S07.E09: National Association Of Bubble Soccer, Umano, Brazi Bites, SockTABS

[LAgator77]

Alright, I walked over to Sprouts on my lunch break and got the last bag of Brazi Bites. They were cleared out, huge hole in the frozen section where they used to be. They were on sale for $5 down from $6. Took them back to work and popped 6 in the toaster oven. Cooked them for 5 minutes longer than the suggested 20, but I didn't preheat the toaster oven either. They came out perfect. I ate 3 and shared the other 3 with my co-workers. They were pretty good. I wouldn't call them amazing or anything. I think the ones from the Brazilian steak house were better. They would be fun for like apps at a super bowl party or something. I'd give them a solid B+

[Merneith]

I'm probably in Umano's demographic. I'm a millennial, and I will pay $50 for a tshirt, and a company's ethics and behaviour are a factor when I buy things. But even before Kevin said anything, my first instinct was "Wait, so they're using child labor for the art? In return for a branded backpack and some pencils?" Sure, kids will do art for free on their own. I also doodle in my notebooks for free, but if my boss said "You have to hand those doodles over to a tshirt company" and then that tshirt company built an entire business around my free doodles and gave my office a few Sharpies in return, that would be messed up. The kids may not care -- they may even get a kick out of it -- but the fact is these guys are saving a bunch of money by not paying professional artists and yet are trying to market that as charity. 

 

Yeah. I think the copyright /image rights ownership of those drawings is a lot more complicated than those guys are suggesting. Unless it's a work for hire, the ownership of the image remains with the artist. It doesn't matter how old the artist is. It doesn't matter if Umano got the pictures from the school in exchange for a promise of a backpack of school supplies to the school.

 

In order to be a work for hire, Umano would need a contract with the artist directly, to say, "I will pay you to draw me something I can put on a tshirt and sell." Because the artist is a child, the contract would need to be authorized by the parents. Payment would need to be to the artist, not to the artist's school or random underprivileged children. Because the artist is a child, there are strict laws about how a child's money should be handled.

 

Furthermore, the children's image on the tag - that image is also copyrighted either to the child or the photographer. If Umano might be able to claim that they paid the photographer to create a work for hire, and therefore don't need to pay the child in the work, but since the work is then being used commercially, they're still leaving themselves open to a lawsuit from the children or their guardians if they don't have strict permission.

 

And they may have strict permissions and contracts, and just skipped talking about it because no one wants to watch a show about people discussing copyright law - which is valid. But if they don't have actual contracts for using the childrens' images and drawings, they could be in for a nasty surprise.

Edited November 23, 2015 by Merneith

[Tara Ariano]

In case you missed it, here's the Previously.TV post on the episode!

 

Shark Tank's Daymond John Is A Sucker For Socks
Was a Shark unduly swayed by a sob story into backing a business that he really should have stayed out of? Probably. Or maybe Daymond John is just really into socks.

[leighdear]

Because the artist is a child, there are strict laws about how a child's money should be handled.

As the "artists" being featured are not American children, their rights don't fall under American law, and thus do not get the protections that American children and their parents have.  International laws are very different.  I would imagine these guys have consulted attorneys versed in International law and know what rights the kids and parents have.  No way they would risk the future of their entire company for a random drawing of an elephant.

Edited November 23, 2015 by leighdear

[hkit]

Had to really digest this episode over the weekend before I shared thoughts. I still am unsure of how I feel about the t shirts. Full disclosure: I am not a millennial. I do not shop for a cause. I shop for goods I want, and support the causes I want. If I want a t-shirt, and I want to support children in need, I do not see those as mutually exclusive activities. For my $50, I can easily buy a shirt (that is much more to my personal taste than their designs) and STILL donate more than $4 to charities that really need it. The idea that I am helping a cause by paying a huge premium on goods is insane to me.

 

In other words, I am absolutely not their target market.

 

So I say this with a grain of salt - but the entire concept seems extremely exploitative to me. 

[Merneith]

As the "artists" being featured are not American children, their rights don't fall under American law, and thus do not get the protections that American children and their parents have.  International laws are very different.  I would imagine these guys have consulted attorneys versed in International law and know what rights the kids and parents have.  No way they would risk the future of their entire company for a random drawing of an elephant.

 

According to Umano's website, they collect the drawings while on a "Giving Trip", where they visit a partner school and hand out backpacks. Here, let me quote it, from here:

http://umano.com/pages/faq

 

 

 

how do you choose the Artwork?

that’s the fun part! it all starts with our “virtuous cycle.” when we go on a Giving Trip to give backpacks full of school supplies at a partner school and we collect drawings. we come back to umano hq in athens, ga and we start sorting through all the awesome drawings. we have one rule for working with kids art: to preserve the integrity of the drawing. we design the Artwork to showcase its raw confidence.

 

where does umano give?

we give in the united states, including right in our own backyard in athens, ga, as well as harlem, ny, and inner city los angeles. we also give internationally in places like haiti, peru, and mexico. see exactly where we give here.

 

So at least some of the children whose art is being used are US citizens. As for the rest ...

 

International copyright law is set out in the Berne Convention for the Protection of Literary and Artistic Works. This is a treaty which lays out the principals of copyright laws and obligates the signatories to respect the common elements of copyright law. This has been the basis of international copyright law since 1886. Mexico, Peru, Haiti and the US are all signatories. Signatories agree to respect the law for artistic work in each others' territories.

 

US companies are obligated to follow the common framework set out in the Berne convention. Not to mention, swiping school art from foreign kids and making millions on it is just about the shittiest thing ever, even for some half-assed "giving back" scheme.

 

As for the guys being smart enough to have all this legal stuff worked out - maybe. And like I said, maybe they talked all this out and cut it from the tv show because it put everyone to sleep. OTOH, frankly, Umano's FAQ makes them sound like a couple of scam artists. Here's their answer on compensations:

 

 

 

are kids compensated for their drawings?

the umano Giving Promise states: with every product purchased, umano will give a backpack full of school supplies to empower a kid. our mission to empower kids to unleash their creativity is at the core of umano, in our dna. we believe what makes our concept so powerful is that kids are helping kids, one kid’s drawings can help empower an entire school. kids’ art for the greater good!

 

It's for the kids! We're taking their drawings and giving them a shitty backpack because it empowers kids! Think of the kids ... (but not the kids whose artwork we're profiting from. Don't think about those kids. Think of the empowered kids! We just love kids!).

 

I was hoping one of the Sharks would bust them about the kids who making pennies sewing those cheapass backpacks. Who's empowering those sweatshop kids?

 

"Virtuous Cycle" my ass.

Edited November 23, 2015 by Merneith

[leighdear]

Not a funny subject, but this made me laugh.  

 

It's for the kids! We're taking their drawings and giving them a shitty backpack because it empowers kids! Think of the kids ... (but not the kids whose artwork we're profiting from. Don't think about those kids. Think of the empowered kids! We just love kids!).

I agree the legal stuff would have been cut for non-interest to the viewing audience.  And I totally missed the part about US kids being included.

I know virtually nothing about International protection for art & literature, so it's great to know the kids outside the US can be protected to an extent. 

[sadiegirl]

Even if I was thinking about buying from Umano (and I was not!), I would not buy after seeing those answers.  Use capital letters, for god's sake!  You are not cool by going all e.e. cummings on us.  Really.

[pbutler111]

So, did Laurie finally drop the "Bagel Stuffins'" name? I didn't hear her say it when talking about Bantam Bagels.

I absolutely loathed that name when she suggested it. And she was so pleased with herself for coming up with it, and so adamant that the entire business would tank overnight if they didn't immediately change to that idiotic name. I did order some Bantam Bagels, and I probably won't be ordering again, but it has nothing at all to do with the name.

I feel those sock tabs are a completely unnecessary product. Not only are there other options out there for much less (because they were selling to wholesale for $5, so...), but I just can't imagine wearing what looks like an office supply product on my socks at all times. That just seems ridiculous. Robert said you can't feel it, but I'm not sure I believe him. Can't believe they got a deal.

I agree. And they looked uncomfortable as hell. The woman was a pain in the ass. I can't stand it when people come in with sob stories, especially those accompanied by actual sobs. Unless it's directly relevant to the deal at hand, I don't want to know about your disease, disability, dead dog or dead dad.

[hkit]

I can't stand it when people come in with sob stories, especially those accompanied by actual sobs. Unless it's directly relevant to the deal at hand, I don't want to know about your disease, disability, dead dog or dead dad.

 

Where's Barbara when you need her? More than any other shark, she seems pretty intolerant of such nonsense. They have no place in business discussions.

[A Boston Gal]

Brazi Bites: If they're anything like the cheese balls I get for appetizers at the Brazilian steakhouse I might become addicted. This is an all-you-can-eat place where they come around and shave the meat onto your plate and it's all I can do to not fill up on the cheese balls.

OMG, those things are divine...I can hardly get to the mashed potatoes, polenta, and other carby goodness at the Brazilian steakhouse because the cheesy bread balls are so friggin' fabulous.

 

And tapioca flour? Is that what makes them so chewy-delicious?

[Auntie Anxiety]

 

And tapioca flour? Is that what makes them so chewy-delicious?

I'm a little embarrassed to report that I bought some tapioca flour today because everyone is raving about how delicious those cheesy bread balls are and the recipe looked easy enough for me to try.  If I get a chance to make them in the next couple of days, I'll let you all know.

 

In the meantime, can you imagine working for/with that soccer ball guy?  Aside from looking like a psychopathic serial killer, he was such a tool.

[NikSac]

I did order some Bantam Bagels, and I probably won't be ordering again, but it has nothing at all to do with the name.

 

This begs the question, why wouldn't you order again?  Just curious.

[pbutler111]

This begs the question, why wouldn't you order again?  Just curious.

 

They're really good, and I think if I lived near their store, I'd probably go there all the time (especially because their best flavors aren't available through mail order).  But when you get them frozen, it's just kind of a pain in the butt to prepare them.  You want them to be an impulse kind of item, but, if you want one, you have to microwave for 20 seconds, then put in a preheated 400 degree oven for 6 minutes.  I mean, just sitting there waiting to preheat an entire oven to 400 degrees so you can cook a bagel bite for 6 minutes is kind of ridiculous. Easier for me to keep actual bagels in the freezer, thaw in the microwave for 30 seconds, and spread on the cream cheese.  Not worth the money (shipping frozen isn't cheap) and hassle.

OMG, those things are divine...I can hardly get to the mashed potatoes, polenta, and other carby goodness at the Brazilian steakhouse because the cheesy bread balls are so friggin' fabulous.

 

And tapioca flour? Is that what makes them so chewy-delicious?

 You might want to give this a try sometime.  Someone posted it on Facebook last week and I just made it last night. Insanely delicious.

 

https://www.facebook.com/tiphero/videos/10154347801373761/

[break21]

Late to the game - just thoughts:

 

1.  Mr. W. is basically the moderator at this point  I'm ok with that.  He keeps it moving.  If he wasn't there, I think they'd all be arguing endlessly and I like his snark.

 

2. Sock thingy was ridiculous and I don't like sob-stories.  Love Damon, but he's fell for this before.  Honestly, you start crying, I start walking. 

 

3.  LG needs to take episodes off.  She throws off the entire Tank because everybody wants easy QVC money.    I don't like when legit businesses choose her over a better Shark for the long-term.

[KGirls]

Am i the only one who thought of Maddox when I saw the t-shirts?  I'm probably showing my age here, but about 15-20 years ago there was a guy on a website? blog? something like that, who graded drawings by kids.  It's completely mean-spirited and terrible and I would never ever ever actually make fun of a child's drawing in reality.  But he was basically approaching it with the premise that he's not allowing for the fact that a child drew the picture and objectively it's just not very good.  Although he was less kind in his word choice.  I kind of felt the same about the t-shirts.  I love the idea and the thought of a kid drawing a picture for the shirts gives me the feels.  But objectively am I going to pay $48 for a t-shirt with a fairly bad drawing on it when only $4 or $6 or whatever is going to a backpack for a school?  Not so much.  For anyone who's interested, this is the guy's site: Maddox  NSFW language and as I said, it's pretty mean.  So if you're going to get all in an uproar about how could he possibly be so terrible to children?  His brand of humor is not for you.

[leighdear]

 You might want to give this a try sometime.  Someone posted it on Facebook last week and I just made it last night. Insanely delicious.

 

https://www.facebook.com/tiphero/videos/10154347801373761/

Thanks!  I just spent an hour combing through the other recipes there!  ;-)

[dimo]

RE: Sock Tabs:

I find it very strange that a DOCTOR (of 19 years) and a PHARMACEUTICAL REP (his wife) have to come asking for 50K. Sounds like they need a crash course in money management. With the money they must be making, 50K should be a drop in the bucket to them, just take it out of your savings account. Me smells something weally wong here.

[designing1]

I don't smell anything wrong -- just two folks out for publicity (and possibly the consumer market acumen a Shark can contribute) more than cash.

[Shibori]

I don't think the tshirt guys need to get a charitable deduction from donating the backpacks, because the cost of the backpacks, (especially given their model), should be deductible as a business expense.

I have some tapioca flour and the recipes look simple, so if I remember this after the holiday, I'm going to bake some.

[EtheltoTillie]

Despite her claim, I've yet to see a Bantam Bagel in a Starbucks.

 

And yes, according to their website, they have scrapped the name.  It's funny, around the time she was so gungho about the name change, she put it out on Twitter and didn't get the response she expected.

Despite her claim, I've yet to see a Bantam Bagel in a Starbucks.

 

And yes, according to their website, they have scrapped the name.  It's funny, around the time she was so gungho about the name change, she put it out on Twitter and didn't get the response she expected.

We have here in NYC. Tried them a couple of weeks ago. A little too expensive, but not bad.

[LittleIggy]

On the Charlottesville, VA NBC local news, they showed people playing in those inflatable balls. The balls were branded Knockerballs, and they talked about their being "packages" for parties, etc. Wonder if it is a franchise of that what that dope was pitching.

[Jamoche]

empower a kid

Every time I've worked at a place where people used the word "empower", they *always* meant "You have absolutely no power at all, but hey! We know buzzwords that make you think you do!" It's a big "do not trust this person" flag to me.

[LeGrandElephant]

I didn't understand how the t-shirt thing is a good cause. They are using the kids artwork AND their likeness (on the label) to make tons of money, and in return they give the kid a backpack of school supplies? It sounded like they are targeting poor areas where maybe parents can't afford basic school supplies. So that seems to me like they are exploiting poor kids, not like a "good cause". Did I miss some other type of charity they are doing besides just giving the kids a backpack with some notebooks in it? Also, did they really say the backpacks only cost them $4? Because that sounds really cheap for a backpack and probably will fall apart before the school year is over.

I don't think "child labor" is the right phrase, but it still seems like they're totally ripping off the kids. If the kids art is good enough that people will pay that much to have it on a mass produced shirt in a fancy store, then the kids should get more out of that deal.

I take a lot of photos and put them online where people can see them for free. I'm going to be taking photos for fun whether someone pays me or not, so I don't really think of it as labor. But if someone wanted to take one of my photos and put it on shirt and actually make a lot of money off of it, I better be getting some kind of royalty or percentage of that, or a much higher one-time payment than a cheapo backpack! I might agree to let someone use my artwork for free if it were to benefit an actual non-profit, but they were clear that they are a for profit company. And I'm an adult who can make those decisions for myself, not a kid being pressured to do something in a school environment. I do really wonder if they have contracts with the kids and their parents, and how this works with the school pitching it to the parents or what. It all seems really sketchy and not very above board.

Also the kids drawings were all in a very similar style. So they either sat there telling the kids how to draw or modified the drawings to match that "look".

Hasn't Daymond done that last minute running after someone a couple times now? But I think the other times were people who desperately needed a deal to support their families. I didn't really get it here - both of them have great jobs, and the sock thing is silly and unnecessary.

Edited December 5, 2015 by LeGrandElephant

[Kel Varnsen]

It was interesting that the soccer guy was saying that recently the number of google searches for that game have shot up. I am not sure if the timing works out but a couple of seasons ago that game was an Amazing Race challenge. I wonder if the increase in google searches has anything to do with that.

 

Also the sock people, asking for money doing the Dr. Evil thing. What the hell was that? Was it because neither one of them could do a Borat impression?