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Lost Without Their Blogger: Sherlock in the Media

David T. Cole

By David T. Cole
in Sherlock [V]

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dusang

dusang

I get a little weary, though, at the disingenuousness of Moffat's "amazement"; as if people are making it up out of whole cloth.  "He's been saying [sherlock isn't interested in sex] over 100 years!"  Well, in the world that Moffat and Gatiss created and control we are shown multiple characters who think Sherlock and John are a romantic couple, or could be.  Is it really so crazy if [some of the] audience follows suit?  Honestly, by now it's like a five-year gay joke.  And that's just based on actual dialogue, not even getting into innuendo or subtext.

 

Except that in the very first episode Sherlock tells John that he (Sherlock) is not gay.

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Anothermi
Anothermi

I may be a minority here, but I was hooked from the 1st episode.  I'm not much for picking something apart but if I leave an episode with being intrigued about something? - I stay engaged. That doesn'

Winter Rose
Winter Rose

I think it's going underappreciated simply because it's in S4 but I really do think The Lying Detective was a highlight, and the best post-TRF episode. Meanwhile the premieres and finales of S1 and S2

Winter Rose
Winter Rose

It was an interesting listen. I don't think there's anything wrong with shipping in itself and I do believe that once an author releases their story to the public, they no longer control how it's rece

rereader2

rereader2

Watching the episodes themselves (as opposed to reading people talking about episodes, or reading fan fiction), I've never seen Sherlock portrayed as anything other than not being interested in sex at all for whatever reason, unless you count him faking a romantic interest in Janine. Even with Irene, the closest he got was deducing faster (which he clearly got a kick out of--but that's not sexual)--and calmly taking her pulse (which argues against any actual arousal).

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K2DangerGirl

K2DangerGirl

 

Except that in the very first episode Sherlock tells John that he (Sherlock) is not gay.

At Angelo's?  Sherlock says girlfriends aren't his area, he doesn't have a boyfriend, and he considers himself married to his work.  None of which says anything about his orientation.

 

My point is not that I think they are showing Sherlock as anything other than uninterested in sex. Not with Irene, not with John. I'm not trying to contradict what Moffat and Gatiss have said about the show they are making.  It's about the process, and how they tend to talk to the media about fans' interpretations that are different.

 

Moffat and Gatiss write most of the scripts. And if they don't write them, they tacitly approve them when they film, edit and produce the show. If they don't want viewers to think Sherlock and John are a couple, maybe don't have the innkeepers in THoB assume Sherlock and John are a couple. Maybe don't have Mrs. Hudson act so surprised that John is marrying a woman, moving on "so soon after Sherlock". And definitely don't turn around after that and act like they have no idea where viewers come up with these crazy ideas.  (Yes, I know that especially in this most recent interview Moffat has learned to talk about this without sounding condescending and dismissive.)

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dusang

dusang

At Angelo's?  Sherlock says girlfriends aren't his area, he doesn't have a boyfriend, and he considers himself married to his work.  None of which says anything about his orientation.

 

Really?  I took that as him explicitly saying his orientation was asexual.

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rereader2

rereader2

From RadioTimes: 

 

 

 

"Honestly, it's a considerable inconvenience," joked Sherlock co-creator Steven Moffat at last night's Bafta Television Awards nominees party. "I expect people to stay at home until I'm ready to employ them again.

"I don't really like this adultery they all go and get involved in. No one works to my schedule, do they? It's all about their schedule."

 

It's a good thing for us that everyone involved in Sherlock WANTS to keep doing it.

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goodbyeglittergirl

goodbyeglittergirl

OK folks - here is my post-Sherlocked commentary! I apologize in advance for the length...

 

First things first: will there be a US convention? The organizers say that it's still the plan to have a US convention, but that it may be pushed to 2016. Y'all - if there's a US convention and you decide to go, PLEASE buy a package deal. (Assuming it's organized similarly to the UK convention.) People who just attended on weekend passes were really unable to do anything - everything was an upcharge, from talks on the mains stage to autographs to photos, etc. I bought a Platinum package, but when I added up the individual cost of everything I did during the convention, I definitely got my money's worth. I had a GREAT time. But there were many, many people there who were extremely disappointed.

 

I met everyone who attended. Standouts were Louise Brealey (Molly), Una Stubbs (Mrs. Hudson), and MOST importantly, Andrew Scott (Moriarty.)  

 

Louise Brealey is really bright and a strong feminist. She talked a lot about roles for women and women in production, etc., encouraging young women in the audience to consider that type of career. She was really chatty and wanted to have a good few minutes with each person getting an autograph. At one point she broke down in tears because the convention organizers were prompting her to hurry up and she felt like she was not spending enough time with people. She seems like a really kind and intelligent human being. She didn't want to talk very much about her acting but did say that her initial approach to Molly was just to play her as very sweet but a bit clueless, and she has evolved her approach as the character has evolved. She was just supposed to be a small part for a couple of episodes, so she's quite thrilled that she's developed into a nice little character on her own.

 

Una Stubbs is a delight. Charming and sweet. She said her approach to her Mrs. Hudson role is just to treat Sherlock and Watson like she treats her own sons. 

 

Andrew Scott was just phenomenal. Full of positive energy, seeming genuinely interested in meeting and seeing everyone. His main stage talks were a delight, and he talked about how he doesn't speculate about Moriarty's sexuality because it would be reductive. His favorite day of Sherlock shooting was the scene inside the jewel case. He also talked about how he likes to give different reads on every take, and that that means making a lot of mistakes and making a fool of yourself a LOT. I am an old school convention goer, having attended Star Trek type of conventions since the age of 12, and Andrew Scott is my favorite actor that I have ever met. I will consider attending the US convention if he is going to be a guest there, just because I'd love to see him again. I cannot say enough good things about Andrew Scott, based on my experience with him and watching how he interacted with fans. What a gem. 

 

Mark Gatiss is so quick witted. He was engaging but reserved - very cheeky and full of secrets, though. His best moments came during a dual main stage talk with Andrew Scott in which the two of them sort of egged each other on the whole time. It was a riot.

 

Steven Moffat was actually really lovely in person. And I say that as someone who has given Moffat down the road quite a few times b/c of his handling of some things with Doctor Who. I was expected to not care for him very much, but in person he was very focused and very kind. I happened to do his autograph the first day, and there weren't many people around, so he chatted with me for about 8 minutes - which in convention time is like forever. He asked me a bunch of questions and we talked about the possibility of The Doctor being a woman, how he writes for women, etc., and he was really fun to chat with. I am a huge Conan Doyle fan (as are he and Gatiss) and so we chatted about some of the smaller Holmes stories that would make great plotlines for Sherlock. He gave me a bunch of recommendations for things my kids might like to do next time I'm in London, and in fact had his own son, Louis, with him. Of everyone, Moffat was the person who least matched my expectations. His main stage talks were fun to attend but without a whole lot of substance b/c of course people asked loads of questions that he wasn't allowed to answer (about upcoming episodes, etc.) He sort of reminded me of my dad.

 

I did also meet and get a photo and autograph with Benedict Cumberbatch. He had a head cold and seemed a bit out of sorts, to be honest. Everything to do with Ben was VERY rushed, b/c they were trying to sweep people through as quickly as possible. He said several times to people as we were meeting him "I wish we could spend more time together!" It sort of felt like you were on a conveyor belt, so not the best experience. However, his main stage talk was a delight and you could tell he felt much more like himself up there. He talked about auditioning for Sherlock and how much he loves working with Martin Freeman. I would not be surprised to NOT see Benedict at the US Sherlocked, or to see him with less availability for photo shoots, etc - just because he really seemed a little overwhelmed. He was very kind, though, without fail, and put his arm around each and every photoshoot person no matter how tired/ill/over it he might have been. 

 

Some of the unexpected fun of the convention included a booth and main stage talks by Danny Hargreaves and his team, who handle the real special effects on Sherlock and Doctor Who (though not the CGI effects.) They did demonstrations, which were totally cool, and included the contraption the built to get that slow backward fall Sherlock takes. In addition to their cool main stage presentations, they had a booth with lots of things to play with and Danny's team was made of some really sweet guys who were so excited to be showing off what they do. We played with sugar glass, rubbered glass, faux concrete bits, fake bombs, etc. So interesting!

 

There were other cast members there as well, and all were nice, honestly. No one seemed put upon to be there. Lara Pulver (Irene Adler) is so lovely in real life, and I went to see her in Gypsy earlier in the week - she has a beautiful voice! I did not know that! Lara was chosen by Benedict, who after one read-through with Lara (though she didn't know in advance he was going to be there) said - yes, that's our Irene!

 

They had 3 actual sets there - the 221B exterior door, the living room of Sherlock's flat, and Mycroft's office. It was interesting how sort of underwhelming they are in person - smaller than you imagine and John's chair from the living room - lordy, it's hard to sit in. You kind of sink! So weird to be sitting there in 221B!

 

i am hoping snippets of the main stage talks may make their way onto YouTube at some point. Taping the talks was not allowed but we all know how that goes. 

 

There was surprisingly little merchandise available. The BBC had a little shop set up, and other shops were selling LOADS of prints and pictures of the actors so people could get them autographed. I had planned in advance, though, and had a metal Baker Street street sign for all of them to sign - it turned out really well!

 

I hope this gives you a feel for the convention. If they do a US one it's totally worth going provided you can spring for one of the packages. I would not bother to go on just a pass - there was only maybe an hour's worth of stuff to do that was free, and the second stage (which was free to attend) was mostly fan blog people and fan podcast people - and I'm sure they were entertaining but it's not my kind of thing. 

 

The most irritating thing about the convention was a group of cosplayers called the Baker Street Babes, who had a booth set up and also did a couple of second stage talks. They were REALLY enamored with themselves and spent a lot of time waltzing into talks and autograph sessions, etc, like VIPs. Maybe they are big in the UK or something but honestly they acted like they themselves were uber famous and it gave me a chuckle because the actual actors were incredibly down to Earth while these BSB folks were really oddly snooty and pushy. That was weird. 

 

The most disappointing thing were the parties, which happened Friday and Saturday night and were only open to Gold, Platinum, and VIP attendees. They had themes - 2 party rooms a night with 2 themes (Irene's Boudoir, The Underground, Moriarty's Lair, and one other I can't remember b/c I didn't attend parties the second night!) We were expecting some VERY cool parties based on the build up we'd been given, but instead walked into conference rooms decorated with a few balloons and plastic tablecloths on the 3 or 4 tables. Nothing was free - it was a cash bar and even if you just wanted a soda, it was like 4 pounds. I hope they do away with the parties next time - I don't know a single person who had a good time there - most of us left after 20-30 minutes the first night and just went down to a pub instead. 

 

The rumor around the convention was that Martin Freeman (along with his partner, Amanda, who plays Mary) had not been asked to attend this convention - the speculation being that they figure Martin will attend the one they hope to do next year and will do so in lieu of Cumberbatch, which will still be a huge draw and will hopefully bring people in since they didn't get to see him this time. 

 

I hope that was worth reading! If you have specific questions please feel free to ask! 

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M. Darcy

M. Darcy

Mark G tweeted that we will get something else at 12:15 London time.   Fingers crossed its a trailer or a clip!

 

And, wow, BC looks very Jeremy Brettish in that picture.  Its stunning. 

 

Oh, and some not so good news.  Season 4 won't be until 2017 :-(

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Peace 47

Peace 47

(edited)

The special is called "The Abominable Bride" and is airing on New Year's Day in both the UK and U.S.

Other news is that it will also be in theaters worldwide that day, with special theater-only extras.

That's a big rollout.

ETA: Australian cinematic trailer with a new line of dialogue not in the other trailers.

ETA: And another trailer with a few more scenes than the very first trailer of a few weeks ago.

Edited by Peace 47
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rereader2

rereader2

The Abominable Bride picked up a cluster of Emmy nominations:

Outstanding Television Movie

Outstanding Lead Actor in a Limited Series or Movie (Benedict Cumberbatch)

Outstanding Cinematography for a Limited Series or Movie 

Outstanding Special Effects in a Supporting Role 

Outstanding Sound Editing for a Limited Series, Movie or Special

Outstanding Sound Mixing for a Limited Series or Movie 

(Source: PBS.org)

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rereader2

rereader2

From the website With An Accent:

SDCC 2016: Sherlock & A Case of Sexual Identity. In which Moffat, Gatiss, and Vertue VERY STRONGLY emphasize that their Sherlock will not--NEVER--end up with Watson (or anyone else) in a gay relationship, or to put it another way:

Quote

He explicitly says he is not interested. Doesn’t mean he couldn’t be. Doesn’t mean there’s anything wrong with it. I’m a gay man. This is not an issue. But we’ve explicitly said this is not going to happen – there is no game plan – no matter how much we lie about other things, that this show is going to culminate in Martin and Benedict going off into the sunset together. They are not going to do it.

(BUT, "if people want to write whatever they like and have a great time extrapolating that’s absolutely fine. But there is no hidden or exposed agenda.")

I found this article because Sue Vertue tweeted that it's legit.

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Peace 47

Peace 47

(edited)

Sigh.  Moffat and Gatiss's interview has stirred up quite a turbulent wake.  As the article notes, at SDCC 2016, many invested fans got very excited when Moffat spoke on a panel with Bryan Fuller and said some very thoughtful things about LGBT representation that very closely echoed theories on how John and Sherlock may get together.

As background, fans have not pulled their speculations about Sherlock being in love with John out of thin air, and many of those theories are based, in part, on past extra-textual statements by the creators (not just what is in the show).  Gatiss was quoted in a 2010 Guardian interview as saying that "The Private Life of Sherlock Holmes" informed a lot of what they were trying to do in Sherlock and mentioned that Sherlock "effectively falls in love" with Watson in that film (so it gave people ideas).  Gatiss also was quoted as saying in 2012:

"I think when the day comes that you have a big detective show where the first half hour was this man at work and he’s a maverick and all the usual things and then we went home and his boyfriend says, “Are you alright?” it was just a thing, then something would have genuinely changed."

(What gets left out of the quotes is that he goes on to say it can't be that way now because gayness is always an issue.)  And even Moffat, who show runs Doctor Who, has a lesbian married couple on that show as minor characters.  One-half of that couple is a Victorian consulting detective for Scotland Yard and is speculated in-universe to be the inspiration for Sherlock Holmes.  So again, it gave people ideas about what the producers were open to doing.

I pretty much take at face value their adamant denials because not only did Vertue confirm it, but Gatiss and the show's PR minder also took to Twitter to say how accurate that article was when so many other publications twist their words.  And a fan-run site that they favor with special things like set tours promoted it on their blog, out of all panels and interviews done at SDCC.  And in the coup de grace, someone tweeted Gatiss to challenge him about the media twisting his words when he said that Sherlock and John were in love in "The Private Life of Sherlock Holmes," and he actually said his words were twisted--he called it a "garbled mistranslation" (an article in The Guardian, no less).  They are clearly trying to send a message.  They say that while they lie about other things, they are not lying about this.  The problem is, that part 2 of the "offending" interview goes on to say how they lie to protect important plot points, and so many that I've seen on Tumblr have just decided that they are lying about this, as well (citing, for example, Moffat's strong insistence that TAB was a one-off Victorian fantasy not connect to the present story).

I don't think anyone reading this probably agrees with my prior read on the show, but I maintain that the show did play with subtext (which Gatiss now calls a joke that may have gone too far).  I might hope that some may agree that it's disheartening that while Gatiss essentially calls perceptions of Sherlock and John's status a "joke," he and Moffat also get angry about fans "trivializing" LGBT representation.  (Maybe then don't make a joke of it?)  It's disheartening that he calls fans (including many LGBT youth who have embraced this show fiercely--just check Tumblr) being nearly giddy at possibly seeing an iconic character being allowed to be brilliant and difficult and incidentally gay as "trivializing" the issue.  (Is it a little bit trivializing to have your villain get on his knees in your most recent episode and suggestively lick the phallic symbol of a gun?)  And it's disheartening that as they say on one day that it's so important for LGBT youth to see themselves portrayed onscreen, their answer the next day is "not for any leading character on my show, though."

I've suspected for awhile that Gatiss especially has some contempt for the most ardent Sherlock fans.  (See how ardent in-universe fans of the character of Sherlock are treated as obsessed with seeing Moriarty and Sherlock kiss in "The Empty Hearse.")  I think the contempt of both of them really comes through in that interview, and I am disappointed.

Edited by Peace 47
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Winter Rose

Winter Rose

I probably have no business weighing in on this, as I've only caught up with the show this year, but I can't imagine they would've confirmed an interview like this was true without expecting it to disappoint some people. That in no way justifies sending personal attacks to the writers but they probably expected a backlash and still thought it was something worth saying.

I actually thought they were as polite as possible in the interview, especially Mark saying "maybe we've done it too many times" like he's taking responsibility himself. Maybe they are frustrated if they feel like they have a whole show here and so much that's being asked is whether Sherlock and John will be a couple, but I think there is acknowledgement that fans didn't come to that conclusion out of nowhere. It seems to me like they're feeling the effects of what happens when they say they lie all the time and then find that when they actually are telling the truth, no one believes them. But that doesn't mean they're not still telling the truth.

They're also not saying people can't still ship Johnlock, if anything they're encouraging it, it's just that that's not what they're writing. I do think there's been a ton of subtext in this show, a lot of it for Johnlock but not all of it, but I never felt it was done with the promise that it would actually lead somewhere. I don't personally ship Johnlock but for what it's worth, I'm of the belief that romantic love isn't always the strongest kind so even if they never get together, it'll still be the most significant relationship Sherlock and John will have.

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SusanSunflower

SusanSunflower

(edited)

It's a tedious subject. Anyone who discovered Sherlock Holmes in elementary or middle school probably had to deal with insinuations from "knowing" classmates or older siblings, my memories of this go back to the very earliest 1960's.  These days, one faces the possible stigma of homophobia if you say "no, really, it's not in the books, particularly not in the Victorian Age  when there were many unmarried second sons (non-inheritors) and, like John, the ever present "walking wounded" ... they can be best of friends, they can even be "in love", i.e. infatuated, with each other as a each being the "person who knows me best and still likes me" without it being homoerotic. It's never clear if the "homoeroticism" some people see is actually there to be seen (which is why Gattis' opinions/thoughts are so important ) or if people are seeing what they want to see, or seeing what they "believe" the actors and/or Gattis wants them to see.

Getting metta with th question of whether Gattis is deliberately pulling that chain or if he could be pulling that chain subconsciously? or just teasing the audience. (I favor the latter) . The gay version has been done, as has the vaguely bi-curious version (iirc, in the school boy versions).  I always thought that Doyle has made it clear that Sherlock was an aesthete who lived in his head and eshewed any carnal inclinations or appetites, except the cocaine, and the violin.  But that was likely based mostly on reading and Basil Rathbone and my own pre-pubertal state, where a neutered Holmes was a vast relief from my personal real life. 

I'm guessing that these days the contingent who want John and Sherlock to have sexual feeling and a "sex life" (or at some frisson) see this as a good and positive thing. I'm guessing, (not having any children to ask) suggesting a fan's interest in the pair represents some secret "inclination" or "proclivity" or even "unhealthy interest" is an buzz-kill wrt enthusiasm. Acceptance of gender fluidity is a good thing, however, inserting "orientation" creates a burden every nonconformist loathes ... 

Edited by SusanSunflower
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Peace 47

Peace 47

(edited)

I think the battle of preserving the sanctity of canon was lost somewhere between Irene Adler being a self-identified lesbian dominatrix who still fell in love with Sherlock Holmes and Mary Morstan being a building-scaling pregnant ninja assassin (lol), but point taken.

I just really didn't like the condescension to fans that came across (to my eye) in that interview.  I just hope that they learned their lesson for S4 and don't put in any more hilarious "jokes," like Mrs. Hudson (who knows them better than nearly anybody) still insisting that they were a couple.

Edited by Peace 47
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rereader2

rereader2

(edited)
9 hours ago, Winter Rose said:

They're also not saying people can't still ship Johnlock, if anything they're encouraging it, it's just that that's not what they're writing.

ITA with all of your comment, Winter Rose, but especially this part.

Edited by rereader2
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rereader2

rereader2

(edited)
37 minutes ago, Peace 47 said:

I just really didn't like the condescension to fans that came across (to my eye) in that interview. 

I have to say I've never seen any condescension to fans--if anything, both of them have been consistently and unusually very supportive of fanworks. It's only fair for them to point out that, just as fans want their own visions to be respected, the fans should respect Mofftiss's vision within the context of the show (which is, after all, their own fanwork--and this too is something they have freely, and most unusually, cop to).

Edited by rereader2
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catrox14

catrox14

Not sure where else to put this but it's new Hillywood Show Sherlock Parody.  These women are so talented. This was a lot of fun. Filled with spoilers from all seasons. Mods if there is a better place feel free to move this post.

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AnnieBeez

AnnieBeez

11 hours ago, catrox14 said:

Not sure where else to put this but it's new Hillywood Show Sherlock Parody.  These women are so talented. This was a lot of fun. Filled with spoilers from all seasons. Mods if there is a better place feel free to move this post.

Amazing! Thanks for sharing.

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Mom x 3

Mom x 3

On August 20, 2016 at 1:14 PM, catrox14 said:

Not sure where else to put this but it's new Hillywood Show Sherlock Parody.  These women are so talented. This was a lot of fun. Filled with spoilers from all seasons. Mods if there is a better place feel free to move this post.

So glad you posted this!  I remember watching their hilarious Twilight parodies.  You are correct - insanely talented.

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catrox14

catrox14

59 minutes ago, HospiceDoc said:

So glad you posted this!  I remember watching their hilarious Twilight parodies.  You are correct - insanely talented.

They did a SPOT ON Supernatural parody that I just love.

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Willowy

Willowy

On 8/20/2016 at 1:14 PM, catrox14 said:

Not sure where else to put this but it's new Hillywood Show Sherlock Parody.  These women are so talented. This was a lot of fun. Filled with spoilers from all seasons. Mods if there is a better place feel free to move this post.

 

Are you even remotely serious? I've never seen this before and it's bloody brilliant! THANK you!

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Winter Rose

Winter Rose

I'm glad Sherlock was able to win something (I liked the special up through the conspiracy). I would've liked to see Ben win too but it's okay, he (and everyone else really) probably never had a chance against anyone from The People vs. O.J. Simpson.

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Peace 47

Peace 47

I love Honest Trailers (the Star Trek 2009 one is still one of those YouTube videos that I periodically go back to and rewatch over and over and over).  But the jokes didn't really land for me on this one.  The things they poked fun at aren't that inherently hilarious to me, I guess, other than maybe the reverse smile gag.  Like, is John's running style what stands out when you think about the show?  Maybe I'm just getting bored with this show overall and new actual content will renew my interest.  They're right about it being a superhero show in disguise, though.

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Peace 47

Peace 47

(edited)

Martin Freeman was on Colbert on Friday night.  (Not sure if there are working links to it beyond the CBS paid subscription app, but try Vimeo if you're interested.)  I actually didn't watch the interview because I first saw someone's online post that said Colbert pulled out a piece of Johnlock fan art (non-explicit) during the interview and asked Freeman to comment on it, and I am so beyond tired of media figures doing this at the mere suggestion of a gay relationship.  (Graham Norton and Caitlin Moran have done this, too.)  Is it always inevitably hilarious when fans ship any non-canon pairings at all or solely when it's gay?  And having read that the fan who was the subject of Caitlin Moran's foray into this area was mortified at the introduction of her fandom-space work to the actors in a public forum where it was played as a huge joke, I'm always sensitive to this issue.

Anyway, they showed a very short, humorous clip from the first episode of S4, "The Six Thatchers," which I did watch on someone's Tumblr.  John and Lestrade are teasing Sherlock as all three are headed out the door of 221B.  John and Lestrade talk about how much work a new baby is and imply that John already has experience dealing with a demanding, self-centered infant by virtue of being BFFs with Sherlock.  Sherlock at first doesn't understand the sarcasm, then slowly picks up that they are making a joke at his expense.  Not much to it:  just a light moment.

I also posted a link to the new BBC S4 trailer in the S4 trailer thread.  That one looks pretty good.

Edited by Peace 47
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Peace 47

Peace 47

PBS promotional picture for S4 with the cast came out in the past day or so.  This is the newest.  There was also a promotional ... what I'll call a cross between a picture and a teaser trailer ... days ago that shows Sherlock and John vacantly sitting in a flooded 221B living room.  Here's a link. 

The episode description for The Six Thatchers is making the rounds, as well.  (Mild spoilers insofar as it contains a general plot description.)

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