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S02.E08: Rise Of The Villains: Tonight's The Night

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Galavan sends Barbara after Jim Gordon, while he tries to make a business deal with Bruce Wayne. Barnes and Bullock are hot on Barbara's trail, and Nygma has a run-in with a familiar face.

 

 

 

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Ugh, if they won't get rid of Barbara can't they at least have Jim rip into her for the fact that SHE was the one that left him instead of her playing the victim?! These writers...

But at least Galavan got busted. And punched in the face. That was cool.

Nygma is full-blown evil now. So stoked that him and Penguin met up.

Edited by Spartan Girl
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I was all ready to say bye bye to stabby Babs, but of course she lived. They probably didn't want another female to bite the dust after Mama Cobblepot, Kringle and Essen sometime before that.

At least she should be out of commission for a while. The Galavans aren't going to be happy with her.

harvey's a smart cookie, and he looks good in those glasses. :)

Next week looks good!

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That was fun....but then I love crazy Barbara and love the way Erin Richards plays her.  I am glad that the show didn't kill her off because I really think the show did the entire character of Barbara Keen a disservice and would love to see a story arc that didn't revolve on a love triangle between her, Lee and Jim.  Although I did like that finale scenes in the church between the three of them.

 

I also enjoyed the Nygma stuff.  What was the line?  "For a secluded forest, this place sure has a lot of foot traffic.."  Plus Nygma and Penguin is a match made in Gotham.

 

Didn't care much for the bruce Wayne stuff except for the scene he had with Alfred.  Honestly I would watch a show with Bruce giving away all his money and the two of them living in a hut somewhere with Alfred explaining concepts to Bruce like "Job" and "School".  

Edited by Chaos Theory
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Well, the show is improving. Granted, Jim should have waited for Barbara to choke on scenery, but I thought it was a good episode.

 

Why do I feel that every page in the file meant for Bruce was of Theo mooning the camera? Of course Bruce changes his mind at the last minute, because we can't have a Batman compromised as a child. And of course Theo throws the file into the fire, because he's evil like that. I don't think he had any information on who killed the Waynes, but he wants Bruce to think he has.

 

I'm a little confused because I put last week's episode out of my head . . . why is Oswald disheveled? Nice that he and Ed have another chance meeting. Maybe they can try and out-lunatic each other next week.

 

ETA: Thanks, MrsRafaelBarba. And does anybody else expect the Strike Force members to start wearing red shirts?

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I'm so over Barbara. She needs to die already. It's boring now with her. How many times can she capture Lee and threaten her? Enough already. And how many chances did Jim have to shoot her in the leg or similar - not enough to kill her but to incapacitate her. Which is ultimately what has now happened - they have her - they'll probably ship her off to Indian Hills where she can share a hospital room with Firefly Brigit. 

 

Is that the last we see of Theo? Also - why was Mayor James still alive? Why were they holding him as a prisoner? Were they going to blackmail his family for his return or something? It just seemed pointless to keep him stashed away if there wasn't reason for it (at least, none that we were privy to).

 

I love that Nygma and Penguin have crossed paths. That totally works for me! 

 

I wonder when Miss Kringle's absence will be noticed and if we the viewers will see any of the other characters wondering where she is. Or if Nygma will write yet another goodbye letter as he did for the nasty cop he killed. 

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I think this is the second time Ron Rifkin has been on the "Previously on..." (to quote Homer Simpson), but then not in the episode. Or did I miss him?

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Jim Gordon is careless, Bruce Wayne almost does the completely wrong thing(btw, him and Alfred owe Selena an apology), and finally Penguin and Riddler get a team up. %uD83D%uDE0A

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So Babs is basically Gordon's joker: she wants to kill him, but can't live without him, she haunts him and does horrible things, but he can't kill her because he feels guilt in aiding in her creation and/or doesn't want to give it and kill her to prove her right and be a victory for her in breaking him. He's sick of her ish, but does see her as damaged and needing help and is locked in a game of her tweaking him and he rising to the bait even while knowing better. He may capture her, but he'll never truly defeat her. They're locked in an unhealthy dance which Lee now sees loud and clear.

Babs is totally demented enough to violate Jim so as to be able to impregnate herself with future baby Batgirl and ensure a permanent biological connection to him and mess with his head. They may pull a 'Jim hits an absolute low and loses himself and nails Babs one dark demented night when Lee is out of town.' Heck, Babs could dress as Lee, drug Jim, and he thinks he's with Lee when she does the crime. Would the show go there? Not sure.

I'm shocked Babs spilling about the Mayor wasn't her just sending him into another trap. I was sure Bullock would die getting caught in the crossfire.

Usually, I'm all for self-righteous flying fists of fury Jim, but this episode he really was just dumb. He's been outplayed by Babs before; last time she dropped by Essen died. They should've immediately locked her in Arkham and left her alone. Jim not playing the game would've eventually caused her to crack and give them something.

Bruce's story was only good when he finally just sobbed was it wrong that he just wanted it to be over. That was heartbreaking because it circled back that he's still living in that immediate moment of trauma of witnessing that vicious murder and has. It moved past that day. There's a desire to let go and move on. The sad thing is we know he never will in many ways.

I love Ed, but not sure about this bumbling murderer that he's started out to be. He's using violence over brains which we know he has. But his crossing paths with Penguin is a welcome twist in his story. Looking forward to that new turn.

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ETA: Thanks, MrsRafaelBarba. And does anybody else expect the Strike Force members to start wearing red shirts?

 

Yeah, they're not even trying anymore with these guys. At least they (half-heartedly) attempted to give some kind of character to the original four (and aren't there still two left?) but quickly gave up. Now they seem to not even be attempting to pay any kind of lip service to making the audience give a crap about the Strike Force and its increasingly dwindling numbers. Why bother, when you'll just drum up some more extras next week?

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Gordon's an idiot, how does he become Commissioner? He's a bull that just keeps charging without thinking anything through. 

 

Bruce is also an idiot, but I can forgive that because's he 12. I can't believe the thought that Galavant magically at the exact answer he was looking for and didn't question it at all. Learn from this baby Batman. Hopefully sooner rather than later because it looks your version of Gordon is a bully that gets easily manipulated by the bad guys. 

 

At first I thought crazy Barbara was fun, then she didn't do anything for 5 episodes, now she comes in full force and does the same thing she did last time. DC shows really do a terrible job with their female characters. 

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Bruce is also an idiot, but I can forgive that because's he 12. I can't believe the thought that Galavant magically at the exact answer he was looking for and didn't question it at all. 

 

I was just glad- and honestly surprised- that Alfred mentioned that it was extortion, because that's the first thing that popped into my head, and shows like this usually try to hide the fact that they've written a scenario wherein the "helpful ally"/nefarious villain is actually not doing anything in the interests of the naive hero because otherwise they'd have to actually have characters respond like real people rather than just fall right into the plotlines they're trying to push through, and would prefer that the audience doesn't see the strings as well.

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If I was to base the entire Batman franchise on this episode alone, I would be questioning how it even existed, because Jim and Bruce were just being so moronic, that I wonder how they ever ended up becoming the commissioner and the world's greatest detective.  I can at least give Bruce a small excuse for being young and he at least changed his mind before it was too late, but that fact he still considered even though Alfred basically spelled it out to him that Theo was extorting him, is very troubling.  Kid needs to grow up fast.

 

Jim though, is just an idiot and Leslie probably deserves better.  While I don't think he "loves" Barbara anymore, I do think he has some kind of weird obsession of wanting to see the good in her and "fix" her.  Give it up, Jim.  She's nutso.  She is long gone, assuming she ever was normal, because I'm suspecting she always had a screw loose, and Jim was too daft to see it.  And the fact she managed to miraculously survive means she's probably here for the long haul.  I doubt she'll stay bed-ridden or captured for long either.  And I really won't be surprised if she does end up being the future mother of Batgirl, by doing something creepy to either sleep with him or steal his sperm.

 

Glad we at least got a few Bullock and Barnes scenes, so I could watch Donal Logue and Michael Chiklis play off one another like the pros that they are. 

 

Since Richard Kind's mayor is still alive, I wonder how Theo is going to get out of this one.  I guess since Tabitha seemed to escape, even if he's found guilty, she'll bust him out.  It's clear Gotham doesn't have the ability to keep any of their prisoners locked up for good, so it should be an easy task for her.

 

I saw it coming, but I still loved Nygma and Oswald coming together at the end.  Their brief scene last season was awesome, and I hope we get plenty more of it next week!

 

Seriously, Leslie: maybe you should give Alfred a shot.  If Jim doesn't get you killed, he'll totally abandon you next time he thinks he can "save" Barbara.

Edited by thuganomics85
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Bruce is a minor, so how on earth would he be able to sign a legal document, handing over his company? Is Alfred supposed to be his employee or his legal guardian?  If he is supposed to be Bruce's guardian, then shouldn't he forbid Bruce from selling his company since that wouldn't be in Bruce's best interest?

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Oh man, I hope Jim doesn't have a Dark Night of the Soul and knock up Barbara.

Like Angel did in S2 with Darla.

I'm more afraid that she's going to drug him or steal his sperm. Please, show, do NOT make Batgirl a rape baby!

Then again, since the actress that plays Leslie is pregnant in real life, maybe they'll write her pregnancy into the show and she'll be Batgirl's mom. *fingers crossed*

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I went in dreading this episode cause of the psycho ex nonsense is tired, but it started out good. The soundtrack and those early angles on Barbara upped the creepy factor. For a second there I was scared for Gordon. Did not expect the truck. Gordon must know he has plot armor. Must be his superpower. Or he's too stupid to live.

 

I expect Barbara is gonna end up at the same place as Firefly (and possibly baby Joker and Fish...) Hope they let her keep her psycho chic going. Even the handcuffs looked like jewellery on her.  

 

Nygma's plot was my favorite, like last episode. Loved his getup, and the goofs were hilarious. The carry over of the extra creepy soundtrack from Barbara's plot was a nice touch. I knew there was a scene with Penguin coming, but awesome nevertheless. I need this bromance to happen. 

 

Baby Bruce had nice scenes too, stupidity aside. But he's like 14? He trusted his gut in the end and it payed off. I was surprised he didn't stick his hand in the fire to get the evidence.

 

So Babs is basically Gordon's joker: she wants to kill him, but can't live without him, she haunts him and does horrible things, but he can't kill her because he feels guilt in aiding in her creation and/or doesn't want to give it and kill her to prove her right and be a victory for her in breaking him. He's sick of her ish, but does see her as damaged and needing help and is locked in a game of her tweaking him and he rising to the bait even while knowing better. He may capture her, but he'll never truly defeat her. They're locked in an unhealthy dance which Lee now sees loud and clear.

 

 

I wasn't a huge fan, but this makes sense. It's gonna get really boring though if she only ever targets Lee instead of branching out her crazy. 

Edited by driedfruit
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Babs really went nuts here. The wedding from hell, the fall and she still managed to survive. I'm not actually what else can be done with the character.

 

Gordon has been an idiot for a while but he really outdid himself in this episode. Practically everyone was calling him out on his stupidity and he still acted like an idiot.

 

Leslie deserves better writing. That is all.

 

At least Theo got arrested in this episode. His story should be drawing to an end then.

 

I hate that Nygma has been made into a serial killer but I do love the potential alliance with him and Oswald though.

 

Bruce came close to messing up big time as well, 7/10

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If anyone deserves better writing its Barbara. There are so many ways her character can go especially since Jim really can't think clearly when it comes to her but the show can't or just won't write for her. Instead they just went for the crazy ex-girlfriend. I would love to have seen a story with Barbara claw her way from debutant to genuine underworld threat before meeting a gruesome end...but again the show can't or won't write for her.

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I can't help but think that Lee admitting that Gordon "killed a man for Penguin" in front of a bunch of witnesses (and whatever recording devices the Galavans might have set up) is going to cause major problems for her and Gordon at some point.

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I'm still trying to figure out how this show pumps out a Barbara Gordon Jr. eventually. It's not just her going nuts, it's that it also requires a lot of other hoops to be jumped through, like the kid even having (and keeping) that name while eventually being raised by Jim.  I mean if it's some quickie with his psycho ex, or stolen sperm, or some kind of drugged violation, or whatever, and he still wound up with the kid eventually... well Crazy Babs Sr. must have been able to get a birth certificate on her own before that to name the kid after herself (as an egomaniac might do). 

 

I still wonder if the "Babs Jr. as Jim's niece" idea wouldn't have been the proper direction, if Jim only has a brother like he did in the comics. Even as Jim's ex, having Crazy Barbara seduce his brother would have worked... although her being an escapee from Prison complicates things even more.

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Batgirl also has a criminally insane brother, Jim, Jr.

Not in all versions though. He's been folded in and out of existence just as much as Babs' parentage has been fiddled with.

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I felt like Jim could have reached Barbara at a couple points if he'd just stop being a dick for two minutes. He does have a dark side, he did go after a psychopath when everyone told him not to, and that's what got Barbara's family killed and drove her to this point. "This is all my fault, I'm sorry" might have gone a long way, but the way Jim's character has been developed he's so goddamned self righteous he's incapable of saying that. So, I may be the only one, but I'm on Team Barbara. Yeah, maybe she should let it go, but he really is an a-hole and a hypocrite.

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  I totally disagree. Barbara's crimes are on Barbara, especially in this episode. She's been coo-coo for cocoa puffs for years and Jim's just a convenient excuse for her to go off the rails. Jim's made plenty of mistakes in his life, but Barbara has not only broken laws, she gets off on it. Jim may visit his dark side once in a while, but Barbara wallows in it. If Jim owes any woman an apology, it's Leslie, not Barbara.

 

  At least Jim & Bullock managed to bust Galavan, to their credit. Like Barbara, Galavan brought his fate on himself. If Galavan had offered Bruce that file with no strings attached, then Bruce might have given him Wayne Enterprises.

Edited by DollEyes

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Did they just retconn the entire Jim-Barbara engagement/break up? Because last season, I didn't get the impression that Jim and Dumbara were close enough to a wedding that she already bought a dress and booked the church before she ran off with Montoya because she couldn't handle Jim not involving her with his police work.

 

Also, I think Theo was bluffing about the information he had about the Wayne's killer.

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I liked that Bruce decided not to sign over (in the realm of the show where a minor can do such a thing) his Wayne Enterprises voting rights of his own accord, prior to Jim showing up. Let's give Bruce some credit along the way.

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The thirteen year old can't sign any legal documents that would be binding anywhere in the world.  Bruce actually has a legal guardian, Alfred. I'm sure a major undertaking selling a billions dollar corporation would require legal hearings and a court ordered guardian to protect Bruce. Galavan would've been laughed out of board meeting at Wayne Enterprises. I know this is a comic book series, but come on.

 

Also, die Barbara.

Edited by Sparger Springs
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Milz, no they hadn't gotten that far--that was the whole point of Bullock's realization: Barbara saying she'd booked a church tipped him off to their location precisely because he knew when they were engaged they hadn't done that yet.

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I'm fan wanking that Alfred knew very well that Bruce couldnt sell his shares without Alfred's permission but he was instead letting Bruce come to the right decision b on his own. Which is a very Alf thing to do. I assume that if Bruce didn't make the right choice Alfred would have stepped in to tell Theo to buzz off.

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Given how chummy Bruce is supposed to be with Gordon, he should have tried to contact him and tell him that Galavan claims to have detailed evidence of who killed the Waynes. 

 

Gordon would either be able to 1) get the info free of charge 2) find out that there was no info to be gotten and have Galavan charged with fraud or 3) arrest Galavan for obstruction of justice and extortion.

 

I know Gordon was tied up with Barbara, and that was at least part of the point of Galavan deploying her.

 

But even without him available, one would think that they would simply record Galavan making his offer to Bruce, and counter-extort him. I don't think the people of Gotham, as desperate and deluded as they might be, would take kindly to someone withholding information about the murder of the city's power couple to leverage a business deal. 

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Bruce is a minor, so how on earth would he be able to sign a legal document, handing over his company? Is Alfred supposed to be his employee or his legal guardian?  If he is supposed to be Bruce's guardian, then shouldn't he forbid Bruce from selling his company since that wouldn't be in Bruce's best interest?

 

I can suspend reality only so much.......But if Bruce signed it, it wouldn't be legally binding. And Theodumb-dore didn't figure out when he plotted this nefarious scheme. And Alfred didn't figure it out. Which tells me that they all have to start watching The People's Court and Judge Judy because "minors can't enter into contracts" is, like, Small Claims Court 101.

 

Milz, no they hadn't gotten that far--that was the whole point of Bullock's realization: Barbara saying she'd booked a church tipped him off to their location precisely because he knew when they were engaged they hadn't done that yet.

 

I thought Bullock figured out Jim was held hostage in a church because Dumbara mentioned that she booked a church.

 

Also......wasn't Lee at Police HQ, like inside  the HQ? So how were the evil henchmen able to kidnap her and transport her to the church? Oh yeah....I forgot.....this is Gotham.

Edited by Milz
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My favorite part of Gotham is always Bruce and Alfred, but I'm starting to believe that this version of Bruce Wayne turning into Batman (or, BATMAN) is about as realistic as Hayden Christensen's Anakin Skywalker becoming Darth Vader (or, DARTH VADER, if you prefer).

 

Bruce could sign over his billion $ company to people all day long and it wouldn't matter.  He's a child.  it's not legally binding.  

 

When Barbara had Jim tied up, and talking about "the real Jim Gordon", I was hoping she'd really go off on him with specific personality defects, and have Lee sitting there next to him, sadly nodding in agreement.

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I could see Bruce being year one Batman in about twelve or thirteen years, he's already doing some training and such. I think it was a mistake to have him go back to school instead of studying his own curriculum, but plot dictates it.

Hopefully we'll see more training soon.

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I totally disagree. Barbara's crimes are on Barbara, especially in this episode. She's been coo-coo for cocoa puffs for years and Jim's just a convenient excuse for her to go off the rails. Jim's made plenty of mistakes in his life, but Barbara has not only broken laws, she gets off on it. Jim may visit his dark side once in a while, but Barbara wallows in it. If Jim owes any woman an apology, it's Leslie, not Barbara.

 

Totally. And I still don't get why Montoya gets a pass on her 'crimes' against Barbara when if Gordon's withholding secrets and then exposing Babs to his mob dealings is to have contributed to her breaking, then Montoya's passive aggressive chipping away of the foundation of Barbara/Jim, targeting Jim professionally for her personal gain and undermining him with Barbara, and then once getting Babs, and then dumping her because she wouldn't be pulled back into drugs and just couldn't deal with Babs' crazy should also be reason enough for Babs to have targeted her as well.

 

The thing is Jim waited for Barbara and tried to reach out; she didn't answer. Montoya apparently walked away without looking back so....why is it all about Jim? They could've had a great arc of Babs alternately stalking and playing both Montoya and Gordon.

 

Since they're having fun playing with the Batverse history on Gotham, a Lee/Alfred romance would've been a cute awesome twist. Since canonically she is a mother figure to Bruce, it would've made sense for her to bond with both of them. Also they kind of missed the opportunity to have her have been a classmate of Bruce's father and be an emotional link to him for Bruce (and possibly know some of Thomas' deep dark secrets).

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Since they're having fun playing with the Batverse history on Gotham, a Lee/Alfred romance would've been a cute awesome twist.

Would it really have been a twist when it actually happened in the comics?

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Would it really have been a twist when it actually happened in the comics?

 

Ha! I missed that arc in the comics! Well, then not so much a twist as Alfred/Lee getting their due in live action? 

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THIS would have been an excellent episode to bring Montoya back for! Why have a bisexual character obsessed with heterosexual monogamy when marriage equality became the law of the land during her unbalancing? Now she can force both of her past loves to marry her!

  I loved how snarky Leslie was this episode! She plays well off of stoic Jim. It's too bad  the "we have to talk" words of doom have been uttered.

   I KNOW he's just a kid, but I cannot in any way see this Bruce ever becoming Batman. Even Adam West Batman.

   Penguin/Riddler team-up should be fun!

 

At least she should be out of commission for a while.

I see what you did there.

Edited by NorthstarATL

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Then again, since the actress that plays Leslie is pregnant in real life, maybe they'll write her pregnancy into the show and she'll be Batgirl's mom

 

I'm about 50% sure this will happen.  If it does, then I expect Barbara to kidnap her and avoid capture long enough so that Babs Jr's name can't be changed.  Otherwise, it wouldn't make any sense for Jim and Lee to name their daughter after any of their exes, much less a psychotic one like Barbara. 

 

But who knows, maybe there won't be any hint of Babs in the Gothamverse.

 

I did enjoy Bullock figuring out where Barbara took Jim. 

 

I'm most excited about Penguin and Nygma working together.  They can teach each other a whole lot and the inevitable bickering should be gold.

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So Theo Galavan killed the Wayne parents. The show couldn't telegraph it any more. Unless by making it obvious the show will "trick" us and pull someone else out of thin air out a mistaken belief that they're "clever".

 

Even then, it has to be a Galavan loon, if not the man himself, and since the Galavan-Wayne rivalry is personal, there's really no one other than Theo. I can't see anyone else who has the motive to kill the Waynes, especially because it seemed like part of Galavan's plan to extort the company away from the Waynes.

 

Enough of that business...I'm sure I'll roll my eyes all the same when we get there. We got more important business to take care of.

 

Like this episode. Which rocked. A lot.

 

Started off slow...Jim's got some good ideas for conducting an interrogation but he sure does have a long way to go. I'm not sure what he expected by going along with Barbara's "plan"...even Bullock and Barnes knew going for a ride would be a bad idea. I also wonder how obsessed with justice is Jim to risk lives and cut corners that he'd delay Barbara's treatment just so he could "get to Galavan".

 

Seriously, buddy, Barnes is right...you do the police work. You get something hard (as in "evidence", Jim, not the other kind of "hard")That takes time...and patience. Something Jim had a distinct lack of tonight, uncharacteristically so (although, perhaps, not unexplainable). If I was Barnes, I'd fire Gordon on the spot- he was way too reckless, and he nearly got a lot of officers killed. In fact, he nearly got himself killed.

 

I mean, what was he thinking? If we can call it that.

 

He must be glad he has plot armour, because it was on full display tonight. This has more to do with the Church shootout and the car crash than Barbara's babbling, since I'd expect Barbara to taunt Jim before she offs him. The crash? That's quite the impact, no guarantee he comes out of that one alive. Same with the Church shootout...Tabitha usually can hit a fly from 100 yards away but conveniently misses Jim (who hides behind a dead person who takes a hit, which is still bad because bullets can pass through a body), who, in turn, hits Tabitha on the shoulder.

 

Jim was lucky tonight. Very lucky. I guess I shouldn't be surprised...I'd nearly forgotten "reckless Jim" from Season 1...guess he didn't learn from it.

 

After the crash though...wow. Fireworks galore. It was non-stop tension all the way through...so A+ for that. Took a while to get to the build-up but darn...that's how you close it out. There was urgency and actual race against the clock, with Barbara enjoying every minute of torturing Jim and Bullock doing his darnedest to figure out Gordon's location (and prove his worth to Barnes, which he needed to do after defying a direct order)...it was scintillating stuff, all of it.

 

Speaking of Bullock...nice to see him have something to do and get into those staredowns with Barnes. Good to see that he's not a lapdog. I was mad that Bullock followed along with Jim and drove straight into the ambush...I always thought Bullock would be smarter than that. Then again, it still made sense since Bullock told Jim he's with him "sink or swim" and something tells me he doesn't trust Barnes all that much. I hope it leads to the point where Bullock takes down Barnes  or Barnes uses it as a way to "learn how things are in Gotham" or something because I'd hate to see the brilliant interplay between Bullock and Barnes go to waste.

 

Barbara...probably should have known she'd survive that fall. Unrealistic, and I really think she should have been killed. I hate to kill of the women on this show because they do so little, but if there was a character who I think their chapter has closed, it's Barbara. How many more times can we watch "psycho ex wants to get back with her boyfriend" before it gets too old? Besides, seeing her in the wedding dress and seeing Jim wrestle her out of the attic window just seemed to scream "perfect cap to the story" because of all that symbolism. I really don't know where the show goes from here.

 

As for Bruce...I was disappointed that he was played for so long but I could understand that, as a 15-year-old boy, he wouldn't be fully aware of it. I was happy that he didn't sign away the company, because it seemed like he did finally learn that Galavan was playing him. It took him a long time but at least he got there.

 

Oh, and Theo getting arrested for Mayor James? Priceless. Waited too long for Galavan to get his comeuppance...how sweet it was. I hope the show won't waste it.

 

Overall...it started poorly but it ended as a great ride. One of the best episodes this season, if not overall.

 

...okay, okay...there was a sidebar story with Edward Nygma...but aside from the obvious attempts at comic relief ("for a supposedly secluded forest this seems to be well-populated") it had no real meaning for me. Great to see Penguin at the end, even if he did have only one line.

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It's possible that Babs is already born and is a one year old infant living in Chicago with Thelma and Roger Gordon having already been named on Barbara's behalf. Bruce is already 13-14, Babs is supposed to be older than Dick Grayson. That's one way to do it. They could always just eliminate James Jr anyways. I mean his mom went crazy instead.

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