S17.E09: Depravity Standard

[Spartan Girl]

Oh I think it's safe to say it's coming. If you're like me and can't stand too much of WL then just skip to end of 2nd last paragraph http://www.examiner.com/article/law-order-svu-boss-reveals-mockery-maniacal-plan-for-future-episodes

As long as she gets what she deserves, I'm game.

[halkatla]

Huang is almost as disgusting as the child-killer he tried to get off for money.

[itainttippithebird]

 

Oh I think it's safe to say it's coming. If you're like me and can't stand too much of WL then just skip to end of 2nd last paragraph http://www.examiner....future-episodes

 

Man! Way to play the really subtle long game, SVU! (In constrast to, well...almost everything else you do!)

[Tara Ariano]

In case you missed it, here's the Previously.TV post on the episode!

 

The Cases That Haunt Us
Huang returns, and so does an S14 case ripped from the 1979 headlines -- and Liv's soggy self-regard. Boo. However: Barba! Yay!

[solequeene]

That's interesting that Raul said that, I'm glad I'm not just seeing something that's not there! It would be good if at some stage they made that clear because bisexual characters don't have enough representation on TV shows.

 

Totally! I'd love to have a bi character in the show.

 

Oh no, sorry I gave you the impression I was having a go at you re the meds! I wasn't at all - I was having a little rant about the depiction of drugs like that in general on fictional programs, it just adds to the stigma of mental illness.

 

We're cool :)

 

 

Seeing George again was great even if he was on the defense's side. I wish I could have seen Rafael cross examine him though. When George is talking about Hodda's father being an abusive drunk, Rafi looked pretty agitated. Maybe because his own father was like that?

 

I also noticed when Rafi cross examined Hodda, his hand clenched into a fist again.

 

I knew he was clenching his fist! He always reacts strongly to DV matters, so I think it's safe to assume that he has some reasons to Take That Personally.

 

 

Huang is almost as disgusting as the child-killer he tried to get off for money.

Why?

[xHellKat]

Why? The role of a forensic psychiatrist is to look at all the evidence and answer the referral questions based on assessments, interviews and past research, not to take sides. A forensic psych who takes sides often finds that they've lost all credibility in the scientific community. The defence (who hired him) asked him to take a look at the likelihood that he was susceptible to suggestibility, so he did. He never said that he didn't/couldn't have killed the kid, just that in his view, based on information provided, assessments administered and a body of research into the area, it is likely that he's more suggestible and vulnerable to confessing to things than other people. Especially since US detectives use the Reid model of questioning suspects which is not best practice and is essentially manipulation, persuasive techniques and deception. 

[CelticBlackCat]

I've always thought Dr. Huang is unbiased, despite us viewers feeling like he is friends with or friendly with or "on the side of" the prosecution.  I believe he calls them how he sees them, based on his education, expertise and experiences.  He didn't say absolutely without a doubt that Hodda was manipulated, just given his personality profile and psychological assessment, that he could have been manipulated by authority figures, more easily than the average person.

 

Dr. Huang did not sell out to the highest bidder for a paycheck to say what they wanted.  He has integrity.

In real life, Raul Esparza has said he is bisexual.

[Zoe]

Can somebody explain what was happening to Rollins? She started feeling the pain in her back?

[Bananna]

Eh, I'm unsure as to whether I actually liked this episode. Something just felt missing, I felt there should have been an extra 15 minutes left at the end. I wish they would stop with the "I don't want my child to testify" spiel because I feel like it happens 80% of the time when it comes to children having to testify. Half of the episode seemed like filler, like the jury spending so much time deliberating and them asking questions. Or the police officer, who just seemed off. There waas far too little Huang or Fin for my liking.

 

But other than that, it was a solidly acting episode all round. It was great after three Barba-less episode that he had a lot of scenes. I was so glad that there was an episode where St Olivia's antics actually were called out. I thought the end of the episode drama was a little unneeded and made the whole thing seem really soap-operaish. Then again Rollins' pregnancy has been progresses like something off a soap opera.

[watcher]

The original episode Hodda was mad at the family of the little boy. He was the muscle and an arsonist for them but wasn't taken care of in his old age. So that particular kidnapping is different from the other paedophile/murder kidnapping.

Wong could be right.

[GarnetGirl]

Here's what I liked:

1. BARBA, BARBA, and more BARBA! I think it is a tribute to Raul Esparza that there are people who ship him with every single character on the show. He just connects as a character. 

2. I loved the Barba and Carisi interactions. Someone on another site compared them to J.D. and Dr. Cox on Scrubs and I think that is an apt analogy.

3. Did I stand up and cheer when Barba told Olivia off? I sure did. She was annoying.

4. All of the guest stars were really great.

 

I agree that leaving Amanda in danger of losing the baby was a cheap stunt that they had been staying away from this season. Gross.

[Save Yourself]

I've always thought Dr. Huang is unbiased, despite us viewers feeling like he is friends with or friendly with or "on the side of" the prosecution.  I believe he calls them how he sees them, based on his education, expertise and experiences.  He didn't say absolutely without a doubt that Hodda was manipulated, just given his personality profile and psychological assessment, that he could have been manipulated by authority figures, more easily than the average person.

 

Dr. Huang did not sell out to the highest bidder for a paycheck to say what they wanted.  He has integrity.

In real life, Raul Esparza has said he is bisexual.

I agree with your assessment of Huang, he's always been ethical and even when he was working with SVU they sometimes didn't like his professional opinion. That's what he needs do as a forensic psychiatrist, use his skills to assess the suspect and report on them no matter what consequences that may have. I really believe him when he says he thought for sure the guy was responsible for the other act but couldn't be positive about this one. I believe that Huang will still give honest appraisals so if it's not going to help the defendant in a case they just won't use him as an expert in that trial.

I did know RE is bisexual but I didn't know how to word my thoughts re that information: I wonder if because that is his orientation in real life that he plays the same for Barba because, as I said earlier, not many bisexual people are represented on TV.

[Calamity Jane]

Can somebody explain what was happening to Rollins? She started feeling the pain in her back?

Well, it seemed deliberately ambiguous, but some people do have "back labor," where the pain is felt there rather than in the cervix/uterus.  She had already been having normal labor pains, though, right?  So this is supposed to signal something else going on, but just what is anybody's guess at this point.  ??

[shapeshifter]

ETA:

Well, it seemed deliberately ambiguous, but some people do have "back labor," where the pain is felt there rather than in the cervix/uterus. She had already been having normal labor pains, though, right? So this is supposed to signal something else going on, but just what is anybody's guess at this point. ??

My money's on placental abruption: http://www.mayoclinic.org/diseases-conditions/placental-abruption/basics/symptoms/con-20024292

I disagree with this...

http://previously.tv/law-and-order-svu/the-cases-that-haunt-us/

Fin Speaks For Us All

Looking sharp in his courtroom suit, and sweetly supportive as he brings Rollins to the hospital when she needs to go on a monitor, but no Tutuola truth bombs.

because this:

The Good:...

Fin's facial expressions talking about and dealing with the auxilliary cop....

However....coerced confession or not, he definitely did it.

Are we sure?

The original episode Hodda was mad at the family of the little boy. He was the muscle and an arsonist for them but wasn't taken care of in his old age. So that particular kidnapping is different from the other paedophile/murder kidnapping.

Wong could be right.

I don't recall Hodda's whole story. Is it possible that the creepy auxilliary cop was involved in burying Hector's body?

Regardless, I liked this bit:

[Auxilliary Cop] Mr. Barba! I've been trying to reach you.

I left seven messages.

[barba] Oh, well, there's nothing to talk about. The case has already gone to the jury.

[Auxilliary Cop] Oh no, that's the thing, one of the jurors, Juror Number Four, Thomas Johnson, he lied.

[barba] Wait, how do you how did you know his name?

[Auxilliary Cop] I gave a court clerk 50 bucks.

[barba] You bribed a court clerk?

[Auxilliary Cop] I checked Johnson out. He was arrested in Maryland for assault last year. The charges were dropped, but he lost his job.

[barba] Okay, well, there must be 10,000 Thomas Johnsons.

[Auxilliary Cop] No, no, no. It's him, it's him. I went to his house in my uniform and I talked to his sister. It's him. He's on the jury, and he doesn't like cops.

[barba] You committed bribery, impersonated a real police officer, and you tampered with a juror?

[Auxilliary Cop] He could be in that room right now, poisoning the entire jury. Okay, you have to tell the judge.

[barba] And ask for what? A mistrial? It's too late to bring in an alternate.

[Auxilliary Cop] I didn't know that. I should have acted faster, but I did find it out. You'll tell the NYPD what I did, won't you?

[barba] Oh, yeah. You can count on it.

Edited November 30, 2015 by shapeshifter

[TimetoShine]

I don't know if I can say I liked this episode (simply because of the subject matter) but I did enjoy watching Carisi and Barba. I don't know if the guy was guilty or not but he was certainly creepy. So was the fake cop.

 

I too agree that it's horrible to have a pregnant actress act that labor scene out. How awful of them. The only enjoyable part of the last few minutes was the below simply because I love Carisi.

 

I liked seeing Carisi being Rollins' doula. He was quite caring.

I didn't care about seeing Huang again.

[Catherinewriter]

I was so caught up in Sizemore's performance that now I can't remember whether or not he has definitely been identified as the other boy's kidnapper. If not, then I think Robin's defense is strong and he was probably coerced. I hope they don't drop this story next season.

 

Excellent, really excellent work by Tom Sizemore, Raul Esparza, and the actress who played Hector's mother.

[LeGrandElephant]

I would have liked some "previously on" scenes. I really had no recollection of the previous case and it made the episode confusing - I had no idea whether the guy had really done one or both kidnappings or what. 

[DaynaPhile]

I have nothing smart to say about the episode. I kept watching Liv's hair. It went back and forth from being sleek and sexy, to a little wrinkled and frumpy like it had been tucked behind her ears for too long and then they shot a scene.

Barba telling her to sit her ass down? Was awesome. Mad as hell sparks were flying from both their eyes. And then I wish they would have kissed. Angry kissing. I'm easy.

I know I'm in the minority, but Carisi irritates me. The actor is good in the character, but the character is irritating. I find his over eagerness a bit much. He is sweet to Rollins though, and that's nice.

Poor Amanda. I hate having a baby's life be a cliffhanger. Anyone know if when they come back it will pick up right here or will they do a time whoosh and we'll be left to imagine what happened when characters talk about getting past whatever happened three months ago? I hate that. But I think KG had already had her baby by the time they filmed this. She gave birth in early October, which explains why she was only mentioned for the past few episodes, and now that she's back on screen it's for very little time. So not so rough to have her play a difficult labor scene. But awful to possibly play losing her baby.

Points for ocassional sexy Liv hair, more points for awesome Barba.

[Chas411]

 

I remember Raúl Esparza saying he plays Barba as ambiguosly bi and we know that Barba had girlfriends in the past.

I actually thought he and the other attorney had some serious sexual tension.

 

Can someone explain to me Carisi's little boys catch? I didn't understand that or why it was a catch.

[solequeene]

I actually thought he and the other attorney had some serious sexual tension.

Can someone explain to me Carisi's little boys catch? I didn't understand that or why it was a catch.

They did! I was surprised by her 'arm candy' comment, though.

I didn't get the little boys parts, either.

[Princess Lucky]

I actually thought he and the other attorney had some serious sexual tension.

 

Can someone explain to me Carisi's little boys catch? I didn't understand that or why it was a catch.

 

 

They did! I was surprised by her 'arm candy' comment, though.

I didn't get the little boys parts, either.

 

I agree both Raul Esparza and Robin Weigert were playing it as though their characters were hate-flirting, but she also gave Carisi the once-over and she patted him on the arm and called him eye-candy, so maybe she was trying to intimidate them? Frazzle them? Or maybe that's just her thing? Or maybe she has good taste?

 

As for the 'little boys' part, I think Carisi caught the fact Tom Sizemore stumbled on the word 'boys' as he was speaking. Carisi realized this was, like, a pressure point. Leverage. Something Barba could use to emotionally rattle Sizemore and get him to slip. That's why Barba said 'little boys' repeatedly, until Sizemore got distracted and then Barba bamboozled him with a question about touching the boy.

 

I think it was part of Sizemore not wanting to be considered a child molester, and he was maybe even uncomfortable with the idea of people knowing he was attracted to little 'boys' (instead of girls? But that's just my speculation). Anyway, this was a catch because it allowed Barba to get him to confess that he had actually seen the boy (placing the perp with the victim shortly before the crime). And I guess Carisi caught it because he's more experienced in interrogations (as opposed to cross-examination) than Barba. While a cross-examination is usually milder, because it happens in public, lol, interrogations can get pretty hardcore, with the cops manipulating the perps based on little tells like that.

[solequeene]

Thank you for the explanation! That makes a lot of sense. Go Carisi!

Re: the arm candy comment, I thought that she meant that Carisi was arm candy to Barba and then I thought that he has that kind of arm cansy before? IDK.

Hate-flirting is yitally accurate. In the scene where they are making the deal, she asks if Carisso has to be there and Barba replies something like 'To chaperone? Yes'.

I really like this episode ☺

[Princess Lucky]

Thank you for the explanation! That makes a lot of sense. Go Carisi!

Re: the arm candy comment, I thought that she meant that Carisi was arm candy to Barba and then I thought that he has that kind of arm cansy before? IDK.

 

Go Carisi indeed!

 

And, ooh, you thought that maybe she said that because, knowing Barba, she was used to seeing him with young men as arm candy? Like she was asking 'who's your new boy toy?' I like that idea, it hadn't occured to me.

 

Edit: I just realized I typed "eye-candy" in my previous comment, referring to Carisi. As opposed to the correct "arm candy". Freudian slip, heh.

Edited February 7, 2016 by Princess Lucky