrypj]

All right, finally finished this one. I guess you could say: "Bad first half, nice second half." You could totally see Earl counting the money at the F4 vote, when "Dreamz" decided to hang on to his immunity necklace. I would have liked to see a F3 of Yau-man, Earl, and Cassandra--it would have been much closer a vote.

Speaking of "Dreamz," I don't dislike him. He was a young kid, spectacularly ill-equipped for the game. His mistake was taking the truck, not refusing to give up the immunity.

I seriously don't like watching assholes, though, so Rocky and the three of the Four Horseasses really ruined the season for me. The scenery was awful too--so brown, it was really surprising.

I didn't mind the have/have-not twist either, but next time, maybe make winning the immunity challenge a condition of living there.

On to the next one!

Edited April 16, 2016 by cherrypj

[Hera]

I was never convinced that Yau-Man wanted the truck that much. I mean, I'm sure he could have sold it on for a pretty penny, but given that he was working at UC Berkeley at the time, I think he probably had a pretty comfortable life already and I suspect dealing with the car when he got home was probably going to be more hassle than it was worth to him, whereas it seemed like Dreamz might actually get some good use out of it. I'm not saying that it wasn't very nice of him to offer Dreamz the truck (and a savvy move to try to parlay that into safety in the game), but I do think that it wasn't a huge sacrifice for him. I don't hate Dreamz for reneging on that deal either.

 

Alex and Mookie were definitely assholes, but I always suspected that Edgardo was actually a good guy. I think it's a classic case of someone falling in with a bad crowd. If he had started out on a tribe with Earl and Yau-Man, he might have come across a lot better.

[fishcakes]

Even Alex didn't seem that bad to me, except for that ridiculous show he put on at FTC. During the majority of the game though, he didn't treat people badly and he did seem to be genuinely bothered by how shitty Lisi and Stacy were to Dreamz and Cassandra. Mookie, I'm not sure about. I remember his and Edgardo's laughable attempt to blackmail Yau about the HII, but other than that, was he an asshole? I kind of want to say yes, but I'm not sure why. Possibly he just has resting asshole face.

[cherrypj]

It was Alex and Mookie who tried to blackmail Yau. They were talking, then thought they saw Stacy and Cassandra overhearing them, so they ran to intercept Yau alone. He just basically said, "Do what you gotta do."

Plus Mookie is the one who made fun of Yau during the fire throwing challenge.

I get Hera's point about Edgardo. Maybe!

Edited April 17, 2016 by cherrypj

[phlebas]

I suspect Yau-Man didn't want the truck bad enough to deal with the tax bill involved with having it.  I'd bet Dreamz didn't keep it once he found out what he had to pay for it.

[LadyChatts]

I didn't think Dreamz reigning on his deal was that horrible, either.  A crappy thing to do, but Yau took the gamble.  It's like giving someone your II and expecting them to give it back, or to use it to save you when you are the one targeted.  You take a chance.  Dreamz had no shot in hell at winning regardless, but at least he made it seem like he was trying by not giving Yau his immunity.  I feel like, if Dreamz had done that to someone like Mookie or Rocky, people wouldn't have cared that much.  Since it was Yau, Dreamz became the devil.  

 

I re-watched Fiji recently, and while not a great season, I don't think it was as bad as I remembered.  Of course, comparing it to some recent duds like WA and our current season makes it seem better in comparison.  I will always wonder how the season would have turned out had that girl not dropped out right before filming, and they were able to do the whole tribes-divided-by-race gimmick again.  The haves/have nots was a terrible twist and I'm glad it has never returned.  

Edited April 21, 2016 by LadyChatts

[Potanical Pardon]

This season seemed boring at first and then the back half was like YES! YES! YES! And then came the end. WOW. What an utter piece of shit. That just made Puck and Omarosa look like saints. I had plenty of people in this season already to hate, especially Alex and the rest of the Four Horseshits.

One thing that confused me: Everyone's beef with Boo. Maybe the instances all happened when I was looking away doing something else. I didn't notice him talking so much to annoy anyone. I barely saw him talk at all! I never got why anyone was threatened by him being a powerful player or even being abrasive/bossy/scheming. Dude seemed like a totally chill and calm guy. The worst thing I could see was maybe his side-looks of judgment which is nothing. I don't understand why people really thought that they couldn't trust him. Of all the contestants in this season, and he and Stacy were the concerns? Really? People tried turning Cassandra. I'd say everyone had a convo with her at some point to switch alliances. Why did she, Michelle, Stacy, pretty much 2/3 of the cast seem like good ideas to try and swing over Boo? 

I was really surprised at Boo's Christian-speak in the Jury finally speaks part. Came out of nowhere. I agreed with him totally and the passion behind it except for the Jesus angle. Where the hell did that come from? Haha. Okay, I guess.

[NutMeg]

I liked Boo too - and I used to think that HE was to one that Yau Man should have made the truck deal with. But of course that would have been for naught if Earl and Cassandra  wanted to keep Dreamz along as their goat. 

Unpopular opinion, but I also liked Stacy. And yes, in retrospect, Yau Man would have done well keeping her and Boo around as his (and only his) allies instead of relying on Earl who had another agenda that didn't include Yau Man.

Maybe that's why I was not crazy about Yau Man as a returnee (he had that one chance to win, but he messed it up and almost pulled a Ian, and I don't think he'll ever get back that surprised/impressed/respectful feel he generated in his first game).

[Michel]

On ‎10‎/‎23‎/‎2016 at 0:03 PM, NutMeg said:

Unpopular opinion, but I also liked Stacy.

I also liked Stacy (though I didn't till after the merge) and will forever thank her for the best blindside of the season.  The Syndicate (Earl, Cassandra, Yau-Man, Boo, and Stacy) were all deciding whom to vote out between Alex and Mookie, not knowing for sure who had the hidden Immunity Idol.  But then, of all people, Stacy has the idea to go with the third, safe option by targeting Edgardo!  What resulted was one of the best Tribal Councils ever, and it was her idea!

[simplyme]

I liked Stacy, too. I could never figure out why everyone hated her. I mean, everyone. The answer to the castaway poll question of "What Survivor would you never take home to meet your family?" was Stacy. Everyone but Stacy got it right. Did she wander the island kicking endangered species or something? What? I seriously had no idea what the problem was from what we were shown.

[fishcakes]

Stacy was really tight with Lisi, who was a garbage fire with a mouth. There was also the scene with the coffee reward where Dreamz and Cassandra didn't know how to work the French press and ended up drinking cups of coffee full of grounds while Stacy and Lisi were laughing at them and rhapsodizing over their own coffee. When Alex said, "why don't you just show them how to use it?" Stacy sneered and said something like, "I don't have to show them anything." When Alex -- he of the "my question is SHUT UP" FTC -- gives a TH saying how nasty Stacy and Lisi are, then you know they're nasty. Once Lisi was gone, Stacy did become nicer, and she was the architect of the great, great Edgardo blindside, but she was nicer because she was on the bottom of the alliance and she knew it. She was awful when she was on top and only become civil when she was afraid of being voted out, so I don't blame the others for not liking or trusting her.

[simplyme]

Thanks for that, @fishcakes. I remember hating Lisi, but strangely have no memory of hating Stacy. I wonder if I was so thrilled by the Edgardo blindside that my mind decided to do a little revision on my memories?

[enlightenedbum]

The Michelle vote is such bullshit, still.  Even more so because Probst allowed Alex to broadcast his strategy when they were not supposed to be allowed to strategize.  Stupid Probst.

Stacy was very arrogant and a total asshole to the minority when she was in the majority.  As is true of many people in this show's history she does badly when given power over other people.

[tchaikca]

Just finished rewarding this one...I liked it a lot more than I remembered. I came out with nicer feelings towards Edgardo (and until the final TC...Alex). Still hated Mookie, and Rocky and Lisi were just as awful as I remembered. Still didn't like the "have/have not " twist, loved Yau all over again. I wonder wy Michelle has never been brought back.....she got screwed.   I had not remembered that there was as much "idol" stuff going on this far back...it seems hilarious to have Probat explain the rules for using it in such detail at every tribal. 

The rewatch has moved this one up in my personal ranks.

[enlightenedbum]

It's the biggest pre/post merge split in the show's history.  Well, maybe One World because Kim is so much more appealing as a dominant force than Colton.

[simplyme]

11 hours ago, tchaikca said:

Just finished rewarding this one...I liked it a lot more than I remembered. I came out with nicer feelings towards Edgardo (and until the final TC...Alex). Still hated Mookie, and Rocky and Lisi were just as awful as I remembered. Still didn't like the "have/have not " twist, loved Yau all over again. I wonder wy Michelle has never been brought back.....she got screwed.   I had not remembered that there was as much "idol" stuff going on this far back...it seems hilarious to have Probat explain the rules for using it in such detail at every tribal. 

The rewatch has moved this one up in my personal ranks.

I recently rewatched Fiji and this us very close to what I thought. Jeeeeeezus. I'd forgotten exactly how annoying Lisi and Rocky were. Alex was a snake, but it took a long time to show. Edgardo... I ended up kind of liking. He didn't really do anything that offensive except end up in an alliance with jerks, and he was both better at reading people and staying under the radar than Alex was. He just happened to be the one to go first.

That said, there weren't a lot of people I actually liked this season either. Michelle, Yau Man, and Earl, I guess. Some I was neutral on. Had Cassandra played a strategy other than "I was everyone's supporter and comforter" during TC and actually owned her game, I would have liked her, but I ended up disappointed. Dre was just painful to watch a lot of the time. Mookie had possibilities but failed me epically. And Boo was mystifying. Sometimes he seemed sharp. Sometimes he was dumber than a box of rocks. 

[SVNBob]

I haven't watched this season in a while, but I kinda want to now.  Mainly for the meke challenge.

Because that was a unique challenge in Survivor history.  A dance-off, based in the local culture.  And while there was always the possibility of ugly Americanism happening, it didn't seem to.

The biggest problem is that Dre's team mismanaged the whole thing.  Then again, (I think) they had Lisi, Alex, and Mookie on that side at the time, so it was kind of unavoidable that they'd blow it.  But wasn't Dre a cheerleading coach?  He should have been the team captain and lead performer on that challenge.  I distinctly remember his seemingly effortless backflip at the end of their performance.  But it was out of place, since at that point the 5 of them were in a V-shape, and he was the center of one of the sides.  If he'd been the point of the V, it would have been a great capper to their performance.  Or if the person in the same place on the other side of the V could also have flipped, that would have better.  But since it was just him, and he was where he was, it was just...off.

[Daisy]

I think Fiji gets crapped on a lot (rightly), for that stupid Rich vs. Poor set up. Who the hell at SurvivorCamp thought this would be a good idea. I mean technically we  had this already all the way back in Australia. Kucha was living high off the hog, (and always winning) and Ogakor was literally starving. And then they merged and they all were starving. So why did they think that having a Luxury camp for one tribe was going to result in anything but a possible Ulonging? (hence why they had the tribe swap - poor Earl. he got nothing LOL). 

I always enjoyed this season because I did like Earl and he (and Yul) sometimes softened my stance on the UGH recruited. because I think it showed that you need to get the right people regardless of recruited vs. casted because they cast some duds (obviously) and recruited back to back winners and people who really had a thumb on the pulse of the game. 

AND. The blindside. Always the blind side. my favourite part of the entire season summed up there. (oh and Lisi's faceplant close behind). 

The car thing . Being an adult now - I don't blame Dre for choosing the car, and Yau Man had to have known that would have been a massive possibility for that to happen. I think what ultimately hurt him - was all the flipping back and forth and his sweet (yet big) mouth shooting the games of Mookie, Alex and Ed. (that and 4 + the Syndicate was never gonna work). 

[Nalan]

16 hours ago, Daisy said:

(hence why they had the tribe swap - poor Earl. he got nothing LOL).

Earl got the luxuries when the swap happened and he ended up on nuMoto, as did Michelle and Yau-Man.  And since they'd already been on Moto before, Boo, Cassandra, and Stacy got the luxuries, too.  It's Mookie who got nothing, as it was all gone when the merge happened.

Edited June 5, 2017 by Nalan

[Daisy]

20 hours ago, Nalan said:

Earl got the luxuries when the swap happened and he ended up on nuMoto, as did Michelle and Yau-Man.  And since they'd already been on Moto before, Boo, Cassandra, and Stacy got the luxuries, too.  It's Mookie who got nothing, as it was all gone when the merge happened.

clearly summer has attacked my brain. 
Thanks. :) Poor Mookie. lol he got nothing. 

[Lamb18]

I'm watching this season and I like it fine so far. The Have/Have Not situation wasn't as bad as I thought it was going to be. Funny how they were bummed at the merge to back to Motu and there was nothing. I like Earl pretty well and Yau Man. He really rocked some of those challenges, like the arrow/blow pipe and sword immunity challenge. Lisi was a pain and definitely Rocky. I'm surprised they kept him around as long as they did - I would have gotten him out as soon as I could. Regarding the tribe swap and merge, I don't think Rocky got anything either, ever.

[KimberStormer]

Just started this for the first time, two episodes in.  I feel like Spoiled Survivor is such a different thing than Unspoiled Survivor, and I think Spoiled is probably better, yet I will always avoid the spoilers, for some reason...

The thing about the Haves/Have Nots thing is that it's so completely unjustified and unexplained -- it's almost like Probst is pretending it's not a thing?  Whereas of course if it was the current era, it would be "As a Have Not, the sunset was beautiful last night" in every confessional and all tribal council long Jeff would be like "WHAT DOES THIS MEAN TO YOU, AS A HAVE NOT?"  Is it better that there's literally no explanation and it's just "you suckers get shit on for no reason -- we don't even give you fire-in-the-form-of-flint for losing like every other tribe ever"?  It would be infuriating as a player, but it's much less annoying as a watcher...  It's also weird that Jeff mentioned the person who quit in his intro spiel but then never again, and never told the players.

Both votes have been pretty ridiculous so far, but I guess the first couple of boots usually are.  Because I'm spoiled, I'm seeing the edit as also outrageously unbalanced -- Earl is getting a ton of time, as is Dreamz.  Anyway, I'm enjoying it so far.  These old seasons might be all I have left, since I don't know if I can take All Twist All The Time Survivor anymore.

[SVNBob]

1 hour ago, KimberStormer said:

The thing about the Haves/Have Nots thing is that it's so completely unjustified and unexplained -- it's almost like Probst is pretending it's not a thing?

Because it likely wasn't supposed to be a thing at all.  At least, that's the speculation. 

If you take a closer look at this cast, you'll see they're not just one of the more racially diverse casts, but when you add in the missing person (a white woman) they're exactly as diverse as Cook Islands (only gender flipped).  The theory is that this season was originally going to be "Race War 2.0", but they dropped that concept as soon as they realized they were going to have to start with 19 people.  And the Have vs Have Not concept was the best alternate idea they could come up with at such short notice.

1 hour ago, KimberStormer said:

It's also weird that Jeff mentioned the person who quit in his intro spiel but then never again, and never told the players.

Well, we the audience needed to know why they were starting with an odd number of contestants.  But after the game got under way, that was no longer a factor.  All it meant was one less vote out to deal with.

As for the players, they would have kind of known.  She was around until just before starting, so they all would have seen her, seen her panic attacks (which was the reason she got DQ'd), seen the medics examining her, and then not seen her anymore.  So they would have had a clue as to what was going on.  Or they were brought up to speed totally off-camera.

[KimberStormer]

Just reached the Liliana vote.  Wondering how Dreamz knew to vote for her and why he didn't tell Cassandra.  And good god is it telling that those two are the ones who aren't included in the alliance (even Liliana thought she was...) 

There's a lot about this season where being spoiled is actually making things more confusing.  I have read so much Dreamz hate and so far I am totally befuddled as to why, to the point that I'm wondering if I imagined it.  He seems like the sweetest kid ever, just sort of naive.  Similarly, Papa Smurf's quit/evac was one of the least notable and dramatized I can remember...so why did I know that name?  I thought he'd be around for long enough to be a character of some kind, but not really.

Another baffling thing is all the Yau Man hype.  I suppose there's plenty of season left for him to show up as a character, but so far mostly I am just amazed he managed to avoid the usual "vote out the old" Survivor mentality.  He hasn't done much except open a box and some coconuts so far.  I always thought he was the one who started the fire with his glasses, but no!  It was Michelle!  Who is as adorable as her reputation suggested, so at least that part I get.

I know Cassandra makes it to the end so I was hoping she'd pull something out in order to not be the vote this time but it's Survivor, and I am used to disappointment.  Of course she did nothing and her surviving was pure chance based on I guess Lisi and Stacy thinking Liliana was too flirty, or whatever.  I feel like the number of people who were on the chopping block but didn't get chopped due to their own efforts is amazingly small -- maybe that's why we like successful idol plays (I would have loved it if Sylvia had busted it out last episode): it might be literally the least interesting way to save yourself, but at least it's fucking doing something.

Edited July 25, 2019 by KimberStormer

[KimberStormer]

Anthony is now gone, and there is a tribe made up entirely of bro-dudes (and Lisi, starting next ep.)  Self-selected tribes are always crazy, but it's amazing they let this all-male tribe exist.  Though they didn't have much choice; as one of these sexist morons pointed out, everyone voted out so far has been a woman.  I don't like to say "wow we've come so far" in the dozen years since this season but I do sort of think that even the dumbest meatheads would know not to say the kind of shit these guys were saying this episode on national TV?

Earl revelling in his power is interesting, I feel like that sort of talk generally gets you hated (or is prelude to getting voted out) yet Earl is beloved.  I am generally happier when the game is the game and not entirely challenge-based so I was happy to see Earl and Boo both thinking and talking game, even if they didn't go to tribal.

Still feel like Dreamz is one of the most loveable Survivors I can remember.  What did people think of Anthony when the season was on TV?  I feel like he would be a star in this era -- being treated the way he was by Rocky would be enough to make everyone like him, and he's got a lot of nerdy charm.  But I'd never heard of him before.  I do think he might have come up with some game-related arguments to save himself, "something something you'll need my vote later something" instead of "Rocky is annoying/emotional", but on the other hand, this is pretty old-school Survivor and people mostly just didn't think that way at all, so maybe it wouldn't have gotten him anywhere.

[fishcakes]

7 hours ago, KimberStormer said:

Still feel like Dreamz is one of the most loveable Survivors I can remember.  What did people think of Anthony when the season was on TV?  I feel like he would be a star in this era -- being treated the way he was by Rocky would be enough to make everyone like him, and he's got a lot of nerdy charm.

It's been ages, but I seem to remember that the audience reaction (or at least the TWoP reaction) to Anthony was positive and that the overwhelmingly negative reaction to Rocky was because of the way he treated Anthony. I mean, no one was nice to Anthony, but they mostly just excluded him. Rocky was actively shitty to him.

As for Dreamz, I don't think he became unpopular until later in the season. I don't know how spoiled you are, so I won't talk about it specifically, but there was something that happened between him and another player that really soured the audience on him. Personally I always liked Dreamz, even given everything that happened.

[KimberStormer]

I'm about to start and the previously on reminded me of what a piece of work Jeff was in that last episode.  He was overboard pissed with Lisi, it seemed to me, when she was talking about how she thought she was out of the game for a minute.  Although she gave as good as she got, I suppose, it was a weird amount of angry from Jeff.  (btw Lisi is terrible but actually extremely pretty?  The island glow is really working out for her.)  And then, worse, Jeff was on Rocky's side!  He was like "GEE ANTHONY, IF ONLY YOU'D TAKE THIS AWESOME ADVICE AND MAN UP, TOO BAD YOU'RE A LOSER NERD."  Couldn't believe my ears.

[BK1978]

22 hours ago, KimberStormer said:

Still feel like Dreamz is one of the most loveable Survivors I can remember.  What did people think of Anthony when the season was on TV?  I feel like he would be a star in this era -- being treated the way he was by Rocky would be enough to make everyone like him, and he's got a lot of nerdy charm.  But I'd never heard of him before.  I do think he might have come up with some game-related arguments to save himself, "something something you'll need my vote later something" instead of "Rocky is annoying/emotional", but on the other hand, this is pretty old-school Survivor and people mostly just didn't think that way at all, so maybe it wouldn't have gotten him anywhere.

For me I was a huge Anthony fan because it was like seeing myself on television (well I am not black, but yeah personality wise we are very similar) and having been bullied in the past I kind of felt what he was going through.  I hated Rocky and Lisi with a passion that season.

[KimberStormer]

Lisi just joined Rocky on the jury...these pre-merge juries are dumb.  She's never really met Earl, Yau-Man, or Michelle, so how can she fairly vote?  I find her strangely telegenic, from her very blue eyes to her weird laugh, and I will sort of miss her I guess.  Absolutely bizarre decision by Alex and Edgardo to vote her out instead of Dreamz, but this is, as I say, relatively old school Survivor and these people are morons.

Yau-Man has finally started to come into his own the past couple episodes, his personality has had time to shine.  Of course it is satisfying watching him dominate the challenge while the meatheads laugh at him.  The most telling part is how they don't adopt his successful tactics -- have you ever seen a javelin thrower who didn't run up to throw?  But they don't want to, because he did it.  I also like Earl and Michelle's morning meeting; I know from reputation that some kind of horrible unfair twist is coming for her and it sucks because Earl/Yau-Man/Michelle would be an excellent trio, of Parv/Amanda/Cirie proportions, had she been not screwed over.

Liked the Meke challenge -- they should do more stuff like that.  That sort of reward is more rewarding, too, than generic ones.  But I guess that is for a past era when they moved around.

[kassandra8286]

On 7/31/2019 at 8:38 AM, fishcakes said:

As for Dreamz, I don't think he became unpopular until later in the season.

As I recall, many of the TWOP folks decided they didn't like Dreamz from day one due to his nickname and because they thought he was kind of dim. In particular they mocked him for something he said in the first episode about everyone being a winner. I'm also pretty sure Miss Alli took an instant dislike to him in her recaps which set the tone for her forum followers. Of course what happened later took it up to a whole new level of HAAATE.

On 7/31/2019 at 8:38 AM, fishcakes said:

Personally I always liked Dreamz, even given everything that happened.

I did too. I recently rewatched Fiji and I still liked him! lol

[KimberStormer]

7 minutes ago, kassandra8286 said:

I'm also pretty sure Miss Alli took an instant dislike to him in her recaps which set the tone for her forum followers.

Sounds just about right to me.  I always gotta laugh that she's all respected and big time these days.

[KimberStormer]

Poor Michelle!  What a weird and dumb idea, this random team immunity challenge thing.  Why not just keep them in separate tribes?  What were they hoping to accomplish here?  Was it because they realized the Have Not tribe will always lose everything?  It's so strange, and Michelle got left high and dry on a team with nobody she really knew.

Of course, in this post-Game Changers day and age, people would just get up and talk to each other, scandalizing the board.  I wonder what would happen then -- would Mookie have been able to convince Dreamz to vote with him, or not.  It seems like it would be in Dreamz' best interest, so probably.  Now personally, I think it would be more fair that way, but I wonder what people who hate the whispering think?  I did think Dreamz gave the perfect answer to Jeff's question (and Jeff asking each person why to vote off each other person is sort of obnoxious, no? sort of making them play out loud, in a sense?) from a jury management perspective: the old Sandra-style "it ain't me".  Hard for Michelle to hold that against Dreamz, whom she's never really met.

If I were in Earl or Yau-Man's shoes I think I would have thrown the challenge to protect Michelle.  Though I suppose that's a lot of thinking for such a short time, they knew everyone wanted to vote out Boo, so it would have contained the damage of this bullshit producer move. 

[Hera]

What I remember is how deeply unfair the whole thing felt. They had been merged, only to be split immediately into "teams" who compete against each other, with the losing one having to go to tribal council and vote one of its members out. That's a one-shot tribal swap, not a merge. And they also had to go straight to Tribal Council—there was no chance to talk things over at camp first.

[KimberStormer]

Finally saw the famous blindside.  (I've been super busy.)  I can only imagine how satisfying it was in the original broadcast.  I liked it as an episode because it was all game all the time.  Alot of people thinking and trying to play.

The legend of it doesn't really match the reality, it seems to me?  It was not Earl and Yau-Man coming up with the Edgardo Move, but (the much-maligned in the chop challenge) Stacy; and furthermore Alex & company came up with exactly the same move, targeting Cassandra instead of Earl or Yau-Man.  And all this with the very first-ever use of the now-canonical form of HII!  It's also interesting we know exactly what is going to happen -- I feel like there is always more baloney misdirection now, so we will have "suspense".  Interesting too to see that Mookie couldn't just use the idol on Alex, or hand it to him at tribal, but had to do some kind of elaborate passing thing right in the middle of camp for some reason?  I suppose it is something grizzled Survivor fan vets might grumble about, that now they have it so easy, but I do think it's more fun now, when idols played are often as much a blindside to the recipient (Jerri and Sandra, Stephen Fishbach, etc) as to those voting against them.

I like seeing so many people thinking so well.  Stacy, obvs, with the Edgardo Move.  Cassandra having the pulse of the tribe and making smart picks for the reward.  Boo taking advantage of last week's nonsense to present himself as a replacement Michelle, well done.  And I think Earl was right on the money diagnosing the problem Dreamz is having: trying to play all by himself.  You need to think of yourself, but his trying to play both sides is a very difficult tightrope to walk.  It's an interesting group of players!

[SVNBob]

4 hours ago, KimberStormer said:

And all this with the very first-ever use of the now-canonical form of HII!  [snip] Interesting too to see that Mookie couldn't just use the idol on Alex, or hand it to him at tribal, but had to do some kind of elaborate passing thing right in the middle of camp for some reason?

As you noted, it was the first outing for this iteration of the HII.  Any thoughts and rules about how to use it were still rooted in the previous version, but now with the added change of having to play it before the votes instead of after.  So most people would still be thinking of needing to play it for themselves, instead of any kind of third-party play.

As for the elaborate song-and-dance hand-off Alex and Mookie did...that was all on that brain trust.  There wasn't any real need to do that.  Mookie simply could have just handed his HII to Alex at any point before TC (Because I think the rules stated at the time that you needed to have physical possession of the HII in order to use it.  That's seemingly an artifact of the previous idol, as Yul tried to get Becky to take his idol before that last TC.) like giving him any other item.  But because they were being "smart" and "sneaky", they did...that.

[KimberStormer]

Had to sort of laugh when Earl is sure they don't need to split the vote because there's no way Alex and Mookie could find an idol without clues.  Oh Earl, you might have been right back then; but Alex is clearly (if inexplicably) a Probst favorite, and idols would be absolutely raining from the sky on those two meatheads in this day and age.  (Again though I am amazed at the sophistication of people playing the first season with the canonical idol, and only one season after Cao Boi invented Plan Voodoo...splitting the vote here is absolutely what would happen in a current season.) 

What baffles me here is Stacy; Yau-Man mentioned his fear that Alex and Mookie might peel off Dreamz and Boo, why on earth is Stacy somehow so tight with Earl and Yau-Man and Cassandra?  Just two episodes ago Alex saved her bacon, then the next episode she's like "I'm tired" when he tries to get her on board with his alliance, yet Yau-Man is telling her "just don't vote for Earl" (obviously not trusting her with the plan) and she's like totally on their side, to the point where I guess she was a total lock by this time.  If I were in Alex and Mookie's shoes, I would be working hard on Stacy, I feel like.  More important than blowing up Yau-Man's idol and inciting the same kind of feelings among the players as people get on this board when peolpe go through others' bags.

Dreamz, saying "sure we're a tight six now, but we're going to have to split up after these two go", he's always thinking of the individual game, a bit too overtly.  And trying hamhandedly to get Alex and Mookie's jury votes -- he really has a good head for the game, it's just the execution is off.

[SVNBob]

23 minutes ago, KimberStormer said:

If I were in Alex and Mookie's shoes, I would be working hard on Stacy, I feel like.  More important than blowing up Yau-Man's idol and inciting the same kind of feelings among the players as people get on this board when peolpe go through others' bags.

Again, remember what kind of intellects we're dealing with here.  Two people that think they're smarter than they are, and in Alex's case, smarter than the rest of the cast.  Even after they just got outmaneuvered.

Blowing up Yau-man's idol isn't the worst idea, but their plans on how to do it are.  Their first plan of just blurting it out at the next TC was either not going to get Yau any votes, or just get him to play the idol.  In either case, one of them is still going to get voted out.

But their second plan, when they think their first plan is ruined (which it was, but not the way they thought) of going to Yau-man to warn him they're going to tell the others about the idol before they actually do so, not demanding anything for their silence, then giving him enough time to get ahead of the narrative and present his own spin of how the two "bullies" were trying to "blackmail" him (which: truth, just not as bad as he presents it), is guaranteed to blow up in their own faces.

Geniuses: Yau-man is, and Alex and Mookie are not.

(Relatedly, I've come to terms with people searching others' bags.  I may not like it, but I accept it's going to keep happening.)

As for flipping Stacey back, that wasn't likely.  She was a Mean Girl throughout the season, lording power/knowledge over others while she was on Have tribe and in the majority alliance with Alex and Mookie.  She lost said power at the merge, until she joined up with the alliance and cut the Gordian knot with the Edgardo boot solution to the Three Horsemen problem.  Them going with her plan solidified her place within the alliance, and she felt the power return.  She wouldn't do anything to risk that again.

[KimberStormer]

OK, I have only the finale left to watch.  I am totally baffled why anyone blames anyone but Yau-Man for the truck situation.  It was a stupid-ass move.  Can't blame Dreamz for taking the deal in the heat of the moment (as Yau-Man was counting on) but also can't fault his 100% accurate reading of what it meant: that he would go out like Ice Cream Erik in Micronesia.  And he goes on to do exactly the right thing: try to blindside Yau-Man before it can become an issue of "reneging".  And on that subject, am I insane or is reneging on deals the entire game of Survivor?  You tell people you're going to take them to the end, then you vote them out.  That's the game, the whole game.  If it's OK to do that with the million dollars, why isn't it not OK with a truck worth a fraction of that?  Of course it's OK.  It is always OK to do that on Survivor.  How could it be otherwise?  Yau-Man basically said to his ally, "Hey I'm not really your ally and I'm going to vote you out" and Dreamz is the one who's terrible?  Because he was smart enough to see that?  He and Cassandra made a great move here -- they would run the game from here on out; and if the editing is to be believed (dubious, but anyway) it was Stacy who ruined the blindside and spooked Yau-Man into using the HII.

Good thing I wasn't on the boards at the time, I would have been modded for sure.  I'm feeling a deep sense of a historical injustice right now.  Luckily, reading above, it seems that people here mostly think it wasn't a big deal, and that makes me feel better.

In other news, it's strange how nobody ever thinks of voting out Earl.  Alex was in a pretty impossible spot but still what kind of dim bulb tries to convince the leader to vote out his closest ally, instead of trying to get the Boos and Stacys of the world to vote out the power players?  He never even suggested voting out Earl.  Bananas.

[fishcakes]

8 hours ago, KimberStormer said:

OK, I have only the finale left to watch.  I am totally baffled why anyone blames anyone but Yau-Man for the truck situation. 

Even Yau Man says it was his error. He talks about it during the reunion and had no ill feelings toward Dreamz at all. Really, though, it wasn't even a mistake, just a bet that didn't pay off. I agree with the posters who think Yau didn't really want or need the truck and took the chance that giving it to Dreamz might pay off later in the game. I think the animosity toward Dreamz from the audience comes from the fact that it wasn't strictly a game move; there was also an altruistic factor in that Yau chose Dreamz, who had had so little in life, and not Earl or Cassandra (although ... Cassandra wasn't likely to win immunity so let's just say Earl). I think viewers focused too much on the generous part of what Yau did, and also I think they don't give him enough credit for knowing it was a gamble. Yau's not an idiot; he knew it might not pay off and when it didn't, he didn't get all HOW DARE YOU about it. He was disappointed to be voted out, but then he shrugged it off. I think they both played that whole situation quite well; it just happened to work out better for Dreamz.

Semi-related: If I ever play The Price is Right, get to the showcase round, and have the chance to win any kind of boat, I will bid a million dollars just to insure that I'll lose. WTF would I do with a boat.

[Nashville]

29 minutes ago, fishcakes said:

Semi-related: If I ever play The Price is Right, get to the showcase round, and have the chance to win any kind of boat, I will bid a million dollars just to insure that I'll lose. WTF would I do with a boat.

Sell it, maybe? 😉 

Or get the cash equivalent?

[KimberStormer]

Finished!  What a terrible jury!  The only people who came out fine were Edgardo and Stacy; Michelle and Yau-Man were only average obnoxious but Survivor juries have gotten much less annoying in recent times (maybe the only improvement the Superfan Era has brought us) and average is still pretty obnoxious.  It's hard to choose for worst between Lisi and Alex, although the fact that Alex was not only an asshole but completely and utterly wrong is pretty amazing, in a "you should literally be too embarassed to leave your house" kind of way.  Cassandra and Dreamz held up pretty well considering.  Of course if I were there as a little KimberStormer angel on their shoulder I would have advised some different answers (e.g. Dreamz could have told Mookie he flipped on purpose because them not telling him about the idol in the first place clearly showed he was on the bottom of the 4) but none of it would have mattered.  They did the best they could have done by trying to blindside Yau-Man at 6.

Somewhat harder to blame the fanbase for their blaming Dreamz when the editors clearly felt they had nothing to work with but the Yau-Man/Dreamz deal and swung for the fences with it.  I just felt bad for Dreamz.

Old-school is a breath of fresh air in some ways (only two people voted out in the finale! my beloved Fallen Comrades montage!) but in the end I did not come away thinking this was much better than its reputation.  I just could not connect with anyone but Dreamz in the cast, and it's not like there was any gameplay going on to think hard upon.  Oh well.