General Gabbery: DWTS

[St. Claire]

Someone in the episode thread brought up whether there will be a guest judge for the finale. Since we've been stuck with Julianne multiple times, what pro would you like to see back as guest judge? I vote Louis.

[WhitneyWhit]

I would love to see Anna, in fact, I would love to see her replace Carrie Ann.

[CED9]

Anna, Kym, or Louis would work. Maybe Chelsie.

[fembotz]

Anna would be great. I think she gives really good general (not too specific) technical criticisms on Afterbuzz. Her being there to tell Charlie not to swim in his paso after his cha cha or pointing out that he takes too many steps (which she said in Week 1 and remained a problem for him well into the season) would have helped him a lot. And she'd lecture everyone about proper footwear too, and as a former pro I think she knows the drill and what the pros are working with/against and would just be a great choice. 

[CED9]

So, according to CAI's blog, one of the finalists dances will be a redo of their Switch Up Week dance.

[Hybiscus]

So, according to CAI's blog, one of the finalists dances will be a redo of their Switch Up Week dance.

 

Well, let's see... It isn't Charlie's rumba.  :(

 

Meryl had Argentine Tango with Val - score of 39

James had Tango with Cheryl - score 35

Amy had Salsa with Mark - 34

Candace had Quickstep with Tony - 25

 

Hmmm, wonder who it'll be.

[fembotz]

It's actually ALL the couples who are doing a re-do of their switch week dance:

 

 

I’m also looking forward to seeing each of the couples redo the routines they did when we had the switch up week but with their real partners again.

 

So everyone will be doing the dances you listed above!

[CED9]

Yes, sorry I worded it weirdly! That's what I meant, fembotz.

[Bitsy]

Their switch-up DANCE or their switch-up ROUTINE?  Like, does Maks get to choreograph a new AT or are they redoing Val's?

[CED9]

Excellent question! I'm going to assume they're choreographing new ones tailored to them with their pro. They all said they'd be learning 4 new dances this week.

[Flick]

I'd kind of like to see them have to merge the two. Or maybe I just want to see Meryl dance with Maks and Val. As a sidenote, it took me 3 times to not type Mal and Vaks.

[smiley13]

This show would be oh so much better if Golden Boy would ride off into the sunset.  He taints every season that he is on.  The judges let him get away with so much that they call out other people for.  And I hope he takes his smoke machine with him when he goes.

 

If anyone else had spent most of the dance sitting on a table they would have been slammed for it.

[Quickbeam]

On Good Morning America yesterday (I recorded it to see Charlie) they said Meryl had over 50% of the total vote. For me that says this is a runaway. If it can't be Charlie, I'm good with Meryl. 

[Glaadrial]

On Good Morning America yesterday (I recorded it to see Charlie) they said Meryl had over 50% of the total vote. For me that says this is a runaway. If it can't be Charlie, I'm good with Meryl. 

Yowsers! Facebook had her at 34% of Favorite Dance of the non-Duel dances and I thought that was a runaway. 50% is just mind-boggling. I'm definitely okay with a no contest win for her, but I'll still be on edge until it actually happens...if it happens.

[Barbara Manatee]

Are you sure about that? I remember them announcing that in GMA's online poll of which was the favorite dance on Monday, Meryl got over 50%. They didn't say anything about the official voting.

[Flick]

Any talk of ALM having a lasting negative impact on the show's ratings were unnecessary. When it was up against the regular line up (so without the premiere of the launch of a miniseries of a massively popular show), ratings were right back where they've been all season.

[Quickbeam]

Are you sure about that?

 

I'm rarely sure about anything. I watched the show and they had a big banner that said 50+% of the vote went to Meryl. I didn't hear anything about a viewer poll. I thought maybe they had inside info since they are ABC. 

[Mrs. P.]

I personally think that Derek, who has been anointed as the greatest choreographer of his generation, should be retired as a contestant and brought back in as a consultant.  That way someone else would have a chance to win the MBT and Derek-fatigue wouldn't keep driving viewers away.

 

I think there's a very good chance that he and Amy will win the trophy this season, which would be a travesty for me.  Meryl and Maks should win - hands down.

[OakGoblinFly]

I personally think that Derek, who has been anointed as the greatest choreographer of his generation, should be retired as a contestant and brought back in as a consultant.  That way someone else would have a chance to win the MBT and Derek-fatigue wouldn't keep driving viewers away.

 

I think there's a very good chance that he and Amy will win the trophy this season, which would be a travesty for me.  Meryl and Maks should win - hands down.

 

 

Why would the show ever consider doing that?  Love or hate Derek, he is very popular and brings the ratings as well as generates lots of talk/buzz about the show; he is the pro that has made the most of his opportunity and personally I think that should be applauded and not frowned upon.  

 

Personally I don't think that Amy winning would be a travesty nor do I think Meryl and Maks should win "hands down" -- personally most of their routines have been technically sound yet left me cold.  I felt that a great deal of the routines were "paint by number" (twirl here, now let;s do a flip, time to stare all angsty into the distant, create some lovely lines, then sink to the floor/walk off to the sunset) ---- that falls on Maks for not creating more interesting routines, though Meryl has some blame as I don't find her emotions while dancing genuine (she seems like a delight in dance packages) they are (for me) too forced.

[Toonces464]

I'm rarely sure about anything. I watched the show and they had a big banner that said 50+% of the vote went to Meryl. I didn't hear anything about a viewer poll. I thought maybe they had inside info since they are ABC. 

 

I don't think GMA would have that info. I don't think they give it out, especially to media outlets. I can only remember the voting numbers being mentioned twice - In the Season 8 finale when they said less than 1% of the votes separated Shawn and Gilles and in the Season 10 semi finals when they said Nicole, Evan, Erin and Chad had all led the voting at some point during the season.

Edited May 14, 2014 by Toonces464

[Toonces464]

Brought over from the Maks folder.

 

Here's the thing... The emphasis is probably more appropriately ICE dancers. At the end of the day they are ICE skaters not dancers. Transfer of weight, momentum, and lower body movement is all incredibly different on skates than on the floor. That's one of the reasons we saw Charlie struggle so much with Latin movement and while Meryl struggled far less, I would say that early on she did have some struggles. The patterns required in ice dance are more approximations of ballroom steps than direct translations of them.

 

 

They're still professionally trained dancers. There may be some variations between the ice and the floor but in the end they're still trained dancers. 

 

I find it amusing how Maks (and Erin) have stopped whining about Nicole now that he has the trained dancer.

[Flick]

They're still professionally trained dancers. There may be some variations between the ice and the floor but in the end they're still trained dancers.

I find it amusing how Maks (and Erin) have stopped whining about Nicole now that he has the trained dancer.

From most of my understanding, Charlie and Meryl will throw themselves into what dance the program requires but to classify them as professionally trained dancers might be a bit much because that's immediately applied to the ice where the bottom half of their body doesn't necessarily sync to what's done on the floor. I'm not saying there aren't advantages, but I think they come more from athleticism, being trained performers, and history of working with partners than it does from the techniques learned for skating. They have 17 years of training in a sport where much of the technique will actually result in a lot of the lower body requirements being counterintuitive to them which we saw a lot of in Charlie tending to be flat footed or on his heels and struggles with almost any sort of hip motion.

[mehtotheworld]

I'd say that's about right regarding the ice dancers. They definitely have advantages, but just look at the infamous sickled foot!

 

Regardless, isn't this a moot point when the judges have essentially invalidated themselves by bunching their scores together? That just makes the viewer vote count even more, and people will like whomever they like for whatever reasons they like that don't necessarily have anything to do with dance ability. How many times do you hear people talking about voting for the journey or personality or anything beyond the performance? If Meryl and Charlie had been any less adorable, they would have been gone regardless of how well they could dance. I mean, wtf is Candace (whom I actually find rather endearing most of the time) still doing there over Charlie?

[Dots And Stripes]

I'm rarely sure about anything. I watched the show and they had a big banner that said 50+% of the vote went to Meryl. I didn't hear anything about a viewer poll. I thought maybe they had inside info since they are ABC. 

It was GMA's own poll that they do every week. Here's the video . Michael is kind of vague, but if you look at the graphic it says GMA flash poll. The question asked was about your favorite dance, not which couple did you vote for. It's also been clearer in past weeks that they're using their own numbers. Still, 58% is a huge number for a poll when there are 5 couples left. Even if these numbers are somewhat skewed, it's a good sign for Meryl and Maks.

[Barbara Manatee]

There may be some variations between the ice and the floor but in the end they're still trained dancers.

 

All you have to do to see how very different the ice and the floor are is to watch their skating and dancing versions of the quickstep, foxtrot, or tango. They hardly look like the same people, especially Charlie. On the floor, they're very good amateurs. On ice, they're practically gods.

[smiley13]

 

I mean, wtf is Candace (whom I actually find rather endearing most of the time) still doing there over Charlie?

For me, it is why is Amy still there over Charlie??  She barely dances.  I thought that I had seen the worst with Amber last year, but Amy takes the cake,

[Hybiscus]

I mean, wtf is Candace (whom I actually find rather endearing most of the time) still doing there over Charlie?

 

For me, it is why is Amy still there over Charlie??  She barely dances.

 

And let's not forget James, who can't get his butt under control in hold.

 

Geez, I'm still depressed about this. *gak*

Edited May 14, 2014 by goinggone

[smiley13]

 

And let's not forget James, who can't get his butt under control in hold.

James' butt looks just fine to me.  :)

[Toonces464]

All you have to do to see how very different the ice and the floor are is to watch their skating and dancing versions of the quickstep, foxtrot, or tango. They hardly look like the same people, especially Charlie. On the floor, they're very good amateurs. On ice, they're practically gods.

But they are dancers. They know how to be coached and how to train, They know how to learn, master and execute choreography, 

 

Just because I use Chrome over Internet Explorer doesn't mean I'm not an IE expert compared to someone who's never turned on a computer.

Edited May 14, 2014 by radishcake

[fembotz]

They aren't dancers, they are skaters with dance training. 

[Barbara Manatee]

I agree that Charlie and Meryl have advantages, but I don't think there's such a wide gap in experience that they shouldn't even have been allowed to compete. None of the contestants are people who have never danced before. Actors, singers, athletes - they've all been trained to perform and to move their bodies in precise ways.

[soapfaninnc]

They aren't dancers, they are skaters with dance training. 

This. And after Jennifer Grey - the word ringer holds ZERO meaning to me any longer. She had dance training from one of the best. She's a fabulous dancer and I had no problems with her being there or winning even if she was with golden boy.  

[gigi1701]

 

They're still professionally trained dancers. There may be some variations between the ice and the floor but in the end they're still trained dancers.

Yes and no. I have done ballet, ice skating, belly dancing, Flamenco dancing, Tai Chi, Chi Kung, tap, jazz, modern, Tango, Irish step. Each and every one is different and muscle memory is very strong. The hardest combination was when I was doing Ballet and ice skating. The weight is so totally different, the foot is so totally different, in ballet you spin on your toe or ball of the foot, ice skating is flat, really hard to not do what the muscles know. The second hardest is Ballet and belly dance, talk about opposites!!  Yes the flexibility is the same the strength, the ability to learn choreography. But unlearning muscle memory is not an easy task, nor is having a concurrent show commitment. The time to learn a choreography is nonexistent. So with all of that going on, Charlie and Meryl are more evened out as far as advantage. I think Meryl is doing better only because Sharna lacked experienced and made choreography mistakes and Meryl can really bring it on an emotional level. Charlie may be upbeat and happy, but he was not as strong on the internal parts, the character, selling the feeling of the dance. 

 

 

Actors, singers, athletes - they've all been trained to perform and to move their bodies in precise ways.

Yes absolutely, I trained in acting too. Movement, motivation, all is important and every art is different, you have to unlearn what you are trained in and almost start over. BUT, the part of you that will reach into your emotional places is the same in every art. Some people are willing to do that, some can't be that exposed. But for me is is a bigger part of dance than what you $^%# toes are doing or if they are even on your body at all.

Edited May 15, 2014 by gigi1701

[superdeluxe]

Why would the show ever consider doing that?  Love or hate Derek, he is very popular and brings the ratings as well as generates lots of talk/buzz about the show; he is the pro that has made the most of his opportunity and personally I think that should be applauded and not frowned upon.  

 

Personally I don't think that Amy winning would be a travesty nor do I think Meryl and Maks should win "hands down" -- personally most of their routines have been technically sound yet left me cold.  I felt that a great deal of the routines were "paint by number" (twirl here, now let;s do a flip, time to stare all angsty into the distant, create some lovely lines, then sink to the floor/walk off to the sunset) ---- that falls on Maks for not creating more interesting routines, though Meryl has some blame as I don't find her emotions while dancing genuine (she seems like a delight in dance packages) they are (for me) too forced.

 

Totally agree.  Love or hate Derek, he is very popular.  Not sure if he brings the ratings, but he does generate tons of talk/buzz about the show.  He seems to be respected out there.  He should be applauded for that, not frowned upon.

 

I also don't think Meryl and Maks should win "hands down".  I haven't really paid attention to their dances, but when I did, I wasn't wowed.  It the same old boring Maks choreography.  The walking, the spinning -- we've seen all of that.  He didn't step up his choreography game at all.  He was bested by his own brother during the switch up week.  Most of the time I can't even remember their dances by the end of the night unless it was met with some kind of controversy like the non-foxtrot and the non-rumba.  Then, there's all of this talk about how Meryl "changed" Maks or whatever.  No.  It's still the same Maks.  He is handed the super ringer and he still acts an ass by whipping up a showmance to get people talking/gain shippers, insulting his former partners and throwing tantrums like a child.  Plus, if they do win, that win won't be about Meryl.  It will be all about Maks.  I can't support that.

[OakGoblinFly]

But they are dancers. They know how to be coached and how to train, They know how to learn, master and execute choreography, 

 

Just because I use Chrome over Internet Explorer doesn't mean I'm not an IE expert compared to someone who's never turned on a computer.

 

 

And even if the bottom half is different, the top half is very much the same with regards to top line, form, hold, and so on ..... both Charlie and Meryl came in with a HUGE advantage (more so than Nichole S. ever did) and are as close to a professional dancer as one can get without being an actual professional dancer.

 

I'm not upset about it - I just thing it is disingenuous to not acknowledge that.

[fembotz]

The hold in ice dance is not that similar to hold in ballroom IMO. I had an occasion to rewatch their "samba" (with a rumba pattern thrown in the middle) short dance today and had to laugh at how it bore little to no resemblance to samba and literally no resemblance to rumba at all whatsoever. 

 

I don't think they are more ringers than Nicole S. who I believe was a dance major in college and danced professionally with a troupe in L.A. and in music videos before coming on the show. But yes, I'd say they are in the Top 5 ringers on the show for sure. But as Charlie's performance shows (and he and Meryl take their dance lessons together so they have the same amount of experience), it doesn't make them bulletproof favorites. 

 

 

He didn't step up his choreography game at all.

 

I really disagree with this. I think Maks' choreo with Meryl has been a lot edgier than it's been in recent seasons. His dances look like they belong on DWTS as it exists now and not as it existed ten seasons ago, which was my main reservation when he was paired with Meryl. Her dances have consistently been among the most liked on Facebook and most viewed on YouTube too, which I think is an endorsement of their quality. Her dance with Val was still the most viewed, though, last I saw! It's probably my favorite too, just for sheer wow factor. I'm sad she hasn't got to do more dances with lifts as they are her forte! 

[Toonces464]

I really disagree with this. I think Maks' choreo with Meryl has been a lot edgier than it's been in recent seasons. 

 

I don't think it's been much different. It's just been danced better by the biggest ringer the show's ever had

 

I was delighted to hear the AfterBuzz crew talk about how simplistic their jive was. I thought it was the kind of choreography he would have given to Melissa Gilbert. Meryl's abilities, both as a dancer and a performer, make it look like more than it is..

[Glaadrial]

Her dances have consistently been among the most liked on Facebook and most viewed on YouTube too, which I think is an endorsement of their quality. Her dance with Val was still the most viewed, though, last I saw! It's probably my favorite too, just for sheer wow factor. I'm sad she hasn't got to do more dances with lifts as they are her forte! 

I don't know how to look up the most viewed information from YouTube. Are there different postings of dances that have different numbers what I see are:

     M&M Foxtrot    144,769 

     M&V AT             50,622

     M&M Tango     180,783

[Flick]

I don't know how to look up the most viewed information from YouTube. Are there different postings of dances that have different numbers what I see are:

     M&M Foxtrot    144,769 

     M&V AT             50,622

     M&M Tango     180,783

There are different view counts for different videos. The channel I use because the videos are usually uploaded in HD very quickly after the show airs and it includes rehearsal footage has the following:

• Cha Cha Cha (3) - 217,108
• Swing (2)- 232,323
• Foxtrot (4) - 162,737
• AT (1) - 370,311
• Samba (6) - 154,375
• Tango (5) - 159,671
• Salsa (7) - 118,037
• Rumba (8) - 74,798
• Jive (10) - 24,415
• VW (9) - 27,867

 

I left them in the order they were danced because that is somewhat important to take into consideration, but in parentheses is how they rank in overall views.

[mehtotheworld]

I was delighted to hear the AfterBuzz crew talk about how simplistic their jive was. I thought it was the kind of choreography he would have given to Melissa Gilbert. Meryl's abilities, both as a dancer and a performer, make it look like more than it is..

I think simplistic is a reach. It wasn't Sharna-level choreography, but I wouldn't say they indicated it was simplistic, no? Anyway, Anna said in her blog that it was packed and basically had no critiques. is there any person more familiar with the jive than I that can chime in? 

[katha]

I think Maks has been absolutely murdering it this season, choreography-wise. IMO his best work since Mel B. He's incorporated some new elements to account for the way DWTS has changed throughout the years without losing his identity as a choreographer. All the dances had always good to excellent technical content and emotional resonance with many in the audience (going by the social media response to them). That's what's important, not "giving her content like a pro". It's a popularity contest, it's about finding the balance between appealing to the judges and to the audience. The judges have repeatedly commented on the difficulty and originality of his choreography this season, and he got her to the final so the audience is obviously on board with them.

 

And again, I don't want to dump on Sharna because she's done a very good job and having a male ringer is harder, but is "give them content like a pro" really the way to go? It didn't help Charlie that he was sometimes given content that seemed beyond his capabilities. And judging by the way first day rehearsals looked for the tango, I'm not sure Meryl is capable of more than she's doing now (and she's doing plenty content). Or pushing beyond that likely comes with a price tag (see getting injured in the week with Val). Just because it looks easy breezy on Monday, doesn't mean she isn't struggling throughout the week. I think it's smart of Maks to go the "make sure it looks awesome on Monday" route because the audience doesn't mind that you presumably only gave her 90% of what she can handle instead of 150% to satisfy some dancing experts (not all, plenty of them have been praising Maks' work this season) and risk getting chewed out by the judges for looking messy. He's been making one smart decision after another this season, and I'm honestly surprised, I like Maks, but he can be erratic throughout a season. Not this season. Good for him.

[rhg63]

The success of most athletes on DWTS (compared to other 'celebrities') is IMO due to the facts that that 1) they are used to using their bodies in specific ways and are physically strong. This makes it easier for them to perform.  Note the Meryl looks petite and almost fragile, but she's solid muscle, as I noticed in some of the shots during the Olympics;  2) they are used to taking instruction and following it in the use of their bodies.  All athletes are used to being 'coached' and told what to do--and expected to do it.  This makes it easier for them to learn the routines.

 

My personal belief is that Charlie would have done better with a better professional--i.e., giving him the 'coaching' he needed and choreographic to his strengths.  This is what Derek does so well (although I'm not a Derek fan, he is clearly outstanding at this).

[Bitsy]

For the record, the Afterbuzz folks did not call Meryl's jive "simplistic".  That's an exaggeration. 

 

Here was Anna Trebunskaya's take:

Meryl's Jive: Watching Meryl and Maks was like watching two professional Jive dancers! Let me tell you, that was a packed routine with lots of syncopation, rhythm and speed changes. Meryl is such a beautiful dancer with impeccable lines and light footwork that you almost forget that her home is on the ice and not the ballroom. No critiques from me. I can't wait to see what she will bring in the finale!

I'm not a fan of the jive as a dance, and I was disappointed when they were assigned that dance because we already saw them do something similar with their swing dance.  It was not an exciting routine to me, nor was it flashy, but it was all about being executed perfectly.  No points off for being out of sync or not finishing movements, which is what so many contestants are always being dinged for.

[galax-arena]

I think a poster on TWOP had it right when she said that the Houghs were DWTS's version of the Lannisters.

[St. Claire]

Each and every [dance] is different and muscle memory is very strong....But unlearning muscle memory is not an easy task, nor is having a concurrent show commitment.

 

When I was in college, I took a number of dance classes as electives. Some of the dance majors faced some challenges in the areas that were not their main focus. I remember the ballet dancers in my jazz class, trying so hard to make themselves be stompy and stacatto for a particular routine the teacher had choreographed, and being so frustrated. Eveyrone assumes that all of the dancers would be able to easily do all of the dances, but you body doesn't always react the way you want it to. Boxers should also be great with footwork, but there was a huge difference between Evandar Holyfield's performance and Sugar Ray Leonard's.

[radishcake]

I think a poster on TWOP had it right when she said that the Houghs were DWTS's version of the Lannisters.

Hopefully I'm not the only one who read that and thought ewwwwww. ;D

[Corazi]

Hopefully I'm not the only one who read that and thought ewwwwww. ;D

Haha.... my first thought was "I hope they're more like Jaime and Tyrion"

[Flick]

Hopefully I'm not the only one who read that and thought ewwwwww. ;D

You definitely aren't.

[galax-arena]

LOL, you guys made me hunt down the original quote:

The Houghs are the Lannisters of DWTS. Blond, popping up everywhere, always trying to collect gold statues and trying to conquer shit.

[bearcatfan]

 

For the record, the Afterbuzz folks did not call Meryl's jive "simplistic".  That's an exaggeration.

They called Candace's jazz and Amy's jazz simple. They thought it was a good decision for Candace, there was a disagreement about that for Amy.

 

What they said about Meryl is that they wanted more. I don't think that was meant to imply that it was simple, except in comparison to what Charlie's been doing as they have pointed out the difficult choreography he has done week after week. My impression was that they thought that she could do the level of difficulty that Charlie has been doing and wanted to see it. The assumption was that she could because Charlie can. I think it was Jules that pointed out that they are not in rehearsals and don't actually know what's going on. They are almost always complimentary of Meryl and her technique. FWIW, I believe Charlie was ok with the difficulty even if it wasn't clean as he wanted to be challenged. Meryl is more of a perfectionist so I could see her being ok with something a little less difficult that she performs clean.

 

That's a long winded version of saying I agree that simplistic is an exaggeration of what was said.

Edited May 16, 2014 by bearcatfan