S02.E11: A Rapidly Mutating Virus

[ElectricBoogaloo]

Jimmy gets closer to his bartender friend, Nina. Gretchen accompanies Sam to do a radio interview. Edgar attempts to make inroads with Dorothy's comedy friends.

[wendyg]

"That's your best garbage bag."

[Wanderdown]

Who do we have to bribe to get the return of "Doctor Weed!" in future episodes?

[Traveller519]

Great balance of the comedy and drama in this episode. A bit of a lift from the straight laughs of last episode.

 

Lindsay, get Gretchen to a doctor as soon as possible. You're probably the only person she'll listen to, at this point.

[inyourmarrow]

I just finished watching the episode, so I'm still processing everything, but that last scene with Lindsay and Gretchen was perfect. It's a true testament to their friendship that Lindsay understands that she just has to let Gretchen be. And it's because Lindsay understands this, that Gretchen can at least be open and present around her. When she realizes that she felt bored when she pulled that gun out, and that she can't feel anything, giving Lindsay the cocaine because it's not working anymore...damn. And Lindsay's response is to bop her in the face with the spoon -- highlight of the episode for me. Added levity to balance such a heavy moment, and it was oddly sweet. 

 

I don't even know how to properly articulate it, but there's just a subtle intensity to Gretchen's deepening condition. It's like, she has me completely anxious that she is going to shatter so spectacularly at any moment, and it builds to the highest peak, and then...she gets right to the edge before stopping. So fucking great, and I have no idea what to expect when she finds out about Nina. She's probably going to realize she actually has to talk with Jimmy more about this, and Jimmy is going to feel guilty (whether you think he technically cheated or not, he still cares about Gretchen). 

 

Poor Edgar. I'm glad things are seemingly going well for him, and I hope that he finishes off this season well. I feel like I'm supposed to be waiting for the other shoe to drop with him, but I just don't think it will. And thank god, because I'm not sure any of us could handle that on top of everything else.

 

And I'm also so thrilled with Lindsay's development this season. She's still unabashedly, for better or worse, the exact same person we met let season, but they've peeled back some of her layers and have given her small, but very earned wins. I've always been one of those viewers who love it when female friendships pass the Bechdel test. Initially, on the surface, Lindsay and Gretchen do not. But when you see how terrible they are, and consider that they've seen each other at their most deplorable and still choose to be loyal friends regardless -- they've become one of my favorite female dynamics on TV. It just feels really authentic. 

Edited November 19, 2015 by inyourmarrow

[Deanie87]

I'm not sure how I feel about this episode, or in how Gretchen's arc is going.  Objectively, I think its great that this show has the guts to try new things and the actors are certainly up to the task and I find what they are doing interesting, but I guess I'm just not enjoying the show as much as I used to.  My favorite thing about the show last season was the way that Jimmy and Gretchen interacted with each other and their back and forth, which we are barely getting now.  It also may have to do with the fact that I liked Jimmy more than Gretchen from the start, maybe because I found the ways that he is horrible (pretentious, self-centered and self-important) were funnier than the ways that Gretchen is horrible, and I don't feel that we are getting much of Jimmy lately, except the last episode.

 

I am glad that it looks as if things are going to come to head soon, because (and I know this is awful) Gretchen's depression is starting to bore me.  I appreciate that they are doing it, and what stories it will hopefully bring for Jimmy and Gretchen (even a breakup), but I'm I ready for it to move to the next stage for all of the characters.

[arc]

I'm still finding it worth watching, but I wish Jimmy would think a little more, like ask how she's medicating or self-medicating and if she wants to change the treatment to something else. It's not like she's ever hidden her use of recreational drugs from Jimmy, so I can't imagine he doesn't know she snorts Adderall.

 

Edgar's crappy behavior at the party felt half-unmotivated to me.  And the reconciliation with Dorothy also felt a little too easy.

 

Holy shit at Vernon getting blackmailed by a webcam model though, and esp that he's into "findom" which I still find hard to believe is a thing.  But he killed it with every line tonight.  (Also, as pointed out in the AV Club recap, now we understand why he was so desperate to give Lindsay money a few episodes ago: he gets off on it somehow.) Becca was more outwardly the worst -- cheering against her sister's even modest success in the middle of a collapsing life -- but Vernon is actively destroying his and Becca's future, including stealing from their vacation fund ... and while he has rolls of cash in his safe downstairs even. Aw, dammit, now I've talked myself out of simply finding Vernon funny.

 

How can Nina be a bartender at the bar she owns that Jimmy frequents and not have picked up that Jimmy and Gretchen are a couple?

[Traveller519]

I try not to take it too seriously when shows get facts wrong. But as a skier, Nina's backstory was burning a hole in my head.

 

Nina wouldn't have moved from competing in downhill racing (in the Olympics) to some sort of X-games competition, unless is was skier-cross, but then she wouldn't be alone on a course, much less one that had powder on it, and especially nothing that had Brent Musberger doing Play-by-Play!

 

Ahhhh it feels good to rant that out!

[kiddo82]

And that medal looked like it was from the 2012 summer games not the 2010 Winter Olympics

Edited November 20, 2015 by kiddo82

[TheRabbi]

I agree with Deanie87 on every single point. I appreciate that they are trying new things, but the Gretchen storyline has really run its course at this point. The episode a few eps back where she was stalking that 'perfect' couple was incredibly fascinating. But now I'm finding myself bored. Jimmy's humor has always been the funniest element of the show for me, and it has been absent for much of the season.

[Ottis]

I agree with Deanie87 on every single point. I appreciate that they are trying new things, but the Gretchen storyline has really run its course at this point. The episode a few eps back where she was stalking that 'perfect' couple was incredibly fascinating. But now I'm finding myself bored.

 

 

I passed bored several episodes ago. Now I'm more insulted than bored. The portrayal of Gretchen's depression comes across like someone behind the show has been frustrated in his/her personal life that others '"just don't get it" when he/she is depressed, and is exploding that frustration on screen through Gretchen's behavior. Gretchen is coherent enough to try to do her job - she was at the radio interview, tried to talk down Sam and then scared off the angry grrrls with the gun. She ought to be coherent enough to tell Jimmy that her depression has happened before, it takes X long and the best thing he can do is giver her space during that time. Or something. Her constant rejection of everything he tried to do, and ultimately even his mere presence in this ep, makes me question who Gretchen really is underneath the depression. She might be even worse than "the worst" and not worth Jimmy's time, period.

Edited November 20, 2015 by Ottis

[CMH1981]

I'm loving how the Gretchen storyline is playing out...it's like a slow burn but it is effective.  I can't wait for the final explosion.

 

The scene where she basically told Jimmy she doesn't feel anything anymore was so sad.  I'm curious as to how it will all play out b/c imo it was her breaking up w/ Jimmy w/o outright saying it.  Jimmy didn't read it that way at first since he fought his feelings w/ the bar owner until finally he decided to say screw it.  I do wonder if Gretchen will see it that way, or it was just another of her rants about how he isn't understanding her at this point in her life.  I've said this before but I do feel that I like Jimmy and Gretchen not together.

 

I just feel drained and sad for Gretchen, but it's given me a whole new insight to Gretchen and Lindsay's relationship.  I love that Gretchen still has someone in her corner.

 

I did love at Lindsay's that she has taken a liking to "Queen's Beans" after Jimmy's family visit.  

[Irlandesa]

I'm not sure how I feel about this episode, or in how Gretchen's arc is going.  Objectively, I think its great that this show has the guts to try new things and the actors are certainly up to the task and I find what they are doing interesting, but I guess I'm just not enjoying the show as much as I used to.  My favorite thing about the show last season was the way that Jimmy and Gretchen interacted with each other and their back and forth, which we are barely getting now. 

Yep.  This is a story I can appreciate intellectually but have a hard time actually enjoying.  I'm relieved any time this show turns back to pure comedy, even when it is a bit over-the-top.

 

I'm still finding it worth watching, but I wish Jimmy would think a little more, like ask how she's medicating or self-medicating and if she wants to change the treatment to something else. It's not like she's ever hidden her use of recreational drugs from Jimmy, so I can't imagine he doesn't know she snorts Adderall.

Except Gretchen has labeled him as "trying to fix her."  While this was definitely true for Sunday Funday, since then, it seems like he's just letting her be.  He didn't try to fix her last week and he didn't try to fix her this week.  He just tried to act normally.  I have a feeling that asking her questions about how she's self-medicating wouldn't be embraced.  

[rho]

I've said this before but I do feel that I like Jimmy and Gretchen not together.

 

I agree. I thought they got together almost too quickly in the first season. I preferred them trying to keep their little trysts a secret. They've said it themselves, this relationship they have is "mutually assured destruction" and was never intended to be smooth sailing. I look forward to the inevitable breakup and maybe even a more casual thing later on.

[arc]

They've said it themselves, this relationship they have is "mutually assured destruction" and was never intended to be smooth sailing.

I took her line from the s1 finale differently: "[two pit bulls together] nullify the threat through mutually assured destruction" (paraphrased from memory). Depression aside, her pitch was that they'd be "couch buds", so basically smooth-ish sailing, after considering that both of them are in their own sets of self-imposed arrested development.

[biakbiak]

I am over this storyline because I have lived it. I don't think there is one pill or therapist that can solve it. But her snorting adderall and coke doesn't make me sympathetic.

I completely understand that depression is a crazy disease but at some point and its not always been before they were.doing lines.of adderall they tried to fight it but the person has to make choices to get better.

Edited November 22, 2015 by biakbiak

[whiporee]

I did want to point out that Gretchen can collect herself for moments -- Sam's radio interview she sprung into action when it was going bad. But I don't know enough about depression to know if that's a usual thing, or just writer's indulgences. 

[wendyg]

How collected was she, though? I thought what she said was pretty incoherent, and it wasn't at all clear that it saved their public situation.

[arc]

It was something about when group artists go solo and suck, that doesn't mean the group itself sucks now. And she cited some really, really old examples with a promise to look up newer examples later. So no, it wouldn't have helped even if the DJ hadn't cut her off immediately.

[Bubbles]

I didn't see her behavior during the interview as being able to collect herself when needed - I took it as pretty much the opposite. It was ill-advised for her to be jumping in on her client's radio interview at all. Publicists generally don't run in and grab the mic to interrupt an interview. To me, that moment and the one where she pulled out the gun (which could easily have escalated the fight and gotten someone killed) demonstrated that both her judgement and her impulse control are pretty much shot at this point.

[StrictTime]

IMO, the whole series is spoilered in the opening theme song. "I'm gonna leave you anyway." At this point, I want Jimmy and Nina to be a couple. She's so pleasant. And Jimmy has no reason to live with someone so miserable. From the beginning, they were just out for a good time and loose companionship, and now Jimmy has neither of those things.

[wendyg]

Agree with Bubbles, there.

 

StrictTime: >>From the beginning, they were just out for a good time and loose companionship, and now Jimmy has neither of those things.>>

 

I think that's not quite true. That's what they protected themselves by *saying* they were there for. I think it was clear by the end of season 1 that the relationship was a lot more than that to both of them. Remember, Jimmy's father told him not to waste his life on someone so miserable, and his response, "I really like Gretchen, so...", implying that leaving her for that reason wasn't an option.

Edited November 24, 2015 by wendyg

[Eyes High]

I am over this storyline because I have lived it. I don't think there is one pill or therapist that can solve it. But her snorting adderall and coke doesn't make me sympathetic.

I completely understand that depression is a crazy disease but at some point and its not always been before they were.doing lines.of adderall they tried to fight it but the person has to make choices to get better.

 

I think that part of the problem is that we have no information as to what, if anything, Gretchen has attempted to do to combat her depression other than riding out the dark periods and self-medicating with illicit drugs and alcohol. She's from a wealthy background, so presumably if her parents were aware of the problem she would have been able to access the best resources money could buy. It's possible that her parents knew of the problem and were unsympathetic, or that her parents never found out about the problem, but again, we don't have the information either way. If she did access resources, it's possible that it was her experience that therapy and medication were ineffective, but we just don't know. If Gretchen had said something like "I've tried doctors, I've tried antidepressants, and the only thing that has ever worked for me is riding out the rough patches when they hit," that would be at least understandable; many people commenting on this storyline have said that it was their experience that doctors and medication were of little assistance to them. We don't have that information, though. We don't know what Gretchen has tried, if anything. The implication seems to be that she has been diagnosed but hasn't sought treatment. Personally, I'd be surprised if she were on antidepressants given all the booze and coke she has consumed, although I suppose it's possible.

 

Based solely on the information Gretchen has provided, she's aware that she has had this problem for many years and she has done nothing about the depression when it hits other than self-medicate and wait for the worst of it to pass. If that's the case, it's difficult to feel overly sympathetic towards her ranting about how nothing can be done for her and basically telling Jimmy that he just needs to suck it up.

Edited November 24, 2015 by Eyes High

[Bean421]

I think that part of the problem is that we have no information as to what, if anything, Gretchen has attempted to do to combat her depression other than riding out the dark periods and self-medicating with illicit drugs and alcohol. She's from a wealthy background, so presumably if her parents were aware of the problem she would have been able to access the best resources money could buy. It's possible that her parents knew of the problem and were unsympathetic, or that her parents never found out about the problem, but again, we don't have the information either way. If she did access resources, it's possible that it was her experience that therapy and medication were ineffective, but we just don't know. If Gretchen had said something like "I've tried doctors, I've tried antidepressants, and the only thing that has ever worked for me is riding out the rough patches when they hit," that would be at least understandable; many people commenting on this storyline have said that it was their experience that doctors and medication were of little assistance to them. We don't have that information, though. We don't know what Gretchen has tried, if anything. The implication seems to be that she has been diagnosed but hasn't sought treatment. Personally, I'd be surprised if she were on antidepressants given all the booze and coke she has consumed, although I suppose it's possible.

 

Based solely on the information Gretchen has provided, she's aware that she has had this problem for many years and she has done nothing about the depression when it hits other than self-medicate and wait for the worst of it to pass. If that's the case, it's difficult to feel overly sympathetic towards her ranting about how nothing can be done for her and basically telling Jimmy that he just needs to suck it up.

 I want to marry this post and have it's babies. As someone who's suffered from depression, I totally understand how debilitating it can be. Maybe the end of this story line will be Gretchen realizing she needs to communicate with her loved ones about her depression and how to help her or her learning some less destructive coping methods. I'm just baffled that all Lindsey can do is bop her on the nose with a spoon at this point.   

[Eyes High]

I'm just baffled that all Lindsey can do is bop her on the nose with a spoon at this point.   

 

I know Lindsay's not the sharpest knife in the drawer, but for someone who's aware of the problem and who supposedly loves Gretchen, her past and present behaviour towards Gretchen looks awfully enabling. You don't have to be a genius to know that urging someone who is clinically depressed to abuse drugs and alcohol--as Gretchen accused Lindsay of doing last year, and as we saw her doing--is a terrible thing to do. You see that someone's mood is affected to the point that she can't feel anything and all you can do is bop her on the nose with a spoon? There's unconditional love and acceptance, and then there's enabling.