S09.E07: The Zygon Invasion

[tankgirl73]

when Osgood was killed by Missy, why didn't the Doctor let Clara know her double was still alive at the time?

He assumed she knew?

Then, later, the Doctor asks Osgood which one she is? That seemed odd.

I dunno, I think people do that sort of thing all the time. Person A asks about something, and person B goes on at length about why it doesn't matter. Person B then says, when person A isn't around, "but seriously, what is it..."

Also, correct me if I'm wrong, but when Clara asks, aren't they in a larger group? He had to keep the secret safe. When he asks her himself, it's in private. "I know you need to keep this secret, but hey, this is me we're talking about here..."

[StrictTime]

 

 

Once again . . . I DVRed the episode, and I don't think it's right for next week's episode to be teased on a BBC America show I don't care about. And I was too busy watching the Mets try (and fail) to even the Series. Is the trailer up anywhere?

Lantern7, I know you're cranky, but you really should give The Last Kingdom a look. It's an excellent series :D

As others stated, I think it would have been awesome to have Clara be a Zygon this whole season. And maybe even last season. It would explain a lot of my irrational dislike for her character.

Enough with the guitar playing. Ugh.

[Pattycake2]

Well, I didn't care for this episode at all.  First off, I love Osgood.  I don't think Moffett had a clue that she was actually so popular until he killed her off.  Now, he's giving interviews on how fans are cosplaying a cosplay.  He's so pleased with himself for bringing her back for the fans.  I find his remarks both patronizing and condescending.  The Doctor was always offering to relocate truly horrible species to their own planet.  "Take my hand!  I can save you!"  just before the species refused and was blown up or otherwise destroyed.  There is no way that I believe The Doctor would relocate 20 aliens on earth.  BTW, are there really millions of copies running around the UK or did they just suck up everyone else's lives?  

 

I'm also not digging the re-emergence of UNIT.  I liked the initial retroness of is, but we've had three doctors who could save the earth without their help, thank you very much.  I think it diminishes The Doctor. 

[darkestboy]

Loved this episode. A brilliant start and hopefully the second half will give a satisfying ending to.

 

The ambiguity of which Osgood it truly is was well played and there's genuinely great chemistry between Peter and Ingrid that I really do think the latter could be a companion next series.

 

Clara being replaced by Bonnie the evil Zygon was obvious but effective and slightly similar to Martha and her clone from the fourth series as well.

 

Poor Jac had to die and I suspect that Walsh won't be far behind too. Kate will survive and I assume/hope Osgood too, right?

 

I liked how the Zygons were used in this episode, the political backdrop and the international feel as well, 9/10

[Tara Ariano]

In case you missed it, here's the Previously.TV post on the episode!

 

Osgood? Osgreat!
The Doctor's greatest in-universe fangirl returns from the dead to insult continuity, and we couldn't be happier.

[ottoDbusdriver]

Enough with the guitar playing. Ugh.

 

Agreed.

[proserpina65]

My only real thought is that I really hope Kate Lethbridge-Stewart is not dead.  And that Clara is.

[proserpina65]

Doc says to Stewart on the phone: "Are you phoning me with your backside again?"  Stewart has butt-dialed the Doctor. OMG.

 

I completely missed that.  That is absolutely hysterical!

 

[RedHackle]

Well, from the comments here I guess now next week when they rerun this ep prior to the new one, I'll have to watch it.  I started this ep, saw that it was written by the same jackalope that wrote "Kill the Moon" and completely checked out.  I got halfway through this episode - or at least to the part where Kate is walking through the NM town alone with gun drawn, and turned it off.  Perhaps I need to give the episode another look - I was so fully prepared for the stupid that perhaps I saw it prematurely. 

[Rhetorica]

I rewatched it. I was on meds the first time and it was hard to follow. The 21 million were not just living in the UK. They were spread across the planet, so I guess they were not as readily recognized. Weren't they were placed in confined areas?

[MeloraH]

On a side note, It was fun seeing Rebecca Front and Peter Capaldi together again (they costarred in The Thick of It), though it was too bad they had to be so serious the whole time--just one witty or snarky exchange between these two would have been lovely.

 

I wonder if they ruined any scenes by calling each other Nicola or Malcolm respectively. I also really liked that in DW she got to be the bad-ass and he was the more nurturing one.

[Llywela]

The episode made a big deal out of how no one could tell whether the surviving Osgood (does she not have any other name?) was the real one or a Zygon copy, but I felt sure she was the copy, just because...her personality felt off. She didn't talk or behave like the Osgood we met before. Now, you could argue that her experience of living as 'the embodiment of the peace' has changed her...but last time we met her, she was presumably already in the middle of that, yet she seemed her normal self as previously portrayed. So if she is the human, I will feel cheated - and vindicated in my belief that the current show is incapable of writing consistent characterisation, preferring instead to use its characters as blank slates on which to project whatever personality template best serves the requirement of the latest plot.

 

But then again, there was that headstone, just reading 'my sister'. Leaving aside the quibble of it being a really big stone for someone who doesn't have a body to bury, if it was the real Osgood who died, she was a lot more than just the surrogate sister of a Zygon duplicate - she had a family and friends outside of her role in the peace treaty, who would also want to mourn for her. The stone makes more sense if it's something the real Osgood put up for the duplicate she'd grown weirdly fond of.

 

But the personality is wrong for the real Osgood...

 

So I'm going in circles here.  And am increasingly annoyed with the episode, for all kinds of reasons.

Edited November 6, 2015 by Llywela

[Omega Reviews]

Hey Guys

If you want to hear some thoughts and opinions on the Zygon Invasion as well as other episodes such as the Woman who Lived and Before the Flood check out this podcast.   

 

[benteen]

The episode made a big deal out of how no one could tell whether the surviving Osgood (does she not have any other name?) was the real one or a Zygon copy, but I felt sure she was the copy, just because...her personality felt off. She didn't talk or behave like the Osgood we met before. Now, you could argue that her experience of living as 'the embodiment of the peace' has changed her...but last time we met her, she was presumably already in the middle of that, yet she seemed her normal self as previously portrayed. So if she is the human, I will feel cheated - and vindicated in my belief that the current show is incapable of writing consistent characterisation, preferring instead to use its characters as blank slates on which to project whatever personality template best serves the requirement of the latest plot.

 

But then again, there was that headstone, just reading 'my sister'. Leaving aside the quibble of it being a really big stone for someone who doesn't have a body to bury, if it was the real Osgood who died, she was a lot more than just the surrogate sister of a Zygon duplicate - she had a family and friends outside of her role in the peace treaty, who would also want to mourn for her. The stone makes more sense if it's something the real Osgood put up for the duplicate she'd grown weirdly fond of.

 

But the personality is wrong for the real Osgood...

 

So I'm going in circles here.  And am increasingly annoyed with the episode, for all kinds of reasons.

 

It would be wrong for the real Osgood to do that to her family though Moffat's characters do those kinds of illogical things.  If he still even remembers he gave her a family.

[Llywela]

It would be wrong for the real Osgood to do that to her family though Moffat's characters do those kinds of illogical things.  If he still even remembers he gave her a family.

Well, if this is the real Osgood, the headstone doesn't have a name on it, so the family don't have to know...but then again, if she and Zygon were living openly as sisters, the family have to know - how did they explain that?

 

I'm gonna go with your theory: we're not supposed to remember the family. This story is stupid.

[Hyacinth B]

I can't make sense of the whole premise.

20 million Zygons? Most of whom immigrate to the UK -- a nation of only 60 million? Why the UK? And they take the form of the nearest person? That means that a third of the population of the U.K. now have their exact duplicate running around -- and nobody notices!

And how many civil servants and government officials have to be in on this conspiracy? Are Zygons issued with IDs? Credit cards? Jobs? How does this sudden influx affect the economy? Does no one notice the effect on the schools, who overnight must provide space for a one third increase in student population? (And are there actual Zygon children, and do they sometimes pose as adults, as apparently adults sometimes pose as children?)

I like Dr Who, always have, but the writing frequently falls into this "the moon is really an egg" nonsense . I mean, the writing should think through the implications of its fantastical premises -- the story will be all the stonger, more involving, for it.

 

Well, at least that explains where most of those votes against Scottish independence came from. 

[marketdoctor]

I liked the multiple meanings of "Truth or Consequences", as only Dr. Who could pull off an almost-crossover with a game show that hasn't been on the iar since many fans were born.

 

Is The Doctor refering to himself as "Dr. Disco", "Dr. Frankenstien", etc. a clue or is it just a running joke?  I think the latter, but you never know.

[elle]

Catching the repeat before the new episode.  Okay, I've seen the palm trees in NM and the tricolor patch on the sheriff's uniform.  While I was waiting to get a good look at it, I noticed something else odd.  Does she have balloon pins on her collar, like Balloon Fiesta pins?  They don't seem to be the right shape for rank insignia.

[cardigirl]

I am rewatching part 1 as well, and wouldn't the zygon copies have the same memories as their counterparts? That's what I didn't understand in the scene where the soldiers refused to shoot because the zygons looked like their family members. The commander told her men to ask them something only their real mother would know. Wouldn't the zygon be able to access that info too?

[elle]

I am rewatching part 1 as well, and wouldn't the zygon copies have the same memories as their counterparts? That's what I didn't understand in the scene where the soldiers refused to shoot because the zygons looked like their family members. The commander told her men to ask them something only their real mother would know. Wouldn't the zygon be able to access that info too?

Right, because the person asking would have that information too not just the image of his mother.  Why he didn't click when she didn't say what his birth date was (or I missed that), is just bad writing.  

 

I agree with the comment above that a family member might forgive you for shooting them, say, in the foot, but they would hold it over you for the rest of your lives!

[AudienceofOne]

This is the guy that wrote Kill The Moon? That episode was TERRIBLE. This was way better than that and I enjoyed it. Having said that, the probability of them killing either the Doctor or Kate Stewart is 0 so why do they keep putting in these stupid cliffhangers? Is the main character dead and the show therefore cancelled? (Um, no). Is Kate Stewart replaced by a Zygon? (the fans would burn the studio down). Zero tension.

[polyhymnia]

I have tried to watch this episode 4 or 5 times.  I kept falling asleep.  I think part of it is that they've killed/not killed Clara so many times that I don't care and I don't believe it.  I think I will try to watch this one and the following episode back to back.  Or maybe just skip them both.

[Lebanna]

New Mexico really doesn't look much like Lanzarote. Or vice versa.

I mean, I know that on Who, Lanzarote is everywhere in the universe which is a bit deserty, but this time it was blatant. Forget the palm tree, I also loved the giant extinct volcano in the back of some of the shots and the fact that they hadn't even managed to hide the Spanish signs.

Edited January 12, 2016 by Lebanna