S07.E07: Mommie Dearest

[formerlyfreedom]

In order to get through to Lily about Julian's manipulating ways, Stefan and Damon confront their mother with painful memories from their childhood. However, when Lily reveals a dark secret she's been harboring for over 160 years, Stefan and Damon are left questioning everything they've ever known about their family. Determined to prove himself to Lily, Enzo comes face-to-face with Julian and challenges him to a duel, but an unexpected twist threatens to complicate things. Elsewhere, Matt finds himself in the middle of a deepening mystery involving the residents of Mystic Falls, and Caroline's world is turned upside down when Valerie reveals some life-changing news to her.

 

 

[raytch]

Valerie already broke the life changing news to Caroline!

Matt already started diving into the mystery of the residents of Mystic Falls... Which by the way I'm looking forward to because it's one of the creepiest things I've seen on this show.

Mystic Falls High is almost as creepy as Sunny Dale High and it's not even on a hellmouth!

I wonder what childhood memories the Salvatore brothers will be digging into to change Lily's mind about Julian. This doesn't exactly make sense since they hardly know him... But hey human Salvatores flashbacks are always welcome!

I really enjoyed the family drama last week with Stefan and Damon sitting in the chair like children about to be punished and Lily acting like such a housewife.

I wonder what the secret is.

Weirdly enough I'm kind of on board with this season (minus the Caroline character assassination arc).

Enzo stars in a duel! Michael Malarkey oughta hang this synopsis on his bedroom wall or something.

Edited November 15, 2015 by raytch

[ByTor]

Let me guess, Julian is their biological father.

[miss-vanilla]

Let me guess, Julian is their biological father.

 

Exactly what I thought until Julian made the point of telling us that he is 475 yrs old or something in the last ep. 

[prospazzinator]

Sneak peek featuring Bonnie and Enzo:

 

Edited November 18, 2015 by prospazzinator

[prospazzinator]

Sneak peek #2:

 

Producers preview: 

 

 

[prospazzinator]

Gah, I'm finding the Enzo/Bonnie thing to be so forced and out of nowhere. If something happens to Matt because she's acting all pathetic around Enzo, I will be so annoyed. 

 

Anyway.

 

Valerie can stay. I really liked that moment between her and Caroline when she revealed what happened to her baby. I'm glad that she didn't do it out of some spiteful impulse to cause trouble between Stefan and Caroline. Still can't stand Lily, but I'm hoping she sticks around long enough to offer Valerie one heck of an apology for not being willing to hear her out. 

 

I was mostly bored by the Salvatore family drama. Of course they're going to redeem Lily. Boring. And another party? My goodness! Do these people never learn?!

[slayer2]

Gah, I'm finding the Enzo/Bonnie thing to be so forced and out of nowhere. If something happens to Matt because she's acting all pathetic around Enzo, I will be so annoyed.

Anyway.

Valerie can stay. I really liked that moment between her and Caroline when she revealed what happened to her baby. I'm glad that she didn't do it out of some spiteful impulse to cause trouble between Stefan and Caroline. Still can't stand Lily, but I'm hoping she sticks around long enough to offer Valerie one heck of an apology for not being willing to hear her out.

I was mostly bored by the Salvatore family drama. Of course they're going to redeem Lily. Boring. And another party? My goodness! Do these people never learn?!

Especially since Bonnie would NEVER sell out Matt (a human and friend) for some vampire. Nope.

[Bort]

Dammit, it happened against my will but I'm really liking Valerie.

I wonder who's been compelling the human turkey farm?

[prospazzinator]

Also, what's up with Bonnie just letting Enzo have important things? Here, Enzo, you keep the Phoenix stone. Oh hey, Enzo, tiny sword is all yours, buddy.

[2Old2BAFangirl]

Ugh, family issues made me miss big pieces of this episode!!

I did see the Giuseppe burning Damon with his cigar though. Lily is beyond redeemable to me. Letting that happen and doing nothing but saving to run away years later doesn't work for me. Personal experience may be coloring my opinion of a fictional TV character but like I told my husband " the man has to sleep sometime!". So bull on the I couldn't stop him excuse.

Anyway, I need to watch the whole episode before I say more.

[PinkRibbons]

 Personal experience may be coloring my opinion of a fictional TV character but like I told my husband " the man has to sleep sometime!".

 

I was screaming, "YOU COOK HIS FOOD, FOR SHIT'S SAKE. POISON WOMAN, IT'S NOT THAT DIFFICULT!" For me the part that's really despicable in the end is that when she came back to check on the boys right after turning after faking her death, she didn't kill Giuseppe. Damon was old enough to inherit, marry soon enough and take care of Stefan in the meantime. She just left them with him when she could have done something about it.

 

Speaking of ages, WE HAVE A DEFINITE DAMON AGE. I HAVE BEEN WAITING FOR THIS THE ENTIRE SERIES RUN. If he was 12 on Thanksgiving in 1851 (assuming he was not like me, born late in the year), that puts his birth in 1839. Which makes him 25 the year he and Stefan were turned. Therefore the brothers have a definite age difference of 8 years, meaning that Stefan in this episode was 4 in this episode and we're supposed to buy that Ian Somerholder was playing 18 in the episode depicting his mother's "funeral".

[Couver]

Bonnie! Why are you walking around a junkyard with freaking Enzo when sweet sweet Matt needs your help? It's looking more and more like Matt is the loss that sends Bonnie to that institution. They better have a way to bring him back. Ugh I would trade every Bozo scene to just see Bonnie and Matt solving this mystery together.

 

Did Beau showing up at the Grill basically confirm the heretics know what is going on? If not why was he there? And why did he attack everyone for freeing those people?

 

I echo those not feeling sympathy for Lily. I can buy her motives in the past. My issue is her behavior when they brought her back. She was all about the heretics and was very vocal about feeling nothing for Damon or Stefan anymore. This is why TVD frustratres me. They introduce villains or gray characters and then try and rework their backstories expecting us to forget all the gross behavior they had before? Even if this episode explains human Lily's actions it doesn't explain vampire Lily's. Like how she spitefully told Kai about the sleeping beauty spell to get back at Damon.Or having Caroline imprisoned and tortured.

 

So this hunter is tied to the sword & stone. It clearly seemed like a woman in the illustration in that book. I'm glad she isn't going to be one of the 5. I was having trouble buying a regular hunter doing all the things she's doing in the future when the hunters we have seen so far have been total jokes. But I really want them to get to the 3 year jump now. The little glimpses we have been getting are good but I want the whole thing.

[GaT]

I seriously hate this storyline. I ff'd through all the past scenes & barely listened to the rest. I DGAF about Caroline's stupid pregnancy, the heretics, or the Salvatore family issues, past or present. If they don't get this show back on track soon, I'm gone.

[poppy-]

Questions from this episode:

Silent Beau's  hand gestures: is that really how he mimes "here is a headache for you, vampire!!"   Worst witch acting ever. 

How could anyone think that the clever, strong, powerful, gorgeous Bonnie is not a catch that men fight over?

How did flashback Damon think having a pet turkey in November was a good idea?  I mean 'cmon.

What are the odds the household servants in 1851 Virginia are chubby white ladies?

Why would Caroline think it's  a great idea to pee on a stick with Ric right there, and then with the ultrasound?

Are we supposed to like Lily MORE now that we think she stole money to get away from Giuseppe? I was fine with the idea of the damaged / brainwashed wife of abusive husband who found herself, post-death. But no, she used that regal demeanor back in the day to side with the bad father and let her kids think they were shielding her.  Dang.

[ElectricBoogaloo]

Ugh, another villain being redeemed? Stop it, show. Look, on the one hand, I do understand that things were different back in the 1850s. What Lily said about having no access to money was not unusual then (and there are still husbands who control all the money these days), so I get why she stole it but letting Damon take the blame was just shitty.

 

And if she was SO concerned with protecting her sons, why did she stay five more years and then decide to abandon them? I know murder is a terrible thing, but as previous posters pointed out, she could have killed Giuseppe and freed them all from him. Even if human Lily didn't have the stomach for it, vampire Lily definitely could have done it. Apparently she was okay with murdering humans who were strangers but not her abusive asshole of a husband who her sons were stuck with?
 
Damon knew that Enzo had a special Mr. Pointy but then he just let Julian walk off with it, which seemed like a really dumb decision.
 
Poor Matt. He is trying to take care of this weird situation and he can't even get Bonnie to call him back. This isn't like when your annoying cousin calls and you're at work so you roll your eyes and think, "Eh, I'll call him back when I'm driving home so I can kill two birds with one stone." You know weird shit it always happening and that Matt is trying to protect what's left of Mystic Falls but you can't even send him a quick text to see what's going on? It's not like it's 1990 and he beeped you so you have to wait until you find a pay phone so you can call him back. You have technology. Use it!
 

Speaking of ages, WE HAVE A DEFINITE DAMON AGE. I HAVE BEEN WAITING FOR THIS THE ENTIRE SERIES RUN. If he was 12 on Thanksgiving in 1851 (assuming he was not like me, born late in the year), that puts his birth in 1839. Which makes him 25 the year he and Stefan were turned. Therefore the brothers have a definite age difference of 8 years, meaning that Stefan in this episode was 4 in this episode and we're supposed to buy that Ian Somerholder was playing 18 in the episode depicting his mother's "funeral".

I was seriously SO EXCITED when they initially gave the date of the flashback because I was like ooh, a specific year! But then I was disappointed because we couldn't tell how old Stefan and Damon were. So I was super excited when Damon later mentioned he was 12 and they continued the flashback. I kid you not - I wrote down the date and his age on a piece of paper so that I could figure out the age difference between him and Stefan after the episode ended. I can't believe we had to wait SEVEN SEASONS to get this information. This was the best thing about this entire episode. A close second: Damon stabbing Julian while believing it would also kill Lily. That is the Damon I like - if he can't make her miserable via his original plan of letting her be happy with Julian for a few months and then devastating her with his death, he's willing to let her die as collateral damage. Two birds, one stone!
 
On a shallow note, they did a pretty good job casting a kid who looked reasonably like Ian Somerhalder. But what I really noticed in the flashback scene was how terrible the acting was from Giuseppe and Damon (although I give young Damon a pass since he's just a kid). And how none of them used contractions.
 

Silent Beau's  hand gestures: is that really how he mimes "here is a headache for you, vampire!!"   Worst witch acting ever.

I admit that I am pretty spoiled after a season of watching Vincent as Finn come up with all kinds of elegant hand gestures while doing magic. You'd think that since Beau doesn't get any actual lines, he'd have all these cool witchy gestures. Maybe he should take some lessons from Elijah in how to gesticulate.

 

When Damon said that Stefan will keep looking for the tiniest scrap of good in Lily and that she would always disappoint him, it reminded me of Mickey on Ray Donovan.

Edited November 20, 2015 by ElectricBoogaloo

[Primetimer]

Caroline is better at denial than a teenager with strict parents.

Read the story

[slayer2]

Let me guess, Julian is their biological father.

Does that mean he killed his grandchild? This show is the worst.

[Couver]

Questions from this episode:

Silent Beau's  hand gestures: is that really how he mimes "here is a headache for you, vampire!!"   Worst witch acting ever. 

How could anyone think that the clever, strong, powerful, gorgeous Bonnie is not a catch that men fight over?

How did flashback Damon think having a pet turkey in November was a good idea?  I mean 'cmon.

What are the odds the household servants in 1851 Virginia are chubby white ladies?

Why would Caroline think it's  a great idea to pee on a stick with Ric right there, and then with the ultrasound?

Are we supposed to like Lily MORE now that we think she stole money to get away from Giuseppe? I was fine with the idea of the damaged / brainwashed wife of abusive husband who found herself, post-death. But no, she used that regal demeanor back in the day to side with the bad father and let her kids think they were shielding her.  Dang.

 

LOL! 

 

You bring up another question I had. Can Beau only do the headache spell? That seems to be the only witch spell we have seen that does not require chanting or saying at least one word. Even starting a fire and things like that takes a word. 

[prospazzinator]

I still don't get what the deal with the sword and the stone are. Bonnie was all "oh no" and that was that. Gotta meet Enzo for drinks. And of course they just let Julian keep the sword.

[roses]

I don't think Bonnie was meeting Enzo , they just happen to be there around the same time, I do find it puzzling that they let Julian have the sword so easily, you think that there would be a quick call or text to bring the sword back.

Edited November 20, 2015 by roses

[chrisvee]

Why is the gang not holding on to these important artifacts -- stone, tiny sword -- instead of letting the villains run off with them???

[raytch]

How did flashback Damon think having a pet turkey in November was a good idea? I mean 'cmon.

I like to think of it as Damon being behind the punk movement!

Is anyone else thinking that the huntress is Valerie and Stefan's child??

I don't know how she would be tied to the Phoenix stone and the sword but when Valerie said she tried to cast that spell and failed I thought this has to be important because when someone on this show says something it's always the opposite. Like Valerie saying her pregnancy is a dark secret to be kept forever and here we are a few episodes later and everyone knows about it.

I did like that Caroline didn't lose her shit over that news. I think I ship her and Valerie more than Steroline or Valerie /Stefan.

[gryphon]

I hated all those flashbacks.  I guess they were necessary, but enough already. 

 

I liked Caroline a lot this episode.  

[Cattitude]

First Damon...freakin' Damon would never ever have a pet much less a turkey. Come on now he was a 12 y/o affulent boy. Bleeding heart Stefan would have a turkey, a chicken, a horse and a whole barn of kittens. Damon no way!

 

And I am so bummed I love James Remar and he could have pulled off younger Giuseppe. Seemed a little fishy they went less attactive to make him more evil.boo!

 

Why does Lily not come across to the writers as bad or worse than Giuseppe?...it  boggles my mind! At least Giuseppe is outright evil. Lily hides behind wounded manipulations. Most traditional abused wives would take MORE blame and beatings to protect their children. Lily allows her children to endure abuse doesn't even have the decency to fess up to the child(notice how she fessed up to Stefan who she knew she could manipulate and NOT Damon who needed her confession). I'm sorry but how were three train tickets their savior. If she couldn't support them then how would getting way with no money work out? Her whole guise was she was powerless. Well when she was a vampire she was powerful and couldn't control herself(except she could but only around powerless witches???) and she hated Guiseppe she couldn't bother to at least kill him even if she wasn't going to take her kids. No she leaves that guilt for Stefan. I hate her so much!

I seriously was about to lose my mind until at least Damon was allowed to vent his side and Stefan didn't judge or shame him....at least I had that.

So um.. Lily now knows Julian is evil why not just do her deed and kill him....no she must rope the boys in with her...she won't be redeemed for me no way<side eyes show>

Edited November 21, 2015 by Cattitude

[slayer2]

Wow....

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oKhs1d2HqsE

 

I wonder what this looks like?

 

 

Hmmmm,

 

 

This show is boosting so hard, I swear. Trying to prevent the Bamon (Chlark) by distracting with the Bonenzo (Chlollie). Only this is no Chlollie and Enzo is no Oliver Queen. Gah!

Edited November 21, 2015 by slayer2

[immortalfrieza]

The Salvatore brothers should have ripped Lily's heart out the second they learned that Lily and Julian's life were tied together. They kill her, they kill Julian, and we wouldn't have to suffer through another one of those "villains we could easily kill or get rid of permanently but we don't for a ridiculously long length of time because of stupid reasons" seasons. Especially considering all they would have to do to be able to avoid killing Lily while killing Julian is bring Valerie in to siphon out the life connection magic, but I doubt the characters are going to be smart enough to actually do that and even if they do it'll take the entire season before they figure that out.

 

Of course this also coincides having to deal with another "redeem the villain" arc with Lily, which is always done on the most bland and irredeemable villains ever. The more I see about Lily's past the more of an obviously evil bitch she becomes. As people have mentioned Lily had many opportunities to end Giuseppe both before and after she was a vampire, yet instead she sat back and did nothing and actually even contributed to the abuse of her sons until she got sick and turned into a vampire, which she then outright abandoned them to go form a fake family of psychopathic nutjobs she's obsessively attached to for no apparent reason. I'm glad Damon pointed out that the excuses for what she did in no way make up for any of that.

 

Probably out of all the heretics plus Julian and Lily Valerie is the only one I see that isn't completely psychotic, thus the only one even remotely interesting and that I could buy actually being redeemed, which probably means she's going to end up dying instead of Lily possibly in place of her because an interesting character cannot exist on this show.

Edited November 21, 2015 by immortalfrieza

[rue721]

I don't think Lily is irredeemable. Useless and untrustworthy, yes. But imo she's just an enabler and fucked up -- I don't think she's evil.

 

 

Ugh, another villain being redeemed? Stop it, show. Look, on the one hand, I do understand that things were different back in the 1850s. What Lily said about having no access to money was not unusual then (and there are still husbands who control all the money these days), so I get why she stole it but letting Damon take the blame was just shitty.

 

And if she was SO concerned with protecting her sons, why did she stay five more years and then decide to abandon them? I know murder is a terrible thing, but as previous posters pointed out, she could have killed Giuseppe and freed them all from him. Even if human Lily didn't have the stomach for it, vampire Lily definitely could have done it. Apparently she was okay with murdering humans who were strangers but not her abusive asshole of a husband who her sons were stuck with?
 

[...] On a shallow note, they did a pretty good job casting a kid who looked reasonably like Ian Somerhalder. But what I really noticed in the flashback scene was how terrible the acting was from Giuseppe and Damon (although I give young Damon a pass since he's just a kid). And how none of them used contractions.

 

Ugh, I noticed the lack of contractions, too. There was a lot that was weird and stupid about those flashbacks, Ibr.

 

But anyway, I think Lily let Damon take the blame for the money because she didn't want Giuseppe to get suspicious that she was hoarding/stealing money for an escape fund. She probably figured that if Giuseppe thought Damon took the money, he'd go through Damon's things looking for it or for whatever Damon had bought with it -- and he wouldn't find anything. But if he knew Lily took the money, he'd go through her things and find the train tickets, and her plan to leave would be ruined.

 

I think that when Lily "died," she realized she finally had a way to escape Giuseppe. He wasn't going to hunt her down if he thought that she was dead. He was also a proto-vampire hunter, so I think that it was actually pretty reasonable for her to still be afraid of him after she'd turned. Plus, on these shows, they always say that becoming a vampire intensifies your emotions and personality -- so if Lily was terrified and helpless toward Giuseppe when she was human, maybe she became even more terrified and helpless after she turned. That kind of reminds me of how the Mikaelsons were even more afraid of Mikael after they turned, even though they're basically indestructible and there are a bunch of them and only one of him. Anyway, "death" was probably the best opportunity to leave him that she was ever going to have, so she took it, and tried to never look back.

 

I would guess that she was also afraid that if she did try to go back, Giuseppe would either kill her or trap her, and nobody -- including her kids -- would be better off. She sacrificed her kids to ensure her own safety and freedom, and it seems like she's spent the last 150+ years overcompensating for any guilt/grief she might have felt over that by claiming that she didn't care about or love or miss them at all (or that they're even her sons!).

[DigitalCount]

Plus, on these shows, they always say that becoming a vampire intensifies your emotions and personality -- so if Lily was terrified and helpless toward Giuseppe when she was human, maybe she became even more terrified and helpless after she turned. That kind of reminds me of how the Mikaelsons were even more afraid of Mikael after they turned, even though they're basically indestructible and there are a bunch of them and only one of him.

This is an astoundingly good point. Heck, it probably explains why she picked Julian to begin with. Her patterns would only become more strongly ingrained as a vampire.

 

Speaking of Lily, she was surprisingly hilarious in this episode with her sarcastic quips. I'm not sure how I feel about her constant stone-face though.

[miss-vanilla]

This was not a good episode, in fact I think it was the weakest so far this season, and that is such a shame, because the premise should have made it an instant hit, but unfortunately, the writing and execution  just failed.

The Salvatore history is a goldmine, so why didn't this little history lesson work?

The turkey story was just lame, even though I got the sentiment, but it just didn't resonate, and actually came off a bit comedic. I mean who names a turkey Sammy?

This flashback felt more like the writers moving the players around to get Lily to the point where she would in fact bow to Stefans demands, set out at the beginning of the story. The emotional aspects of the flashbacks depicted an abused Damon, whose motivations for taking that abuse was to prevent his father abusing Stefan, but all those moments are never remarked upon or examined again, which I think is a missed opportunity in the context of a supposedly Defan season.

To clarify, the payoff wasn't a Defan one, it was a Lily is about to be redeemed one, and that is just meh! I don't care about her.

The whole thing was  saved by Damons emotional rant at Stefan, which was the only believable reaction from any of them tbh, and Ian played that scene perfectly. Lily is such a cold fish, and it's unbearable to watch.

 

 

Again, the Caroline pregnancy thing was just weird. We had a whole episode of going around the houses only for the big reveal at the end to be exactly what we were told at the end of the last episode- Yep Caroline is preggers, shocker!!

[missbonnie]

I would pay good money to never see a damn shot of Princess Perfect Elena in the casket or otherwise ever again.

[Couver]

Is anyone else thinking that the huntress is Valerie and Stefan's child??

 

 

My mind went there as well. It might also explain why the huntress is after Stefan specifically. I really hope they don't go down that route. It would just be a Nadia retread if they did. 

[Cattitude]

What I got about the hunter was the sword and the stone work together. In order for your soul to go into the stone you have to be pierced in the heart with the sword while the hunter has the stone. That is how Julian got in the stone and why Damon just piercing his heart didn't work b/c he didn't have the stone. Since 3 yrs later Stefan has same scar we must assume he will be sent into the stone too. Now why the hunter does this is still a mystery but maybe once you are in the stone the hunter wants to keep you there so if you get reunited with your body she tries to put you back and that is why she is chasing Stefan.

 

I just wonder since Beau got pierced in the neck not heart if he also went into the stone or not?

[raytch]

What I got about the hunter was the sword and the stone work together. In order for your soul to go into the stone you have to be pierced in the heart with the sword while the hunter has the stone. That is how Julian got in the stone and why Damon just piercing his heart didn't work b/c he didn't have the stone. Since 3 yrs later Stefan has same scar we must assume he will be sent into the stone too. Now why the hunter does this is still a mystery but maybe once you are in the stone the hunter wants to keep you there so if you get reunited with your body she tries to put you back and that is why she is chasing Stefan.

I just wonder since Beau got pierced in the neck not heart if he also went into the stone or not?

I'm thinking that as well...

My speculation is that Beau somehow escaped the stab with the sword. Didn't one of the heretics say that she was reunited with beau and that other Heretic at some point? This means they were separated at some point...

I hope it's not Stefan's daughter but there's definitely some sort of connection there.

[ByTor]

In order for your soul to go into the stone you have to be pierced in the heart with the sword while the hunter has the stone.

Wait a minute, does this mean we have some continuity going on? The soul that was living in Jo said she remembered getting pierced in the heart.

[slayer2]

Wait a minute, does this mean we have some continuity going on? The soul that was living in Jo said she remembered getting pierced in the heart.

Continuity? Can't be! There must be some other explanation.

[ally862]

I have a question. Who is the huntress? I don't remember seeing her? Was sure in one of the first 2 episodes? I just binge watched last season and this one but couldn't get the first two episodes of this season so I read the recaps and might have missed something.

[Couver]

We haven't seen who she is yet. They've just alluded to a her & she and we've seen her silhouette a few times but that's it. I think the actress they cast was revealed in the spoiler thread though.