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Spoiler Discussion Thread

Morrigan2575

By Morrigan2575
in Arrow

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MsSchadenfreude

MsSchadenfreude

(edited)

I like the set for Felicity's apartment.  Just because someone is quirky and colorful (her clothes/makeup) in one are of their life doesn't mean it carries over into everything.   Besides, I think her apartment has plenty of color.  

Edited by MsSchadenfreude
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Carrie Ann
Carrie Ann

Me for all of last summer hiatus and 5A: Me after reading the WM interview from a few weeks back about Felicity's arc giving her a more profound understanding of Oliver: Me after r

BkWurm1
BkWurm1

I tend to think that trying to make KC a place on the show had a ripple effect that did hurt the show pretty badly.  She's what turned Quentin stupid and into a creepy stalker.  So that wipes off the

calliope1975
calliope1975

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statsgirl

statsgirl

Don't get me wrong, I'm thrilled we're finally seeing Felicity's apartment.  We got to see Diggle's and Laurel's, and Tommy's yard in s1 and Quentin's house and the Clock Tower where Sara was staying in s3 so I'm very happy we get to see Felicity's now.

 

But it still feels off to me. Felicity is someone who matches her earrings to her nail polish (in State vs Queen) or her belt to her shoes (various episodes).  Nothing in that picture seems to match anything else except maybe the vase which is several shades lighter than the throw.  Everything else is a mish-mash of colors and styles (even the pages from the Ikea catalogue match more), and it seems a bit fussy with all the vases and four side tables in different styles for someone who made her Arrow lair very stylized and sleek (I'd be knocking that beige vase on the side table over within half an hour). There's no place to read comfortably except lying on the sofa but there's no light there so it would have to be a kindle or tablet.  (I know, I'm really picky.) I really like the burgundy settee and the yoga mat in front of it though.  

 

Part of me was hoping it would have character like Kate Beckett's place (pictures 2 and 3 or here)  who is supposed to be about the same age as Felicity.  Not necessarily the complexity of Beckett's place but I was hoping that her bits and pieces would tell me more about who Felicity is as a person. (Beckett again.) Does she like old movies because she has that poster?  I expected a bunch of DVDs of old movies because you can't download those easily when you want to.  (If it refers to Oliver/the Arrow, it feels like the set designer is saying "Aren't I clever?")  Does she have time to read these days?  I can see her downloading new things she hasn't read on her tablet but having a bunch of books that are old friends from pre-tablet days.  Does she ever invite friends over to watch TV or movies? Her couches are at right angles to the screen.

 

But if I'm the only one who feels that way, that's okay.  Maybe I'll think of it differently when I see it on TV.

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Chaser

Chaser

(edited)

 Counterproductive? Yep.  I agree that love ones should be a support for good and not a catalyst for bad. We saw that with Tommy. This could be another lesson, just taken another way. Oliver is still a work in progress.

 

However, I think it could be an interesting narrative. They haven't established a pattern of Oliver willing to kill to save Felicity. At this point, it was just a dramatic one off. If he does kill again to save Felicity, I could see that being a cause for both of them to step back from a romantic relationship. Neither would want that responsibility to be placed on them. I could see this coming into play in regards to Oliver's identity crisis this year: Where is that line drawn? Does there have to be line or can Oliver/Arrow be the same person? 

 

That being said I don't its as simple as Felicity gets hurt. I personally think its a combination of what happens on the date and him getting drugged. Lethal combination. 

Edited by 10Eleven12
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Chaser

Chaser

What do you mean by 'drugged delusion'? Like he has a delusion, and acts off of that? I hate that too.

 

I think the drug causes lose of willpower. In that case, I see decisions being taken out of his hand. Actions born of that; I have less of a problem with. 

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blixie

blixie

I mean that he's drugged by a villain, has a hallucination, and goes rage monkey, and then breaks up with Felicity based on a drug induced behavior.

 

With respect all drugs, cause a loss of will power, so no I'm not down with any decision born of an altered state. You are more than what you do while you're under the influence, to push someone away because you did something crazy on drugs is really goddamn dumb. And not even a drug you did ON purpose to self medicate/recreate! I don't find it telling or interesting from a character stand point at all, I'd  find it to be the most device-y of plot devices. Didn't we JUST go through this with the Mirakuru crap? No, not here for it. Deal honestly with the characters and their emotions and issues and leave "drugs" out of it.

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Chaser

Chaser

(edited)

Yep. I totally misunderstood your responses. 

 

I agree completely. I was thinking just the act he was taking itself, not what the consequences after it i.e. the break up. I don't think break up with someone because you've seen this 'alternative' you is the smartest logic. But I get it from an emotional standpoint.

Edited by 10Eleven12
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Starfish35

Starfish35

(edited)

"We used to date" as a reply to Lauriver_United? Ouch.

ETA: ok yes that's an assumption on my part that she's referring to Oliver, but....unless they suddenly invent a new ex (possible - I doubt Tommy and Oliver have been the only men ever in Laurel's life) I'm not sure who else it could be.

Edited by Starfish35
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statsgirl

statsgirl

 

Then, Amell added, “And I will tell you that, I’ve got one for you, in the premiere of Arrow, me, dressed in a suit as Oliver Queen beats up the Arrow. What? It will make sense when you see it.”

I thought he was going to decide that he could only be the Arrow and not Oliver Queen. But if Oliver Queen beats up the Arrow, wouldn't that suggest he can be Oliver and still the Arrow because Oliver is still strong enough to survive?  Or does being Oliver mean he can't be focused enough to be the Arrow? (Have I just been reading too many books on dream analysis?)

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Orion

Orion

I thought he was going to decide that he could only be the Arrow and not Oliver Queen. But if Oliver Queen beats up the Arrow, wouldn't that suggest he can be Oliver and still the Arrow because Oliver is still strong enough to survive?  Or does being Oliver mean he can't be focused enough to be the Arrow? (Have I just been reading too many books on dream analysis?)

 

I'm probably reading way to much into this but here is my take on that answer. We've seen Oliver snap and kill someone out of anger twice, once when Ivo's mercenaries hit Shado and of course the Count with Felicity. Both times he responded as Oliver. With Shado obviously it was because the Arrow didn't exist yet and with the Count he showed up dressed as the Arrow but with his hood down. It was Oliver that protected the women he cared about but Oliver doesn't have the control that the Arrow has, he's impulsive and let's his rage at the situation take over.

 

So my guess is that the hallucination is Oliver viewing the Arrow as the threat. Felicity wouldn't have been injured if she wasn't involved with the Arrow and Oliver, the man that wants the normal life, directs his rage over her towards his other personality.  He has to shut off Oliver Queen because Oliver can't help but respond as a man and he needs the emotional distant that the Arrow has. The Arrow can accept that Felicity is in danger when she is helping him because she's important to his mission and he needs her, Oliver can't accept that she's in danger. I think that's where he decides he can't be both so he chooses to be the Arrow and buries Oliver's desires for a life. The rest of the season will be him realizing that it's not that simple. But again I could just be majorly over thinking this.

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Morrigan2575

Morrigan2575

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(edited)

So Arrow is the heroic part and Oliver is the selfish part?

 

Something of a spoiler but not really

Please email me any and all info on Arrow, PLEASE. –Caroline
Sorry, my email is down. So hopefully you’re reading this, as I share that with a new season comes “new toys” for Oliver to play with. “In the season premiere, you’ll see a new kind of arrow,” showrunner Marc Guggenheim shares. “And in Episode 5, there’s another new kind of arrow we’ve never seen before. Season 3 is like a movie sequel, where he’s got new gadgets to play with!”

 

http://tvline.com/2014/09/15/castle-season-7-spoilers-kate-search-for-rick-esposito-ryan/

Edited by Morrigan2575
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Angel12d

Angel12d

 

So that obviously links into what SA said before where Oliver literally sees a version of himself he doesn't like or something. But what version doesn't he like? Because if Oliver is seeing a version of himself as The Arrow, why would he ultimately decide that he can only be the Arrow if he hates it so much? OMG I need this episode now. So many questions!

 

See a little Laurel dialogue tease: 

 

https://twitter.com/AJKreisberg/status/511521163357339648

 

Well, that's obviously about Oliver. Maybe that's the episode where Oliver and Wildcat finally meet? Interesting!

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statsgirl

statsgirl

(edited)

So Arrow is the heroic part and Oliver is the selfish part?

The Arrow is the controlled part, the part he can trust to do what needs to be done, and Oliver is the part that he can't control, the wildcard that could ruin everything the Arrow is working for.

 

That makes a lot of sense. If that's the scenario, I'm looking forward to seeing how it plays out over the season.

Edited by statsgirl
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foreverevolving

foreverevolving

(edited)

The Arrow is the controlled part, the part he can trust to do what needs to be done, and Oliver is the part that he can't control, the wildcard that could ruin everything the Arrow is working for.

 

That makes a lot of sense. If that's the scenario, I'm looking forward to seeing how it plays out over the season.

It makes perfect sense, it's the way most soldiers, especially those who had active combat, think (being a former soldier myself, though not as an active fighter, i can attest from experience). They tend to separate- to a degree - their civilian persona from their military/soldier one; as a soldier you can do things that a regular person wouldn't even dream of doing (ie killing people, among other things). in order to be able to function in everyday life you have to be able, while on duty, to separate those two personas or else one will end up taking over the other, and it may just be at the very worst time.. a soldier can have only so much compassion, a civilian cannot go on through life constantly looking at everyone as if they are the enemy.

 

While season 3 is all about Oliver understanding he can be both Oliver Queen and The Arrow; season 4, in my opinion, is going going to be a continuation of this and will be all about working on merging Ollie/Oliver with The Arrow inside one person while still being able to keep them each separated to their respective times and activities, but at the same time drawing the strengths of each persona. Once that happens we'll finally get to see Arrow progress to the next stage: Green Arrow. (and is it just me or did anyone else get a Pokemon feel from that line?)

Edited by foreverevolving
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wonderwall

wonderwall

(edited)

THAT IS TOMMY'S LINE DAMMIT. Ugh I miss Tommy.

 

ALso the "Runs in the family." line made me laugh because then I thought "so does alcoholism" 

 

Whoops.

 

ALso, who wants to bet Laurel gets into trouble and is about to get a beat down before Sara arrives? 

Edited by wonderwall
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wonderwall

wonderwall

I've said this so many times before, okay maybe not that many, but even after the finale I was so sure that the writers were going to retcon Laurel and wipe out all of her issues and flaws in order to make her likable. Now I wonder if they're going to go as far as to make her a mary-sue. But only time will tell for that I suppose. 

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writersblock51

writersblock51

Is it me or does it sound like they're desperate to reboot Laurel? Pay no attention to the last 46 episodes...we're calling a do-over...Laurel/pilot...start.

 

that's exactly what this sounds like to me.  Also, it's the first time we hear her called by "Dinah" in a loooooong time. 

 

I'm also hoping that's the 1 and only Tommy line that gets lifted and reused.

 

The whole Arrow/Oliver fight is very interesting - I'm not sure what to think about it yet but I am enjoying reading the various theories!

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Sakura12

Sakura12

(edited)

That sounds like another if they have her say it or someone one us tell us enough times, it will be true. Like she knows Oliver better than anyone ever.

 

However it sounds like another reminder of her name being Dinah Laurel Lance despite the fact that she's never gone by that name once since we met her. That probably means Sara's not long for this world. 

Edited by Sakura12
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Chaser

Chaser

I imagine that when the season starts up again Laurel is going to be super attorney, best sister ever with Sara, best daughter ever with Lance, friends with Felicity and Diggle, super happy partners with Oliver/Laurel. She has some fancy new moves (she will need to be saved by Sara because she can't be too perfect too fast though). And she is going to be happy and witty and and Mary Sue.

 

The Arrow vs Oliver Queen fight. I'm excited: Picturing the Supernatural scene with Dean beat himself up. It was powerful and Jensen Ackles killed it. 

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writersblock51

writersblock51

 

However it sounds like another reminder of her name being Dinah Laurel Lance despite the fact that she's never gone by that name once since we met her. That probably means Sara's not long for this world.

 

I thought the same thing and am not pleased.  I strongly suspect that the show is going to see how the overall reaction to Laurel, "new & irmproved Dinah Laurel Lance!" in the early part of this new season before they commit to killing Sara off or keeping her on as BC.  As much as I'd rather focus on positive about the show during the premiere, I will be hard pressed to not criticize anything I see as movement to making Laurel BC or a Mary Sue - and not just here. 

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Chaser

Chaser

That Laurel question at the con made me LOL though. I don't know want the answer was expected to be but I hear a lot of wishful thinking in it.

 

Can someone explain to me how Laurel's life is supposed to be in more danger since she knows he is the Arrow? She still is only working at the DAs office ala S1. Is she walking around with a sign?

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wonderwall

wonderwall

(edited)

That Laurel question at the con made me LOL though. I don't know want the answer was expected to be but I hear a lot of wishful thinking in it.

 

Can someone explain to me how Laurel's life is supposed to be in more danger since she knows he is the Arrow? She still is only working at the DAs office ala S1. Is she walking around with a sign?

Typical 'Dinah Laurel Lance' always has to butt in to save the world even though she's not equipped or trained enough to do so, so her sister and her ex boyfriend who cheated on her with her sister and his team who doesn't really like Laurel all that much have to save her. 

 

Other than that, I can imagine a couple of scenarios where Laurel fails at prosecuting someone (even with the help of the Arrow) and the defendant would go after her. Although this scenario could only work at least once or twice without the audience wondering whether Laurel is the just stupid or just a terrible lawyer. 

 

Whatever happened to me trying not to criticize Laurel too much? Well that failed spectacularly.

Edited by wonderwall
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Sakura12

Sakura12

(edited)

Yep, I can see season 3 being the season of Super Dinah Laurel Lance and another deathwatch for Sara. Since I can take or leave Olicity, so far they haven't done much to get me excited for this season. We got barely got a glimpse of Thea, Malcolm, Roy, Diggle, Quentin and Sara in the promos and things they are releasing. I know Olicity sells but they need to spread it out a little for us fans of other characters.

 

At this point I'm more excited for Agents of Shield than Arrow. After the beginning of AoS I never thought I'd be saying that. 

Edited by Sakura12
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catrox14

catrox14

(edited)

THAT IS TOMMY'S LINE DAMMIT. Ugh I miss Tommy.

ALso the "Runs in the family." line made me laugh because then I thought "so does alcoholism"

Whoops.

ALso, who wants to bet Laurel gets into trouble and is about to get a beat down before Sara arrives?

blech blech blech!! ugh. Come on show. laurel doesn't need her own tagline unless its RIP. sorry the snark is strong for me about Laurel.

Edited by catrox14
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Chaser

Chaser

(edited)

AOS redeemed its self in those last episodes. Destroying Shield and turning Ward evil created a great reboot. 

 

I'm excited about every plot line on Arrow but Laurel. I'm too concerned with her ruining the other characters by her 'growth' (Sara and Felicity in particular). I do wish we would hear more about the other plot lines.

 

Side note: I'm watching Criminal Minds on Netflix and Reid is from Vegas. I want Felicity and Reid to be siblings and we find out Felicity is actually the 'dumb' one in the family.

Edited by 10Eleven12
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Angel12d

Angel12d

You know, I actually want to see what they do with Laurel but it's more like a morbid curiosity in how they're going to redeem her character rather than a real genuine interest. I could take or leave Laurel to be honest but I do want to enjoy all aspects of the show and I'm well aware she's not going anywhere. I just wish they were a bit more subtle about it. No more remarks about leather jackets and saving the world please. The heavy-handedness just annoys me. It's trying too hard.

 

As for the others, I know they've promoted the crap out of Olicity but I'm still pretty excited to see what's going on with Diggle and Thea/Malcolm and especially Oliver's reaction to it. I know we don't know many details but I get the impression that we're supposed to be kept in the dark. So yeah. I don't know anything but I'm excited to find out. Not long now guys!

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blixie

blixie

Yeah that dialogue snippet does nothing to dissuade me from thinking they have not one clue how to *show* us a different Laurel, they're just gonna keep on telling us, you *will* root for Dinah Laurel Lance, and you will LIKE it! Because it's worked so well so far.

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TanyaKay

TanyaKay

Or they're desperate to do anything with Laurel that will save the character.

 

But going back to the pilot and trying to start all over again, that's funny.

 

the only thing Laurel ever saved in all the 46 episodes aired so far are the hard copies of files at CNRI. I don't think she saved anything else apart from that. Not even herself from making one bad decision after another.

 

and tying up the cool bad ass comic Dinah with this wimpy/weepy clumpy mascara wearing Laurel is stretching it to incredulity, the viewers have rejected it in the past and will do it again. Yikes!

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