S14.E15: Season 14 Reunion

[backgroundnoise]

Ashley was mean girl marginalized,

It really doesn't sound like this to me.  Everyone was talking over everyone, no one was being listened to.  It doesn't sound like Ashley was treated any differently than any of the others, but she shut herself down and the others didn't.  Maybe she realized the futility of it and stopped talking and maybe the others took that as her not participating, hence they chose her as the weakest link.   Heidi, Kelly Osborne, and Lori stirred the shit enough to make it seem like Ashley was badly treated, but I seriously doubt there was some grand conspiracy against her.  YMMV.

[atticdrama]

One of the hallmarks of a Mean Girl dynamic (esp. as seen in corporate environments, which Candace seemed to suddenly think they were in) is to ignore, undermine or shut down any contributions from the other.  And any persistence on the part of the other will be used to further alienate that individual from the group.  That alienation is usually highlighted against the group bonding together, often in defiance of a suggestion made by the other (the ruination of the material). Ashley was mean girl marginalized, and given her history, she knew what the next step would be if she pushed back harder. 

 

And it's disturbing to me that after a decade of this behavior being examined in academic,  corporate and familial situations, we're still blaming the victims, not the perps; deconstructing what "they" did wrong, instead of deconstructing the wrong itself.

Bolding mine, and cosigining so hard to this whole post. 

[backgroundnoise]

And it's disturbing to me that after a decade of this behavior being examined in academic,  corporate and familial situations, we're still blaming the victims, not the perps; deconstructing what "they" did wrong, instead of deconstructing the wrong itself.

It's disturbing to me that we're so quick to cry "victim!" and state there was wrong done, especially in a situation as trivial as a game show.  Why can't we say everyone behaved stupidly?  Calling Ashley a victim in this situation trivializes true victims of discrimination or abuse.  She's a grown woman who had the right and opportunity to speak up at any time.  YMMV.

Edited November 17, 2015 by backgroundnoise

[film noire]

I seriously doubt there was some grand conspiracy against her.  YMMV.

 

Who is suggesting a grand conspiracy? 

 

Ms Blue Jay, I agree that it's not sexist to notice sexist behavior:)

 

Men can be negative towards other men, too!  It just gets a different label.  Or "Boys will be Boys", or no label, because they're men so whatever.  (Sarcasm here.)

 

Yes -- and now,  according to the authors (Crowley and Elster) of "Mean Girls at Work: How to Stay Professional when Things Get Personal" Mean Girling has crossed over into the corporate habits of men as well. Yay. Equality.

 

 

 

It's disturbing to me that we're so quick to cry "victim!" and state there was wrong done, especially in a situation as trivial as a game show.

 

Where it happens -- Congress or the deli or a reality show -- shouldn't stop anyone from commenting on the subject.

Edited November 17, 2015 by film noire

[atticdrama]

It's disturbing to me that we're so quick to cry "victim!" and state there was wrong done, especially in a situation as trivial as a game show.  Why can't we say everyone behaved stupidly?  Calling Ashley a victim in this situation trivializes true victims of discrimination or abuse.  She's a grown woman who had the right and opportunity to speak up at any time.  YMMV.

The "who's a real victim" Olympics are a zero sum game. Obviously there are much more serious arenas than Project Runway, but here we all are. 

 

The women of color were picked last (or nearly) in the paintball challenge, and the fat woman of color was singled out as the difficult one. That's a telling fact in and of itself. Saying someone is "difficult," or "hard to work with"or "not a team player" or any number of vague, unprovable accusations are pretty typical microaggressions. I'd argue that that mediocre idiot whose name I can't be bothered to remember's treatment of Merline was pretty bad as well. 

[Kromm]

One of the hallmarks of a Mean Girl dynamic (esp. as seen in corporate environments, which Candace seemed to suddenly think they were in) is to ignore, undermine or shut down any contributions from the other.  And any persistence on the part of the other will be used to further alienate that individual from the group.  That alienation is usually highlighted against the group bonding together, often in defiance of a suggestion made by the other (the ruination of the material). Ashley was mean girl marginalized, and given her history, she knew what the next step would be if she pushed back harder. 

Which while that sounds true in the real world for many people, doesn't match the footage we were actually shown (of people on camera asking Ashley to vocalize her opinions and objections and her instead shutting down and clamming up).

Edited November 17, 2015 by Kromm

[Kromm]

The "who's a real victim" Olympics are a zero sum game. Obviously there are much more serious arenas than Project Runway, but here we all are. 

 

The women of color were picked last (or nearly) in the paintball challenge, and the fat woman of color was singled out as the difficult one. That's a telling fact in and of itself. Saying someone is "difficult," or "hard to work with"or "not a team player" or any number of vague, unprovable accusations are pretty typical microaggressions. I'd argue that that mediocre idiot whose name I can't be bothered to remember's treatment of Merline was pretty bad as well. 

Well, yes. Whatever her skin color, the previous few episodes had spent plenty of time telling us that Merline was annoying and hard to work with--and this point of view wasn't somehow magically about the other women on the show but was in fact discussed even more by the men. So this certainly doesn't forward any argument that the women marginalized Ashley and Merline because of race. If so, what of the men? Do they get a pass simply because Blake acted outraged on camera ONCE?  So yeah, it's a zero sum game.  These people went on a reality show to compete for money. That already makes them desperate in a way, motivated by profit or desire for exposure I mean, but also these shows by their very nature cast for the least common denominator, and then bring out the worst in anyone going on them anyway (and then often edit them even WORSE).

[needschocolate]

The thing that always got me about the team challenge is that there were valid reasons for not picking Ashley that shouldn't hurt her feelings.  Candice could have easily pulled Ashley aside and said, "I thought Amanda needed the boost of being picked before everyone else, she has been so down lately, and I had a feeling the guys were only going to pick other guys so I knew we'd end up on.the same team anyway."  This might not be the truth, but I get the impression Candice has no problem telling someone a fib.  

 

The others could have said that they are friends with the one they picked and didn't want any hurt feelings.  Or anyone could have pointed out how their aesthetics are different from Ashley's, and not in a bad way.  

 

I thought that maybe acceptable reasons were given at the apartments and that is why we didn't re-hash the incident in later episodes.  But, with the way things went at the reunion, it looks no one offered an plausible excuse.  That may not make them "mean girls" but it did make them inconsiderate.  They had to have known that Ashley would feel bad, especially after Heidi pointed it out.

 

And I can understand why Ashley didn't contribute. She was picked last and she didn't know why.  She may have been thinking --- "It isn't the quality of my work since I have won twice already, Everyone seems to like me and I don't think I am doing anything annoying.  Maybe they thought I would try to boss everyone since I have won twice. Or maybe they were afraid I would wan't to stick with my aesthetic. Well then, I am just going to be the least opinionated person on the team - I will just go along with everyone else."  I think she actually said something in a talking head to this effect.  Of course, she may have also gotten pouty and thought "Well, screw them, if they don't want me on their team, I am just going to give them the silent treatment."  

 

Or maybe this was just her standard response to being picked last.  I have a feeling that she has had a lot of experience in being picked last.  If she was a chubby kid, then she was likely picked last in PE, and I believe she mentioned once that she was dyslexic, which means she was probably picked last in group projects in school too.  

[Tony]

But she did. She kicked ass during the paint ball portion.  It wasn't until the work room when she shut down...and that was because the other women wouldn't listen to her (or to each other, as was properly pointed out above).  Now she may have seemed more sensitive then the rest, but none of them did anything overwhelmingly good  during that challenge. 

 

So basically what you're saying is that they treated her just like how they treated each other, but because she's such a sensitive little special snowflake, they ended up mean-girling her because they didn't bend over backwards for her and gave her special treatment?

 

That makes total sense.

[auntlada]

I can understand why she might not keep trying to contribute, for reasons other than mean-girlism. I would have quit, too, because I find it difficult to talk over people and force them to listen to me, so I just give up. That doesn't make it a good thing to do, though, particularly when you're right and in a contest.

[FormerMod-a1]

Time to move on from the Ashley / mean girl / team challenge discussion. 

[Qoass]

I think the lesson to be learned here is that on any group challenge of any reality show, do something really good whether it has anything to do with the direction chosen by your team or not.  That way, even if your team loses, you probably won't get sent home by the judges.

[devonshiredeb]

Ashley's vocal fry at the beginning of the show made me want to stab myself.  It seemed to lessen as the show went on.  Maybe she only does it when she's feeling like the Queen Bee.

 

Congrats to Kelly!  She showed grace and humility throughout the show and is definitely a winner in my book.  (Even though I probably won't wear a fanny pack.)

Not when Kelly was whining about being called a "Mean girl" when she clearly was.....

[terrymct]

Congrats to Kelly!  She showed grace and humility throughout the show and is definitely a winner in my book.  (Even though I probably won't wear a fanny pack.)

 

Except during the whole Mean Girl thing.  She may have thought she was the "complete opposite" of a mean girl, but she really was...as were the others.   

 

Swapnil, I can image that he thought cruising in the middle was a good idea but I still think the stress got him.  He burned out when his talent could have taken him much farther.

[mansonlamps]

Except during the whole Mean Girl thing. She may have thought she was the "complete opposite" of a mean girl, but she really was...as were the others.

Swapnil, I can image that he thought cruising in the middle was a good idea but I still think the stress got him. He burned out when his talent could have taken him much farther.

I think there is definitely a contingent who don't think there really was a "mean girl" attitude at all (which I lean toward ), but if we agree there was, I believe Kelly was as much a part of it as anyone else.

[Straycat80]

I don't know where to put this so the Mods can move it wherever but did anyone watch the #TBT show with Tim Gunn last night where he reminisces about past season?

[hoodooznoodooz]

I don't know where to put this so the Mods can move it wherever but did anyone watch the #TBT show with Tim Gunn last night where he reminisces about past season?

I watched it, Straycat80.

I enjoyed it but it's a shame that they couldn't include the seasons broadcast on Bravo.

When it broadcast, I didn't pay much attention to the Gretchen season. This special made me lose respect for Michael Kors -- so effusive re Gretchen vs. Mondo.

[Qoass]

I've only watched the first ten minutes but I was so irritated that practically the first thing out of TG's mouth was, "Join us on Facebook!  Comment on Twitter!".  Didn't they think the show could stand on its own without immediate web hits from viewers?

[GaT]

I watched the throwback show, what a waste of an hour.

[Kromm]

I don't know where to put this so the Mods can move it wherever but did anyone watch the #TBT show with Tim Gunn last night where he reminisces about past season?

Why not just create a topic for it like any other episode?  You don't need a mod to do that.  After doing so however, you might want to go back to your own post here, hit the REPORT THIS POST button and in the report ask them to move the relevant posts to the new topic.

 

Puzzling out the right production code/episode number for that special might be a job for the mods too though. I'd just make a guess and let them change it if it's wrong.

[terrymct]

I've only watched the first ten minutes but I was so irritated that practically the first thing out of TG's mouth was, "Join us on Facebook!  Comment on Twitter!".  Didn't they think the show could stand on its own without immediate web hits from viewers?

I actually enjoyed it. I'd forgotten a lot of those people. The best part? Tim admitting that the Thunder from Down Under challenge was the worst thing they've ever done. Yes, yes it was.

[Miss Ruth]

needschocolate said, "Candice could have easily pulled Ashley aside and said,...."

 

I saw no need for Candice, or anyone else, to explain why they chose the way they did.

[needschocolate]

I watched it, Straycat80.

I enjoyed it but it's a shame that they couldn't include the seasons broadcast on Bravo.

When it broadcast, I didn't pay much attention to the Gretchen season. This special made me lose respect for Michael Kors -- so effusive re Gretchen vs. Mondo.

 

Oh yeah...I was wondering why we say them do impressions of Kors and Nina but not the impression (by Santino?) of Tim - "Andre, Andre, where is Andre?" It was because that was a Bravo season.  duh!

 

When I saw Gretchen's winning FW collection, I thought that maybe Ashley's wasn't so bad after all.

[Straycat80]

I also missed them showing those early seasons that were on Bravo because I thought those were the best. Especially the first season with Austin Scarlett and Jay Carroll. Everytime they do an unconventional material challenge I always think of Austin's corn husk dress. That was the best ever.

[RealityCowgirl]

Oh yeah...I was wondering why we say them do impressions of Kors and Nina but not the impression (by Santino?) of Tim - "Andre, Andre, where is Andre?" It was because that was a Bravo season.  duh!

 

When I saw Gretchen's winning FW collection, I thought that maybe Ashley's wasn't so bad after all.

 

Dear god. As if I needed more reasons than I already have (Tim Gunn.) to skip this particular bonus. I'd rather forget most of the Lifetime seasons. And catching a peek at Gretchen's collection again would qualify as "nightmare" material. Thanks for the heads-up, everyone.

Edited November 22, 2015 by RealityCowgirl

[yeswedo]

Reminder that this topic is for the Season 14 Reunion episode, not general chitchat about anything related to PR.