Grey's Relationships: Leapfrog Group

[SevenStars]

Clearly I suck at titles,  So please suggest some clever titles for this thread and I will throw this lame title to the trash. 

 

Anyway, I created this thread to talk about all the relationships that are in the show, romantic, friendship, family etc....

 

 

So I start: I just saw a clip of Stephanie and Andrew Decluca, they had a really nice chemistry and I was wondering why the writers didn't go with them instead of Maggie and Deluca. I mean I'm really enjoying  Maggie and Delcua but I was just wondering why not Stephanie and Deluca ?

Edited November 22, 2015 by SevenStars

[OtterMommy]

Clear I suck at titles,  So please suggest some clever titles for this thread and I will throw this lame title to the trash. 

 

Anyway, I created this thread to talk about all the relationships that are in the show, romantic, friendship, family etc....

 

 

So I start: I just saw a clip of Stephanie and Andrew Decluca, they had a really nice chemistry and I was wondering why the writers didn't go with them instead of Maggie and Deluca. I mean I'm really enjoying  Maggie and Delcua but I was just wondering why not Stephanie and Deluca ?

 

My guess is that, because Jo and Alex are pretty much "official" at this point, their well of "surgeons screwing their subordinates" was running dry.

[SevenStars]

My guess is that, because Jo and Alex are pretty much "official" at this point, their well of "surgeons screwing their subordinates" was running dry.

I don't understand why this setup is necessary. It just makes it boring because it have been done so many times.

[Marni]

I don't mind Maggie and DeLuca but I think DeLuca's character development is going to suffer from putting him into a relationship so early. I would have preferred if they let the audience get to know him more and established who he is as a person separate from anyone else before they got together later in the season. 

 

This was always a problem for me with Callie and Arizona. Arizona benefited from having her own arc with Bailey before they paired her with Callie, but I always felt like because Callie was the older, much more developed character at the start of their relationship the writers got into the habit of telling their storylines more from Callie's perspective and neglected to show Arizona's pov onscreen consistently. I do like them as a couple but I have been really enjoying getting to know Arizona on her own these last two seasons.

[Nobodysfan]

Clearly I suck at titles,  So please suggest some clever titles for this thread and I will throw this lame title to the trash. 

 

Anyway, I created this thread to talk about all the relationships that are in the show, romantic, friendship, family etc....

 

 

So I start: I just saw a clip of Stephanie and Andrew Decluca, they had a really nice chemistry and I was wondering why the writers didn't go with them instead of Maggie and Deluca. I mean I'm really enjoying  Maggie and Delcua but I was just wondering why not Stephanie and Deluca ?

Shonda likes McCreary more than Hinton, my personal opinion.  So she gave her a handsome hot acting partner.

Rhimes is always personal and her like or dislike of an actor is reflected on the writing for that character and his or her storyline and love interests. JMO

 

I think Hinton would have thousand times better chemistry with Giacomo than Kelly does.

Edited December 7, 2015 by Nobodysfan

[Nobodysfan]

My guess is that, because Jo and Alex are pretty much "official" at this point, their well of "surgeons screwing their subordinates" was running dry.

Another possible reason,too.

[represent]

 

 

Shonda likes McCreary more than Hinton, my personal opinion.  So she gave her a handsome hot acting partner.

Rhimes is always personal and her like or dislike of an actor is reflected on the writing for that character and his or her storyline and love interests. JMO

That's how I see it, plus a bit more...

 

I think the actress can act, I think she's cute, something tells me TPTB don't agree, so I have no idea why she's there. To fill a quota? Don't get it as I've never really gotten a lot of things on this show.

 

Hinton has surely been there longer and I personally like her character more. I like Maggie but not like I like Stephanie. 

 

But keep in mind, that Stephanie, unlike Maggie has no ties to Meredith Grey, so the writers are definitely not going to care much about her even moreso. 

 

They just used her way back when for Jackson and April, but they don't care otherwise.

 

Whatever it is, it rubs this viewer the wrong way.

Edited December 7, 2015 by represent

[North]

This was always a problem for me with Callie and Arizona. Arizona benefited from having her own arc with Bailey before they paired her with Callie, but I always felt like because Callie was the older, much more developed character at the start of their relationship the writers got into the habit of telling their storylines more from Callie's perspective and neglected to show Arizona's pov onscreen consistently. I do like them as a couple but I have been really enjoying getting to know Arizona on her own these last two seasons.

While I do feel both Callie and Arizona's story's got too intertwined with each other, I don't feel we really have gotten to know Arizona in any real way since they split up.

 

There seemed to be something coming with the Herman storyline, but it turned into Amelia's story.

 

Right now Arizona is getting back into the dating game, but why does she feel she needs a wingman?  We don't really know where Arizona is coming from.  Is this a lack of confidence because she hasn't been out there for awhile?  She had Lauren and Leah chase after her and that helped her be okay with the leg, but what happened that caused this setback with her confidence?  Is it simply because Callie (rightfully) walked away?

Edited December 8, 2015 by North

[Marni]

While I do feel both Callie and Arizona's story's got too intertwined with each other, I don't feel we really have gotten to know Arizona in any real way since they split up.

 

There seemed to be something coming with the Herman storyline, but it turned into Amelia's story.

 

Right now Arizona is getting back into the dating game, but why does she feel she needs a wingman?  We don't really know where Arizona is coming from.  Is this a lack of confidence because she hasn't been out there for awhile?  She had Lauren and Leah chase after her and that helped her be okay with the leg, but what happened that caused this setback with her confidence?  Is it simply because Callie (rightfully) walked away?

By seeing her interact with different characters and have new problems I do think we have seen some different shades in Arizona's personality, but I definitely agree with these concerns. Last season I was especially disappointed the Herman arc was left so unresolved. There was so much build up of their relationship and then it was like it never happened, no exploration of the effect it had on Arizona. They could have used all that screen time to build her relationship with an existing character and carried that forward. This season her storylines do often feel driven by creating comedy for the episode leaving many unanswered questions (still don't get why she needs a roommate). Although I have enjoyed her friendship with April and I think that has lots of potential. 

 

It really comes down to having way too large a cast. I have these exact same concerns and questions for nearly every character right now, not just Arizona.

[taanja]

Anyone else think the actor who plays Deluca looks very much like (a younger) Patrick Dempsey? I mean I do a double take whenever he walks into a scene.

[statsgirl]

So I start: I just saw a clip of Stephanie and Andrew Decluca, they had a really nice chemistry and I was wondering why the writers didn't go with them instead of Maggie and Deluca. I mean I'm really enjoying  Maggie and Delcua but I was just wondering why not Stephanie and Deluca ?

Another reason, in addition to those above, is that it turns the attending/resident trope on its head.  In the first seasons, it was a female resident (Meredith, Cristina) with a male attending (Derek, Burke). Now it's reversed.  Still wrong, but at least it's flipped.

[Nobodysfan]

Anyone else think the actor who plays Deluca looks very much like (a younger) Patrick Dempsey? I mean I do a double take whenever he walks into a scene.

I get the same feeling. 

 

Would you say Deluca and Maggie have chemistry? I have read people´s comments here and there and their opinions do vary.

 

I would say in a few scenes they have had a little degree of chemistry,but generally no. What do you think?

Edited January 7, 2016 by Nobodysfan

[SevenStars]

I get the same feeling.

Would you say Deluca and Maggie have chemistry? I have read people´s comments here and there and their opinions do vary.

I would say in a few scenes they have had a little degree of chemistry,but generally no. What do you think?

I think they have good chemistry, not great but good enough that if the writing is good, they will be a great couple. Both actors can act and seems to have an ease with each other that makes their scenes together work. But if/when they encounter bad writing I don't think the chemistry they have will be able to overcome it.

[BaseOps]

I think they have good chemistry, not great but good enough that if the writing is good, they will be a great couple. Both actors can act and seems to have an ease with each other that makes their scenes together work. But if/when they encounter bad writing I don't think the chemistry they have will be able to overcome it.

 

I agree. I mean I haven't been super into their 'story' but I also haven't hated it either. I think both characters are fine, and I think they have decent chemistry. It'll come down, for me, to how they write the rest of it. Now that Giacomo is a regular I think we'll obviously see more of DeLuca, and I'm sure they'll try to develop the relationship as his primary story. That might be the biggest issue - in order to root for him, I need to know more about him than just the fact that he likes Maggie. 

 

For example - I think Jo is fine. I think Camila is a fine actress. But really I don't know much at all about her, so I find her scenes with Alex sort of dull. He's my favourite character, but they've never really developed her as anything unique, so I find it extremely hard to care about storylines that center on the two of them aside from how it will impact Alex.

[windsprints]

I think a lot of it comes down to Shonda giving all of the attention to her shiny new favourites. She has a tendency to add new characters and, rather than giving them time to integrate with the cast, she shoves them down our throats.

Shonda may still have control but it appears that Debbie Allen and Bill & Stacy are running the show now so I don't think its fair to place all the blame on just Shonda. Shonda seems pretty hands off at Grey's these days. I'm not sure sue really has favorites other than Meredith.

So I don't think it's just the cast size, I just think that's a major part of it. If Maggie, Amelia, Penny, Deluca, Riggs, etc. hadn't been added, then I think Alex, Jo, Callie, Bailey, Ben, etc. would have naturally been given something more to do throughout the year.

As someone else pointed out (Deanie87 I think) those characters (except DeLuca who was added to give Maggie a love interest) were all added to create a new family/circle for Meredith after Derek and Cristina left. All she had was Alex and sometimes Callie since she barely speaks to Richard, Bailey, Arizona, April, Jackson, etc. So yes, the increase in cast size for Meredith when they decided she would be the sun is part of it, others all were pushed aside. Look at Callie. She drank wine and talked about sex in the group chats and that was pretty much it until she showed up with Penny.

Edited April 12, 2016 by windsprints

[Deanie87]

Shonda may still have control but it appears that Debbie Allen and Bill & Stacy are running the show now so I don't think its fair to place all the blame on just Shonda. Shonda seems pretty hands off at Grey's these days. I'm not sure sue really has favorites other than Meredith.

As someone else pointed out (Deanie87 I think) those characters (except DeLuca who was added to give Maggie a love interest) were all added to create a new family/circle for Meredith after Derek and Cristina left. All she had was Alex and sometimes Callie since she barely speaks to Richard, Bailey, Arizona, April, Jackson, etc. So yes, the increase in cast size for Meredith when they decided she would be the sun is part of it, others all were pushed aside. Look at Callie. She drank wine and talked about sex in the group chats and that was pretty much it until she showed up with Penny.

 

I think that the new showrunners have a lot to do with who is getting screentime and who isn't, mainly because they have been in charge for the last two years and that is when I saw such a big shift in the way the show was run (as far as how the seasons were unfolding or not unfolding) and the big discrepancy in screentime. I always thought that both McKee and Harper were two of the better writers, but maybe they are just better at writing their individual episodes than they are at crafting a whole season arc, because these last two seasons have just been a nonsensical and jumbled mess, IMO.  Some characters's stories get stopped midway and others drag on and on and on to the point where I just don't care anymore.  As far as Debbie Allen, her presence would explain why Jackson and April are getting so much time and story this season, but I would think that if she is playing favorites (not saying she is, but if), then Jim Pickens would be getting stuff to do as well, and he isn't either.

 

To be fair, there has been a bit of upheaval in the last two seasons and they seem to be reinventing the show into much more of a Meredith-centric series, but it just doesn't make sense to me why they had to bring in these people to surround Meredith when it would seemingly have been easier to just craft better relationships with those who were already there.    I always thought that one of the big points that the show tried to make was that you choose your family, so having actual blood relations matter so much in the end kind of goes against that, especially when it wasn't that way with Lexie (or the other sister) and not much is being made of Maggie's connection to Ellis or Richard anymore. 

 

As far as Shonda or whoever liking the "shiny new things," the thing is that Jo and Stephanie are still kind of shiny, new things, comparatively speaking, and other than Jo getting a lot of build up in season 9, neither of those characters have gotten anything close to what Maggie, Amelia and now Stephanie (not to mention many other guest stars) have gotten in the last two seasons.  It may be because they came in as interns and are now residents, but IMO that opens up a lot more stories than just another superhero attending working on the patient of the week.  My mileage clearly varies against seemingly everyone associated with the show, I guess.

Edited April 12, 2016 by Deanie87

[BaseOps]

To be fair, there has been a bit of upheaval in the last two seasons and they seem to be reinventing the show into much more of a Meredith-centric series, but it just doesn't make sense to me why they had to bring in these people to surround Meredith when it would seemingly have been easier to just craft better relationships with those who were already there. I always thought that one of the big points that the show tried to make was that you choose your family, so having actual blood relations matter so much in the end kind of goes against that, especially when it wasn't that way with Lexie (or the other sister) and not much is being made of Maggie's connection to Ellis or Richard anymore. 

 

This 100%. I've said this since they started trying to force the "sisters" angle on us. Even as a Meredith fan, I get nothing from her relationships with Amelia and Maggie because they don't feel totally genuine to me. I started warming up to Maggie a bit at the end of last season, but she's become a total caricature to me this season. I'd much rather see Meredith talking to / sharing scenes with the characters that she has a real deep history with - Callie, Bailey, Richard, even April and Jackson. I get that with a revolving door of cast members, they need to keep adding new characters - but by the time we got to season 12, we had enough. I quite like Riggs, but I'd 100% prefer screen time going to Alex instead... or even to Bailey, Richard, Callie, Jo, Arizona etc. 

 

As far as Shonda or whoever liking the "shiny new things," the thing is that Jo and Stephanie are still kind of shiny, new things, comparatively speaking, and other than Jo getting a lot of build up in season 9, neither of those characters have gotten anything close to what Maggie, Amelia and now Stephanie (not to mention many other guest stars) have gotten in the last two seasons.  It may be because they came in as interns and are now residents, but IMO that opens up a lot more stories than just another superhero attending working on the patient of the week.  My mileage clearly varies against seemingly everyone associated with the show, I guess.

 

 

Steph and Jo have been around for 4 years now. I think Jo was pretty prominent in S9 & 10 and then she got back-burnered big time last year. Steph never got much focus after Jackson dumped her. She's definitely the only series regular to ever go 2.5 seasons without any semblance of a love interest. The first half of last season, Steph barely had a line per episode - then her only story was basically being Amelia's shouting-board during the Herman / Arizona arc. They've gotten Amelia, Maggie, Deluca, Riggs, Ben, and Penny since those two came in. I think Jackson / April have continued to get strong focus because they're really the only "power couple" that the writers haven't tarnished. Derek is dead, Callie and Arizona are beyond repair, but Jackson and April are always still floating around each other and seemingly always just one scene away from a reunion. I do think it's the writers' fault for not building Alex and Jo up enough, because they could easily be a fun and dramatic focus for romantic stories. They're certainly more interesting than seeing the Resident / Intern dynamic again (Alex and Jo, in fact, already did that story and better.) Steph and Jo were never my favourites, but I've really warmed up to both of them and would have much rather seen them get stories this year and last than ever introducing Amelia, Maggie, Deluca, etc.

[Maukie99]

Meredith and Nathan we can take with purely so now.

[pennben]

As in April and Arizona being a couple?  No, I've never had a second where I thought that. At all.

[BabyBBQKendall]

Hasn't Arizona suffered enough?

[Catznip]

On June 19, 2016 at 8:35 AM, doram said:

So is anyone else getting the impression that the writers planned and ditched an idea of Arizona and April finding second loves in each other? 

No. And thank god they didn't creat an SL like that. Az and April friendship is one of the more appreciated, "I'm your person" since Christina and Mer. 

[timimouse]

So I've been thinking about Callie and Arizona's relationship and this may be an unpopular opinion but I find Callie to be the most selfish person. In some other forums, persons were hoping they'd stay together but I realise now I really don't think Callie deserved Arizona and I'm actually glad she's now gone. 

[BabyBBQKendall]

Most of the characters are pretty self-absorbed and selfish in their relationships, though. It's just that kind of show.

[kingshearte]

On 6/30/2016 at 10:12 AM, timimouse said:

So I've been thinking about Callie and Arizona's relationship and this may be an unpopular opinion but I find Callie to be the most selfish person. In some other forums, persons were hoping they'd stay together but I realise now I really don't think Callie deserved Arizona and I'm actually glad she's now gone. 

No arguments here. I found her biggest flaw was that she would just assume she knew how another person would react to whatever and behave accordingly, without actually listening to that person's actual thoughts on the subject at hand. It was infuriating, especially when she assumed the other person (often Arizona) would react badly, and thus made herself into the victim, even though she hadn't actually been wronged except in her own assumptions.

[saeri]

I am really not trying to start some fanwar between crowen and omelia but I'm curious..

Do you think Owen will end up with Amelia or Cristina? It's just that we all know Meredith's true love was Derek but he died so the possibility of them ending up with another is very unlikely haha. But Cristina is not dead. And we also know that she is Shonda's favorite character. I just feel as if Sandra Oh had not left they somehow they could have had been together. Yes, I know they were toxic. But shonda knew Sandra was leaving at the end of season 9 which is why she made that plot with Owen and the boy... I guess I am just sad because Kevin Mckidd did say that omelia was endgame and I'm pretty sure he is right because there is such a thing of not having just one soulmate. Like Cristina had Burke right? And I'm sure there were fans that were crazy about them but Cristina really saved Owen and for him to just move on so quickly and get married like that's so crazy. I just brought this up now because the whole drama of Amelia leaving Owen and blah like are they over?

yes, I know. Sandra left 3 years ago and most of the fans here seem like they don't like crowen  nor omelia or even owen. I feel odd asking this question like this shit is old ok i know

and also is it just me that greys has a lot of teenager fans now like...

Edited January 24, 2017 by saeri

[OtterMommy]

From @Scatterbrained's post in the 14.08 thread...

Quote

 

From what little I've read, it seems they think the awkwardness and gross factors are humorous. (???)

I'll also add that I'm concerned about where the writing is also going to go for April.  First, they cryptically stated that she would have a very complicated journey.  Recently, I've heard she will deal with life being unfair and bad things happening to good people.  Maybe it will make sense when I see it, but if she didn't figure it out with her first pregnancy, wouldn't she have figured it out with her army doctor days?  It feels like a character regression of sorts (as does Jackson's newly acquired big spending ways).

And I'll state AGAIN that I think the time for Jackson and Maggie to develop some sort of bond (friendship or otherwise) is NOT when April makes a suggestive comment, but when April and Meredith were both gone for months at a time simultaneously and Jackson and Maggie might have maybe leaned on each other a bit for emotional support.

 

I agree completely.  If they were truly serious about Jackson and Maggie, this would have been a long time coming (and, honestly, they would work to quell the whiffs of incest, not magnify them.)

I will admit that I sometimes get the timeline on this show confused, but Richard and Catherine were married when Maggie was introduced, right?  And we knew very early on that Richard was Maggie's biological father.  Honestly, if they wanted to make Maggie and Jackson a thing, they needed to start finessing things very early on--like when Jackson discovers that Maggie is his kinda/sorta step-sister (I can't even remember when he realized that...)  And I get it that we are dealing with two different show runners but, honestly, that's not an excuse.  A new showrunner coming in does not give her or him the authority to rewrite a show's history.

The way the idea of Jackson and Maggie was introduced, as you mentioned, was an out of the blue comment from April.  Was I the only person who saw *nothing* between Jackson and Maggie up to that point?  Yes, he was supportive during her mother's cancer (and strangely involved for plastic surgeon) , but that actually DID come of as very sibling-like to me.  I honestly thought that Maggie's mother's death, and Jackson's support for Maggie, was actually going to lead to Maggie forming a sort of "new" family with Richard and Jackson (and Catherine).  I didn't see, and do not see, how we got from that point to this point.

I miss the days of Grey's when they took the time and care to develop these romantic relationships.  Even though I didn't like all of them, I appreciated how well they are done.  Now we have a show that makes jokes about (albeit non-existent) incest and how to get around it.

[gator12]

41 minutes ago, OtterMommy said:

From @Scatterbrained's post in the 14.08 thread...

I agree completely.  If they were truly serious about Jackson and Maggie, this would have been a long time coming (and, honestly, they would work to quell the whiffs of incest, not magnify them.)

I will admit that I sometimes get the timeline on this show confused, but Richard and Catherine were married when Maggie was introduced, right?  And we knew very early on that Richard was Maggie's biological father.  Honestly, if they wanted to make Maggie and Jackson a thing, they needed to start finessing things very early on--like when Jackson discovers that Maggie is his kinda/sorta step-sister (I can't even remember when he realized that...)  And I get it that we are dealing with two different show runners but, honestly, that's not an excuse.  A new showrunner coming in does not give her or him the authority to rewrite a show's history.

The way the idea of Jackson and Maggie was introduced, as you mentioned, was an out of the blue comment from April.  Was I the only person who saw *nothing* between Jackson and Maggie up to that point?  Yes, he was supportive during her mother's cancer (and strangely involved for plastic surgeon) , but that actually DID come of as very sibling-like to me.  I honestly thought that Maggie's mother's death, and Jackson's support for Maggie, was actually going to lead to Maggie forming a sort of "new" family with Richard and Jackson (and Catherine).  I didn't see, and do not see, how we got from that point to this point.

I miss the days of Grey's when they took the time and care to develop these romantic relationships.  Even though I didn't like all of them, I appreciated how well they are done.  Now we have a show that makes jokes about (albeit non-existent) incest and how to get around it.

Maggie came on at the end of season 10, Cristina interviewed her. She had a big pointless centric episode early on season 11. 

She was there before Richard and Catherine got married. 

[Chas411]

I noticed they started giving them a scene an episode around the beginning of season 13. I didn't even notice it at first it was only on rewatch.

I think the reason they didn't hint at anything early on when Meredith/April were gone  was because they spent all of season 12 trying to lay down similar groundwork for Alex/Maggie and thankfully (possibly because of Jolex, lack of chemistry or because they want to keep Mer/Alex as a possibility) they decided against it and stopped having him awkwardly mention how great she was every episode.

 

The Jackson/Maggie thing is similar and it fits slightly better then Alex/Maggie if only because it's giving Japril some much needed one apart. They see Maggie as the leading lady next to Meredith so they want to give her a leading man. The only issue is Maggies such a pain in the ass she can't generate chemistry with anyone because she acts like a two year old.

[moonorchid]

I noticed what the writers were doing when Maggie’s mom first came on and saw Jackson and Jackson was all “you’re maggie pierces mom, of course I’ll go to Hawaii tontreat you” like hold up, when did he hold Maggie in such high regard? 

I won’t be shocked if there’s a flashback on the future showing Jackson and maggie getting closer during the time april was gone and possibly having an emotional affair or what not, Krista will retcon the eff out of this to make jaggie work.

which make no mistake, they want jaggie to work. Krista doesn’t have any interest in japril and Debbie Allen loves the shit out of maggie.

the issue is Jesse and Kelly have the most awkward chemistry alive and when they try to be sweet or romantic it doesn’t carry any weight, it feels so shallow and pointless. 

[Efzee]

I'm doing a rewatch and just saw Walk On Water (3x15) and how awesome would it be if we see the grown-up version of the little girl (who was with Meredith when she was knocked into the water) show up at the hospital? Maybe she's also a new intern, inspired by what she witnessed that day and helping Meredith treat that patient. I know the new interns have already been picked but she could be like Alex back in the day, showing up late for some reason or another.

Meredith could be the girl's role model and it would make the interns interesting again, especially if we see the girl strive yet struggle when something pops up reminding her of the ferry boat accident. 

Edited December 9, 2017 by Efzee

[JNM5505]

I apologize for being super late in replying to the posts from November in here, but as I said in the 14x08 thread I had personal issues that I am still dealing with. I guess I am trying to cope with that by coming on here, desperate for either a discussion or argument, whatever to take the attention away from the numbing pain. So if you want to argue or discuss, please, feel free! Here or via Private Messaging if PTV has that. :)

So, the Jackson/Maggie thing. Yes, they are dropping hints of a non-existent incest... although, is it non-existent? If y'all look closely, and break it down piece by piece, and not exclusively to the Jaggie scenes. A comment by Catherine here, comment by another person there. It seems like they're preparing for something in 14B, perhaps for humorous effects. I can see it.
"Wait, we're actually brother and sister." (This is said after a bland sex scene, Catherine or Richard recalls a gala from 1981 or something whatever)
"Ew, ew, ew. I had sex with my brother?!" (Audience is supposed to lol their asses off, but we're really puking our guts out)
Or something to that extent. It's going to fall flat because hey, we're already getting the very unsubtle hints at Jaggie actually being incest.

But going backwards in time, to around season 12. Was I the only one to see there was subtle hintings at another incestuous pairing, one that obviously never took place? Clearly, as one character was dead and the other was ill (but we didn't know this at the time) and suffering relapses. I discussed this with a friend in the past and she basically said, "Girl, Bye!" which is understandable. It's not like I actually wanted to have that realization. So anywho, not the first time writers tried to go down the path of incest.

After all, with fourteen seasons gone, what else do they have to explore now?

[flickers]

They've invested a lot of time into Jackson and Maggie now...if it's just an incest joke, it's had one hell of a long setup.

I have a hard time believing two thirty-somethings, who have known each other longer than their "parents" have been married, would start to see their relationship as incestuous. 

Edited December 13, 2017 by flickers

[OtterMommy]

2 hours ago, flickers said:

They've invested a lot of time into Jackson and Maggie now...if it's just an incest joke, it's had one hell of a long setup.

I have a hard time believing two thirty-somethings, who have known each other longer than their "parents" have been married, would start to see their relationship as incestuous. 

They have really written themselves into a corner, haven't they?  If they go ahead with the Jackson and Maggie thing, it has squick written all over it (thanks to the show's own pushing of the incest/consanguinity aspect).  If they write it off as a joke, it will look sloppy and smack of bad writing.  I really don't see how they are going to work their way out of this mess of their own making without much worse.  

And, yes, I get that shows will frequently "try out" couplings to see how they work, but this show has really pushed this particular relationship into a spot that is past trying out.

[moonorchid]

From interviews I don’t think Jackson and maggie isn’t supposed to be anything less than a major staple pairing of the show now. From the writing perspective, I have no idea what’s going on. 

 

But i honestly feel that Jackson and maggie are meant to be taken seriously

[JNM5505]

Maybe... if they were twelve or thirteen. I remember many years ago, when I was much younger than I am now, I shipped this pairing not much younger than me. They were supposed to be portrayed as a pair of young teens, and yet were written off as being years ahead of their true age. Anywho, they were much more believable as a 13-going-on-30 couple than Maggie/Jackson are supposed to be as a 35-going-on-12 couple.

[OtterMommy]

In the 14.09 ep thread, @skermac wrote:

Quote

I don't understand why anyone wants Jackson and april to get back together, I must be one of the few who don't, maybe I am the only one. He hurt april's feelings and tries to be too controlling with her, he couldn't even understand why she wanted to go help on the battlefield, but as prior military I get her thinking on the subject ad why she did it, I think Jackson cant be trusted and if they got back together he would leave her again when he doesnt get his way.

I was one of those people who went from shipping April and Jackson, to wanting those two to just work it out, to wanting them to get back together once they got their respective shit worked out, to wanting April to get Jackson out of her life and find someone who was better for her.  

I don't think that Jackson was ever controlling with April, but I do think he--at times--wasn't able to see things though her eyes and tended to take things that she did perhaps a bit too personally.  I hesitate to bring up the issue of her going away after their son died, because I really do see both sides on that one.  Instead, I'm thinking of the early days when after their sex-fest at boards and he was all gung-ho on the relationship and she was just terribly confused.  I wouldn't say he steam-rolled her, but I don't remember him actually any effort to try to figure out where she was coming from.

All this might be colored by the fact that, now, I see Jackson as a completely self-centered character who went from being one of my faves to the almost bottom of the heap for me.  I do realize that April is a polarizing character, but I've always liked her.  Despite her neurotic behavior at times, I find her to be one the strongest characters on the show.

[skermac]

On ‎6‎/‎20‎/‎2016 at 5:27 AM, BabyBBQKendall said:

Hasn't Arizona suffered enough?

I really like Arizona nd I would like her to get happiness.

4 minutes ago, OtterMommy said:

In the 14.09 ep thread, @skermac wrote:

I was one of those people who went from shipping April and Jackson, to wanting those two to just work it out, to wanting them to get back together once they got their respective shit worked out, to wanting April to get Jackson out of her life and find someone who was better for her.  

I don't think that Jackson was ever controlling with April, but I do think he--at times--wasn't able to see things though her eyes and tended to take things that she did perhaps a bit too personally.  I hesitate to bring up the issue of her going away after their son died, because I really do see both sides on that one.  Instead, I'm thinking of the early days when after their sex-fest at boards and he was all gung-ho on the relationship and she was just terribly confused.  I wouldn't say he steam-rolled her, but I don't remember him actually any effort to try to figure out where she was coming from.

All this might be colored by the fact that, now, I see Jackson as a completely self-centered character who went from being one of my faves to the almost bottom of the heap for me.  I do realize that April is a polarizing character, but I've always liked her.  Despite her neurotic behavior at times, I find her to be one the strongest characters on the show.

I agree, ive always like April too, and I think she is a strong character. I would like to see her find happiness with a new man, or maybe not a man at all. 

[moonorchid]

Just now, OtterMommy said:

In the 14.09 ep thread, @skermac wrote:

I was one of those people who went from shipping April and Jackson, to wanting those two to just work it out, to wanting them to get back together once they got their respective shit worked out, to wanting April to get Jackson out of her life and find someone who was better for her.  

I don't think that Jackson was ever controlling with April, but I do think he--at times--wasn't able to see things though her eyes and tended to take things that she did perhaps a bit too personally.  I hesitate to bring up the issue of her going away after their son died, because I really do see both sides on that one.  Instead, I'm thinking of the early days when after their sex-fest at boards and he was all gung-ho on the relationship and she was just terribly confused.  I wouldn't say he steam-rolled her, but I don't remember him actually any effort to try to figure out where she was coming from.

All this might be colored by the fact that, now, I see Jackson as a completely self-centered character who went from being one of my faves to the almost bottom of the heap for me.  I do realize that April is a polarizing character, but I've always liked her.  Despite her neurotic behavior at times, I find her to be one the strongest characters on the show.

Going back to the season 9 japril with the very annoying religious freak outs and April’s flip flopping about sleeping with Jackson. I hated it cause april was completely self centered but she was self centered cause she genuinely thought Jackson was just having fun with her, and it was important to her to have it mean something and for her that was sex in marriage. Jackson didn’t deserve a lot of her freak outs but he made zero effort in trying to understand where she was coming from and articulate what he wanted from her. She was insane during that time but Jackson did nothing to help her or himself till he broke up with her without ever articulating his own feelings. 

UNOSEZ said:

“agree that they weren't great together.. Tho u can tell love is there.. But when has he been controlling??.. When after their son died he wanted to grieve with her and she abandoned him and her family to go risk her life a million miles away.. Which left him picking up the pieces and dealing with not only his pain but I would assume his and April's respective families pain.. Not to mention fear of losing his wife in a war zone.. When did he hurt her feelings??.. Before or after she blamed him for "taking her virginity " or maybe when she brow beat him into accepting religion and capitulating that their kids grow up in the church... Or maybe it was before she took offense that Harriet would be on the board of the Avery foundation.. Because apparently money is horrible and makes u grow up bad... It may not seem like it but I like April if in time she and Jackson got back together I'd be ok.. And he does have stuff to work on as well but if were gonna be assigning blame. The lions share of their problems come from her“

jackson and April have a ridiculous amount to still work through if they get back together, but whenever people talk about her leaving, they always never mention April’s own pain. PPD anyone? Jackson was and I think still is in pain and I don’t even think he’s wrong to be angry at april for leaving, but April also lost her baby and felt it differently im sorry. I think she can still be at fault for leaving and it being the catalyst for their divorce and still have empathy for her, it always gets painted with this one dimensional brush. 

[UNOSEZ]

5 minutes ago, moonorchid said:

 

jackson and April have a ridiculous amount to still work through if they get back together, but whenever people talk about her leaving, they always never mention April’s own pain. PPD anyone? Jackson was and I think still is in pain and I don’t even think he’s wrong to be angry at april for leaving, but April also lost her baby and felt it differently im sorry. I think she can still be at fault for leaving and it being the catalyst for their divorce and still have empathy for her, it always gets painted with this one dimensional brush. 

See in so many posts I see ppl laying much of the blame on Jackson so that's why I wrote what I wrote with that slant.. But you are correct she was obviously suffering.. But he did attempt to talk.. She just didn't.. Or couldn't.. And maybe her leaving was the only way for her but it doesn't negate what her leaving.. And moreover staying did to Jackson.. I mean she stayed after he asked her to Come backand the show never really seemed to show her as thinking abt him and what it did to him until she came back... And by then damage done and I think they still attempted to make it work... And just couldn't at the time

[kingshearte]

11 minutes ago, moonorchid said:

jackson and April have a ridiculous amount to still work through if they get back together, but whenever people talk about her leaving, they always never mention April’s own pain. PPD anyone? Jackson was and I think still is in pain and I don’t even think he’s wrong to be angry at april for leaving, but April also lost her baby and felt it differently im sorry. I think she can still be at fault for leaving and it being the catalyst for their divorce and still have empathy for her, it always gets painted with this one dimensional brush. 

For me, it was less about the fact that she left, because that whole situation was a seething mess of shades of grey. What landed me ultimately more on his side than hers after that was the way she refused to acknowledge having done anything that could in any way be construed as wrong or that could have hurt him. She basically treated the whole situation as though she was the only one who had been hurt, and that she was therefore entitled to do whatever she needed to to recover. Which of course, ultimately, she is, but not without consequences. Some acknowledgement from her that he had also suffered a loss, and that her coping mechanism made it harder on him, would have gone a long way for me. (I want to say that did eventually happen, but by the time it did, it was way too late and the damage was done, and I, for one, couldn't quite support them together anymore.)

[Chas411]

I go between who the bigger asshole is with Jackson and April when it comes to their relationship. I went from loving them to absolutely despising them by the time the divorce rolled around. I think their biggest issue has always been their inability to communicate. April when frustrated just shouts over Jackson but Jackson when frustrated just talks down to April without actually making his point of what he wants from her.

I genuinely don't even know if I want them together because obviously she ran off when he needed her most but then after they divorced and had settled into an amicable relationship then he totally fucked with her head on the Montana trip where he slept with her. He also was a general dick to her for a lot of last season so I do think she could do better. I'd rather watch them do another merry go around of season 9 though the watch another scene of Jaggie try to create sexual tension. Polarising as Japril became over time I could at least see what drew them to each other and where the relationship grew from. 

Jackson/Maggie on the other hand looks like fanfiction written by a 15 year old  who could never get the Popular guy in highschool. 

I also resent the way Jacksons been rewritten to meet Maggies romantic interest requirements. It's not even an appealing guy. He comes off as an absolute snake.. And a moody one at that given he's full of skeevy sweetness to Maggie one minute and then an asshole to whoever pisses him off the next. 

Also as someone already said both Maggie/Jackson aren't strong enough characters to carry a Big Ship which I think they want this to be. Jackson isn't the strongest character on his own. You need one of the pairing to be strong and carry the ship - April while polarising was that for Jackson/April whereas Maggie is the definition of a writers pet. She's told she's awesome by other characters, slotted into the centre of everything without any difficulties. In every row or scenario she's always right. Strong characters are made from the choices they make that make an audience often hate them. Maggie May appear in every second scene and get most storylines but she's bland as anything and certainly can't carry this pairing.

Edited January 22, 2018 by Chas411

[moonorchid]

7 minutes ago, UNOSEZ said:

See in so many posts I see ppl laying much of the blame on Jackson so that's why I wrote what I wrote with that slant.. But you are correct she was obviously suffering.. But he did attempt to talk.. She just didn't.. Or couldn't.. And maybe her leaving was the only way for her but it doesn't negate what her leaving.. And moreover staying did to Jackson.. I mean she stayed after he asked her to Come backand the show never really seemed to show her as thinking abt him and what it did to him until she came back... And by then damage done and I think they still attempted to make it work... And just couldn't at the time

Jackson definitely tried to help her, I think it wasn’t so much about helping her so she could help him, he wanted to be there for her and help her to avoid his own pain. 

Statistics are overwhelming when it comes to the rate of divorces after the death of a child. There’s reasons for this and I think greys too a huge cop out in the way they dealt with it. Mind you too, I think their story became a victim of Patrick leaving. Derek dies but they don’t want to spend more than one episode on Meredith’s grief so they shove a year into one episode except everyone else’s stories pretty much stayed at a standstill. The writers also don’t believe in growth and finding the drama in that. Sarah drew says herself that she couldn’t connect with April and not accepting any responsibility and jesse Williams had to kind of talk her through that process during the ep where they have the fortune cookie fight. 

I’ll never downplay April’s faults but she gets the one dimensional brush a lot while every other female character gets the understanding of nuance. That’s really my only rub this topic comes up.

Edited January 22, 2018 by moonorchid

[moonorchid]

11 minutes ago, Chas411 said:

I go between who the bigger asshole is with Jackson and April when it comes to their relationship. I went from loving them to absolutely despising them by the time the divorce rolled around. I think their biggest issue has always been their inability to communicate. April when frustrated just shouts over Jackson but Jackson when frustrated just talks down to April without actually making his point of what he wants from her.

I genuinely don't even know if I want them together because after the Montana trip where he treated her like complete shit I do think she could do better. I'd rather watch them do another merry go around of season 9 though the watch another scene of Jaggie try to create sexual tension. Polarising as Japril became over time I could at least see what drew them to each other and where the relationship grew from. 

Jackson/Maggie on the other hand looks like fanfiction written by a 15 year old  who could never get the Popular guy in highschool. 

I also resent the way Jacksons been rewritten to meet Maggies romantic interest requirements. It's not even an appealing guy. He comes off as an absolute snake.. And a moody one at that given he's full of skeevy sweetness to Maggie one minute and then an asshole to whoever pisses him off the next. 

Also as someone already said both Maggie/Jackson aren't strong enough characters to carry a popular pairing. Jackson isn't the strongest character on his own. You need one of the pairing to be strong and carry the ship - April while polarising was that for Jackson/April whereas Maggie is the definition of a writers pet. She's told she's awesome by other characters, slotted into the centre of everything without any difficulties. In every row or scenario she's always right. Strong characters are made from the choices they make that make an audience often hate them. Maggie May appear in every second scene and get most storylines but she's bland as anything and certainly can't carry this pairing.

This is why I get so defensive about Jackson being painted as the victim between japril. That Montana episode was only saved cause he chilled the eff out. I don’t care that April took that temporary position, jackson would never treat any other doctor as dismissively and as aggressively as he did her and to her credit she wasn’t just going to sit by and take it. People act like april is always tearing him down, well remember when she called him sad? He had just yelled in her face that her religion and belief system is a fantasy and not real. Its not just her all the time. 

Anyway I agree whole heartily about jaggie and I’m so frustrated about what’s happening with Jackson. I had been afraid since the beginning of this that Jackson would be written down to be more compatible with maggie and that is happening and worse, he’s being written to be “saved” by maggie. The fact that they keep harping on their different childhoods (like japril, they keep going over shit japril already did and better) and their white collar/blue collar differences is going to lead somewhere. 

Ive said for a long time, japril works a lot of the time because Sarah drew pulls jesse up to her level and he’s responding well to her. April as a character gets zero breaks fromhenwriters or other characters and that makes you either love her or hate her but she is defined as a character. Maggie is the writers golden child and its coming across that way. Even last season when she was the unknowing middle in that non existent triangle, she was written in a way that was supposed to make you sympathize with her more than people actually did.  

Edited January 22, 2018 by moonorchid

[UNOSEZ]

Well Maggie is written as sympathetic in the Nathan Meredith thing.. Because she is.. She's forged a bond with her sister.. Probably overshares but is shown as super supportive all the Time let's her sis know she's into a dude.. The dude doesnt reciprocate which is fine.. He tries for the older sister.. Now Nathan isn't really at fault there as he didn't know.. But Meredith knew and kept it from Maggie.. Who by now she knows is an emotional bag of marbles ..thats why u had sympathy for Maggie.. Wasbt even really abt Nathan.. Cuz I didn't see the appeal per Se.. But if my older brother sleeps with a girl I like even if it's before I let him know and continues to be in her orbit while I lament about if I should speak up to her or not.. Ima be upset which she rightly was... 

[Guest]

47 minutes ago, Chas411 said:

Jackson/Maggie on the other hand looks like fanfiction written by a 15 year old  who could never get the Popular guy in highschool. 

This is the perfect summary.

[OtterMommy]

41 minutes ago, Chas411 said:

Jackson/Maggie on the other hand looks like fanfiction written by a 15 year old  who could never get the Popular guy in highschool. 

I also resent the way Jacksons been rewritten to meet Maggies romantic interest requirements. It's not even an appealing guy. He comes off as an absolute snake.. And a moody one at that given he's full of skeevy sweetness to Maggie one minute and then an asshole to whoever pisses him off the next. 

Yes, the change in Jackson is really unfortunate.  The weird thing is that, given who Maggie is, they could give her a really great relationship story with the right character.  It's just that Jackson is not that character.  (It would also involve them bringing in a new character, since "the right one" isn't currently on the show...not that I'm against new characters generally, but they haven't been doing such a great job building up new characters for the past several seasons).  

I used to see Jackson as sort of a reflection of Meredith--both were characters who had a legacy and had advantages that others did not while, at the same time, wanted desperately to make their own way in their careers and stand on their own feet.  However, Meredith has sort of found a different path and Jackson seems to have reverted to a spoiled teenager.  While agree that part of this is that they are trying to make him "fit" into a relationship with Maggie (a tried to make a square peg/round hole comment, but it came off far more profane than it should have!), but I think another part is that he's also written to make room for Catherine in the show--and that I resent just as much.  Having an independent guy trying to make his own way can't happen when he works for his mother.

Also, I co-sign your fan fiction comment.  I've seen enough fan service relationships on TV to smell one a mile away and this one stinks like a dead skunk that's been on the side of the road for 3 days.

[Layne]

9 hours ago, Chas411 said:

 obviously she ran off when he needed her most but then after they divorced and had settled into an amicable relationship then he totally fucked with her head on the Montana trip where he slept with her. He also was a general dick to her for a lot of last season so I do think she could do better. 

If she stayed, she would have destroyed him. She asked him to go with her, and he said no, so she went to channel her grief into something meaningful rather than take it out on him. I don't think he realizes how damaging it would have been if she'd stayed. 

The whole Montana thing made no sense. Writers royally effed that up, hard to hold against his character. 

He was a dick to both her and his mother for a lot of last season, taking his own mommy and daddy issues out on April, but he was also very kind, loving and supportive prior to all that civil war stuff. I think Montana was originally meant to bring an end to the mommy/daddy issues and return him to the supportive/kind/loving parent and partner, but then they left the whole thing unresolved. 

They're an interesting pair because it's very easy to ping pong between their differing perspectives, when the writing isn't working against them. They'd be such a force if they could learn to communicate. 

Edited January 23, 2018 by Layne

[flickers]

No one forced April to abandon her marriage, that was her choice. She "asked him to go" while packing to leave him for the second time. Her excuses and gaslighting after the fact were infuriating.

Edited January 23, 2018 by flickers

[Layne]

25 minutes ago, flickers said:

No one forced April to abandon her marriage, that was her choice. She "asked him to go" while packing to leave him for the second time. Her excuses and gaslighting after the fact were infuriating.

Who or what are you responding to? 

[Katsullivan]

I love (most) of this entire discussion and the fact that, at the core, most people don't see it as a black and white issue of who was wrong and who was right between Jackson and April. If anything, the theme here is that the writing let them down.