S02.E08: Rise Of The Villains: Tonight's The Night

[mtlchick]

I did chuckle that Ed's license plate was "RIDL LVR." 

 

I think the show is finally figuring itself.  Last year my main problem was too much of the Batman universe was thrown in so early and too many Easter Eggs to be fun.  But now they've settled into which characters are important and which are secondary (Montoya we hardly knew ye) they're developing their own mythology that could eventually lead to what we know now.

 

Such as how is Gordon so much of an idiot that he hasn't been fired 5 times already?

 

 

Then again, since the actress that plays Leslie is pregnant in real life, maybe they'll write her pregnancy into the show and she'll be Batgirl's mom.

 

Morena was roughly 3 1/2 months along when this episode shot so I can see that being the big reveal at the end of the fall finale.  The show doesn't return until Feb and she wouldn't be due until mid March so plenty of time for the writers to think "so...baby Batgirl now or later?"

[Perfect Xero]

I felt like Jim could have reached Barbara at a couple points if he'd just stop being a dick for two minutes. He does have a dark side, he did go after a psychopath when everyone told him not to, and that's what got Barbara's family killed and drove her to this point. "This is all my fault, I'm sorry" might have gone a long way, but the way Jim's character has been developed he's so goddamned self righteous he's incapable of saying that. So, I may be the only one, but I'm on Team Barbara. Yeah, maybe she should let it go, but he really is an a-hole and a hypocrite.

 

So Jim is responsible for the actions of Barbara and the Ogre because he did his job and went after a serial killer rather than looking the other way and giving him free run to murder people?

[Kromm]

Morena was roughly 3 1/2 months along when this episode shot so I can see that being the big reveal at the end of the fall finale.  The show doesn't return until Feb and she wouldn't be due until mid March so plenty of time for the writers to think "so...baby Batgirl now or later?"

It's a nice spin, but then you have to deal with a "how does the kid EVER get named "Barbara" question.

 

There are things you can give on, like who Batgirl's mom is. But I don't think you could ever give on Batgirl's actual name being "Barbara Gordon". 

 

It did occur to me that they could have some lame plot where Leslie Thompkins gives birth and the baby is immediately kidnapped by Crazy Barbara. But they'd really have to wank it so that Crazy Barbara raised the kid AS Barbara, but without making her in turn crazy herself. Plus, at some point Lil' Babs has to go BACK to Jim Gordon, name intact, because they have a clear Father-Daughter relationship (or perhaps in some Adoptive Father/Uncle-Daughter/Niece) later on.

 

The real question would be if this all happens piled on top of Leslie Thompkins' corpse. In the comics, Leslie Thompkins is necessary later on for Batman himself. Nothing that can't be replaced with another similar character, admittedly though. And I guess we have to think about how Sarah Essen and her role also bears little resemblance to what played out in the comics.

[Tara Ariano]

In case you missed it, here's the Previously.TV post on the episode!

 

Gotham Throws A Wedding!
Well, most of a wedding: all the drama and none of the legally-binding obligations.

[NorthstarATL]

It's a nice spin, but then you have to deal with a "how does the kid EVER get named "Barbara" question.

 

There are things you can give on, like who Batgirl's mom is. But I don't think you could ever give on Batgirl's actual name being "Barbara Gordon". 

 

It did occur to me that they could have some lame plot where Leslie Thompkins gives birth and the baby is immediately kidnapped by Crazy Barbara. But they'd really have to wank it so that Crazy Barbara raised the kid AS Barbara, but without making her in turn crazy herself. Plus, at some point Lil' Babs has to go BACK to Jim Gordon, name intact, because they have a clear Father-Daughter relationship (or perhaps in some Adoptive Father/Uncle-Daughter/Niece) later on.

 

The real question would be if this all happens piled on top of Leslie Thompkins' corpse. In the comics, Leslie Thompkins is necessary later on for Batman himself. Nothing that can't be replaced with another similar character, admittedly though. And I guess we have to think about how Sarah Essen and her role also bears little resemblance to what played out in the comics.

Maybe this is the universe where Batgirl is Alfred's niece (though I shudder to think what THIS Alfred would do in training her!)

[Kromm]

Maybe this is the universe where Batgirl is Alfred's niece (though I shudder to think what THIS Alfred would do in training her!)

Wasn't that just in the uber-shitty Batman & Robin film that virtually everyone in the universe hated?

[NorthstarATL]

Indeed it is/was! I'm just pointing out that there are all sorts of possible variations.

[Camera One]

I'm really intrigued by Penguin and Edward working together.  It was amusing but turning Edward into a would-be mass murderer overnight is a bit much.

 

If I were Lee, I would dump Jim stat.  What an idiot.  Why would they need to distract Jim?  It's not like he and Bruce ever talk.  

 

It was kind of sad how Bruce was crying and Jimbo hasn't once even looked into who killed his parents.  The actor who plays Bruce is pretty awesome.  I was disappointed he even went to the signing.  Alfred was so right that it was extortion.  If Galavan was doing that, how can you trust that he would clean up the company?

[Milz]

 

Since they're having fun playing with the Batverse history on Gotham, a Lee/Alfred romance would've been a cute awesome twist. Since canonically she is a mother figure to Bruce, it would've made sense for her to bond with both of them. Also they kind of missed the opportunity to have her have been a classmate of Bruce's father and be an emotional link to him for Bruce (and possibly know some of Thomas' deep dark secrets).

 

It depends on the Bat-canon because in the 1960s, Batman's mother figure was Ma Chilton, the housekeeper of his uncle Phillip Wayne, who was his guardian after his parent's death.

Edited November 12, 2015 by Milz

[Dobian]

So Crazy Barbara declared her love for Jim and didn't die, and Lee "wants to talk".  Is this show honestly looking into getting Jim back with Barbara so it's back in line with canon?  I guess it's just crazy enough to do it, lol.

 

My favorite line of the night was Nygma's, "For a secluded forest this place sure gets a lot of foot traffic."  I laughed hard.  I like that this show has that kind of self effacing humor.  My second favorite line was also Nygma's, when he apologized to Miss Kringle (in pieces inside his trunk) for jostling her around.

 

Really enjoying this season.

[Perfect Xero]

I do love that Penguin apparently came across a half buried body in the woods next to a picnic, then just stole a sandwich and went on his way.

[driedfruit]

Wasn't that just in the uber-shitty Batman & Robin film that virtually everyone in the universe hated?

 

Nipple suit batman. I still think it's good crack, but I was tiny when I watched. That was an AU Batgirl, Barbara Wilson, not Gordon. 

[JTMacc99]

I adore comic book based entertainment for reasons such as this:

 

Person in room with me who doesn't normally watch Gotham: [As Barbara lets go and falls] "Oooh."

Me: "She probably landed on an open truck full of pillows."

PIRWMWDNWG: "Huh?"

Me: "That's the way this stuff works. You can't actually kill off the best crazy people. You just put them in an asylum or jail for while."

Show: "Good thing those bushes broke her fall."

Me: "Heh."

[queenanne]

I'm about 50% sure this will happen.  If it does, then I expect Barbara to kidnap her and avoid capture long enough so that Babs Jr's name can't be changed.  Otherwise, it wouldn't make any sense for Jim and Lee to name their daughter after any of their exes, much less a psychotic one like Barbara. 

 

But who knows, maybe there won't be any hint of Babs in the Gothamverse.

 

No way is there no hint of Babs.  I don't think it makes any sense at all that you'd name a character "Barbara" in a Batman series, and not have there be a Batgirl Barbara.  I don't care how you get to it, TPTB know that's an iconic name.  (Not that they could've predicted Baccarin getting pregnant.)

 

Erin Richards also seems like she might grow into something special as an actress.  I never noticed how good she is independent of Barbara until this ep.

 

Even for Gotham PD, it’s ridiculous to have Lee sitting around pronouncing on the mental fitness of suspects.  Get her out of there, writers, she’s to deal with the dead bodies.  Apparently we are just supposed to accept that she’s done double duty as a criminally trained psychiatrist in addition to an ME, as someone pointed out last week.

 

I too LOLed when Ed apologized to Suitcase Miss Kringle for jostling her. 

 

Also, wow, they’re being really blatant with the hinting that Theo and Tabitha share a bed, aren’t they?

[Trini]

There are things you can give on, like who Batgirl's mom is. But I don't think you could ever give on Batgirl's actual name being "Barbara Gordon". 

 

They already changed Pamela Isley into Ivy Pepper, so I wouldn't put it past them to change major details of Batgirl/Barbara Gordon on this show.

[Kromm]

They already changed Pamela Isley into Ivy Pepper, so I wouldn't put it past them to change major details of Batgirl/Barbara Gordon on this show.

Barbara Gordon is an important character in of herself, even before she puts on a costume.

 

Pamela Isley wasn't. Poison Ivy was the only important aspect of her.

[wayne67]

Such as how is Gordon so much of an idiot that he hasn't been fired 5 times already?

 

Hasn't he been demoted/fired at least 5 times by now ? I lose track. I think it was funny that he was a uniform and the president of the police union at the same time. It's only been like a year and he must have the weirdest spottiest record of the police department. Luckily he has criminals to pull strings for him since he kind of sucks at his job. What with telling the bad guys that he's coming for them.

 

Anyone else wondering if Jim and Riddler have the same kind of compulsion, taunting their adversaries. At least the Riddler does his in obtuse fasion. Jim just goes I'm coming for you Penguin/Major/Commisioner. Way to get them off their guard moron. *sigh* Jim has become more and more unlikeable lately. IMHO

[John Potts]

Have to agree with Wayne67 that Gordon's record in the GCPD must be crazy - in the 1 1/2 years(?) he's been on the force he's been reassigned to Arkham, elected President of the Union, reassigned to uniform and then promoted back to being (effectively) second in command. Of course, given the way the cops drop like flies, it might well turn out that the reason he becomes Commissioner is he's the only one still alive - it's not as if he's showing any particular brilliance at either being a shining light of uncorruptible purity or even (more plausibly) learning which battles to fight to get ahead while keeping mostly clean himself (as in the Dark Knight Trilogy).

 

Also rather disppointed in BabyBats - I know he's only a kid and he desperately wants to solve his parents' murder, but it shouldn't take your butler to point out that only somebody out to get something would only offer the "evidence" on their murderer in exchange for something. In fact, why he didn't simply say it was somebody in Wayne Enterprises (I'm sure he could throw sufficient dirt on one of its Directors - since he intends to kill Bruce it doesn't need to hold up long term) and that's WHY he wants to buy Bruce's shares (I would make SUCH a good Supervillain)!

 

Lantern7 Why do I feel that every page in the file meant for Bruce was of Theo mooning the camera?

 

 

It did seem odd that Bruce was SO upset at the file going into the fire - he's a villain! It's a pack of lies!

 

 

Biggie B Also - why was Mayor James still alive? Why were they holding him as a prisoner? Were they going to blackmail his family for his return or something?

 

 

1) Villains are incapable of just killing a named character (unlike nameless goons)
2) He may have (blackmailable) info on other people in government

 

 

driedfruit I expect Barbara is gonna end up at the same place as Firefly

What, the Outer Territories?

[Chas411]

So Riddlers just gone out and out crazy now... I thought it would be a slower transformation.